Author Topic: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*  (Read 3207 times)

Easye418

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Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« on: September 13, 2016, 07:24:46 PM »
All,

I got a job offer tonight for $110k + 15% bonus (doesn't start till 2017) vs $85k + 10% (on track to make minimal if anything).

The recruiter called me and said "you are underpaid".  I said "I know, is $110k unreal to ask for?".  Well lo and behold, $110k is on the job offer.

I feel like the company gave me exactly what I was asking however do I have room to negotiate higher?  I was thinking maybe going to $120k, but do I want to push my luck.

CPG Finance, MBA, ~5 years experience.  Manager level.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 07:37:43 AM by Easye418 »

Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2016, 07:28:58 PM »
How did you approach this going into the interview?  Did you give them a number you would make a move for?  Was it the recruiter who gave them that information?  Is it third party or internal recruiter?

You have more than just tonight. Tell them you need a few days to think. 

It usually doesn't hurt to ask for more.  I've seen it backfire a handful of times but most of the time it's not a big deal. 


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Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2016, 07:32:08 PM »
How did you approach this going into the interview?  Did you give them a number you would make a move for?  Was it the recruiter who gave them that information?  Is it third party or internal recruiter?

You have more than just tonight. Tell them you need a few days to think. 

It usually doesn't hurt to ask for more.  I've seen it backfire a handful of times but most of the time it's not a big deal. 


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Money was never brought up on the actual interview.  I assume the 3rd party recruiter told them that is what I said.  They want to talk tomorrow but I want to pitch it right and I want the job first and foremost. 

I know I have more than tonight, but the VP of HR is going to reach out to discuss tomorrow and I want to be able to negotiate or accept the position.

aperture

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2016, 07:34:35 PM »
I think if you already opened by naming a number and they met it, you now have to negotiate over other benefits - paid time off, benefits etc.  Often your boss has little power over giving you more benefits, but they can sometimes start your employment date a few weeks before you are actually supposed to show up. That can buy you a one time paid vacation that can be a nice starting bonus.

Agree we need more info.

Papa bear

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Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2016, 07:37:08 PM »
Ok. So if the 3rd party recruiter gave your salary expectations, negotiate away. It's in both of your best interests to get the most.  Talk the the recruiter and see if they know how much room they have to move. They might have more info than they gave on the front end.

Do you have all benefit info? Vacation? Sign on bonus info?  What else do you need? 

Edited for auto correct

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Rufus.T.Firefly

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2016, 07:38:10 PM »
A possible negotiation tactic: "I am really honored by your job offer and in many ways this sounds like an excellent fit. However, I was really hoping to receive an offer for 120K based on _______."

Then let the silence set in. They will either balk or go with it. If you sense they're struggling to meet the 120K mark, you could negotiate the raise on a timeline. For example, you could offer to take 110K with an agreed upon raise in 6 or 12 months. Obviously you're trusting them to stick to their word, but I have seen this work before.

A second tactic is to take the money and negotiate something else - time off, benefits, etc.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2016, 07:41:05 PM »
The recruiter called me and said "you are underpaid".  I said "I know, is $110k unreal to ask for?".  Well lo and behold, $110k is on the job offer.

Hm, it sounds to me like your recruiter passed along your requested salary and the potential employer accepted it.  In that case, the employer would likely be annoyed if you tried to negotiate a higher amount.  From their viewpoint, you asked for $110k and they gave you $110k.

On the other hand, if your recruiter assures you that they never indicated your desired salary to the potential employer, then you certainly can negotiate for more without risking the same tension.  It would be as simple as saying that you're very excited about the opportunity and believe that it is worth $X salary plus the 15% bonus.  If they then surprise you and say, "oh, your recruiter said $110k," you can respond with something like, "that's what I was originally thinking, but after learning more about the role and responsibilities of this position through the interview process, I think $X is fair."

Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 07:53:54 PM »
The recruiter called me and said "you are underpaid".  I said "I know, is $110k unreal to ask for?".  Well lo and behold, $110k is on the job offer.

Hm, it sounds to me like your recruiter passed along your requested salary and the potential employer accepted it.  In that case, the employer would likely be annoyed if you tried to negotiate a higher amount.  From their viewpoint, you asked for $110k and they gave you $110k.

On the other hand, if your recruiter assures you that they never indicated your desired salary to the potential employer, then you certainly can negotiate for more without risking the same tension.  It would be as simple as saying that you're very excited about the opportunity and believe that it is worth $X salary plus the 15% bonus.  If they then surprise you and say, "oh, your recruiter said $110k," you can respond with something like, "that's what I was originally thinking, but after learning more about the role and responsibilities of this position through the interview process, I think $X is fair."

