Author Topic: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?  (Read 3224 times)

gettingtoyes

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Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« on: April 16, 2023, 02:06:24 PM »
I've been pondering whether to get a commuter electric bike and wanted to opinions on if it's worth it or not. I'm thinking the cost savings might be negligible but good for the environment/exercise and just wanted to get a sense are there other benefits or cost savings I'm not thinking of...

Situation: Married, 2 kids. Husband WFH

Cars: 2009 Toyota Prius with 150,000 miles, 2017 Chevrolet Bolt (fully electric, range 259 miles, just got free new battery). Both fully paid off.

Commute: DH doesn't commute although he does take the kids to daycare & school (12 miles & 2 miles away respectively). He is a very nervous bike rider and doesn't even like the idea of me riding a bike because of the risk of bad drivers and accidents, but he wouldn't stop me from doing it. When I say he's nervous, he is even very hesitant to take out our tricycle with basket for the big kid to go on the 2 mile commute to school with half of it being on sidewalks.

I work in health care doing mostly 24 hour shifts at several hospitals along with some admin time. I average about 1x24 hour shift per week and am required to go to multiple hospitals.

The primary one that I go to about 50% of the time is about 12 miles away.

The other ones are farther, 20 miles (would need to bike, no good public transportation), 40 miles (pretty good public transport as it's to a major city and I could probably bike to the bus and the commute time would be roughly the same as driving), 50 miles (requires a car, no good public transport).

The big kicker is the last hospital which requires a car for me to drive, but I can't drop that hospital because of job requirements. I don't want to change jobs as my employer pays the best in the region on an order of probably at least $10-20,000 plus I think my quality of life would drop as it would be going into a private medical group (ironic- usually it's the other way around).

So, really, this would be a bike for going to the primary hospital, maybe the 20 mile distance hospital, about 24-30 times per year of about 48 times a year I commute.

Are there any other upsides besides saving cost of gas (~$4/gallon) in the Prius, good environmental citizen, exercise benefits that I am missing?

I am assuming to calculate a breakeven point I would just calculate the cost of gas per mile in the Prius with the cost to charge the electric bike and the difference against the cost of the bike. I do have some basic bike gear already.

Any other ideas?

314159

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2023, 02:45:31 PM »
Personally I think any mustachian considering an ebike should just buy one and be done with it, to start enjoying the benefits as soon as possible! They are cheap enough compared to a car that between the irritation of driving saved and the health benefits, it's very often worth it to err strongly to the side of purchasing.

It's unfortunate to hear your husband is so hesitant around bikes, even more so that he doesn't like the idea of you biking when it's such a wonderful thing. It sounds like he does not have a rational understanding of the risks and benefits. I hope the two of you can figure out a way to make him into a confident rider! Sadly I can't offer any advice on how to do it. Perhaps start by reading the articles I linked?

Kwill

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2023, 02:47:36 PM »
Do you have a regular bicycle that you currently use? If so, how much do you cycle now? It seems like it would be a very big jump to go from no cycling at all to a 24-mile round trip, let alone a 40-mile round trip. What will you do if your tyre is punctured halfway home? Do you have experience with repairs?

I don't think it makes sense to get an electric bicycle for 24-30 rides per year. But it still might make sense to have a bicycle to use for other things. If you don't already cycle regularly, I might start by building that into your local trips before committing to an electric bicycle for infrequent long trips.

gettingtoyes

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2023, 03:11:09 PM »
It's unfortunate to hear your husband is so hesitant around bikes, even more so that he doesn't like the idea of you biking when it's such a wonderful thing. It sounds like he does not have a rational understanding of the risks and benefits. I hope the two of you can figure out a way to make him into a confident rider! Sadly I can't offer any advice on how to do it. Perhaps start by reading the articles I linked?

Thanks! I think most of it is more just general nervousness about riding the bike. I could probably spend some time coaxing him and encouraging him, I think exposure would help. Just the time invested which can be hard to find with 2 small kids and competing priorities. Hoping to teach my 6 year old how to ride a bike this summer, maybe we can make it a more family thing.

Quote
Do you have a regular bicycle that you currently use? If so, how much do you cycle now? It seems like it would be a very big jump to go from no cycling at all to a 24-mile round trip, let alone a 40-mile round trip. What will you do if your tyre is punctured halfway home? Do you have experience with repairs?

I don't think it makes sense to get an electric bicycle for 24-30 rides per year. But it still might make sense to have a bicycle to use for other things. If you don't already cycle regularly, I might start by building that into your local trips before committing to an electric bicycle for infrequent long trips.

