The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: Kevin S. on April 05, 2017, 12:49:03 PM
-
Quick question. Financially I'm doing well...relatively I guess. Zero debt. 50% of my take home pay is going into savings - 401k and roth ira.
My question is should I finance a fun car (I know I know not a smart idea) that is pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
It's not a collector car yet because it's still relatively new / getting a used one with low miles however and in this condition is becoming harder and harder.
What say you oh high counsel of mustancinininininininininsssss?
I have a paid off reliable vehicle this vehicle will be primarily used for 1-2 day commute to work and fun road trips with the fiancé, mountain trips.
Hint for you care people. It's a 2 door rwd roadster, made in the last 20 yrs and it's Japanese - no it's not a Miata. lol
-
Need more numbers. What's your income vs what's the cost of the car?
A person making 150k and saving 75k I'd say is much better off to buy a 25k "fun car" than someone making 50k wanting to buy the same priced vehicle.
-
Need more numbers. What's your income vs what's the cost of the car?
A person making 150k and saving 75k I'd say is much better off to buy a 25k "fun car" than someone making 50k wanting to buy the same priced vehicle.
Making 65k
Car is 25k - or less. Potentially 15k-20k
-
Most people here are going to say no. People here encourage buying cars in cash. Cars that are used, reliable, and low MPG. Fun cars, by definition, aren't Mustachian in general.
I personally am not a car person, but I understand fun and hobbies. If buying it won't affect your financial goals and savings, and you plan to actually use it*, go for it. But I'd encourage you to save up so you can pay for it upfront, not having to finance it.
*Don't be like my FIL. He has a fun car and it's the reason my in-laws have a 3-car garage. He almost never drives it. I don't think it was worth the purchase.
-
Most people here are going to say no. People here encourage buying cars in cash. Cars that are used, reliable, and low MPG. Fun cars, by definition, aren't Mustachian in general.
I personally am not a car person, but I understand fun and hobbies. If buying it won't affect your financial goals and savings, and you plan to actually use it*, go for it. But I'd encourage you to save up so you can pay for it upfront, not having to finance it.
*Don't be like my FIL. He has a fun car and it's the reason my in-laws have a 3-car garage. He almost never drives it. I don't think it was worth the purchase.
Thanks ! I have a 3 car garage. I'm a car person. My main hobby has (and I think always will be) been cars/motorcycles or as jay leno says as long as it rolls, makes noise and explodes I will probably enjoy it.
My commuter ranger is great on gas. Super reliable but just a boring drive(not bad for that 80 % of the time mind you). Fun times though? I think that is where the 2 door Roadster comes into play.
It will be driven to track events, car shows, day trips with the lady, etc so it will get used !
Insurance - cheap - will get collectors car insurance.
Gas - gets mid 20 mpg if not driven super hard.
Consumables - less than it would be for a motorcycle. It's relatively lightweight so tires should last fairly long.
Super reliable.
I can't see myself going a week without driving it !
-
Definitely not a good "investment", but everyone has hobbies. On the other hand, consider the hole you JUST dug out of. Do you want to get into the habit of financing after all the work you did previously?
I'm interested in buying a classic car eventually, probably a Studebaker. However, if/when I ever get to the point where I can justify it financially, I wouldn't spend more than $10k and would fix it up / restore it to make it worth more.
Maybe it would be more Mustachian if you could get one super cheap then restore?
What is the car btw?
-
How about a bicycle of some sort instead?
-
pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
I'd be careful with this mindset. It's value can still go to 0. Certainly don't let that thought make you pay more than you would otherwise.
How much of a nest egg have you already saved?
-
pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
I'd be careful with this mindset. It's value can still go to 0. Certainly don't let that thought make you pay more than you would otherwise.
How much of a nest egg have you already saved?
+1 that assumption is a BIG one, and I would not bank on it. Personally, I consider any hobby gear (which this car is) capable of instantly going to $0 value. I think it helps frame your choices better. Ex, even though I know we could liquidate our home gym gear for about 3/4+ the amount we spent on it, I count it's value as zero for break even propositions. It avoids tragedy if you're not balancing your finances on recouping costs.
So I think treat this like any other hobby: does it make sense for a hobbiest to finance a camera, or a horse, or [fill in the blank] if they can't pay for it outright? No. That hobby is too expensive for them right now. That being said, if you *could* pay cash, but have the option for a low fixed interest rate, then financing can be sensible. But it should be a tool only AFTER you answer the question, "can I afford this?"
-
No. You can't afford it.
-
As another mentioned similarly... how long have you been saving 50%, how long have you been out of debt? If you just paid your debt off a year ago and have only been saving 50% I'd give a big no to this.
I guess I assumed you were financing cause you could get like a sub 4% interest rate and it'd be smarter financially for some.. not because you didn't have the cash to pay for it.
You're free to do what makes you happy, and if it's worth it to you, go for it. But it's starting to sound like you aren't very comfortable financially yet.
-
Infiniti g37x?? Nissan 350z?? 300zx????
Few things here,
1) You don't make that much money.
2) There are tons of sweet "fun" cars on craigslist for less than 10k. If you really have to have a nice fun car, take a credit union loan out and buy a cheaper car on craigslist.
