Author Topic: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?  (Read 36702 times)

SKL-HOU

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2017, 10:21:40 AM »

For some reason this reminds me of a class i took for MBA. The teacher was explaining something to do with graphs and causally said to use the triangle area formula. Out of about 20 people in the class, maybe 3 people knew! These are college educated people. Granted the teacher was too technical for the class (90% switched classes that day) but i was shocked that people don't know basic math. So you are probably right, engineers probably have a better outcome.

 could you explain how you reached this conclusion (in bold)?

have you been an engineer and taken engineering classes.  and also taken business classes.  I can see why so many of my generation have business degrees and cant find jobs.  those classes could be passed in your sleep in my opinion. a PMP degree cert that requires you to take 35 hours of courses and you can pass the test at a 65%+ passing rate.  seems like a joke to me. People study for months to pass the PE ( i didnt but people do)  and still fail, this is in addition to usually 4 years of doing work directly in the field for the test.

That being said i'm sure i would learn things if i were to get a PMP that would be very helpful.  But that doesnt change the intelligence level needed to pass the exam.

So, if you had taken the time to understand anything at all about the PMP exam, you would know that it doesn't require much intelligence at all to pass it.  It does require some level of memorization based on when I took the exam.  In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

Do you have any understanding that the PMP certification is not and has never been compared to the PE exam except somehow in this thread?  They measure vastly different levels of knowledge.  The PMP certification is a money making tool for PMI and they've built a huge business around it.  And THAT, my friend, is why business majors come out on top.  Because they can take an imperfect idea and make a HUGE business around it.  Where is the engineer?  Probably building an excel spreadsheet with charts and graphs about why engineers should get better grades.

Are you an engineer? My guess is you are not. Engineering is not just math and logic, there is plenty of memorization as well. IMO engineers are better at taking any test because they are problem solvers (doesnt have to be math or logic).

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2017, 11:17:09 AM »
There are several different organizations out there offering PMP certifications. My general sense has been large companies love (or at least the HR checklist?) PMPs from their specific certifying organization of choice and don't care either way about PMPs from "lesser" certifying organizations. 

So if your company will pay for it, they on some level value it. Therefore, go for it. But know that if you jump ship at some point, the next company will either love it or not care at all with what appears to be no middle ground.

This isn't quite correct.  There is only one organization that offers the PMP cert and that is PMI (the project management institute).  There are a handful of testing centers (Pearson, etc) that are authorized to administer the exam on behalf of PMI.  There are many thousands of companies that are registered with PMI (Registered Education Providers) to give training that counts towards PMI's REP hours required.  The REPs pay for the REP designation and any training provided by an REP must be reviewed and signed off on by a PMP holder.  There are many other organizations and universities and any tom-dick-or harry that can provide training to help you prep for the exam or learn any of the underlying fundamentals.  But PMI has done a fairly decent job of making sure that they can collect every penny they can from the program and they've done a very good job of protecting the PMP certification itself as an asset. 

So you can see that creating this entire business model based on something that was never actually needed, but that now creates both demand and supply is pretty ingenious.  I've since seen others create a certification, then create training for the certification.  I saw a LOT of people fall for it and it took a concerted effort of many others in the profession to publicly state that no organization that requires its own training for a certification can be a valid credential, but with the REP program, that's kind of what PMI did. 

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2017, 11:19:56 AM »

For some reason this reminds me of a class i took for MBA. The teacher was explaining something to do with graphs and causally said to use the triangle area formula. Out of about 20 people in the class, maybe 3 people knew! These are college educated people. Granted the teacher was too technical for the class (90% switched classes that day) but i was shocked that people don't know basic math. So you are probably right, engineers probably have a better outcome.

 could you explain how you reached this conclusion (in bold)?

have you been an engineer and taken engineering classes.  and also taken business classes.  I can see why so many of my generation have business degrees and cant find jobs.  those classes could be passed in your sleep in my opinion. a PMP degree cert that requires you to take 35 hours of courses and you can pass the test at a 65%+ passing rate.  seems like a joke to me. People study for months to pass the PE ( i didnt but people do)  and still fail, this is in addition to usually 4 years of doing work directly in the field for the test.

That being said i'm sure i would learn things if i were to get a PMP that would be very helpful.  But that doesnt change the intelligence level needed to pass the exam.

So, if you had taken the time to understand anything at all about the PMP exam, you would know that it doesn't require much intelligence at all to pass it.  It does require some level of memorization based on when I took the exam.  In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

Do you have any understanding that the PMP certification is not and has never been compared to the PE exam except somehow in this thread?  They measure vastly different levels of knowledge.  The PMP certification is a money making tool for PMI and they've built a huge business around it.  And THAT, my friend, is why business majors come out on top.  Because they can take an imperfect idea and make a HUGE business around it.  Where is the engineer?  Probably building an excel spreadsheet with charts and graphs about why engineers should get better grades.

Are you an engineer? My guess is you are not. Engineering is not just math and logic, there is plenty of memorization as well. IMO engineers are better at taking any test because they are problem solvers (doesnt have to be math or logic).
could you explain how you reached this conclusion (in red)?

caracarn

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2017, 11:32:08 AM »
In the software world I saw, experience and references were far more valuable than certifications. I'm pretty sure someone with a PMP certification with no project management background wouldn't be as valuable as someone with a project management background and no certs.


