Author Topic: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to  (Read 1256 times)

ontheheel

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Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« on: August 07, 2017, 09:01:27 AM »
Greetings all,

I've been a MMM reader for a few years now, generally frugal for a long time, but have been doubling down this past year. This is my first forum post, and I'm looking for help with a dilemma I'm facing.

I currently own a '99 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 189k miles on it (4.0l, 5spd). I love this car in a way that is ridiculous for a person to love an inanimate object. I get giddy every time I drive it, go into flow whenever I'm wrenching on it, and reach extreme levels of happiness whenever I'm wheeling in it (a very unmustachian thing to do). I average 21-24MPG on my commute to work (22.5 miles of on-base driving at Camp Pendleton), it's one of the cheapest cars in the world to insure, parts are ridiculously cheap and plentiful, and the car is a dream to work on. It is exceptionally rare that it needs anything fixed, anyway, and the engine should be good to at least 250k miles. In some respects, the car is very mustachian (old, cheap to insure, cheap and easy to repair, manual tranny), but in the biggest way possible, it is not (gas mileage).

This is what I'm wrestling with - I love this car and have zero desire to sell it. I've been trying to convince myself for about a year that I really need to sell it for financial reasons, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger. I bought it three years ago for $8500, and similarly spec'd models are going for about the same in my area (Jeeps tend to hang onto value for a looong time, and often begin to appreciate after a certain point). If I were to sell it, I'd probably get a 2008ish Mazda3 hatchback, and pocket the profit (if any).

My long commute will last another 18 months before we move again to an unknown destination, and I'll return to riding my bike to work as I have done in the past. In the meantime, I stand to save about $70-80/month in gas money, but am also fearful that depreciation may end up costing me more than that.

Given all of the details above, what advice or encouragement can yall offer? I'm solidly stuck, and every time I think I've made mental progress towards selling my Jeep, it's time to drive it again and I fall in love all over again. Thank you for your insight!

Austin

czr

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 09:14:41 AM »
From what you typed, don't sell it, you will regret it. Just work harder and sacrifice other things to make up for it. It is not even that much in tied up money and is barely depreciating. I regret selling a vehicle a couple years ago and will never have it back.

ditkanate

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 09:30:59 AM »
It sounds like the jeep is a legitimate source of joy for you in your life, which means dollars and cents aren't the only variable in the calculation of whether to sell.  It isn't like you are leasing a new BMW for $700 a month or something.  As long as you are aware that you are spending an extra $70-80 a month and are ok with trading that amount of money for the happiness the jeep brings you then go ahead and keep it.  If the jeep was just a mode of transportation and you didn't actually care about it all that much, then yes you could optimize a little better with a Honda Fit or what have you. 

The problem most people run into with their vehicles, is that they DON'T actually think about how much money they are flushing down the drain every month.  So they buy a brand NEW jeep for $30k or whatever, pay through the nose for it.  Pay tons of insurance.  Interest.  Gas.  And don't even realize or think about the fact that they are adding years and years to their working life for a lifestyle choice that may or may not even add any enjoyment to their life.  And they don't even use the jeep off road or do any of the things that owning a jeep rather than some other vehicle allows you to do!  They just bought it cuz it "looks cool". 

So as long as you have your eyes open to what you are doing and are ok with it, and it sounds like you are, I say keep it.  If you get to the point where the money savings means more to you than keeping it, sell it then.  If that time ever arrives.

craiglepaige

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 09:35:29 AM »
Considering you not only enjoy the vehicle tremendously but you also use it for it's intended purpose, keep it.  Cut back on something else if you so desire.
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retiringearly

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 09:44:03 AM »
Considering you not only enjoy the vehicle tremendously but you also use it for it's intended purpose, keep it.  Cut back on something else if you so desire.
Agreed.

koshtra

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 09:58:37 AM »
Hell, if you love it that much keep it. I'm one of those environmental extremists, even, and I still say keep and drive it. When the time comes to give it up, you'll move on to something more efficient. Just be sure to savor it! What gets my knickers in a twist is people who drive gas hogs for status, or because they're just not paying attention. Joy is another matter.

