Author Topic: financing a car  (Read 10321 times)

Kevin S.

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financing a car
« on: April 05, 2017, 12:49:03 PM »
Quick question. Financially I'm doing well...relatively I guess. Zero debt. 50% of my take home pay is going into savings - 401k and roth ira.

My question is should I finance a fun car (I know I know not a smart idea) that is pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.

It's not a collector car yet because it's still relatively new / getting a used one with low miles however and in this condition is becoming harder and harder.

What say you oh high counsel of mustancinininininininininsssss?

I have a paid off reliable vehicle this vehicle will be primarily used for 1-2 day commute to work and fun road trips with the fiancÚ, mountain trips.

Hint for you care people. It's a 2 door rwd roadster, made in the last 20 yrs and it's Japanese - no it's not a Miata. lol



use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 12:50:53 PM »
Need more numbers. What's your income vs what's the cost of the car?

A person making 150k and saving 75k I'd say is much better off to buy a 25k "fun car" than someone making 50k wanting to buy the same priced vehicle.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 12:53:12 PM »
Need more numbers. What's your income vs what's the cost of the car?

A person making 150k and saving 75k I'd say is much better off to buy a 25k "fun car" than someone making 50k wanting to buy the same priced vehicle.

Making 65k

Car is 25k - or less. Potentially 15k-20k

redbird

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 12:56:46 PM »
Most people here are going to say no. People here encourage buying cars in cash. Cars that are used, reliable, and low MPG. Fun cars, by definition, aren't Mustachian in general.

I personally am not a car person, but I understand fun and hobbies. If buying it won't affect your financial goals and savings, and you plan to actually use it*, go for it. But I'd encourage you to save up so you can pay for it upfront, not having to finance it.

*Don't be like my FIL. He has a fun car and it's the reason my in-laws have a 3-car garage. He almost never drives it. I don't think it was worth the purchase.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 01:05:22 PM »
Most people here are going to say no. People here encourage buying cars in cash. Cars that are used, reliable, and low MPG. Fun cars, by definition, aren't Mustachian in general.

I personally am not a car person, but I understand fun and hobbies. If buying it won't affect your financial goals and savings, and you plan to actually use it*, go for it. But I'd encourage you to save up so you can pay for it upfront, not having to finance it.

*Don't be like my FIL. He has a fun car and it's the reason my in-laws have a 3-car garage. He almost never drives it. I don't think it was worth the purchase.

Thanks ! I have a 3 car garage. I'm a car person. My main hobby has (and I think always will be) been cars/motorcycles or as jay leno says as long as it rolls, makes noise and explodes I will probably enjoy it.

My commuter ranger is great on gas. Super reliable but just a boring drive(not bad for that 80 % of the time mind you). Fun times though? I think that is where the 2 door Roadster comes into play.

It will be driven to track events, car shows, day trips with the lady, etc so it will get used !

Insurance - cheap - will get collectors car insurance.
Gas - gets mid 20 mpg if not driven super hard.
Consumables - less than it would be for a motorcycle. It's relatively lightweight so tires should last fairly long.
Super reliable.

I can't see myself going a week without driving it !

Vindicated

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 01:16:46 PM »
Definitely not a good "investment", but everyone has hobbies.  On the other hand, consider the hole you JUST dug out of.  Do you want to get into the habit of financing after all the work you did previously?

I'm interested in buying a classic car eventually, probably a Studebaker.  However, if/when I ever get to the point where I can justify it financially, I wouldn't spend more than $10k and would fix it up / restore it to make it worth more.

Maybe it would be more Mustachian if you could get one super cheap then restore?

What is the car btw?

frugaliknowit

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 01:17:35 PM »
How about a bicycle of some sort instead?

ketchup

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 01:18:07 PM »
pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
I'd be careful with this mindset.  It's value can still go to 0.  Certainly don't let that thought make you pay more than you would otherwise.