3) What kind of car is it?!? Makes a big difference if it will hold its value or not. My guess is that your choice of car is not a good one, or else you would have stated what it is you want to buy.
-
If you're dead set on a fun roadster, DO buy a miata. You should be able to get a great fun one for $4k. Save up the cash first though!
-
You can get something fun to drive for $5k. Why not go for something that may look a little beat up but mechanically is in great condition? You already have the everyday car, you just want something fun to drive.
Think about it like this...right now you're saving 50% of your take home pay. Buying this car you want essentially means your saving rate for an entire year will be nearly 0%. That is essentially how the math works out when you consider your after tax income and if you were to buy the car in cash. Maybe WORSE since you're talking about taking a loan out...and loans on used cars do not have low rates!
-
I would try to separate the decision to buy a car and the decision about financing it.
First, figure out if the car is what you want and can afford. Most posters so far seem to be trying to help you with this question.
...pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
Note: your quote is generally not true for most cars.
Then address the question about if it's better to finance the car or buy it outright only if you've decided the car is a good purchase.
-
Definitely not a good "investment", but everyone has hobbies. On the other hand, consider the hole you JUST dug out of. Do you want to get into the habit of financing after all the work you did previously?
I'm interested in buying a classic car eventually, probably a Studebaker. However, if/when I ever get to the point where I can justify it financially, I wouldn't spend more than $10k and would fix it up / restore it to make it worth more.
Maybe it would be more Mustachian if you could get one super cheap then restore?
What is the car btw?
Honda s2000
Studebaker ! My Grandpa had a studebaker hawk that I can remember him working on back in the 80's. Cool cars !
-
Honda s2000
IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it. Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.
However, I don't think you're thinking clearly. Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt? I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger. Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.
-
I'm way ahead of you in savings and income. In mid-2015, I bought a 2006 350Z w/ 36k on it for $13,900. Sold it a year later for $13,500. Yes I financed it (1.49%). No, I don't recommend financing, and I think you should try to "delay gratification" for now. I think it's something that's OK to do (buy a fun car) but you're just a little early on the curve right now.
Why shouldn't I finance it at like 2%?!
Over a 5 year period, you're guaranteed to lose money to interest. It's a complete toss-up if you'll make or lose money in investments. It's just too short of a time period, completely different from a 30 year mortgage. Plus, you're early on that curve. You need to get used to having saved up for things, and practice being a frugal person. Then you'll have earned the reward of a fun car that you can buy with cash, while still forging briskly forward on your journey to FIRE.
-
I completely understand the reservation about my comment " the car will hold it's value" but if you look at the value of the Honda s2000 - it has not decreased in value since about 3-4 yrs ago. Could that happen? Sure anything is possible but I don't see it happening. Especially since the new planned replacement from Honda is not going to be a similar vehicle.
I remember looking at and test driving a 2005 s2000 for 16k with 60k. That was back in 2013. Today 4/5/2017 - Similar cars are 16-18k - sometimes more at 20k plus.
read more about that here.
http://jalopnik.com/why-the-honda-s2000-is-a-future-classic-840861367
It's a future classic !
-
Honda s2000
IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it. Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.
However, I don't think you're thinking clearly. Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt? I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger. Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.
Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.
Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !
-
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
-
Honda s2000
IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it. Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.
However, I don't think you're thinking clearly. Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt? I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger. Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.
Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.
Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !
You can get much nicer/faster motorcycles much cheaper.
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
-
How about a bicycle of some sort instead?
Already have one. Not the same unless a bicycle has an engine strapped to it haha
-
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...
-
Honda s2000
IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it. Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.
However, I don't think you're thinking clearly. Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt? I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger. Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.
Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.
Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !
You can get much nicer/faster motorcycles much cheaper.
Don't tempt me haha.
-
I didn't realize you could predict the future... you'll be massively rich in a couple months anyway ;)
In all seriousness, where's your budget spreadsheet showing your income, expenses, savings, investment returns and time until FIRE?
When you subtract the car payment, car insurance, maintenance, restoration and weekend fuel costs, how much time does it add to your working career?
-
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...
I've wanted a Studebaker for about 2 years now. I still see many 50-60's models that I've been lusting after available. I'm sure they'll still be available in 10 years when I can actually afford one.
Check this out:
Quick update ! I'm officially (well as soon as it clears my bank) going to be cc debt free ! I owe no one!!!!! So stoked !
I had a nice break and was able to sell off some of my car parts that I really did not want to part with but the money was nice to have !
No more vw bug project...sad day. Oh well, when the time is right me and the fiancé will be ready !
I proposed to the better half about a week ago. She said yes ! We are on the fence about having a wedding or just getting eloped and saving our money.
We have been looking at houses but we have both decided to keep saving and rent. It's just not cost effective / make sense for our life(s) to buy right now. Maybe one day...
She is working on her debt but still it's a much bigger mountain to climb. I plan to help her every step of the way that I possibly can !
Just thought I'd share. It's a really great feeling to not owe any credit card companies. I don't think I have been here since possibly 99 when I got my first credit card.
-
An S2000 doesn't even remotely strike me as a "classic" that will retain its value or even go up.
