Author Topic: Helping Memory-Impaired Mother Consolidate Finances After Father's Passing  (Read 2588 times)

NextTime

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So a little background:

My 70 year-old mother had a stroke in 2.5 years ago that has left her with a very limited short term memory. Even though she is relatively healthy physically, due to the memory issues, she struggles with day to day tasks, and gets very stressed out at almost anything. She also still hasn't come to grips with her mental state and gets frustrated due to not being able to do these normal tasks. Financially she should be set for the rest of her life. Between her pension, her portion of my father's pension, and social security, she is pulling in over $5,000/month. She also has around $1.2 million in various tax advantaged accounts. And she also has a paid off house and long term care insurance. I have already automated all of her monthly bill payments, including her credit card, so she has no reason to worry about missing or late payments. Her expenses are much lower than $5k per month. She's not a big spender, so besides the RMD's, I don't see her even touching the rest of her investment money.

My father passed away in November, so now my My sister and I have to start on the enormous task of consolidating all of her financial accounts. She turned 70 last April so we just finished withdrawing her first year of RMDs which turned into a colossal task. My mother has 7 retirement accounts at four different places. To add to this, my father had 4 retirement accounts at 3 different places. Due to the fact that my sister and I both have full time jobs, and my mother wants to head to Arizona to vacation with her brother for a couple of months, her lawyer is drawing up POAs for both my sister and I. 

I plan on spending the next "who knows how long" moving these 11 accounts and consolidating them at Vanguard. I've come here for help on how to go about doing this. Do I start by opening her a traditional and roth account at Vanguard, and then call them to help move these accounts over?  How does a POA work? Do I just fax it in to Vanguard and I then have the power to do all of this?  Are there steps that I'm missing with the financial stuff or anything else (for those who have been in a similar situation)?  My goal is to get everything at Vanguard and have her investments on cruise control with the RMDs automatically coming out of her account every year (or should it by monthly?). I don't want her to worry about bills, or stressing out about how much money she needs to withdraw every year. I just want her to relax and take it easy for the rest of her life. And I want to make sure I'm doing what's best for her. \

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.








MrThatsDifferent

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I don’t know about any of this to advise, but, wouldn’t you start by calling Vanguard and talking it out with them and getting their advice to help form a plan? Then bring that plan back here to vet it?

Dicey

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Ugh. I'm struggling with this with my parent's estate. They only had accounts in four places, with far less money. Its been a total clusterfuck, as their trust was charitably described as "thinly written".

Our best support came from a very experienced CPA who is on a civic board with me. I know him to be a frugal man, and finding him after trying another CPA and an Estate Attorney* has been a godsend. He has gotten more done at a fraction of the cost (at his usual rates, no inside deal ) of the other two.

You have an advantage in that your mother is still alive. Get good professional help now. You won't regret spending her money, especially if you do it wisely.

*Not dissing Estate Attorneys. More like, "If at first you don't succeed..."

Good luck to you. This is a pain in the ass, but you are doing the right thing.

Catbert

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Call Vanguard.  They will have a vested interesting in helping you out.

My only other thoughts are to:  Get your Dad's IRAs transfereed to your mother before you move them to Vanguard.  (This assumes she is the beneficiary.)  You might consider taking this years RMD before you transfer.  The 2018 amount you have to take out is based on the value as of Dec 31st 2017.  The current trustees know the amount.  Even these two suggestions I'd run by Vanguard first.

NextTime

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My parents set up a trust a couple of years ago, so that is taken care of at least.

Three of the IRAs have been put in her name and we are going to go handle the other one today after work this afternoon.

Dicey

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My parents set up a trust a couple of years ago, so that is taken care of at least.

Three of the IRAs have been put in her name and we are going to go handle the other one today after work this afternoon.
That's what we thought, too. Might be wise to review the trust documents now.