How much of a nest egg have you already saved?

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 01:22:54 PM »
pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.
I'd be careful with this mindset.  It's value can still go to 0.  Certainly don't let that thought make you pay more than you would otherwise.

How much of a nest egg have you already saved?

+1 that assumption is a BIG one, and I would not bank on it. Personally, I consider any hobby gear (which this car is) capable of instantly going to $0 value. I think it helps frame your choices better. Ex, even though I know we could liquidate our home gym gear for about 3/4+ the amount we spent on it, I count it's value as zero for break even propositions. It avoids tragedy if you're not balancing your finances on recouping costs.

So I think treat this like any other hobby: does it make sense for a hobbiest to finance a camera, or a horse, or [fill in the blank] if they can't pay for it outright? No. That hobby is too expensive for them right now. That being said, if you *could* pay cash, but have the option for a low fixed interest rate, then financing can be sensible. But it should be a tool only AFTER you answer the question, "can I afford this?"

Mr Mark

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 01:31:32 PM »
No. You can't afford it.

use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 01:38:04 PM »
As another mentioned similarly... how long have you been saving 50%, how long have you been out of debt? If you just paid your debt off a year ago and have only been saving 50% I'd give a big no to this.

I guess I assumed you were financing cause you could get like a sub 4% interest rate and it'd be smarter financially for some.. not because you didn't have the cash to pay for it.

You're free to do what makes you happy, and if it's worth it to you, go for it. But it's starting to sound like you aren't very comfortable financially yet.

humbleMouse

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 01:38:30 PM »
Infiniti g37x??  Nissan 350z??  300zx???? 

Few things here,

1) You don't make that much money.
2) There are tons of sweet "fun" cars on craigslist for less than 10k.  If you really have to have a nice fun car, take a credit union loan out and buy a cheaper car on craigslist.

3) What kind of car is it?!?  Makes a big difference if it will hold its value or not.  My guess is that your choice of car is not a good one, or else you would have stated what it is you want to buy. 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 01:39:51 PM »
If you're dead set on a fun roadster, DO buy a miata. You should be able to get a great fun one for $4k. Save up the cash first though!

marielle

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 01:43:26 PM »
You can get something fun to drive for $5k. Why not go for something that may look a little beat up but mechanically is in great condition? You already have the everyday car, you just want something fun to drive.

Think about it like this...right now you're saving 50% of your take home pay. Buying this car you want essentially means your saving rate for an entire year will be nearly 0%. That is essentially how the math works out when you consider your after tax income and if you were to buy the car in cash. Maybe WORSE since you're talking about taking a loan out...and loans on used cars do not have low rates!

acepedro45

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 01:44:07 PM »
I would try to separate the decision to buy a car and the decision about financing it.

First, figure out if the car is what you want and can afford. Most posters so far seem to be trying to help you with this question.

Quote
...pretty much guaranteed to either stay at the value of the initial purchase price if not increase slightly.

Note: your quote is generally not true for most cars.

Then address the question about if it's better to finance the car or buy it outright only if you've decided the car is a good purchase.


Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 01:47:48 PM »
Definitely not a good "investment", but everyone has hobbies.  On the other hand, consider the hole you JUST dug out of.  Do you want to get into the habit of financing after all the work you did previously?

I'm interested in buying a classic car eventually, probably a Studebaker.  However, if/when I ever get to the point where I can justify it financially, I wouldn't spend more than $10k and would fix it up / restore it to make it worth more.

Maybe it would be more Mustachian if you could get one super cheap then restore?

What is the car btw?

Honda s2000

Studebaker ! My Grandpa had a studebaker hawk that I can remember him working on back in the 80's. Cool cars !

Vindicated

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 01:54:32 PM »

Honda s2000


IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it.  Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.

