Author Topic: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?  (Read 13777 times)

mxt0133

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2016, 12:07:14 AM »
FIRE means financially independent retired early.

mxt0133

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2016, 12:28:13 AM »
I'm aiming for maybe a job that is 60K for right out of college, with ample opportunities to climb the ladder, with a peak salary near 100K.

If a career starts out at 60k and tops out at 100k after climbing the corporate ladder then you are in the wrong career or only got up one or two rungs.  To give you an idea of how much you can expect to earn vs expected salary after 20 years or so look up Glassdoor or Payscale.

In general the STEM degrees salaries start out high but tend to tail of if you stay technical.  You would need to move into management to continue to increase your salary.  On the other hand the less technical degrees like marketing, business, and communications pay shit at the beginning because there are so many applicants.  However, if you survive and rise to the top that's when your salary really takes off, like mid to high six figures. 

For perspective, I have a friend that works for a boutique communications firm that writes the speeches and press releases for companies.  We both have MBAs from the same school.  He bills around $500 an hour and works 80+ hours a week and hasn't taken a vacation in 5 years.  I'm in tech and I make a third of what he makes but I barely work 40 hour weeks and get to spend time with my family.  While he travels 3 weeks every month.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2016, 09:24:20 AM »
FIRE means financially independent retired early.

It makes sense now. Thanks!

I'm aiming for maybe a job that is 60K for right out of college, with ample opportunities to climb the ladder, with a peak salary near 100K.

If a career starts out at 60k and tops out at 100k after climbing the corporate ladder then you are in the wrong career or only got up one or two rungs.  To give you an idea of how much you can expect to earn vs expected salary after 20 years or so look up Glassdoor or Payscale.

In general the STEM degrees salaries start out high but tend to tail of if you stay technical.  You would need to move into management to continue to increase your salary.  On the other hand the less technical degrees like marketing, business, and communications pay shit at the beginning because there are so many applicants.  However, if you survive and rise to the top that's when your salary really takes off, like mid to high six figures. 

For perspective, I have a friend that works for a boutique communications firm that writes the speeches and press releases for companies.  We both have MBAs from the same school.  He bills around $500 an hour and works 80+ hours a week and hasn't taken a vacation in 5 years.  I'm in tech and I make a third of what he makes but I barely work 40 hour weeks and get to spend time with my family.  While he travels 3 weeks every month.

Apologies, I had no idea. I did take a look at payscale, and was intrigued by their "college ROI guide" linked here. Should I be worried about this at all? I looked up JSU for giggles, with the following options selected:

  • On campus
  • With financial Aid

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.


runningthroughFIRE

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #53 on: May 16, 2016, 07:55:48 AM »
I'm pretty known for overextending, or stretching myself too thinly. I'm getting better at not doing that, but sometimes I refuse things I KNOW I could do, in fear of not being able to complete it. Experience will refine my intuition I think.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to get adequate sleep as a high school teenager. Especially this year, with the suicidal amounts of AP classes and Honors classes I've taken. Thankfully junior year ends in 14 days (including weekends) so the pain will be over soon. Next year I took it back SEVERAL notches, only taking one AP class (it's one that is known to be really easy too) and all regular. Hopefully I'll get some good sleep, and sock in some cash to start a nest egg; my goal is to put away around $20k before senior year graduation.  I've got the meeting people and diving headfirst into classes part down though :)

I'll make sure to keep that in mind. I've already got a major amount, if not all of, freshman college year done through online college, so I've already accumulated quite a bit of credits. I think I can afford doing some sampling, and really figuring out what it is that gets me going.

I have NEVER taking extracurriculars thinking "hmmm, this'll go good with my major" in hand. I take them because I'm interested. Good to know this can be beneficial :)

STEM I think is cited due to its high growth, which some would equate to as job availability. My parents both have engineering degrees, but I'm not sure if I was called to the that line of work. I think you can make any career path work if you really want it too, so it's just finding somewhere that aligns with my work values.

It's a good thing my weighted GPA is a 3.9 then.

Grades are only good to a certain point, experience is probably even more important so then academics. I'll be on a rage-induced mission to find internships, preferably paid. But I'll take what I can get.
You sound a lot like me 5 years ago.  I scored a 31 on the ACT as well, came into college one class shy of being a sophomore, and took bonus classes over the recommended amount when I did get there.  I almost got knocked out of my program for a dropping GPA by overextending myself.  If I could tell my younger freshman self just one thing, it would be to make sleep a priority, not a "try to get what you can" kind of thing.

Also, all internship offers should be paid (at least for finance), or I would stay away from that company.

Gotcha. Sleep is a priority. Will do. And I will take this advice to heart, so I should stay away from ALL unpaid internship? How can one decide if the experience is good enough that it'll be okay without pay? What are prime companies I should look into interning for? Small, startups? Big, established companies? What are some guidelines?
Unpaid internships aren't necessarily bad, but most business-related internships that are worth taking will involve you doing real value-added work for the company, and getting work experience.  When you're actually adding to the value of the company, the legality of unpaid internships is shaky at best and they really should be paying you.  Bear in mind that I was looking at finance/accounting jobs specifically, so YMMV.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2016, 11:48:53 AM »
I'm pretty known for overextending, or stretching myself too thinly. I'm getting better at not doing that, but sometimes I refuse things I KNOW I could do, in fear of not being able to complete it. Experience will refine my intuition I think.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to get adequate sleep as a high school teenager. Especially this year, with the suicidal amounts of AP classes and Honors classes I've taken. Thankfully junior year ends in 14 days (including weekends) so the pain will be over soon. Next year I took it back SEVERAL notches, only taking one AP class (it's one that is known to be really easy too) and all regular. Hopefully I'll get some good sleep, and sock in some cash to start a nest egg; my goal is to put away around $20k before senior year graduation.  I've got the meeting people and diving headfirst into classes part down though :)

I'll make sure to keep that in mind. I've already got a major amount, if not all of, freshman college year done through online college, so I've already accumulated quite a bit of credits. I think I can afford doing some sampling, and really figuring out what it is that gets me going.

