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Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: JoJo on January 29, 2020, 06:50:14 PM
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace" I absolutely can't stand the set up each day when I didn't have a desk - multiple trips to my locker, messing around with monitors that were never right, chair the wrong height. It would take me 10 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down and wipe down the desk (which we were supposed to do)
So I decided to be a rebel. I claimed my own desk and left my keyboard, headset, cups, and mouse to reserve my place each day. But I kept things relatively clean and tidy - no personal stuff. After about a month of this, my boss noticed and said something and I explained what I was doing. She was OK with it as long as we kept it in our "neighborhood".
Well, I guess I got busted... someone came around the building and took photos of violators and presented to upper management. They haven't officially come down on me but they probably will soon. I've suggested a sort of hybrid approach that allows you to keep stuff at a desk in your own neighborhood if you are working on consecutive days, but clear out the desk if working remote or on vacation, but looking like a few sticklers won't go for that.
Does anyone else have no assigned desks? Was there any hybrid approach you took, or do you just follow the rules?
My boss is talking about assigning a desk to me but I don't want to be that one weirdo that gets special rules... I want everyone to have the advantage of the hybrid approach.
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I haven't had to work in this situation, but I wouldn't. I would look for a new job with normal human being managers who understand that I have shit that I need at work like fucking tampons, and I'm not a high schooler.
In other words, I would absolutely rebel. I wouldn't even try to be discrete.
Morons.
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I have an office...but I have a friend (attorney) who literally quit a job (well found another one) because of the no desk situation similar to yours. Drove her crazy.
One employer I know with flexible desk space reserved a couple rows for the people who don’t telework to have permanent desk spaces. Maybe that’s an option if you’re not a teleworker, to propose a permanent section for non teleworkers. Or to switch to a desk sharing system (person A gets desk 1 M, W, F and person B gets desk 1 Tu, Th).
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I have no practical advise, but much sympathy.
If they haven't come down on you yet, maybe upper management doesn't care. Or maybe they see that there are enough high producing violators that they will realize how ridiculous this is.
I mean, has anyone come up to you and said "I would really like to use this desk today." Unless you chose the best spot, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?!?!
I wonder if the picture taker was someone who has really bought into the system, like the person who suggested it, or just a chaotic lawful type do gooder/ tattletale.
When I used to work at coffee shops regularly, I would be disappointed if my favorite tables were taken!
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I'm sorry. I had enough of a problem with open floor plans. I have no idea why any manager thinks this is a good idea in terms of morale or productivity.
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I think the picture taker was directed by upper management. They were trying to do an evaluation on "let's see how this open desk thing is working one year in". There was also a survey that went out that apparently only 25% of people responded and supposedly 85% of those were positive with it. So upper management was the one that was discussing the photos of violators. My boss warned me that she recognized my cup in the picture but no one has specifically said I can't leave my stuff but I'm waiting for some official announcement to come out.
Here's the back of a napkin calcs... say this costs a person 10 minutes a day. We work about 45 weeks a year (after PTO and holidays)... that is 37.5 hours on this bullshit... almost a whole work week. ugh ugh ugh.
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I would 100% be a martyr over something like this.
I'm a pretty firm believer that most knowledge work is done best in private offices, let alone an open floorplan where you don't even have your own desk.
You should go all-in on the rebellion and bring in your own personal desk and chair and just plop it down wherever you want.
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We have hot desking at my workplace. I hate it.
It makes some sense as I am a high school teacher. I am only at a desk for a couple of hours a day, the rest is in the classroom.
The joke is that on a pupil free day there are just no where near enough desks to go around. So people disappear into the library, or classrooms to get a seat.
It will be something that pushes me out the door. That and I hate the city I'm in at the moment.
