Do you support your parents financially?

[anni]

My mom is pretty bummed out today because I told her I don't know if or when I'm moving "back home" (to my hometown). I figure I will end up moving closer to my parents one day, but I have no idea when (which I think is fine for my age). We don't talk about it, but I think my parents are expecting a stable financial support system from me when they're older, too. When I briefly shared my FIRE dream years ago while I was still in college, they were actually pretty offended that I wouldn't be working to support them. They're getting close to SS age but I have no idea if they have any meaningful retirement savings.

I realize it is pretty personal, but I'm curious if anyone here a little older and wiser than me has experience taking care of elderly parents. I'm a first generation grad, the only educated one of my siblings, and I think I make more now than my parents combined, so I feel like I should help them if they need it. But I don't know the appropriate way to find out what, exactly, they need, and we don't have a financial advisor or anyone like that who I could sit down with them and talk about things with. I think this is one of my biggest anxieties when I plan for my future. I don't worry about future children, I worry about my aging parents.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I'll share my situation. My parents are currently 68 & 70, and in great physical condition. They have a paid off house, no debt & a very small retirement portfolio that they monitor closely, with the help of a modestly priced financial advisor. They live within their means, although sometimes they make financial decisions I don't always agree with. But, that's their call, they are able adults.

On the other hand, my husband & I are very high earners, living in a HCOL. I make maybe 10x what anyone else in my family makes. So, the gap is pretty big, and we help out a lot, voluntarily, for fun splurges. We typically associate this with a milestone & cover all expenses. For my mom's 60th birthday, we did a blowout trip with myself, my sister & my mom to Las Vegas. For my dad's 70th birthday, we're taking my parents to Hawaii with us. We also buy more generous Father's Day/Mother's Day gifts than we normally would, and tie them to an experience, if possible. These are in no way expected. They come to visit a lot, and we cover all of their travel costs (we don't live near each other.)

My parents have long term care insurance, and a clear plan of what they want to happen. My dad sends us a financial review of their assets every year, so we'll know where everything is, should we need it (if they both die/become incapacitated.)

We have no plans to help out my parents financially in their retirement, but would be open to things like the above, or to increase their quality of life as needed. Example, if they could afford room X at a long term care facility, but a much nicer one was available at a higher price, we'd cover things like that. They've planned as well as they could on a small income, and we have the means to help out. Emotionally, I plan to be available to help & spend time with them as much as possible. I'd like to FIRE in a couple of years, and more time with my aging parents is definitely part of the reasoning.

[Metalcat]

I don't anymore.

I always expected to support my ill mother, but when I tried to, our values and priorities clashed so badly we almost ended up permanently damaging our relationship.

Your parent's level of entitlement sounds downright offensive to me. That's not a reasonable expectation to put on an adult child unless you come from a background where that is the cultural norm and all parents expect it. Even then, you would be well within your right to reject cultural norms if you wanted to.

Is financially supporting your parents something you always planned on and expected to do? Or is this coming as a surprise for you?

Regardless, you need to determine what YOU are comfortable with.

[mozar]

We don't talk about it, but I think my parents are expecting a stable financial support system from me when they're older, too.

If this is their expectation than you need to talk about it. Are they expecting one off expenses, monthly payments, trips to the doctor? Then you can decide what you are willing to give as per Malcat's comment.

[Blue Skies]

We don't, but our parents don't expect us to either. 

DH's parents seem to be fairly comfortable, though I have no idea of the specifics.  They have LTC insurance and between pension and ss seem to get along just fine. 

My parents have a very small retirement account, but live in a LCOL area in a paid off house.  I worry that once one of them passes the other will struggle without the second ss income, but there isn't much to be done about that at this point.  They already live fairly frugally. 

I don't foresee any of them needing our financial assistance until one of them is single, and hopefully not even then.  At that point (hopefully well in the future) we would have to assess the situation and decide whether we will help with $ or by letting them move in with us.  At this point I am glad to be able to put off thinking about it.

[Duke03]

My mom will make little comments here and there and try to guilt me into things...but it's been this way my entire life.  I've set clear boundaries since I was 20 that it isn't a kid's job to take care of the parent.  She will comment and try to get me to tell her how much I make or what things cost that I have, but I know it's just a way for her to justify guilting me into doing things for her.  Luckily I come from a big family so even though her guilt doesn't work on me it does work on some of my siblings.  It's their life and money and they can do what they want, but we all know how she is.  Granted I know I'm not the favorite, but I'm also ok with that.  I'll be damned if my children have to go without something so I can give money to a 70yr old adult who has had their entire life to plan for their financial well being.

[jeromedawg]

Definitely not my parents - they are well-off and don't need our financial help. My in-laws, on the other hand, we have helped out both time and money wise. They don't expect it but my wife feels bad for them. Coupled with the fact that in Asian culture it's customary for kids to take care of their elderly parents, it's just kind of one of the unspoken 'expectations'

My wife and her brother both contributed a pretty good amount of money into a joint savings account that they're keeping on 'stand-by' for the day that it's needed to care for my in-laws. They're in their mid-70s now and retired from running a 24x7 restaurant business a couple years ago. They're living in a single family home they took a mortgage out on that they refinanced under a balloon payment/shared appreciation loan with the trade-off that their interest rate is very low and folds in insurance and property tax. They have been renting out the spare rooms in their home for a number of years now to help offset the costs. As long as they keep renting both rooms, their SS payments should be able to cover the remainder they owe on their mortgage and general cost of living without depleting their stash. But we don't know how long they'll be physically able and independent on their own before potentially needing some kind of assisted help or care.