In that year/price range id be looking at an 03/04 mustang cobra. I would find those as way more likely to go up in value (have been already) as there were many less produced.. and way faster.
I actually may be in the market for one soon, although I'd be selling my paid off truck to buy that and add for cash.
-
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...
You're giving yourself false choices here.
How about you shift the hobby, so you take the emotion out of it? I REALLY WANT a specific gaited horse. (those are horses that have an 'extra' gait, not just walk/trot/canter, very smooth, but limited blood lines). The horse I want is $25k. That's half of what I make in a year. BUT, it's a great bloodline! It'll like almost totally keep value on it! But, I don't have the money right now. Should I borrow money to buy this horse? Even though there will be some maintenance costs? This is my ONE CHANCE to get into this bloodline, otherwise it will cost more later and there will be less selection, no one will be selling!
Do you see now? No, I should wait, and then buy a different horse. Yes, I want *this* horse, and *this* bloodline. But it's just not the right time. I need to wait, and buy a different horse. Even if it's not exactly the horse I want, it will still be an awesome horse, and I'll be in a much better financial position.
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
-
What's your net worth?
-
I completely understand the reservation about my comment " the car will hold it's value" but if you look at the value of the Honda s2000 - it has not decreased in value since about 3-4 yrs ago. Could that happen? Sure anything is possible but I don't see it happening. Especially since the new planned replacement from Honda is not going to be a similar vehicle.
I remember looking at and test driving a 2005 s2000 for 16k with 60k. That was back in 2013. Today 4/5/2017 - Similar cars are 16-18k - sometimes more at 20k plus.
read more about that here.
http://jalopnik.com/why-the-honda-s2000-is-a-future-classic-840861367
It's a future classic !
A 2005 was $16k in 2005, and $16k in 2017. Fine. What will it be worth in 2025? 2030? Maybe $16k, maybe more, but also possibly $3-5k or less. Or 0 if a distracted teenager hits you. You can justify a purchase like this in a lot of ways, but "investment" is hardly a logical one. It's an expense.
If you truly did only get out of debt last November (and had been there a long time), I think you need to enjoy that a bit longer before you even consider going into debt for something that's strictly-speaking optional. My car is worth about 2% of my net worth, and I think that's too much (as in too little on the net worth side).
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
-
I didn't realize you could predict the future... you'll be massively rich in a couple months anyway ;)
In all seriousness, where's your budget spreadsheet showing your income, expenses, savings, investment returns and time until FIRE?
When you subtract the car payment, car insurance, maintenance, restoration and weekend fuel costs, how much time does it add to your working career?
Roughly 2.5 yrs. Ugh...you jerks are killing my car hobby lol
You guys/gals are right. It just doesn't make sense financially right now.
I keep hearing my pops saying grumbly "just do the right thing ya big dummy" in his quasi red fox impersonation.
-
An S2000 doesn't even remotely strike me as a "classic" that will retain its value or even go up.
In that year/price range id be looking at an 03/04 mustang cobra. I would find those as way more likely to go up in value (have been already) as there were many less produced.. and way faster.
I actually may be in the market for one soon, although I'd be selling my paid off truck to buy that and add for cash.
It will be a classic for my generation and the right customer who is interested in Honda / Japanese vehicles. It's what most would consider the pinnacle of Honda engineering at the time. Well that and the NSX.
The terminator is another one of those cars that I can only see going up in value. Hard to find a clean and especially stock 03/04 cobra though. Never thought I would see the day where foxbody and even sn95 mustangs are starting to gain in value.
-
If you save as much as you say you do, why not just pay cash for it?
It's never smart to borrow and pay interest for a toy.
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancé is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.
Thanks for the help all !
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
-
To play devil's advocate, perhaps instead of being a sure thing future classic, used car values are staying high because lax auto lending standards along with recording breaking loan lengths and market penetration are artificially propping up used car prices.
nifty chart demonstrating rise in US auto loan volume:
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/HkWXZyBFl
-
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.
Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.
How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?
Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancé is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.
Thanks for the help all !
Yeah, if your fiancé isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.
I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.
-
To play devil's advocate, perhaps instead of being a sure thing future classic, used car values are staying high because lax auto lending standards along with recording breaking loan lengths and market penetration are artificially propping up used car prices.
nifty chart demonstrating rise in US auto loan volume:
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/HkWXZyBFl
THis makes sense if you don't have any knowledge about classic cars.
This is primarily due to defaulting on car loans , subprime auto loan market is basically at the highest threshold that it's been in a long time. I don't think that however will have any adverse effect on classic / highly desirable cars. I could be wrong...I have been wrong before ^_^
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.
lol really ? Tell that to mustang / Camaro / bell air / fuck any classic muscle car when they dumped them when gas shot up in the 70s
I can't tell you how many stories I've heard from people over the years who are of that age group who regret selling that "gto,mustang,vette" etc and buying a econobox back then.
It's the same thing here with the s2000, supra, rx7, nsx, skyline, etc take your pic of pre bubble Japanese engineering.
They will be gaining in value for some years to come as my generation and the generation after me pines for them.
I may not know crap about the stock market but I do know my cars.
