Author Topic: How do you handle late life care for yourself?  (Read 4223 times)

hgjjgkj

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How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« on: November 22, 2017, 07:45:20 AM »
How do MMMs think about late life care? I see a lot of FIRE writers with Fire numbers in the six figures or a million dollars which puts you at <40k. I am trying to understand how they think about managing senior care when they are older. I feel as if this cost item is likely to inflate and if it does so you would be pretty screwed

Sibley

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 08:47:23 AM »
Honestly, I suspect a lot of people don't think about this. How many people are regularly interacting with the elderly (in a caretaking role)? There's a big difference between knowing you'll get old, and realizing what that means day to day, then having to deal with it.

My dad has dementia. My mom's health isn't great. My sister and I did their open enrollment this year. I do their taxes. I monitor finances. Sister helps with medical stuff. We're trying to figure out driving (and failing). We're trying to plan for reduced mobility. Significantly reduced cognitive ability. Assistance with house cleaning, self care, medical appointments, meals, medication management. All of it. NONE of this is something I ever thought about before I needed to.

In our case, parents will end up living with me. When that doesn't work, Medicaid will have to pay for care. No idea what I'll do when I get old.

MayDay

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2017, 09:15:53 AM »
Most people think they'll know it's coming and be able to kill themselves. Which happens approximately never. If your mind is starting to go you are usually oblivious to it. If you are physically failing you will probably be physically unable to do anything about it.

My dad very seriously wants to commit suicide as soon as he starts going down hill. I respect that choice but I've told him.he better figure it out now, well before he is incapacitated, because I'm not going to murder him, lol.  He isn't talking a little extra morphine to speed things along at the very end!

I think childless people think their siblings or friends will be able to help, which, maybe. But that's a pretty big maybe. Just coordinating paid care is a huge job. Your sibling is going to be elderly by the time you are elderly.

I think people are way to blase about it honestly. I don't expect my kids to actually care for me At All, but I do hope they'll coordinate care and check up to make sure I'm not being taken advantage of. If they were unable or unwilling, I'd probably set up a paid advocate well ahead of time.

hgjjgkj

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2017, 09:16:10 AM »
I don't see an MMM article on this but would be very interested. Do you have a sense of the all in cost for what you are currently experiencing?

Its basically 2 pieces: 1) Cost to provide for your own aging parents 2) Cost for yourself

Both are scary but one the second is dangerous because there is no room to pivot, work harder etc obviously.

Gilly

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 09:20:58 AM »
My plan is to get my stash to the 4% withdrawal rate, use social security as a safety net, and assume end of life care won't go longer than ten years. Looking at the annual price of a nursing home that's 100k a year. A million dollar stash plus social security would easily last ten years. I just wouldn't leave much to my heirs . Planning for much more than that would be over planning and super pessimistic. Especially since it's likely a stash would grow using the four percent withdrawal

Retire-Canada

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 09:38:37 AM »
My expectation is that medically assisted dying in Canada will get more liberal over the next 30yrs+. I've got no intention of dragging things on and I don't see any benefit to living longer just for the sake of more time. My parents are in their 90's with no dementia so I hope to truck along until things start to get sad then end my life.

hgjjgkj

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2017, 09:40:22 AM »
My plan is to get my stash to the 4% withdrawal rate, use social security as a safety net, and assume end of life care won't go longer than ten years. Looking at the annual price of a nursing home that's 100k a year. A million dollar stash plus social security would easily last ten years. I just wouldn't leave much to my heirs . Planning for much more than that would be over planning and super pessimistic. Especially since it's likely a stash would grow using the four percent withdrawal


This brings up another good point. Assuming you are American, do you think about social mobility continuing to decline over the next several decades, therefore it would be more important to have something left to give heirs? Not an obscene amount but at least a few hundred K (which probably is obscene for many...)

wenchsenior

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 09:44:30 AM »
My impression is that there are quite a few people on this board that are young enough that they are in some sort of denial about this because they haven't dealt with chronic illness, disability, or aging of themselves or parents directly as yet.  It's understandable...I totally handwaved all that stuff until I was close to 40 and started dealing with chronic health issues myself, and saw gparents and parents in trouble as they aged.  Quite a large number of my friends also developed severe health problems in their 50s, which could prove challenging to manage if they live to be old.  All of a sudden, reality started looming incredibly large for me.