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace" I absolutely can't stand the set up each day when I didn't have a desk - multiple trips to my locker, messing around with monitors that were never right, chair the wrong height. It would take me 10 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down and wipe down the desk (which we were supposed to do)
So I decided to be a rebel. I claimed my own desk and left my keyboard, headset, cups, and mouse to reserve my place each day. But I kept things relatively clean and tidy - no personal stuff. After about a month of this, my boss noticed and said something and I explained what I was doing. She was OK with it as long as we kept it in our "neighborhood".
Well, I guess I got busted... someone came around the building and took photos of violators and presented to upper management. They haven't officially come down on me but they probably will soon. I've suggested a sort of hybrid approach that allows you to keep stuff at a desk in your own neighborhood if you are working on consecutive days, but clear out the desk if working remote or on vacation, but looking like a few sticklers won't go for that.
Does anyone else have no assigned desks? Was there any hybrid approach you took, or do you just follow the rules?
My boss is talking about assigning a desk to me but I don't want to be that one weirdo that gets special rules... I want everyone to have the advantage of the hybrid approach.
This would literally be something I would quit over on the spot.
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace" I absolutely can't stand the set up each day when I didn't have a desk - multiple trips to my locker, messing around with monitors that were never right, chair the wrong height. It would take me 10 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down and wipe down the desk (which we were supposed to do)
So I decided to be a rebel. I claimed my own desk and left my keyboard, headset, cups, and mouse to reserve my place each day. But I kept things relatively clean and tidy - no personal stuff. After about a month of this, my boss noticed and said something and I explained what I was doing. She was OK with it as long as we kept it in our "neighborhood".
Well, I guess I got busted... someone came around the building and took photos of violators and presented to upper management. They haven't officially come down on me but they probably will soon. I've suggested a sort of hybrid approach that allows you to keep stuff at a desk in your own neighborhood if you are working on consecutive days, but clear out the desk if working remote or on vacation, but looking like a few sticklers won't go for that.
Does anyone else have no assigned desks? Was there any hybrid approach you took, or do you just follow the rules?
My boss is talking about assigning a desk to me but I don't want to be that one weirdo that gets special rules... I want everyone to have the advantage of the hybrid approach.
This would literally be something I would quit over on the spot.
Ditto
My cube was mine. I had charts, tables on the walls. The periodic table was literally taped to my desk.
One of the reasons that I FIREd is that I never got an office. Yes it's pretty petty, but there were offices to be had.
The whole concept of no assigned desk is so bizarre that I have issues with believing it.
Fortunately for the OP, I just found an old picture of two GSXR-750 (visualize crotch rocket) with full-on dirt knobby tires, a similar level of cognitive dissonance.
Even when I was a short term worker mostly on a computer testing floor and had a team conference desk, I also has an assigned cubical.
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There has to be a Dilbert on this topic. I've searched but couldn't find it.
Yikes! Even Scott Adams can't find the humor here.
Well, I found some,
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-09 "hoteling"
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-10
Edit because I found relevant Dilberts
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace" I absolutely can't stand the set up each day when I didn't have a desk - multiple trips to my locker, messing around with monitors that were never right, chair the wrong height. It would take me 10 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down and wipe down the desk (which we were supposed to do)
So I decided to be a rebel. I claimed my own desk and left my keyboard, headset, cups, and mouse to reserve my place each day. But I kept things relatively clean and tidy - no personal stuff. After about a month of this, my boss noticed and said something and I explained what I was doing. She was OK with it as long as we kept it in our "neighborhood".
Well, I guess I got busted... someone came around the building and took photos of violators and presented to upper management. They haven't officially come down on me but they probably will soon. I've suggested a sort of hybrid approach that allows you to keep stuff at a desk in your own neighborhood if you are working on consecutive days, but clear out the desk if working remote or on vacation, but looking like a few sticklers won't go for that.
Does anyone else have no assigned desks? Was there any hybrid approach you took, or do you just follow the rules?
My boss is talking about assigning a desk to me but I don't want to be that one weirdo that gets special rules... I want everyone to have the advantage of the hybrid approach.
This would literally be something I would quit over on the spot.
