Hate my job. Am I in a position for FU? What to do

[tipster350]

I am in a job that is soul-crushing, has nonstop stress, and requires long hours. Every day is difficult and the work environment is horrible. I am skating on thin ice in my position.

The situation is that I am 55 years old, not FI. I have about $700k, most in retirement funds.  FI for me is just over the 1 mil mark.

I have thought about quitting without another job. It's that bad. Of course they could fire me and take away the choice. I have never been fired before, don't know how I would handle that.

Is it advisable to quit without another job in my situation? I worry about age discrimination. I have a good resume, but there is the age issue. But I also worry about my health and well-being.

I am looking for other jobs.

I can cut back somewhat on expenses but I rent and have a certain level of fixed expenses that would be hard to eliminate at this time.

[ooeei]

What are your current expenses?  Is there a way to trim them down if you did decide to quit?  If FI is $1,000,000 for you, maybe if you trim your expenses it's only $700,000.   Then you can focus on finding a job that covers your non-essential expenses.

I'm thinking things like commuting, restaurants, cable TV, smartphone bill, expensive groceries.  Posting a budget might help everyone give you more targeted advise.

As far as age discrimination, I guess it depends on your job.  My dad got plenty of job offers after 55, came really close to taking one too.  For a "typical" person, that company can still get 10 years out of you at your prime of experience.  If you were 63 I think it might be different.

[tipster350]

My expenses are about $55k a year. I can reduce to about $48k in the short term.

I am really looking for all perspectives, not just validation. What I want to do and what is the best course of action in the big picture may be two different things.

I don't have time to post a budget right now but there are items I can cut. I don't have cable, I don't have a lot of the typical fluff that most have, but there is fluff. I can cut back on going out to eat, some expensive social plans, the food I buy, etc.

[spokey doke]

Since I'm here I'll go ahead and do what others will inevitably do, and ask for more details, as the questions you pose are so context dependent...like what field you are in, where you live, whether you are open to moving for another job or to reduce your COL.

I'll also sympathize, as the workplace stress combined with the anxiety about finances are quite the double-whammy...that is no fun.

I'm closer to FI that you are and don't face daily high stress but still am hating my job, and it is a daily battle coming to terms with deciding to jump ship.  I think quitting just to get off that particular treadmill (deciding to quit or not) makes quitting worth it on its own...best of luck.

[neo von retorch]

Have you gone to SSA.gov and calculated your Social Security?

By itself, $700k is only enough for a $28k/year life style. If you could cut your expenses to $40k, social security might make up the deficit for you in 7-10 years.

[tipster350]

Thanks everyone so far. I will post more details later but here are some quick replies to questions raised.

I can't move - just moved to where I am a year ago because of aging, sick family. There are no other family members to count on in this, so no one to ask for help.

I am in healthcare, currently the insurance end but I have lots of experience in program/project management and product management in healthcare.

My FI number takes future SS and a very small pension at 65 into consideration.

So I could I guess get another, lower stress job and let my current funds grow, adding less to the stash, delaying full retirement.

[Tom Bri]

$700K is plenty for low COL places and your expenses are low. Sounds like neither is completely true for you.
One way or another, it also sounds like you are in for some major changes soon. Either the job becomes intolerable and you have to leave for you health and sanity, or you get fired (the bad kind of fire).
700,000 divided by the expected 25-years remaining in your life is still $25,000, which is enough to scrape by on in lower COL places. This doesn't even take into account social security or any investment gains. So, you could do it, if you went full-bore mustachian and cut expenses to the bone.
I am in a similar place, same age as you. My worry is health care costs as I age, possible changes in SS/medical insurance laws, and 'the unexpected'. So I easily see why you don't want to get out yet.

Is the income worth staying for?

Since you are currently employed, which looks good on a resume, how hard will it be finding similar jobs in your field? You said it might be hard due to age. Is this a physical job, or a mental one? I recently applied for 3 positions and was offered all three, in my field age isn't a barrier. I have heard that some jobs in high-tech are severely biased against older people, but not many others are. I'd suggest shooting off resumes for any position that is remotely in your area, now, while you still have a job. Unemployed older folks have it tough, but in my experience, people with a job in hand have some leeway when searching.

Good luck!

***added after reading the new responses*** I see now you mentioned you are in health care/insurance. Not sure why age would be a barrier in this field. Since moving very far isn't an option for you, that leaves out opportunities for a nation-wide job hunt.

[DebtFreeBy25]

How much of your assets are liquid or could easily converted? You're not going to want to tap your retirement funds for this. I recommend in your situation that you have at least two years of expenses or about $100k available.

Are you able to interview for and hopefully accept another position if you stay at your current job? I recently had to say FU to my last employer because at 60/hrs a week and 50%+ travel it had become impossible for me to find another job. When I looked at the facts, chances were good that if I didn't quit I would be stuck in the same miserable position until the company laid me off or forced me out. Note that I tried to switch jobs both within and outside of the company for six months before I quit. I also had two years gross salary in liquid assets which I admit is overkill.

