Do you support your parents financially?

[Steeze]

Whatever you do, do it in a way that makes you seem like the good guy. For example, don't buy your parents a condo and then expect them to pay YOU for utilities and taxes. Better to let them buy the condo and you give them the mortgage payment, utility money, or grocery money when they can't figure it out. If you are bailing them out you look like a hero.

[yachi]

Thank you for the replies all, it's really nice to hear other perspectives! I missed these replies for the last couple days so I'm still reading through them and I'll reply individually on desktop when I can.

A couple commenters called out the particular difficulty of me being significantly better off than my parents. Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a cultural expectation that I'll take care of them financially, but it's also not unprecedented in my family... We have quite an extreme spread of wealth and hardship throughout my family and rather than people being entitled, I would instead say that there's a bias towards generosity. My parents didn't pay for my college or anything, but still, they're my parents so they definitely contributed to my success - it feels natural to want to pay them back for all the other stuff. I would feel pretty bad if I were to retire before they did, you know?

So I guess more specifically, I'd like to figure out what kinds of questions might be best to start with, maybe with a financial planner present. And if I am helping save for them, I feel like I personally need to have a more organized investing/saving plan, possibly covering any tax advantaged options for them. I saw one commenter mention insurance that could cover certain long term care expenses if needed (though, like others, my parents are currently in the school of "just take me out back and shoot me" long term care lol). That's something I've never heard of but I'm interested in specifics like that.

Hopefully they're just in better shape than I think. I'm most worried about the healthcare landscape in case either of them gets really sick. Medical expenses have been a hardship for them in the past and I can't see that getting any easier as they age.

Long term care insurance would protect your parents from using up all their assets on a nursing home or long term care facility, so that those assets can be inherited.  What typically happens in low/medium income and low-asset families, is that assets are spent down or sold to the point where Medicaid kicks in and pays the nursing home/ long term care facility bill.

If you're worried about your parents being able to afford nursing home care, purchasing long term care insurance for them (with your money) doesn't make sense because in that scenario you don't stand to inherit anything, so you aren't protecting any assets with the insurance.  It's better to let them qualify for Medicaid, and save the LTC insurance premiums to provide for them in other ways.

There's a fringe case to be made where you buy a large enough policy to pay for ultra-premium long term care facilities that don't accept Medicaid, but this seems inapplicable to your situation.

[AlanStache]

I fifth the option that you talk to a counselor.  That way you can lay out all the details and they can give you a frank outside perspective. 
(To much in our culture we look down on those using a counselor - we should not but that is a different thread.)  There is a huge range of possible family dynamics that you could have going on as well as what your parents may want or need at some point in the future. 

Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional. 

[goldensam]

I am not well off by any stretch and am not even LeanFI yet, but have done better financially than anyone else in my extended family. None of them know specifics, other than the salary of my first job out of college, when I didn't yet realize I didn't have to answer that question. I have helped my mom and one sibling quite a bit with loans and gifts, although my mom is the only one who actually pays me back. She is divorced and does not have any retirement savings at all. She works a physical job and I know her body is breaking down and she will not be able to continue full time for long. She has joked that I am her retirement plan. There are a lot of things that make this much more complicated for me than it first appears. I like to be generous with loved ones and certainly do not want to see someone I love struggle, but with that said, there are years and years of physical and emotional abuse from my mother that have never been acknowledged, much less apologized for, and the emotional parts of it continue to this day. The physical abuse stopped when I was in high school and finally big enough to defend myself. I am not a dr, but a therapist familiar with the situation has acknowledged that my mom likely has NPD, and since she refuses to take any accountability, I know nothing will change. I began working at 14 and was on my own at 16, couch-surfing while finishing high school, which I barely did.

My mom lives a pretty flashy lifestyle, mostly on credit. Luxury car, nice clothes, expensive restaurants, etc. Her friends are all upper middle class and she tries to keep up with them. I am not super frugal, but I do try to be mindful of my spending and am saving for retirement. The history of abuse and lack of financial support adds a whole layer of complexity on this for me. I don't want to reward her bad behavior, but I also know if push comes to shove, I'm not going to let her starve or be homeless. Families are so complicated.

[anni]

OK, thanks again for all the responses. Many suggested counseling - luckily, I am already in online counseling as of a few weeks ago, but I haven't brought up this issue yet. I will add it to the growing list of topics to discuss, LOL. @Gardencat thank you especially for recommending that I look for our employee assistance program, I found out we do get a few free financial counseling AND mental health counseling sessions so I might just go and use a couple of those here soon. No one ever talks about that benefit but it's awesome.

I really appreciate everyone sharing both positive and negative experiences - I think I've gotten a little taste of both so far in my own life, which is definitely going to help me set rules for myself. Without going into too much detail I've also "lent" decent chunks of money to family in the past with no expectation of repayment and I really don't want that to be a part of my family relationships in the future, it just makes everything feel tense and transactional. The examples that some have given about subtler ways of helping out have been helpful. The warnings to set strong boundaries are also duly noted (have definitely set very flimsy boundaries in the past that immediately crumbled).

[iris lily]

...

...Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional.

I mentioned this before on this website, but I need a counselor trained in both marriage therapy and in finances! Duo expertise. I’m trying to conceptualize reasonable execution of our end-of-life finances.

We are retired and have decent amount of money. I want to articulate and end of life spending plan. I know I need to save At least half $1 million for potential nursing home care. But what can I spend above and beyond that, not impoverish  my spouse, and spend according to an expectation that would make me happy because I’ve been frugal all my life?

It is a conundrum.

I’m getting off subject here, sorry OP.

[Nangirl17]

Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, OP, and for all the great responses that everyone has posted.

I recently learned that my "close to FIRE" situation (2ish yrs) might be much farther away... my MIL (whom I thought was loaded because she lavishes us with expensive gifts and food - e.g. a $90 scarf for a 'stocking' present at Christmas among 10 other gifts...) is actually just frittering away the money that my now-deceased FIL was sheltering for her dotage and children's inheritance. I'm worried that we'll be stuck holding the bag for her $11K/month lifestyle (which is roughly the gross salary that my DH and I make combined). DH refuses to talk to her (due to her emotional manipulation) about the fact that she is going to run out of money and needs to budget. We love her dearly and won't let her live under a bridge, but I'm terrified that she'll make our life unbearable once she runs out of money due to her lifestyle expectations. Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone. Something to work on...