I have NEVER taking extracurriculars thinking "hmmm, this'll go good with my major" in hand. I take them because I'm interested. Good to know this can be beneficial :)

STEM I think is cited due to its high growth, which some would equate to as job availability. My parents both have engineering degrees, but I'm not sure if I was called to the that line of work. I think you can make any career path work if you really want it too, so it's just finding somewhere that aligns with my work values.

It's a good thing my weighted GPA is a 3.9 then.

Grades are only good to a certain point, experience is probably even more important so then academics. I'll be on a rage-induced mission to find internships, preferably paid. But I'll take what I can get.
You sound a lot like me 5 years ago.  I scored a 31 on the ACT as well, came into college one class shy of being a sophomore, and took bonus classes over the recommended amount when I did get there.  I almost got knocked out of my program for a dropping GPA by overextending myself.  If I could tell my younger freshman self just one thing, it would be to make sleep a priority, not a "try to get what you can" kind of thing.

Also, all internship offers should be paid (at least for finance), or I would stay away from that company.

Gotcha. Sleep is a priority. Will do. And I will take this advice to heart, so I should stay away from ALL unpaid internship? How can one decide if the experience is good enough that it'll be okay without pay? What are prime companies I should look into interning for? Small, startups? Big, established companies? What are some guidelines?
Unpaid internships aren't necessarily bad, but most business-related internships that are worth taking will involve you doing real value-added work for the company, and getting work experience.  When you're actually adding to the value of the company, the legality of unpaid internships is shaky at best and they really should be paying you.  Bear in mind that I was looking at finance/accounting jobs specifically, so YMMV.

Understood. Gotcha. I think I'll be opening up  an investing questions thread over in the  alley, as I have a couple hundred now and would like to get started :)

onlykelsey

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2016, 12:35:39 PM »
I'm pretty known for overextending, or stretching myself too thinly. I'm getting better at not doing that, but sometimes I refuse things I KNOW I could do, in fear of not being able to complete it. Experience will refine my intuition I think.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to get adequate sleep as a high school teenager. Especially this year, with the suicidal amounts of AP classes and Honors classes I've taken. Thankfully junior year ends in 14 days (including weekends) so the pain will be over soon. Next year I took it back SEVERAL notches, only taking one AP class (it's one that is known to be really easy too) and all regular. Hopefully I'll get some good sleep, and sock in some cash to start a nest egg; my goal is to put away around $20k before senior year graduation.  I've got the meeting people and diving headfirst into classes part down though :)

I'll make sure to keep that in mind. I've already got a major amount, if not all of, freshman college year done through online college, so I've already accumulated quite a bit of credits. I think I can afford doing some sampling, and really figuring out what it is that gets me going.

I have NEVER taking extracurriculars thinking "hmmm, this'll go good with my major" in hand. I take them because I'm interested. Good to know this can be beneficial :)

STEM I think is cited due to its high growth, which some would equate to as job availability. My parents both have engineering degrees, but I'm not sure if I was called to the that line of work. I think you can make any career path work if you really want it too, so it's just finding somewhere that aligns with my work values.

It's a good thing my weighted GPA is a 3.9 then.

Grades are only good to a certain point, experience is probably even more important so then academics. I'll be on a rage-induced mission to find internships, preferably paid. But I'll take what I can get.
You sound a lot like me 5 years ago.  I scored a 31 on the ACT as well, came into college one class shy of being a sophomore, and took bonus classes over the recommended amount when I did get there.  I almost got knocked out of my program for a dropping GPA by overextending myself.  If I could tell my younger freshman self just one thing, it would be to make sleep a priority, not a "try to get what you can" kind of thing.

Also, all internship offers should be paid (at least for finance), or I would stay away from that company.

Gotcha. Sleep is a priority. Will do. And I will take this advice to heart, so I should stay away from ALL unpaid internship? How can one decide if the experience is good enough that it'll be okay without pay? What are prime companies I should look into interning for? Small, startups? Big, established companies? What are some guidelines?
Unpaid internships aren't necessarily bad, but most business-related internships that are worth taking will involve you doing real value-added work for the company, and getting work experience.  When you're actually adding to the value of the company, the legality of unpaid internships is shaky at best and they really should be paying you.  Bear in mind that I was looking at finance/accounting jobs specifically, so YMMV.

Understood. Gotcha. I think I'll be opening up  an investing questions thread over in the  alley, as I have a couple hundred now and would like to get started :)

I think you'd gain a lot from looking at least some of the threads where people have asked investing questions before starting your own.  Once you have a preliminary plan based on your reading, you'll get much better responses.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2016, 12:47:58 PM »
Update: Finally got a investing-centered thread up in the alley. I had some questions on my own, and figured it be nice. Links in OP, and here too.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/how-does-a-minor-start-with-getting-invested-(investing-questions-also)/

mxt0133

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2016, 01:07:06 PM »

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.

