Author Topic: efficient car choice  (Read 13238 times)

detailoriented

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efficient car choice
« on: April 10, 2016, 06:29:54 PM »
Greetings all,

I have two questions at the bottom.  I am starting with the background

My beloved 2000 corolla with 191k is suffering from a severe rust rot out on the rear subframe to the point that it is now a safety risk and will not pass inspection(plus I do not feel it is safe to drive).  In addition it also needs new rear struts which I can change myself.  Lastly it has two engine codes that I have debugged to the limit of my skills and need to call in professional help.  Rolled up, using my labor for the struts, the cost to get this running and passing inspection is estimated as follows:

rear subframe: $750-$2000 depending on how many other rusted/seize parts need to be replaced in the process.  My guess looking the the parts would be $1400. 
struts: $150 (parts and tools only, my labor is 0)
debug the check engine issues: $100 diagnose
fix check engine light: ?  no real guess yet

total $1650 +check engine fix

This is a car I have taken care of with a mix of my work and auto repair houses since it was a certified pre-owned in 2003, it owes me nothing.  The engine is a great shape for the age.  Examining the car I think the rusting on the fuel lines will be my next problem within 2 years.

Given this is already looking to exceed the KBB value of the card I decided to explore getting a replacement car for my commutes.   My intent was to find something under $8k that I could get 10 years out of while running ~13k miles per year.  I unfortunately did not find the vehicle... yet.   

I am not done looking but here are the best contenders I have so far, they are all corollas but that was only because they were the best deals I found online.  I was also looking at civics, accents, matrix, leaf, prius

2012 corolla LE 99kmiles $9k
2014 corolla LE 19kmiles $14k
2012 corolla LE 34kmiles $13k

The top one looks best and while I will continue shopping/researching I wanted to get a feel from the forum.

questions:
1) What are your thoughts on my car options so far and where else should I look?  (I would prefer to repair my current car before I try private sales)

2) This question is for mustachians from areas with snow and lots of road salting.  My current car is ailing from rust.  Have most of your cars hit end of life by rust or wearing out?

Thank you,

DO






Miss Piggy

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2016, 06:43:46 PM »
If you are considering a Leaf or Prius, you may also want to consider a Ford C-Max. (Disclaimer: I own one, the Energi plug-in hybrid variety. It's the nicest car I've ever owned, by far. It gets incredible gas mileage. And used ones are getting cheaper by the minute. In fact, owners are upset about how much the KBB values have gone down. No fault of the car, as far as I know.)

tobitonic

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2016, 06:45:26 PM »
I wouldn't go newer (or older) than '10 with a Corolla; they have ESC and side airbags from then on, which are huge safety boosts. Going newer means you pay more than you have to; the newer ones aren't more reliable than the older ones. Going older means you'll skip out on critical safety features to save a few hundred dollars...not worth it in my books. You'll be able to get 130k out of pretty much any Civic, Corolla, Fit, Yaris, or Prius, so in your shoes, I'd just look for the one with the fewest miles within my budget that had the safety features I felt were important. If rust is a big concern, your biggest ally will either by a car wash or a hose to wash out the underside during the winter months. You could also buy a car from a non-salt state if you want to be sure that the body has aged more slowly.

aceyou

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2016, 07:10:17 PM »
I have no experience with Leaf's, but my wife and I both have a Prius.  If you go Prius, you don't need to go that new.  We bought used 2007 and 2008's with about 160k miles, and they both run like they are brand new.  Great cars, we paid 5200 for the 07 and 6200 for the 08.  They both look brand new still, the body style is almost identical to the current model, and they have zero dents/rust. 

This is my favorite price range to buy in, because in 8 years the car will still be worth 2 thousand when you sell.  You basically get a great car for $45/month...I can handle that. 

CindyBS

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2016, 07:50:12 PM »
FWIW, I live in an area with lots of snow/salt.  I owned a '99 Civic that I bought new and sold in 2013.  I had a lot of problems with rust holes on the exhaust system and having to have sections of the system replaced.  I ultimately sold it b/c the repairs it needed (which involved the gas tank) cost more than the car was worth.  It was a shame too, b/c there was only 100K miles on it.