Still doesn't mean I'm going to pull the trigger on one (for now at least). I think for me I'm going to get myself a bit more squared away financially and revist this topic in a year or two. Hopefully s2000's will be in my price range and not impossible to find - ala mkiv supra turbo, fd rx7 (to an extent - rotary reliability is a gift/curse lol) , sw20 mr2.
-
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancé is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.
Thanks for the help all !
Yeah, if your fiancé isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.
I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.
So very true ! Not fun but we are a team and I'm her to help her however much I can !
-
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.
Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)
Thank you very much ! It's sure not easy but doing the right thing hardly ever is. My fiancé has a point my car ADD is so ridiculous that I honestly should just wait another 1-2 yrs to see if I even still want an s2000 lol
Also on that e30 - unless it's a complete pile of crap. 3-4k if it has zero rust and a good mechanicaly sound drivetrain is a steal. Those cars are also climbing in value. Try and find an e30 m3 for under 20k, clean title - almost impossible !
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.
How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?
Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !
Lightstream process is simple. Fill out the application on their website. You then receive an email within 24 hours if approved. They just required pics of pay stubs; they didn't care what kind of car I was buying.
A Supra is far from a Mustachian-type of car, but only those who know of it will understand.
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.
How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?
Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !
Lightstream process is simple. Fill out the application on their website. You then receive an email within 24 hours if approved. They just required pics of pay stubs; they didn't care what kind of car I was buying.
A Supra is far from a Mustachian-type of car, but only those who know of it will understand.
Sounds like a very simple process. I will look into them when the time is ready.
Beautiful Supra. Hope you enjoy it ! My fiancé is a big Toyota fan (as am I). She has a 89 Toyota corolla alltrac wagon that we take to the local cars&coffee just for fun. Just over 200k , burns a little oil at start up but perfect otherwise !
looks just like this
(http://downtownmotorcarsales.com/pics/1989-toyota-corolla-all-trac-4wd-wagon-all-original-124k-miles-no-reserve-1.JPG)
-
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.
Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)
Thank you very much ! It's sure not easy but doing the right thing hardly ever is. My fiancé has a point my car ADD is so ridiculous that I honestly should just wait another 1-2 yrs to see if I even still want an s2000 lol
Also on that e30 - unless it's a complete pile of crap. 3-4k if it has zero rust and a good mechanicaly sound drivetrain is a steal. Those cars are also climbing in value. Try and find an e30 m3 for under 20k, clean title - almost impossible !
IT WAS A STEAL (although def not an m3). Haha. That's why it was such a struggle. But we literally don't have a place to put a third car. Also there was family drama. *eye roll*. There also was something up with the engine... may have been as minor as the fuel pump (that's what DH was thinking) but could have been more severe. Either way, not to be. =(
And re: your rotary comment above. Was totally expecting you to say it was the rx8, and I was gonna have to be like "noooooo rotary engine maintenance nightmare!".
Re: the car ADD. You should talk to Neo. He's been working through that lately. That man is the living definition of "car ADD". Neo, how many have you had in the past 10 years? Like 15 cars? ;)
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancé is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.
Thanks for the help all !
Yeah, if your fiancé isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.
I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.
This is so true. Gotta look at your numbers as a couple. Maybe that will shift your perspective even more about if you can afford cars as a hobby right now. Honestly, consider another hobby for a while. The car lust will never go away, but trust me when I say time on auto forums and autocross and car clubs do NOT help the car lust. DH opted for jiu jitsu, I'm currently into running. Find something else for your brain to grind on when it's bored =)
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.
How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?
Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !
Lightstream process is simple. Fill out the application on their website. You then receive an email within 24 hours if approved. They just required pics of pay stubs; they didn't care what kind of car I was buying.
A Supra is far from a Mustachian-type of car, but only those who know of it will understand.
Sounds like a very simple process. I will look into them when i'm ready.
Beautiful Supra. Hope you enjoy it ! My fiancé is a big Toyota fan (as am I). She has a 89 Toyota corolla alltrac wagon that we take to the local cars&coffee just for fun. Just over 200k , burns a little oil at start up but perfect otherwise !
looks just like this
(http://downtownmotorcarsales.com/pics/1989-toyota-corolla-all-trac-4wd-wagon-all-original-124k-miles-no-reserve-1.JPG)
-
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.
Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)
Thank you very much ! It's sure not easy but doing the right thing hardly ever is. My fiancé has a point my car ADD is so ridiculous that I honestly should just wait another 1-2 yrs to see if I even still want an s2000 lol
Also on that e30 - unless it's a complete pile of crap. 3-4k if it has zero rust and a good mechanicaly sound drivetrain is a steal. Those cars are also climbing in value. Try and find an e30 m3 for under 20k, clean title - almost impossible !
IT WAS A STEAL (although def not an m3). Haha. That's why it was such a struggle. But we literally don't have a place to put a third car. Also there was family drama. *eye roll*. There also was something up with the engine... may have been as minor as the fuel pump (that's what DH was thinking) but could have been more severe. Either way, not to be. =(
And re: your rotary comment above. Was totally expecting you to say it was the rx8, and I was gonna have to be like "noooooo rotary engine maintenance nightmare!".