Yes, I am comfortable with biking- did a half ironman a few years ago (the bike portion is 56 miles) and have a decent tri bike with clipless pedals. I don't ride nearly as much as I did when I was training, but I also have the tricycle bike with pod that I take my 6 year old to school on occasion. Plus a cheap non-electric cruiser. Altogether there are 3 bikes in our shed plus a kid one, so part of it is...eh, do I really need a 4th bicycle? Sounds quite non-mustaschian! I guess I should have put it in the original post.

But I also know I won't bike the 12 miles to work and be sweaty before a 24 hour shift.

As far as repairs...I do have a kit but I'll be honest, I've never changed a tire. I do watch the ground pretty carefully when riding but I also realize it's just dumb luck it hasn't happened when I'm out far away. I think my backup plan if it happened was to watch a youtube video to do it with my kit but that's pretty dumb and I should know how to do it.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 03:13:14 PM by gettingtoyes »

hdatontodo

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2023, 03:40:43 PM »
I have heard that changing a rear tire with a rear motor e-bike is more difficult than with a mid-drive bike. Also, when I pick up my son's bike, all the weight is in the back.

My front-drive, home-done bike is not a biggie for tire changing or carrying.

I suggest you look into tire changing for the model you are considering.

Yes, get the bike. I love having ones with a throttle for punching it when a light turns green.

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Freedomin5

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2023, 03:46:19 PM »
Is it possible to rent an ebike for a month or two to see how you like it and whether you’ll use it frequently enough to justify purchasing one?

A quick search on the internet tells me there are ebike rental companies. Not sure if there is one in your area.

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2023, 05:21:28 PM »
E-bike for sure.

You may not “break even” but you’ll extend the life of your cars and save by driving less.

2 miles to school drop off is a no brained. Your husband will be able to leave the house, ride to school, walk your kid to class, and ride home before the school car drop off line has done one turn over.

I regularly ride 2-5 miles with 1-3 kids on the bike and use the bike trailer for longer trips.

I think at 12 miles the e-bike is going to be a longer trip than a car. Maybe the cut off is at 3 miles driving becomes significantly faster than e-bike considering traffic buckling in kids and parking.

reeshau

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2023, 05:55:39 AM »
How much are you driving per year?  If it's 15k miles or more, you might be able to save on car insurance by putting a mileage cap on the policy.  They will ask you occasionally for an odometer reading to confirm what you are doing, but it can be better than linear savings, because it implies you aren't commuting with the car, and so missing peak accident times.

almost

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2023, 08:00:21 AM »
I bike a fair amount - maybe 1,000-2,000 miles a year.  Before we got a family ebike, my wife and teenaged children would bike maybe 10-50 miles a year.

I got the family an ebike, hoping it would be their gateway into biking.  It's helped a lot.  My wife probably does about 200 miles a year now.  The kids are still about 10-50 miles annually though.

I take it out for occasional rides if I'm going to be carrying a bunch of heavy stuff.  Or if it's really hot out and I am biking to a social event and don't want to arrive a sweaty mess. 

I got a high-end commuter ebike used for about 50% off retail.  I expect it will last at least 10 years - about twice as long as my used cars do.  I'm not sure if it will pay for itself.  But it is worth it for me to get my wife to ride with me.

Metalcat

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2023, 08:25:43 AM »
I don't know what your financial situation is, but if it's at all reasonably affordable, get the bike.

The biggest factor that you haven't accounted for is the *mental health* component. Bike commuting is astronomically beneficial for your mental health. As a fellow medical professional, I suffered a huge loss when I switched jobs and had to give up my bike commute. I seriously considered parking miles away and biking the remainder just to not lose that part of my routine, except that there was no good route to take.

DH actually passed on a promotion opportunity because it would have required him to give up his bike commute, and he was doing it year round in Canada in a location with particularly nasty winters.

He only gave it up because he works remote now, and we have a gym and pool he can use instead.

We would both happily pay a premium to bike commute instead of driving. No question. It's *that* beneficial mentally both before and after a shift. I would arrive to the clinic mellow and happy and at the end of the day, the ride home would just clear the stresses of the clinic off of me.

We've both described it like an insulator that buffers our personal lives from having work stress leech into them.

100%, highly recommend, even if it's a net expense, it's a lifestyle investment. If it saves you money, that's just a really cool bonus.

Chaplin

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2023, 09:00:46 AM »
On the bike/e-bike/e-cargo-bike spectrum, any of those can replace some car-trips and as you progress along that spectrum the potential for car replacement increases. Getting people out riding more and replacing car trips is great, but it's car-replacement that interests me the most rather than trip replacement.