I would be very careful how you read this list.  These number do not take into account ROI at the major level, which I think is a more meaning full in your circumstance.  To give you an example my undergrad alma mater NJIT is ranked higher at 36th vs UCLA or Duke.  I would like to think that UCLA and Duke have superior programs overall, better alumni support, and overall brand recognition.  The reason why NJIT is ranked higher is because of the concentration of STEM majors graduating.  Again STEM majors normally make more of the bat and have jobs lined up right after graduation.  While the other schools have a more even distribution of the arts and humanities degrees which don't necessarily translate to high job placements or starting salaries.

To help address some of your concerns I would research the job placement and starting salary statistics for the specific majors you are interested in for your college and go from there.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2016, 01:26:28 PM »

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.

I would be very careful how you read this list.  These number do not take into account ROI at the major level, which I think is a more meaning full in your circumstance.  To give you an example my undergrad alma mater NJIT is ranked higher at 36th vs UCLA or Duke.  I would like to think that UCLA and Duke have superior programs overall, better alumni support, and overall brand recognition.  The reason why NJIT is ranked higher is because of the concentration of STEM majors graduating.  Again STEM majors normally make more of the bat and have jobs lined up right after graduation.  While the other schools have a more even distribution of the arts and humanities degrees which don't necessarily translate to high job placements or starting salaries.

To help address some of your concerns I would research the job placement and starting salary statistics for the specific majors you are interested in for your college and go from there.

Gotcha. According to this website, the average across business management positions (its such a broad subject, so there are many different specialties you can focus in on) is around $100,000 which is very comforting to know.

So assuming you start out maybe 15% lower than the median of 95k for business management positions, and that total cost of JSU for for year is just under 70k... Wouldn't my annual ROI for a net 20-year be much, MUCH higher? Am I calculating this wrong?

MMMWannaBe

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2016, 02:20:58 PM »
I think I may be reiterating what others have said.  But my experience is that you don't graduate from college and go into "management positions".  Management positions are rewarded to those who have done their technical jobs well. 

I think the best way to maximize your earning potential is to go with a large company.  And don't stay in the same position, keep moving.  The annual budget for annual increases is rather fixed....new positions give opportunity for much larger increases.

In the end very person finds their own career path.  There is no formula and there are many roads to success.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2016, 02:30:15 PM »
I think I may be reiterating what others have said.  But my experience is that you don't graduate from college and go into "management positions".  Management positions are rewarded to those who have done their technical jobs well. 

I think the best way to maximize your earning potential is to go with a large company.  And don't stay in the same position, keep moving.  The annual budget for annual increases is rather fixed....new positions give opportunity for much larger increases.

In the end very person finds their own career path.  There is no formula and there are many roads to success.

So what would a person pursuing a business management degree startout with? I'd assume it would be a minor management or maybe doing some management related work, but not necessarily the Chief Officer of a department automatically, if that makes sense.

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2016, 02:47:10 PM »

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.

I would be very careful how you read this list.  These number do not take into account ROI at the major level, which I think is a more meaning full in your circumstance.  To give you an example my undergrad alma mater NJIT is ranked higher at 36th vs UCLA or Duke.  I would like to think that UCLA and Duke have superior programs overall, better alumni support, and overall brand recognition.  The reason why NJIT is ranked higher is because of the concentration of STEM majors graduating.  Again STEM majors normally make more of the bat and have jobs lined up right after graduation.  While the other schools have a more even distribution of the arts and humanities degrees which don't necessarily translate to high job placements or starting salaries.

To help address some of your concerns I would research the job placement and starting salary statistics for the specific majors you are interested in for your college and go from there.

Gotcha. According to this website, the average across business management positions (its such a broad subject, so there are many different specialties you can focus in on) is around $100,000 which is very comforting to know.

So assuming you start out maybe 15% lower than the median of 95k for business management positions, and that total cost of JSU for for year is just under 70k... Wouldn't my annual ROI for a net 20-year be much, MUCH higher? Am I calculating this wrong?
I think you're misinterpreting the salaries on that website.  It lists several management positions and typical salaries, but none of them are starting positions.  I would be amazed if any company was willing to hire a fresh college grad in a management position.  After several years of experience and a job hop or two, those salary ranges become feasible.  My undergrad degree was business administration with a specialization in accounting.  I'm not a manager; I'm an accountant.

You'll likely start out with an entry level job with your specialization/technical area making $45K-$65K depending on your specialization, geographical location, and qualifications.  That's the range of most of my peers' first-year salaries after graduation.  Most of them were either accounting/finance, information systems, or logistics.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2016, 03:03:55 PM »
Honestly, I'm posting to follow. Even at 27, there is some great advice for me in this thread.

My only advice: make your major count. Not just in terms of money, but passion. I did a STEM degree for my first, and hated the job I ended up in. Had a full ride. I ended up going back to college again to get my nursing degree. Hint: there aren't many scholarships for the second degree! So even though I did things "right": STEM, full ride, finish in 4 years, I ended up in student debt anyway. I am much happier for it. And honestly, more than the debt, I regret the years I "lost" far more. Opportunity cost of time is a big deal, particularly since I want a large family. In many ways, I am 4 years behind where I want to be.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2016, 03:06:11 PM »
Honestly, I'm posting to follow. Even at 27, there is some great advice for me in this thread.

