Financial advisors?

[dock28]

My wife and I have been working toward financial independence for about a decade now. According to my calculations, I think we could probably stop working within the next couple of years if we choose to. As we continually get closer to that point, I think it would be a good idea for us to hire a fiduciary financial advisor to examine our plan and help us identify any potential pitfalls or other things we might be overlooking. Ideally, this would be someone who specializes in early retirement strategies (like the Roth conversion ladder) and tax planning for people in our situation. Do you have suggestions on where to find advisors like this? Thanks!

[reeshau]

If you are looking for a one-time checkup, and then maybe more, start with members of the Garrett Planning Network.  All are fee-only advisors (a requirement for membership) although that can still mean a percentage of assets.  You can find fixed fee advisors here, too.

I don't think there is any data-based way to say "FIRE friendly," but I can say that the advisor I consulted with at the pending birth of my son was not phased with an idea that I would retire at 50.  (48 was the actual age that I retired)  Some areas of the country can be pretty sparsely covered, though.

Another large fee-only network is the XY planning network.  However, their fee structure is a retainer model, so a monthly subscription.  But still, fixed rate.

[MDM]

How To: Write a "Case Study" Topic
Asking Portfolio Questions - Bogleheads.org
Some Important Questions to Answer Before Asking - Can I Retire?

[Sandi_k]

Has anyone tried Nectarine Advisors yet? $150 per hour, flat fee. I heard about them on a couple of podcasts...

https://hellonectarine.com/

[dock28]

If you are looking for a one-time checkup, and then maybe more, start with members of the Garrett Planning Network.  All are fee-only advisors (a requirement for membership) although that can still mean a percentage of assets.  You can find fixed fee advisors here, too.

I don't think there is any data-based way to say "FIRE friendly," but I can say that the advisor I consulted with at the pending birth of my son was not phased with an idea that I would retire at 50.  (48 was the actual age that I retired)  Some areas of the country can be pretty sparsely covered, though.

Another large fee-only network is the XY planning network.  However, their fee structure is a retainer model, so a monthly subscription.  But still, fixed rate.

Thanks for this! Much appreciated.

[lhamo]

I think PlanVision's model looks interesting and am planning on giving it a try once the financial details of my divorce are all finalized.  I know how things are being split, but I'd rather wait until all the accounts are divided so I only have to enter my information once.

https://planvisionmn.com/

They have a money-back guarantee.

[blueberrybushes]

dock28,

I have never used a FP, but I have dealt alot with brokerage advisors.  Some good, some bad.  None of them really understood my situation and goals.  They tended to throw out the standard recommendations that did not make sense to me (and, when challenged, could not back up their recommendations against what I wanted to do).

So, my suggestion is simply this.  if you are willing to pay a fee-based FP (at $150-200/hr) for advice, why not "pay" yourself first and do the research, thinking, etc. and develop a plan as if you did not have an FP.  Yes, this requires some work on your part which is the same work the FP should ask you to do.  Once you have a plan, if you decide to still seek an FP for advice, you will be prepared to ask questions about the plan they suggest.

I get it - the future is full of vaguaries and it is easier to let someone else guide you.  Become very good at internet searches to ask questions about planning for FIRE and what that really means.

To do anything else is letting them lead you blindly.  Not a good plan IMO.

PW

[dock28]

So, my suggestion is simply this.  if you are willing to pay a fee-based FP (at $150-200/hr) for advice, why not "pay" yourself first and do the research, thinking, etc. and develop a plan as if you did not have an FP.  Yes, this requires some work on your part which is the same work the FP should ask you to do.  Once you have a plan, if you decide to still seek an FP for advice, you will be prepared to ask questions about the plan they suggest.

Thank you. I totally understand what you're saying, but I believe I'm already at the stage you describe. I've done research and developed a detailed plan over the past several years, and I have confidence that it will work. However, as we get closer to FI, I'd like someone else to review the plan in case I'm making a mistake somewhere or missing something I haven't thought of. Based on whatever feedback I receive, I will gladly do more research in those areas and revise the plan if needed. Spending a few hundred bucks for this service seems worth it to me, as long as it's from someone who has the right expertise.

[FLBiker]

I totally understand what you're saying, but I believe I'm already at the stage you describe. I've done research and developed a detailed plan over the past several years, and I have confidence that it will work. However, as we get closer to FI, I'd like someone else to review the plan in case I'm making a mistake somewhere or missing something I haven't thought of. Based on whatever feedback I receive, I will gladly do more research in those areas and revise the plan if needed. Spending a few hundred bucks for this service seems worth it to me, as long as it's from someone who has the right expertise.

This makes sense to me, and I've thought the same thing myself, but I haven't actually done it.  We have a kind of complicated situation (US / Canada dual citizens, most of our investments are in the US, planning to stay in Canada) and I've met with a few folks who specialize in that for intro meetings.  I didn't end up engaging them (even though they seemed good) simply because I didn't think they could add anything.  I came away from those intro meetings feeling like I knew enough to take us forward.  I also asked them for samples of the kinds of drawdown modelling they did, and I was underwhelmed.  My own work in Excel is nothing fancy, but I feel like it is better for us.  Ultimately, I think there's a lot of truth to the fact that no one is going to care more about your financial situation than you do.

That being said, part of my estate planning documents is a 1 page overview of what we have, the rules of the various accounts, what order you'd want to draw it down (roughly) and the contact info for a couple of the financial planners that seemed good to me.  I'm very interested in this stuff, but my wife isn't, so for her it would make much more sense (and provide more piece of mind) to have an advisor.

So you could at least do the intro meetings, go in with some specific questions and ask for some samples of the types of analyses you're hoping to get.  That should give you a good sense of whether or not they're a good fit for you.