Re: the car ADD. You should talk to Neo. He's been working through that lately. That man is the living definition of "car ADD". Neo, how many have you had in the past 10 years? Like 15 cars? ;)
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.
It's a future classic !
I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this. It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity. You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.
Exactly this.
Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.
What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.
I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)
Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.
Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancé is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.
Thanks for the help all !
Yeah, if your fiancé isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.
I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.
This is so true. Gotta look at your numbers as a couple. Maybe that will shift your perspective even more about if you can afford cars as a hobby right now. Honestly, consider another hobby for a while. The car lust will never go away, but trust me when I say time on auto forums and autocross and car clubs do NOT help the car lust. DH opted for jiu jitsu, I'm currently into running. Find something else for your brain to grind on when it's bored =)
15 cars in 10 yrs that's cute. I think in the last 10 yrs I'm over 35 cars. No joke...I may have a little bit of an addiction. Good thing is that in this last year and half. I have had exactly 1 car ! Oh and exactly zero motorcycles.
That is a good idea about trying to find another hobby. I think a big problem for me is trying to change my focus when it has been primarily cars/motorcycles. It's what makes me happy. What can I say.
-
That is a good idea about trying to find another hobby. I think a big problem for me is trying to change my focus when it has been primarily cars/motorcycles. It's what makes me happy. What can I say.
Think of it this way. If nothing else, you're making yourself a richer, more interesting person, who can connect more easily to other people, since you'll have a variety of interests and experiences. Don't focus on what you're giving up- focus on what you have to gain. There's a world of new learning, friendships, community, and enrichment just waiting for you to find =) Cars will always be there. They're just not the best choice right now.
-
That is a good idea about trying to find another hobby. I think a big problem for me is trying to change my focus when it has been primarily cars/motorcycles. It's what makes me happy. What can I say.
Think of it this way. If nothing else, you're making yourself a richer, more interesting person, who can connect more easily to other people, since you'll have a variety of interests and experiences. Don't focus on what you're giving up- focus on what you have to gain. There's a world of new learning, friendships, community, and enrichment just waiting for you to find =) Cars will always be there. They're just not the best choice right now.
BUT THE SPEED ! I have the need...haha
Thanks for the help / info. I think in a couple years I will have a new / interesting hobby / pursuit and a nice collectible s2000
-
In 10 years? Only nine! And one motorcycle. But I'm hoping for 10 now. Almost had a heart attack today driving home from work. Hit what I'm pretty sure was a radiator. Not a car radiator. A heat the house radiator. Middle of an intersection of two busy roads. I was like "why are people swerving all over this inters... F***!" And then I hit it with my front right tire and went up on it and slid a little. Got home and I can't find any evidence I hit it though... Good thing I have that truck!
Anyway, put another way, I've discovered that in ~20 years, I've lost ~$40k in buying/selling... not counting tax, titles, tags and fees! But a big chunk of that was the most recent trade. I should know better, but I make mistakes at dealerships... kryptonite, I tell you.
-
I was going to guess S2000 before you even mentioned it. I was seriously considering buying one a few years ago to replace my Supra. When I finally actually test drove an S2000 I wasn't very impressed. I didn't like the gearing and it didn't feel as special as I was expecting. They are nice cars, but didn't live up to the hype for me. I agree that they are going to hold their value very well. As a side note, you may be interested in my journal (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/) where I talk a lot about cars.
More on point though, I don't think you should finance a car you couldn't also pay cash for. Save up for a while and see if you are still passionate about the car.
-
In 10 years? Only nine! And one motorcycle. But I'm hoping for 10 now. Almost had a heart attack today driving home from work. Hit what I'm pretty sure was a radiator. Not a car radiator. A heat the house radiator. Middle of an intersection of two busy roads. I was like "why are people swerving all over this inters... F***!" And then I hit it with my front right tire and went up on it and slid a little. Got home and I can't find any evidence I hit it though... Good thing I have that truck!
Anyway, put another way, I've discovered that in ~20 years, I've lost ~$40k in buying/selling... not counting tax, titles, tags and fees! But a big chunk of that was the most recent trade. I should know better, but I make mistakes at dealerships... kryptonite, I tell you.
Wow ! I'm surprised you didn't get any body damage or suspension damage...
Lucky !
Yeah I looked at all the registration/insurance fees - did a quick average per car amount = $500 x 30 = 15k worth of money down the drain. That is on the low end ! It doesn't count for consumables - brakes/tires/oil/gas - if I had to guess - at least another 20k for all that car over the last 10-15 yrs. Cars are definitely not a cheap hobby.
-
I always enjoy reading a thread where things to round and round the OP actually takes into consideration the advice that is given (even if it isn't what they want to hear).
We've all been there... hell, most of us are there every day.
It may not always be something as big as a car, but it's always something.
(I know I know not a smart idea)
Sometimes we just need other people to tell us what we already know.
-
I always enjoy reading a thread where things to round and round the OP actually takes into consideration the advice that is given (even if it isn't what they want to hear).
We've all been there... hell, most of us are there every day.
It may not always be something as big as a car, but it's always something.
(I know I know not a smart idea)
Sometimes we just need other people to tell us what we already know.
