Author Topic: Finances vs Health Comparison  (Read 656 times)

ginjaninja

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Finances vs Health Comparison
« on: July 17, 2019, 08:33:03 AM »
There seems to be a strong comparison between weight loss and saving for financial security. 

Net Worth = Income - Expenses
Weight loss = Calories Consumed - Exercise

If you ask MMM he advocates for reducing expenses to gain net worth.  Ramit Sethi advocates for increasing income to gain net worth (these are GROSS oversimplifications, I understand).

What do you guys and gals in the MMM community think is the area to spend more focus for weight loss?  Reducing calories consumed (obviously staying above a certain level to sustain health) or increasing exercise?

This is a question I have been mulling over for a while. 

ginjaninja

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2019, 08:37:44 AM »
I think my answer is this:

Neither MMM or RS is wrong, using simple math both will work to create wealth.  I also think that most people end up optimizing both as an unintended consequence. 

MMM by decreasing expenses has allowed for an increase in income by spending his time on construction or other MMM ventures.  I doubt that RS is going into consumer debt while increasing his income.

My personal journey has been attacking health from both sides, reducing calories* and increasing exercise.  I am wondering if I were to start over which variable would be better to start with, because it was really challenging to do both.  I made it and have lost weight in a healthy way, but as people ask me where to start I am at a loss because there does not seem to be an easy way to solve the problem of weight loss.

*as exercise increased calories increased but the overall deficit stayed about the same. 
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 09:23:09 AM by ginjaninja »

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2019, 09:08:24 AM »
There is a saying in the fitness world:

"You gain muscle in the gym.  You cut fat in the kitchen"

If people stopped thinking about exercise as 'burning calories' or 'burning fat' they'd make a lot more progress (imo).  Think about exercise as where you want to put on muscle, or at least in what ways you want to get stronger/gain mobility.  Strength and mobility is where you should be focussing when you're spending your time exercising.  Whether this is weights or a machine or walking laps around your neighborhood, ask yourself what you're trying to gain from this exercise.  If it's to 'burn calories' or 'work off dinner' your mind is in the wrong place about exercise.

I think a lot of people's failings at losing weight are due to trying to lose it via exercise.  You can run a 5k every day and burn about 300cal/day.  1)  This is way more exercise than most people are going to do, and 2) you can make a WAY bigger difference in the kitchen.  Plus the classic third problem with that of 'I worked out hard today, i'm going to have a treat because i burned so many calories.'

jps

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2019, 09:18:39 AM »
I've always heard the phrase, "you can't outrun a bad diet."

Both.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 09:21:19 AM »
There is a saying in the fitness world:

"You gain muscle in the gym.  You cut fat in the kitchen"

If people stopped thinking about exercise as 'burning calories' or 'burning fat' they'd make a lot more progress (imo).  Think about exercise as where you want to put on muscle, or at least in what ways you want to get stronger/gain mobility.  Strength and mobility is where you should be focussing when you're spending your time exercising.  Whether this is weights or a machine or walking laps around your neighborhood, ask yourself what you're trying to gain from this exercise.  If it's to 'burn calories' or 'work off dinner' your mind is in the wrong place about exercise.

I think a lot of people's failings at losing weight are due to trying to lose it via exercise.  You can run a 5k every day and burn about 300cal/day.  1)  This is way more exercise than most people are going to do, and 2) you can make a WAY bigger difference in the kitchen.  Plus the classic third problem with that of 'I worked out hard today, i'm going to have a treat because i burned so many calories.'

+1

Especially as you age, having less body fat is more about food.  I happen to think it's not only calories, but the composition of the food.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2019, 09:39:44 AM »
I happen to think it's not only calories, but the composition of the food.

It is, but I think for most people that's a complication they don't need to get into.  If you get your calories under control and an effective (and sustainable! this is key) exercise regime that you're doing regularly, that'll probably get you further than you realized you could go.  If you have both those things down and hit a plateau and want to go further, then you can start worrying about protein vs carbs, etc.  But at the beginning, worrying about macros and if you should be eating before or after a workout... that's all misplaced effort until you get the bigger and more important things dialed in and on autopilot.