What we may suggest is having them sell their home and at least to move closer to wherever we are. We don't live too far from a stock cooperative 55 and older community, which I think might be the next best option even if they may not be fond of it. We actually visited this community years ago with them and they hated the idea of it but there are only so many options if you have so much money...

[habanero]

No. No need to. They are not even close to spending their pensions which are nothing spectacular. They have no debts and public health care. Mom is a mistress of frugality by nature and has been running their finances for decades. By need in the earlier years and by nature later. Some years ago I borrowed their car and noticed it was almost out of gas so I filled it up completely. Dad got quite upset when he noticed, despite me making vastly more money than they ever did combined. Took that as a hint.

[tygertygertyger]

My parents are divorced and my dad is remarried. He has a pension and I don't worry about him financially. If anything happens to his wife, I think he'll move back to where my siblings and I live, and we'll be in a position where he'll need a lot of emotional support, but not $$ related.

My mom, on the other hand, doesn't have much in the way of retirement savings and no pension to speak of. She is quite frugal and money conscious though, and really made clear even while we were growing up that we have no obligations to help out family members financially.

Mom: If X relative asks you for a loan and you have the money, do you have to loan it to them?
Me, teenager: Um... no?
Mom: That's right! You are under no obligation to loan or give money to family, though of course, if you want to and have the money, you can. 

My brother and I do take on some expenses for my mom that we want to - mostly meals out pre-covid, or experiences. For example, we bought her a plane ticket to visit her friends when a good friend of hers died and she was wavering on going to the funeral. But she's a tough lady so we had to couch it in terms of an early birthday present. I'll be happy to help my mom out in the future, but I also know she really won't want to need any help.

[SunnyDays]

Your parents actually voiced that they thought you should work to support them?  Wow, that is really entitled. 

I made more than both my parents combined when I started my career job and they never had any expectation that I would give them anything for any reason.  Of course I did, some larger items that they would never have bought for themselves and I loaned them some money for a car (so they could avoid a loan) which they paid back.  They were always careful with their money and as they got older, had more than enough, but if they hadn’t, I would have been fine with helping out with basics and some smaller luxuries, but would not have supported an extravagant lifestyle.  Now, my mom is gone and my dad gives ME money, lol.  I keep telling him I don’t need it, which I’m sure he knows even though we’ve never talked numbers, but I think he’s trying to give me extra now, because I’m the one who’s there for him, and my sister gets half in the will.  Unless parents would actually suffer without their kids’ help, I don’t think they should be obligated to support them in any way.

[iluvzbeach]

I have “helped” one half of my incredibly irresponsible parental units (dad & stepmom) way more than I ever wanted to, or should have. My advice to you: establish VERY clear boundaries as to what you are and are not willing to do, and stick with it. Never discuss your financial position with them. Ever. If you allow them to think you can and will support them, they will not plan & prepare for their own financial future and will expect you to support or subsidize them. Just as parents should never allow their adult children to be freeloaders, you should not permit the same of your parents. This is my opinion, based on my own experience. You may decide differently. It is your choice, but it’s a hard choice to change the rules on midway through the game. Best of luck!

[better late]

Is there anything in your history that would make them think this had been agreed upon?
Did they put you through college with their savings or anything like that where they would have assumed you would reciprocate?

[MudPuppy]

I do some small things for my father. Mostly I do physical care for my father and his wife, most importantly doctor visits and making their home accessible for their medical devices.

I spent a lot of money that I frankly didn’t really have supporting my mother in my early 20s for the sake of a minor sibling who depended on her. Our already strained relationship crumbled and has never really recovered.

[Frankies Girl]

What would happen if you asked them their plans for their future? If they're planning on retiring and how they will support themselves?

If they tell you that's none of your business, you can at least tell them that you're not asking to pry, but so that you can make sure you are not somehow considered a part of their support plans without knowing that fact because they are making assumptions that you'll just know what to do without really being told anything. If they are intending on you providing either money/physical presence, it makes sense for you to be informed at the very least that they are considering you (and your siblings) part of their retirement plans so you can see how that meshes with YOUR plans.

This is regardless of whether you do or do not plan yourself to provide actual $ or physical support (by moving in together/caretaking) in their old age.

Communication and plain speaking solves many of these types of situations. I know it's a sad fact that many people believe that if you love someone, they should just know - and be able to mind read their deepest needs and desires and not make them state them. But honestly, that's not how caring, responsible people should act with each other. Use your words. Talk to them and get it all out in the open and then use that information to form your plans, make compromises, or enforce firm & healthy boundaries as needed.

[Dave1442397]

My parents have a paid-off house, and my father has a decent pension. They also get an old-age pension from the Government, but I'm not sure how much that is.

We treat them to nice trips when they come to visit, and don't expect them to pay for anything while they're here. My dad will try to grab the check when we go out to eat, but I can usually beat him to it by talking to the server before we eat :) I've bought some new appliances for them when we visit, if I see that something really needs replacing, but they have never asked for, or needed, any financial help. If they really needed money, they could sell the house for at least 700k Euros.