Truth hurts as they say...
Why is that ? Why do we constantly lust after bs, crap we don't need, trying to buy new shiny crap to repl old shiny crap ?
Seriously...wtf is wrong me/our society. Why can't most people just be happy with what they have. I honestly can't answer that question. I don't have an addictive personality - don't smoke,drink(besides the occasional beer), drugs, etc. Work and live a relatively happy life and then boom - I see the new shiny driving down the street and think - that guy looks happy - I want what he has ! Maybe it's just envy , jealousy ? meh...
-
Hedonic adaptation! Even if you bought that S2000, you'd probably go back to "baseline" happiness and want a Supra, or whatever other car.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/
-
NEVER finance a toy!!
-
Just to add fuel to the fire, I had an S2000 for seven years. I used it as my daily driver for five years, then went back to an automatic because job and commute changed, and there were days it felt like I changed gears 1,000 times on the 30-mile ride home. I only put 800 miles on it in the last two years I owned it, so I decided to sell. I don't regret selling it, but it sure was a fun car.
Here's my daughter enjoying it.
-
Hedonic adaptation! Even if you bought that S2000, you'd probably go back to "baseline" happiness and want a Supra, or whatever other car.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/
Hedonism=the American way...sad but true.
Barrage of advertising sure doesn't help, pressure from keeping up the "jones"
F the JONES! right in there stupid fucking face !
lol
-
Just to add fuel to the fire, I had an S2000 for seven years. I used it as my daily driver for five years, then went back to an automatic because job and commute changed, and there were days it felt like I changed gears 1,000 times on the 30-mile ride home. I only put 800 miles on it in the last two years I owned it, so I decided to sell. I don't regret selling it, but it sure was a fun car.
Here's my daughter enjoying it.
Cool pic !
-
I sat in an S2000 at a Honda Dealership. It's on the long list of convertibles that put the windshield frame pretty much where my face sits. And I'm not remarkably tall - 6'2". I drove an early 2000s Camaro and sat in a Corvette - those big "made for Americans" cars are the only convertibles that seem to work for me.
-
15 cars in 10 yrs that's cute. I think in the last 10 yrs I'm over 35 cars. No joke...I may have a little bit of an addiction. Good thing is that in this last year and half. I have had exactly 1 car ! Oh and exactly zero motorcycles.
That is a good idea about trying to find another hobby. I think a big problem for me is trying to change my focus when it has been primarily cars/motorcycles. It's what makes me happy. What can I say.
I was going to say the same thing. I have slowed down in the last ten years but in the last 20 years I am closing in on 50. I have owned 2 dozen supras (Mk2, Mk3, and Mk4). Countless subarus, all-trac, borrowed an S2000 for a couple weeks (it was only fun above 5000rpms), several M3s, corvette, 3000GT VR4. Right now I drive a 10 year old Sienna. My eyes are always peeled though. I have tried to be conservative with cars but I do all my own work and owned a shop doing 1j and 2j swaps.
I would not consider any of these cars investments though no matter what the rarity. The fact of the matter is they cost money to both operate and store. If you drive them you have to insure them and if you park them you have to insure them. Unless the value absolutely skyrockets then you are essentially just losing less money. My last M3 cost ~$1,000/ year in maintenance and $600/year in insurance. Plus I need an extra parking space inside in order to keep it in pristine condition. Speaking of pristine there is a cost to maintain that. Clip a curb or get a scratch on the nose and you will need to get it fixed. Unless you are constantly churning then buying and holding a car is a horrible investment. Don't kid yourself.
-
Hedonic adaptation! Even if you bought that S2000, you'd probably go back to "baseline" happiness and want a Supra, or whatever other car.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/
Hedonism=the American way...sad but true.
Barrage of advertising sure doesn't help, pressure from keeping up the "jones"
F the JONES! right in there stupid fucking face !
lol
Avoiding advertising helps! Seriously. An even better reason than money savings to cut cable- save time, save mental 'addiction' to material crap. Same goes for installing ad blockers on your browser and unsubscribing from mailing lists.
Even still, most of us get spikes of wanting material things. I find it goes in cycles for me, where I'll be content for a while, then I get restless and want-want-want. IME, if I hold off through that cycle of WAAANT and don't buy anything, it fades after a couple weeks. Usually it's just a symptom of other restlessness, like I'm feeling socially isolated, frustrated with work, or like I'm not getting quality time with my husband. (Time in nature is also a big 'reset' for me!) If those are doing well, and I wait, and I still want something, only then do I consider a big purchase.
It's worked damn well so far. =)
-
I used to watch Top Gear like crazy. Got into it later than most, so there was lots of binging to do. Then I had ~3 active car magazines. (Now I just have a C&D magazine that won't seem to die, but I haven't paid for in a long, long time.) Currently just have Netflix, no cable. So I can't watch current Top Gear.