[Linea_Norway]

OK, thanks again for all the responses. Many suggested counseling - luckily, I am already in online counseling as of a few weeks ago, but I haven't brought up this issue yet. I will add it to the growing list of topics to discuss, LOL. @Gardencat thank you especially for recommending that I look for our employee assistance program, I found out we do get a few free financial counseling AND mental health counseling sessions so I might just go and use a couple of those here soon. No one ever talks about that benefit but it's awesome.

I really appreciate everyone sharing both positive and negative experiences - I think I've gotten a little taste of both so far in my own life, which is definitely going to help me set rules for myself. Without going into too much detail I've also "lent" decent chunks of money to family in the past with no expectation of repayment and I really don't want that to be a part of my family relationships in the future, it just makes everything feel tense and transactional. The examples that some have given about subtler ways of helping out have been helpful. The warnings to set strong boundaries are also duly noted (have definitely set very flimsy boundaries in the past that immediately crumbled).

There are several threads on this forum about lending money to a friend or relative and not getting it back. I think the general advice there was to not lend money to a friend or relative. And if you really want to help a friend or relative financially, just hand over the money as a gift. That clears the tension for both parties. But remember that some people are leeches and will use you as their bank all their time. Better to let them handle their own problems, you are not responsible for the rest of your extended adult family.

[Metalcat]

...

...Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional.

I mentioned this before on this website, but I need a counselor trained in both marriage therapy and in finances! Duo expertise. I’m trying to conceptualize reasonable execution of our end-of-life finances.

We are retired and have decent amount of money. I want to articulate and end of life spending plan. I know I need to save At least half $1 million for potential nursing home care. But what can I spend above and beyond that, not impoverish  my spouse, and spend according to an expectation that would make me happy because I’ve been frugal all my life?

It is a conundrum.

I’m getting off subject here, sorry OP.

???

Well, clinical counsellors specifically don't tell people what to do (at least they're trained not to), so perhaps you're thinking you need a financial advisor or a financial coach?

The reason we're suggesting a counsellor for financial issues in this case is for OP to determine and develop their own boundaries, not for the counsellor to advise them in any way as to how to manage the finances of supporting their parents.

It's important to seek the right professional for the right challenge.

If you are looking for someone to help you figure out how to make money decisions, build a realistic budget/plan, and tackle your challenges that you have with money, then a financial coach is the way to go.

[AlanStache]

...

...Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional.

I mentioned this before on this website, but I need a counselor trained in both marriage therapy and in finances! Duo expertise. I’m trying to conceptualize reasonable execution of our end-of-life finances.

We are retired and have decent amount of money. I want to articulate and end of life spending plan. I know I need to save At least half $1 million for potential nursing home care. But what can I spend above and beyond that, not impoverish  my spouse, and spend according to an expectation that would make me happy because I’ve been frugal all my life?

It is a conundrum.

I’m getting off subject here, sorry OP.

Dont let the desire for perfection get in the way of good enough.  Personally I think it easier to DIY the money part (am an engineer...) once you know what you want to do maybe meet with a pro to make it official.  WRT the counselor side, dont get stuck doing nothing because you cant find a perfect helper; more than likely any trained pro will be better than doing nothing. 

[Sibley]

Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, OP, and for all the great responses that everyone has posted.

I recently learned that my "close to FIRE" situation (2ish yrs) might be much farther away... my MIL (whom I thought was loaded because she lavishes us with expensive gifts and food - e.g. a $90 scarf for a 'stocking' present at Christmas among 10 other gifts...) is actually just frittering away the money that my now-deceased FIL was sheltering for her dotage and children's inheritance. I'm worried that we'll be stuck holding the bag for her $11K/month lifestyle (which is roughly the gross salary that my DH and I make combined). DH refuses to talk to her (due to her emotional manipulation) about the fact that she is going to run out of money and needs to budget. We love her dearly and won't let her live under a bridge, but I'm terrified that she'll make our life unbearable once she runs out of money due to her lifestyle expectations. Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone. Something to work on...

I was going to write a whole long book about this, but I'm going to boil it down. Ya'll need therapy. Especially your DH. Messed up family dynamics are HARD. Get your heads sorted out, then tackle the MIL problem.

[Metalcat]

Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, OP, and for all the great responses that everyone has posted.

I recently learned that my "close to FIRE" situation (2ish yrs) might be much farther away... my MIL (whom I thought was loaded because she lavishes us with expensive gifts and food - e.g. a $90 scarf for a 'stocking' present at Christmas among 10 other gifts...) is actually just frittering away the money that my now-deceased FIL was sheltering for her dotage and children's inheritance. I'm worried that we'll be stuck holding the bag for her $11K/month lifestyle (which is roughly the gross salary that my DH and I make combined). DH refuses to talk to her (due to her emotional manipulation) about the fact that she is going to run out of money and needs to budget. We love her dearly and won't let her live under a bridge, but I'm terrified that she'll make our life unbearable once she runs out of money due to her lifestyle expectations. Anyway, thanks for the advice, everyone. Something to work on...

I was going to write a whole long book about this, but I'm going to boil it down. Ya'll need therapy. Especially your DH. Messed up family dynamics are HARD. Get your heads sorted out, then tackle the MIL problem.

Same, could write a novel, but it all boils down to "fuck, this situation REALLY needs therapy". There are so many boundary issues in that post, it's just red flags all over.

[clarkfan1979]

My parents are divorced. One side is responsible with money and do not need help. The other side is irresponsible. The irresponsible side makes 90K/year on a 60K pension, 25K in social security and a 5K annuity. They are 71 years old and constantly complain about being broke.

They did refinance their primary home about 9 months ago. I think their payment is about $250/month lower and they actually did stop complaining for a while. The extra $250/month seems to be helping. I am wondering how long it will take before they start complaining again.

My wife and I make around 85K-90K/year depending on expenses from rental houses. Because they make more money than us and we also have a 3 year old to support, I do not think it makes sense for us to give them money.

I recently found out that I am totally off the hook for supporting them. One of my siblings is running a very successful real estate brokerage. If my parents need help, my real estate superstar siblings will help them, not me.

[Nangirl17]

Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, OP, and for all the great responses that everyone has posted.

I recently learned that my "close to FIRE" situation (2ish yrs) might be much farther away.......... Something to work on...

I was going to write a whole long book about this, but I'm going to boil it down. Ya'll need therapy. Especially your DH. Messed up family dynamics are HARD. Get your heads sorted out, then tackle the MIL problem.