We don't have kids, DH isn't close to his family (who do have a fair number of  kids among them).  My family is fairly large, but includes a lot of single and/or childless people who will all be in the same boat as we are only with less money.  A lot of our friends also have no kids, or only 1 kid.  But having kids to help care for me would impose a huge burden on them.  I have seen how the stress of elder care really drives emotional wedges into formerly tight knit family groups on BOTH sides...money helps a bit, for sure, but even the side of my family that had plenty of resources more or less broke down...very little affection among them any more. 

We would have tried not to put that burden on any kids of ours anyway.  But it's moot. 

We got LTC insurance for my husband.  I am uninsurable, so I am going to continue to work part time and try to build an additional 200-300K to help pay for any care I might need.  Definitely the most challenging aspect of FI/retirement, I think.  Medical care needs will be the main reason we won't be able to fully retire, even after we are FI. 

On the other hand, I think there are a fair number on this board that expect to just pay down their estates and go on Medicaid, if they need to.  Which is fine, as long as we can prevent the GOP from gutting funding for that program.


 

Gilly

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2017, 09:56:01 AM »
Honestly I'm not too concerned about planning for that. Any child of mine will have the best upbringing I can provide while alive. If I remain in the same socio economic class this would be in the top twenty percent and give them access to lots of privilege and tools to better themselves. I also don't see it as a moral imperative to provide for them beyond my death. Of course I want to, but leaving a legacy is a bonus not a goal for me.

BigHaus89

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 10:37:05 AM »
My plan is to get my stash to the 4% withdrawal rate, use social security as a safety net, and assume end of life care won't go longer than ten years. Looking at the annual price of a nursing home that's 100k a year. A million dollar stash plus social security would easily last ten years. I just wouldn't leave much to my heirs . Planning for much more than that would be over planning and super pessimistic. Especially since it's likely a stash would grow using the four percent withdrawal

I would expect many here on MMM will likely have a stupid amount of money from a lifetime of compounding interest by the end of their lives. I don't think it's reasonable to speculate on the state of the world/country 50+ years down the road.

TrMama

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 10:49:12 AM »
My expectation is that medically assisted dying in Canada will get more liberal over the next 30yrs+. I've got no intention of dragging things on and I don't see any benefit to living longer just for the sake of more time. My parents are in their 90's with no dementia so I hope to truck along until things start to get sad then end my life.

This. And in response to the poster below who says this viewpoint is because I haven't been close to people at the end of their lives, it's actually the opposite. I've watched all my grandparents die slow, painful, undignified deaths. DH and I care for MIL and are planning for her end of life care (she's staunchly in the "do everything to prolong my life regardless of how awful my QOL gets" camp).

After this close up examination of what really happens, I've decided I want no part of it for myself.

honeybbq

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 11:06:06 AM »
I posted in another thread about this.

My MIL just passed, and towards the end of her life, she required round the clock care in her home at the price tag of 15k per month.

Yes, you can rely on the shitty place wherever the government puts you if you don't have any money. Yes you can rely on society. But why? So you can live at the bottom of the barrel when you need the most care? When you are sick and feeble and can't advocate for yourself?

No thanks. It's not for me.

I'll save extra. Maybe society will fix end of life care and how we care for the elderly by the time I am old but I doubt it.

wenchsenior

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 12:08:23 PM »
My expectation is that medically assisted dying in Canada will get more liberal over the next 30yrs+. I've got no intention of dragging things on and I don't see any benefit to living longer just for the sake of more time. My parents are in their 90's with no dementia so I hope to truck along until things start to get sad then end my life.

