Author Topic: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?  (Read 8926 times)

Melisande

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Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« on: November 03, 2016, 08:13:29 AM »
My husband has signed us up for a meeting with a TIAA financial advisor. Why? Because he happened to get chatted up by a TIAA financial advisor who was hanging out in his department office between meetings she had with other colleagues. She gave him a 5-minute unscheduled advice session and told him that he should set up a real meeting with one of her colleagues.

In the 5 minutes he talked with this first advisor, I think he got some good and some bad advice.

The good: Since we have so much in our savings and checking accounts ($ 60,000), we don't need to have an extra $50,000 in a Money Market. It should be invested in a higher risk/higher return fund. (Actually, I have told him this quite a few times in the past, but apparently since I am merely a wife and not a financial advisor, I tend not to get listened to as much.)

The bad: She told him that he should retire at 67 instead of 65 and he seems to be taking this new line of thinking very seriously and has in fact stated that he will now retire at 67 (I suppose just because this advisor told him too. Before, he was always going on about 65.)

Anyway, I have been tasked with preparing all the financial information we will need for this meeting. But I am leery and not exactly looking forward to it. Last I heard, financial advisors are not legally required to work in their clients' best interest.

I called the guy we have an appointment with and asked him about this and other things. He referenced some kind of company or other regulation saying that indeed they are required to work in our interest. I also asked how he was being paid. He said salary, not commission. However, employees can certainly be pressured to bring in certain results even if they are salaried. Also, he did offer this unsolicited bit of somewhat unsettling "reassurance": "We ask that you share *all* of your financial data with us so we can help you better, not because we're trying to consolidate your investments into our funds." Hmmm -- what makes me think this is exactly what they are going to do?

Any advice for me going into the meeting? (I mean --besides not making any financial decisions/signing anything on the spot -- I already know not to do that.)

Our situation:

Net worth -- 1.7 million.
        Equity -- $175,000
        Investments -- $1,465,000 mostly TIAA-CREF and Vanguard funds.
        Cash --- $60,000

No debt except what is left on our mortgage ($150,000). We have a 3.3% interest rate.

My husband is 59, in good health and has a salary of $217,000 with about $20,000 extra for expenses. He has a very secure position (tenured professor at a large university.)

I no longer work. We have no children, so we don't have to worry about financing their education, but on the other hand, we might have to worry more about self-insuring for future medical calamities.

Ideally, I'd like us to have an in-depth discussion about how we can use what we have to live optimally. I'm afraid that the financial advisor will just send the message that we need more money.

So, again, any advice?





boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 08:26:56 AM »
how much do you spend.  i'm guess a lot due to 240k in income and only 1.5MM in the bank.  thats enough for 60k in spending annually.  spending is the thing here.

Frugalman19

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 08:27:45 AM »
I would make sure he is a certified financial planner. Then by law he does have to do what's in your best interest.

You do need to bring all of your information, or he will not be giving you proper advice. That is true.

Just tell him after the meeting that you have no plans on consolidating your accounts with them. Tell him you are into Vanguard index funds with little fees. He will understand.

Just pick his brain with your questions, most people on MMM have very little need for a financial advisor because they are typically more risky with investments and understand market fluctuation. So when he was telling your husband to retire at 67, that was just being overly cautious and speaking in general terms.

His main goal is to get your Vanguard account to come over to TIAA under their management. Keep that in mind. He should give you objective financial advice regardless, but that is how they get paid. I would keep my questions about liquidation strategies and not investment allocation.

I am a certified financial planner so I deal with this everyday.

schmerna

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 08:28:30 AM »
I met with a TIAA adviser in the past and it was actually productive.  He did take a look at all accounts for a comprehensive overview, but did not recommend moving everything to TIAA.  I had to repeat many times that I was interested in low fees, then he finally got it and recommended a few things with low fees.

I think he did a soft sell on life insurance which I politely declined.

Does the university offer discounted health insurance to retirees?  Many have very generous plans.

I appreciated an outside view on my overall situation, it was reassuring.

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 08:32:54 AM »
I would make sure he is a certified financial planner. Then by law he does have to do what's in your best interest.

You do need to bring all of your information, or he will not be giving you proper advice. That is true.

Just tell him after the meeting that you have no plans on consolidating your accounts with them. Tell him you are into Vanguard index funds with little fees. He will understand.

Just pick his brain with your questions, most people on MMM have very little need for a financial advisor because they are typically more risky with investments and understand market fluctuation. So when he was telling your husband to retire at 67, that was just being overly cautious and speaking in general terms.

His main goal is to get your Vanguard account to come over to TIAA under their management. Keep that in mind. He should give you objective financial advice regardless, but that is how they get paid. I would keep my questions about liquidation strategies and not investment allocation.

I am a certified financial planner so I deal with this everyday.

this isnt true

rubybeth

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2016, 08:37:23 AM »
I would make sure he is a certified financial planner. Then by law he does have to do what's in your best interest.

No, that's not right. He would need to be a fiduciary, not just a CFP (anyone can get that designation). Ask if he has a fiduciary duty to avoid ethical concerns and conflicts of interest: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-smarter-mutual-fund-investor/2015/03/19/is-your-financial-advisor-a-fiduciary

Also, ask about the fees that would be charged.

And, ask how he gets to his numbers. If he can't explain the modeling that he uses, run, don't walk. You should be able to understand what you're invested in and the strategy behind it. If he can't explain that, it's not worth the risk.

And most importantly, make sure you and your husband are on the same page before going into the meeting.

mskyle

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2016, 08:50:16 AM »
I would make sure he is a certified financial planner. Then by law he does have to do what's in your best interest.

No, that's not right. He would need to be a fiduciary, not just a CFP (anyone can get that designation). Ask if he has a fiduciary duty to avoid ethical concerns and conflicts of interest: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-smarter-mutual-fund-investor/2015/03/19/is-your-financial-advisor-a-fiduciary

Also, ask about the fees that would be charged.