Ditto
My cube was mine. I had charts, tables on the walls. The periodic table was literally taped to my desk.
One of the reasons that I FIREd is that I never got an office. Yes it's pretty petty, but there were offices to be had.
The whole concept of no assigned desk is so bizarre that I have issues with believing it.
Fortunately for the OP, I just found an old picture of two GSXR-750 (visualize crotch rocket) with full-on dirt knobby tires, a similar level of cognitive dissonance.
Even when I was a short term worker mostly on a computer testing floor and had a team conference desk, I also has an assigned cubical.
Oh, hot-desking is definitely real. I phone interviewed for a position at a popular downtown employer several years ago and was told that no one had assigned desks when I asked about the workplace environment and that everyone managed because "free snacks!" I did not pursue that job further.
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For anyone who has trouble believing this — YES, it’s the latest fad in corporate America. My workplace is already open office, and they’re trying to force hot desks. There’s been a simmering rebellion over the past weeks as no one wants this to happen. It destroys morale as it sends the message we are faceless meaningless employees who don’t matter. We don’t even have a culture that accepts working from home so I have no idea what management is thinking. Having said that - in your case it seems like only a matter of time until they come down on you. Unless upper management isn’t totally bought in to the idea. Good luck!
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My employer was talking about this as a future development when I retired in 2017. We could WFH two days per week and there was talk of increasing WFH days as a complementary policy to hoteling. Just another good reason to get the hell out as far as I was concerned.
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Ive never heard of a work environment doing this. Seems preposterous. Why would any sane human tolerate this? Or more importantly, how could any management think they could get away with this?
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What a stupid policy.
Maybe if upper management worried more about work than crap like this they might be successful.
Sounds like a terrible place to work.
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I travel to tech customers for work. In the last few years, a bunch of companies have gone to the open floorplan model. They tout that engineers discussing a problem will be overheard and constructive comments can come from others who can join in. In reality, EVERY SINGLE PERSON in EVERY SINGLE open floorplan company I have gone to in the last year has either headphones or ear buds in. There's an unwritten rule....if I have ear buds in....leave me alone. If I have head phones on....leave me the fuck alone!
There is zero collaboration and when people want to have discussions, they get together and go to an enclosed conference room.
Our office moved floors of our building last summer. Those who are in most of the time got assigned offices (like me). Those who are on the road were not assigned offices and could work out of any of the open offices. By the first week, all of the road people had claimed an open office. There are now no open offices. If someone comes in who hasn't claimed an office, they work in a conference room.
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Stupidest fad I've seen come through Corporate America since I started working. If my company did this, I'd walk out.
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This classic article about sums up what the ideal office for a knowledge worker would be: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/09/24/bionic-office/
That article is from 2003. It's tragic that many companies are still moving in the wrong direction.
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Ive never heard of a work environment doing this. Seems preposterous. Why would any sane human tolerate this? Or more importantly, how could any management think they could get away with this?
And yet, it does happen, as evidenced by this thread.
It’s an absolutely terrible idea, and I can only believe that it is motivated by a desire to spend as little as possible on workplace spaces and furniture. I’m sure there’s also supportive bullshit jargon about “collaboration” and “synergy” from people who will never work in these environments themselves.
I worked in an open-plan office once, and that was bad enough in terms of people bickering over noise and constant distractions. If we hadn’t at least had our own desks, the company may have collapsed into violence.
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This classic article about sums up what the ideal office for a knowledge worker would be: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/09/24/bionic-office/
That article is from 2003. It's tragic that many companies are still moving in the wrong direction.
The description reads like the Sterling Cooper space for the modern era (apologies if you haven’t seen Mad Men). Well-appointed private offices with comfortable public spaces for relaxation and casual collaborative work.
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If you get in early enough can you get the same desk every day?
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Tesla did this at their giga factory. Also I know another large car manufacturer that is doing this switch.