However, I don't think you're thinking clearly.  Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt?  I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger.  Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.

neo von retorch

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 01:55:55 PM »
I'm way ahead of you in savings and income. In mid-2015, I bought a 2006 350Z w/ 36k on it for $13,900. Sold it a year later for $13,500. Yes I financed it (1.49%). No, I don't recommend financing, and I think you should try to "delay gratification" for now. I think it's something that's OK to do (buy a fun car) but you're just a little early on the curve right now.

Why shouldn't I finance it at like 2%?!

Over a 5 year period, you're guaranteed to lose money to interest. It's a complete toss-up if you'll make or lose money in investments. It's just too short of a time period, completely different from a 30 year mortgage. Plus, you're early on that curve. You need to get used to having saved up for things, and practice being a frugal person. Then you'll have earned the reward of a fun car that you can buy with cash, while still forging briskly forward on your journey to FIRE.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 01:56:26 PM »
I completely understand the reservation about my comment " the car will hold it's value" but if you look at the value of the Honda s2000 - it has not decreased in value since about 3-4 yrs ago. Could that happen? Sure anything is possible but I don't see it happening. Especially since the new planned replacement from Honda is not going to be a similar vehicle.

I remember looking at and test driving a 2005 s2000 for 16k with 60k. That was back in 2013. Today 4/5/2017 - Similar cars are 16-18k - sometimes more at 20k plus.

read more about that here.
http://jalopnik.com/why-the-honda-s2000-is-a-future-classic-840861367

It's a future classic !


Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 02:00:07 PM »

Honda s2000


IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it.  Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.

However, I don't think you're thinking clearly.  Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt?  I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger.  Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.

Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.

Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !

Vindicated

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 02:01:20 PM »
It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 02:02:15 PM »

Honda s2000


IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it.  Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.

However, I don't think you're thinking clearly.  Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt?  I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger.  Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.

Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.

Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !

You can get much nicer/faster motorcycles much cheaper.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 02:02:33 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2017, 02:02:53 PM »
How about a bicycle of some sort instead?


Already have one. Not the same unless a bicycle has an engine strapped to it haha

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2017, 02:04:06 PM »
It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.


Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...


Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2017, 02:05:18 PM »

Honda s2000


IF you can find one to fix up for under $10k, I would consider it.  Because then it could be considered an "investment"... sort of.

However, I don't think you're thinking clearly.  Didn't you just sell off a bunch of car stuff to pay off debt?  I think this is an emotional decision that you need to step back from and think about for ~6 months before pulling the trigger.  Hopefully that 6 months will give you the time to save the $10k to spend on a restoration project.

Ugh yes. I am recently debt free. The idea of a car payment again sounds like no fun.

Meh...I need a different hobby lol Cars/motorcycles are too damn expensive !

You can get much nicer/faster motorcycles much cheaper.

Don't tempt me haha.

neo von retorch

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2017, 02:06:11 PM »
I didn't realize you could predict the future... you'll be massively rich in a couple months anyway ;)

In all seriousness, where's your budget spreadsheet showing your income, expenses, savings, investment returns and time until FIRE?

When you subtract the car payment, car insurance, maintenance, restoration and weekend fuel costs, how much time does it add to your working career?

Vindicated

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2017, 02:07:01 PM »
It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.


Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...

I've wanted a Studebaker for about 2 years now.  I still see many 50-60's models that I've been lusting after available.  I'm sure they'll still be available in 10 years when I can actually afford one.

Check this out:
Quick update ! I'm officially (well as soon as it clears my bank) going to be cc debt free ! I owe no one!!!!! So stoked !

I had a nice break and was able to sell off some of my car parts that I really did not want to part with but the money was nice to have !

No more vw bug project...sad day. Oh well, when the time is right me and the fiancÚ will be ready !

I proposed to the better half about a week ago. She said yes ! We are on the fence about having a wedding or just getting eloped and saving our money.

We have been looking at houses but we have both decided to keep saving and rent. It's just not cost effective / make sense for our life(s) to buy right now. Maybe one day...