Same, could write a novel, but it all boils down to "fuck, this situation REALLY needs therapy". There are so many boundary issues in that post, it's just red flags all over.

Points taken. There are some hard conversations down the road whichever way we go, and better to plan ahead and seek counseling/make decisions before crisis hits. Thanks for boiling it down.

[Metalcat]

Thanks so much for bringing up this topic, OP, and for all the great responses that everyone has posted.

I recently learned that my "close to FIRE" situation (2ish yrs) might be much farther away.......... Something to work on...

I was going to write a whole long book about this, but I'm going to boil it down. Ya'll need therapy. Especially your DH. Messed up family dynamics are HARD. Get your heads sorted out, then tackle the MIL problem.

Same, could write a novel, but it all boils down to "fuck, this situation REALLY needs therapy". There are so many boundary issues in that post, it's just red flags all over.

Points taken. There are some hard conversations down the road whichever way we go, and better to plan ahead and seek counseling/make decisions before crisis hits. Thanks for boiling it down.

Fuck, good luck. I feel for you.

Incidentally, I was in a somewhat similar situation, but in your DH's position. My DH and I would never have been able to navigate it had I not had a really good therapist through the whole thing.

[iris lily]

...

...Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional.

I mentioned this before on this website, but I need a counselor trained in both marriage therapy and in finances! Duo expertise. I’m trying to conceptualize reasonable execution of our end-of-life finances.

We are retired and have decent amount of money. I want to articulate and end of life spending plan. I know I need to save At least half $1 million for potential nursing home care. But what can I spend above and beyond that, not impoverish  my spouse, and spend according to an expectation that would make me happy because I’ve been frugal all my life?

It is a conundrum.

I’m getting off subject here, sorry OP.

???

Well, clinical counsellors specifically don't tell people what to do (at least they're trained not to), so perhaps you're thinking you need a financial advisor or a financial coach?

The reason we're suggesting a counsellor for financial issues in this case is for OP to determine and develop their own boundaries, not for the counsellor to advise them in any way as to how to manage the finances of supporting their parents.

It's important to seek the right professional for the right challenge.

If you are looking for someone to help you figure out how to make money decisions, build a realistic budget/plan, and tackle your challenges that you have with money, then a financial coach is the way to go.

What kind of credentials does a financial coach have?

I still think I need a marriage therapist to tease out the real issues here in my dilemma, It has to do with honoring DH but also honoring my own spending desires for the next 10-20 years. I should really start a thread about it because it’s not something that is clear in my mind, and that’s unusual because most things are pretty clear in my mind.


But I will say that as time marches on I’m getting a little more clarity.

[Metalcat]

...

...Talk to a counselor before you talk to a finance professional.

I mentioned this before on this website, but I need a counselor trained in both marriage therapy and in finances! Duo expertise. I’m trying to conceptualize reasonable execution of our end-of-life finances.

We are retired and have decent amount of money. I want to articulate and end of life spending plan. I know I need to save At least half $1 million for potential nursing home care. But what can I spend above and beyond that, not impoverish  my spouse, and spend according to an expectation that would make me happy because I’ve been frugal all my life?

It is a conundrum.

I’m getting off subject here, sorry OP.

???

Well, clinical counsellors specifically don't tell people what to do (at least they're trained not to), so perhaps you're thinking you need a financial advisor or a financial coach?

The reason we're suggesting a counsellor for financial issues in this case is for OP to determine and develop their own boundaries, not for the counsellor to advise them in any way as to how to manage the finances of supporting their parents.

It's important to seek the right professional for the right challenge.

If you are looking for someone to help you figure out how to make money decisions, build a realistic budget/plan, and tackle your challenges that you have with money, then a financial coach is the way to go.

What kind of credentials does a financial coach have?

I still think I need a marriage therapist to tease out the real issues here in my dilemma, It has to do with honoring DH but also honoring my own spending desires for the next 10-20 years. I should really start a thread about it because it’s not something that is clear in my mind, and that’s unusual because most things are pretty clear in my mind.


But I will say that as time marches on I’m getting a little more clarity.

Yes, a marriage counsellor is pretty much always the right go to if there is any marital issue. However, sometimes a marriage mediator is a better option. Sometimes both.
There is credentialing for both counsellors and mediators, but it will depend on your jurisdiction if either is a controlled act, meaning that only credentialed people can do them.

Where I live, literally anyone can call themselves a marriage therapist, but only someone with a degree in clinical counselling and registration with the governing body of psychotherapists can call themselves a marriage counsellor.

As for coaches, there is no credentialing, but there is extensive, high level education. It's up to you to figure out if someone has the skills you actually need to help you. Some financial planners have these skills, some don't. Some coaches have these skills, some don't.

Truthfully, most people can cobble together the advice they need just by participating here, but you have to be willing to open up the guts of your finances and personal life to the internet. Something I've never been willing to do. Still, just by participating here and reading other's advice, I've managed to figure out my own finances.

If you truly need one on one help with this, then yes, you are going to struggle to track down the appropriately skilled professional for your needs. In many areas, they just don't exist.

If I were you though, I would start with the marriage counselling.

[ericrugiero]

I'm a little worried about how this will work out with my in-laws.  They were poor when they were newly married with 4 kids so they were forced to be frugal.  As their kids grew up, they started making good money but they spend freely and borrowed a lot for their kid's (including my wife) college.  I'm fully expecting them to struggle financially once they retire but they will probably be too proud to ask for or accept financial assistance if they have any options.  It could easily end up with them living with us after they run out of money.  I really don't expect a big financial impact but there could easily be a pretty big lifestyle impact if they do live with us.    If it does come down to financial assistance, I have mixed feelings.  On one hand, they have made good salaries for years and have not managed their money well.  On the other hand, they are very loving and generous.  Part of their financial struggles are due to giving money to kids and grandkids.  I'm sure I would be willing to support them financially if it really came down to it but I can't pretend them wasting money we gave them wouldn't be a struggle. 

My Dad is more frugal than I am.  I believe he is in good shape financially so I don't expect any issues on that side of the family. 

[Cassie]

Maybe either stop accepting money for grandkids or put into a account to give back to them. Parents living with their adult kids ruins marriages. I would help them budget or apply for needed services when the time comes.

[anni]

I'm really happy this sparked so much discussion and I'm glad/sorry that so many others have experienced the same sorts of anxiety. Since starting this thread, I've been doing some online counseling, which really has helped alleviate some of the most painful feelings I was feeling. I haven't talked to my parents about anything yet - I want to wait until our relationship is a little less strained, once we're able to see each other in person again. I can envision a happy ending right now where I help cover their housing costs in the form of a real estate investment that we'll both be happy with (they've always wanted to retire to Florida). But, I'm not going to stress too much over it until I have the chance to talk it through with them.