You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer. 

caracarn

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2017, 11:39:50 AM »
There are several different organizations out there offering PMP certifications. My general sense has been large companies love (or at least the HR checklist?) PMPs from their specific certifying organization of choice and don't care either way about PMPs from "lesser" certifying organizations. 

So if your company will pay for it, they on some level value it. Therefore, go for it. But know that if you jump ship at some point, the next company will either love it or not care at all with what appears to be no middle ground.

This was a confusing statement to me.  PMI is the only "certifying organization" that provides a PMP.  It is their credential and trademarked. 

I have been a PMP since 2003.  Because of the work requirement to take the exam, I did not feel that I learned much of anything from the PMP prep process.  I agree with Blue that the best advice you can give anyone taking the exam is do not pick the best answer, or what you would do, pick what PMI methodology says to do.  This is what makes people feel it is a joke, but it would be difficult to build a test for a certification that let you provide any answer you wanted as long as you could logically defend it, so I feel this is a little harsh in looking at it.  I keep my PMP current because it is a benefit to have as a differentiator for hiring, and more and more places require it (I work in IT).  Even as a senior level exec where I operate now, having the project management experience makes me much more successful, but I'd be lying if I said that the PMBOK methodology is what has made me successful.  The PMP was a tool to open a door and provide a basis for intelligent discussions and to provide some framework to build off of.  I feel it is a useful credential.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2017, 11:56:22 AM »
I keep my PMP current because it is a benefit to have as a differentiator for hiring, and more and more places require it (I work in IT).  Even as a senior level exec where I operate now, having the project management experience makes me much more successful, but I'd be lying if I said that the PMBOK methodology is what has made me successful.  The PMP was a tool to open a door and provide a basis for intelligent discussions and to provide some framework to build off of.  I feel it is a useful credential.
Agree 100%

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2017, 12:07:53 PM »
Okay,  I am an engineer and I teach one of the PMP classes as night school at the local college.

Goldielocks, I forgot to follow up on this before. How did you go about becoming a night school teacher? I'd definitely be interested in something similar to this as a side-hussle in a couple of years, especially if teaching not-super-difficult technical classes is an option.

...Furthermore, how did the college let you teach a PMP class without having the actual certification itself? Seems like you found an excellent gig.

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2017, 12:38:05 PM »
In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

I'd rather be right than just give an answer to get someone's approval;).  And yes, I am an engineering grad....and a stubborn one at that.

boarder42

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2017, 03:47:22 PM »
In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

I'd rather be right than just give an answer to get someone's approval;).  And yes, I am an engineering grad....and a stubborn one at that.

but also in the world of REAL engineering there is never 1 solution or even a best solution.  there are multiple solutions and judgement calls still need to be made.  in easy cookie cutter engineering creativity is not needed and their is typically only one good solution.

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #59 on: February 15, 2017, 09:51:00 PM »
but also in the world of REAL engineering there is never 1 solution or even a best solution.  there are multiple solutions and judgement calls still need to be made.  in easy cookie cutter engineering creativity is not needed and their is typically only one good solution.


Totally agree with you here, but from what I've learned so far about the PMP exam (I did start taking the free classes), that kind of thinking is likely to end up hurting anyone trying to take that exam.

So far I've been "suspending my engineering brain" everytime I walk into the classroom. Seems to be serving me well so far.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2017, 06:15:30 AM »
This ^^^ is why a lot of my PMP prep was taking sample exams. That was very helpful for identifying areas I needed more study or where my natural judgement didn't agree with PMI.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2017, 06:57:34 PM »
In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

I'd rather be right than just give an answer to get someone's approval;).  And yes, I am an engineering grad....and a stubborn one at that.

but also in the world of REAL engineering there is never 1 solution or even a best solution.  there are multiple solutions and judgement calls still need to be made.  in easy cookie cutter engineering creativity is not needed and their is typically only one good solution.

You literally just said exactly what I said, so we're in agreement...only you're still arguing.  Why?   

boarder42

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2017, 05:07:45 AM »
In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

I'd rather be right than just give an answer to get someone's approval;).  And yes, I am an engineering grad....and a stubborn one at that.

but also in the world of REAL engineering there is never 1 solution or even a best solution.  there are multiple solutions and judgement calls still need to be made.  in easy cookie cutter engineering creativity is not needed and their is typically only one good solution.

You literally just said exactly what I said, so we're in agreement...only you're still arguing.  Why?

You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution. I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution. These are conflicting statements.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2017, 06:36:49 AM »

You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution. I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution. These are conflicting statements.

Huh?  Let me repeat that for you and I'll color-code the parts that are exactly the same or substantially the same. 
Quote
You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution.
I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution.

Maybe I need to explain this a different way.  I think by now we both agree that engineers are going to say that there isn't one way or one solution.  Agree?

I never made a judgment as to whether or not there is or is not one way or one best way.  But the exam asks for "the best way".  And this is routinely what we see as responses:

Q:  What is the best way to do XYZ?
A:  There is no best way.

Can you guess what the exam grader will do? 

So my advice continues to be, pretend the question is written as such:
Q:  What does PMI think is the best way to do XYZ?
Because then you don't have agree with the statement or not.  You just answer the question as it is written in the book. 

SKL-HOU

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2017, 09:15:27 AM »

You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution. I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution. These are conflicting statements.

Huh?  Let me repeat that for you and I'll color-code the parts that are exactly the same or substantially the same. 
Quote
You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution.
I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution.

Maybe I need to explain this a different way.  I think by now we both agree that engineers are going to say that there isn't one way or one solution.  Agree?