Anyway, I've found great joy in driving certain cars, like the Honda Fit. Obviously it's "different" than a RWD convertible, and you can scoff if you'd like. We all have different places on the spectrum of "car lust." But I pretty much shut off the "collector's" switch. Yes, I want to drive something I can enjoy, and I can enjoy driving pretty tame vehicles. The first generation Fit is a "no frills" light weight hatchback. It does what you tell it to, rather than squishily hiding bumps from you. The transmission is direct, and the steering feels direct. So you're driving. Yeah, you can't throw your back against the seat, and you need bizarre skills to kick the back out, but you can enjoy driving it, nonetheless. Would you ever put it in a collection? Uh... maybe a really weird, eclectic one... but normally, no. That instinct to collect can get you in trouble, whatever your hobby.
I think those that drive something like the BRZ/FR-S/86 might be on the right track. I haven't driven one yet, so I don't know how well I'd fit, and unfortunately, when I don't own something like a hatchback, I tend to really, really miss it. So it'll probably never be my only car, unless I'm FIRE'd and my wife and I share two cars for everything we do, and decide that's the good "stupid" car to have ;)
Anyway, are you getting your driving kicks in? Can you collect on a much smaller scale? (I have ~20 model Corvettes, for example. At $17-25/pop "collecting" isn't as painful as it is with cars. Storage and insurance is really cheap!)
-
I think those that drive something like the BRZ/FR-S/86 might be on the right track.
I'm still loving my BRZ after four years of ownership. :)
-
I used to watch Top Gear like crazy. Got into it later than most, so there was lots of binging to do. Then I had ~3 active car magazines. (Now I just have a C&D magazine that won't seem to die, but I haven't paid for in a long, long time.) Currently just have Netflix, no cable. So I can't watch current Top Gear.
Anyway, I've found great joy in driving certain cars, like the Honda Fit. Obviously it's "different" than a RWD convertible, and you can scoff if you'd like. We all have different places on the spectrum of "car lust." But I pretty much shut off the "collector's" switch. Yes, I want to drive something I can enjoy, and I can enjoy driving pretty tame vehicles. The first generation Fit is a "no frills" light weight hatchback. It does what you tell it to, rather than squishily hiding bumps from you. The transmission is direct, and the steering feels direct. So you're driving. Yeah, you can't throw your back against the seat, and you need bizarre skills to kick the back out, but you can enjoy driving it, nonetheless. Would you ever put it in a collection? Uh... maybe a really weird, eclectic one... but normally, no. That instinct to collect can get you in trouble, whatever your hobby.
I think those that drive something like the BRZ/FR-S/86 might be on the right track. I haven't driven one yet, so I don't know how well I'd fit, and unfortunately, when I don't own something like a hatchback, I tend to really, really miss it. So it'll probably never be my only car, unless I'm FIRE'd and my wife and I share two cars for everything we do, and decide that's the good "stupid" car to have ;)
Anyway, are you getting your driving kicks in? Can you collect on a much smaller scale? (I have ~20 model Corvettes, for example. At $17-25/pop "collecting" isn't as painful as it is with cars. Storage and insurance is really cheap!)
Ugh..car magazine subscriptions. Thankfully I got rid of those a couple years back but man I was a sucker for those. I think I was paying over 100 bucks a yr for several of them. Getting rare euro mags at a discounted rate of 50 bucks/yr ? !!?! - crazy indeed !
No scoffing here sir. I had a Honda fit - 2015 - manual trans - very fun drive. Honda knows how to make a great manual transmission and amazing steering feel. One of my favorite practical cars out there !
I think my thing I keep going to back to is, my truck is reliable, cheap to maintain, good on gas, paid for. Should run for another 100k - possibly more but it is just not fun at all, rides a bit rough (it's a truck) and has very little pickup. Steering is vague, shifter is a truck - so terrible. Lol - first world problems. But for a car guy- driving a really ordinary boring appliance of a vehicle can start to weigh on you. Then I think ? It's paid off and my savings are really jumping up now ! I think in a year or two I will revisit this situation. See what my mind may wander too.
v8 Miata anyone ?
-
The 3rd gen Fit is high on my shopping list. I have a truck, but it's... a current generation Silverado 5.3L. And it's "nice" but I really do NOT enjoy commuting in it daily. The driving is... reasonably OK, aside from Truck jitter/rattles and Truck clunky shifting (a 2014 specific issue.) But the engineer/mustachian really feels conflicted about hauling 2.5 tons of steel back and forth to work with me. And financially... it's way better for me to drive a 2015 Fit than this beast. So I plan to sell it in the next 3 months, and get a trailer... so my next car will be able to be a great commuter, but add a trailer and voila, "truck."
-
I think Chris22 on here has an S2000 and from what I just read, he has loved it for the past 10 years.
Get the S2000 and finance it at less than 2%. Use the other the money to fund investments.
S2000 isn't on the same level as an NSX, but I passed on a couple NSX purchases about 3 years ago. Let's just say they are selling for $20k more than I was going to pay.
A clean low mileage S2000 will be sought after in the coming years as cars become more tech intrusive. The feel of a lightweight nimble car that you shift yourself is something that will appeal to many for years to come.
-
Fwiw I've had a "fun car" and a boat (ok several boats). The boat gives way more joy because the experience is shared with others.
LOL but definitely NOT an "investment" in the financial sense.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.
lol really ? Tell that to mustang / Camaro / bell air / fuck any classic muscle car when they dumped them when gas shot up in the 70s
I can't tell you how many stories I've heard from people over the years who are of that age group who regret selling that "gto,mustang,vette" etc and buying a econobox back then.