She is working on her debt but still it's a much bigger mountain to climb. I plan to help her every step of the way that I possibly can !

Just thought I'd share. It's a really great feeling to not owe any credit card companies. I don't think I have been here since possibly 99 when I got my first credit card.

use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2017, 02:07:37 PM »
An S2000 doesn't even remotely strike me as a "classic" that will retain its value or even go up.

In that year/price range id be looking at an 03/04 mustang cobra. I would find those as way more likely to go up in value (have been already) as there were many less produced.. and way faster.

I actually may be in the market for one soon, although I'd be selling my paid off truck to buy that and  add for cash.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2017, 02:09:24 PM »
It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash.


Or I could pay for one financed with a 1-2 % loan? Or save up a couple yrs and watch the prices go up / choices start to slowly dwindle away...



You're giving yourself false choices here.

How about you shift the hobby, so you take the emotion out of it? I REALLY WANT a specific gaited horse. (those are horses that have an 'extra' gait, not just walk/trot/canter, very smooth, but limited blood lines). The horse I want is $25k. That's half of what I make in a year. BUT, it's a great bloodline! It'll like almost totally keep value on it! But, I don't have the money right now. Should I borrow money to buy this horse? Even though there will be some maintenance costs? This is my ONE CHANCE to get into this bloodline, otherwise it will cost more later and there will be less selection, no one will be selling!

Do you see now? No, I should wait, and then buy a different horse. Yes, I want *this* horse, and *this* bloodline. But it's just not the right time. I need to wait, and buy a different horse. Even if it's not exactly the horse I want, it will still be an awesome horse, and I'll be in a much better financial position.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2017, 02:11:57 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.


What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.

I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)

use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2017, 02:12:56 PM »
What's your net worth?

ketchup

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2017, 02:13:43 PM »
I completely understand the reservation about my comment " the car will hold it's value" but if you look at the value of the Honda s2000 - it has not decreased in value since about 3-4 yrs ago. Could that happen? Sure anything is possible but I don't see it happening. Especially since the new planned replacement from Honda is not going to be a similar vehicle.

I remember looking at and test driving a 2005 s2000 for 16k with 60k. That was back in 2013. Today 4/5/2017 - Similar cars are 16-18k - sometimes more at 20k plus.

read more about that here.
http://jalopnik.com/why-the-honda-s2000-is-a-future-classic-840861367

It's a future classic !
A 2005 was $16k in 2005, and $16k in 2017.  Fine.  What will it be worth in 2025?  2030? Maybe $16k, maybe more, but also possibly $3-5k or less.  Or 0 if a distracted teenager hits you.  You can justify a purchase like this in a lot of ways, but "investment" is hardly a logical one.  It's an expense.

If you truly did only get out of debt last November (and had been there a long time), I think you need to enjoy that a bit longer before you even consider going into debt for something that's strictly-speaking optional.  My car is worth about 2% of my net worth, and I think that's too much (as in too little on the net worth side).

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2017, 02:15:12 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.


What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.

I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)

Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2017, 02:16:52 PM »
I didn't realize you could predict the future... you'll be massively rich in a couple months anyway ;)

In all seriousness, where's your budget spreadsheet showing your income, expenses, savings, investment returns and time until FIRE?

When you subtract the car payment, car insurance, maintenance, restoration and weekend fuel costs, how much time does it add to your working career?

Roughly 2.5 yrs. Ugh...you jerks are killing my car hobby lol

You guys/gals are right. It just doesn't make sense financially right now.

I keep hearing my pops saying grumbly "just do the right thing ya big dummy" in his quasi red fox impersonation. 

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2017, 02:21:15 PM »
An S2000 doesn't even remotely strike me as a "classic" that will retain its value or even go up.

In that year/price range id be looking at an 03/04 mustang cobra. I would find those as way more likely to go up in value (have been already) as there were many less produced.. and way faster.

I actually may be in the market for one soon, although I'd be selling my paid off truck to buy that and  add for cash.