You said engineers complain that there is no one way to answer the question. What boarder is saying is why would engineers complain about that when there is no one way to do things in engineering? (Meaning neither engineering nor PMP has one solution) it is funny that you highlight the same words without looking at or understanding the whole sentence.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 09:17:31 AM by SKL-HOU »

Goldielocks

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2017, 12:22:27 AM »
In the software world I saw, experience and references were far more valuable than certifications. I'm pretty sure someone with a PMP certification with no project management background wouldn't be as valuable as someone with a project management background and no certs.


You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer.
Bwha ha ha ha

I had an Engineering Intern, that we were having trouble progress past the preliminary stage, apply for PMP designation.  Because his degree had a lot of project management classes in it (documented training), and because he wrote up his co-op time plus the 2-3 years with (my) consulting engineering firm assisting projects as work experience, and he passed the PMP test, he obtained his PMP.  without my signature.

When I found out, and realized that I (his supervisor) would not have signed off on his engineering experience so far (partly because I would not trust him to lead any portion of the project work we had, large or small, even after 3 years), it was the trigger to let him go (fire).

I am not sure how he got his PMP experience qualified, but is certainly wasn't from his employer for all of his post - university work.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2017, 06:51:31 AM »
You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer.

You self-report your PM experience hours and provide a contact person for each organization. My contact people were never contacted so I my experience was not verified at all. In theory they could check by calling/emailing that contact person. In practice I don't know any PMP where that happened.

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2017, 08:10:40 AM »
I will jump in as there is a lot of misinformation here.    I design and teach the PMP exam at a college REP and am asked to teach at other places as a casual consultant.   I also teach a certification course (local not PMP) and applied and beginner courses for project management as night and weekend classes, and in my spare time.  I used to work in a PMO and was a project management consultant in my regular day job.   I have coach and taught us over a thousand students.  I am happy to answer questions for project management and the PMP as I am up to date more than people who wrote years ago, as I am starting to prepare for the next PMBOK6 changes. 

The value of a PMP for engineers (or non engineers)  is worth it under some circumstances.   I would say usually about 50 - 60% of my students are engineers.  I find that engineers that want to be more in the project management aspect or managerial aspect are the ones it will help.  I have a some close friends who are great engineers but hate dealing with people, and don't want to manage them, they prefer technicals specks, a PMP will not help them UNLESS they play to move companies.   

 A PMP does NOT mean they are good project managers.  What it does say is that they have the experience (4500 hours with a university degree leading projects or aspects of). And they have written a well accepted framework for Project management.  They should understand what, when, and how to use the tools.   Whether they use the tools properly or not is outside of PMIs control.  I use the analog, one has to get a MD to be certified to practice being a dr.   That certication means that they have the knowledge to be a dr, it doesn't mean they will be a good dr.   Same idea here.

Project  management(PM) is a different practice than engineering, (Or IT, construction), etc).   It is a softer science.  This what ALOT of my engineers have challenges with.   Being an engineer does not give them much of an advantage, in fact many engineers are more linear, detailed, and logical which is great for engineering, but it's hard for the PMP.  There are certain personalities types that will that will struggle more on the exam, I can usually have a pretty good idea on who will have problems, and who will struggle, and who will not pass.  It's not all engineers, but it is usually them  that do complain about the exam is not being logical.   The exam is actually fairly logical, BUT in the way that PMI views it.   Which is not necessarily reflective of how project are run for some people real life.   ITa the PMI isms that must be learned and understood.  Its understanding the PMIism its hard to pass the exam.

People, especially engineers who try and u derstanding it one their own, find it frustrating and quite frankly it makes no sense why in the world would PMI do that.   In fact, I learned the PMIisms to pass the exam, however did not truly understand until years later on how, why, when, where, they are applied.  I can totally understand why people (not just engineers hate it).  One can learn the the PMI way of thinking just by taking test, which is one part of the recommended strategies, but they will never get the full understanding.   Which if you are not a PM practioner, who cares.  I actullay love Project management and use it all the time, so it was fitting that I ended up teaching it. 

So my thought is, if your is company is willing to pay, and you are willing to work, there is study time involved, then go for it.    I will post more on studying and tips if you are interested. 


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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2017, 08:17:29 AM »
Some Background:
 it seems that the company has absolutely no respect for the certification at all
[/quote

You're lucky you get a class to walk through it.  I had to research all the books, purchase them, and study on my own time.  It was a pain in the butt.  If I could have just sat in a class for a few hours a week, that would have been great!

This.   One of the fastest ways to get your PMP is to take a GOOD class.  People who take preps classes study about 100-160 hours on average vs much more for those who don't.   The Mao. Reason is knowing what to study and how.  A food class will lay that out along with all the resources.   There is a lot of lousy info on the internet, one bad source sets you back a week trying to figure what hell are they talking about.

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2017, 08:25:09 AM »
I just wanted to point out that the pass rate for the PMP is around 60-70%.

Source: https://edward-designer.com/web/faqs/what-is-the-passing-rate-of-pmp-exam/

Quote
Since PMI does not disclose any passing mark or passing rate for the PMP® Exam, no one knows the exact answer to this question.

But according to PMP® training organizations and study groups, it is estimated that the passing rate is about 60%-70%. The passing rate is certainly not too high as PMI tries to maintain the quality of PMP® Certification – only those who truly possess enough knowledge on project management will pass the PMP® Exam.