We currently have a 2010 Civic and haven't had rust or exhaust issues, so it may just be that model.

I used to own a Geo Prizm, which was basically a Corolla, and have rented Corollas on vacation.   I am short and prefer the Corolla just from the Ergonomic Aspects and being able to reach the pedals without the steering wheel in my lap.   Something to think about if your or your partner is short . . .

csprof

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2016, 10:18:27 PM »
If you are considering a Leaf or Prius, you may also want to consider a Ford C-Max. (Disclaimer: I own one, the Energi plug-in hybrid variety. It's the nicest car I've ever owned, by far. It gets incredible gas mileage. And used ones are getting cheaper by the minute. In fact, owners are upset about how much the KBB values have gone down. No fault of the car, as far as I know.)

Not to hijack the thread, but -- (ok, I'm hijacking shamelessly) -- how would the C-max do for two tall adults + two carseats in back?

obstinate

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2016, 11:03:26 PM »
All seem reasonable. The '12 is similar to the decision I made w/ my '08 Prius in terms of miles and price.

chemistk

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2016, 06:18:26 AM »

questions:
1) What are your thoughts on my car options so far and where else should I look?  (I would prefer to repair my current car before I try private sales)

2) This question is for mustachians from areas with snow and lots of road salting.  My current car is ailing from rust.  Have most of your cars hit end of life by rust or wearing out?



1 - Don't worry about repairing your car. According to KBB.com (assuming you have the mid-level trim, standard features), your car in its current condition is worth ~$1,500. You will not recoup your investment to get it running again. Most people tend to agree that unless you have an emotional attachment to a car, if the repair is more than the value, it's time to dump the thing.

You'll want to junk it. You'll get a few hundred and they'll tow it away at no cost to you.

After that, it's really what suits your needs - a leaf is nice but the range it limited. If you want that kind of range and lifespan, your best option is a used Prius. Aim for something under 125k miles - you'll end up with about 250k after the 10 years is up. Most don't have much that needs replacing. Big bonus if you can find one that's had the battery replaced already.

2 - I've lived my whole life in the rust belt (Metro Detroit, Central PA). There are 3 things you can do to combat rust: 1) Go to a U-Wash car wash after big storms where a lot of salt gets used. Rinse off your car's underside. You'll spend no more than $3/per wash and you'll save yourself a lot of hassle. 2) If you can, park in a garage/dry area. Rust is accelerated by wet conditions, so the drier you can keep your car, the better. 3) When you do any maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, etc.), spray a little WD-40 on all exposed bolts and joints.


retiringearly

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2016, 07:46:47 AM »
I live in Chicago, I have never had a problem with rust but the longest I have kept a car was 13.5 years and 163K miles.  No rust anywhere on the car.

One thing that I think does help is doing an undercarriage flush when going through a car wash in winter.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2016, 07:50:35 AM »
Is the cargo area of the C-Max Energi annoying because of the battery? It kinda looks like it has two levels.

Miss Piggy

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2016, 10:45:25 AM »
If you are considering a Leaf or Prius, you may also want to consider a Ford C-Max. (Disclaimer: I own one, the Energi plug-in hybrid variety. It's the nicest car I've ever owned, by far. It gets incredible gas mileage. And used ones are getting cheaper by the minute. In fact, owners are upset about how much the KBB values have gone down. No fault of the car, as far as I know.)

Not to hijack the thread, but -- (ok, I'm hijacking shamelessly) -- how would the C-max do for two tall adults + two carseats in back?

It would be fantastic. It has a high roof and plenty of backseat space. That said...how tall are you? If you're very tall, well, I would suggest going to a dealer to sit in one. To me, the headroom is as much as an SUV, but I'm 5'6" on a good day. It's a big small car, if that makes sense.

Miss Piggy

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2016, 10:49:43 AM »
Is the cargo area of the C-Max Energi annoying because of the battery? It kinda looks like it has two levels.