It will be a classic for my generation and the right customer who is interested in Honda / Japanese vehicles. It's what most would consider the pinnacle of Honda engineering at the time. Well that and the NSX.

The terminator is another one of those cars that I can only see going up in value. Hard to find a clean and especially stock 03/04 cobra though. Never thought I would see the day where foxbody and even sn95 mustangs are starting to gain in value.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2017, 02:23:50 PM »
If you save as much as you say you do, why not just pay cash for it?
It's never smart to borrow and pay interest for a toy.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2017, 02:25:37 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.


What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.

I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)

Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.


Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancÚ is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.

Thanks for the help all !

rg422

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2017, 02:29:58 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

tralfamadorian

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2017, 02:30:18 PM »
To play devil's advocate, perhaps instead of being a sure thing future classic, used car values are staying high because lax auto lending standards along with recording breaking loan lengths and market penetration are artificially propping up used car prices.

nifty chart demonstrating rise in US auto loan volume:
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/HkWXZyBFl

Bracken_Joy

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2017, 02:32:45 PM »
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.

Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)

marielle

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2017, 02:34:51 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.

How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?

Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !

use2betrix

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2017, 02:37:52 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.


What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.

I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)

Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.


Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancÚ is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.

Thanks for the help all !

Yeah, if your fiancÚ isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.

I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2017, 02:38:50 PM »
To play devil's advocate, perhaps instead of being a sure thing future classic, used car values are staying high because lax auto lending standards along with recording breaking loan lengths and market penetration are artificially propping up used car prices.

nifty chart demonstrating rise in US auto loan volume:
https://www.theatlas.com/charts/HkWXZyBFl


THis makes sense if you don't have any knowledge about classic cars.

This is primarily due to defaulting on car loans , subprime auto loan market is basically at the highest threshold that it's been in a long time. I don't think that however will have any adverse effect on classic / highly desirable cars. I could be wrong...I have been wrong before ^_^

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2017, 02:43:59 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

I think you may be in the wrong forum. Also, it's not like half the current decent S2000s will be gone in two more years...Or even five to ten years. You yourself bought a much older rare-ish car. There will always be more S2000s.


lol really ? Tell that to mustang / Camaro / bell air / fuck any classic muscle car when they dumped them when gas shot up in the 70s

I can't tell you how many stories I've heard from people over the years who are of that age group who regret selling that "gto,mustang,vette" etc and buying a econobox back then.

It's the same thing here with the s2000, supra, rx7, nsx, skyline, etc take your pic of pre bubble Japanese engineering.

They will be gaining in value for some years to come as my generation and the generation after me pines for them.

I may not know crap about the stock market but I do know my cars.

Still doesn't mean I'm going to pull the trigger on one (for now at least). I think for me I'm going to get myself a bit more squared away financially and revist this topic in a year or two. Hopefully s2000's will be in my price range and not impossible to find - ala mkiv supra turbo, fd rx7 (to an extent - rotary reliability is a gift/curse lol) , sw20 mr2.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2017, 02:45:36 PM »
Kevin, I think you're wrapped on the question of "which car" not, "should I buy a car". You're getting caught up in wanting to discuss the car. The car is not the point. The debt for something you by definition DO NOT NEED is the point.

It's a future classic !

I believe it very well could be, but you need to save up for this.  It's not something you need to move on now or you'll miss your opportunity.  You'll be able to find a s2000 in 5 years when you have significant savings and can pay for one in cash. 

Exactly this.

Believe me, there are lots of car people around. And when you're in a place to buy, we will happily chat all damn day about WHICH car. But that time is not now. =( Sorry. It just wouldn't be a good move at this point. No matter the car.


What time would you consider the best? Having FU money ? That is a long way off - at least 10 yrs with my last round of FIRE calculations.