From your source. Note that PMI and all the training organizations benefit from people thinking the exam is harder than it is. So lacking any hard data around pass rates I would be sceptical of what they are using for marketing and credential credibility purposes.

On top of that I've taken business classes they are a cake walk compared to engineering. I'd like to see the engineering degree pass rates on the PMP. Probably not available

You are right, PMI does not publish, but I would say about 60-70% pass right. General, keep in mind more engineers write the exam than other groups, at least in my area.  I have spoken to many engineers after they write the exam, it is easier than what you take in engineering, that's not supposed to be the comparison.   I think a lot of them found it harder than they expected.  I do pretty good job of scaring my students to study so they don't under estimate it though.   I have at least one student a session, usually a really smart engineer, who wrote the exam on their own and failed.   They are usually a good reinforcement it's not a cakewalk for all. 

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2017, 08:28:53 AM »
but also in the world of REAL engineering there is never 1 solution or even a best solution.  there are multiple solutions and judgement calls still need to be made.  in easy cookie cutter engineering creativity is not needed and their is typically only one good solution.


Totally agree with you here, but from what I've learned so far about the PMP exam (I did start taking the free classes), that kind of thinking is likely to end up hurting anyone trying to take that exam.

So far I've been "suspending my engineering brain" everytime I walk into the classroom. Seems to be serving me well so far.

This is actually good advice.   I tell my engineers that this is not an engineering exam.   One of the PMI views  is that projects can be of any form.  It can be consider a massive restrictions, construction IT, an event planning, extra.   They get managed the same way.  passing the exam is about understanding the framework, and asking what would PMI do. 

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2017, 08:34:54 AM »
In the software world I saw, experience and references were far more valuable than certifications. I'm pretty sure someone with a PMP certification with no project management background wouldn't be as valuable as someone with a project management background and no certs.


You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer.
Bwha ha ha ha

I had an Engineering Intern, that we were having trouble progress past the preliminary stage, apply for PMP designation.  Because his degree had a lot of project management classes in it (documented training), and because he wrote up his co-op time plus the 2-3 years with (my) consulting engineering firm assisting projects as work experience, and he passed the PMP test, he obtained his PMP.  without my signature.

When I found out, and realized that I (his supervisor) would not have signed off on his engineering experience so far (partly because I would not trust him to lead any portion of the project work we had, large or small, even after 3 years), it was the trigger to let him go (fire).

I am not sure how he got his PMP experience qualified, but is certainly wasn't from his employer for all of his post - university work.

You don't need t get a signature UNLESS they get audited.   If you really wanted to get back at the person, you could have just called PMI and they would have launched an investigation, though that would be really mean

Plugging Along

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2017, 08:37:53 AM »
You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer.

You self-report your PM experience hours and provide a contact person for each organization. My contact people were never contacted so I my experience was not verified at all. In theory they could check by calling/emailing that contact person. In practice I don't know any PMP where that happened.
I was audited through the random process.  The verification is pretty easy though, each person you list on their application as the sponsor or managers must verify and sign off on a sheet declaring the description is accurate.   About 10-15% is audited now.      They occasionally have called all the contacts too, but that is rare. 

caracarn

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2017, 07:47:18 AM »
You cannot get a PMP without proof of thousands of hours of project management work signed of by an employer.

You self-report your PM experience hours and provide a contact person for each organization. My contact people were never contacted so I my experience was not verified at all. In theory they could check by calling/emailing that contact person. In practice I don't know any PMP where that happened.

Maybe it was because I got my PMP a while ago.  We had to provide a letter signed by the employer(s) to backup every claim, and they did call my boss who is the one that signed for me.  Again this was in 2003 when communication mediums were a bit less advanced than they are now.  If that changed, then I feel it is a detriment.

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2017, 07:54:28 AM »


Maybe it was because I got my PMP a while ago.  We had to provide a letter signed by the employer(s) to backup every claim, and they did call my boss who is the one that signed for me.  Again this was in 2003 when communication mediums were a bit less advanced than they are now.  If that changed, then I feel it is a detriment.

If you got your PMP in 2003 and had the call, then you were audited back then. It was under 5% of the applications that got audited.  I got audited too.   Now, it's a higher percentage. 

Fred2004

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2017, 08:17:38 AM »

For some reason this reminds me of a class i took for MBA. The teacher was explaining something to do with graphs and causally said to use the triangle area formula. Out of about 20 people in the class, maybe 3 people knew! These are college educated people. Granted the teacher was too technical for the class (90% switched classes that day) but i was shocked that people don't know basic math. So you are probably right, engineers probably have a better outcome.

 could you explain how you reached this conclusion (in bold)?

have you been an engineer and taken engineering classes.  and also taken business classes.  I can see why so many of my generation have business degrees and cant find jobs.  those classes could be passed in your sleep in my opinion. a PMP degree cert that requires you to take 35 hours of courses and you can pass the test at a 65%+ passing rate.  seems like a joke to me. People study for months to pass the PE ( i didnt but people do)  and still fail, this is in addition to usually 4 years of doing work directly in the field for the test.

That being said i'm sure i would learn things if i were to get a PMP that would be very helpful.  But that doesnt change the intelligence level needed to pass the exam.