We've been a two-car family forever for most of the same reasons that many families are, so I fully sympathize and understand - no stones being thrown here. It boils down to cities being designed badly and making it very challenging to meet your needs without a car. Even if the second car is completely redundant 95% of the time, that 5% justifies the second car for many people. For example, if I'm on a road-trip with one car, or just out for some reason, my wife would feel very uncomfortable not having a car available to her. That's a scenario that only occurs once-in-a-while, and when it happens the need for the second car is rare, so it's like a 10% chance of needing/wanting it during a situation that only happens 10% of the time (10% of 10% = 1% actual need)

Now we've finally agreed to drop down to one car (when the older one dies). I would have liked to do this a long time ago, but it definitely would have been a one-sided thing with me  making all of the concessions. Fortunately, philosophically I've come around to wanting to minimize the priority of cars in city-life and design, so I try to do everything I can without a car anyway, at least around town. Inter-city travel is basically car-only in Canada thanks to 50 years of under-investment and active destruction of all alternatives except flying.

The things that have made the difference for us to drop down to one car are:

1. We live close enough to grocery stores and other amenities that we can walk, although it's not as close and dense as it should be. The conspiracy-theory view of being able to walk to the things you need is mind-boggling. As much as our area needs so much improvement, our bike and transit infrastructure is far better than average for North America.

2. We're both FIRE'd, although I'm essentially working full-time at a fun FIRE job (at a bike shop). I can bike to work in pretty much any weather. Being a bike shop we have staff bike hooks indoors, a shower, a bike wash station, rental bikes we can borrow any time, etc. so it's definitely playing the game on easy mode. Additionally, our child is now 14 that simplifies a lot of things compared to the kindergarten plus two full-time jobs phase of our lives.

3. We have a decent car-share in the area with one of the parking spots about 500m away.

4. I had my wife's bike converted to an e-bike and am working on extending her riding season (I'll ride in any weather but she won't) with pogies and possibly a light helmet with a full face-shield (her eyes water in the cold and wind).

5. I'm swapping out my old commuter bike, "The Frankenbike," for an ideal commuting machine (not an e-bike, but internally-geared hub, belt drive, and dyno hub so lights are always on the bike and don't need charging).

6. We'll probably add a cargo-bike to the fleet that will replace a car trips for most errands. Eliminating the cost of a second car can fund a car-share membership, multiple bikes, the occasional taxi or car-rental with lots of money left over.

The number one factor in being able go car-lite is location. City design and building codes are what influence the number of people who have access to a location that facilitates it.

I recommend taking a big-picture view of the whole situation. Perhaps getting the e-bike will combine with other factors to go help you go more car-lite (I know that wasn't the question you asked in the first place). Aside from all of that, if you and some family members get out more rides than you otherwise would have then that's a win.


Paper Chaser

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2023, 10:20:02 AM »
How would the time of an ebike commute compare to a car commute for each location? This varies a ton by location of course, but I know that I'd personally be much less likely to take the bike if it used up a bunch more of my precious time than a car.

Metalcat

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2023, 10:30:21 AM »
How would the time of an ebike commute compare to a car commute for each location? This varies a ton by location of course, but I know that I'd personally be much less likely to take the bike if it used up a bunch more of my precious time than a car.

This all depends on what you would use that precious time for otherwise. If it would be used for exercise or mental health activities, then the added time is a feature, not a limitation.

For me, despite the fact that the commute took significantly longer, I gained a lot more useful time because I was in a much better mental place when I got home. I no longer needed decompression time at home, so it actually generated more enjoyable evening time even if it reduced the actual minutes at home.

gettingtoyes

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2023, 12:40:23 PM »
Thanks all! I think I will look into it more seriously. My mother actually just bought an electric bike a few months ago and I think I will test out the commute and electric bike in general to see how I like or don't like the route. I'm very petite at 4'11 but she's 5'1 so hoping this would give me a good realistic look.

To answer some questions-

Commute time would be longer for the "eligible" hospitals to bike at simply because I leave pretty early in the morning and traffic isn't too bad so it's fairly close in 1 mile = 1 minute and they're not far off the freeway. But the mental health/fitness benefit might outweigh the time as it's pretty hard to get exercise on the shift, especially at the closest hospital which tends to be busier.

I will look into how far we drive (I keep track of mileage each month) and update insurance accordingly, good idea. I had decreased the prius one a few years ago but should probably look at the numbers. The electric car does most of the daily kid drop off/pick up since it's 24 miles each day for daycare.

I will learn how to change a tire, good life skill to have!

thanks all for the perspective. I do see the benefits of fitness/life upgrade even if it takes years to breakeven or never does. We just got back from vacation in a major city where you could use the subway everywhere and walk, so we did and we got our exercise/fitness/calories done every day without even thinking about it- was really nice.

rockeTree

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2023, 01:29:02 PM »
I ran all these numbers when I got an e-bike and the financial payoff is pretty quick if you would otherwise pay for parking and pretty slow otherwise, but still happens within what I would expect to be the life of the bike (depending on your assumptions about deferred maintenance of the car you would otherwise drive and how much bike maintenance you do yourself). Environmental payoff in carbon terms seems to be around 900-1400 avoided car miles depending on what you would otherwise drive (gas guzzling clunker on the low end, very efficient hybrid on the high end).