COEE

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 11:12:45 AM »
I get it.  '97 Cherokee owner.  230k+, 4.0L, auto.  I've had a hard time letting it go - and I don't use it much anymore... but when I do.  I fall back in love. 

Mine needs a bit of work to make nice again, but the motor and tranny are still going strong with no end in sight.  Those jeeps are just so solid. 

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 11:16:14 AM »
Keep the Jee[!
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dpc

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 12:25:41 PM »
You need to actually run the numbers.

You're doing most things right: older age, no loan, DIY maintenence, cheap insurance. It may be cheaper to keep the Jeep.

You're only going to by driving it high miles for 18 months. MPG won't be a big $ driver when you switch to the bike commute.

MPG: With the Jeep you're gonna burn an extra $1,440 in gas over 18 mos.

Is a different car going to add more or less cost than that?
Taxes: In my state you'd run about $600 to get a tag on the new car.
Maintenence: will this go up?
Depreciation: It's unusual for a vehicle to not depreciate, but you may have the odd case. Compare prices on your target vehicle a few years apart. See how much they drop.
Opportunity cost: Is it worth buying a lower value vehicle and investing the difference?


Yea, a Jeep isn't the most mustacian vehicle, but I'm also sitting on an older Malibu at 22mpg. It doesn't get driven many miles, insurance is cheap, and I do work my self. For me it works out better to keep the malibu thru it's useful life, and be more efficient on the next purchase. The cost to switch eats up any fuel savings over the medium-term.

Then see what the real cost is, and if that's worth the value you get for it.


acroy

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 12:55:41 PM »
Keep it!
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JLee

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 01:08:48 PM »
I wouldn't sell it.  There's more to life than extracting every last dollar from your budget.

I am also biased and have similar feelings about my cars.

fluffmuffin

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 01:15:42 PM »
I get it.  '97 Cherokee owner.  230k+, 4.0L, auto.  I've had a hard time letting it go - and I don't use it much anymore... but when I do.  I fall back in love. 

Mine needs a bit of work to make nice again, but the motor and tranny are still going strong with no end in sight.  Those jeeps are just so solid.

My first car was my dad's old 1998 Cherokee. He gave it to me in 2005 with 180k miles and I drove it through 230k; I think the most I ever spent on it at a time was $700. I was given a new-to-me-Liberty when I graduated from college in 2010, and Dad sold the Cherokee to the neighbor's kid for like $500. The neighbor's kid put another 100,000 miles on it, including two cross-country road trips. Last year the neighbor kid decided to upgrade and gave the Cherokee back to my dad. That old soldier is chugging along with 330,000 miles on the odometer. It will probably outlast all of us.

I still miss that car and if the gas mileage weren't so awful, I'd take it back. If my Liberty dies before I can afford a Leaf or similar tree-hugger car, I'm back in the Cherokee...if I can pry it back out of my dad's hands, since he's remembered what an awesome car it is and doesn't want to give it up again.

Laura33

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 01:19:03 PM »
You need to actually run the numbers.

You're doing most things right: older age, no loan, DIY maintenence, cheap insurance. It may be cheaper to keep the Jeep.

You're only going to by driving it high miles for 18 months. MPG won't be a big $ driver when you switch to the bike commute.

MPG: With the Jeep you're gonna burn an extra $1,440 in gas over 18 mos.

Is a different car going to add more or less cost than that?
Taxes: In my state you'd run about $600 to get a tag on the new car.
Maintenence: will this go up?
Depreciation: It's unusual for a vehicle to not depreciate, but you may have the odd case. Compare prices on your target vehicle a few years apart. See how much they drop.
Opportunity cost: Is it worth buying a lower value vehicle and investing the difference?

And to add to this:  don't forget any delta in insurance costs.