So, if you had taken the time to understand anything at all about the PMP exam, you would know that it doesn't require much intelligence at all to pass it.  It does require some level of memorization based on when I took the exam.  In my experience, engineers actually do worse because it takes them a really long time to stop complaining about how there isn't just one way to complete a process, or even one best way.  But the exam is based on a (few) book(s), so you really have to memorize PMI's method and order of events to pass their test.  There is literally NO MATH involved.  No Logic either.  No problem solving.  It is a regurgitation of ideas that aren't even the best ideas. Sometimes engineers are so stubborn that they will take the exam, know the answer that PMI is looking for, and still give a different answer.  Why?  because they're right.  What does that get them?  A failing grade.  I have had to instruct many people that the exam isn't looking for the correct answer...it's looking for the PMI answer. 

Do you have any understanding that the PMP certification is not and has never been compared to the PE exam except somehow in this thread?  They measure vastly different levels of knowledge.  The PMP certification is a money making tool for PMI and they've built a huge business around it.  And THAT, my friend, is why business majors come out on top.  Because they can take an imperfect idea and make a HUGE business around it.  Where is the engineer?  Probably building an excel spreadsheet with charts and graphs about why engineers should get better grades.

What Blue said.  Engineers don't really go for this unless they want to be PM's...usually for folks in the PMO.

You can take a week long course and take the exam at the end and pass.  It's not a big deal IMO...fluff for resume

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2017, 10:32:57 AM »

You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution. I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution. These are conflicting statements.

Huh?  Let me repeat that for you and I'll color-code the parts that are exactly the same or substantially the same. 
Quote
You said engineers complain their isn't 1 way or one solution.
I was saying in the world of real engineering there isn't one way or one solution.

Maybe I need to explain this a different way.  I think by now we both agree that engineers are going to say that there isn't one way or one solution.  Agree?

You said engineers complain that there is no one way to answer the question. What boarder is saying is why would engineers complain about that when there is no one way to do things in engineering? (Meaning neither engineering nor PMP has one solution) it is funny that you highlight the same words without looking at or understanding the whole sentence.
Well, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, it all sounds like exactly the same words.  I do not understand how two people can use the exact same words and then a third can come around and explain that one set of those words means something completely different.   I'm a pretty literal person, so when someone says something, I expect that that's what it means. 

Also, I don't understand why when you accuse me of taking something out of context, you would then remove the final part of my message that just might put us all on the same page.

So my advice continues to be, pretend the question is written as such:
Q:  What does PMI think is the best way to do XYZ?
Because then you don't have agree with the statement or not.  You just answer the question as it is written in the book. 

All I can tell you is that I'm someone who has not only taken and passed the exam, but I helped write and formulate some of the exams some years ago.  Someone asked the question, and I responded with the best information I have:  do not attempt to be correct.  instead, provide the answer that PMI tells you is the correct answer. 

I do not know how to say this any other way.  But if you still don't understand, then I cannot help you anymore.   

boarder42

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2017, 01:47:08 PM »
blue house they are completely different statements polar opposites infact.

Your statement was engineers COMPLAIN if there isnt ONE way
i said real engineering has MORE than ONE correct way.

if you cant see how those are exactly opposite statements i cant help you. 

SKL-HOU

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2017, 05:20:57 PM »
blue house they are completely different statements polar opposites infact.

Your statement was engineers COMPLAIN if there isnt ONE way
i said real engineering has MORE than ONE correct way.

if you cant see how those are exactly opposite statements i cant help you.

I am pretty sure you are wasting your time at this point.

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2017, 12:04:51 PM »
Thanks for all the insight Plugging Along.

I design and teach the PMP exam at a college REP and am asked to teach at other places as a casual consultant.   I also teach a certification course (local not PMP) and applied and beginner courses for project management as night and weekend classes, and in my spare time....


I'm more curious than anything, but how did you go from working in a PM position to becoming a teacher of PMP and other (related) PM courses? As I'm going through my classes (each session is taught by a different instructor), I can see that some are really good, and then there are others that are not so good. Seems like an interesting switch and something that is a little more low stress, especially for someone who is towards the tail end of FI savings.


I will post more on studying and tips if you are interested.

I would love that!

Goldielocks

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2017, 06:04:05 PM »
Thanks for all the insight Plugging Along.


I'm more curious than anything, but how did you go from working in a PM position to becoming a teacher of PMP and other (related) PM courses? As I'm going through my classes (each session is taught by a different instructor), I can see that some are really good, and then there are others that are not so good. Seems like an interesting switch and something that is a little more low stress, especially for someone who is towards the tail end of FI savings.

I know you did not ask me, but I got into it just by calling the head of the local technical institute (like community college that now offers degrees) if there were any openings for Part time instructors (evening) in the operations management / business school.   They look for a combination of advanced degrees (preferred, not required) and experience in the subject.   This is not trade / technical school, not a tier one university.

I was hoping for a different subject, but project management is growing rapidly.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2017, 12:42:13 PM »
blue house they are completely different statements polar opposites infact.

Your statement was engineers COMPLAIN if there isnt ONE way
i said real engineering has MORE than ONE correct way.

if you cant see how those are exactly opposite statements i cant help you.

I tried to stay away because this is so silly at this point, but I just can't do it. 
If I understand you correctly, you are equating "COMPLAIN" with "MORE" and that just doesn't make sense at all.  They're completely different word forms. One is a verb and one is an adjective.  I think what you find issue with is me equating "complain" with "said".  That would make a little more sense.   Anyway, you're making my point for me and I find it hysterical.  How does this sit with you: 
"Some engineers are unwilling to mark a substandard answer on a multiple choice question, even if they know that mark will be the one that scores the point."
Does that explanation work for you?