This. And in response to the poster below who says this viewpoint is because I haven't been close to people at the end of their lives, it's actually the opposite. I've watched all my grandparents die slow, painful, undignified deaths. DH and I care for MIL and are planning for her end of life care (she's staunchly in the "do everything to prolong my life regardless of how awful my QOL gets" camp).

After this close up examination of what really happens, I've decided I want no part of it for myself.

If you were referring to my post, you have a good point.   Once people experience that kind of thing, it could affect their thinking in many different ways.  I certainly have many times thought that I didn't want to end like one of my grandparents did. 

However, I am not sure assisted suicide really addresses a lot of the potential pitfalls that are likely to occur in a lot of cases.  Probably most people (certainly me) think that we would prefer assisted suicide to slow lingering death...it gives us a sense of dignity and control.  But there are a million shades to the 'decline and death' scenario.  There's becoming mentally disabled slowly, so that you aren't able to make the decision.  There is fear of the unknown when actually faced with decision.  There's the potential grief you might cause loved ones who themselves are not ready to let go.  There's the raw instinct to just fight for life, which logic and reason cannot always overcome.  There's the potential years spent in gradual decline where you need occasional assistance, but acclimate to that situation incrementally, and find that at each point where 'younger you' would have said, "enough", 'older you'  in fact wakes up each morning and wants one more day. 

How many times have you heard, "I would want to kill myself if [such and such accident, disability, emotional trauma] happened to me!"  And yet most do not kill themselves when the worst happens.  I think those who have the will AND the means (legally, functionally) to do it are probably rare.

I think of my own grandparents: 1 died young in an accident; 1 died after a few hospitalizations and relatively short stint in a nursing home  (about a year, pretty typical); 1 was disabled in terms of mobility early on and lived that way for years with declining mental acuity, cared for at home.  And 1 was immobile and blind and in a Medicaid nursing home for about 4 years, absolutely miserable.  She had dealt with her OWN mother's long nursring home decline and had always insisted that she herself would never want to live that way, she'd rather be dead.  Yet in the end, she lived an even more miserable last few years than her mother had, fighting to the end for every last breath and rejecting the idea of dying because even an occasional conversation or phone call, or an occasional bite of food that she enjoyed, etc., ended up being enough to fight for another day.

The will to survive is foundational, the product of millions of years of evolution.  It's hard to logically fight against it.   I certainly think everyone should plan for living wills and the conditions under which 'do not revive' should be implemented.  But I also think this doesn't actually address the reality that many of us will experience, of many years of decline prior to reaching the point of clearly deciding 'enough'.  Assuming we ever do reach that point, which I think most never do.  I hope to be one that does, but I'm not confident, given what I've seen.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 12:11:19 PM by wenchsenior »

Retire-Canada

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2017, 12:13:45 PM »
How many times have you heard, "I would want to kill myself if [such and such accident, disability, emotional trauma] happened to me!"  And yet most do not kill themselves when the worst happens.  I think those who have the will AND the means (legally, functionally) to do it are probably rare.

My GF is in management at the local hospital. When medically assisted dying became legal in Canada there was a ton of demand and it remains popular. I am not super excited about blowing my brains out with a 9mm, but having a doctor administer a painless and certain death when things have turned grim for me is a totally different option. Even now more and more patients who are not covered by our MAD law are asking for that service. Given that we use the majority of our medical services at the end of life I can see no logical argument for denying people that service. It makes them happy and it saves society a huge expense.

wenchsenior

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2017, 12:20:48 PM »
How many times have you heard, "I would want to kill myself if [such and such accident, disability, emotional trauma] happened to me!"  And yet most do not kill themselves when the worst happens.  I think those who have the will AND the means (legally, functionally) to do it are probably rare.

My GF is in management at the local hospital. When medically assisted dying became legal in Canada there was a ton of demand and it remains popular. I am not super excited about blowing my brains out with a 9mm, but having a doctor administer a painless and certain death when things have turned grim for me is a totally different option. Even now more and more patients who are not covered by our MAD law are asking for that service. Given that we use the majority of our medical services at the end of life I can see no logical argument for denying people that service. It makes them happy and it saves society a huge expense.