Then, once you've figured out the opportunity cost, figure out how much longer will you need to work if you keep the Jeep vs. trade it in for the Mazda. 

Is your love for this Jeep worth working that much longer?  There's your answer.
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ontheheel

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 03:04:03 PM »
Thanks to everyone for all the responses.

Doing the math (difference on insurance, gas, depreciation), if I were to buy a Mazda3 for $5500 (plus tax) and sell my jeep for somewhere around $8000-8500, invest the profit and invest the monthly savings (taking into account the bike will take over in 18 months), I'd end up with around $2k extra over the next five years, or about $33/mo on average. It's hard to project much further out than that, because I have no idea what maintenance will look like on either vehicle, but 5 years is a bit easier time horizon to see.

At a roughly 100k annual income, that takes about a week to make.

The nearly universal encouragement to keep it was not what I was expecting, and running the numbers a little more closely it's becoming a harder sell (no pun intended).

Starting to lean more towards hanging on to it, possibly selling and investing the total once we make our next move, without replacing it. My wife has a 2004 Honda Odyssey that we just bought this summer, and that could become our jack-of-all-trades transportation solution (outside of biking locally).

I keep digging for more room in the budget for big impact items, and thought this would be one, but it looks like it's not as big of an impact as I had originally thought.

Thank you again to everyone - and if anyone has more to add or edit, I certainly welcome it!

tralfamadorian

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 04:35:58 PM »
I sold my '99 Jeep almost ten years ago and I still regret it.  :(  It brings you joy and the delta is not large; keep it!

davisgang90

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2017, 03:36:50 AM »
Keep it!  Love my 2012 Wrangler Unlimited.
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former player

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2017, 04:00:49 AM »
$33 a month for a hobby that brings joy is a steal.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

Villanelle

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2017, 04:09:52 AM »
If you are in a debt situation, you need to sell it.  Otherwise, consider it a fairly inexpensive hobby.

Would you consider a one-way bike commute?  Perhaps call it your daily PT?  Monday morning you drive to work with the bike in the Jeep, and bike home.  Tuesday, you bike in and drive home.  W drive and bike, Th bike and drive, etc.   Even if you only manage it 3 days a week, that's not insignificant. This might allow you to find some additional saving on your commute, while allowing you to keep your beloved Jeep. 


ontheheel

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 07:25:50 AM »
If you are in a debt situation, you need to sell it.  Otherwise, consider it a fairly inexpensive hobby.

Would you consider a one-way bike commute?  Perhaps call it your daily PT?  Monday morning you drive to work with the bike in the Jeep, and bike home.  Tuesday, you bike in and drive home.  W drive and bike, Th bike and drive, etc.   Even if you only manage it 3 days a week, that's not insignificant. This might allow you to find some additional saving on your commute, while allowing you to keep your beloved Jeep.

Only debt we have is mortgage on a rental property in Texas that is cash flowing nicely. We still have some remaining debt from my wife's undergrad loan, which is at 2.625% (roughly equal with long-term inflation), and I can't bring myself to pay an extra dime on it. No credit cards or cars or anything like that.

Regarding PT, I seriously considered that option when we moved out here, but when I saw the actual route, I decided against it. It's not just long - it's on narrow, windy roads with no shoulder and blind curves and 50mph speed limit. It's got over 1500 feet of climbing and 1500 feet of downhill. No problem, I thought, I'll get an electric motor and power through it...until I noticed the signs covering a major portion of the route that strictly and expressly forbid bicycles (because of the danger I just mentioned - there is actually a curve on a hillside literally called "dead man's curve" where Marines are semi-regularly killed in car accidents).

When we moved here, we had no idea where I would be working on this very large base (and also knew that it would change halfway through my tour), so we picked the best house on base that we rated and called it a day. I've been trying to convince my wife to move into a small house or condo in San Clemente (north of base - close enough to bike), and have seen some traction lately, although that would be our fourth move in three years (and eighth in nine years), plus another one coming up, making her not terribly keen on volunteering for a move. The numbers would work well as long as we found a cheap enough place (San Clemente is one of the most expensive places to live in the country), so I'm continuing to push for it.