Plugging Along

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2017, 11:50:21 PM »
Thanks for all the insight Plugging Along.

I design and teach the PMP exam at a college REP and am asked to teach at other places as a casual consultant.   I also teach a certification course (local not PMP) and applied and beginner courses for project management as night and weekend classes, and in my spare time....


I'm more curious than anything, but how did you go from working in a PM position to becoming a teacher of PMP and other (related) PM courses? As I'm going through my classes (each session is taught by a different instructor), I can see that some are really good, and then there are others that are not so good. Seems like an interesting switch and something that is a little more low stress, especially for someone who is towards the tail end of FI savings.


I will post more on studying and tips if you are interested.

I would love that!

I have quite a different background than a lot of PMs.   I am not an engineer, in construction or in IT.   I did a lot of continuous improvement, and strategy type projects.  I also managed a training group, hence I was able to teach too.    Teaching is my part time thing I do for fun, because I really enjoy project management.  I have a full time job in  The day too.   Fortunately for me, i enjoy both what I do. 

I got in by applying at the local college and they brought me in after an ineterview and a sample of my training style.  I get asked to teach /consult quite frequently from my students.     My spouse and I also have our own consulting firm (I am a busy person) too.    I find teaching is a different stress.   I teach full consequetive days, so I find its out have to be 'on' for the whole time.  My students have tones of questions so I end up skipping lunches, breaks, and staying to ask their questions.   I find I get anxious for students whent hey are not getting it and the exam is close.   I really want to see them succeed.    During the days I teach, there is no time for anything else.   You can't call in sick, or be late if there is an emergency.    On the other hand, once the class is done, the stress is over, even though many of my student still contact me for tips.  though, I have no major intent to RE, I like the idea of having this as a side gig. 

In terms of tips, it easier if you ask specific questions.  I can answer them rather than giving random information.

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #83 on: March 22, 2017, 10:28:23 PM »
I know you did not ask me, but I got into it just by calling the head of the local technical institute (like community college that now offers degrees) if there were any openings for Part time instructors (evening) in the operations management / business school.   They look for a combination of advanced degrees (preferred, not required) and experience in the subject.   This is not trade / technical school, not a tier one university.

I was hoping for a different subject, but project management is growing rapidly.

...I got in by applying at the local college and they brought me in after an ineterview and a sample of my training style.  I get asked to teach /consult quite frequently from my students.     My spouse and I also have our own consulting firm (I am a busy person) too...

Thanks for the responses here. Did you have to develop your own curriculum, or did you just base it off of the PMBOK and go from there? And/or did the college give you materials to work with?

Also, PluggingAlong, what in your opinion is the best study method? I'm doing "Brain Dumps" (writing out of pertinent information) about twice a week, and plan on taking 1-2 weeks after the class ends but before the exam to just take many many many practice exams. Think I'm on the right track?

Goldielocks

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #84 on: March 22, 2017, 10:44:39 PM »
I know you did not ask me, but I got into it just by calling the head of the local technical institute (like community college that now offers degrees) if there were any openings for Part time instructors (evening) in the operations management / business school.   They look for a combination of advanced degrees (preferred, not required) and experience in the subject.   This is not trade / technical school, not a tier one university.

I was hoping for a different subject, but project management is growing rapidly.

...I got in by applying at the local college and they brought me in after an ineterview and a sample of my training style.  I get asked to teach /consult quite frequently from my students.     My spouse and I also have our own consulting firm (I am a busy person) too...

Thanks for the responses here. Did you have to develop your own curriculum, or did you just base it off of the PMBOK and go from there? And/or did the college give you materials to work with?

Also, PluggingAlong, what in your opinion is the best study method? I'm doing "Brain Dumps" (writing out of pertinent information) about twice a week, and plan on taking 1-2 weeks after the class ends but before the exam to just take many many many practice exams. Think I'm on the right track?

My course is the last one of 5 in the PMP certificate / training certificate they issue.  I was given a half page course objectives and learning outcomes, and had to develop a curriculum based on that.   I also received a suggested textbook that was used in two of the first classes in the series to help, or I could randomly choose my own.   Steep learning curve to put it (content) together the first time.  And yeah, writing an exam is more intimidating at first to start it than actually doing it.

FLBiker

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2017, 05:13:01 AM »
Personally, my opinion is if the emphasis (in terms of your motivation) is on getting the qualification rather than on the learning itself, and the qualification doesn't get you anything tangible, I wouldn't bother.  Free or not is irrelevant to me.  Time is valuable.  I'd only do it if you think the course would be interesting / fun for it's own sake.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2017, 07:45:58 AM »
Personally, my opinion is if the emphasis (in terms of your motivation) is on getting the qualification rather than on the learning itself, and the qualification doesn't get you anything tangible, I wouldn't bother.  Free or not is irrelevant to me.  Time is valuable.  I'd only do it if you think the course would be interesting / fun for it's own sake.
By this measure, I would have to give my certification back. 

Gondolin

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2017, 08:46:10 AM »
Quote
Do you have any understanding that the PMP certification is not and has never been compared to the PE exam except somehow in this thread?

This. I can't fathom why these two assessments are being compared. It's like comparing getting your Boy Scout's First Aid badge to completing your MD with a specialty in podiatry.

The PMP is a soft well-marketed hurdle that impresses some people in a few industries.

The PE is a rigorous national professional certificate that exists so people know who to sue if you build a building and it falls down.