Fitness and mood are the great you-specific considerations!

jpdx

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2023, 02:34:41 PM »
E-bikes are a game-changer. You will find yourself replacing more and more car trips, even outside of your commute. There are a lot of new options hitting the market and you can get a decent (but not top of the line) e-bike for around $1k.

Maybe this is for a separate post, but how does a 24 hour shift work? How are you able to function?

alsoknownasDean

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2023, 09:08:37 PM »
Aside from commuting, what trips could be done by bike? Are many trips under 5-10 miles?

Sanitary Stache

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2023, 05:27:16 AM »
Grocery shopping. Hardware store. Library. Brunch. Movie theatre. Farmers market. Visit to friends houses. Board/volunteer events/meetings. Playground. Park. Synagogue. Doctors office. Downtown. Museum. Concert. Community garden. River walk. Swimming pool. Bus. Train. Airport. Ride share pickup. 

Basically wherever you want to go. Most likely you’ll adjust your going out habits to select places easy to get to by bike since it is so much more pleasant and less expensive than car. Rather than packing all your errands into one outing and worrying about traffic and filling the car with gas. You’ll check the weather and make sure you have enough bunnies to strap everything to the bike. And you’ll leave the house everyday for shorter trips that get your heart rate up a little (without sweating).

Cranky

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2023, 02:18:18 PM »
The limiting factor for us is the hassle of locking up the bikes. I’d probably run more bike errands except for all the locking up gear and the general fear that I’ll come out of the store and have no way home.

Kwill

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2023, 02:38:09 PM »
Grocery shopping. Hardware store. Library. Brunch. Movie theatre. Farmers market. Visit to friends houses. Board/volunteer events/meetings. Playground. Park. Synagogue. Doctors office. Downtown. Museum. Concert. Community garden. River walk. Swimming pool. Bus. Train. Airport. Ride share pickup. 

Basically wherever you want to go. Most likely you’ll adjust your going out habits to select places easy to get to by bike since it is so much more pleasant and less expensive than car. Rather than packing all your errands into one outing and worrying about traffic and filling the car with gas. You’ll check the weather and make sure you have enough bunnies to strap everything to the bike. And you’ll leave the house everyday for shorter trips that get your heart rate up a little (without sweating).

This is such good advice, but I can't stop laughing thinking about you strapping things to your bike with bunnies. Poor little bunnies.

mspym

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2023, 03:12:47 PM »
Grocery shopping. Hardware store. Library. Brunch. Movie theatre. Farmers market. Visit to friends houses. Board/volunteer events/meetings. Playground. Park. Synagogue. Doctors office. Downtown. Museum. Concert. Community garden. River walk. Swimming pool. Bus. Train. Airport. Ride share pickup. 

Basically wherever you want to go. Most likely you’ll adjust your going out habits to select places easy to get to by bike since it is so much more pleasant and less expensive than car. Rather than packing all your errands into one outing and worrying about traffic and filling the car with gas. You’ll check the weather and make sure you have enough bunnies to strap everything to the bike. And you’ll leave the house everyday for shorter trips that get your heart rate up a little (without sweating).

This is such good advice, but I can't stop laughing thinking about you strapping things to your bike with bunnies. Poor little bunnies.
That’s what the long ears are for?

seattlecyclone

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2023, 03:53:12 PM »
Get the bike. They aren't a very expensive purchase to start with, and every trip you take by bike instead of car will earn you some of that money back by saving fuel/wear-and-tear on your car. I use a motorized foot scooter as my default mode of transport for short one-person trips and I love the thing. It's fun, efficient, and travels almost as fast as the car speed limit on my local streets.

I will say your husband is not wrong to fear for your safety biking though. I've had plenty of cars pass me too close or honk at me for merely existing. We're still early on in the transition to good separated bike infrastructure and until we make some more progress there you're taking your life into your hands biking on many routes. That's just the reality.

Any chance you could move closer to one or more of your work sites? 12 miles each way would seem like a bit too big of an excursion for me to commit to right before and after I'm already working 24 hours straight, but if you're up for it more power to you!

BikeFanatic

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2023, 01:24:47 PM »
It is a no brained to get the Ebike! You will use it, you will enjoy it! I don’t know anyone who has tried my Ebike and not said OMG this is amazing why have I not tried this sooner?!

