Expectations for visiting guests w/ pets (multiple overnight stay)

[SunnyDays]

Yeah, as I said before, this isn't about the dog, it's about the owners (and parents too, I see).  They either can't or don't want to see that they are the problem, so be prepared for more of the same in future.  Brother needs to step up and lead this family, as he seems less far gone than his wife.  Good luck.

[Cassie]

The bottom line is that the family doesn’t want the dog going on group vacations so they need to tell the brother and his wife this and hold firm. Then they can decide how to deal with it.  Rescue dogs really vary in how they are treated so yes some can be trained and some can’t. Puppy mill dogs usually can’t be crated because they lived their entire lives in crates. I have had dogs that couldn’t be touched for a few years. It took that long to win their trust. I have friends in rescue that have dogs like this and they never change.  I have had dogs that had to wear belly bands all the time.

Personally I have found friends and family that I pay to move in. I have taken many dogs on vacation and this is a option for them if they get their own hotel room. It’s their problem to solve and not yours.  When someone told me about belly bands I was thrilled as it was such a easy solution for a small dog and isn’t mean.

[jeromedawg]

The bottom line is that the family doesn’t want the dog going on group vacations so they need to tell the brother and his wife this and hold firm. Then they can decide how to deal with it.  Rescue dogs really vary in how they are treated so yes some can be trained and some can’t. Puppy mill dogs usually can’t be crated because they lived their entire lives in crates. I have had dogs that couldn’t be touched for a few years. It took that long to win their trust. I have friends in rescue that have dogs like this and they never change.  I have had dogs that had to wear belly bands all the time.

Personally I have found friends and family that I pay to move in. I have taken many dogs on vacation and this is a option for them if they get their own hotel room. It’s their problem to solve and not yours.  When someone told me about belly bands I was thrilled as it was such a easy solution for a small dog and isn’t mean.

re: belly bands, I don't know what the deal is but it seems like they've gotten all defensive and up-in-arms each time I've mentioned them. I'm guessing part of it is that they think I don't believe that the dog is housebroken. But that's not the same as the dog having very obvious issues with marking, to which they seem blinded by. In my SILs mind, "the dog is housebroken and might have excitement pee accidents but marking should *never* happen" - the bands are to contain the dog when he MARKS, not because he's not housebroken... but even if I explain that to them, they'll still probably get upset and tell me to stay out of it and mind my own business *eyeroll*

[NorthernIkigai]

Dog pee on the floor is still dog pee, regardless of the motivations of the dog.

[Cassie]

Jerome, their reaction to belly bands is bizarre. Marking is a real problem and I have had female dogs do it also but males are much more likely.  You put a piece of a pad inside and it’s easy to throw away and solves the problem.

[jeromedawg]

Dog pee on the floor is still dog pee, regardless of the motivations of the dog.

But the "motivations of the dog" are what are most important to my SIL! lol

[Sibley]

The solution is simple, if very difficult to implement (emotionally). Flat ban. "Brother, SIL, I'm sorry, but the dog can't come. If that means you choose not to come, we'll miss you."

[jeromedawg]

The solution is simple, if very difficult to implement (emotionally). Flat ban. "Brother, SIL, I'm sorry, but the dog can't come. If that means you choose not to come, we'll miss you."

Yea, definitely difficult... my mom is really the one  wanting the vacation and wanting for ALL the siblings to be there. And ultimately, I think she would concede to having the dog around even if it means for the sake of everyone being present (despite knowing that deep down she would prefer not to have the dog around).

I'm kind of in the middle but I sort of self-volunteered to plan just by speaking up and suggesting the location of the vacation :)

I think it's just ridiculous that we're now having to plan our vacations and get-togethers factoring in *their* dog.

In any case, I'll keep everyone posted of the impending drama LOL

[Hibernaculum]

I'm no expert at dog psychology (we have trouble getting our beagle not to mark), but it might be worth considering the human psychology. You've mentioned that you feel your SIL and brother are being selfish, and spoiling the dog (and their kids). You indicated that you yourself would be horrified you had a dog and it did that at someone else's home. So, when you contemplate the dog's pee, as you cleaned it up, you had at least TWO things going on. First was just the minor nastiness of having to clean up the pee. The other thing going on was that it galled you that you should even HAVE to do it.