My only advice: make your major count. Not just in terms of money, but passion. I did a STEM degree for my first, and hated the job I ended up in. Had a full ride. I ended up going back to college again to get my nursing degree. Hint: there aren't many scholarships for the second degree! So even though I did things "right": STEM, full ride, finish in 4 years, I ended up in student debt anyway. I am much happier for it. And honestly, more than the debt, I regret the years I "lost" far more. Opportunity cost of time is a big deal, particularly since I want a large family. In many ways, I am 4 years behind where I want to be.

I understand. It's like I feel that I would enjoy a managerial kind of job and am academically inclined so I would understand the subject matter, I don't know if this is my "passion". I still have a lot of soul searching and self discovery, but that's only something I can do on my own.

And yes, time is about the most powerful thing, both as an ally and an enemy. Use it wisely :)

boarder42

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2016, 04:04:30 PM »
You don't just come out of school as a manager. I feel like I'm repeating a few things already said here but getting a tech degree and then being managerial inclined will lead to management typically.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2016, 04:27:19 PM »

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.

I would be very careful how you read this list.  These number do not take into account ROI at the major level, which I think is a more meaning full in your circumstance.  To give you an example my undergrad alma mater NJIT is ranked higher at 36th vs UCLA or Duke.  I would like to think that UCLA and Duke have superior programs overall, better alumni support, and overall brand recognition.  The reason why NJIT is ranked higher is because of the concentration of STEM majors graduating.  Again STEM majors normally make more of the bat and have jobs lined up right after graduation.  While the other schools have a more even distribution of the arts and humanities degrees which don't necessarily translate to high job placements or starting salaries.

To help address some of your concerns I would research the job placement and starting salary statistics for the specific majors you are interested in for your college and go from there.

Gotcha. According to this website, the average across business management positions (its such a broad subject, so there are many different specialties you can focus in on) is around $100,000 which is very comforting to know.

So assuming you start out maybe 15% lower than the median of 95k for business management positions, and that total cost of JSU for for year is just under 70k... Wouldn't my annual ROI for a net 20-year be much, MUCH higher? Am I calculating this wrong?
I think you're misinterpreting the salaries on that website.  It lists several management positions and typical salaries, but none of them are starting positions.  I would be amazed if any company was willing to hire a fresh college grad in a management position.  After several years of experience and a job hop or two, those salary ranges become feasible.  My undergrad degree was business administration with a specialization in accounting.  I'm not a manager; I'm an accountant.

You'll likely start out with an entry level job with your specialization/technical area making $45K-$65K depending on your specialization, geographical location, and qualifications.  That's the range of most of my peers' first-year salaries after graduation.  Most of them were either accounting/finance, information systems, or logistics.

I just skipped this the first time around... Wow yeah I feel foolish now posting what I did do. And yeah, okay gotcha. Makes sense. Even at these rates, my entire 4 year college would be paid off in over just a year, so again ROI should be extremely high?

MMMWannaBe

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2016, 04:45:53 PM »

"So what would a person pursuing a business management degree startout with? I'd assume it would be a minor management or maybe doing some management related work, but not necessarily the Chief Officer of a department automatically, if that makes sense."
[/quote]

There is a degree in management and human resources. Those folks are usually involved in hiring employees and dealing with personnel issues. Within a company there are not many folks in Human resources as other disciplines. If money is the objective MHR is not what I would select.

Business Management as you reference sounds like a general business degree. Within business I think the most options are available to accounting degrees.  I was in management. I managed 5 departments. My education was in Finance with an MBA and my experience was in accounting. I started as an analyst and was promoted from there. I never hired anybody directly into a supervisory role. They had to prove themselves first as an analyst and then they could be promoted to a supervisor. If they were successful as a supervisor their next move was to manager. I did not like managing people. I was responsible for things I could not control. Eventually I hit peak stress level and I left. Luckily after leaving I discovered we were FI.

Not sure whether my experience is translatable. But that was my experience. And I do suggest trying different jobs within an organization. You never know what you may enjoy.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 04:49:07 PM by MMMWannaBe »

HydroJim

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2016, 05:57:32 PM »


Apologies, I had no idea. I did take a look at payscale, and was intrigued by their "college ROI guide" linked here. Should I be worried about this at all? I looked up JSU for giggles, with the following options selected:

  • On campus
  • With financial Aid

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.
[/quote]

That's where I'm currently studying. Locally economy is dominated by technology so that probably leads to the high ROI. Definitely not a bad thing depending on what you want to do with your degree and career.

Here's the college distribution for the school. As you can see, most of the university is dominated by well paying degrees.
http://www.uah.edu/admissions/undergraduate/class-profile

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2016, 09:46:40 PM »

"So what would a person pursuing a business management degree startout with? I'd assume it would be a minor management or maybe doing some management related work, but not necessarily the Chief Officer of a department automatically, if that makes sense."

There is a degree in management and human resources. Those folks are usually involved in hiring employees and dealing with personnel issues. Within a company there are not many folks in Human resources as other disciplines. If money is the objective MHR is not what I would select.