[AlanStache]

I'm really happy this sparked so much discussion and I'm glad/sorry that so many others have experienced the same sorts of anxiety. Since starting this thread, I've been doing some online counseling, which really has helped alleviate some of the most painful feelings I was feeling. I haven't talked to my parents about anything yet - I want to wait until our relationship is a little less strained, once we're able to see each other in person again. I can envision a happy ending right now where I help cover their housing costs in the form of a real estate investment that we'll both be happy with (they've always wanted to retire to Florida). But, I'm not going to stress too much over it until I have the chance to talk it through with them.

Great!  Just remember time has a way of speeding along a lot faster than we think it does.

[anni]

Reviving this thread to share this really delightful blogger Johnny F.D's post about retiring his parents. He's not too similar to most of the folks on this forum, I'd say he's more focused on growing niche business ventures to massively increase his income rather than reducing his expenses. But basically what he does is pay his parents' property tax on their house, and pays his mom 1k/month.

I'm finally visiting my family for the first time in what feels like forever, and it has been pretty sobering. I got a sense of what they'll have when they retire and it's... not enough.

More and more, I think my FIRE journey is probably transforming into just a FI journey with my excess earnings going back into making sure the rest of my family is taken care of.

[Paper Chaser]

Is there a plan for what might happen to this arrangement if you have your own family one day? I can kind of understand helping out family if it's just you sacrificing, and you feel like it's something that you want to do. But if it means your spouse or offspring might have to sacrifice as well I'd lean toward that being way out of bounds, and obviously your allegiance should go toward your own family (significant other/kids) before your parents or siblings.

[Psychstache]

Is there a plan for what might happen to this arrangement if you have your own family one day? I can kind of understand helping out family if it's just you sacrificing, and you feel like it's something that you want to do. But if it means your spouse or offspring might have to sacrifice as well I'd lean toward that being way out of bounds, and obviously your allegiance should go toward your own family (significant other/kids) before your parents or siblings.

This is a very American sentiment and not the only way to consider the allocation of your financial resources.

[anni]

Is there a plan for what might happen to this arrangement if you have your own family one day? I can kind of understand helping out family if it's just you sacrificing, and you feel like it's something that you want to do. But if it means your spouse or offspring might have to sacrifice as well I'd lean toward that being way out of bounds, and obviously your allegiance should go toward your own family (significant other/kids) before your parents or siblings.

I think from what everyone has emphasized here so far, having a happy and generous arrangement is about establishing boundaries early and holding to them. "Allegiance" is kind of a weird way to frame it, but if my parents have spent their whole lives so far prioritizing me, why shouldn't I return the favor if I am able to do so comfortably? I don't see why marriage and kids, if any, have to play second fiddle to my parents. I don't think I could happily become a parent if I was simultaneously watching my own parents suffer. As long as I set up my priorities and my boundaries before I start making promises, I think it will be okay. If it just comes down to a question of whether I get to retire early or not, I consider myself extremely privileged.

[Sayyadina]

No. Not yet.

Between the two of us, my husband and I have four parental units. His mother is quite well off and quite frugal. We aren't worried about her. She was pretty nervous after my FIL died and my husband helped her sort out the investments and planning and all that. She goes to him over his brothers because he's the only one who has the patience to actually make sure she understands the trade offs and helps her to make the decisions she's most comfortable with. They aren't the decisions we would make, but that's okay. She feels better with a more conservative portfolio, and is living comfortably with a 2% withdrawal rate.

My three sets of parents are a mixed bag. My dad is probably in the worst financial shape (maybe, it's an evolving thing) and talks about still working 2-3 days a week in retirement. Not for funsies, but because he has to. This stresses me out a lot, because he won't let us contribute. And not even in a big systemic way, but in a little "we're visiting, can we pay for one of the meals out" kind of way. I try to cook when we visit now, because it's a way to help out. But I love him, our relationship is rock solid, and the biggest worry is that he won't tell us if he needs something.

My step-dad is doing pretty great. I think the divorce from my mum was rough, and may have impacted his finances, but he's careful and frugal and in a decent position. He probably also wouldn't tell us if he was having problems, but at least I have a step-sister (x2? Ish?) on that side for him and his new wife. (Bio kid of step dad, me, and new step mum's daughter). So between the three of us, I'm sure everything's going to be good. If it turned out he needed support, I would be happy to help. We're really aligned philosophically.

Mum is. Hm. We weren't worried about her while she was with my step-dad. But it's a good example that situations change, because she had a mental health crisis, blew up her life, and now is with a new guy. She thinks she's an entrepreneur, but she's really an academic. Her business is a money sink with no customers and she just keeps throwing cash she doesn't have at the problem. She's still struggling with her mental health but this crisis is quieter, so although she's likely to get fired (really really hard for an academic to do) it's also harder to help. Especially from a distance. And although it might sound callous, I can't help her emotionally. It's bad for my mental health. We recently got over a period of about 6 weeks of not talking because of huge boundary overstepping behaviour on her side. When she knew I was struggling with post-partum depression. Yeah. It's not good.

*

So we haven't really talked to any of the parents about financial plans, but my husband and I have a game plan for ourselves. We know what our budget is, we know about how much basic support (housing and food) would cost, and we've built it into our safe withdrawal plan. I don't want to retire without the ability to help. Which doesn't necessarily mean we will end up extending the offer. Right now with Mum, I don't think it would be a healthy way for us to be tied together. If our relationship gets stronger (so far I'm cautiously optimistic, but still, mental health challenges are a doozy to deal with) and her financial situation gets worse (most definitely) we might.

I'm definitely of the mind that we need to put ourselves in order first. I won't risk our financial future, especially with my son in the picture now. But it's something we're planning to put ourselves in the position to be able to do, and if we don't end up doing so, it'll be another piece of our own safety margin.

[BlueHouse]

Yes, my sister and I both contribute to my mom's monthly needs and also pay for any splurges.  My sister has more money, so she pays for all her trips and any fancy dinners out, where I pay for things like extra groceries, housecleaner, phone bill, iPhone, computers & electronics, etc. 

My mom can actually cover most of her costs with her small pension + SS, but we like for her to have some extra pleasure in life.  She worked really hard as a single mom of 5 for many years, and we just want her to enjoy her retirement.  Unfortunately, now she has dementia and the expenses just add up. 