It's...different. If you fold the backseats down, then yes, there are two levels. The folded backseats are (6 to 8 inches?) lower than the hatch portion. Yes, that battery takes up some space. I guess I'm used to it now. I came from a PT Cruiser, which I basically treated like a pickup truck when I needed to haul stuff. The C-Max Energi can do the same thing, but the two levels make it a bit different.

I'll take it, though. That battery means I only have to fill up with gas 3 or 4 times a year. That, to me, is a beautiful thing!

detailoriented

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2016, 12:35:53 PM »
Unfortunately a search in my area shows that the only prius within 100miles below $7k is a 2005.  I do see a 2010 with 76kmiles for $10k.

Any thoughts on 2010 prius with 76k miles vs 2012 Corolla with 99k miles?

Quote
I have no experience with Leaf's, but my wife and I both have a Prius.  If you go Prius, you don't need to go that new.  We bought used 2007 and 2008's with about 160k miles, and they both run like they are brand new.  Great cars, we paid 5200 for the 07 and 6200 for the 08.  They both look brand new still, the body style is almost identical to the current model, and they have zero dents/rust.
Do you live in a place that salts the roads?

Quote
All seem reasonable. The '12 is similar to the decision I made w/ my '08 Prius in terms of miles and price.
Does this mean that you selected an '08 prius with higher miles vs a lower miles prius?

DO

Jeremy E.

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 01:26:16 PM »
First off, you should get an OBD2 sensor, they can be had for relatively cheap, $20-$80 depending on what you want. You should buy one and lookup the codes to see what the other issues are for your car and go from there, maybe it will be cost effective to repair.

If you find out it is not cost effective to repair it, I'd probably aim for a 2010 Nissan Versa, alternatively you could go for a Nissan Leaf if you have a charging location, but you will probably have to replace the batteries in that 10 year window.
Some other options that may fit your criteria,

2011 Kia Forte
2010 Pontiac Vibe
2010 Toyota Matrix
2006 Scion XA
2006 Toyota Corolla
2010 Chevy Aveo
2010 Toyota Yaris
2010 Honda Fit
2012 Mazda 3 (probably closer to $10,000, $12,000 if you want a hatchback, but my favorite option and what I may upgrade to eventually)

detailoriented

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 01:55:17 PM »
Quote
First off, you should get an OBD2 sensor, they can be had for relatively cheap, $20-$80 depending on what you want. You should buy one and lookup the codes to see what the other issues are for your car and go from there, maybe it will be cost effective to repair.
My local parts store lets me borrow their reader for free, I have been doing that for years.  I did read the codes and worked to resolve them in any of the easy potential solutions I could find online before bringing the car in for inspection.  This is what I meant in my original post by "debugging to the limit of my skill level".

I appreciate the extra candidates to consider. 

DO

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 03:12:34 PM »
I had to ditch by 2003 hatch back due to rust and it only had 150K (in Canada so that is kilometers) and was  only 11 years old.  We couldn't get it safetied due to the rust in the floor, struts and wheel wells.  Hubby gets his car sprayed with oil every fall and it is in amazing shape.  I should have done the same with the Mazda but thought the rust coating at purchase was adequate. Hubbies car is a 2004 Acura and since he only drives 5 kilometers to work and back in the winter we don't worry about mileage too much.  He bought it three years old with super low mileage, owned by a senior that went South for the winter. 
We have our eyes open for a used car that one of the old ladies in our neighbourhood no longer wants.  They lease a car for four years, won't go out if the roads aren't clear and follow the maintenance booklet at the dealers shop.  Totally cared for and super clean. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 07:57:52 PM »
Note that 2010 Honda Fits, mentioned above, may not have ESC. Might as well get a car with it.

(Mine doesn't seem to, which is why I looked online at C-Max Energis, but its best safety feature is that we hardly drive.)

edited solely for grammar
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 08:32:55 AM by ShoulderThingThatGoesUp »

aceyou

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 08:08:32 PM »
Unfortunately a search in my area shows that the only prius within 100miles below $7k is a 2005.  I do see a 2010 with 76kmiles for $10k.

Any thoughts on 2010 prius with 76k miles vs 2012 Corolla with 99k miles?