It doesn't make sense to me, especially with the huge amount of clutter that full time technical staff need around their desk, parts of this machine / car parts etc etc.
At tesla, one of the engineers kept a model 3 skateboard assembly by the desk, is he moving that every day!!?
For now I still have a permanent desk, but I realize those days won't last forever.
It's something that wouldnt personally bother me though.a friend of mine always says "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".
If a company wants to be inefficient, I'll play along.
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If you get in early enough can you get the same desk every day?
Some people do this, but it still doesn't prevent at least 2 trips to the locker in the morning and in the afternoon, plus wiping down the cube which is required and the risk that someone gets your desk. And I'm not a morning person.
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Ive never heard of a work environment doing this. Seems preposterous. Why would any sane human tolerate this? Or more importantly, how could any management think they could get away with this?
And yet, it does happen, as evidenced by this thread.
It’s an absolutely terrible idea, and I can only believe that it is motivated by a desire to spend as little as possible on workplace spaces and furniture. I’m sure there’s also supportive bullshit jargon about “collaboration” and “synergy” from people who will never work in these environments themselves.
I worked in an open-plan office once, and that was bad enough in terms of people bickering over noise and constant distractions. If we hadn’t at least had our own desks, the company may have collapsed into violence.
Yes - the expense savings was the motivation, supposedly we only have 4 desks for every 5 people, thus a smaller space and rent. But then they built these open areas for collaboration that are huge with couches and stuff and they maybe get used like 1% of the time. The former pres and CFO encouraged people to work from home 1-2 days (and some people have crazy commutes and welcomed WFH) but the new CFO doesn't think people work when their home so he rarely allows, so now the area overflows all the time, it just got worse this week when they separated part of our area for a special project. Add to this a couple people that have chronic coughs that I can't get away from and drive me crazy... I'm at wit's end.
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Our "cubes" were effectively open on one side. We got to hear our colleagues talking to their wives.
I wasn't married at the time and I didn't get any encouragement from those conversations to try marriage, even though we only heard the colleagues side of the story.
Chiming in from across the room was common. At least I didn't have to stare across my desk at a colleague.
I noted, but did not say to the manager who suggested open (flat desk) space design, that HE come out of his private office and try it first.
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Most staff in my office work from home 3 days a week. There are never more than 5 ppl here and 15 empty desks. The plan for the new space is a shared workspace with only personal cubicles for ppl who are here at least 3 days. If you're here only 2 days you're out of luck. They are doing this to save money and space.
I would hate it myself, but I have an office. :)
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There are days when I want to pound my head against the wall from my state government employer's bureaucratic nonsense.
Then I read about this kind of corporate management crap and I feel much better. At least I've got walls of my own upon which to bang my head.
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I can see this working in an environment where working at home or abroad is the norm. No set desk, no reason to set up a "home" desk at the office, but you need a space at the office on occasion. Might work well at a consulting company.
Anywhere else. Hell no, I know it's quite common to have items pin'd up or reminders, etc. I can't imagine not being able to do that, and having to set up everything/relay out whatever you were working on assuming of course it was not confidential(ie had to be put away daily).
I hope your bosses stop that non-sense and just assign desks. Hell even if its a desk you use only for a project and have to move afterwards that STILL a MILLION times better then a daily setup/strip down!
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There has to be a Dilbert on this topic. I've searched but couldn't find it.
Yikes! Even Scott Adams can't find the humor here.
Well, I found some,
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-09 "hoteling"
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-01-10
Edit because I found relevant Dilberts
Those were exactly what I was thinking, too, especially the restroom one. So glad you found them.
Yeah, I would quit.
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Wouldn't it be an ergonomic nightmare to set up your monitors, chair, and desk properly everyday? If I was forced to do this that is the route I would go.
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I feel like this is enough to start the Office reboot over. I can't imagine working like this.
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I haven't had to work in this situation, but I wouldn't. I would look for a new job with normal human being managers who understand that I have shit that I need at work like fucking tampons, and I'm not a high schooler.