[dock28]

So you could at least do the intro meetings, go in with some specific questions and ask for some samples of the types of analyses you're hoping to get.  That should give you a good sense of whether or not they're a good fit for you.

Great advice. Thank you!

[lhamo]

IIRC if you have an account at Fidelity and are anywhere near one of their in-person offices you can make appointments with their advisors for free to look your plans over.  I think @Tass may have done this recently and might have comments on how it works/whether it was helpful.

[2sk22]

IIRC if you have an account at Fidelity and are anywhere near one of their in-person offices you can make appointments with their advisors for free to look your plans over.  I think @Tass may have done this recently and might have comments on how it works/whether it was helpful.

If you have over a threshold (I don't recall the exact amount), fidelity assigns a dedicated rep who can help suggest investments and guide you in the use of their retirement planner. I have such an assigned rep and they are very helpful but they are not financial advisors as such. You can sign up for in-house fidelity financial advice but that's not free and is charged on an AUM basis.

[Tasse]

IIRC if you have an account at Fidelity and are anywhere near one of their in-person offices you can make appointments with their advisors for free to look your plans over.  I think @Tass may have done this recently and might have comments on how it works/whether it was helpful.

If you really want a big-picture look from someone familiar with early retirement, I would ask ahead if they have someone who has experience with that before setting up a meeting. The guy we talked to was a Certified Financial Planner and was able to answer some technical questions about 401k rollovers, which was helpful, but in terms of specific plans he mostly defaulted to "typical" advice.

For example:
Me: I have the ability to contribute Roth dollars to my 403b, what are your thoughts on that?
Him: At 30 it's a great idea to do that. The average American* pulls their pretax money back out in the 24% tax bracket.
Me: We expect to retire in the 12/15% tax bracket, which is the same as where we are right now, so I'm not sure that's really an advantage.
Him: But with a Roth, the growth is tax-free.
Me: Yes, but that's pretty neatly offset by the tax savings now if you invest the difference.
Him: Ah, well, most people don't invest the difference.

Basically, he didn't tell me much I didn't already know, and I seriously doubt he would have been able to discuss the minutiae of (for example) Roth conversions to generate taxable income to get optimal ACA subsidies.

*I'm pretty sure he said average American, but I think he must have meant their average customer, or maybe just the average American with a 401k... no way is the average American in the 24% tax bracket in retirement.

[erp]

It sounds like what you're looking for is a bit like having a second set of eyes on a plan you're reasonably confident of, and maybe someone to ask weirdly technical questions that are specific to your life? If that's what you're looking for, I think the key word you're looking for might be ad-hoc fee-only financial planning.

I was able to set up sessions with a Canadian shop to do that, and talk to them every ~ 3 years or so. All told I think it's about $300-500 CAD, but they walk me through relatively specific answers to questions around our family dynamics and give me any insight they can about my investment plan. I'd usually provide a summary of my accounts & balances, a document which details what I'm doing (goals, approaches, risks), and a list of general question areas. I would recommend being really explicit about what you're looking for (mention FIRE if that's one of your goals), because I talked to a few companies before I got one who were happy to provide insight for my specifics.

It's hard to say for sure whether I've gotten a ton of actionable advice out of these sessions. I have gotten some peace of mind, and at less than $200/yr that feels like pretty good value. Realistically, if you hire someone and learn nothing then you can take that as proof that you know enough to baffle the professionals.

[dock28]

It sounds like what you're looking for is a bit like having a second set of eyes on a plan you're reasonably confident of, and maybe someone to ask weirdly technical questions that are specific to your life?

You hit the nail on the head here! This is exactly what I'm looking for. I think my FIRE plan is pretty solid, but I would like a second set of eyes on it, and I do have some specific questions -- mostly related to tax stuff. I could always try posting some of these questions on a forum like this one, but they're probably difficult for anyone to answer without understanding the entire plan.

And I agree with you -- getting some additional peace of mind and/or confirming I know as much as (or more than) a professional wouldn't be a terrible thing.

[blueberrybushes]

Glad you have done your research and just looking for a second set of eyes..

Like TASS, I have enough $$ with Fidelity and was assigned a Financial Consultant.  The fellow and his team are good about staying in touch and have offered a couple of things - mostly geared towards still working, higher income people.  I don't fit the standard template in just about every way, so I don't take (or can't use) their advice very often.  They give recommendations though which I can research.

[Tasse]

I'm Tass... TASS is a state-run Russian news agency. To my chagrin. Didn't know that until many years after picking my username.

[Nutty]

I'm glad you had success, although limited, with Fidelity.  I was educating my third advisor on what I wanted and he was researching but not adding benefit.  The first two were clueless.  He or Fidelity pushed me to the managed advisors and I got the spiel and politely declined after being told of their advantages.  I explained again what I wanted and got the playbook.

I am searching for a fee based advisor to answer specific questions, so thank you for starting this and the leads posted above.  I wish you success.

[blueberrybushes]

Sorry Tass,

No disrespect intended when I capitalized all 4 letters.  Please don't hold it against me.   :)

Paul

[reeshau]

An Edward Jones rep that recently moved his office to my neighborhood rang our doorbell yesterday--despite our no soliciting sign.  (Rarely have I seen the hardy soles left going door-to-door honor those)  Had a bit of a pun for an opener: I want to see if you have a hole in your financial plan.  (While offering a donut from a box he was carrying)

It was kind of like the Jehova's Witnesses of financial planning, but I was in a playful mood, so I engaged him.

It was fun, but not for me.  Relevant to this thread, though: he said they would be rolling out a fee-based planning service, sometime this summer.  This guy was not a CFP, and he didn't have much detail beyond the rumor.  But for those who don't have many choices near them, this may become one.  (My tiny hometown of 10,000, county seat in a rural area, has 4 Edward Jones offices)