What's your potential to pick up freelance or contract work? Given $48k/year in expenses, it would be difficult to pay your bills entirely with side work, but any income helps.

What's your plan for medical insurance? This is one of the most expensive and frustrating issues that someone without a traditional job faces. If you aren't confident that you can find another traditional job quickly, you need to factor health insurance costs into your FU calculation.

[Matumba]

Stop giving a fuck at work but don't quit.  If you quit,  you won't get anything.  If you are laid off or fired,  you'll get unemployment insurance and probably a severance package.

Be polite at work,  but don't let them stress you out.  Say "fuck you" with your actions,  not your words.

[Runrooster]

700k will turn into 1200k at 4.5% real return for 12 years. So you don't have to save more, just cover your expenses for that time.  Getting a lower stress daytime job is important because your evening "job" taking care of parents will not get less stressful any time soon.

[DebtFreeBy25]

Stop giving a fuck at work but don't quit.  If you quit,  you won't get anything.  If you are laid off or fired,  you'll get unemployment insurance and probably a severance package.

Be polite at work,  but don't let them stress you out.  Say "fuck you" with your actions,  not your words.

If you're laid off, you would be eligible for unemployment. However, unemployment is likely to cover only a fraction of your expenses. Any income you earn while on unemployment counts against your weekly benefit amount. And to state the obvious, if you're collecting unemployment, you'll have to represent yourself as unemployed while job hunting (versus freelance or self-employed).

Severance packages seem to be becoming increasing uncommon. Unless you are part of a "buy out" program, it is unlikely you will see any payout beyond your PTO and occasionally sick time. If you're fired for cause, you would be ineligible for unemployment. You can appeal this decision, but the burden of proof is on you to show that your employer did not have just cause to terminate you. Depending on your circumstances that may be a possibility, but it's definitely a stressful experience. (My mom has fought for and won unemployment benefits after being terminated.)

[AZDude]

You are close to FI, but if your money is in retirement accounts, then you might as well keep working for four more years, since converting to a roth and leaving it there for 5 years would put you at 0 years old.

Your goal should be 4 more years and then off the treadmill forever. As to whether you should quite right now, ask yourself the question of how employable you are. Be honest. What are the chances you land a decent job doing project management and what are the chances you end up a Walmart greeter?

[MrGreen]

Stop giving a fuck at work but don't quit.  If you quit,  you won't get anything.  If you are laid off or fired,  you'll get unemployment insurance and probably a severance package.

Be polite at work,  but don't let them stress you out.  Say "fuck you" with your actions,  not your words.

I agree with this sentiment but some folks have trouble doing this. My wife can't not care, it's just not in her DNA.

[Cassie]

I would look for another job while still working since you will be more desirable to an employer if you have a job and  the age discrimination can be real. Could you work p.t. and with your $ you have saved still live the life you want?

[Papa bear]

Keep the job and start looking for a new one immediately.  Become and active candidate. Start talking with third party recruiters and applying to new jobs.  You're in an industry that is still in great need for people on the payer side of healthcare. 

Anyone at your current job that you can use as a reference without jeopardizing your current gig?  Get that lined up too. 

Ready go!


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[former player]

Do you have any entitlement to sick pay?  You sound seriously stressed and anxious to me, and a period off work with pay might help.  If you are then fired, it might be for a legally ineligible reason, such as your disability.

Other than that, I agree with Matumba.  Fulfil the letter of your employment obligations but stop caring about anything outside of those obligations, or what management or co-workers think of you.

[Runrooster]

I wonder how terrible it would be to discuss the stress with your boss?  If we ask for raises and promotions, can she ask to take a step down or demote responsibility with a drop in pay?  If it helps, she can site her issues at home.  I'm sure she's happy to be be nearby and help more, but say she underestimated how much extra work it would be?  I doubt her boss is completely oblivious?  Better to get out ahead of it.

[tipster350]

There are many great points made. Every response is valuable and has helped me move along in my thinking. I will try to answer/comment on a lot of what was said.

I need to leave this employer. It is not a fit for me. The environment is toxic, the job has been a clusterf* since Day 1 (been there 15 months) and everyone is expected to work round the clock at all salary levels. I need to find another employer. I do need a break, a long one, to recover from the stress that has been this job plus all that has been going on in my life. I have never been an anxious person, but this period of my life has been brutal, and it's taking it's toll on me. I will try to hold on at work because I agree that being employed is better, but I am worried about the effect of all of this stress on my health. And if my schedule picks up again to the point that looking for a job and interviewing is an impossibility because of nonstop meetings and travel, I might have to quit.

Fortunately, I have a very good background with in-demand skills and knowledge. Hopefully that will counterbalance some of the potential age discrimination challenges.

My original plan was to tough it out at this employer no matter what, to get to the FI finish line. The money is good. But it is clear that I cannot hold on for another 4-5 years.