I see your point but I also see the time as now (if not then in the near future - within this year most likely)

Personally, I would wait until I had been maxing all tax advantaged space for at least a year, possibly 2, to make sure it's sustainable. I would *certainly* get past things like a wedding first. And if children are on the horizon? Run the numbers. 50% SR now doesn't mean 50% SR forever, especially if you're about to marry someone who also has debt. Because then you're a team. Even if it isn't legally your debt (depends on your state, etc), it's still your debt in 'spirit'.


Thanks. Yeah I need to get my head out of the clouds. Maybe revisit this idea in 2 yrs or so. We are not having kids. I think a better goal for myself and my fiancÚ is for us both to be financially debt free and then look at a fun toy.

Thanks for the help all !

Yeah, if your fiancÚ isn't debt free, then "you're" not debt free. May not he married yet, but obviously plan on it, in which case you are a team of one.

I was lucky my wife has zero debt, but the trade off is that she also doesn't work since she travels with me for my contract work. I broke even on the financial end of that arrangement lol.

So very true ! Not fun but we are a team and I'm her to help her however much I can !

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2017, 02:48:08 PM »
Glad to see you pull through it! And I feel for you, I REALLY do. We just very nearly pulled the trigger on an '88 BMW 325i, super fun little guy, e30. But it just... didn't make sense. Total nostalgia car for my husband though, was his first car. And we were only talking like $3-4k there! Still didn't make sense for us though.

Sometimes, being responsible hurts a bit =\ I think of it as the "sting of adulthood". But kudos to having the self-control and reasoning to take a hard look at it and make the 'grown up' choice. =)

Thank you very much ! It's sure not easy but doing the right thing hardly ever is. My fiancÚ has a point my car ADD is so ridiculous that I honestly should just wait another 1-2 yrs to see if I even still want an s2000 lol

Also on that e30 - unless it's a complete pile of crap. 3-4k if it has zero rust and a good mechanicaly sound drivetrain is a steal. Those cars are also climbing in value. Try and find an e30 m3 for under 20k, clean title  - almost impossible !


rg422

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2017, 02:53:52 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.

How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?

Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !


Lightstream process is simple. Fill out the application on their website. You then receive an email within 24 hours if approved. They just required pics of pay stubs; they didn't care what kind of car I was buying.

A Supra is far from a Mustachian-type of car, but only those who know of it will understand.

Kevin S.

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Re: financing a car
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2017, 02:59:16 PM »
I would do it, given the circumstance.

I'm a car guy myself and do understand where you're coming from. I was in a similar situation a couple years back. In short, I financed a 1994 Toyota Supra with 57K miles in original condition for 32K; I didn't have that kind cash lying around. Financed for 60 months 1.99% through Lighstream, though I paid it off in January. The MKIV Supra market has appreciated A LOT since then and I do see the S2000 doing the same.

Of course we cannot tell the future, but the S2000 is a unique car. It's a hell of a car for the money and production numbers were fairly low. What other motor out there can rev to 9,000 rpm and have Honda reliability below 100K? There's a ton of young Honda enthusiasts out there that will drive the demand up.

If you can get a low interest rate, I would do it (check out Lightstream.com). Life is short.

- Richard

Prior to making this thread I had looked at lightstream. Had a good friend get his classic Ferrari financed through them.

How was your process? Did you have to prove that you had equity / investments, etc ?

Also pics of that mkiv supra please! One of my dream cars !


Lightstream process is simple. Fill out the application on their website. You then receive an email within 24 hours if approved. They just required pics of pay stubs; they didn't care what kind of car I was buying.

A Supra is far from a Mustachian-type of car, but only those who know of it will understand.


Sounds like a very simple process. I will look into them when the time is ready.

Beautiful Supra. Hope you enjoy it ! My fiancÚ is a big Toyota fan (as am I). She has a 89 Toyota corolla alltrac wagon that we take to the local cars&coffee just for fun. Just over 200k , burns a little oil at start up but perfect otherwise !

looks just like this