Quote
I have no experience with Leaf's, but my wife and I both have a Prius.  If you go Prius, you don't need to go that new.  We bought used 2007 and 2008's with about 160k miles, and they both run like they are brand new.  Great cars, we paid 5200 for the 07 and 6200 for the 08.  They both look brand new still, the body style is almost identical to the current model, and they have zero dents/rust.
Do you live in a place that salts the roads?

Quote
All seem reasonable. The '12 is similar to the decision I made w/ my '08 Prius in terms of miles and price.
Does this mean that you selected an '08 prius with higher miles vs a lower miles prius?

DO

I live in Michigan.  Previous owner was a meticulous wealthy guy who bought it new in 07, always parked in a garage, and likely had it washed any time there was a hint of salt on it.  When I bought it he gave me a two inch thick file with every record or any kind of service ever.  It looked like my wife's prius was similarly well taken care of.  Ours may have been outliers, but they are out there.

detailoriented

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2016, 06:45:48 AM »
Thank you everyone for your input on this. 

To Prius owners:
When doing a pre-inspection (before purchasing) a prius should this be done at a Toyota dealership or would a standard autoshop suffice?

Everyone:
It is sad to say that private sales scare me a little.  A long time ago my wife's father purchased her first car from a private sale, had it inspected and then less than 2 months later the transmission self destructed(automatic not the wife's shifting skills).  The seller shrugged and said "not my problem".  This statement is true for both a private sale and an auto sales place but I feel that the auto sales place has a reputation at stake that would keep them involved.  I did do one private purchase myself but that was from a co-worker so again they had reason to not sell me a hunk of scrap as it would impact their employment.

It seems I am being overly protective by only doing private sales with someone with whom I have continued contact but if I am running any car I buy into the ground the depreciation is not a factor and the math I am seeing off craigslist does not indicate a lot of savings using private sales in miles/$ or $/year unless I plan to resell before the car dies(I am assuming any car I am looking for will live to 15 years hold and 200kmiles).  If the car exceeds expectations the private sales start to pull ahead but betting on that seems like similar odds to getting a crappy private sales scenario. 

Please convince me of the merits of private sales

DO
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 07:36:24 AM by detailoriented »

Jeremy E.

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2016, 07:43:24 AM »
Note that 2010 Honda Fits, mentioned above, may not have ESC. Might as well get a car with it.

(Mine doesn't seem to, which is why I looked online at C-Max Energis, but it's best safety feature is that we hardly drive.)
I had to look up ESC, Electronic speed control? Seems it's only necessary in electric cars, Honda Fit has an internal combustion engine

Jeremy E.

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2016, 07:49:32 AM »
Thank you everyone for your input on this. 

To Prius owners:
When doing a pre-inspection (before purchasing) a prius should this be done at a Toyota dealership or would a standard autoshop suffice?

Everyone:
It is sad to say that private sales scare me a little.  A long time ago my wife's father purchased her first car from a private sale, had it inspected and then less than 2 months later the transmission self destructed(automatic not the wife's shifting skills).  The seller shrugged and said "not my problem".  This statement is true for both a private sale and an auto sales place but I feel that the auto sales place has a reputation at stake that would keep them involved.  I did do one private purchase myself but that was from a co-worker so again they had reason to not sell me a hunk of scrap as it would impact their employment.

It seems I am being overly protective by only doing private sales with someone with whom I have continued contact but if I am running any car I buy into the ground the depreciation is not a factor and the math I am seeing off craigslist does not indicate a lot of savings using private sales in miles/$ or $/year unless I plan to resell before the car dies(I am assuming any car I am looking for will live to 15 years hold and 200kmiles).  If the car exceeds expectations the private sales start to pull ahead but betting on that seems like similar odds to getting a crappy private sales scenario. 