Sibley

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With the POA, financial institutions are notorious for being hard to work with. Requiring specific forms, etc. So specifically ask what each and every single institution needs, and jump through all those hoops. Be prepared for a lot of frustration.

OP, your mother may be considered incompetent, or pretty close to it. Please make sure that she's getting assistance with daily living - cooking, cleaning, medicine mgmt, shopping, laundry, etc. She may need to be reminded to bathe or eat. Based on your description, she's likely unable to take care of herself without assistance.

NextTime

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With the POA, financial institutions are notorious for being hard to work with. Requiring specific forms, etc. So specifically ask what each and every single institution needs, and jump through all those hoops. Be prepared for a lot of frustration.

OP, your mother may be considered incompetent, or pretty close to it. Please make sure that she's getting assistance with daily living - cooking, cleaning, medicine mgmt, shopping, laundry, etc. She may need to be reminded to bathe or eat. Based on your description, she's likely unable to take care of herself without assistance.

She definitely needs some assistance, but she has no issues bathing or feeding herself. Besides us, she has a few good friends that help with reminding her about her medication and taking her places. She still drives as well. Her long term memory is preserved, but her short term is just absolute shit. And she gets seriously stressed out about things which raises her blood pressure to dangerous levels.

I'd like her to go into independent or assisted living, but she's not interested right now. I think it's still going to take her awhile to admit to herself that she needs a lot more help. She has that "don't make any life altering decisions for a year after your husband dies" mantra stuck in her head. Normally I'd say that's a good rule of thumb, however in her case it would be easier for all involved if she'd at least start checking these places out. For one thing, she'd flourish in a place like that. She's very sociable (can't get her to shut up most of the time :) ), and she hates preparing her own food. Having many potential friends a short walk away would be great for her.


NextTime

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My parents set up a trust a couple of years ago, so that is taken care of at least.

Three of the IRAs have been put in her name and we are going to go handle the other one today after work this afternoon.
That's what we thought, too. Might be wise to review the trust documents now.


We went over the trust with the attorney a few weeks ago. I'm not a legal expert, but it appears things are in order. We just need to set the beneficiaries on her accounts to the name of the trust, and then it's split 3 ways if/when she passes. Of course, if there is a better way to do it than this, please let me know. Once again, the trust was created when my father was still alive.

Sibley

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With the POA, financial institutions are notorious for being hard to work with. Requiring specific forms, etc. So specifically ask what each and every single institution needs, and jump through all those hoops. Be prepared for a lot of frustration.

OP, your mother may be considered incompetent, or pretty close to it. Please make sure that she's getting assistance with daily living - cooking, cleaning, medicine mgmt, shopping, laundry, etc. She may need to be reminded to bathe or eat. Based on your description, she's likely unable to take care of herself without assistance.

She definitely needs some assistance, but she has no issues bathing or feeding herself. Besides us, she has a few good friends that help with reminding her about her medication and taking her places. She still drives as well. Her long term memory is preserved, but her short term is just absolute shit. And she gets seriously stressed out about things which raises her blood pressure to dangerous levels.

I'd like her to go into independent or assisted living, but she's not interested right now. I think it's still going to take her awhile to admit to herself that she needs a lot more help. She has that "don't make any life altering decisions for a year after your husband dies" mantra stuck in her head. Normally I'd say that's a good rule of thumb, however in her case it would be easier for all involved if she'd at least start checking these places out. For one thing, she'd flourish in a place like that. She's very sociable (can't get her to shut up most of the time :) ), and she hates preparing her own food. Having many potential friends a short walk away would be great for her.

Well, if she won't research, doesn't mean you can't! You at least can start the process and speed things along when she's willing to start looking.

It hasn't been 6 months yet, and presumably she was married for a very long time. She may just not be able to handle any more change right now. It's not unreasonable for her to feel like her world is spinning.

chrisgermany

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Gifting her a test week at the assisted living has worked well for my DM. We framed it as "so you can make an informed decision when time has come".
She made the decision to move 5 month later.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!