Even if the recruiter passed along the info, it was never a negotiated rate and it's a third party person.  Blame the recruiter!  It happens all the time and makes us grumpy!


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Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2016, 07:58:19 PM »
I don't have PTO days yet, no sign on bonus in the offer, and a 4% 401k match (vested immediately) (vs 3% at my company now).

I am tossed up which way to go.  I am almost certain that the number was passed on from the recruiter.  It is a 29% bump from my current position + the incremental 5% to bonus.

I know that they really liked me as a candidate as my recruiter (3rd party again) said I nailed it with all 3 of them and they loved the energy, willingness to work, and background that I can bring.  I feel like I can leverage that, but I would seriously shoot myself if they rescinded.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:03:41 PM by Easye418 »

Papa bear

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Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 08:04:22 PM »
And remember, your recruiter is probably getting 25-30% of your starting salary as a fee. There's some cash wiggle room here.

Either way you're in a great position. Congrats on the offer!

Edited for phone typos and fat fingers.
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:10:30 PM by Papa bear »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2016, 08:05:16 PM »
Papa bear, that's a good point.  As long as you are pleasant and professional in your meeting, I think you will be fine.  I also second the advice that after requesting the higher salary and briefly summarizing why, you stop talking.  No matter how uncomfortable the silence makes you; it's the employer's turn to respond to your request without you softening it for them.

Kakashi

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2016, 08:10:24 PM »
You wanted $110K, you got $110K.  Now you want more.  Studies show that if an offer is accepted too fast, people are less happy then if they "seems" tougher to get.  This is what is happening.  You aren't happy because your offer was accepted too fast, thinking possibly they might've agreed to more.  It's the "what if" possibility that is making you dissatisfied.  In reality, you were already thinking $110K was a stretch, and should be ecstatic that it was accepted. 

This is about business ethics.  You are a business person.  Pretend you are the employer.  You receive a request $110K.  Perhaps you goto your CFO or whatever and discuss and agree that you would like this person to come on board so you give them their full ask.  Now they want more.  How would you respond? 

LeRainDrop

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2016, 08:13:03 PM »
Here's some advice on this topic from Alison Green at her Ask A Manager blog.  I'd recommend you read the post and also the comments for other tips.  http://www.askamanager.org/2012/07/what-to-say-when-you-negotiate-salary.html

From Alison's comments, here are a couple other good phrases she suggests:

     *  Do you have any flexibility on the salary? Id had something closer to $X in mind.

     *  If you were able to do $X, Id be thrilled to accept. (This works best when X isnt too far off their original offer.)

In response to your worry that the employer might rescind their offer, see Alison's point #7 in this article:  http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2014/01/15/dont-make-these-8-mistakes-when-negotiating-salary

GOOD LUCK!!!

Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2016, 08:14:40 PM »
You wanted $110K, you got $110K.  Now you want more.  Studies show that if an offer is accepted too fast, people are less happy then if they "seems" tougher to get.  This is what is happening.  You aren't happy because your offer was accepted too fast, thinking possibly they might've agreed to more.  It's the "what if" possibility that is making you dissatisfied.  In reality, you were already thinking $110K was a stretch, and should be ecstatic that it was accepted. 

This is about business ethics.  You are a business person.  Pretend you are the employer.  You receive a request $110K.  Perhaps you goto your CFO or whatever and discuss and agree that you would like this person to come on board so you give them their full ask.  Now they want more.  How would you respond?

Except the OP (candidate) did not propose that salary to the client.  The recruiter did. Your recruiter can continue to negotiate for the candidate and client (they have dual responsibility here) or you can do it yourself on your own terms. Again, your recruiter will probably be grumpy because they are losing control of the deal, but this is your job.


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Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2016, 08:20:33 PM »
So many good points....

I would be pleasant if I negotiated and I like that "is there flexibility in the salary?".


But I am nervous about bringing it up!!!!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:23:25 PM by Easye418 »

Kakashi

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2016, 08:26:30 PM »
This is probably what went down:

OP to recruiter: "Is $110K unreal to ask for?"
Company to recruiter: "We like OP, what do you think he wants for compensation"
Recruiter to company: "He was asking for $110K.  If you can meet that, I think you got him because he was wondering if that was 'unreal to ask for'?
Company to recruiter: "Ok we'll do $110K"

Everyone is saying he hadn't begun negotiations.  But I think it's like OP thinks, the recruiter passed it on.  Essentially, he threw out a number to the company. 

But whatever happens, please post update.

Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2016, 08:30:11 PM »
Could very well be what happened. That is why I am hesitant to ask for anymore because I spoke first. Thankfully, $110K is a pretty damn good salary and a hell of a lot better than $85k.