My mother-in-law has a paid-off condo, and gets $3k/month between Social Security and a small pension. She's been going crazy at the ATM for the past few months, to the point where we had to ask if it was really she who was taking out all that cash. I thought maybe her card info had been skimmed. We think she's 'lending' money to friends, and also spending a lot at the Casinos. She has absolutely no concept of budgeting, or keeping track of spending. She was shocked when we told her she had withdrawn $5300 in cash in January, apart from her other bills. Oh well, at this rate the cash will be gone at the end of the year, and she has another $90k or so in IRAs. By the time she gets through all that, she'll be 96, so maybe she'll slow down a bit :)

We do a lot of grocery shopping for her, but it doesn't add up to all that much. She doesn't want to travel anymore, just likes to go eat at local restaurants.

[draco44]

I agree with those suggesting that no adult child is automatically required to help their parents financially. Cultural expectations can be a big factor but if nothing's ever been explicitly stated, or even if it has but you haven't agreed to anything, you have no obligations here. But regardless of how much if any help you are willing to provide, it would be wise to for you to speak to your parents and get clarity on what their expectations are.

You don't have to agree with whatever they have in mind but knowing will help you plan for future, either by saving more on their behalf or by preparing to stand by your boundaries of not helping or providing limited help. Talking about this now may also help your parents plan realistically for their own future and/or give you an out if they make bad decisions and then try to guilt you into giving help you don't want to. The last thing you want is for them to blow all their money now assuming they can run to you later to save them from destitution. Even if you are able to help them financially at that point, I'd imagine you'd feel at least somewhat coerced and that that would negatively impact your emotional relationship with your parents. That connection is something money can't buy. But money problems can hurt it.

If they really do have zero retirement savings because they are assuming YOU are their retirement account, you should dispel that notion as soon as possible to give them a chance to save at least something while there's still time. The more they are positioned to support themselves in old age, the better it is for you, them, and your relationship.

[Gone_Hiking]

Dear OP, I will second (and third) suggestions to discuss expectations with your parents.

DH and I support my MIL.  First generation college grads as well.  A few months after we married, FIL passed away and left his widow penniless.  No savings, no money to bury him, perhaps five thousand dollars in home equity after 30 years of paying mortgage and repeated cash-out refinancing instances.  We helped out with funeral costs and, after a few years, when she retired, started sending her a few hundred dollars a month to supplement her meager social security payment.  It's been going on for almost two decades and I don't see it ending any time soon.  I encouraged DH to discuss her needs for supplemental checks from us, but he hasn't mustered the courage to ask her openly about her finances. 

MIL tries to get more money from us, sometimes trying to guilt DH into it, and sometimes she talks directly to me.  Recently she's been trying to get DH to send her more money because she wants to make a bigger purchase.  DH may feel guilty about not sending her more, but I don't.  The way I see it, she is an adult and she should be able to budget.

Which brings me back to you and your parents.  You don't seem to have a significant other that could serve as the sanity check.  Which is why the discussion with parents is important.  Until it's out in the open, until you know what they expect and you explicitly state your boundaries, there always will be innuendos on their side and feeling guilty on yours.   Best of luck - I feel for you. 

[tooqk4u22]

Ugh. DW and I both have divorced parents and are of varying degrees of financial wrecks, but MIL is absolute worse of the bunch and the one we are most sympathetic toward.   She is and has been on a fixed income and yet she spends more than she has.  I am not talking Gucci, its compulsion spending....think dollar store and catalogs that prey on people with no or bad credit.   We haven't taken care of her mostly bc we expect some individual accountability and action, but that said we have loaned (hahaha) and forgiven monies to get her current on mortgage and condo dues, and have bought groceries.   

We also have discussed (seems like a convo every few years) where we buy a place for her to rent at good rate (basically we get zero return).   But it then leads to her not liking the options, or accusing us of wanting the tax benefits over her (she doesn't pay taxes),  or her being hung up on the pride of ownership she has in the existing place she owns but can't afford.   

Sweetest most caring person on earth but a complete financial train wreck.  Def regular topic of discussion and DW has evolved such that I am starting to look like the softy, funny bc nobody would put me on that side over her.   

I guess there is some level of help we would give but consciously or subconsciously is dependent on taking some action to right the ship....said otherwise I am not willing to subsidize spending and too much house just bc.   

Ugh!

[Sandi_k]

Yes. I help my mom, because she was a single mom with three kids in the 1970's. When she remarried, my stepdad had 4 kids of his own. She always struggled with money, but she did the best she could.

My older sister has a now-retired, low-income spouse. My brother has a wife and three kids. We are DINKs.

Mom is now widowed. She gets ~ $20k per year in Social Security, in CA. The house is paid off due to life insurance when my stepdad passed away.

I decided years ago that I'd be stressed out with panic requests, so set up a joint account, to which I've deposited funds every month. She has used those funds to fix a roof leak, repaint her house trim, assist my sister when her car was totaled, to buy a new car for herself once her car became older, as well as larger expenses - like property taxes.

So yeah, I assist. And I'm OK with that.

[Metalcat]

I disagree with everyone who is recommending that you first find out what your parents expect.

I FIRMLY believe that you should look internally, decide what YOU are okay with first, and set an impenetrable boundary that you will never cross that line of support.

What exactly are you willing to subsidize? What level of need would they have to demonstrate for you to provide help. What does that help look like? How do you handle it if they waste that help and accrue debt while you are subsidizing them, or if they aren't willing to downsize if their house becomes unmanageable physically and/or financially.

Work out every scenario where you think they might ask for money and decide exactly where you think your limits are, and I say "think" for a reason, because entitled parents like yours are guaranteed to test those limits at some point.

If you start by asking them what they expect, then they set the goal posts and you will be stuck reacting from there.
Don't go in blind, be prepared by knowing what you would be comfortable with, and then see where their expectations are, where these expectations came from, and then see what you feel comfortable with.