Edited for typos.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 09:42:11 AM by RyanAtTanagra »

DeniseNJ

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2019, 11:14:46 AM »
All of the details of excercise and the nitty gritty of diet restrictions just confuse the basic issue of stop eating crap.  Yes get more excercise.  It's good for you and you'll feel batter.  Don't worry about reps and carb loading and gatorade and stuff.  Just move your butt.

To lose weight stop eating crap.  Don't worry about the specifics of how many grams of this or that to eat in a day or how many calories to have per hour or how many carbs are in fruit.  You didn't get fat eating fruit.  Nobody got fat eating fruit:  Gee, I need to drop fifty pounds--must be all that fruit!  I don't think so.

When you have to drop the last 5 or 10 lbs then you can count your calories and start reducing them, but you'll be shocked at how much progress you make by not eating cake, cookies, iced cream, donuts, fast food, fried food, or any other crap we call food but isn't really.  Eat lots good healthy fruits and veggies, some lean meats, and some whole grains. And go to bed hungry--you'll have a nice breakfast in the morning.

ginjaninja

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 11:21:08 AM »
Maybe getting into all of the details to lose weight being a hindrance can be related back to finance too. 

If you start to get into whether a roth vs traditional IRA is better, which funds specifically to get into, what bank account has the ABSOLUTE best interest rate, cutting car insurance, cutting cable, etc. that is more of a mature step in the process.

A good first place to start is with saving a basic $50+/month if you have never saved before ever.  Then build up to where the other nuances matter.  It doesn't matter if your investment strategy is perfect if you can't even find $50/month to put there. 

I mostly started this thread because I noticed that my financial discipline skills relate so well to the skills I have developed building a healthier lifestyle.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 11:33:52 AM »
Maybe getting into all of the details to lose weight being a hindrance can be related back to finance too. 

If you start to get into whether a roth vs traditional IRA is better, which funds specifically to get into, what bank account has the ABSOLUTE best interest rate, cutting car insurance, cutting cable, etc. that is more of a mature step in the process.

A good first place to start is with saving a basic $50+/month if you have never saved before ever.  Then build up to where the other nuances matter.  It doesn't matter if your investment strategy is perfect if you can't even find $50/month to put there. 

I mostly started this thread because I noticed that my financial discipline skills relate so well to the skills I have developed building a healthier lifestyle.

Agree.  Credit card churning and how do I save a million dollars and where can I get the very best interest rate is all fun but look at your cable bill.  Look at where you spend money and stop spending so much money.  Start with your grocery bill.  When you cut spenidng it's shocking how much money you have at the end of the month.  Then you get to decide what to do with it. 

With calories in vs calories out, how many calories in are most important.  With spending money in vs money out, what you are spending "out" is most important.  Increasing income is nice.  Saving is nice.  But everything is a lot easier if you reduce spending.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 11:34:35 AM »
A good first place to start is with saving a basic $50+/month if you have never saved before ever.  Then build up to where the other nuances matter.  It doesn't matter if your investment strategy is perfect if you can't even find $50/month to put there. 

I mostly started this thread because I noticed that my financial discipline skills relate so well to the skills I have developed building a healthier lifestyle.

It's a fair comparison to be sure, with some of the same problems when people don't consider it.  People at the 401 level trying to tell 101s to do things like count grams of protein and take creatine supplements and be sure to get some carbs in 20 minutes before your workout and you better be tracking your reps so you know if you're improving enough.  They're just trying to lose some body fat and not get out of breath going up a flight of stairs.  Same with sending someone trying to get out of CC debt to ERE or MMM that's talking about investment order and saving 80% of their income.  It makes both groups go 'Jesus, I can't do all that, I might as well not even bother' and they give up before they even get started.

Also a problem if you're 101 level and you try to reach 401 goals with 401 tactics.  You'll have sub-optimal progress at best, burn out and quit before getting anywhere at worst.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Finances vs Health Comparison
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 09:54:22 AM »
The medical research suggests diet for weight loss (although there are many other factors that cause obesity so don't judge people) but the people who KEEP the weight off are the ones who exercise regularly.