Villanelle

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 02:35:12 AM »
If you are in a debt situation, you need to sell it.  Otherwise, consider it a fairly inexpensive hobby.

Would you consider a one-way bike commute?  Perhaps call it your daily PT?  Monday morning you drive to work with the bike in the Jeep, and bike home.  Tuesday, you bike in and drive home.  W drive and bike, Th bike and drive, etc.   Even if you only manage it 3 days a week, that's not insignificant. This might allow you to find some additional saving on your commute, while allowing you to keep your beloved Jeep.

Only debt we have is mortgage on a rental property in Texas that is cash flowing nicely. We still have some remaining debt from my wife's undergrad loan, which is at 2.625% (roughly equal with long-term inflation), and I can't bring myself to pay an extra dime on it. No credit cards or cars or anything like that.

Regarding PT, I seriously considered that option when we moved out here, but when I saw the actual route, I decided against it. It's not just long - it's on narrow, windy roads with no shoulder and blind curves and 50mph speed limit. It's got over 1500 feet of climbing and 1500 feet of downhill. No problem, I thought, I'll get an electric motor and power through it...until I noticed the signs covering a major portion of the route that strictly and expressly forbid bicycles (because of the danger I just mentioned - there is actually a curve on a hillside literally called "dead man's curve" where Marines are semi-regularly killed in car accidents).

When we moved here, we had no idea where I would be working on this very large base (and also knew that it would change halfway through my tour), so we picked the best house on base that we rated and called it a day. I've been trying to convince my wife to move into a small house or condo in San Clemente (north of base - close enough to bike), and have seen some traction lately, although that would be our fourth move in three years (and eighth in nine years), plus another one coming up, making her not terribly keen on volunteering for a move. The numbers would work well as long as we found a cheap enough place (San Clemente is one of the most expensive places to live in the country), so I'm continuing to push for it.

It would have to be a huge, huge, huge savings to make me willing to move when it wasn't required by an actual PCS.  Is there a reason beyond the commute expense?  What is your commute like as far as time?  Moving isn't free, even if you DIY (truck rental, boxes--although in a military community those are often easy to pick up for free, beer and pizza for friends, and the odds and ends that you usually end up having to buy for a new place).  And would all your stuff fit in that "small house or condo"?  If you were in a financial emergency, I could understand it, and if you guys decide it works for you, that's great.  But I fully understand her not wanting to do an optional move when there are so many required moves.

Goldielocks

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 10:10:12 AM »
Greetings all,

I've been a MMM reader for a few years now, generally frugal for a long time, but have been doubling down this past year. This is my first forum post, and I'm looking for help with a dilemma I'm facing.

I currently own a '99 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 189k miles on it (4.0l, 5spd). I love this car in a way that is ridiculous for a person to love an inanimate object. I get giddy every time I drive it, go into flow whenever I'm wrenching on it, and reach extreme levels of happiness whenever I'm wheeling in it (a very unmustachian thing to do). I average 21-24MPG on my commute to work (22.5 miles of on-base driving at Camp Pendleton), it's one of the cheapest cars in the world to insure, parts are ridiculously cheap and plentiful, and the car is a dream to work on. It is exceptionally rare that it needs anything fixed, anyway, and the engine should be good to at least 250k miles. In some respects, the car is very mustachian (old, cheap to insure, cheap and easy to repair, manual tranny), but in the biggest way possible, it is not (gas mileage).

This is what I'm wrestling with - I love this car and have zero desire to sell it. I've been trying to convince myself for about a year that I really need to sell it for financial reasons, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger. I bought it three years ago for $8500, and similarly spec'd models are going for about the same in my area (Jeeps tend to hang onto value for a looong time, and often begin to appreciate after a certain point). If I were to sell it, I'd probably get a 2008ish Mazda3 hatchback, and pocket the profit (if any).