It seems like you're hoping that your brother and especially SIL will come around and realize that they're being selfish and inconveniencing other people, and that they should take better measures to train their dog and deal with the pee issue in whatever way works.

OK, that MAY happen. Chances are, though, that it won't. You're hoping they will change. A large part of your annoyance is probably due to the fact that they haven't changed.

I would suggest that you push for a "no dogs" approach to the upcoming trip. Just explain very simply that their dog peed all over things when they were over at your place, and you're just not OK with that. And yes, you get to be the bad guy. Just own it and try not to let it bother you.

At some point during the trip, your SIL (if she comes) will probably pontificate about how much better it would be if SF* were there too, and how much money they're having to spend on boarding or whatever. Just get on your happy face, and say, "yes, that's too bad. It's too bad your dog pees all over the place." Don't argue, don't expect anyone to change, keep it low key.

That's my 2 cents, FWIW.

*Special Fido

[Just Joe]

The solution is simple, if very difficult to implement (emotionally). Flat ban. "Brother, SIL, I'm sorry, but the dog can't come. If that means you choose not to come, we'll miss you."

That...

[Captain FIRE]

I would suggest that you push for a "no dogs" approach to the upcoming trip. Just explain very simply that their dog peed all over things when they were over at your place, and you're just not OK with that. And yes, you get to be the bad guy. Just own it and try not to let it bother you.

At some point during the trip, your SIL (if she comes) will probably pontificate about how much better it would be if SF* were there too, and how much money they're having to spend on boarding or whatever. Just get on your happy face, and say, "yes, that's too bad. It's too bad your dog pees all over the place." Don't argue, don't expect anyone to change, keep it low key.

+1

Now while planning:
"You may not have been aware, but there were over 10 times your dog marked places when visiting. We discovered a few more spots after you left. Therefore, we are not comfortable vacationing with the dog.  It's not good for him when he's clearly distressed by the change in environment, and our property and the rental owner's property will get damaged by the marking. I would be happy to help look into places that could safely and securely kennel your dog while you are on vacation with us. We hope you'll be able to join us! Please let us know by XX whether you will be able to make it so we can make plans."

Response to SIL bitching on trip:
"Yes, it is clear he's had some traumatizing experiences that have caused him to mark new locations.  How are you doing on getting him training for it to address the issue?  Let me know if you'd like any help in locating a good trainer!"

[Adventine]

It may also help to talk about the dog's issues with the other family members going on the trip.


The more people who say "Nope, don't want to deal with dog pee on vacation," the better.

[Captain FIRE]

It may also help to talk about the dog's issues with the other family members going on the trip.


The more people who say "Nope, don't want to deal with dog pee on vacation," the better.

Yes this.  Try to get a united front.  Is mom aware of the extent of the issue?  Also make sure you are clear in your communications so there can be no wiggle room later.  If it's the case that you/others won't go if the dog goes, make sure she understands that clearly and there there's no "maybe" wiggle room.

[marble_faun]

They do not sound like responsible pet owners. You should avoid sharing an Airbnb with their dog unless you want to pay for extra cleaning fees afterward.

The fact that they shrug off bringing an animal to someone's house and letting it urinate everywhere is just bizarre to me. In your SIL's place, I would be embarrassed, making major apologies, and doing everything I could to clean up after the dog.

Since they are being so inconsiderate, you need to gird yourself to respond in a blunt, direct way. "We won't be sharing a rental with the dog, since she isn't house-trained." Hold the line. Remember, you're not the bad guy. THEY are the ones being rude and weird.

[jeromedawg]

They do not sound like responsible pet owners. You should avoid sharing an Airbnb with their dog unless you want to pay for extra cleaning fees afterward.

The fact that they shrug off bringing an animal to someone's house and letting it urinate everywhere is just bizarre to me. In your SIL's place, I would be embarrassed, making major apologies, and doing everything I could to clean up after the dog.