It's the same thing here with the s2000, supra, rx7, nsx, skyline, etc take your pic of pre bubble Japanese engineering.
They will be gaining in value for some years to come as my generation and the generation after me pines for them.
I may not know crap about the stock market but I do know my cars.
Still doesn't mean I'm going to pull the trigger on one (for now at least). I think for me I'm going to get myself a bit more squared away financially and revist this topic in a year or two. Hopefully s2000's will be in my price range and not impossible to find - ala mkiv supra turbo, fd rx7 (to an extent - rotary reliability is a gift/curse lol) , sw20 mr2.
Clean MR2s seem to be holding pretty stable now. Not a bad choice, IMO. After ~9 years I have a love/hate relationship with mine (http://i.imgur.com/RdwLmfq.png), lol.
-
I would do it, given the circumstance.
I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.
Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.
If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.
- Richard
I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.
lol really ? Tell that to mustang / Camaro / bell air / fuck any classic muscle car when they dumped them when gas shot up in the 70s
I can't tell you how many stories I've heard from people over the years who are of that age group who regret selling that "gto,mustang,vette" etc and buying a econobox back then.
It's the same thing here with the s2000, supra, rx7, nsx, skyline, etc take your pic of pre bubble Japanese engineering.
They will be gaining in value for some years to come as my generation and the generation after me pines for them.
I may not know crap about the stock market but I do know my cars.
Still doesn't mean I'm going to pull the trigger on one (for now at least). I think for me I'm going to get myself a bit more squared away financially and revist this topic in a year or two. Hopefully s2000's will be in my price range and not impossible to find - ala mkiv supra turbo, fd rx7 (to an extent - rotary reliability is a gift/curse lol) , sw20 mr2.
Clean MR2s seem to be holding pretty stable now. Not a bad choice, IMO. After ~9 years I have a love/hate relationship with mine (http://i.imgur.com/RdwLmfq.png), lol.
Indeed ! Toyota and Honda are going to be the most desirable cars I think of this era.
It's almost impossible to find a clean turbo mr2 for less than 5k - great vehicles ! Probably one of the most fun stock vehicles I've ever driven !
-
Maybe save for a potentially forever dream car that you buy in cash? My DH had never owned a car for more than two years when I met him; he bought a practical reliable vehicle and kept it for 10 years while meeting a number of other personal financial goals. Then he saved up the cash to buy a used aston martin.
-
I think Chris22 on here has an S2000 and from what I just read, he has loved it for the past 10 years.
Get the S2000 and finance it at less than 2%. Use the other the money to fund investments.
S2000 isn't on the same level as an NSX, but I passed on a couple NSX purchases about 3 years ago. Let's just say they are selling for $20k more than I was going to pay.
A clean low mileage S2000 will be sought after in the coming years as cars become more tech intrusive. The feel of a lightweight nimble car that you shift yourself is something that will appeal to many for years to come.
There is no other money. He doesn't have the cash for the car. The question isn't "finance or pay cash" it's "do I finance a car I cannot afford?"
-
As someone with a car addiction / affliction I would give you the following advice.
The best opportunities / good deals do not go to people that need to finance. If you are in-tune with the car market you will be well aware that the best deals go to the people that have cash and can close the deal on the spot. Sellers get jerked around by day dreamers and people needing financing and the person with cash in hand can get it for less money since people do not want the hassle. Also you will find the best cars the desirable ones have people looking for them and they are swooped up in a matter of hours by flippers with cash.
In your current situation with needing financing you might get lucky once in a while but you have to wait and look for the right one and hope that they are willing to wait on you to finance otherwise it was probably over priced or less than desirable so the flippers have not swooped in yet.
-------------------
One thing that has been a struggle for me is the mantra of this site that anything other than buying a cheap gas sipping car is face punch worthy maybe I just do not understand. You can buy cars that have already depreciated and are set for a major appreciation cycle (think Porsche) or fix and flip.
You really need to know the market and you need to have cash.
I guess it could be called car hacking and I have done it with boring cars such as a subaru legacy to land rovers such as Defenders, discoveries and Range Rovers.
for example buying a 10 year old range rover or discovery that needs a new differential or transfer case for $300 - $800 dollars put in $50 - $250 in parts and sell it off for $3000 - $5000 after driving them for a while.
Buying a 97 Defender 90 for 19K, removing off-road gear selling the off-road gear for ~6k and selling the Defender after driving it for 5 years for 27K
1965 Mustang with a slipping transmission - traded for a rifle rebuilt the transmission and my mom still owns it / drives it to this day. Willing to bet she can sell it for far more than it cost to buy / fix and she loves the car 20 years later.
2001 Mazda b2000 pickup, dented tailgate, dented rear bumper paid $1100, $175 for tailgate, $75 for bumper. Drove it daily for 5 years and sold it to my sister for less than trade in value for $3500 and they still have it ~6 years later and drive it daily.
A few Toyota trucks, a few Subarus and the most money making of all time a Toyota Yaris
-
I would say no unless the car is going to increase in value more than investing that can money.