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2023, 02:30:16 PM »
Thanks all! I think I will look into it more seriously. My mother actually just bought an electric bike a few months ago and I think I will test out the commute and electric bike in general to see how I like or don't like the route. I'm very petite at 4'11 but she's 5'1 so hoping this would give me a good realistic look.

To answer some questions-

Commute time would be longer for the "eligible" hospitals to bike at simply because I leave pretty early in the morning and traffic isn't too bad so it's fairly close in 1 mile = 1 minute and they're not far off the freeway. But the mental health/fitness benefit might outweigh the time as it's pretty hard to get exercise on the shift, especially at the closest hospital which tends to be busier.

I will look into how far we drive (I keep track of mileage each month) and update insurance accordingly, good idea. I had decreased the prius one a few years ago but should probably look at the numbers. The electric car does most of the daily kid drop off/pick up since it's 24 miles each day for daycare.

I will learn how to change a tire, good life skill to have!

thanks all for the perspective. I do see the benefits of fitness/life upgrade even if it takes years to breakeven or never does. We just got back from vacation in a major city where you could use the subway everywhere and walk, so we did and we got our exercise/fitness/calories done every day without even thinking about it- was really nice.

I am also 4'11" so I would be very interested to hear what kind of ebike you get! I have a "petite" frame hybrid bike that I bought in 2010 and I'm not sure what the options are in ebikes.

I have been lusting after an ebike for years but it's hard to justify! My commute to work is only 3 miles. But there is a VERY steep hill and I have to get off and walk up it. (Pre-pregnancy I could still make it up the hill... On one memorable occasion, a gentleman watching from his porch called out, "Put your back into it!" as I was huffing up the hill.) I also am not sure that I can pull a bike trailer with my baby in it anymore (I used to could pull 2 toddlers, but that was ten years and 30 pounds ago) and she is almost old enough for biking to Sprouts and whatnot.

So I don't know that an ebike would make THAT many more trips bike trips. Definitely some- like today I didn't bike because I went for a run with my 12-year-old and I can't both run and bike, but I probably could with an ebike! Anyway, I'll be following along to see what you decide.

Cranky

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2023, 05:46:46 PM »
I’m 5’2” and didn’t have any trouble finding lots of e-bikes that fit me. I wanted a step through because my knee isn’t very bendy.

TreeLeaf

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2023, 07:08:28 PM »
I greatly underestimated how enjoyable ebikes are to ride before buying one. They are extremely enjoyable to ride.

There are tons of ebike options for all sizes.

I would recommend lectric ebikes, which can be found here:

https://lectricebikes.com/collections/ebikes - prices start at $799 dollars. Their xp lite bikes are great for shorter people and foldable. (recommended rider height is 4' 8" to 6' 2")

and rad power bikes here:

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/ more expensive, but very versatile cargo bikes and step thrus.

and juiced ebikes here:

https://www.juicedbikes.com/ - most expensive but also fast and long range.

There is also the diy route which is even cheaper than all of the above options.

They are very fun to ride - similar to a small dirt bike in enjoyment factor, imo.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 07:14:39 PM by TreeLeaf »

rockeTree

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2023, 11:51:25 AM »
A lot of bikes have wheels smaller than standard adult bikes, so the frames can fit small people better. My ebike takes 20" bmx wheels and tires - I am five feet tall and could lower the seat several inches more than where it is now.

I think for folks who haul kids the motor makes a lot of trips feasible that would just be too much otherwise.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2023, 01:17:23 PM »
Towne electra is a step trough and semi recumbant bike, so comfortable, feet hit the floor so good for people who like that stability. I think the electric version is 1800 at my local shop, but worth it.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2023, 02:30:27 PM »
Digression: does anyone have experience with towing a toddler using an ebike? Trailer? Rear seat?

Freedomin5

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2023, 03:12:14 AM »
Digression: does anyone have experience with towing a toddler using an ebike? Trailer? Rear seat?

I used to put my three year old in a bike seat on my ebike. It worked great. It made the back part of the ebike quite a bit heavier than the front part, so I had to be a bit more careful to make sure the bike was stable. But nothing too scary or unmanageable. On rainy days, we both wore ponchos. We tried one of those covers that go over her bike seat, but that was very stuffy and hot and made it difficult for her to breathe. The plastic window also fogged up very quickly in the rain. I biked her to preschool for two years. When she started kindergarten, we moved walking distance to school, so she biked herself.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2023, 10:31:37 AM »
Digression: does anyone have experience with towing a toddler using an ebike? Trailer? Rear seat?

I used to put my three year old in a bike seat on my ebike. It worked great. It made the back part of the ebike quite a bit heavier than the front part, so I had to be a bit more careful to make sure the bike was stable. But nothing too scary or unmanageable. On rainy days, we both wore ponchos. We tried one of those covers that go over her bike seat, but that was very stuffy and hot and made it difficult for her to breathe. The plastic window also fogged up very quickly in the rain. I biked her to preschool for two years. When she started kindergarten, we moved walking distance to school, so she biked herself.