And, ask how he gets to his numbers. If he can't explain the modeling that he uses, run, don't walk. You should be able to understand what you're invested in and the strategy behind it. If he can't explain that, it's not worth the risk.

And most importantly, make sure you and your husband are on the same page before going into the meeting.

Also, I hate to say it, but someone can be a fiduciary and still make not-great decisions for you. A fiduciary can genuinely believe for good reasons that you should be pursuing a riskier or more conservative plan than you actually want. If there were only one path that was obviously, provably "in your best interest" you wouldn't need a financial planner in the first place.

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2016, 08:55:15 AM »
here you can go print your own CFP certificate
http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/social/facebook/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver/FINANCE_CERTIFICATE.jpg

i know countless people who truly believe they are doing right by there clients but you are the only one who knows what to do with your money and what your needs are.  and really this stuff is not that hard to learn yourself

Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2016, 09:36:42 AM »
Thanks, I am still processing the suggestions/information in this thread.

how much do you spend.  i'm guess a lot due to 240k in income and only 1.5MM in the bank.  thats enough for 60k in spending annually.  spending is the thing here.

I can say this right off the bat however. Yes!!!! We do spend a lot. Even too much?  Maybe? Probably? Depends on your perspective. We spend more than I would like. (This is one reason why I am on this forum and my husband isn't.) My husband and I have had conflicts about financial philosophy on and off throughout our 28 year marriage.  But in the past few years i have come to peace with the situation.

My husband is a firm believer in "money is for spending." However, he also thinks consumer debt is stupid, understands financial basics, and has shown the capacity to economize when we need to (when he is on half pay for sabbatical; when we were saving up for a down payment). He is also aware of developing expensive habits. So, for him it is fine to splurge on vacation, but it is not Ok to splurge on an everyday basis. For him the very act of spending money is connected in his brain to "having a good time" and "making something special." In fact, for our last anniversary, I suggested something less expensive we could do and he came back with: "If we don't spend a lot of money, I won't feel like we will have really celebrated." On the plus side, he is totally not OK with spending a lot of money on an everyday basis.

Also, he earns $217,000 + now, but we only broke the $200,000 mark a few years ago and as little as 7 years ago he was making considerably less ($110,000) and supporting me as I earned a Ph.D. in the humanities which wound generating really not that much money (not that making a lot of money was my goal).

So long story short, while I'm not fully on board with his spending philosophy, at least it is somewhat sane and normal and, since he has made by far the most money over our marriage, I really don't feel like I have a lot of moral leverage.

CareCPA

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2016, 09:50:54 AM »
here you can go print your own CFP certificate
http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/social/facebook/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver/FINANCE_CERTIFICATE.jpg

i know countless people who truly believe they are doing right by there clients but you are the only one who knows what to do with your money and what your needs are.  and really this stuff is not that hard to learn yourself
You do realize a CFP designation is an actual certification requiring testing and multiple years of proven experience, right?
Anyone can be a "financial advisor," but a CFP is an actual certification.

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2016, 09:57:29 AM »
here you can go print your own CFP certificate
http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/social/facebook/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver/FINANCE_CERTIFICATE.jpg

i know countless people who truly believe they are doing right by there clients but you are the only one who knows what to do with your money and what your needs are.  and really this stuff is not that hard to learn yourself
You do realize a CFP designation is an actual certification requiring testing and multiple years of proven experience, right?
Anyone can be a "financial advisor," but a CFP is an actual certification.

yes i understand its a peice of paper a corrupt industry has determined makes people who have no financial schooling and could have a history degree eligble to push products people dont need on them inorder to make a profit. 

a CFP can be a fiduciary but does not have to be. 

CareCPA

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2016, 10:11:03 AM »

...In fact, for our last anniversary, I suggested something less expensive we could do and he came back with: "If we don't spend a lot of money, I won't feel like we will have really celebrated." On the plus side, he is totally not OK with spending a lot of money on an everyday basis.

So long story short, while I'm not fully on board with his spending philosophy, at least it is somewhat sane and normal and, since he has made by far the most money over our marriage, I really don't feel like I have a lot of moral leverage.
These are two items that stand out to me. One is he connects spending money with having a good time - this is the fundamental topic you should focus on if you are trying to reduce spending. It has to be done in a way where he doesn't feel deprived.
Second, I know different relationships view money in different ways, but I do not subscribe to the fact that just because one person makes substantially more, they get to choose what to do with all the money. Your views may vary.

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2016, 10:18:27 AM »

...In fact, for our last anniversary, I suggested something less expensive we could do and he came back with: "If we don't spend a lot of money, I won't feel like we will have really celebrated." On the plus side, he is totally not OK with spending a lot of money on an everyday basis.

So long story short, while I'm not fully on board with his spending philosophy, at least it is somewhat sane and normal and, since he has made by far the most money over our marriage, I really don't feel like I have a lot of moral leverage.
These are two items that stand out to me. One is he connects spending money with having a good time - this is the fundamental topic you should focus on if you are trying to reduce spending. It has to be done in a way where he doesn't feel deprived.
Second, I know different relationships view money in different ways, but I do not subscribe to the fact that just because one person makes substantially more, they get to choose what to do with all the money. Your views may vary.

i fight the spending money to good time equation with my wife as well.  its hard but she's getting there.  we travel a ton and i travel hack.  we lived like kings in hawaii for 10days with first class flights and a jeep rental car and 5 star accomodations at the Grand Wailea - valet service required no self park - all of that was free

we spent 1k on the trip doing excursions. 

sometimes i feel like i should just ring up the total cost of the trip without the free stuff and be like this trip cost us 15k and see if she thinks it was MORE fun.

ysette9

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2016, 10:22:55 AM »
To the OP: when is this meeting with the financial advisor? If you have time, I'd recommend posting a case study here and getting the collective insight and wisdom of the internets. That could prepare you with questions and recommendations so you know where you stand before going in.