Your parents don't get to dictate how you spend your money.
Period.

[Sibley]

What Malcat said.

I'm in the middle of this. My dad is retiring soon, they just put the house on the market yesterday, and they're going to move closer to me. I'm going there later today for the weekend. My parents don't need money right now - they need practical assistance. Sure, I'll probably buy boxes or whatever, but it's peanuts.

My goal is that they will have a lifestyle they can afford. I and my sister will help them achieve that. We will help them with navigating social programs they may be eligible for. We will help them with the physical stuff they can't manage. But I don't have any plans to provide gobs of money.

[honeybbq]

Absolutely not. I was told at 17 I was on my own. And my parents said to park them in a nursing home when it is time. So on both ends the ties are/were cut and expectations were set.

That said, it's a very cultural thing to take care of one's parents and can be the expectation depending on your upbringing and culture.

It may be hard to shift the tide at this late venture. But if you are getting hints of this and are uncomfortable with it - yes, have the discussion now to clear the air. And was mentioned- you have no responsibility but you have to decide what you can and will live with.

[KathrinS]

No, my mother is far wealthier than I am, and won't ever need any help. In our family, we have a tradition of the older generations helping the younger generations. My grandmother will gift my mother money during the holidays, and my mother will gift me some. Not large amounts, just a little bit for fun. But it's nice to know that the older generations can take care of themselves financially. It feels like each generation is building on the successes of the past one.

My dad is in a far worse position (parents divorced). He is expecting to cash in 'both ways' - i.e. he will get an inheritance from his family, and also rely on me if it's not enough. I'm not sure how to handle that yet, as his finances are 100% his choice and he had all the opportunities in the world to be successful. It's many years off though, as he is still working and the grandparents' cash will likely be enough for about 10-20 years.

[SimpleCycle]

This depends so much on the individual relationships.  And your situation (being substantially better off than your parents) makes it complicated and fraught with emotions on all sides.   I think the thread might go in a more productive direction if you clarified what you think their expectations are and what specifically worries you.

I help my mother logistically with financial matters, but do not provide financial support because she hasn't needed it.  She is a widow and I have helped her figure things out, especially related to dad's passing, that have helped her be better off financially.  My goal in providing the logistical support was always to ensure mom was self-supporting and able to live her desired lifestyle within reason (keep her house rather than move to senior housing, for example).  I was only 29 and in grad school when dad got sick and passed away, so me providing financial support wasn't really on the table when their need was greatest.  I absolutely would have if I could have though.

I find that it's a very Upper Middle Class American value to not expect to take care of your parents and to look down on parents who need financial support.  In many cultures, including many working class and lower American cultures, helping your parents is variously expected, something you can be proud of doing, and something that can burden the younger generation, all at the same time.  A lot depends on how much better off you are than your parents, and how acute their needs are - I can't imagine not supporting my mother in some way if she was living in poverty and I was making six figures.  My parents enabled my success in many ways, and I would not overlook the importance of that when thinking about supporting them in various ways.

But I think the reality is most people do not cut a monthly check to their parents to enable their chosen lifestyle.  Instead they provide practical support as it is needed, which may include financial support.  And what financial support looks like can vary quite a bit too.  For example, we bought DW's grandmother a hearing aid because Medicare didn't cover it.  And DW's parents navigated Medicaid spend-down when her grandmother needed Long Term Care.  But no one is inflating their lifestyle based on support from the younger generation.

When you say they are "expecting a stable financial support system from you", it could mean they expect a certain amount of practical and financial support, or it could mean they expect for you to share your wealth with them to enable a higher standard of living.  The first to me is not "entitlement", the second is.  You certainly don't have to provide either if you don't want to, but I don't think your parents are necessarily BAD PEOPLE for having some expectation of support like some people have implied upthread.

[Metalcat]

Not bad people, but they do sound like entitled people.

I adore my parents, but they're seriously entitled.

[Zamboni]

Hi Anni, good luck navigating that with your parents. It's especially hard if you don't have children, I think, because children can be a convenient excuse for not giving parents money.

I have helped each parent a little bit voluntarily. Took Mom on an all expenses paid vacation to England and France, for example, because I knew she would appreciate it as an avid absorber of the Classics, and mostly because I knew she would never ever go on her own. Since then my brother paid for her to visit Ireland with my nephew (pretty much as his chaperone, how fun for him, lol!)

For my Dad I have bought some meals, some furniture, and offered plane trips (plans that go nixed due to COVID).

But, in terms of big picture day-to-day living expenses, right now I've got nothing. I'm not big on never ending recurring expenses that I can't control.

My Mom gave me the "I'm going to run out of money soon, so you will need to help me" speech years ago. I replied that I was sorry she was running out of money, but that I have to take care of my own children and my own retirement plans first, and that isn't going to leave any extra money for her. That was about a decade ago. Guess what? She figured it out. I wouldn't let her starve, but she needs to think she has no cushion so she doesn't give too much of her money away counting on me to back fill. I don't feel sorry for her at all, either. She made the decision to retire early on a very low income almost twenty years ago when she was still perfectly able bodied. If she wanted a nicer retirement, then she had the opportunity to work longer and save for herself.