Please convince me of the merits of private sales

DO
There is risk buying from a private owner, but a new transmission is maybe $3,000, you will probably save $1,500 from buying from a private owner, the chance of you losing a transmission, especially on a car with low mile, is very low, much less than 50%. I don't know much about hybrids, but if I were going to buy a Prius I'd have it inspected at a Toyota dealership, as their mechanics are probably more familiar with the Prius and hybrids.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2016, 07:53:13 AM »
Note that 2010 Honda Fits, mentioned above, may not have ESC. Might as well get a car with it.

(Mine doesn't seem to, which is why I looked online at C-Max Energis, but it's best safety feature is that we hardly drive.)
I had to look up ESC, Electronic speed control? Seems it's only necessary in electric cars, Honda Fit has an internal combustion engine

Electronic stability control. I am well aware that the Honda Fit has an ICE.

neo von retorch

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2016, 07:59:17 AM »
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2008/09/honda-and-esc-safety-for-everyone/index.htm

It's half true - they started to put ESC on Fits in 2009, but only on Sport w/ Navigation models, which isn't necessarily the version someone who's being meticulous about finding a good deal would end up getting :)

researcher1

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 10:39:30 AM »
I am not done looking but here are the best contenders I have so far, they are all corollas but that was only because they were the best deals I found online.

2012 corolla LE 99kmiles $9k
2014 corolla LE 19kmiles $14k
2012 corolla LE 34kmiles $13k

This is a very simple and straightforward choice.  Go with the 2014 model.  Here's why...

You got 191K miles on your current car, which sounds like a dangerous rust bucket.  Therefore, let's assume you will only put $175K miles on your next car.  Now just do some simple math:

$9K - 76,000 usable miles - 11.8 cents/mile
$14K - 156,000 usable miles - 9.0 cents/mile
$13K - 141,000 usable miles - 9.2 cents/mile

The most expensive car is actually the best deal when you factor in how much life is left in it. 
In addition, the newest car has many other advantages for most of the ownership period...
 - Longer period with warranty coverage
 - Lower maintenance/repair costs (the 'earliest' miles are the cheapest)
 - Less wear & tear (dents/scratches/stains/ect)
 - Potential for more safety/convenience features

Lastly, there is the "hassle" factor of churning through cars more frequently.  You will have to buy a car twice as frequently if you go with the $9K car (with 76K miles left) vs. the $14K car (with 156K miles left):
 - The annoyance of selling your current used car
 - Searching for and procuring a new used car
 - The administrative effort of these transactions (tags/title/registration/insurance transfers)

detailoriented

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 02:21:12 PM »
I am not done looking but here are the best contenders I have so far, they are all corollas but that was only because they were the best deals I found online.

2012 corolla LE 99kmiles $9k
2014 corolla LE 19kmiles $14k
2012 corolla LE 34kmiles $13k

This is a very simple and straightforward choice.  Go with the 2014 model.  Here's why...

You got 191K miles on your current car, which sounds like a dangerous rust bucket.  Therefore, let's assume you will only put $175K miles on your next car.  Now just do some simple math:

$9K - 76,000 usable miles - 11.8 cents/mile
$14K - 156,000 usable miles - 9.0 cents/mile
$13K - 141,000 usable miles - 9.2 cents/mile

The most expensive car is actually the best deal when you factor in how much life is left in it. 
In addition, the newest car has many other advantages for most of the ownership period...
 - Longer period with warranty coverage
 - Lower maintenance/repair costs (the 'earliest' miles are the cheapest)
 - Less wear & tear (dents/scratches/stains/ect)
 - Potential for more safety/convenience features

Lastly, there is the "hassle" factor of churning through cars more frequently.  You will have to buy a car twice as frequently if you go with the $9K car (with 76K miles left) vs. the $14K car (with 156K miles left):
 - The annoyance of selling your current used car
 - Searching for and procuring a new used car
 - The administrative effort of these transactions (tags/title/registration/insurance transfers)

researcher1 I am glad you brought this up.  This is how I have evaluated cars in the past.  However given my experience with my last car (yes this is based off one data point) that died from rust and not engine failure I have started to rethink things.  I will toss this out there and see how long it can stand up before being dismantled.