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #88 on: March 29, 2017, 09:26:24 PM »

My course is the last one of 5 in the PMP certificate / training certificate they issue.  I was given a half page course objectives and learning outcomes, and had to develop a curriculum based on that.   I also received a suggested textbook that was used in two of the first classes in the series to help, or I could randomly choose my own.   Steep learning curve to put it (content) together the first time.  And yeah, writing an exam is more intimidating at first to start it than actually doing it.

Thanks! this is the sort of info I was looking for.

Blissful Biker

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #89 on: March 29, 2017, 10:45:34 PM »
I always recommend getting a PMP because it is "good bang for the buck".  It has say 20% of the market value of an MBA for 1% of the effort.  But I also don't personally respect it a lot because a monkey could get a PMP.

I signed up for an exam prep class at my local college but grew frustrated with the pace and ended up just working my way through Rita McCulahy's Exam Prep Workbook.  Much faster than going to the class and I passed with no problem (even after I found out I was expecting my first child the night before the exam!).

Here is a link to a free download of her latest workbook.  Or if you love the feel of real books, like I do, order on Amazon instead.

http://innovativeprojectguide.com/pmp-exam/6-pmp-exam/300-free-download-pmp-exam-prep-book-pdf-rita-mulcahy.html

I kept the PMP for 12 years and eventually gave it up because I had progressed successfully in my project management career to the point where the designation was no longer valuable.   I would have kept it to show my support for PMI but at $300 a year it had to go.  My P. Eng is another $300 per year but I am keeping that.

Plugging Along

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2017, 12:21:27 AM »
I know you did not ask me, but I got into it just by calling the head of the local technical institute (like community college that now offers degrees) if there were any openings for Part time instructors (evening) in the operations management / business school.   They look for a combination of advanced degrees (preferred, not required) and experience in the subject.   This is not trade / technical school, not a tier one university.

I was hoping for a different subject, but project management is growing rapidly.

...I got in by applying at the local college and they brought me in after an ineterview and a sample of my training style.  I get asked to teach /consult quite frequently from my students.     My spouse and I also have our own consulting firm (I am a busy person) too...

Thanks for the responses here. Did you have to develop your own curriculum, or did you just base it off of the PMBOK and go from there? And/or did the college give you materials to work with?

Also, PluggingAlong, what in your opinion is the best study method? I'm doing "Brain Dumps" (writing out of pertinent information) about twice a week, and plan on taking 1-2 weeks after the class ends but before the exam to just take many many many practice exams. Think I'm on the right track?

The curriculum is based on the PMBOK, as that is the foundation for the exam.  I sat in a class where the PMBOK was regurgitate, and it was awful.  Obviously, I know how to read.   My base material is based off the PMBOK, but the real value is the interpretation on the content which I add.   That's why students take my class. 

Writing out pertainent information will only get you so far, and it's really boring, it also doesn't make the connections nor the way PMI really wants you to answer it.   Writing out the info, is good for understanding the glossary, but not great for passing the exam.    Honestly, I recommend picking up Rita Mulcahleys PMP exam prep text book.   Don't be too mustachian and pick up an older but cheaper version (the exam has changed).  Get version 8 Updated (like version B).    I usually recommend student that's self study read through the PMBOK, make some notes, go through the glossary (critical that you know the PMI terms because they make up fake terms), the go through rIta's book.   Do the questions there, then do practice tests and questions.   I am currently out of town, so don't have my outline on my recommended study tips, but will try and post when I get back if I remember. 

What PMI did of class are you taking?   Can you post a link or a sample curriculum.   Not all are great. 


Plugging Along

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #91 on: March 30, 2017, 12:27:05 AM »
I always recommend getting a PMP because it is "good bang for the buck".  It has say 20% of the market value of an MBA for 1% of the effort.  But I also don't personally respect it a lot because a monkey could get a PMP.

I signed up for an exam prep class at my local college but grew frustrated with the pace and ended up just working my way through Rita McCulahy's Exam Prep Workbook.  Much faster than going to the class and I passed with no problem (even after I found out I was expecting my first child the night before the exam!).

Here is a link to a free download of her latest workbook.  Or if you love the feel of real books, like I do, order on Amazon instead.

http://innovativeprojectguide.com/pmp-exam/6-pmp-exam/300-free-download-pmp-exam-prep-book-pdf-rita-mulcahy.html

I kept the PMP for 12 years and eventually gave it up because I had progressed successfully in my project management career to the point where the designation was no longer valuable.   I would have kept it to show my support for PMI but at $300 a year it had to go.  My P. Eng is another $300 per year but I am keeping that.

I am just curious why you are playing $300 a year for the the PMP?   The renewal fee is $60 every 5 years if you have a memebership, or $110 if you don't.   Quite honestly, I usually only pay for my membership on years I plan on going to a conference, and then I renew my PDFs that year too.    Where did the $300 come from. 

BuffaloStache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #92 on: April 03, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »
The curriculum is based on the PMBOK, as that is the foundation for the exam.  I sat in a class where the PMBOK was regurgitate, and it was awful.  Obviously, I know how to read.   My base material is based off the PMBOK, but the real value is the interpretation on the content which I add.   That's why students take my class. 