Since they are being so inconsiderate, you need to gird yourself to respond in a blunt, direct way. "We won't be sharing a rental with the dog, since she isn't house-trained." Hold the line. Remember, you're not the bad guy. THEY are the ones being rude and weird.

Bottom line is that they picked a dog that's "lazy" because it fits with their lifestyle. They don't have time to clean-up after, manage or train a "hyper" dog. So having a "lazy" one is much more fitting. Of course, and unfortunately, problems still come in all shapes and sizes.

[jeromedawg]

It may also help to talk about the dog's issues with the other family members going on the trip.


The more people who say "Nope, don't want to deal with dog pee on vacation," the better.

What's funny and slightly irritating is that on the thread for this vacation (which includes my other brother and SIL), after I mentioned "belly bands," after first redirecting the attention away from the marking and onto the "Rover incident" (where the dog ran off under the sitter's watch) my SIL interject an apology (albeit, it did feel sincere) AND offered to pay to have our place cleaned.

Anyway, as I said it did feel like a genuinely apologetic response but I'm not sure why she felt that she needed to do this on the thread *with* my other brother and SIL... it almost felt like some kind of defense mechanism to save face in front of the others.

[Adventine]

It may also help to talk about the dog's issues with the other family members going on the trip.


The more people who say "Nope, don't want to deal with dog pee on vacation," the better.

What's funny and slightly irritating is that I was talking about the dog on a thread for this vacation with my other brother and SIL and had recommended "belly bands" at a minimum if they bring the dog. Then my SIL decided to interject an apology AND offered to pay to have our place cleaned. Prior to this she redirected the attention away from the marking to the "Rover incident" (where the dog ran off under the sitter's watch). Anyway, it felt like a genuinely apologetic response but I'm not sure why she felt that she needed to do this on the thread *with* my other brother and SIL... it almost felt like some kind of defense mechanism to save face in front of the others.

So she only apologized to you about her dog when there were other witnesses? Doesn't sound very genuine to me.

[jeromedawg]

It may also help to talk about the dog's issues with the other family members going on the trip.


The more people who say "Nope, don't want to deal with dog pee on vacation," the better.

What's funny and slightly irritating is that I was talking about the dog on a thread for this vacation with my other brother and SIL and had recommended "belly bands" at a minimum if they bring the dog. Then my SIL decided to interject an apology AND offered to pay to have our place cleaned. Prior to this she redirected the attention away from the marking to the "Rover incident" (where the dog ran off under the sitter's watch). Anyway, it felt like a genuinely apologetic response but I'm not sure why she felt that she needed to do this on the thread *with* my other brother and SIL... it almost felt like some kind of defense mechanism to save face in front of the others.

So she only apologized to you about her dog when there were other witnesses? Doesn't sound very genuine to me.

Yea, it was a long and well-written/thought out and structured response... I guess I fell for it hahaha. In any case, no word from them on this. We have roughly 10 days or so before I have to submit the final portion of payment (and indicate whether there's a pet or not so the pet fee is accounted for). I'm hoping they find a place to drop him off...

[mm1970]

Dogs go through a socialization period early in life, and if that window is missed, they often end up with problems -- separation anxiety, fear of people, fear of other dogs, fear of various noises, not knowing how to "dog" in some ways (chewing, playing, etc.). That might have happened to the dog in question here. And I wouldn't put too much weight on this dog not doing things like sitting when you ask, taking a bone from you, etc. Some dogs are just too overwhelmed by new people. (Edited to add:  Socialization doesn't just mean literally socializing with people and dogs. It means getting used to anything and everything in the human world -- noises, different surfaces under the feet, different types of buildings/vehicles, all sorts of smells, and yes, all the different shapes and sizes of people, dogs, and other animals.)

Yep.  Plus, Chihuahuas have a personality.

We have a rescue Chihuahua, who was probably >10 when we adopted her.  She's got issues.  YES she sleeps with us in our bed.  She does not mark indoors.