I have met individually and with my spouse with several different types of financial advisors over the years. Except in the very beginning when I had very little clue what I was doing, I have found them to not be particularly fantastic. We have gotten some nuggets of helpful information here and there, but nothing compares to getting that understanding yourself. I have gotten WAY more out of self educating online and learning from the vast wisdom that exists in this forum and on Bogleheads.

If I were you, I'd post a case study, see what people have to say, and then spend my time doing the background reading to understand WHY people say what they say.

radram

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2016, 10:29:55 AM »
Thanks, I am still processing the suggestions/information in this thread.

how much do you spend.  i'm guess a lot due to 240k in income and only 1.5MM in the bank.  thats enough for 60k in spending annually.  spending is the thing here.

I can say this right off the bat however. Yes!!!! We do spend a lot. Even too much?  Maybe? Probably? Depends on your perspective. We spend more than I would like. (This is one reason why I am on this forum and my husband isn't.) My husband and I have had conflicts about financial philosophy on and off throughout our 28 year marriage.  But in the past few years i have come to peace with the situation.

My husband is a firm believer in "money is for spending." However, he also thinks consumer debt is stupid, understands financial basics, and has shown the capacity to economize when we need to (when he is on half pay for sabbatical; when we were saving up for a down payment). He is also aware of developing expensive habits. So, for him it is fine to splurge on vacation, but it is not Ok to splurge on an everyday basis. For him the very act of spending money is connected in his brain to "having a good time" and "making something special." In fact, for our last anniversary, I suggested something less expensive we could do and he came back with: "If we don't spend a lot of money, I won't feel like we will have really celebrated." On the plus side, he is totally not OK with spending a lot of money on an everyday basis.

Also, he earns $217,000 + now, but we only broke the $200,000 mark a few years ago and as little as 7 years ago he was making considerably less ($110,000) and supporting me as I earned a Ph.D. in the humanities which wound generating really not that much money (not that making a lot of money was my goal).

So long story short, while I'm not fully on board with his spending philosophy, at least it is somewhat sane and normal and, since he has made by far the most money over our marriage, I really don't feel like I have a lot of moral leverage.

I am going to summarize your reply.... you have no idea what you spend.

The reason that is a problem: that is the ONLY number that matters... AT ALL.  If you do not know what you spend, you have no idea whether 1.7 million is enough, or 17 million, or $170,000.  What you MAKE(or made) means absolutely NOTHING.  There is nothing wrong with spending "a lot".  There IS something wrong with not knowing what you spend. It is impossible to plan

You MUST figure out what you spend and what you would LIKE to spend before you know whether to retire st 65, 67, or now at 57. Use the 4% rule (or 3% if you like) to see what stache you need.

As far as your meeting with an advisor, it is not really that important how he/she is paid.  What is very important is what you are CHARGED. It used to be that advisers and brokers got paid buying and selling, so churning was common(rapid buying and selling). It is now well known that is bad for the client, so instead they now say they are fee based.  Sounds better right, but not if the fee is a percentage of assets under management(AUM). 1% is pretty standard.  Can be ok, but only if they outperform indexing by over 1%.  That is hard to do consistently.  You can also notice it is 1% of ASSETS, not a percentage of profits.  That means some years they will charge you to lose money.  Those years really hurt.

Think of it this way: If you have $50,000 and someone else has $5,000,000, should your advice be 100x less valuable than the advice given to the millionaire? If it is the same advice, why are they not charged the same? For this reason I would avoid anyone who charges me a % of AUM.

+1 of the fiduciary qualification.




monstermonster

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 10:37:25 AM »
Also, he earns $217,000 + now, but we only broke the $200,000 mark a few years ago and as little as 7 years ago he was making considerably less ($110,000) and supporting me as I earned a Ph.D. in the humanities which wound generating really not that much money (not that making a lot of money was my goal).
Lol at the "oh but we've only been make $200,000+ year for 7 years, before we were just 2 people trying so hard to support ourselves off a six-figure salary".  You're educated. Step back and think about that in the context of most people in this country, more than half of which's entire household income is less than $52,000 annually. Then think about it in context of the rest of the world. And then never pretend that making six figures was bootstrapping. In the past 7 years, you have had more money pass through your hands than the lifetime earnings of many americans.

Now that I'm done with the reality check, I would recommend shopping around for a financial planner rather than picking up the first one that approaches you at a party. There's different schools of thought on what type of compensation makes a financial planner most "honest" but I personally recommend fee-based.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 10:39:09 AM by monstermonster »

Frugalman19

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 11:03:22 AM »
here you can go print your own CFP certificate
http://www.hbo.com/custom-assets/social/facebook/last-week-tonight-with-john-oliver/FINANCE_CERTIFICATE.jpg

i know countless people who truly believe they are doing right by there clients but you are the only one who knows what to do with your money and what your needs are.  and really this stuff is not that hard to learn yourself
You do realize a CFP designation is an actual certification requiring testing and multiple years of proven experience, right?
Anyone can be a "financial advisor," but a CFP is an actual certification.

yes i understand its a peice of paper a corrupt industry has determined makes people who have no financial schooling and could have a history degree eligble to push products people dont need on them inorder to make a profit. 

a CFP can be a fiduciary but does not have to be.

Who follows the fiduciary standard?

Under federal law, in particular the Investment Advisers Act of 1940, investment advisers are regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) or appropriate state authorities and are required to provide services to their customers under the fiduciary standard. CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professionals providing financial planning services also must abide by the fiduciary standard, as defined by CFP Board.

This is per the CFP board regulations. John Oliver's skit was praising CFP's because there are actual standards to becoming a CFP.

Also, you may have a history degree, but you must take college level courses in financial planning to even be able to sit for the test. So you are incorrect, you must have schooling in finance. In my state the CFP exam has a lower pass rate than the state bar.

How hard is the schooling? Well, SDSU (the #1 business college in CA) accepted the courses as graduate courses and contributed to my graduate degree in finance.

Do you actually look up information before you spew it in forums or do you just guess about stuff? You could not be more wrong.


« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 11:15:34 AM by Awgolfer »

Frugalman19

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2016, 11:05:33 AM »
I would make sure he is a certified financial planner. Then by law he does have to do what's in your best interest.

No, that's not right. He would need to be a fiduciary, not just a CFP (anyone can get that designation). Ask if he has a fiduciary duty to avoid ethical concerns and conflicts of interest: http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/the-smarter-mutual-fund-investor/2015/03/19/is-your-financial-advisor-a-fiduciary

Also, ask about the fees that would be charged.

And, ask how he gets to his numbers. If he can't explain the modeling that he uses, run, don't walk. You should be able to understand what you're invested in and the strategy behind it. If he can't explain that, it's not worth the risk.

And most importantly, make sure you and your husband are on the same page before going into the meeting.

Yes it is, I do this for a living. If you engage in a financial consultation you are held to the fiduciary standard if you are a CFP.

Catbert

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2016, 11:07:25 AM »
Definitely ask why they are recommending 67 as retirement age.  It may be as simple as that's when it's "full" SS for your age group.  That age has been slowly increasing.  If so, it might make sense to delay taking SS until 67 or even 70.  But that doesn't mean he couldn't retire earlier and live on pension (?) and savings.

I would definitely ask if he is a "fiduciary".  This is not an essay question.  The answer is either "yes" or "no".  I'm guessing "no" which is why you'll get an essay answer.  That doesn't mean you couldn't get some good ideas from the rep.  But it is important to understand their bias.

 

RosieTR

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2016, 11:21:51 AM »
I have done a similar meeting with an advisor available through work-funded plans. So yes, he should be fiduciary in your best interest. He's likely paid by TIAA via their management agreement with the university. Asking right upfront will let him know the type of client he's working with, so it's not all dumbed-down. Absolutely get all your financial picture together to present. This may be a soft sell, but it's like the service plan offer after a computer purchase, not like a time-share talk. The biggest drawback I found was they couldn't go younger than like 60 for their Monte Carlo model, so the calcs said we'd have more money than our current earnings! I'd press the guy to clarify why 67 over 65 as a recommendation. If your DH is somewhat spendy, it might be appropriate.


Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2016, 11:28:44 AM »

...In fact, for our last anniversary, I suggested something less expensive we could do and he came back with: "If we don't spend a lot of money, I won't feel like we will have really celebrated." On the plus side, he is totally not OK with spending a lot of money on an everyday basis.

So long story short, while I'm not fully on board with his spending philosophy, at least it is somewhat sane and normal and, since he has made by far the most money over our marriage, I really don't feel like I have a lot of moral leverage.
These are two items that stand out to me. One is he connects spending money with having a good time - this is the fundamental topic you should focus on if you are trying to reduce spending. It has to be done in a way where he doesn't feel deprived.
Second, I know different relationships view money in different ways, but I do not subscribe to the fact that just because one person makes substantially more, they get to choose what to do with all the money. Your views may vary.

i fight the spending money to good time equation with my wife as well.  its hard but she's getting there.  we travel a ton and i travel hack.  we lived like kings in hawaii for 10days with first class flights and a jeep rental car and 5 star accomodations at the Grand Wailea - valet service required no self park - all of that was free

we spent 1k on the trip doing excursions. 

sometimes i feel like i should just ring up the total cost of the trip without the free stuff and be like this trip cost us 15k and see if she thinks it was MORE fun.

We actually do a fair amount of "travel hacking." But also a lot of our travel is time and destination constrained.  We do four kinds of travel: 1) vacations that piggy back on work trips. The advantage to this is that my husband's air fare is paid for through his grants. So, if we want to spend some time, say in Japan, we tack a short vacation onto one of his business trips and we only have to pay my airfare. Also, for the time he is working, the hotel is also paid for through grants (it costs no more to have two people than one person in a room.) The disadvantage, like I said, is that we have little choice as to time and destination. Also, when I come along to dinner with other professors, we have to pay for my meal and we don't usually have that much say in where we're going to eat.

Back in October, we spent 2 weeks in Europe -- one week in France and one in Greece. The first week was a small, private conference in France. It was all inclusive and held at a château which one of my husband's better off colleagues had recently purchased and was trying to turn into a conference center. This kind of thing is not really "hackable," unless I just decided to stay home and totally not participate at all. In Greece, we stayed at a luxury 5 star resort for a week (the conference hotel). My husband's grant covered 5 days out of the 7 and we wound up paying for two extra days -- one at the beginning and one at the end. We could have stayed at a cheaper place for the first and last day (and in fact I used to insist on moving to a cheaper place when we weren't getting reimbursed, until I realized that I was ruining our vacation a little as my husband insisted.)Anyway, the room rate really wasn't that expensive, since it was Greece, towards the end of the tourist season and since the conference had negotiated a lower rate.

2) short birding weekends. We do these between 1x and 3x a month depending on the season. If we know the destination in advance, I work at getting the best hotel rates and places we go frequently we have discovered the places that work for us. However, much of this travel is spur of the moment and totally dependent on where a rare bird is going to be spotted that particular day, so it is almost impossible to plan in advance. However, I have discovered by accident that a good way of getting a great rate in a touristy beach town in Florida in peak season on a long weekend is to stay home Friday night and only make your reservations for the rest of the weekend at past the last minute -- on Saturday morning. It's like buying Halloween candy on Nov. 1st.

 3) Longer, exotic birding trips.  Yes, there are tours that are more or less expensive, but my husband hates going with groups. I used to protest, but due to a rare autoimmune disease I've lost about 40% of my hearing (not correctable with hearing aids) and now have a hard time functioning in groups anyway. So, we hire private guides and drivers, which, I tell you is not cheap.

4) Visiting family. Not at all expensive, particularly since we have a gazillion frequent flyer miles to use up.

Wow, I can't believe how long this post turned out to be. I'd better get back to work on the financial stuff.