She's been paying into 2 different LTC insurance schemes for decades:  one of home health care, and the other for long term care when home visits are no longer doable.  Unfortunately, the Insurance companies are asses and are giving us the run-around.  It seems to be pretty common that they just deny all claims at first and then make you jump through all types of hoops to try to get approved. 

Mom's also the type where she'll let us pay for certain monthly expenses, yet wants to pay in to life insurance so there can be something for us when she's gone.  She truly doesn't understand how those numbers work out, and it's really frustrating because any insurance would be split with my brothers - who contribute NOTHING financially or emotionally. 

[Paper Chaser]

Is there a plan for what might happen to this arrangement if you have your own family one day? I can kind of understand helping out family if it's just you sacrificing, and you feel like it's something that you want to do. But if it means your spouse or offspring might have to sacrifice as well I'd lean toward that being way out of bounds, and obviously your allegiance should go toward your own family (significant other/kids) before your parents or siblings.

I think from what everyone has emphasized here so far, having a happy and generous arrangement is about establishing boundaries early and holding to them. "Allegiance" is kind of a weird way to frame it, but if my parents have spent their whole lives so far prioritizing me, why shouldn't I return the favor if I am able to do so comfortably? I don't see why marriage and kids, if any, have to play second fiddle to my parents. I don't think I could happily become a parent if I was simultaneously watching my own parents suffer. As long as I set up my priorities and my boundaries before I start making promises, I think it will be okay. If it just comes down to a question of whether I get to retire early or not, I consider myself extremely privileged.

Cool. It sounds like there's at least some loose plan for that possibility. I just wanted to bring it up since I hadn't seen it mentioned yet. I've seen some people in their 20s support their parents quite a bit, and it's hurt their opportunities for romantic relationships and stunted growth in their own lives that they really wanted, so that's where I was coming from. Sharing the wealth to support family that needs some help is admirable in my book. Letting it become a burden that weighs you down and keeps your from having fulfillment in your life is not. I think you recognize the difference. I don't see a big difference between a childless person working a bit longer to support their parents than a person with a family working a bit longer for the sake of their children. As long as you're happy and don't feel burdened by the arrangement I think it can be noble. If delaying retirement is all that's required to make the lives of your family better, I think that's probably a no brainer for a lot of people.

[marion10]

My in-laws ( FIL was a retired pastor) were not wealthy- but managed their money well and were frugal. My MIL eventually went into a nursing home, all assets exhausted and was on Medicaid. For $200 a month, she could have a private room- which was more comfortable for her in the beginning- later didn’t matter for her- but made visiting easier and made the other siblings feel better. That was a no brainer. My mother ( in her 80s) is divorced and does okay- one of my siblings pays her cellphone bill, we send her some money each month to pay an excellent cleaning lady who comes in twice a month and cleans and does some things  - like moving boxes in and out of the garage my mother cannot handle. Generally, we take her on one trip a year- family reunion or Florida in the winter.

[Psyche]

I don't have personal experience (yet), but I come from a cultural background where I'll definitely consider it.

This was recently discussed by Rich & Regular: https://richandregular.com/coping-with-the-decision-to-financially-support-a-parent/

[anni]

I don't have personal experience (yet), but I come from a cultural background where I'll definitely consider it.

This was recently discussed by Rich & Regular: https://richandregular.com/coping-with-the-decision-to-financially-support-a-parent/

Thank you for sharing this. They didn't really get into how they made their decision, in terms of conflict resolution, or really what the consequences so far have been, but maybe in their podcast episode they do. I did take away an interesting book recommendation though from the quote they shared. I know a lot of other people my age who are struggling with a sense of community and place.

The process of finding common ground created conflict and there was a lot of it. But it was conflict worth having because it revealed where we were using the fantasy of control as a coping mechanism. It also revealed where our imagination was lacking.  One of my favorite authors, Mia Birdsong, once said… "Without accessible, celebrated models of what happiness, purpose, connection and love look like outside the American Dream model, we are pulled in toward it.” ~Mia Birdsong, How We Show Up

Very nice.

@Finances_With_Purpose Thank you for all that spare change, I'm very grateful for the real life experience. I am happy that you had such a good relationship, and yet the fact that it was still hard for you is definitely illuminating. I am holding off on making any suggestions or commitments for the foreseeable future, and instead focusing on helping my mom preserve her small business for now (empowerment over enablement, right?). But I've started making mental notes of all the little things that are obviously burdensome to them, that I could slowly start taking over direct payments for. And bigger one-time things like getting their floors refinished for them that might make for special Christmas gifts in years to come. Like, two years ago I replaced a really old piece of furniture for them that they had been talking about wanting to replace for years, and it was relatively easy, felt really good, and improved their quality of life.

I really do not know if I'm going to become a parent myself, it's never been a desire of mine, but if I do I'm sure that's going to change a lot of mental math for me in ways that are basically unimaginable to me right now. I think MMM's own blog posts about his allegedly negligible costs to raise his kid have overly downplayed that expense in my mind.

I really hope I haven't misrepresented my folks, though, re: red flags. We have been financially independent of each other since I left home. They are quite proud and independent people and they don't lean on me right now for support. We haven't really talked about finances since I (regrettably) first shared the idea of my FIRE goal with my mom at age 20, until now (since I'm finally asking her about their retirement plans). I think they've done their best with what they had and I don't begrudge them anything, I just don't want them to suffer. I cannot imagine how charmed my childhood must have been compared to theirs. I think they are just upset at the idea of their only successful kid retiring at 35 while they continue to have to work until they physically cannot anymore. It sounds pretty bad on paper, and pointlessly individualistic.

FWIW I've spoken to a few friends on the subject. Some of my friends whose parents were poor immigrants think it's a pretty reasonable notion (I know one guy who started sending $500/mo home to his folks as soon as he started working). Some friends have parents who they don't even talk to, and some friends have parents who are absolutely loaded so they don't worry about them at all, and then there's everything in between. The expectation to take care of my parents is at least 50% one I've consciously placed on myself.

[Sibley]

Well, my parents are currently living with me. It's temporary. Dad retired in March, they sold the house and moved to my area. They are staying with me until they find their own place. They are actively looking at houses, so while it'll take a while to find the right house and get an offer accepted, it will happen.