That is good news.  I could be overly pessimistic about the average person's willingness to die, just based on my personal up-close anecdotes. 

Retire-Canada

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 12:30:19 PM »
That is good news.  I could be overly pessimistic about the average person's willingness to die, just based on my personal up-close anecdotes.

I can only speak for myself, but I've made it one of my goals in life to accept death gracefully and not cling to life just because I was afraid. The only thing certain in life once you are born is your death so I have made peace with that fact. That's not to suggest I am in any hurry to die. I keep myself healthy and happy as best I can. I'm hopeful [based on my parents' ages and health outcomes] that I'll be a spry 80-90yr old. But when the time comes to accept an end I anticipate I will be okay with it.

marion10

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 12:39:08 PM »
My MIL had a long stay in a nursing home because of dementia. Ironically because it was such a good place and they took such good care of her she lived about 9 years. She exhausted her assets after about 18 months and Medicaid paid the rest- it was about 90,000 a year in rural Wisconsin. Her sons paid a modest amount (200 a month) to give her a private room. Not sure if the last two years she was aware enough to know- but it made visiting easier. My grandmother lived for many years after a stroke that left her partially paralyzed on one side. She lived alone for a while but eventually moved to an assisted living facility near us. It was one with an entrance  fee- (I have no idea what it was in 1974) and they provided care for the rest of your life. It is hard if you do not have nearby family. My mother is 80 and still works part time- but some activities are hard to do. She has long term care insurance ( don't know that particulars) and my husband and I do as well.  We are pretty adamant about living in a condo with an elevator and a walkable neighborhood. So many people want to retire out in the  country but it is hard to have no neighbors close by when you are 85.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 12:39:30 PM »
At the very end of your life when you need expensive medical care, that's when you use the principal of your accounts instead of just the earnings. Once you get to that point when you are too old and sick to take care of yourself anymore, you probably won't live too many more years, so just spend the money and it'll be fine.

FLBiker

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 12:49:38 PM »
Interesting question.  Personally, I suspect I'll end up with a bigger stash than I need (in part because I'm not factoring in social security, and also because I suspect I'll continue to earn at least SOME money in "retirement").  More than that, though, I think I'd rely on relationships.  I've been a very active member of a Buddhist community for the last few years, and I expect that to continue for the next several decades.  I've also been an active member of AA for a decade, and expect that to continue for the next several decades.  I also have a daughter and some nieces and nephews, although I certainly wouldn't want to burden them.

Fundamentally, though, who knows?  My mom died very suddenly (no health issues, on the phone with her 90 year old mom) at age 66.  And her mom has lived in subsidized housing (on slightly more than what she gets from SS) into her 90s.  She's thinking about moving to a nursing home now, though.  My DW's grandmother has dementia and is now in assisted living -- it's a pretty good place (not fancy, but comfortable) and costs ~$30K for assisted living.  And, once you're in, they'll put you in memory care even if you run out of money.

TrMama

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 12:58:14 PM »
That is good news.  I could be overly pessimistic about the average person's willingness to die, just based on my personal up-close anecdotes.

I can only speak for myself, but I've made it one of my goals in life to accept death gracefully and not cling to life just because I was afraid. The only thing certain in life once you are born is your death so I have made peace with that fact. That's not to suggest I am in any hurry to die. I keep myself healthy and happy as best I can. I'm hopeful [based on my parents' ages and health outcomes] that I'll be a spry 80-90yr old. But when the time comes to accept an end I anticipate I will be okay with it.

The other thing to remember is that the people who do choose MAID, or end their own lives via another mechanism, are no longer here to talk about it. So we end up with a biased view of "what really happens" because the people who actively chose to end their lives just aren't here anymore to talk about why and when they came to their decision.

For myself, I've spent a lot of time thinking about what conditions I'd be OK with and what things might trigger the decision. Also, when a doctor wants to perform X treatment on me to prolong my life I don't necessarily consent to it. This causes friction between myself and my GP because she approaches her patients' care from the point of view of "prolong life" while I approach my own care from the POV of "maintain quality of life" even if that's at the expense of time.