Can you use any panniers or baskets if you are carrying a passenger, or are you limited to just backpacks at that point?

I don't actually have the dollars for an ebike at this time but I want to fantasize about tooling around on my future ebike with my little girl :-).

Kwill

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2023, 01:15:35 PM »
Can you use any panniers or baskets if you are carrying a passenger, or are you limited to just backpacks at that point?

I don't have kids but often see small children looking to one side on the bike because the parent's backpack is right up in their face. Panniers or baskets seem like they would be safer from that point of view.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2023, 03:22:43 PM »
Can you use any panniers or baskets if you are carrying a passenger, or are you limited to just backpacks at that point?

I don't have kids but often see small children looking to one side on the bike because the parent's backpack is right up in their face. Panniers or baskets seem like they would be safer from that point of view.

Funnily enough, I went out for a walk just now and saw someone with a kid (in a toddler bike seat) and panniers! But they had a longtail bike so the panniers were not right by the kid's feet. And I am maybe too small for a bike that big. I could do a front basket and rear kiddo for things like park runs but I would probably need a trailer for the grocery store... if I can make room to store one in my overcrowded garage...

I am now obsessed with the lectric bikes recommended by @TreeLeaf. I'm 4'11" so I could probably wouldn't be limited to the Lite.

Freedomin5

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2023, 04:18:10 PM »
Digression: does anyone have experience with towing a toddler using an ebike? Trailer? Rear seat?

I used to put my three year old in a bike seat on my ebike. It worked great. It made the back part of the ebike quite a bit heavier than the front part, so I had to be a bit more careful to make sure the bike was stable. But nothing too scary or unmanageable. On rainy days, we both wore ponchos. We tried one of those covers that go over her bike seat, but that was very stuffy and hot and made it difficult for her to breathe. The plastic window also fogged up very quickly in the rain. I biked her to preschool for two years. When she started kindergarten, we moved walking distance to school, so she biked herself.

Can you use any panniers or baskets if you are carrying a passenger, or are you limited to just backpacks at that point?

I don't actually have the dollars for an ebike at this time but I want to fantasize about tooling around on my future ebike with my little girl :-).

No panniers or baskets. I had one that you could attach to your handlebars, and I used a backpack. I remember asking DD if the backpack was bothering her, but she said no. She liked looking sideways because she liked looking at the scenery. I think if I had really wanted I could’ve installed panniers that sit behind DD’s feet, but that would’ve made the back part of the bike really really heavy and unbalanced.

Chaplin

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2023, 08:21:38 PM »
They'll be more expensive, but I suggest trying to get something with a Bosch or Shimano drive system. I work at a bike shop now and most of the bikes without those drive systems are essentially unserviceable if there's an electrical problem. This is not like the car market where even the cheapest car is highly functional and serviceable - it's an almost completely unregulated market which means that the joy of low price can quickly turn into the frustration of low quality.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2023, 10:53:08 AM »
They'll be more expensive, but I suggest trying to get something with a Bosch or Shimano drive system. I work at a bike shop now and most of the bikes without those drive systems are essentially unserviceable if there's an electrical problem. This is not like the car market where even the cheapest car is highly functional and serviceable - it's an almost completely unregulated market which means that the joy of low price can quickly turn into the frustration of low quality.

Hmmm, that's an interesting consideration. I haven't seen ANY in that category that have a height limit below 4'11". I mean, I am 4'11" but I suspect I would more comfy if the bottom height was 4'8" or 4'10" than if I am literally the shortest. Actually I think I might be 4'10.5". The Rad brand has Shimano drives but they start at 4'11". I'll make sure to ask about ability to repair!

GuitarStv

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2023, 11:24:11 AM »
As far as repairs...I do have a kit but I'll be honest, I've never changed a tire. I do watch the ground pretty carefully when riding but I also realize it's just dumb luck it hasn't happened when I'm out far away. I think my backup plan if it happened was to watch a youtube video to do it with my kit but that's pretty dumb and I should know how to do it.

Watching the ground has nothing to do with it.  Eventually you'll hit a nail, sharp rock, bit of broken bottle, piece of wire, whatever.  Heavy commuter type tires will reduce your risk, but it'll happen sooner or later.
 Cycling around city streets I find that flats are more common than quiet country roads on long rides.  If you're planning on making cycling a thing you do regularly, you should practice removing both the front and rear wheels from your bike, taking the tire off the rim, pulling the tube out, and replacing everything.  Do this at least once a year so you don't forget.  You do not want to be trying to learn how to do it with freezing hands in the rain/snow while watching a little tiny youtube video.