My Dad's wife drops hints on the regular, which I promptly ignore. They're spendypants and have lived a fell-fledged spendypants life, so they can't retire. That's not my fault. When I visited and my Dad's favorite recliner had broken, we drove my rental pick up over to the store and I bought him a new one "for his birthday." It was an $800 birthday present, but he sits (and naps) in it pretty much everyday, so that's cool. Doesn't mean they can retire. Every time I go there I see their giant collection of "little stuff" they continue to buy, and they spend something like $200 a month on bird seed for the wild birds to eat in their yard. When it comes to random pointless spending like that, I've got nothing.

My advice is to just put up a boundary. If they ask for money directly, say "I'm sorry, but that's just not going to work for me." Do not set up an expectation for any sort of regular money transfer unless you are fully prepared to do it indefinitely, and in the face of them not always spending it wisely.

[Gardencat]

I would like to suggest that you bring in some expert support for yourself before you try to figure out if/whether/how to plan for any parental support.
Find a nice therapist (I had a very helpful clinical social worker as a therapist) and discuss all your fears and your various entanglements with your family. You are still young and you will benefit from talking over your concerns with someone who has more life experience and is looking out for you.

Also, you should meet with a fee-only financial planner who will help you nail down a plan for you for saving and investing in line with your goals. If your work has an employee assistance program you can likely even get some free sessions with both types of professionals.

I didn’t feel like I could make life decisions counter to my mom’s expectations until well into my 30s so I know what helped me. I did have a mental expectation that I might need to supplement her finances (which didn’t end up happening) but she actually at one point wanted my husband and I to live in her house with her - in my old bedroom. She declined my husband’s offer to live with us, of course. So you can see what I was dealing with. So put your own mask on first, is my advice.

[rmorris50]

Try not to worry. I use to worry incessantly about my poor, destitute mother. I ended up learning I can’t change her, and I had to decide how I would help her if needed. Right now I pay some bills for her, and she knows there is open ended offer to move into my spare bedroom. She has yet to take me up on it.

I owe her a roof over her head and food, help with bills and meds, that sort of thing. But I stopped worrying a long time ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mistymoney]

My mom is pretty bummed out today because I told her I don't know if or when I'm moving "back home" (to my hometown). I figure I will end up moving closer to my parents one day, but I have no idea when (which I think is fine for my age). We don't talk about it, but I think my parents are expecting a stable financial support system from me when they're older, too. When I briefly shared my FIRE dream years ago while I was still in college, they were actually pretty offended that I wouldn't be working to support them. They're getting close to SS age but I have no idea if they have any meaningful retirement savings.

I realize it is pretty personal, but I'm curious if anyone here a little older and wiser than me has experience taking care of elderly parents. I'm a first generation grad, the only educated one of my siblings, and I think I make more now than my parents combined, so I feel like I should help them if they need it. But I don't know the appropriate way to find out what, exactly, they need, and we don't have a financial advisor or anyone like that who I could sit down with them and talk about things with. I think this is one of my biggest anxieties when I plan for my future. I don't worry about future children, I worry about my aging parents.

have there been any other clues about your parents bein narcissistic?

My advice is to stay far away. Never move back for that.

[YummyRaisins]

I don't have experience with covering expenses for retired parents, yet. It is fast approaching. I share some of the same concerns you do, although in my case there hasn't ever been a clear expectation that financial support is expected. At least no until very recently.

My parents separated late in life and recently sold their house, which should have more than covered their debts. I'm pretty sure my father has found his way back into debt via a gambling habit he's always tried to hide (unsuccessfully). It doesn't help that the family he lives with shares all the same vices.

Both currently live with family members. My mom is probably OK and even if she wasn't I would be willing (with buy in from siblings) to provide practical and, if needed, financial aid. She's at least attempted to be financially responsible.

My dad's gambling, and his lying about it, makes me unwilling to help him. He's asked for money once so far for dental work, but I turned him down since I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been used for that. I did offer help going over his finances while he's still working, but I haven't heard anything since.

I need to have a discussion with my siblings about what we think our responsibilities are, however our relationship hasn't been the greatest for quite a while and has only begun to improve recently.

MIL is in good shape, although doesn't want to give us an details. Paid off house, some savings, and SS should be plenty for her.

[Beach_Stache]

I think your financial situation is exactly why there are "millionaire next door" types, that people don't know about.  In our current situation we are doing very well, have a good stache and are on our way to FI, but probably won't RE unless we don't enjoy our jobs anymore.  My parents are retired (Dad still works 8 hours/week at a cushy job to keep him busy - as he gets in trouble when he has no obligations), house paid off, they have a decent stache (not as big as ours) but have a pension that covers the both of them.  So they are not spending their retirement and pension and SS covers their lifestyle, so their savings should just go up.  We talk openly about money and this has helped me get educated on the subject and see the light early, help educate my parents better (probably saved them $100k over the last 7 years in needless fees from old retirement accounts) as well as my sisters.  Between my side of the family, we all know what we're worth, talk openly about money, problems and solutions, I essentially help manage my Mom's accounts b/c my Dad can be impulsive, but whatever, they have enough that it really shouldn't matter much.

DW on the other hand has her Family, 1 brother who is actually FIRE, but frugal to the extreme where it hurts their families relationship.  Other brother who spends everything and probably not well off financially, just everything on credit, living the typical American lifestyle, then my Mother in Law who will answer direction questions like "how is your retirement account doing" with "Fine", or "My retirement plan is to walk off into the woods" or whatever.  I've offered help but I think she believes this is a sign of weakness and doesn't follow up, so I leave it alone. 

Long story short, I have a much better relationship w/my family b/c we can talk openly, and I'm not worried about my parents or sisters financially.  It takes a huge weight off of my shoulders, and nobody wants to watch their family struggle as they age, especially when they are in need.  DW's Father recently passed and everything was about the cost of care and things like that and it took a big strain on the family. 