Please keep on with the suggestions. I will definitely read them all ...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 11:59:26 AM by Melisande »

ysette9

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2016, 11:49:17 AM »
I suspect there are plenty on this board who are itching to get their hands on your numbers. Since you need to pull all this info together to prepare for your meeting with the financial advisor anyway, why not format it in the case study spreadsheet and share with us nosy people? :)

Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2016, 12:10:46 PM »
I suspect there are plenty on this board who are itching to get their hands on your numbers. Since you need to pull all this info together to prepare for your meeting with the financial advisor anyway, why not format it in the case study spreadsheet and share with us nosy people? :)

I am planning on doing that (although it will take a while to pull everything together), but how do I share the spreadsheet with you all? I mean, what are the mechanics? I'm assuming I just don't cut and paste, so how do I share a file? (Yes, my doctorate was in the humanities, can you tell?)

financiallypossible

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2016, 12:34:02 PM »
Any advice for me going into the meeting? (I mean --besides not making any financial decisions/signing anything on the spot -- I already know not to do that.)

Our situation:

Net worth -- 1.7 million.
        Equity -- $175,000
        Investments -- $1,465,000 mostly TIAA-CREF and Vanguard funds.
        Cash --- $60,000

No debt except what is left on our mortgage ($150,000). We have a 3.3% interest rate.

My husband is 59, in good health and has a salary of $217,000 with about $20,000 extra for expenses. He has a very secure position (tenured professor at a large university.)

I no longer work. We have no children, so we don't have to worry about financing their education, but on the other hand, we might have to worry more about self-insuring for future medical calamities.

Ideally, I'd like us to have an in-depth discussion about how we can use what we have to live optimally. I'm afraid that the financial advisor will just send the message that we need more money.

So, again, any advice?

Is the equity you mention equity in your house? What are your annual expenses? What are your near term and long term financial goals? How much does your husband enjoy his job?

It would be hard to say which questions you should ask of a financial advisor without knowing these details.

ysette9

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2016, 12:36:32 PM »
You should be able to just upload an attachment to your reply when you post on this thread. Other posters have also put the main info (spending, assets, liabilities, etc.) in the post itself in a bulleted format. Feel free to pull up some other case studies in this section as examples.

Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 01:09:06 PM »
You should be able to just upload an attachment to your reply when you post on this thread. Other posters have also put the main info (spending, assets, liabilities, etc.) in the post itself in a bulleted format. Feel free to pull up some other case studies in this section as examples.

Thanks! I'll have a look.

Any advice for me going into the meeting? (I mean --besides not making any financial decisions/signing anything on the spot -- I already know not to do that.)

Our situation:

Net worth -- 1.7 million.
        Equity -- $175,000
        Investments -- $1,465,000 mostly TIAA-CREF and Vanguard funds.
        Cash --- $60,000

No debt except what is left on our mortgage ($150,000). We have a 3.3% interest rate.

My husband is 59, in good health and has a salary of $217,000 with about $20,000 extra for expenses. He has a very secure position (tenured professor at a large university.)

I no longer work. We have no children, so we don't have to worry about financing their education, but on the other hand, we might have to worry more about self-insuring for future medical calamities.

Ideally, I'd like us to have an in-depth discussion about how we can use what we have to live optimally. I'm afraid that the financial advisor will just send the message that we need more money.

So, again, any advice?

Is the equity you mention equity in your house? What are your annual expenses? What are your near term and long term financial goals? How much does your husband enjoy his job?

It would be hard to say which questions you should ask of a financial advisor without knowing these details.

Yes, the equity is in our house. We only "own" one. It would have been a lot more, but we live in a sandbox state, bought the current house in 2007 near the height of the housing bubble and got totally whapped. The house's value is *still* below where is was when we bought it. At least, it's only 10% down -- at one point, it had lost more than 45% of its value (according to Zillow).

One thing I have to prepare for the financial advisor is a detailed monthly budget with one column for needs and one for extras. It's slow going, but I'm making progress. We have literally never made a budget before so I am starting from scratch and every once in a while resorting to a little guess work. I only have the checks and credit card statements, so I know how much we spent in each store or at each restaurant, but sometimes it's hard to know if the money was spent for extras or for necessities. (Example: Depending on your situation, eating out can be more or less a necessity. On the other hand, some things we get at the local food store can be extras.) Doing my best though.

My long term financial goals are to be comfortable enough not to have to go back to work during later in life. I frankly do not care if we travel that much. We have done so much already. I'm not sure what my husband's financial goals are. He comes up with silly, wildly impractical "goals" when I ask him. I'm pretty sure he either realizes they are silly or will realize they are ridiculous when he gets around to actually thinking about it. Basically, it's a really nice way of saying: "Shut up! I don't want to talk about it!" Hopefully, he will start getting serious about it when we see the advisor.

Yes, he likes his job to a large extent. I think it makes up a large part of his identity. He might actually want to work past 65 -- I wouldn't be that surprised if this were the case. He has also brought up the possibilty of starting a business based on his research with me as his partner. I told him that if he really wanted to start a business, I'd be supportive, but I didn't want to be a partner (I mean, I have no expertise either in business or in his field). This is the only time in the last 3 years or so that he's been really angry with me. But seriously, I just don't want to be a partner in some engineering business. It's a horrible idea.

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 01:11:53 PM »
eating out is never a necessity.

just making this budget and understanding where your money is going is a giant first step.  you will likely start to see piles of waste.

financiallypossible

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2016, 01:31:52 PM »
Yes, the equity is in our house. We only "own" one. It would have been a lot more, but we live in a sandbox state, bought the current house in 2007 near the height of the housing bubble and got totally whapped. The house's value is *still* below where is was when we bought it. At least, it's only 10% down -- at one point, it had lost more than 45% of its value (according to Zillow).

One thing I have to prepare for the financial advisor is a detailed monthly budget with one column for needs and one for extras. It's slow going, but I'm making progress. We have literally never made a budget before so I am starting from scratch and every once in a while resorting to a little guess work. I only have the checks and credit card statements, so I know how much we spent in each store or at each restaurant, but sometimes it's hard to know if the money was spent for extras or for necessities. (Example: Depending on your situation, eating out can be more or less a necessity. On the other hand, some things we get at the local food store can be extras.) Doing my best though.