When only considering high reliability vehicles like corolla, civic, accent, etc. you can expect a rather large amount of miles out of them.  So many miles that when you live in a snow/salt area the car has a very high potential of being killed off by age rather than miles.  I am not dismissing the cents/mile metric, I am however suggesting that the $/year metric might also be a factor worth considering.

Any thoughts?  The biggest weakness I see is a quality of life factor.  Example: Was the car kept in a garage?

Using the data above assuming a 15 year life span

Car 1 - 2012 - 99kmiles - 11 usable years - $9k - $818/year - 11.8 cents/mile
Car 2 - 2014 - 19kmiles - 13 usable years - $14k - $1076/year - 9.0 cents/mile
Car 3 - 2012 - 34kmiles - 11 usable years - $13k - $1182/year - 9.2 cents/mile

If this is a valid metric then the tailoring of a car purchase becomes finding the best value in both metric that project a similar amount of overall life remaining in the vehicle. 

DO
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 02:27:56 PM by detailoriented »

Jeremy E.

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 02:52:19 PM »
Note that 2010 Honda Fits, mentioned above, may not have ESC. Might as well get a car with it.

(Mine doesn't seem to, which is why I looked online at C-Max Energis, but it's best safety feature is that we hardly drive.)
I had to look up ESC, Electronic speed control? Seems it's only necessary in electric cars, Honda Fit has an internal combustion engine

Electronic stability control. I am well aware that the Honda Fit has an ICE.
I'll be honest, when I'm deciding on a car, I consider a lot of things, but I honestly wouldn't care if my car has that, regardless of whether or not I had my family in the car or whatever. There's probably a one in a million chance I'd regret my decision, but I prefer to base my decision on things like price, miles, reliability, etc.

tobitonic

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2016, 03:58:51 PM »
^ Statistically, it's like choosing to buy a car that doesn't have seat belts (that's how much it reduces your risk of death in a single vehicle crash scenario...50%).

Fortunately, the government intervened with seat belts starting in 1968 and it's no longer possible to buy cars without them, and they intervened with ESC in 2012.

Many manufacturers added ESC before 2012, but you have to search for them. I bought both of our family vehicles (an '06 and '07) specifically because they came with ESC and side airbags.

Reynolds531

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2016, 11:06:34 AM »
Oil spray whatever you buy every other year.

I'd stay away from most domestics as much as I hate to say that.

detailoriented

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2016, 08:55:03 PM »
The more I analyze the more the used prius is looking good.  Can any Prius owners address the most common complaints I am seeing about it being noisy and also that is wears our tires fast.  Please include the year of the prius.

Thank you,

DO

Miss Piggy

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2016, 07:57:58 AM »
I don't own a Prius, so I can't directly address your questions, but on another thread, someone mentioned that the brakes are too sensitive. Keep in mind that sensitive brakes are part of regenerative braking. So don't be too surprised (or put off) by the sensitivity of brakes in a hybrid vehicle.

(I can't imagine why a particular car model would "wear out tires fast."  Maybe the standard tires that came on a specific year Prius were crappy?)

alsoknownasDean

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2016, 08:07:53 AM »
Yeah I'd say that it's probably time to replace it.

No love for the Focus or Cruze? Presumably they'll be slightly cheaper than the Corolla and Civic, but should still be reliable.

As for the three cars you've mentioned, you probably drive too much to make the 99K 2012 worthwhile (for someone that only does 5000 miles a year, something like that would be ideal).

Any chance of getting any of those for cheaper? Surely the 2012 with 34K would be worth considering were it priced closer to $11K. Worth a shot :)

I don't own a Prius, so I can't directly address your questions, but on another thread, someone mentioned that the brakes are too sensitive. Keep in mind that sensitive brakes are part of regenerative braking. So don't be too surprised (or put off) by the sensitivity of brakes in a hybrid vehicle.

(I can't imagine why a particular car model would "wear out tires fast."  Maybe the standard tires that came on a specific year Prius were crappy?)

Poor suspension design, maybe?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 08:14:13 AM by alsoknownasDean »

obstinate

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2016, 02:46:26 PM »
The more I analyze the more the used prius is looking good.  Can any Prius owners address the most common complaints I am seeing about it being noisy and also that is wears our tires fast.  Please include the year of the prius.