My point is that if your parents are expecting things of you then you may eventually grow to resent them b/c of it.  The writing is on the wall that my Mother in Law will need help one day financially, and I am not happy about that b/c she retired before she should have, she doesn't save or plan, she lives paycheck to paycheck off of her pension, she is a closed book regarding her finances and I see the writing on the wall that it's going to come back to bite her. 

IMO, I would try to educate your parents about saving, retirement, spending w/in their needs, etc.  I would also not talk to your family about your salary, savings, net worth, etc. as they will hold it against you like "my rich daughter", when they seem to not know much about finances if they are reliant on you.  If you have extra and want to spend on them then that's fine, I see others message about taking their family on vacations, and that's awesome if you enjoy them and they don't expect it as a hand out, but if you are obligated to pay for their lifestyle then I know it would make me bitter.  We used to help out my brother in law early when he was young as he had a child and not much money, so we all chipped in a bit, then he bought a huge TV for a lot of money and a nicer couch than mine and on credit, and at that point we stopped making those payments b/c he was just spending whatever money came in.

I would continue to try to educate your parents, analyze their financial situation, ask "how are you going to pay for that", don't put their retirement strategy in the dark.  Maybe they will need to move to FL or someplace specific for older people on a fixed income, maybe they move in w/you one day if you enjoy their company.  But I imagine nothing makes a relationship worse than having someone financially dependent on you and you don't want that to be the case.

My relationship w/my family is so much better b/c I don't have to worry about them, both my sisters and parents, and I know when they age it will be tough, but certainly much easier since they have their financial act together.

[Fishindude]

My siblings and I picked up the $$ gaps Mom couldn't cover with what she had.   
Now my wife and I are subsidizing her Mom for the things her minimal income won't cover; bought her a cheap car, put her on our phone plan, etc.

In my mind, this is just one of those things you do if you can, without jeopardizing your own stability.

[Metalcat]

My siblings and I picked up the $$ gaps Mom couldn't cover with what she had.   
Now my wife and I are subsidizing her Mom for the things her minimal income won't cover; bought her a cheap car, put her on our phone plan, etc.

In my mind, this is just one of those things you do if you can, without jeopardizing your own stability.

*If* you have the appropriate relationship with your parents.

Not everyone has a healthy enough dynamic with their parents to be able to do this in a way that isn't harmful.

[iris lily]

We don't talk about it, but I think my parents are expecting a stable financial support system from me when they're older, too.

If this is their expectation than you need to talk about it. Are they expecting one off expenses, monthly payments, trips to the doctor? Then you can decide what you are willing to give as per Malcat's comment.

Exactly. OP,  I think you are gathering your thoughts getting ready to talk to your parents which is why you started this thread. Good for you.

I agree that the expectation of your Parents is not realistic. This doesn’t hold true for families of other cultures, primarily I’m taking out the Asian cultures. Those expectations for support of the elderly are quite different.

[Psychstache]

I most of the advice about determining your expectations and then having a frank discussion with your parents is generally the way to go. If you happen to have any friends that are:

A) Married; and
B) one was born and raised in America and the other is a 1st or 2nd generation immigrant from a non-European background

It would be very valuable to hear about their expectations and experiences related to filial support. In many cases, there has had to be significant communication and negotiation around this topic.

[Omy]

We have one parent who is in very good financial shape and will probably not require anything from us. We have another parent who is very frugal and lives simply but needs occasional help when big expenses pop up or the house needs modifications to allow her to continue living independently. These expenses average less than $1000/year so it hasn't been a big deal. I used to worry that we needed a large stache to support parents, but so far this has not been the case.

[E.T.]

I second the suggestion to seek counseling to help sort out what you want your boundaries to be before talking to your parents. I did that when figuring out how to plan how much my spouse and I would be willing to support relatives. That being said it's tough to hold those boundaries, especially if your choices go against your cultural background. It really helps to decide what you're willing to give before emergencies come up.

[Metalcat]

I second the suggestion to seek counseling to help sort out what you want your boundaries to be before talking to your parents. I did that when figuring out how to plan how much my spouse and I would be willing to support relatives. That being said it's tough to hold those boundaries, especially if your choices go against your cultural background. It really helps to decide what you're willing to give before emergencies come up.

Thirded on seeking counselling if you have any challenge determining what your boundaries should be.

It being your parents can create a ton of difficult to navigate internal emotional conflict.

[Steeze]

My parents will be living on SS only. They do not EXPECT me to do anything for them. At most they have suggested they will move into the other side of our hypothetical duplex, or park their hypothetical RV in our driveway. I believe in the “put in your own mask first” policy. After I am FI my next priority is making sure my son has a college fund and if possible a down payment on a home some day. If I continue to build wealth then I will support my parents financially some.

[debbie does duncan]

I do not believe this is about your giving your parents $$. I believe this is about learning to step out of the FOG. Fear Obligation and Guilt. You owe your parents nothing as they are adults who can take care of themselves bc they are adults. Would a simple...Sorry Mom  but it is not my job to cover all your bad choices ... work for you? Sending you a link to my fav toolbox that helped me deal with emotionally immature adults that cannot deal with their own choices. 

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1

[SimpleCycle]

Family dynamics are all different, and I think a lot of people in this thread, myself included, are generalizing our own experience to be THE answer.  Which isn't a bad thing since OP asked for different experiences, but I think the most likely scenario is we give @anni some things to think about and her answer follows her own path.