Writing out pertainent information will only get you so far, and it's really boring, it also doesn't make the connections nor the way PMI really wants you to answer it.   Writing out the info, is good for understanding the glossary, but not great for passing the exam.    Honestly, I recommend picking up Rita Mulcahleys PMP exam prep text book.   Don't be too mustachian and pick up an older but cheaper version (the exam has changed).  Get version 8 Updated (like version B).    I usually recommend student that's self study read through the PMBOK, make some notes, go through the glossary (critical that you know the PMI terms because they make up fake terms), the go through rIta's book.   Do the questions there, then do practice tests and questions.   I am currently out of town, so don't have my outline on my recommended study tips, but will try and post when I get back if I remember. 

What PMI did of class are you taking?   Can you post a link or a sample curriculum.   Not all are great.

Thanks for the response. Since my company is a subsidiary/part owned by the Boeing Company, the course is the Boeing Company's internal PMP exam prep class. They have paid all the necessary fees to make it an "official" prep course (certificates are issued at the end of the class that are valid for the exam), but each session is taught by a different instructor. Some of the instructors are very good, and others just regurgitate the PMBOK and are terrible.

Based on your advice and the advice of others I did go ahead and purchase Rita McCulahy's prep book. I plan on working through that in it's entirety before I take the exam (TBD, but I think I'll target an exam date sometime over the summer).

pmalik

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #93 on: January 02, 2018, 11:17:37 PM »
Yes, PMP Certification is worth it for Engineers.
It has many advantages, for example:
*It provides a significant advantage when it comes to salary and earning potential.
*It opens doors to new opportunities. There is a high demand for the skilled project managers in various different industries.

mm1970

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #94 on: January 03, 2018, 09:25:57 AM »
I saw this thread pop back up based on a more recent comment.

It's interesting to me, because I"m an engineer (have been for 25+ years), and was just, um, forced into a Project Manager position.  (Without any kind of PM training or cert.)

So far, I don't much like it.  It certainly didn't come with a promotion or raise.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2018, 09:27:25 AM »
So far, I don't much like it.  It certainly didn't come with a promotion or raise.

It can be a demotion! ;)

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2018, 10:41:26 AM »
I saw this thread pop back up based on a more recent comment.

It's interesting to me, because I"m an engineer (have been for 25+ years), and was just, um, forced into a Project Manager position.  (Without any kind of PM training or cert.)

So far, I don't much like it.  It certainly didn't come with a promotion or raise.
If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you don't like about being a project manager?  It's one of the few positions that pays a salary similar to mine that I think I might be qualified for.  My concern is that it seems like most PM positions are roughly akin to herding cats.

mm1970

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2018, 01:00:36 PM »
I saw this thread pop back up based on a more recent comment.

It's interesting to me, because I"m an engineer (have been for 25+ years), and was just, um, forced into a Project Manager position.  (Without any kind of PM training or cert.)

So far, I don't much like it.  It certainly didn't come with a promotion or raise.
If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you don't like about being a project manager?  It's one of the few positions that pays a salary similar to mine that I think I might be qualified for.  My concern is that it seems like most PM positions are roughly akin to herding cats.

Basically, I don't like herding cats.

I think I have an affinity for it - I'm very organized and good at keeping track of many things.  And good at record-keeping (*important for finding the information later, especially as you age and should not rely on memory.  I'm a stickler for documentation.)

I simply prefer the more technical engineering work, running a couple of projects, improving yields, doing data analysis.  So far this feels like it's going to be herding cats, also seems a bit like it's not a *true* PM job.  Not that I know what that is.  But I did google.

BlueHouse

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2018, 02:39:56 PM »
I saw this thread pop back up based on a more recent comment.

It's interesting to me, because I"m an engineer (have been for 25+ years), and was just, um, forced into a Project Manager position.  (Without any kind of PM training or cert.)

So far, I don't much like it.  It certainly didn't come with a promotion or raise.
If you don't mind me asking, what is it that you don't like about being a project manager?  It's one of the few positions that pays a salary similar to mine that I think I might be qualified for.  My concern is that it seems like most PM positions are roughly akin to herding cats.

Basically, I don't like herding cats.

I think I have an affinity for it - I'm very organized and good at keeping track of many things.  And good at record-keeping (*important for finding the information later, especially as you age and should not rely on memory.  I'm a stickler for documentation.)

I simply prefer the more technical engineering work, running a couple of projects, improving yields, doing data analysis.  So far this feels like it's going to be herding cats, also seems a bit like it's not a *true* PM job.  Not that I know what that is.  But I did google.
yep, it's all about herding cats.  You do other stuff too.  Sometimes cool stuff, sometimes not.  But you have to be able to herd cats or you won't succeed at project management. 

Minnowstache

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Re: Engineers: Is PMP certification worth it?
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2018, 03:19:03 PM »
Agree with BlueHorse - project management is herding cats! I am an IT PM with 25yrs experience :) larger the project - more cats - best thing to do is learn about personality types - people that used drive me crazy now just make me roll my eyes and adapt to their working/communication style (unless they are incompetent and then all bets are off). I think my advantage is I don’t come from a technical background but I am quick to pick up technical concepts. I don’t have an engineer brain but understand how they work. I have a degree in English literature! I am not a visual person and hate that the fact that people have to write on a board to understand concepts - but I put up with it as most people I work with seem to like it and I even use it myself on occasion.

 Going back to the original topic, I have prince2 rather than pmp but I have found the qualification really helped my earning potential and credibility. I know pmp is more or less defacto in the states but if you live somewhere where Prince2 is offered do that as it is easier and, I think, a little more sensible. However, neither teach you much about PM - I think personality type and experience give you that.