Business Management as you reference sounds like a general business degree. Within business I think the most options are available to accounting degrees.  I was in management. I managed 5 departments. My education was in Finance with an MBA and my experience was in accounting. I started as an analyst and was promoted from there. I never hired anybody directly into a supervisory role. They had to prove themselves first as an analyst and then they could be promoted to a supervisor. If they were successful as a supervisor their next move was to manager. I did not like managing people. I was responsible for things I could not control. Eventually I hit peak stress level and I left. Luckily after leaving I discovered we were FI.

Not sure whether my experience is translatable. But that was my experience. And I do suggest trying different jobs within an organization. You never know what you may enjoy.
[/quote]

I think the way business management works is they teach a broad subject of business related disciplines, and you can choose where to specialize in. Medical and health services has a strong demand for business management (17% growth) so I look into that.



Apologies, I had no idea. I did take a look at payscale, and was intrigued by their "college ROI guide" linked here. Should I be worried about this at all? I looked up JSU for giggles, with the following options selected:

  • On campus
  • With financial Aid

And it JSU shows up 973 with $206,000 for a net 20-year ROI and in 440th place at 8.9% ROI for the next 20 years. I honestly don't know what to think about this, could someone more experienced perhaps help me out?

What's even more surprising is that University of Alabama - Huntsville, is number 57 on this list, supposedly giving an annual ROI of 12.8%.

That's where I'm currently studying. Locally economy is dominated by technology so that probably leads to the high ROI. Definitely not a bad thing depending on what you want to do with your degree and career.

Here's the college distribution for the school. As you can see, most of the university is dominated by well paying degrees.
http://www.uah.edu/admissions/undergraduate/class-profile
[/quote]

Yeah makes sense, with Huntsville housing the space center and all, it makes sense. And how do you like UAH? WJat major and degree are you pursing if you don't mind me asking?

HydroJim

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2016, 11:58:23 AM »
Yeah makes sense, with Huntsville housing the space center and all, it makes sense. And how do you like UAH? WJat major and degree are you pursing if you don't mind me asking?

I like UAH but I don't exactly have any other college to compare it to so my opinion is probably biased. It's obviously not MIT but our engineering department attracts similar talent and we use the same textbooks. I haven't found the lack of name recognition to be a hindrance in my ability to get internships at the big name companies.

I'm currently pursuing a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering.

I know the nursing program and Business college have good reputations as well. I can't directly speak to their quality though as I have no experience with them.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions you have but I'd suggest that you PM so that we don't dilute this thread.

formerlydivorcedmom

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2016, 01:48:34 PM »
1.  Before you commit to a college, find out just how much help they will give you in finding an internship / finding a job.  Some do better than others.

2.  In college, try to take your 300-level classes ASAP.  It's better to find out early that you hate the major than right before you are supposed to graduate.

3.  Before you commit to a major, find out what types of jobs people who majored in that discipline from your college got.  Are you interested in those?  Talk to graduates and ask about their career paths.  Does this sound interesting to you?  Often the entry-level jobs are way different from your goal.

4.  Before you arrive on campus, see how many courses you can test out of.  Besides AP and SAT II credit, many colleges allow you to take a test on-campus to test-out of a course.  I entered college with two semesters of credit.  That meant either a) graduating early and starting to earn money or b) since school was paid for, time to focus on other interesting courses.
4a.   Take extra classes in subjects that further your goals.  An IT degree + Finance/Accounting knowledge is VERY marketable.  I minored in French;  I am an amateur genealogist and intend to one day do genealogy consulting, and I needed to be able to read the old documents. 

5.  Try a lot of different stuff and keep an open mind.  You may not realize what you are good at until you've done it for a while.
5a.  Actively seek out education opportunities.  You will be surprised at how much might be available to you at different companies.

6.  Don't be afraid to reinvent yourself, career-wise, every few years.  (Networking helps you find opportunities.)

7.  If at all possible, study abroad for a semester.  It will open your eyes to other cultures and ways of doing things, it gives you something interesting to talk about, and it is a really nice reward when school is already paid for.

I have an MIS degree (Management of Information Systems).  I had two internships.  The first one, I realized I did not enjoy that type of work, so I shifted my major a bit.  The second internship I really enjoyed - I knew I was on the right track.

I was trained to do coding and business analysis. Less than 15% of my average workweek is spent doing that.  I discovered that I am really damn good at taking a team from anarchy to established procedures.  It's a combination of project management, process analysis & architecture, and people leadership.   In all three companies I've worked for post-graduation, I end up "fixing" the group I've been hired into.   There's no way I would have discovered that talent in college.

Good luck, and have fun!!! 

FIRE47

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2016, 05:18:58 PM »
My advice which may be against the grain here is to not worry about it yet.

Pick the right major, work hard in school don't take on too much or any debt if possible and live your life. Have fun. Don't think a night out or a road trip is delaying your FIRE.

Regardless it may be too late and you may have already swallowed the red pill. Once you are aware you may never go back. Personally I'm glad I didn't swallow the pill until I was 21-22 ignorance can be bliss.

MattC

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2016, 08:21:43 PM »
My only additional advice (great stuff here; precrime3, thanks for starting the thread) would be that FI isn't the goal.  The goal is to love God and love your neighbor (at least from the Catholic background that you mentioned you have).  It's that whole greatest commandment bit - Jesus replied the greatest commandment is to love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.  This is the first and greatest commandment.  And the second is like it; love your neighbor as yourself.  All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments. 