Like RC I'm in no hurry to die, but death is a certainty for all of us. I'd rather take proactive steps to meet my end on my own terms, rather than gracelessly flail to the finish line.

koshtra

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 12:58:34 PM »
We were just batting around ideas last night about how to set things up so that if one of us goes, and the other's judgment is not great, the things we want to happen still happen. One notion is to put our kids in charge of the property possibly earlier than most people do -- basically, as soon as one of us goes.

Your judgment often decays, when you get old, even if we're not talking Alzheimer's. You're a some risk for marrying someone you shouldn't, and for being taken advantage of in various other ways. Fortunately we trust our kids' judgment -- they're both steady, responsible types. I think the next stage for us is to figure out what legal structures, if any, we might want to set up, and to talk to the kids and see how they want to handle it. In a lot of ways this stage will belong more to them than to us. I don't have the slightest intention of bowing out before my mind is mush, and after my mind is mush it won't be my call anyway.

Cassie

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 01:19:11 PM »
My Mom kept my DAd at home and we lived close and helped a lot. My 2 sibs did not  help.  By the time my Mom needed help off and on I had moved far away but my 2 sibs were retired and did most of the work. I used some of my vacation or sick leave to fly out to help her.  She went into a home a week before she died. WE helped care for some friends for 6 months because  no family was close by but it got old and we are semi-retired so want to travel ,etc. They both ended up in a home because we had a vacation scheduled. Even in a decent place you have to keep on top of things and I was a guardian and it was a lot of work until they both died about 1 1/2 years later.  I would never do that again. We are in low 60's and intend to care for one another and the last man standing might end up in a home if things got bad. I don't want to be a burden to my kids. The last one alive could sell our home to pay for care. The key is to get into a nice home while you are self pay that won't throw you out once you are on Medicaid. That is what I did for my friends.

TempusFugit

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 03:42:32 PM »
This is the great unknown for almost everyone.  But honestly, there is very little that you can do about it that doesn't carry its own risks.  LTC insurance has become more and more expensive, with no way to know how much higher it will go or what it will really be worth 30 years from now when you need it.  As the baby boomers age I expect the rates to skyrocket much as regular HC insurance rates have done.  There may come a point where it just doesn't make sense to spend so much for insurance.

A few things that I sort of hope can ease the situation in the longer term:

1) Robots and telemedicine for home care.  Look to Japan to lead the way due to their combination of an aging population and advanced technology. 
2) self driving cars for self sufficiency.  Uber is already showing promise as a way for people to get around once they can't drive themselves. 
3) more and more home delivery of goods such as groceries
4) more and better home monitoring (more advanced versions of current medic alert type stuff)

Ultimately, I think that with the aging population here and especially abroad, along with a lower birthrate and the dissolution of the traditional family as a support structure, we will have to find ways as a society to deal with this issue. 

I'm at the beginning stages of dealing with an elderly parent now, since my dad passed a couple years ago and now my mom is almost 80 (though in generally good health).   Dad died from a heart attack while doing yard work, which sounds like a pretty nice way to go, to be honest.  No long drawn out illness, no hospitalization or nursing home.  Sign me up.  Just not for a few more decades, please.

Physicsteacher

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 04:32:51 PM »
These issues weigh heavily on my mind. I was involved in caring for my maternal grandparents, who both lived past ninety in poor health. My grandfather spent the last years of his life bedridden in a nursing home, eventually on Medicaid. My grandmother transitioned from her own house to an efficiency apartment in an assisted living facility to an incredibly depressing memory care ward, where she broke her hip after they took away her walker because she kept trying to ram people with it. My only sibling lives on the other side of the country and has bipolar disorder so it is quite clear that the responsibility for my parents when they reach their declining years will fall to me, and my husband and I are unlikely to have children so we must plan accordingly for our own old age.