Chaplin

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2023, 11:37:56 AM »
As far as repairs...I do have a kit but I'll be honest, I've never changed a tire. I do watch the ground pretty carefully when riding but I also realize it's just dumb luck it hasn't happened when I'm out far away. I think my backup plan if it happened was to watch a youtube video to do it with my kit but that's pretty dumb and I should know how to do it.

Watching the ground has nothing to do with it.  Eventually you'll hit a nail, sharp rock, bit of broken bottle, piece of wire, whatever.  Heavy commuter type tires will reduce your risk, but it'll happen sooner or later.
 Cycling around city streets I find that flats are more common than quiet country roads on long rides.  If you're planning on making cycling a thing you do regularly, you should practice removing both the front and rear wheels from your bike, taking the tire off the rim, pulling the tube out, and replacing everything.  Do this at least once a year so you don't forget.  You do not want to be trying to learn how to do it with freezing hands in the rain/snow while watching a little tiny youtube video.

Definitely all of the above! Additionally, and especially with e-bikes, watch your tire pressure. Most e-bikes I see around have under-inflated tires because it's easy to not notice it. A pot-hole or bump is all it takes to give you a flat if your tires are too low.

For hub-drive bikes, a sausage tube is the best invention ever roadside flat repairs - you don't have to remove the wheel, just pop the bead off of one side. You'll need a knife to remove the old tube though.



They'll be more expensive, but I suggest trying to get something with a Bosch or Shimano drive system. I work at a bike shop now and most of the bikes without those drive systems are essentially unserviceable if there's an electrical problem. This is not like the car market where even the cheapest car is highly functional and serviceable - it's an almost completely unregulated market which means that the joy of low price can quickly turn into the frustration of low quality.

Hmmm, that's an interesting consideration. I haven't seen ANY in that category that have a height limit below 4'11". I mean, I am 4'11" but I suspect I would more comfy if the bottom height was 4'8" or 4'10" than if I am literally the shortest. Actually I think I might be 4'10.5". The Rad brand has Shimano drives but they start at 4'11". I'll make sure to ask about ability to repair!

Tern makes bikes that fit very short people (and are super adjustable to a short/tall couple can both use them).

I haven't seen Rad use Shimano drives - I'll have to check. I would avoid Rad if possible though, although they are far from the worst.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2023, 11:45:07 AM by Chaplin »

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2023, 11:56:10 AM »


Tern makes bikes that fit very short people (and are super adjustable to a short/tall couple can both use them).

I haven't seen Rad use Shimano drives - I'll have to check. I would avoid Rad if possible though, although they are far from the worst.

I'm sure they're great, but I don't have four to six thousand dollars. I'm not just being cheap- it would literally take my emergency fund to an uncomfortable level. I have like two thousand, max, all in with accessories and less is better. If I qualify for Denver's rebate, that is three or five hundred (the largest amount is for anything classified as a cargo bike).

(Also worth noting that one of my OMD friends has a Tern and doesn't think it would actually fit me, but short people do vary in their shapes.)

Would you advise that I not buy an ebike and continue to just take my car* if I can't spend that much? Serious question!

*Or occasionally my bike, but there are so many days when I can't take my bike. I can't bike if I have worked out or run that day, if it's windy, if I need to bring the baby, if I have an early meeting, etc.

Chaplin

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2023, 12:07:53 PM »


Tern makes bikes that fit very short people (and are super adjustable to a short/tall couple can both use them).

I haven't seen Rad use Shimano drives - I'll have to check. I would avoid Rad if possible though, although they are far from the worst.

I'm sure they're great, but I don't have four to six thousand dollars. I'm not just being cheap- it would literally take my emergency fund to an uncomfortable level. I have like two thousand, max, all in with accessories and less is better. If I qualify for Denver's rebate, that is three or five hundred (the largest amount is for anything classified as a cargo bike).

(Also worth noting that one of my OMD friends has a Tern and doesn't think it would actually fit me, but short people do vary in their shapes.)

Would you advise that I not buy an ebike and continue to just take my car* if I can't spend that much? Serious question!

*Or occasionally my bike, but there are so many days when I can't take my bike. I can't bike if I have worked out or run that day, if it's windy, if I need to bring the baby, if I have an early meeting, etc.

No, I would still get the bike that fits the budget and hopefully qualifies for the incentive. Let it start to change your routine sometimes and show you the possibilities. The baby will grow, work will change, your finances will change, hopefully Denver's infrastructure will change, and in two, three, or five years your needs will be different and you might want to upgrade - and you'll have a big base of experience to work from.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2023, 04:28:56 PM »
Thanks, @Chaplin, that's really helpful perspective!