I'm not giving them money though. They're not paying rent, but they are doing dishes, some of the grocery shopping, pretty much all the cooking so far, and they're taking a lot of the cat care. I haven't mowed the lawn since they arrived since dad does it. He bought me a new lawnmower blade. They are horrible at cleaning - vacuuming, cleaning bathrooms, etc. They're doing their own laundry. I'm enforcing washing sheets on a regular schedule because otherwise I have no idea how frequently they'll do that. None of this is a surprise, it is consistent with what they were doing at their house before.

Bigger picture, I may murder my mother. I'm deliberately scheduling things outside the house so that I don't kill her. I'm pretty cool with my dad.

Please pray they find a house soon. It's been 2 and half weeks.

Edit 6/13: they found a house, inspection this week. It needs work. I'm volunteering to strip wallpaper, paint, and do whatever else just to get them out of my house. Oh, and their cat is picking on my cat (who despite being bigger won't fight back) and I've had one vet trip so far because Jesse bit Arwen's tail. Sigh.

[Psyche]

Here's another resource:

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1032992/how-to-help-loved-ones-financially

[clarkfan1979]

My parents are divorced. One side is responsible with money and do not need help. The other side is irresponsible. The irresponsible side makes 90K/year on a 60K pension, 25K in social security and a 5K annuity. They are 71 years old and constantly complain about being broke.

They did refinance their primary home about 9 months ago. I think their payment is about $250/month lower and they actually did stop complaining for a while. The extra $250/month seems to be helping. I am wondering how long it will take before they start complaining again.

My wife and I make around 85K-90K/year depending on expenses from rental houses. Because they make more money than us and we also have a 3 year old to support, I do not think it makes sense for us to give them money.

I recently found out that I am totally off the hook for supporting them. One of my siblings is running a very successful real estate brokerage. If my parents need help, my real estate superstar siblings will help them, not me.

As predicted, my high income step-sister realtor has started the process of helping my parents out financially. This is good news for me because I don't want to give them money. If my parents truly needed help, I would help them. However, they simply spend more than they make. They have 88K/year in pension and social security and inherited about 300K in 2012. It's not possible for them to live on 88K/year, so they spend from the 300K nest egg. That 300K is now around 30K. For 2020, they sold 16K of stock at a 5% loss for a 3-year holding period. They sold at the bottom in March. 

Step-sister is buying them a 92K single family home as a summer/vacation house with cash in the upper Midwest. My parents are residents of Florida. After closing costs, let's call it 95K. My parents will sell their current vacation home, which is in a summer RV park. My parents are hoping to net 47.5K and then give my step-sister 47.5K, so the house ownership is 50/50. Upon sale of house, the profits would be 50/50.

Part of the good news is that they are selling the trailer and buying a single family home, which should do a better job of holding it's value. My parents bought the trailer for 42K in 2016. They put 10K of repairs into it and 4 years of labor. I'm guessing they sell it for 50K for a 2K loss (not including transaction costs). If they use the park management as the seller, I think it's 5% commission. I think a realtor would be 10% commission.

In conclusion, it's a win-win-win. My parents get a vacation house they can't afford, my step-sister feels good about helping them out and now I'm off the hook for giving them money.

 

[MrThatsDifferent]

I only support my mother financially when she visits me. She has enough money to look after herself but she doesn’t have extra money for anything big. So every other year or so I fly her to me and the last couple of trips I’ve instituted a “you keep your money for souvenirs “ policy and pay for everything and anything she wants while she visits me. She doesn’t have anyone else in her life who does this, and I feel it’s the least I can do. She’s so grateful she never abuses anything and we have a great time together, which we never used to. I believe in the: spend money on experiences not things philosophy.

[Abe]

Our family has a tradition of the older generation eventually moving in with their children once they are unable to maintain a house themselves. In the old country they would hire servants to help, but in the US my parents wouldn’t and instead took care of household things for their parents who lived with us or their siblings on a rotating basis (every 6 months or so). Us grandkids liked to because the grandparents were around, our parents liked the free babysitting, and the grandparents liked it because they didn’t want to live alone in the old country. All of this was possible because of each generation’s wealth. Essentially the grandparents gave over their finances to the adult children for management, and the children covered any major medical expenses. My grandparents didn’t spend money on anything other than food and some gifts for grandkids, so money wasn’t an issue. They would be horrified to expect their children to pay for anything more than literal necessities essential for life.

Now as my parents get older, we’ve switched to a more independent dynamic: they don’t want to live with me and vice versa. Mostly because we all like our space, not any relationship problems. Same with my wife and her parents. I do know both sets of parents would rather be in a Medicaid-funded nursing home with their pensions/SS than have us fund their (middle class US) lifestyles. My parents said it would be dishonorable for them to ask money from us under any circumstance. We negotiated that healthcare and food are exceptions to that rule. So within a generation the living arrangements have changed as a result of the surrounding culture, but the fundamental principles of each generation taking care of itself remain. The overall expectation in our cultures is that after one stops working, there’s not much else other than being at home and living off whatever you saved. No fancy retirements in our family; it is seen as a retirement from the material trappings of this world.

[Jack0Life]

My parents are rich. Worth ~$1.2 million but they live like hobos. They only spend their SS each month while their net worth keep growing. I keep telling my Mom to live large. Stop trying to leave money for us.
Still in the same old dingy house they bought 40 yrs ago and none of us are near to take care of them. I'm the nearest. One of my sister bought a house with a room for them to live 5 yrs ago and they changed their mind. Another sister has a spare duplex that they can live but they said its too cold(NC). My brother just got them a house across the street and they barely spend time there. They want our help but thinks we should move nearer to them. Not going to happen. Stubbornness is strong.
My wife parents are still in another country and she's been thinking of ways to help them. She trying to convince me to let them live with us(still a NO with me). But on the last visit, they got stuck here for almost a year with the pandemic and that terrified them. Finally got a country sponsored plane to go back so I don't think they will come back here anytime soon.

[cupcakery]

I don't want to help either side.  My parents have never helped me.  They have money, so they should be okay.  They want my physical labor.  I'm supposed to help them, so that they can use their energy to help my siblings.  I'm supposed to be the independent one.  Nope, sorry.  No.  They also don't eat right or exercise and have health issues.  Good luck with those consequences!

My ILs will run out of money.  I will be po'd if DH wants to help them.  Which he will.  They do nothing but shop.  They also like to help their other children.  I'm not interested in supporting their shopping habits or supporting them so that they can support others.  I've already put my foot down on a few requests for money after hearing about their financial support of others, so DH isn't a total pushover.