My long term financial goals are to be comfortable enough not to have to go back to work during later in life. I frankly do not care if we travel that much. We have done so much already. I'm not sure what my husband's financial goals are. He comes up with silly, wildly impractical "goals" when I ask him. I'm pretty sure he either realizes they are silly or will realize they are ridiculous when he gets around to actually thinking about it. Basically, it's a really nice way of saying: "Shut up! I don't want to talk about it!" Hopefully, he will start getting serious about it when we see the advisor.

Yes, he likes his job to a large extent. I think it makes up a large part of his identity. He might actually want to work past 65 -- I wouldn't be that surprised if this were the case. He has also brought up the possibilty of starting a business based on his research with me as his partner. I told him that if he really wanted to start a business, I'd be supportive, but I didn't want to be a partner (I mean, I have no expertise either in business or in his field). This is the only time in the last 3 years or so that he's been really angry with me. But seriously, I just don't want to be a partner in some engineering business. It's a horrible idea.

It's really good that you know to ask how the advisor gets paid.

Your meeting with a financial advisor is going to be much more productive if you and your husband can get a better understanding of each other's financial goals and determine where to make compromises. It's very difficult for anyone to come up with a plan if you 2 have very different visions of the future.

You bring up a great point about how a job or career can become part of one's identity. When considering retirement, it's extremely important to plan how one might use their time when no longer having that job to report to. Keeping physically and mentally active during retirement improves health and keeps health related expenses down.

Instead of trying to track down all your spending over the last year, might it be simpler to look at all of your income vs all of your account balances to determine how much you saved? This way you'd know how much you spent.

Just record:
- Balances of all bank accounts one year ago vs their balances today
- Contributions to all retirement accounts in the last year -- sum them up
- Balances on all credit cards one year ago vs their balances today
- Sum up all income earned

If your expenses are low enough, the two of you may already be able to retire with what you currently have. It may be his desire to keep working anyway due to not yet knowing how he wants to spend time in retirement.

Are you already paying this financial advisor or are you interviewing other financial advisors? Just be willing to say no to anything you don't like the sound of.

RosieTR

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2016, 03:20:46 PM »

Yes, the equity is in our house. We only "own" one. It would have been a lot more, but we live in a sandbox state, bought the current house in 2007 near the height of the housing bubble and got totally whapped. The house's value is *still* below where is was when we bought it. At least, it's only 10% down -- at one point, it had lost more than 45% of its value (according to Zillow).

One thing I have to prepare for the financial advisor is a detailed monthly budget with one column for needs and one for extras. It's slow going, but I'm making progress. We have literally never made a budget before so I am starting from scratch and every once in a while resorting to a little guess work. I only have the checks and credit card statements, so I know how much we spent in each store or at each restaurant, but sometimes it's hard to know if the money was spent for extras or for necessities. (Example: Depending on your situation, eating out can be more or less a necessity. On the other hand, some things we get at the local food store can be extras.) Doing my best though.

My long term financial goals are to be comfortable enough not to have to go back to work during later in life. I frankly do not care if we travel that much. We have done so much already. I'm not sure what my husband's financial goals are. He comes up with silly, wildly impractical "goals" when I ask him. I'm pretty sure he either realizes they are silly or will realize they are ridiculous when he gets around to actually thinking about it. Basically, it's a really nice way of saying: "Shut up! I don't want to talk about it!" Hopefully, he will start getting serious about it when we see the advisor.

Yes, he likes his job to a large extent. I think it makes up a large part of his identity. He might actually want to work past 65 -- I wouldn't be that surprised if this were the case. He has also brought up the possibilty of starting a business based on his research with me as his partner. I told him that if he really wanted to start a business, I'd be supportive, but I didn't want to be a partner (I mean, I have no expertise either in business or in his field). This is the only time in the last 3 years or so that he's been really angry with me. But seriously, I just don't want to be a partner in some engineering business. It's a horrible idea.

Did the advisor ask for a detailed monthly analysis? I have never had an advisor ask for that...just more or less what we spend monthly, and even then the spending was more of an afterthought since advisors tend to go off the standard percentage of income rather than what we all think of as a more appropriate spend/earn ratio.
What the advisor will need is
-all your assets (TIAA, Vanguard etc funds, bank account balances, any other items like bonds, actual cash, etc. If this is small, don't worry about it. $200 in a safe is peanuts compared to >7 figures in the other accounts)
-all your liabilities (what you owe on the house beyond what it's likely worth, any balances on credit cards, vehicles, etc or other loans)
-what you generally earn per month
-what you generally spend per month

The upthread suggestion of doing a rough annual assessment is a good one. You can just divide those numbers by 12 to get your monthly. Going forward, it may be useful to start tracking your spending or creating a budget, and there are several good thread suggestions for that. But don't kill yourself in the weeds at this point, especially if the records are difficult to figure out. I can imagine with paying for trips and then getting reimbursed, etc, it's going to be a fun job for an accounting type who likes that sort of thing, but a wine (or chocolate) occasion for you.

And don't worry about multiple options on advisors, finding a fee-based person, etc. at this point. Unless something is very different from your original explanation, this guy is paid by TIAA specifically to help out people at the university figure out their investing strategy for their 403(b) and related accounts. He isn't going to be selling you his special products, he isn't charging 1% of your assets to manage, he isn't going to be trotting out load funds or exotic products. What he will do is suggest how you might adjust your bond:stock:real estate:cash ratio, and give you an idea of what your husband's retirement options are. From my experience, this is going to be a good thing for you both, because talking to "experts" is sometimes really helpful for one member of a couple to realize the other member does know what they're talking about and it isn't a bunch of crazy bullshit. It is also a nice thing for a couple to have this chat with an advisor because it brings up stuff that is easy not to talk about, such as longer term goals, and overall lifestyle desires.