Ultimately, FI can be kind of a sub-goal or a tool that may (or may not) be used to help you love God and neighbor.  i.e. pursuing FI can "hang on" loving God and neighbor. 

I bring this up because of the Catholic background - I think the logical application of that theology (and Christianity in general) is to do the stuff in life that maximizes loving God and neighbor.  The "Benefit" in our cost/benefit analyses needs to measure more than dollars and cents; it needs to be more like a utility equation, where dollars and cents have some value (because we can accomplish positive things with them) but so do other social goods. 

A lot of this site rightly points out how being a sukka consumer gets in the way of our long term goals.  That simplifying and doing things more rationally will lead us to a better outcome.  However, the way some people do it, pursuing FI can be just a more future-looking way of being shortsighted if the things we do to get FI also don't truly live out our values.  I'm not saying don't pursue FI; I'm getting there myself as most of us here are, just "use your powers for good, not evil".  Or maybe, "use your powers for good, not affluent irrelevance".

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2016, 10:11:19 PM »
Yeah makes sense, with Huntsville housing the space center and all, it makes sense. And how do you like UAH? WJat major and degree are you pursing if you don't mind me asking?

I like UAH but I don't exactly have any other college to compare it to so my opinion is probably biased. It's obviously not MIT but our engineering department attracts similar talent and we use the same textbooks. I haven't found the lack of name recognition to be a hindrance in my ability to get internships at the big name companies.

I'm currently pursuing a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering.

I know the nursing program and Business college have good reputations as well. I can't directly speak to their quality though as I have no experience with them.

I'd be happy to answer any more questions you have but I'd suggest that you PM so that we don't dilute this thread.

Gotcha, thanks for the responses . I'll shoot you a PM, if I've got anymore questions.

1.  Before you commit to a college, find out just how much help they will give you in finding an internship / finding a job.  Some do better than others.

2.  In college, try to take your 300-level classes ASAP.  It's better to find out early that you hate the major than right before you are supposed to graduate.

3.  Before you commit to a major, find out what types of jobs people who majored in that discipline from your college got.  Are you interested in those?  Talk to graduates and ask about their career paths.  Does this sound interesting to you?  Often the entry-level jobs are way different from your goal.

4.  Before you arrive on campus, see how many courses you can test out of.  Besides AP and SAT II credit, many colleges allow you to take a test on-campus to test-out of a course.  I entered college with two semesters of credit.  That meant either a) graduating early and starting to earn money or b) since school was paid for, time to focus on other interesting courses.
4a.   Take extra classes in subjects that further your goals.  An IT degree + Finance/Accounting knowledge is VERY marketable.  I minored in French;  I am an amateur genealogist and intend to one day do genealogy consulting, and I needed to be able to read the old documents. 

5.  Try a lot of different stuff and keep an open mind.  You may not realize what you are good at until you've done it for a while.
5a.  Actively seek out education opportunities.  You will be surprised at how much might be available to you at different companies.

6.  Don't be afraid to reinvent yourself, career-wise, every few years.  (Networking helps you find opportunities.)

7.  If at all possible, study abroad for a semester.  It will open your eyes to other cultures and ways of doing things, it gives you something interesting to talk about, and it is a really nice reward when school is already paid for.

I have an MIS degree (Management of Information Systems).  I had two internships.  The first one, I realized I did not enjoy that type of work, so I shifted my major a bit.  The second internship I really enjoyed - I knew I was on the right track.

I was trained to do coding and business analysis. Less than 15% of my average workweek is spent doing that.  I discovered that I am really damn good at taking a team from anarchy to established procedures.  It's a combination of project management, process analysis & architecture, and people leadership.   In all three companies I've worked for post-graduation, I end up "fixing" the group I've been hired into.   There's no way I would have discovered that talent in college.

Good luck, and have fun!!! 

1. This is a good point I've overlooked. Colleges are good networking opportunities, but it makes sense some might be better than others.
2. I will remmebe this, yeah definitely. I certainly don't want to be the guy that isn3 years in and decided he hates his major. Hopefully I don't change at all, but if I do, in the first year hopefully.
3. Good points. I'll try and find people in my degree (in looking at buisess management or maybe MIS) so maybe you could help me with that :)
4. With me loading up on AP classes, and about 80% of freshman year of college done through online classes taken during my time as a high school student, I think it's safe to say I got this :)
5. Oh yeah definitely. I've recently realized I want to learn a trade, as a form of enjoyable work after FI, or maybe even as side-hustle. Thinking either wood working/carpentry, working on houses, or working on cars.
6. Will do.
7. I would love to study abroad, or go abroad in general. Other cultures are always awesome!

Thanks for the advice man.

My advice which may be against the grain here is to not worry about it yet.

Pick the right major, work hard in school don't take on too much or any debt if possible and live your life. Have fun. Don't think a night out or a road trip is delaying your FIRE.

Regardless it may be too late and you may have already swallowed the red pill. Once you are aware you may never go back. Personally I'm glad I didn't swallow the pill until I was 21-22 ignorance can be bliss.

Interesting point of view. Unfortunately, I'm too far gone :)

My only additional advice (great stuff here; precrime3, thanks for starting the thread) would be that FI isn't the goal.  The goal is to love God and love your neighbor (at least from the Catholic background that you mentioned you have).  It's that whole greatest commandment bit - Jesus replied the greatest commandment is to love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.  This is the first and greatest commandment.  And the second is like it; love your neighbor as yourself.  All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments. 