I do agree that a big part of healthy family dynamics (or keeping yourself afloat in unhealthy family dynamics) is having good personal boundaries.  So you need to know what you are comfortable with, based on your own values, goals, emotions, etc.  But another part of having good boundaries is realizing the only person you can control in any given situation is yourself.  For me that means only giving advice when asked and recognizing that my parents can make their own decisions (good or bad).  It took me a long time to get to that place (especially because my younger sister was affected by some of their bad decisions after I left home), and some struggle, but it was a game changer in terms of our ability to relate to each other as adults.

So I agree with others to get clear on your own boundaries, and bringing in a therapist if needed.  But I'll also say that for me, setting and enforcing boundaries grew our relationship and opened up my ability to give assistance in a flexible way that works for everyone.  My mom in particular was a hot mess of obligation and expectation in my early 20s, and we've both grown since then as I've worked from my values and boundaries, and as another 15 years of life have changed both of us.

[Cassie]

I am 66 and recently divorced. I am buying a small condo within my means. I would never take money from my kids. My parents supported themselves even after my dad died and my mom’s income declined. Eventually she spent her savings because she lived to 89 but lived on her monthly income. She would accept a trip occasionally for her gifts for the year. One of us occasionally did that. The 3 of us also would take vacation to help when she went through her bouts of cancer treatments. She never expected anything and was a great mom.

My grandparents were frugal but had lost money during the depression, etc so once my grandpa died there wasn’t enough money for grandma. My parents got her in a low income senior apartment that was very nice and the 3 kids split costs for medications, etc. My grandparents had worked hard but life sometimes deals you a bad hand. So it really depends on the situation.

[achvfi]

100% you need to establish boundaries. If its troubling you, you need to have very frank conversations, no holds barred.

When I started my career I supported my parents and siblings for couple of years with a set monthly payments, I paid off their debts and set them up to support themselves. I dont support them anymore unless there is real emergency.

Its important to know who the people you are supporting are. My parents are responsible people that needed monetary support but also needed planning, direction and education. If they are not responsible I would have left them to their devices.

[Catbert]

My parents didn't need any assistance.  Mom died in her 50s and Dad did ok on SS, a small pension, savings and a paid off house.  Not an extravagant retirement but the one he planned for.

My in-laws did ok when they were both alive.  Once FIL died MIL had...less.  But FIL was the spender so it kinda evened out.  MIL had enough to continue living in her single-wide trailer 12 miles from a small Texas town <shudder>.  While she could cover the basic monthly bills anything else was hard.  We bought her a new car when her old one died.  DH visited twice a year and worked on her endless honey-do list.  Plus I swear every visit there was some appliance or major repair that need to be purchased.  But it was his mom and we could easily afford it.  I much preferred money to her moving closer to us. 

[Mariposa]

I'm a first-generation immigrant married to a White person born in the US, and I don't really understand the culture of not supporting aging parents, or making kids be entirely self-sufficient when they're 18. We've been supporting my MIL financially for the last 5 years & will do so for the foreseeable future. We pay her rent, utilities, TV, cell, etc each month. She pays for food & whatever else she wants from her disability check; we don't micromanage. We also pay for anything that comes up, such as when she spilled coffee on her laptop a couple of years ago, and we'll probably have to replace her car at some point.

That said, I also understand what everyone is saying about boundaries. This has sometimes caused us severe stress and strained our marriage at different points, because it's not only the money. She's gone through periods where my husband has had to help her though all kinds of things, when he's had to talk to her or respond to her emails on a daily basis. Still, knowing what I know now, I think that we would have done it again. MIL struggles with mental health & substance issues & was repeatedly landing in the ICU when we stepped in. Help to the family members who need it the most.

At one point, DH called his sister and asked what help she could give, could she at least take over their mother's $35 a month cell bill? And she said none at all. This is someone with a giant house with walk-in closets that contain hundreds of outfits for her kid, and MIL has given her hundreds of hours of free childcare. I don't really understand that.

[TheFrenchCat]

Our parents aren't quite retirement age yet, but our family mostly shouldn't need financial help.  We'll definitely do stuff like helping with maintenance and doctor's visits, but I don't anticipate needing to do much financially.  I'm mostly worried about my mom.  She makes more than we do, but isn't saving much, mostly because she's still supporting my brother in his mid-20s.  So while I'd help her out, I don't want to support my brother who just doesn't want to work.  Mom and I get along well enough that she could move in with us and SS should cover the rest, provided she eventually stops paying for my brother.  I really don't know what to do if she never cuts him off.  Overall our parents don't expect anything, but they helped us launch enough that I would feel wrong not helping them if they needed it. And regardless I wouldn't let them starve or anything.  So we will definitely be working past the point where we've saved enough for our needs. 

I don't think you're going to find a one size fits all answer, but I hope one more experience helps give some more perspective.  I also don't like that your mom feels entitled to your financial support, and I really hope we never have to rely on our daughter financially. 

[minority_finance_mo]

Yes.

I share Mariposa's experience: I'm a first-generation immigrant (having moved here with my parents when I was five years old.) My parents left a fairly comfortable life in their home country to make a better life and education for my siblings and me. My dad worked 60-80 hours/week the last 20+ years, and my mom worked full time for a while until she was disabled at work. I've been supporting "the household" financially since I was in my teens, and continue to do so even after moving out. It's currently the biggest line item in my budget and I classify it under "giving." (Charity begins at home, as they say.)