The VP of HR emailed me the letter and said he looks forward to talking about this job offer with me in the morning.

Should I email him back and say I would love to chat in the morning, you can reach me at my phone number.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:32:32 PM by Easye418 »

Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2016, 08:31:33 PM »
So many good points....

I would be pleasant if I negotiated and I like that "is there flexibility in the salary?".


But I am nervous about bringing it up!!!!

Talk to your recruiter first and see what info they have.  Again, it's in their best interest to get you more money too. They organization may have given them a range to search for potential candidates.  110 was clearly in that range, and you were probably submitted as a candidate at 110 along with a few other candidate options at different salary levels. This is your starting point.  You didn't know what the entire job entailed until you interviewed.  Things change!  Get the salary range from the recruiter and then negotiate yourself with the client once you have more information.

This is all pretty standard practice in the staffing/recruiting world.  I've been doing this a long time.  Don't worry about asking.






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Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2016, 08:35:03 PM »
Could very well be what happened. That is why I am hesitant to ask for anymore because I spoke first. Thankfully, $110K is a pretty damn good salary and a hell of a lot better than $85k.

The VP of HR emailed me the letter and said he looks forward to talking about this job offer with me in the morning.

And feel comfortable asking your recruiter about salary flexibility, NOT the client. You aren't negotiating with the third party recruiter.  They are nothing more than information gatherers.  Think of them as your job "realtor" with dual agency.

You need to be confident on the actual negotiations with the client and have a salary number or benefits amount going in that you request.  Don't ask them for permission to negotiate.


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Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 08:40:59 PM »
Should I talk to my recruiter first thing in the morning?  This recruiter did mention she was already paid to find a candidate.

Or should I just ask to speak with VP of HR and get negotiations underway?

LeRainDrop

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2016, 08:41:50 PM »
If I'm going to be totally honest about what I'd do if I were you:

I'd feel like I gave my opening salary request through the recruiter, and the employer already took into account all the positive vibes they got from interviewing me, which led them to accept that salary.  They're happy paying that number, and they probably think that I, having asked for that number, am now very happy to be getting it.  Not only that, I actually would be very happy because (1) it is a significant raise in terms of salary, bonus, and 401k matching, and (2) it is a salary that just a couple days ago I considered to be "unreal."  This is a huge win for me!  I would keep those positive vibes going and not re-open salary negotiations.

I'm assuming that you don't think their offer is less than what a person in that position should actually be paid, but rather you are feeling you should negotiate just because (1) they were so quick to give the $110k, perhaps they'd have been willing to give more, and (2) the old saw that you "shouldn't accept the first offer."  From what I've heard here, I would just go back to being happy about what a great job you did interviewing and how awesome it is that it led to a wonderful compensation package.

Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2016, 08:53:29 PM »
I have decided to accept the deal as stated and I am thrilled to have the opportunity with a great company.

Greedy pigs get slaughtered.

For the record:
Mar 2012:$49k + 6% bonus
Mar 2014:$60k + 10% bonus (job move)
Mar 2015: $70k + no bonus (job move)
Apr 2016: $85k + 10% bonus + 75% of retro bonus from year before of (15%, we max bonus that year)
Oct 2016: $110k + 15% bonus

I am extremely fortunate to be where I am at today


I am truly truly thankful for all the kind remarks.

The only thing I may ask for is the 3 days I need off for a mini vacation back home in October and if they would allow me to expense my tolls to get into work ($3k yearly) maybe.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 08:56:17 PM by Easye418 »

Papa bear

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 08:55:17 PM »
Should I talk to my recruiter first thing in the morning?  This recruiter did mention she was already paid to find a candidate.

Or should I just ask to speak with VP of HR and get negotiations underway?

Probably a retained search. Still talk with them.  The recruiter won't make the salary decisions but can still give you more information. It can't hurt to get more info about the salary ranges that were originally spoken about.

I'm in the middle of handling a job order right now where we presented a candidate at 140k + bonus.  He got the offer and he countered at 150k + bonus.  The presentation of the candidate came before the interview.  Based on the the interview and other information brought up during that process, the candidate changed their mind about their salary needs. The client hemmed and hawed a bit but are going to accommodate.  Sounds like you are in the exact same spot in the timeline.

Like I said.  This happens all the time.  Never hurts to ask!


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Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2016, 07:37:26 AM »
Called Recruiter first thing in the morning today.

To sum up when I said "I was really hoping for $120K", she pretty much said "Are you fucking crazy?  You are about to blow this deal"

She never communicated the $110k to the company, however, the job was only slated for $100k. 