Ultimately, FI can be kind of a sub-goal or a tool that may (or may not) be used to help you love God and neighbor.  i.e. pursuing FI can "hang on" loving God and neighbor. 

I bring this up because of the Catholic background - I think the logical application of that theology (and Christianity in general) is to do the stuff in life that maximizes loving God and neighbor.  The "Benefit" in our cost/benefit analyses needs to measure more than dollars and cents; it needs to be more like a utility equation, where dollars and cents have some value (because we can accomplish positive things with them) but so do other social goods. 

A lot of this site rightly points out how being a sukka consumer gets in the way of our long term goals.  That simplifying and doing things more rationally will lead us to a better outcome.  However, the way some people do it, pursuing FI can be just a more future-looking way of being shortsighted if the things we do to get FI also don't truly live out our values.  I'm not saying don't pursue FI; I'm getting there myself as most of us here are, just "use your powers for good, not evil".  Or maybe, "use your powers for good, not affluent irrelevance".

I should be thanking YOU GUYS for the overwhelming comments I got. I'm making some good side-hustle money through two little short-term jobs (one is $10/hr, one is $15/hr). My next try is flipping furniture in Craigslist, that should be fun! On to me replying to your post...

I totally agree. I'll still probably donate a considerable amount, or some other insane thing that would delay my FI but coincides with my values. While FI is amazing, I wouldn't let my values be compromised, and I don't think they have to be. It's possible to have both :)

zephyr911

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2016, 12:28:39 PM »
Am I too early to be concerned about early retirement? What should I know? Any pieces of advice?
NO! It is never too early! In fact, you should be congratulating the shit out of yourself for thinking so far ahead! At this rate, you could be retired in your 20s if you really want.
It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas firmly in place already. All I would add is:
1) Continually learn more about investing so your savings can work as hard as possible for you.
2) Periodically rethink what people have told you, and what you have assumed, about how to get there - not just financially, I mean the entire approach to defining and pursuing happiness. Structure your life so that finances aren't the prime determinant for everything. That does require financial success, generally, but you should also think and plan beyond that.
3) Don't let peer pressure and other social factors discourage you from striving toward your goals.
I started thinking about FIRE at 21, and then I wasted a whole decade on various diversions (and mistakes) without saving anything. It was another 3+ before I got serious about making things happen, and yet I will still be mostly retired in my late 30s. Extrapolate to your situation. You could be totally work-optional while your joints still work great, ski 300 days a year or whatever floats your boat, no obligations to anyone, ever again.

The last thing I'd add... don't let anyone tell you what is and isn't: work/happiness/retirement/joy/freedom/etc. If you find a job you love, work it as long as you love it. Interestingly enough, you're more likely to feel that way if you know you could walk out the door tomorrow and live off your investments (or at least live off savings for a while). Like you say, wage slavery sucks.

Oh, also, re: Huntsville, UAH etc: I am a DAC/GS Army guy on Redstone Arsenal, and a real estate investor in Madison County (mostly Huntsville, but also in Madison). If you have any questions about specifics - how I am turning the local conditions into a FIRE express, etc - let me know. I am of the opinion that just being here is a massive stroke of luck, and anyone in this area who's not on a rocket sled to FI is squandering incomparable opportunity.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 12:31:10 PM by zephyr911 »

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2016, 05:59:46 PM »
Am I too early to be concerned about early retirement? What should I know? Any pieces of advice?
NO! It is never too early! In fact, you should be congratulating the shit out of yourself for thinking so far ahead! At this rate, you could be retired in your 20s if you really want.
It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas firmly in place already. All I would add is:
1) Continually learn more about investing so your savings can work as hard as possible for you.
2) Periodically rethink what people have told you, and what you have assumed, about how to get there - not just financially, I mean the entire approach to defining and pursuing happiness. Structure your life so that finances aren't the prime determinant for everything. That does require financial success, generally, but you should also think and plan beyond that.
3) Don't let peer pressure and other social factors discourage you from striving toward your goals.
I started thinking about FIRE at 21, and then I wasted a whole decade on various diversions (and mistakes) without saving anything. It was another 3+ before I got serious about making things happen, and yet I will still be mostly retired in my late 30s. Extrapolate to your situation. You could be totally work-optional while your joints still work great, ski 300 days a year or whatever floats your boat, no obligations to anyone, ever again.

The last thing I'd add... don't let anyone tell you what is and isn't: work/happiness/retirement/joy/freedom/etc. If you find a job you love, work it as long as you love it. Interestingly enough, you're more likely to feel that way if you know you could walk out the door tomorrow and live off your investments (or at least live off savings for a while). Like you say, wage slavery sucks.

Oh, also, re: Huntsville, UAH etc: I am a DAC/GS Army guy on Redstone Arsenal, and a real estate investor in Madison County (mostly Huntsville, but also in Madison). If you have any questions about specifics - how I am turning the local conditions into a FIRE express, etc - let me know. I am of the opinion that just being here is a massive stroke of luck, and anyone in this area who's not on a rocket sled to FI is squandering incomparable opportunity.

YAYS, congratulations to me then!

1. So far, I've found this subject matter interesting, so don't think this should be a problem. I'm looking into reading some books, do you have any suggestions? I know a ton of blogs, but seldom any books.
2. This will be difficult. Bt yes, absolutely necessary. Good point.
3. Don't have to tell me twice, it'll definitely require will, but it's doable.