I don't make any judgements on anyone else's choices with regard family support, but in my situation, I view it as a moral obligation to take care of my parents after they've spent their lives caring for me, and I'm grateful to be in the position to meet that obligation.

[elaine amj]

As an immigrant myself it is definitely interesting the differences in cultural expectations.

I wonder if part of the difference is a better social safety net in North America? As in, parents really shouldn't be able to starve between Social Security, welfare, and food banks. So a child's role can be more focused on helping parents access these social services available.

Anyway, yes - I supported both my MIL and my mother financially. But because they lived with us (not at the same time!), it really wasn't much money. And both could afford simple lives on their own and moved in more for personal care than strictly financial reasons.

My MIL lived with us for 10 years. But from DH (and his siblings)'s perspective, it was a financial positive since she regularly gave us money for groceries (more than she cost) and provided free childcare when my kids grew old enough to mostly care for themselves with her supervision. She moved on to a nursing home for a few years and has now passed away.

A couple of years after MIL moved out, my mother was going through a tighter financial time and moved in. (Not expected as she was far more well off than we are and if anything, she expected to leave us a decent inheritance). It thankfully wasn't a big deal financially though. Since we cover all major expenses, she has more than enough for her minimal personal spending and occasional groceries and lavish gifts and meals for us. We basically consider her fully a part of the family and pay for everything incl her travels with us just like we do our kids. She's now included in all my FIRE plans incl housing and everything.  (Good thing my kids are 18 and 19 now so my spending will shift from them to my mom).

I did get a bit shaken up last year when my father had a traumatic brain injury. His surgery in a private hospital (in my home country) was more expensive than I could ever dream of paying for. Thankfully a wealthy aunt stepped in. But then rehab was next. Even now, a year later, he still needs round the clock care and daily rehab.

My brother is not in a position to help so I feel like I should help shoulder some of this financial burden and started wondering if I would need to go back to work. I contacted my stepmother and offered but so far she insists they are fine financially. So for now, I have decided not to include that into my future plans (I FIREd a couple of years ago).

Sent from my VCE-AL00 using Tapatalk

[anni]

Thank you for the replies all, it's really nice to hear other perspectives! I missed these replies for the last couple days so I'm still reading through them and I'll reply individually on desktop when I can.

A couple commenters called out the particular difficulty of me being significantly better off than my parents. Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a cultural expectation that I'll take care of them financially, but it's also not unprecedented in my family... We have quite an extreme spread of wealth and hardship throughout my family and rather than people being entitled, I would instead say that there's a bias towards generosity. My parents didn't pay for my college or anything, but still, they're my parents so they definitely contributed to my success - it feels natural to want to pay them back for all the other stuff. I would feel pretty bad if I were to retire before they did, you know?

So I guess more specifically, I'd like to figure out what kinds of questions might be best to start with, maybe with a financial planner present. And if I am helping save for them, I feel like I personally need to have a more organized investing/saving plan, possibly covering any tax advantaged options for them. I saw one commenter mention insurance that could cover certain long term care expenses if needed (though, like others, my parents are currently in the school of "just take me out back and shoot me" long term care lol). That's something I've never heard of but I'm interested in specifics like that.

Hopefully they're just in better shape than I think. I'm most worried about the healthcare landscape in case either of them gets really sick. Medical expenses have been a hardship for them in the past and I can't see that getting any easier as they age.

[Metalcat]

Thank you for the replies all, it's really nice to hear other perspectives! I missed these replies for the last couple days so I'm still reading through them and I'll reply individually on desktop when I can.

A couple commenters called out the particular difficulty of me being significantly better off than my parents. Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a cultural expectation that I'll take care of them financially, but it's also not unprecedented in my family... We have quite an extreme spread of wealth and hardship throughout my family and rather than people being entitled, I would instead say that there's a bias towards generosity. My parents didn't pay for my college or anything, but still, they're my parents so they definitely contributed to my success - it feels natural to want to pay them back for all the other stuff. I would feel pretty bad if I were to retire before they did, you know?

So I guess more specifically, I'd like to figure out what kinds of questions might be best to start with, maybe with a financial planner present. And if I am helping save for them, I feel like I personally need to have a more organized investing/saving plan, possibly covering any tax advantaged options for them. I saw one commenter mention insurance that could cover certain long term care expenses if needed (though, like others, my parents are currently in the school of "just take me out back and shoot me" long term care lol). That's something I've never heard of but I'm interested in specifics like that.

Hopefully they're just in better shape than I think. I'm most worried about the healthcare landscape in case either of them gets really sick. Medical expenses have been a hardship for them in the past and I can't see that getting any easier as they age.

I repeat what I have said above.

DO NOT go into this blind in terms of your own priorities and expectations.

DO NOT go into a conversation with your parents with the attitude that you will find out how bad it is and then figure out from there how much you are comfortable helping.

Hammer this out NOW.
Figure out NOW exactly what you are comfortable with, and try to talk through with someone trusted all of the possible scenarios you might be emotionally faced with.

I *always* assumed I would subsidize my parents, and I was totally comfortable with the idea until it actually happened, and they were so entitled and we were not *at all* on the same page, and it permanently damaged our relationship.

Had I established clearly the intention and boundaries of my help, I could have saved myself an entire year of hell, and a lot of wasted money.

Maybe your parents are totally reasonable. Maybe when they ask for help it will be for things you respect and understand. Maybe they'll be grateful, and gracious, and never make you feel taken for granted...maybe.

But what if they don't?