My long commute will last another 18 months before we move again to an unknown destination, and I'll return to riding my bike to work as I have done in the past. In the meantime, I stand to save about $70-80/month in gas money, but am also fearful that depreciation may end up costing me more than that.

Given all of the details above, what advice or encouragement can yall offer? I'm solidly stuck, and every time I think I've made mental progress towards selling my Jeep, it's time to drive it again and I fall in love all over again. Thank you for your insight!

Austin

I have a mazda3, 2006, and average 21-23 MPG, with a mix of city and highway (and stop and go) driving.   Unless you are only pure 60 MPH highway driving with no stops, you will not be saving on fuel.

Why is the Jeep so expensive to you?  Why does $3000 over 5 years actually matter?    I would think that saving $50 per month in other expenses is easier than selling a Jeep and buying a Mazda, and you would not get joy from it.

Also, here, you would definitely not get the price difference that you are indicating between these cars, after the selling expenses and maintenance are taken into consideration, but it is your market, not mine.

JLee

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 04:21:22 PM »
Greetings all,

I've been a MMM reader for a few years now, generally frugal for a long time, but have been doubling down this past year. This is my first forum post, and I'm looking for help with a dilemma I'm facing.

I currently own a '99 Jeep Wrangler Sport with 189k miles on it (4.0l, 5spd). I love this car in a way that is ridiculous for a person to love an inanimate object. I get giddy every time I drive it, go into flow whenever I'm wrenching on it, and reach extreme levels of happiness whenever I'm wheeling in it (a very unmustachian thing to do). I average 21-24MPG on my commute to work (22.5 miles of on-base driving at Camp Pendleton), it's one of the cheapest cars in the world to insure, parts are ridiculously cheap and plentiful, and the car is a dream to work on. It is exceptionally rare that it needs anything fixed, anyway, and the engine should be good to at least 250k miles. In some respects, the car is very mustachian (old, cheap to insure, cheap and easy to repair, manual tranny), but in the biggest way possible, it is not (gas mileage).

This is what I'm wrestling with - I love this car and have zero desire to sell it. I've been trying to convince myself for about a year that I really need to sell it for financial reasons, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger. I bought it three years ago for $8500, and similarly spec'd models are going for about the same in my area (Jeeps tend to hang onto value for a looong time, and often begin to appreciate after a certain point). If I were to sell it, I'd probably get a 2008ish Mazda3 hatchback, and pocket the profit (if any).

My long commute will last another 18 months before we move again to an unknown destination, and I'll return to riding my bike to work as I have done in the past. In the meantime, I stand to save about $70-80/month in gas money, but am also fearful that depreciation may end up costing me more than that.

Given all of the details above, what advice or encouragement can yall offer? I'm solidly stuck, and every time I think I've made mental progress towards selling my Jeep, it's time to drive it again and I fall in love all over again. Thank you for your insight!

Austin

I have a mazda3, 2006, and average 21-23 MPG, with a mix of city and highway (and stop and go) driving.   Unless you are only pure 60 MPH highway driving with no stops, you will not be saving on fuel.

Why is the Jeep so expensive to you?  Why does $3000 over 5 years actually matter?    I would think that saving $50 per month in other expenses is easier than selling a Jeep and buying a Mazda, and you would not get joy from it.

Also, here, you would definitely not get the price difference that you are indicating between these cars, after the selling expenses and maintenance are taken into consideration, but it is your market, not mine.

I would not be surprised if any savings were gone after depreciation of an economy car vs a Wrangler.  Wranglers hold value ridiculously well.

DangleStash

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Re: Help with my Jeep - should sell...reeealy don't want to
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2017, 01:31:10 PM »
Owned a wrangler - only got rid of it because it was a lemon.

KEEP THE JEEP!!!!!

That is all.
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