I am happily accepting it, I am very glad that I spoke with the recruiter.

caracarn

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2016, 08:10:36 AM »
Joining this late, but glad it worked out and you did not follow the advice of those indicating you can always ask for more.  You can, but don't be surprised if the offer is flat our rescinded, not just that you get a no to your request to move up.  Especially with a recruiter, we expect to have the negotiation with them, not with them and then with the employee.  If that happens we not only lose respect for the employee we lose respect for the recruiter, who did not do their job.  If the recruiter does not know the salary you want, then they should find out before they talk to the employer about that.  If they do then you should be comfortable with the recruiter getting the deal you want or you need to work with another recruiter.

In any event, just sharing my thoughts and glad you got what you wanted.  I think your attitude of realizing that you are blessed to have had a doubling in pay over a 4 year period is exactly what you should be doing.  Your greedy pigs comment if right on with how I think.  If you are happy with the compensation then they gave you a fair offer.  What others think is truly irrelevant.

Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2016, 08:31:33 AM »
Joining this late, but glad it worked out and you did not follow the advice of those indicating you can always ask for more.  You can, but don't be surprised if the offer is flat our rescinded, not just that you get a no to your request to move up.  Especially with a recruiter, we expect to have the negotiation with them, not with them and then with the employee.  If that happens we not only lose respect for the employee we lose respect for the recruiter, who did not do their job.  If the recruiter does not know the salary you want, then they should find out before they talk to the employer about that.  If they do then you should be comfortable with the recruiter getting the deal you want or you need to work with another recruiter.

In any event, just sharing my thoughts and glad you got what you wanted.  I think your attitude of realizing that you are blessed to have had a doubling in pay over a 4 year period is exactly what you should be doing.  Your greedy pigs comment if right on with how I think.  If you are happy with the compensation then they gave you a fair offer.  What others think is truly irrelevant.

Thanks.  I almost stepped in a huge pile of shit, however, in my defense, I did not know the facts.  I had no idea that the job was $100k and they gave me $110k (what I mentioned).  I do have a specialized skillset, but I know there are people that can fill the role out there.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:33:26 AM by Easye418 »

tyort1

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2016, 08:33:37 AM »
Good work on the pay jump!  Yeah, I agree with your decision of just taking the $$, asking for more is a lot of risk for very little possible reward.

Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2016, 09:44:35 AM »
Spoke with VP of HR.... he was TOUGH.  Negotiation would have been a total failure. 

tyort1

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2016, 09:47:35 AM »
So what are you going to do with all that extra $$? 

Easye418

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2016, 10:04:31 AM »
So what are you going to do with all that extra $$?

Get to financial freedom quicker.  Get rid of nasty debt forever.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!! *Update*
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2016, 02:37:54 PM »
Awesome update!  Very happy for you -- congratulations!

EconDiva

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Re: Got job offer tonight, do I negotiate? Need help asap!!
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2016, 02:46:21 PM »
I have decided to accept the deal as stated and I am thrilled to have the opportunity with a great company.

Greedy pigs get slaughtered.

For the record:

Mar 2012:$49k + 6% bonus
Mar 2014:$60k + 10% bonus (job move)
Mar 2015: $70k + no bonus (job move)
Apr 2016: $85k + 10% bonus + 75% of retro bonus from year before of (15%, we max bonus that year)
Oct 2016: $110k + 15% bonus
I am extremely fortunate to be where I am at today


I am truly truly thankful for all the kind remarks.

The only thing I may ask for is the 3 days I need off for a mini vacation back home in October and if they would allow me to expense my tolls to get into work ($3k yearly) maybe.

WOW!

Great progress on the salary increases!

I see you are in Finance?  (Is CPG consumer products..?)

Not to hijack your thread by any means but I have a somewhat similar story:

Apr 2012: $45k
May 2012: $55k (job move-went from southeast to midwest)
Dec 2013: $60k (lateral move to a different department in same company)
Mar 2014: $70k + 8% bonus (job move)
Sep 2015: $82k + 8% bonus (promotion)

My goal in 2012 was to double my salary in 5 years.  Not there yet in terms of base but if you count my bonus and I get a small raise next year I could be right there.  Of course, I would love to be right at $100k though (is that greedy..?)...

I don't have an MBA; I have a BA in Econ but I have 10 years of experience in my current field.  Was considering putting some feelers out there just to see what I could get at this point although I'm pretty ok with my current position and company overall. 

Congratulations on the big raise!!  So glad you made the decision that ended up being the right decision for you.  This thread also has some helpful information as although I haven't worked with a recruiter in the past I'm open to doing so in the future.  Looks like the negotiation process definitely needs to be handled in a certain manner.