I've told my kids that one of the greatest gifts I can give them is to make sure I'm never dependent upon them.  They have my permission to throw me in a home.   I'm saving and take care of myself, so it should be a non-issue. 

I would have a REAL problem with anyone expecting me to do anything.  Anything I do for anyone is a gift and I won't be guilted into anything.

[dcheesi]

My parents never asked for help financially, and probably wouldn't have unless/until things were really desperate.

My brother moved back home after taking an "early retirement"¹ buyout, and it turned out to be a win-win, as mom & dad needed more help around the house than they were letting on. But it wasn't so much financial aid as it was helping out with physical tasks and with technology, which my (former telecomm. engineer) father had become increasingly out of touch with (and mom was never in touch with in the first place).

Later, after my brother had passed, my mom wound up in a nursing home. They still had some money to cover it, but I had to help make sure that things got paid on time, as dad had become less reliable and more stubborn in equal measure. If things had continued as they seemed likely to, I was expecting to have to subsidize mom's care within a year or two (initially using money inherited from my brother's retirement funds). However, COVID happened, and that didn't turn out to be necessary (RIP).

¹ He was not a Mustachian at all, so this wasn't a real retirement for him. Though he did "downshift" into a non-management position in his next job.

[FIRE 20/20]

I apologize in advance if I missed a discussion of legal responsibility (I just skimmed the thread).  I have seen a lot of comments that said things like - you don't need to help, there's no obligation to help, decide what you're comfortable with, etc.  This isn't true in many U.S. states.  There are about 30 states that require by law some level of financial support to parents.  If you live in one of these states you can suffer penalties from being sued to cover expenses or even jailed if you fail to meet your legal obligation to support your parents.  The laws vary a lot between states and enforcement is spotty - in most states these laws are rarely enforced.  However, if your parents are demanding support and are the litigating type you may want to look into the laws of the states that you and/or your parents live in. 

Here's one link, but a search on "filial responsibility law" will turn up a lot more:

https://www.harborlifesettlements.com/4-ways-filial-responsibility-laws-can-affect-you/

[yachi]

I apologize in advance if I missed a discussion of legal responsibility (I just skimmed the thread).  I have seen a lot of comments that said things like - you don't need to help, there's no obligation to help, decide what you're comfortable with, etc.  This isn't true in many U.S. states.  There are about 30 states that require by law some level of financial support to parents.  If you live in one of these states you can suffer penalties from being sued to cover expenses or even jailed if you fail to meet your legal obligation to support your parents.  The laws vary a lot between states and enforcement is spotty - in most states these laws are rarely enforced.  However, if your parents are demanding support and are the litigating type you may want to look into the laws of the states that you and/or your parents live in. 

Here's one link, but a search on "filial responsibility law" will turn up a lot more:

https://www.harborlifesettlements.com/4-ways-filial-responsibility-laws-can-affect-you/

Thanks for this.  I remember it making the news because prior to the Pittas case, this law was rarely used in PA.  I was remembering the details as a transfer occurred from the elderly parent to the son inside the 5-year Medicaid look-back time period, and since only the son was within the country, that's why they used this law.  But I can't find that detail anymore.

[wenchsenior]

Some of these states also have laws that require support of siblings as well, which is truly insane.

I have always wondered...what kind of legal liability might a person incur if they do not live in a state with filial support laws, but the parents or siblings that aren't paying their bills DO live in such a state? Can one be sued across state lines?  Thankfully none of the states we hope to live in have the laws, but a whole bunch of dead beat relatives live in a state that does have them. 

[DadJokes]

Some of these states also have laws that require support of siblings as well, which is truly insane.

I have always wondered...what kind of legal liability might a person incur if they do not live in a state with filial support laws, but the parents or siblings that aren't paying their bills DO live in such a state? Can one be sued across state lines?  Thankfully none of the states we hope to live in have the laws, but a whole bunch of dead beat relatives live in a state that does have them.

The local estate attorney's page I found said that it's all based on the parent's state, not the child.

Nonetheless, I imagine that it's difficult to enforce and only used in cases where the parent is funneling assets to the child so that they won't be used up on medical care.

[yachi]

Some of these states also have laws that require support of siblings as well, which is truly insane.

I have always wondered...what kind of legal liability might a person incur if they do not live in a state with filial support laws, but the parents or siblings that aren't paying their bills DO live in such a state? Can one be sued across state lines?  Thankfully none of the states we hope to live in have the laws, but a whole bunch of dead beat relatives live in a state that does have them.

The local estate attorney's page I found said that it's all based on the parent's state, not the child.

Nonetheless, I imagine that it's difficult to enforce and only used in cases where the parent is funneling assets to the child so that they won't be used up on medical care.

I think you're generally right in most states, but what's happening in my particular state is quite disturbing.  In 2005, Pennsylvania supplemented the Colonia-Era laws by providing authority to the courts to determine support levels from adult relatives.  A great article is here:
https://pennstatelaw.psu.edu/_file/Pearson/RethinkingFilialSupport.pdf

Since then, this law is seeing regular use from care facilities looking to collect on accounts:
HCR v. Pittas in 2013: A business owner son had to pay his mother's expenses.  The mother had an accident and required care at a Pennsylvania facility, she recuperated and moved to Europe before the bills were paid.  The business owner son had to pay even while a medicaid application was being processed.

Eori v. Eori in 2014, one of three siblings sued the other two because he was providing support for their mother and the other two were not. The court ruled that the other two siblings were accountable for their mother’s support under the law.

And maybe more relevant to your situation Melmark, Inc. v. Schutt, et al., in 2019, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court held that Pennsylvania’s filial support statute applies to a support claim by a Pennsylvania healthcare provider against parents domiciled in New Jersey for care provided in Pennsylvania to their disabled adult son.

But court actions even predate the 2005 law:
In Savoy v. Savoy in 1994, An adult son was found liable to pay $125/month for his mother’s past health care expenses, despite evidence his own expenses exceeded income (I'm sure his spending level was not mustachian, but there also aren't enough examples to determine what the courts would do with high asset, low income situations)

Not all is bad news, the PA attorney general went after a law firm that use the law to threaten an elderly couple in order to collect on a medical debt owed by their Son:
https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-hamilton-law-group-debt-collector-watchdog-20160707-column.html

But there is a lot to hate in this law, including this:
"A child shall not be liable for the support of a parent
who abandoned the child and persisted in the
abandonment for a period of ten years during the child’s
minority."
Someone made the determination that 9 years of abandonment between the ages of 0 to 18 was not enough to sever the tie, but 10 years is...