After this meeting, it might be a good idea to do some sort of couples counseling, specifically for you to work out your goals as a couple. It sounds like hubby doesn't want to think about long term goals because maybe he honestly loves his work and can't see ever retiring, but maybe is burying it or not expressing it to you because he doesn't want to disappoint you. You sound like you don't feel your desires are as important since he has made most of the money, but you also need a say in how things go in your shared life. Reconciling all of this is tough to do while you're "in" the couple-it needs an outside party to give feedback. If you go through a few sessions to feel like a team with some shared goals and some individual goals, you will both likely feel a lot better. And, the university may have some inexpensive counseling services, which may be all you need.

Bee21

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2016, 03:25:09 PM »
I met the financial advisor from my retirement fund this week and it went much better than the previous meeting with my  husband's fund.

Previous meeting- the guy asked us a lot of questions about our finances,aims, values, risk personality (waste of time as we know this). Then he announced for about 5k plus 300 a month management fee he will do some modelling and see what he can do for us. Um, no thanks. I found this expectation of blind faith of handing over the money and we'll see, ridiculous and insulting (does he think i am that stupid??? Any investment would need to way outperform the market just to pay for his fees.

Last meeting- went alone as husband has 0 interest. I had a prepared list of assets, budget. I simply told the guy that i am shopping around for an advisor, what can he do for us? He was quite cool about it and mentioned a few tax and fee saving strategies we can do to save 6-10k outright. I also questioned him about the funds he usually recommends and why and he had some good arguments there.i am kicking myself for not questioning him more about the actual performance of the funds he would recommend and what it would mean for us. I also found it impressive that he could count without a calculator (and his numbers were accurate). He is also cheaper than the previous dude. And the good news, he thinks that we can retire at 50.

I am Still not convinced, so i am meeting a third guy early next year.

So, my advice is, be prepared, shop around and know what you want to get out of these meetings. Maybe have the aim 9 ( say we want to have 100k per year in retirement, is it realistic? What can we do to achieve it and what can you do for us. Definitely have a budget/ list of expenses/assets with you, don't waste the time with going over that.

The annoying bit is, i know what we should do,  i just need a 3rd person to persuade my husband to get out of his comfort zone.


Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2016, 05:37:43 PM »

Yes, the equity is in our house. We only "own" one. It would have been a lot more, but we live in a sandbox state, bought the current house in 2007 near the height of the housing bubble and got totally whapped. The house's value is *still* below where is was when we bought it. At least, it's only 10% down -- at one point, it had lost more than 45% of its value (according to Zillow).

One thing I have to prepare for the financial advisor is a detailed monthly budget with one column for needs and one for extras. It's slow going, but I'm making progress. We have literally never made a budget before so I am starting from scratch and every once in a while resorting to a little guess work. I only have the checks and credit card statements, so I know how much we spent in each store or at each restaurant, but sometimes it's hard to know if the money was spent for extras or for necessities. (Example: Depending on your situation, eating out can be more or less a necessity. On the other hand, some things we get at the local food store can be extras.) Doing my best though.

My long term financial goals are to be comfortable enough not to have to go back to work during later in life. I frankly do not care if we travel that much. We have done so much already. I'm not sure what my husband's financial goals are. He comes up with silly, wildly impractical "goals" when I ask him. I'm pretty sure he either realizes they are silly or will realize they are ridiculous when he gets around to actually thinking about it. Basically, it's a really nice way of saying: "Shut up! I don't want to talk about it!" Hopefully, he will start getting serious about it when we see the advisor.

Yes, he likes his job to a large extent. I think it makes up a large part of his identity. He might actually want to work past 65 -- I wouldn't be that surprised if this were the case. He has also brought up the possibilty of starting a business based on his research with me as his partner. I told him that if he really wanted to start a business, I'd be supportive, but I didn't want to be a partner (I mean, I have no expertise either in business or in his field). This is the only time in the last 3 years or so that he's been really angry with me. But seriously, I just don't want to be a partner in some engineering business. It's a horrible idea.

Did the advisor ask for a detailed monthly analysis? I have never had an advisor ask for that...

They sent us a worksheet with 31 different categories divided into essential budget and discretionary budget. Since we are weird and the standard categories don't fit us (we don't have credit card debt or car payments, but we do spend lots of money on birding), I decided to make up some of my own budget categories. I had been slogging through the food -- both groceries and eating out, but decided to take a break and do my "Books, Music, Subscriptions, Movies, Theater, Concerts, and Museums," category (basically entertainment that is not birding or travel or eating out). I decided to make this category also include all the books and music we sent as presents because there is no way I can sort out the presents from the non-presents based on the CC bills.

Anyway, I went through credit card statements for 12 months (we charge almost everything) and found out that we spend an average of $147/month on all of this. As you might expect, the spending was much higher around Christmas and during the theater and good movie season.  I feel neutral about this. It's not great, but then, it's not exactly here where we are breaking the bank either.

Melisande

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2016, 02:50:20 PM »
We had the meeting with the TIAA financial advisor retirement planner today. I didn't realize that it was going to be the beginning of a longer process, so it was a kind of "get to know you" meeting. I felt comfortable with the relationship.

It's looking really good for us, so I'm not feeling motivated to share too many details. However, I will say this. I spent almost three entire days doing a spending analysis for us. I now know that in the past year we spent 42% of our income on essentials, (many of which are not really "essential" like the pool and lawn service), and 27% on pure discretionary spending with a savings/investment rate of 31%.

If we had less of a stash -- investments (84% equities) are at $1,573,306 -- and my husband actually wanted to retire early (which it turns out he does not -- we wants to work another 8 years or so), I would maybe think about upping the savings rate. But I really don't think we need to. We did an analysis based on our current spending and it seems that we will only need an extra $1,700/month from non-social security sources to maintain our current lifestyle. So, let's call that $20,000 and say we will need an extra $22,000/year. We can certainly handle that with the nest egg we have now.

But go figure -- my husband who is the optimist and the spender in the family came away from the same meeting thinking we should invest more and spend less. Well, fine by me -- looks like my financial worrying is done for a while.