And yup, that's the plan. If I like my job after I'm FI, I might consider still working. I'd definetley ask if I could work at home or something like that, or quit my job and take up woodworking, working on houses, or working on cars. I've recently realized I enjoy working with my hands A LOT, so I want to learn some kind of trade. 

Thanks for the info man :). I'm not far from Huntsville, so if I'm interested in real estate investing (way way WAY off in the future)maybe a meetup wouldn't be out of the question?

zephyr911

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2016, 09:46:58 AM »
YAYS, congratulations to me then!

1. So far, I've found this subject matter interesting, so don't think this should be a problem. I'm looking into reading some books, do you have any suggestions? I know a ton of blogs, but seldom any books.
2. This will be difficult. Bt yes, absolutely necessary. Good point.
3. Don't have to tell me twice, it'll definitely require will, but it's doable.

And yup, that's the plan. If I like my job after I'm FI, I might consider still working. I'd definetley ask if I could work at home or something like that, or quit my job and take up woodworking, working on houses, or working on cars. I've recently realized I enjoy working with my hands A LOT, so I want to learn some kind of trade. 

Thanks for the info man :). I'm not far from Huntsville, so if I'm interested in real estate investing (way way WAY off in the future)maybe a meetup wouldn't be out of the question?
1 - honestly, have not read any books on this. I'm a trial-and-error guy, aside from comparing notes here and pulling a new idea occasionally.
2 - Shooting our sacred cows can be scary, but what I'm talking about can also be as simple as just relaxing in a field, looking at the sky and asking yourself what really made you happy in the last year, and what disappointed you. For me, I've been surprised by how much I get off on evaluating investments and crafting financing plans for them. I got into it as a means to an end but now I picture doing more of it post-"retirement" - not 40 hours a week or anything insane like that, but enough to help other people along with opportunities, while enjoying the mental exercise and even the negotiating (which I always thought I hated, until I learned how to do it better). Generating side income is just icing on the cake.

You might be surprised how early and with how little cash you could get a piece of the market, but that's for you to figure out as your plans unfold. Case study, actually on the market today: $99k for a recently remodeled duplex; each side rents for $600. An owner-occupant (living in 1/2 of the property) puts as little as $5K down and lives essentially rent-free while steadily building equity with rent money (a friend of mine is planning to do something like this within a year). Or an investor puts about $18K down and profits $3-5K/yr after all costs, including debt service. Rinse and repeat.
But yes, if you want to meet up someday to talk about those kinds of things, and I'm still around, I would be glad to talk about the state of things at that time. We would like to eventually start spending more time in the PNW with my family, maybe even relocate, but I'll probably always maintain my investments here and visit periodically to maintain currency.

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2016, 02:59:59 PM »
YAYS, congratulations to me then!

1. So far, I've found this subject matter interesting, so don't think this should be a problem. I'm looking into reading some books, do you have any suggestions? I know a ton of blogs, but seldom any books.
2. This will be difficult. Bt yes, absolutely necessary. Good point.
3. Don't have to tell me twice, it'll definitely require will, but it's doable.

And yup, that's the plan. If I like my job after I'm FI, I might consider still working. I'd definetley ask if I could work at home or something like that, or quit my job and take up woodworking, working on houses, or working on cars. I've recently realized I enjoy working with my hands A LOT, so I want to learn some kind of trade. 

Thanks for the info man :). I'm not far from Huntsville, so if I'm interested in real estate investing (way way WAY off in the future)maybe a meetup wouldn't be out of the question?
1 - honestly, have not read any books on this. I'm a trial-and-error guy, aside from comparing notes here and pulling a new idea occasionally.
2 - Shooting our sacred cows can be scary, but what I'm talking about can also be as simple as just relaxing in a field, looking at the sky and asking yourself what really made you happy in the last year, and what disappointed you. For me, I've been surprised by how much I get off on evaluating investments and crafting financing plans for them. I got into it as a means to an end but now I picture doing more of it post-"retirement" - not 40 hours a week or anything insane like that, but enough to help other people along with opportunities, while enjoying the mental exercise and even the negotiating (which I always thought I hated, until I learned how to do it better). Generating side income is just icing on the cake.

You might be surprised how early and with how little cash you could get a piece of the market, but that's for you to figure out as your plans unfold. Case study, actually on the market today: $99k for a recently remodeled duplex; each side rents for $600. An owner-occupant (living in 1/2 of the property) puts as little as $5K down and lives essentially rent-free while steadily building equity with rent money (a friend of mine is planning to do something like this within a year). Or an investor puts about $18K down and profits $3-5K/yr after all costs, including debt service. Rinse and repeat.
But yes, if you want to meet up someday to talk about those kinds of things, and I'm still around, I would be glad to talk about the state of things at that time. We would like to eventually start spending more time in the PNW with my family, maybe even relocate, but I'll probably always maintain my investments here and visit periodically to maintain currency.

I was not aware the barrier of entry was so low! Obviously I'll have to wait until I'm at least 18 so I don't have to deal with all that legal crap.... But very awesome, yes!

precrime3

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Re: How can a 17 Y/O start his journey to FI?
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2016, 09:24:02 PM »
I now have a journal if anyone is interested in following. It's in my signature, as well as in the OP of this thread.