She cannot be trusted around other dogs or she will bite.  She is ALWAYS leashed with us.  When it comes to training ... we are doing our best, and we also need to sign her up for outside help.  She has definitely made *some* progress, but recognize that not all dogs can be 100% fixed.

She doesn't play.  She doesn't gnaw on bones.  If you give her a bone-shaped treat, she will bury it and save it for later when she is hungry.

When it comes to vacations, we get dog friendly hotels and she's fine.  When we fly somewhere?   We get a dog sitter in our house.

[Catbert]

So...how did the vacation with the peeing dog go?  Nosy people inquiring minds want to know.

[ysette9]

So...how did the vacation with the peeing dog go?  Nosy people inquiring minds want to know.

This !!

[Sibley]

@jeromedawg Bat signal, people request an update.

[jeromedawg]

Haha sorry all. Haven't checked the site for a couple days now.

In any case, the trip went well. The dog did *not* come and there was little discussion about him (thankfully, because it was a bit awkward when they did bring him up). Im sure my SIL wasnt too happy about it but I think she and my brother knew it would have caused a lot of contention and stress if they brought the dog. So i was relieved.

[Ecky]

I had a rescue Chihuahua mix for around a year and a half, and I was unable to break the dog of peeing inside. He was taken to multiple trainers and even had an in-home visit. He simply had a mind of his own, and was going to do what he wanted to do, when and where he wanted to do it.

Growing up, a close friend of mine had a Chihuahua who was similar.

I know this is more about the owners than anything, but I just thought I'd comment that I've had a really bad experience of the breed, even when mixed, every time I've encountered it. I expect they have a good side, somewhere, but I just haven't seen it.

[Sibley]

Glad things worked out ok.

[Catbert]

Haha sorry all. Haven't checked the site for a couple days now.

In any case, the trip went well. The dog did *not* come and there was little discussion about him (thankfully, because it was a bit awkward when they did bring him up). Im sure my SIL wasnt too happy about it but I think she and my brother knew it would have caused a lot of contention and stress if they brought the dog. So i was relieved.

Glad that it worked out - and that the reason was that you brought up and pushed the issue beforehand.

[jeromedawg]

Haha sorry all. Haven't checked the site for a couple days now.

In any case, the trip went well. The dog did *not* come and there was little discussion about him (thankfully, because it was a bit awkward when they did bring him up). Im sure my SIL wasnt too happy about it but I think she and my brother knew it would have caused a lot of contention and stress if they brought the dog. So i was relieved.

Glad that it worked out - and that the reason was that you brought up and pushed the issue beforehand.

Thanks all. Yes, I think we needed to stand our ground with the whole thing. I keep going back to the bone-headed mistake of sending the link to them that included the "1 Pet" option in the URL (and my SIL *thanking* me for thinking about the dog...) but I do think even if I left that out she still would have inquired and we would have had to have the conversation. Anyway, with that family we have learned we need to stand our ground. They are the same ones who caused us much stress around deciding on where to cruise several years ago when Zika was a concern. We were trying to avoid destinations where Zika was a higher threat and they were brushing off the concern of it. They nearly jeopardized the trip as my parents wanted to cancel at some point because of all the disagreements. We ended up conceding and forfeiting trying for another kid. Maybe that was a blessing in disguise because that was mid-2019 and we would have been caught up with navigating delivering and caring for a newborn at the onset of the COVID outbreak.

[JupiterGreen]

Haha sorry all. Haven't checked the site for a couple days now.

In any case, the trip went well. The dog did *not* come and there was little discussion about him (thankfully, because it was a bit awkward when they did bring him up). Im sure my SIL wasnt too happy about it but I think she and my brother knew it would have caused a lot of contention and stress if they brought the dog. So i was relieved.

Glad that it worked out - and that the reason was that you brought up and pushed the issue beforehand.