I'm shooting for reaching FI with the 4% rule based on our investments alone by age fifty, when my parents will be eighty three. At that point, I should also have twenty five years of service in my state pension system and be eligible to take a reduced pension and purchase retiree health insurance for myself and my spouse. Thus, I will have the flexibility to walk away from paid employment to care for my parents if needed. Depending on my parents' health, my and my husband's health, and the size of our stasche, I might continue to teach full time or pick up some long term subbing or tutoring gigs. My pension plus eventual social security should provide a reasonable margin of safety for my own old age, and I may also consider a deferred longevity insurance annuity to kick in at 85. I'm not under the illusion that I'll still have the mental acuity or physical wherewithal to live a mustachian lifestyle forever so I need to build in the appropriate fallback plans. I'd prefer to end my days in a nice continuing care retirement community that will let me have a cat if I reach the point where independence is no longer a viable option so I need to accumulate the funds to make that happen.

mc6

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2017, 04:58:42 PM »
Iím 40 and have the federal long term care insurance thatís offered to federal employees.  I have no dependents or siblings or spouse, just a couple friends who I hope are responsible enough to be my executors and are listed in my medical directive.  I purposefully bought my condo in a place with plenty of handicapped parking and elevators and itís also within close proximity to a good hospital.  As The Who said so brilliantly, ďhope I die before I get old.Ē 

Apple_Tango

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2017, 05:35:34 PM »
This is why I am (against the advice of some people on this forum) considering my total stache in 2 parts- one is a totally taxable vanguard account that will be my FIRE fund, following a mustashian 4% SWR that will pay for all of my early retirement life.  The other part is made of 401ks and IRAs that at this point are all Roths and will be tax free withdrawals. Those accounts are designated to be my "old age" accounts and I hope that i actually never have to touch them although they should be about $3 mil all together by the time i'm in my 70s.

If anyone here listens to Ric Edleman, he hypothesizes that in the next couple decades technology will be so advanced that we will be healthier in our 70s than we are today, and that the need for long term care will go away.

wenchsenior

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 06:43:31 PM »


If anyone here listens to Ric Edleman, he hypothesizes that in the next couple decades technology will be so advanced that we will be healthier in our 70s than we are today, and that the need for long term care will go away.

I don't see how that will help, unless overall lifespans don't lengthen.  If they do, we just push to problem back a decade or two and burn up more health care resources in the meantime.  My impression is that our lifespans as Americans were increasing, on average, until very recently.  But I've never heard that our overall health or quality of life was keeping pace with at lifespan increase.  Instead, my impression is we are just drawing out the 'decline years'.  I could be wrong, though. 

Apple_Tango

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Re: How do you handle late life care for yourself?
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2017, 09:53:29 PM »
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/how-technology-changes-future-money-2017-3

He basically predicts a future where we will continue to work for our entire lives out of pure enjoyment of work, doing the things we want to do in our second or third careers. He predicts the end of traditional "retirement" where you retire at 65 and don't work again and then you die. Actually...the more I think of it, the more I feel like it is quite similar to the way mustachians do things now.

His prediction is basically:

1) get a job
2) work for a few years and save up money
3) take a break to raise kids and smell the roses
4) return to the career, or maybe get a second career
6) rinse and repeat as much as necessary
5) keep "working" until 70,80,90 because tech innovations (And maybe decreased stress?) will keep us healthier than ever.

On his radio show I heard recently that for the first time ever, he and his wife no longer own cars. They rent them, because the changes are coming too fast and if they bought a car today it would be obsolete in a year in terms of safety and tech innovation. He predicts that most people will just use rental cars and public transit in the future, and the used car market will be stupidly cheap so people won't want to buy new cars since they will drop to almost no value upon resale. For me (person who loves used clunkers) this is good news because I will get some great used cars to buy at a bargain!

His book is pretty interesting. He's not saying we won't die...but that dementia, strokes, heart attacks, diabetes, etc will be diseases of the past due to genetically engineered food, better surgeries, better medicine, bionics, wearable tech, etc....
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:58:57 PM by TravelingCheddar »