Goldielocks

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2016, 04:29:08 PM »
My husband has signed us up for a meeting with a TIAA financial advisor. Why? Because he happened to get chatted up by a TIAA financial advisor who was hanging out in his department office between meetings she had with other colleagues. She gave him a 5-minute unscheduled advice session and told him that he should set up a real meeting with one of her colleagues.

In the 5 minutes he talked with this first advisor, I think he got some good and some bad advice.

The good: Since we have so much in our savings and checking accounts ($ 60,000), we don't need to have an extra $50,000 in a Money Market. It should be invested in a higher risk/higher return fund. (Actually, I have told him this quite a few times in the past, but apparently since I am merely a wife and not a financial advisor, I tend not to get listened to as much.)

The bad: She told him that he should retire at 67 instead of 65 and he seems to be taking this new line of thinking very seriously and has in fact stated that he will now retire at 67 (I suppose just because this advisor told him too. Before, he was always going on about 65.)

Anyway, I have been tasked with preparing all the financial information we will need for this meeting. But I am leery and not exactly looking forward to it. Last I heard, financial advisors are not legally required to work in their clients' best interest.

I called the guy we have an appointment with and asked him about this and other things. He referenced some kind of company or other regulation saying that indeed they are required to work in our interest. I also asked how he was being paid. He said salary, not commission. However, employees can certainly be pressured to bring in certain results even if they are salaried. Also, he did offer this unsolicited bit of somewhat unsettling "reassurance": "We ask that you share *all* of your financial data with us so we can help you better, not because we're trying to consolidate your investments into our funds." Hmmm -- what makes me think this is exactly what they are going to do?

Any advice for me going into the meeting? (I mean --besides not making any financial decisions/signing anything on the spot -- I already know not to do that.)

Our situation:

Net worth -- 1.7 million.
        Equity -- $175,000
        Investments -- $1,465,000 mostly TIAA-CREF and Vanguard funds.
        Cash --- $60,000

No debt except what is left on our mortgage ($150,000). We have a 3.3% interest rate.

My husband is 59, in good health and has a salary of $217,000 with about $20,000 extra for expenses. He has a very secure position (tenured professor at a large university.)

I no longer work. We have no children, so we don't have to worry about financing their education, but on the other hand, we might have to worry more about self-insuring for future medical calamities.

Ideally, I'd like us to have an in-depth discussion about how we can use what we have to live optimally. I'm afraid that the financial advisor will just send the message that we need more money.

So, again, any advice?

The best advice, is, before meeting with your potential FA, to figure out with your husband what your goals are, and what an ideal retirement looks like for you.  Write it down and bring it with you.  Add as much detail and numbers as possible.  Paint the picture of what life looks like.

The FA in 5 minutes is going to give CRAP advice if they don't know your personal goals, or spend at least 30 minutes working through it with you.

Note,
Advising someone to wait until 67 to retire could be great advice -- if that person stated how they want to work all their life, they love it so much!   It is also possible that the 67 advice is simply advice not to claim SS or another pension until age 67, regardless of FIRE date....

boarder42

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2016, 05:30:59 PM »
you didnt read this goldielocks she just posted her final

Goldielocks

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2016, 11:11:05 PM »
you didnt read this goldielocks she just posted her final

LOL -- Alert the internet police that Goldielocks posted 2 hours after the last post!

Anyway,  re-reading it, it still applies as decent advice before you meet with FA / planner the second time...   namely, that without working out your goals before you go to a planner, you can't possible get good advice.   (Unless the planner helps you write out / discover those goals, of course)

gj83

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2016, 11:44:48 AM »
I'm currently enrolled in a CFP program since I spent so much time reading MMM and bogleheads I figured I should try to make a career out of it.
1: I have to take 13 months of coursework.  Some programs are shorter timewise, but there is strict structure to the required components (investing, estate planning, insurance, taxes).
2: I will need to sit for a 2-day test with a ~60% pass rate.
3: I will need 6,000 hours of work experience that involves actually gathering data and goals and giving a customer advice based on that. 
4: I will need to pledge to maintain a high ethical standard which includes being a fiduciary

Only after all of that will I be able to call myself a CFP.  Financial planner, adviser, other titles like that do not have such standards and as linked above anyone can claim to be one.
The teachers in my program always say that we need to always be clear with a customer about how we are paid.  Is it based on AUM or fee based or some combination.  If the adviser will not disclose compensation then move on. 

One thing that a CFP can provide is perspective and a comprehensive look at your financial life.  Last night in insurance class we discussed buy/sell agreements for life insurance.  A lot of small business do not have any sort of business continuity plan in place and a CFP would be able to advise the person to evaluate their life insurance and other needs that go beyond just investment advice.  Some CFPs may be licensed to sell insurance, others may belong to a practice that has others who sell insurance, others may just tell you what they recommend and refer you to someone else or ask for permission to discuss with your current insurance person if you have one. 

My honest impression of most people on MMM and Bogleheads is that at the most you would just need a fee-based meeting just to evaluate your finances, make sure there aren't any gaps, and things along those lines (and most of you don't even need that).  To properly do that it is important to know all of your assets, insurance, wills, liabilities, and goals.  The CFP should provide a financial plan based on this information, but then you can take it or leave it and manage your own funds.  For the rest of the general public with less financial literacy and knowledge of the markets an arrangement that charges by AUM and allows regular checkups can be a better solution.  There is plenty of competition out there so it is easy to move on if you are not feeling the love. 

TIAA has a big office in my city so 1/4 of my class is actually TIAA advisers.  They seem like decent people, but they are also the ones pursuing more credentials so they may not represent the rest of TIAA.

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Re: Financial Advisor pre-meeting advice?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2016, 12:25:16 PM »
GJ83 just b/c you plan to stick to what your "board" says is the way you're supposed to do business does not mean everyone does or that your "board" even enforces it.

http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2012/09/12/is-the-fiduciary-standard-a-joke/