Thank you,

DO
I have never heard of this wearing out tires fast complaint. Seems like probably a combination of user error and natural variance in when tires need to be replaced. It's not a particularly noisy car for its price, but the engine does have a rather unpleasant sound (which is true of many small cars). It's not going to sound like a muscle car, if that is what you're asking.

MattC

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2016, 05:53:44 PM »
In general, you should calculate automotive cost of ownership by adding up six numbers; annualized over how long you anticipate owning the car, or 5 years, whichever is shorter.  For a 5 year calculation the numbers are:
Depreciation - check the purchase price of the car (plus fees, taxes, etc) minus the kbb value of the same car 5 years older and with 5 more years of your miles per year, and annualize. 
Insurance - Note that if you're driving around an expensive vehicle that you want collision on, that may drive your premiums up a lot.
Opportunity cost (or financing cost) - Take the average value of the car over the five years (average the purchase price with the 5 year old value) and multiply that by what you average on your investments.  Alternately, if you were financing, you would multiply this by your interest rate. 
Mortality cost - For the sake of argument, lets say your life (and the life of each of your passengers) is worth $8,000,000.  Or to put it another way, you'd hypothetically be willing to pay $80,000 to reduce your likelihood of dying in the next year by 1% (say from 2% to 1%).  Go to the IIHS driver death rates page and figure out the driver mortality rates for your prospective vehicle (given in driver fatalities per million vehicle years).  Assume passenger mortality is the same as driver mortality.  Multiply your average number of passengers * the table mortality rate * your personal value (8 million) divided by 1 million vehicle years.  For example if you average 1.2 passengers in an 07-08 Honda Fit, the mortality cost ends up being 1.2*63*8million/1million = $605.  If you went for a safer vehicle, you could reduce that mortality cost.  Note that numbers for different vehicles aren't exactly apples to apples; i.e. I suspect the people who purchase Kia rios just aren't as safe drivers as those who buy Acura TSX's, and some vehicles have zeros, meaning no drivers happened to die in them; indicating there is some statistical noise here.  But if you feel like you're an average driver of whatever vehicle you're considering, these are the best numbers we're going to get for comparing the apples and oranges of safety and cost. 
Repair and maintenance - How much will the scheduled maintenance cost you, plus tires, unexpected repairs, etc.  Truedelta and edmunds have some data that can be helpful in predicting this.
Gas - What do you think the average price of gas will be over the next five years * your miles per year/mpg.

If you figure all this stuff out for each car you're thinking about getting (do a spreadsheet) you can figure out what car is most efficient for you.  In general, the cars $9k+ cars you are looking at are probably too expensive to be optimal, but obviously they're not horrible.  $5k priuses do really well, actually - a lot of the post '04's even have ESC.  Depreciation is low; gas is low, ESC keeps you safe, they're cheap to fix. 

Here's why you should buy from a private party selling his or her own car:  For $100 (or so) you can take a private sale car to a dealer and they will go over your potential car with a fine toothed comb.  They will basically look for all the stuff they would if they were selling the car.  Sure they might miss something; but they might miss something with a car they're selling too.  They want to catch everything, because you might give them the repair work for what they find.  Compare that $100 to the KBB difference between private party and dealer car values ($2k for the cars you're looking at?).  Note that I say from a private party selling his or her own car.  There is a whole class of car flippers out there who are expert at getting damaged cars running in the absolute cheapest way possible and hiding flaws.  I've looked at a couple of cars from folks like that with all manner of engine shakes, "washed" salvaged titles, small head gasket leaks, you name it.  A mechanic or carfax caught them all, but after so many bad apples, I don't trust the bunch.  Small third party dealers can have some of these problems too, but at least with a dealers license you have some legal protections that you don't buying from a private party. 

obstinate

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Re: efficient car choice
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2016, 06:28:34 PM »
Go to the IIHS driver death rates page and figure out the driver mortality rates for your prospective vehicle
This is very much the wrong calculation, since the populations choosing these cars are not the same. Correlation isn't causation.