[FLBiker]

It's been really interesting to see the range of experience and opinion here.

Personally, I don't support either my dad or my in laws.  My mom is dead, but I would have happily invited her and my dad to live with us.  That would never happen for financial reasons, as my dad is rich.  He told me last week that he has $8.2 million dollars.  He's 73 and retires next week.  His situation could change a bit as he's currently getting divorced, but they had a prenup so it shouldn't change much.

My wife's parents are both retired and seem to be OK financially.  I don't really know the details.  I've asked and offered to look at stuff for them a few times, but they're not very well organized.  Once, they brought me a proposal from an advisor, and I raised immediate concerns over the fees (and the fact that the proposal was bound in faux leather with gold writing -- that is insane).  I think they decided to go with them anyways.  If push came to shove, I'd be willing to help them out modestly financially (like a grand a month or maybe two) but that would definitely impact our FIRE plans.  For us, the reality is we've already got plenty of money for when we're post-59.5.  The trick is funding our lives before then, so if folks needed money then it would be tight.  After that, we should be fine.

And, personally, I love the idea of multi-generational houses, and would totally support that in theory, but I absolutely could not share a house with my FIL, and probably not with my MIL.  Fortunately, DW feels the same way.

[Villanelle]

Hard no for my parents.  They have far more money than they should ever need, and that in and of itself a gift to me and my sibling.

My in-laws?  It's a point of great stress for me.  They certainly have made enough money over their lifetimes to be incredibly secure.  But they lived like the average American and I worry a great deal about them needing, or "needing" help.  I would never let them be out on the street, but if I'm paying, it's for a studio apartment, not a 3 bed SFH. If I'm giving them money, they need to have sold the house and made very serious cuts.  Not "cheap ramen 3 meals a day", but serious cuts. 

That would not go over well, and I worry about friction between me and DH who is more or less on board in theory, but may have a different opinion when/if it becomes reality.  And to be fair, it wouldn't go over well for me either if, as an adult, someone came in and said they needed to say all my financial statements, that I needed to get rid of all credit cards, that I had to sell my house, that I needed to apply for all senior and low-income assistance programs, etc.   And if that ask is too big, she would have every right to say no.  But those will [hopefully] be the terms of her getting to also spend some of my money.  If she doesn't like the bargain, she doesn't have to take it. 

MIL has recently gotten a reverse mortgage.  That may ease things, but I don't know the terms or what to make of it. 

[Anon-E-Mouze]

My father and stepmother (aged 84 and 88) are very comfortable financially and do not need any financial assistance. My dad occasionally asks me some financial questions (I work in capital markets) but I also ask him questions (he has some great spreadsheets!), and their standard of living (Fat FIRE) is about what we hope for so his budget is of interest to me.

My FIL has been very financially irresponsible in his life (went bankrupt twice, frequently failed to pay required family support, and had to work until his late 70s), so he's not going to get any support from us. Thankfully, he remarried a few years ago (spouse #3) to a great woman who was financially more secure than he is, so there isn't much to worry about.

My MIL is super-frugal and needs to be because she has a very limited income. She wasn't able to work full-time due to a catastrophic brain injury when she was in her 30s, and so that significantly limited her earning potential. Over the past 10 years, we have provided some regular monthly assistance by paying one of her modest, recurring expenses. For about 4 years, when she lived several hours north of the city and needed a car, we paid about 3/4 of her car lease after her last car (our old car, which we gave to her) died. When she moved back to the city into an apartment and stopped driving, we started covering the cost of a weekly fresh fruit/veggie/groceries basket (about $160 per month). Recently, we told her that we will pick up any rent increase on her apartment for a few years, and then will reassess that situation. (For example, if the rent increases are too significant, she might have to accept that she needs to move into something smaller than her 2 BR apartment but, realistically, downsizing likely wouldn't be a big saving because the rent on her current 2 BR is rent-controlled.) So far that increased cost hasn't materialized, due to the pandemic, but I expect we might see an increase in 2022 (probably in the range of $50-80 per month).

We also occasionally give moderately high-value gifts (things or experiences), but she has no expectation that this will happen and never asks for such things. For example, our Christmas present to her a few years ago was a weekend trip to a theatre festival with us.

[Villanelle]

My father and stepmother (aged 84 and 88) are very comfortable financially and do not need any financial assistance. My dad occasionally asks me some financial questions (I work in capital markets) but I also ask him questions (he has some great spreadsheets!), and their standard of living (Fat FIRE) is about what we hope for so his budget is of interest to me.

My FIL has been very financially irresponsible in his life (went bankrupt twice, frequently failed to pay required family support, and had to work until his late 70s), so he's not going to get any support from us. Thankfully, he remarried a few years ago (spouse #3) to a great woman who was financially more secure than he is, so there isn't much to worry about.

My MIL is super-frugal and needs to be because she has a very limited income. She wasn't able to work full-time due to a catastrophic brain injury when she was in her 30s, and so that significantly limited her earning potential. Over the past 10 years, we have provided some regular monthly assistance by paying one of her modest, recurring expenses. For about 4 years, when she lived several hours north of the city and needed a car, we paid about 3/4 of her car lease after her last car (our old car, which we gave to her) died. When she moved back to the city into an apartment and stopped driving, we started covering the cost of a weekly fresh fruit/veggie/groceries basket (about $160 per month). Recently, we told her that we will pick up any rent increase on her apartment for a few years, and then will reassess that situation. (For example, if the rent increases are too significant, she might have to accept that she needs to move into something smaller than her 2 BR apartment but, realistically, downsizing likely wouldn't be a big saving because the rent on her current 2 BR is rent-controlled.) So far that increased cost hasn't materialized, due to the pandemic, but I expect we might see an increase in 2022 (probably in the range of $50-80 per month).

We also occasionally give moderately high-value gifts (things or experiences), but she has no expectation that this will happen and never asks for such things. For example, our Christmas present to her a few years ago was a weekend trip to a theatre festival with us.

I think this can be a really good way to give help without much strife from either end.  While I won't be willing to give MIL regular funding unless she meets my reform-requirement, I would absolutely funnel money to her in the form of gifts, as long as there is no *expectation* from her.  A $500 grocery store  or gas gift card, and perhaps some more frivolous items as well.  That sort of thing is help I would be willing to give, likely because it would be on my terms and because it presumably wouldn't be expected.