Thanks all. Yes, I think we needed to stand our ground with the whole thing. I keep going back to the bone-headed mistake of sending the link to them that included the "1 Pet" option in the URL (and my SIL *thanking* me for thinking about the dog...) but I do think even if I left that out she still would have inquired and we would have had to have the conversation. Anyway, with that family we have learned we need to stand our ground. They are the same ones who caused us much stress around deciding on where to cruise several years ago when Zika was a concern. We were trying to avoid destinations where Zika was a higher threat and they were brushing off the concern of it. They nearly jeopardized the trip as my parents wanted to cancel at some point because of all the disagreements. We ended up conceding and forfeiting trying for another kid. Maybe that was a blessing in disguise because that was mid-2019 and we would have been caught up with navigating delivering and caring for a newborn at the onset of the COVID outbreak.

What you did was respect your own boundaries-bravo/a! Not assuming gender, but the patriarchy trains women to be wiggly with boundaries. Based on this post alone (I know I'm making a wild assumption), but could it be that you have a hard time respecting your own boundaries? The request was outrageous- full stop. But people are allowed to ask for whatever they want. However, you are not obligated to honor all/any requests. Big or small, you never need to feel bad about asserting your boundaries. If you set a boundary that someone crosses (one you have already stated) walk away and go no contact/low contact. This is a great way to spot a toxic relationship whether they share their DNA with you or someone you live with matters not. 

[ysette9]

[quote author=jeromedawg link=topic=127149.msg3045342#msg3045342 date=

We ended up conceding and forfeiting trying for another kid. Maybe that was a blessing in disguise because that was mid-2019 and we would have been caught up with navigating delivering and caring for a newborn at the onset of the COVID outbreak.
[/quote]

This caught my eye. If you decided independently that you didn’t want another kid, then more power to you. (I had a baby halfway through 2019 and the pandemic was SHIT.) but if you didn’t have a kid because your family  members were being shit assholes and not being considerate of your Very legitimate concerns then, I’m sorry, that is Fucked Up. Big time. Way worse than a stupid dog. If that really did happen the way it seems to read then I agree that you need to do some hard introspection about drawing much better boundaries to protect yourself.

[jeromedawg]

[quote author=jeromedawg link=topic=127149.msg3045342#msg3045342 date=

We ended up conceding and forfeiting trying for another kid. Maybe that was a blessing in disguise because that was mid-2019 and we would have been caught up with navigating delivering and caring for a newborn at the onset of the COVID outbreak.

This caught my eye. If you decided independently that you didn’t want another kid, then more power to you. (I had a baby halfway through 2019 and the pandemic was SHIT.) but if you didn’t have a kid because your family  members were being shit assholes and not being considerate of your Very legitimate concerns then, I’m sorry, that is Fucked Up. Big time. Way worse than a stupid dog. If that really did happen the way it seems to read then I agree that you need to do some hard introspection about drawing much better boundaries to protect yourself.
[/quote]


Yea, ultimately, I think it was for the better - we (or rather, my wife) would have had a really rough time with pregnancy and delivery through the pandemic. But yea, aside from that, it was a super selfish move. We called them out on it and sort of made 'amends' but they're still pretty selfish over all. That said, I think in the future we will be avoiding any vacation with them outside of my mom pushing for a family gathering. And if they decide they want to come down here to visit, we'll still welcome them into our house...just without that freaking dog. I have a feeling they will avoid staying with us though. It's not like that's a big deal though - when we go up there we just stay at my parents and never at either of my brothers' places. I would feel awkward asking to do so even without family drama, so perhaps they feel the same way but now it's even weirder because there's some drama behind it. Anyway, we'll still be cordial with them but when it comes to vacations and visits, there's going to be a lot more pushback from us in the future.

[HipGnosis]

Oh no.  That dog would not be welcome in my house again and I'd let them know so they can plan on other arrangements next time.  My in laws have a very small dog that has only come over a handful of times for a couple hours at a time but each time he has chewed a tassel off my rug, scratched my floor, and puked and/or peed on my carpet. I'm not a huge fan of people bringing their dogs over to other people's houses.  They're destructive.  People only please.

JR - If my Becka was still with me I would offer to meet you anywhere in the country for you to meet a sweet, well behaved, totally non-destructive dog. She was a runt Lhasa, so quite small.  I feel you need to meet one.  And now, I'm missing her terribly...