Sanitary Stache

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2023, 07:30:07 AM »
I agree. @Chaplin you are right.

We got Rad bikes. And I am figuring out exactly what I care about with the e-bikes. When we are ready for our next bikes in three or five years we will have little difficulty buying a more expensive option that is what we have learned we want.

The rad frame is also burly, so I envision tinkering and modifying with new motor/batteries/tires/brakes/etc along the way. I have already changed tires and brakes once. I am about to buy a new chain.

Cranky

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2023, 07:08:23 PM »
Honestly, I think you need to go to a bike shop and try some out. I could be quite a bit shorter than I am and still pedal along on my bike just fine.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2023, 07:34:50 PM »
Honestly, I think you need to go to a bike shop and try some out. I could be quite a bit shorter than I am and still pedal along on my bike just fine.

We're going tomorrow! I wonder what @gettingtoyes is looking at!

turketron

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2023, 09:19:50 AM »
We're going tomorrow! I wonder what @gettingtoyes is looking at!

Please report back with what you find! Currently looking for a new ebike for my wife who's just under 5'. We're hoping to test ride some Aventons this weekend if our shop has them in stock, they have a couple step-through frames that say they go down to 4'11":

https://www.aventon.com/products/pace500-3-step-through-ebike?variant=42381879181507
https://www.aventon.com/products/soltera-step-through-ebike?variant=41308843147459

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2023, 11:09:44 AM »
We're going tomorrow! I wonder what @gettingtoyes is looking at!

Please report back with what you find! Currently looking for a new ebike for my wife who's just under 5'. We're hoping to test ride some Aventons this weekend if our shop has them in stock, they have a couple step-through frames that say they go down to 4'11":

https://www.aventon.com/products/pace500-3-step-through-ebike?variant=42381879181507
https://www.aventon.com/products/soltera-step-through-ebike?variant=41308843147459

Those look really cool! I think I want foldable, though, so I am looking at lectric to start with and then Rad would be second. I was trapped at Firestone for 2 hours yesterday with a 9 month old baby who only wanted to crawl on the dirty floor and get in trouble and I thought, if I had an ebike I could have folded it up and put it in the trunk and just zipped on back home with baby and come back when the car was ready!

Cranky

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2023, 01:04:33 PM »
Unfortunately I think you aren’t supposed be bike with a baby under 12 months? People do, of course.

turketron

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #47 on: May 11, 2023, 01:20:18 PM »
Our doc gave us the go-ahead with our kid once they were able to hold their head up when strapped into the trailer, which was after our 9-month checkup.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2023, 03:24:27 PM »
We're going tomorrow! I wonder what @gettingtoyes is looking at!

Please report back with what you find! Currently looking for a new ebike for my wife who's just under 5'. We're hoping to test ride some Aventons this weekend if our shop has them in stock, they have a couple step-through frames that say they go down to 4'11":

https://www.aventon.com/products/pace500-3-step-through-ebike?variant=42381879181507
https://www.aventon.com/products/soltera-step-through-ebike?variant=41308843147459

@turketron , were you able to try these out?

I finally was able to try the lectric bikes today. While I would really like the ability to carry a passenger instead of using a trailer, the lectric XP 3.0 was just too heavy (63lbs) for me and the riding geometry was also a bit off. It says 4'10" and up and I am that tall I think, but it just wasn't right. I was super comfortable on the XP Lite.

I'm toying with the idea of going to try out a Tern Quick Haul just to see what it's like BUT- I don't know if I would even be able to sit on it, aside from it being out of my price range. The website says it goes down to 4'9" but only if you use a shorter seat post, and if the shop doesn't have one on hand... Tern is the only brand I've seen so far (aside from the lectric that I already tried) where I might be able to have a passenger.

OTOH... questioning the safety of having a passenger on an ebike when I am just not all that strong or confident a rider.

turketron

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Re: Electric bike- worth it if need to keep 2 cars?
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2023, 07:59:35 AM »
@turketron , were you able to try these out?

We did, and took home the Pace 350.3, it's the same frame as the 500.3 that I had linked, but with a slightly less powerful (and therefore slightly cheaper) motor. She actually juuuuust fits on the "Large" size frame with the seat at its absolute lowest setting and she found it pretty comfortable to ride so we ended up taking that one home; the smaller frame was also on backorder and so it would have been a few weeks to a month to get one of those. I'd recommend test riding one of those if you can, I'm pretty sure that the smaller frame would fit someone your height. 

According to the spec sheet it's 49 pounds but it feels very light and well-balanced to ride. We've historically put our kid in a trailer but haven't tried it on this bike yet, we also recently got a separate front-loader cargo bike so that's the kid's main ride these days.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!