I could, as mentioned on this thread: work part time, get a less stressful job, get another similar job, or quit. Right now I am leaning towards a less stressful job that I will be able to do easily and in an environment where working the standard 40 hours most of the time is possible. This would delay FI, but make it more do-able and more sane given my other family responsibilities and need to take care of my own life.

I am clear about my expenses and what FI needs to look like for me. I can't box myself into an extreme MMM retirement at $25k per year. I'm tied to this area for family reasons, which is above average COL. I have seen plenty of worst case scenarios, and know what can happen. I need enough money to cover my healthcare needs, and to be able to handle the curve balls that inevitably happen costing $$$. Heck, just seeing how expensive my mother's Depends are gives me great pause for my future budget. This is not the type of expense a young person thinks they will ever have.

In the meantime, I need to manage my stress. I only care about what my boss and coworkers think to the point that it affects my employment status, which as I have mentioned, is not solid. But I need to be more zen about it because aside from trying my best within reason, a lot of it is out of my control. I won't work any more hours than I'm already working, and I know that counts against me, but I know my limits and I am already past them.

[coolistdude]

There are many great points made. Every response is valuable and has helped me move along in my thinking. I will try to answer/comment on a lot of what was said.

I need to leave this employer. It is not a fit for me. The environment is toxic, the job has been a clusterf* since Day 1 (been there 15 months) and everyone is expected to work round the clock at all salary levels. I need to find another employer. I do need a break, a long one, to recover from the stress that has been this job plus all that has been going on in my life. I have never been an anxious person, but this period of my life has been brutal, and it's taking it's toll on me. I will try to hold on at work because I agree that being employed is better, but I am worried about the effect of all of this stress on my health. And if my schedule picks up again to the point that looking for a job and interviewing is an impossibility because of nonstop meetings and travel, I might have to quit.

Fortunately, I have a very good background with in-demand skills and knowledge. Hopefully that will counterbalance some of the potential age discrimination challenges.

My original plan was to tough it out at this employer no matter what, to get to the FI finish line. The money is good. But it is clear that I cannot hold on for another 4-5 years.

I could, as mentioned on this thread: work part time, get a less stressful job, get another similar job, or quit. Right now I am leaning towards a less stressful job that I will be able to do easily and in an environment where working the standard 40 hours most of the time is possible. This would delay FI, but make it more do-able and more sane given my other family responsibilities and need to take care of my own life.

I am clear about my expenses and what FI needs to look like for me. I can't box myself into an extreme MMM retirement at $25k per year. I'm tied to this area for family reasons, which is above average COL. I have seen plenty of worst case scenarios, and know what can happen. I need enough money to cover my healthcare needs, and to be able to handle the curve balls that inevitably happen costing $$$. Heck, just seeing how expensive my mother's Depends are gives me great pause for my future budget. This is not the type of expense a young person thinks they will ever have.

In the meantime, I need to manage my stress. I only care about what my boss and coworkers think to the point that it affects my employment status, which as I have mentioned, is not solid. But I need to be more zen about it because aside from trying my best within reason, a lot of it is out of my control. I won't work any more hours than I'm already working, and I know that counts against me, but I know my limits and I am already past them.

When I needed to get out of a bad work environment, a pistol was fired in my mind and my MO became "damned if I don't". Give yourself permission to become proactive and pursue other opportunities. It sounds like turnover may be an issue at your current employment. If you have made friends who departed and are happier, maybe they can line up a job for you? It's nice to start a new job with a friend.

[dess1313]

Start looking for a new job now.  get your resume out, get some job interviews, even if its lower wage, as long as its a better fit/less stress, run for it!  If you can find a new job, its easy to move onwards and outwards and leave this toxic work place behind you

[Villanelle]

It's really a question of which is more important to you--getting out of this job ASAP at the cost of possibly working a year or more longer, or sticking it out a bit in an awful job but possibly leaving the workforce a year or two sooner.

In your shoes, I would be applying to everything, now, so that I could be making progress, while taking the current job one day at at time.  I might set a hard "allowed to quit no matter what" date about 6 months out, so that I had a light at the end of the tunnel, but if I did that, then a month or so before I would basically apply to All the Jobs, even service industry and retail, so that when I quit my job I would have some income and would be eating away at my stache at a much slower rate. 

You mention needing a break, but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.  Are you saying that if you got a new job tomorrow, you wouldn't want or be able to start because you need this break?  Are we talking a week or two, or several months?  You can probably engineer a break of a week or two between jobs, but more than that is unlikely. 

[LeRainDrop]

I would recommend that you start looking for a new job very actively.  At the same time, pick a deadline by which you will leave this toxic job, whether you have your next job lined up or not.  Knowing there is an outside end date may help you mentally to slog through the daily crap at your current job.  (I say this as someone who put up with a highly toxic, long-hours job for about two years before the bully-partner finally resigned, and I regret not leaving while I was going through hell.  As you note, that stress takes a very real and serious toll on your health.)