In other words, I would absolutely rebel. I wouldn't even try to be discrete.
Morons.
+1000
We got pretty big a bunch of years ago and went to "open office" because "collaboration" and I gave my boss the stink-eye. Really dude? It was a disaster. We were never really able to fix it, even after layoffs.
So what we have now are...
5 offices with doors. Nobody has their own office (even in the other building, the president shares, but the CEO has his own).
3 of the offices have 2 people, the other two have 3 people.
Four people have their own "cubes".
Seven people have desks in the open office areas.
The other building is slightly better - more cubes, but the few open office areas are REALLY open and REALLY small.
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If you get in early enough can you get the same desk every day?
That's what my wife does.
At our company, we have a hybrid model that works great.
The key: you get to choose.
Are you a fixed employee, meaning you come in most of the time, require your own space (for ergo reasons, double monitor, etc)?
Are are you a flex employee, meaning you rarely come into the office, do not require your own space?
I'm a flex and it's glorious! I'm also mostly a paperless worker so I don't even keep a locker.
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If you get in early enough can you get the same desk every day?
Some people do this, but it still doesn't prevent at least 2 trips to the locker in the morning and in the afternoon, plus wiping down the cube which is required and the risk that someone gets your desk. And I'm not a morning person.
What are you doing at your locker?
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@JoJo , how far along your FIRE journey are you? Do you have enough FU money to take a stand here?
I worked a temporary project (about 2 months) where we had this setup. They set aside one small room as the quiet room, but everyone wanted to be there. Rather than switch so the larger room was the quiet room, we had to deal with lots of strategizing to get a quiet room desk. And of course there were a few clueless people who would come into the quiet room and talk to the people trying to work there. One guy would actually come to that room to have meetings on his cell phone because he could hear better there.
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If you get in early enough can you get the same desk every day?
Some people do this, but it still doesn't prevent at least 2 trips to the locker in the morning and in the afternoon, plus wiping down the cube which is required and the risk that someone gets your desk. And I'm not a morning person.
What are you doing at your locker?
I would presume getting all the supplies that were stored overnight, and returning them at the end of the workday (since there's no permanent desk storage).
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What are you doing at your locker?
Since none of us has a permanent desk or locking drawers, we each have a small locker to store our lap tops for the night plus anything we might want (coffee, meds, snacks, office supplies). The locker is in the middle of the building so I have to make a U shape to get to it... probably takes about 1 minute to get from my normal desk to the locker.
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As for immediately quitting, I really need to stick it out for 2 months... two months pay + bonus which is only paid if you're still here in late March is enough to pay for a year of travel. I was hoping to go out on good standing and give a couple months notice but this might be the thing that puts me over the edge.
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Have some fun with it. Get some fake plastic poo to save your desk. Set up when you get there and complain about having to clean up someone else's crap to get a desk. When people wise up to the fake plastic poo, microwave some tootsie rolls and put those on the desk.
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That sounds terrible. If you want to check in with a coworker, do you just wander around until you find them? And do you not have desk phones? The ergonomic considerations seem like a problem too - I have my desk, monitors, and chair all adjusted for my height - no way would I want to do that daily (and unless you have adjustable height desks, adjusting desk height daily would be impossible).
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What are you doing at your locker?
Since none of us has a permanent desk or locking drawers, we each have a small locker to store our lap tops for the night plus anything we might want (coffee, meds, snacks, office supplies). The locker is in the middle of the building so I have to make a U shape to get to it... probably takes about 1 minute to get from my normal desk to the locker.
I think being forced to flex-desk shows the company doesn't really care about the employee experience. I wouldn't like that and I'm not surprised you don't like it. Having said that, a couple of minutes to and from the locker daily seems minimally invasive.
(I don't use my locker b/c I take my laptop home with me / keep snacks in my back pack, etc. though I'm not suggesting you should do that if you don't want to.)
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That sounds terrible. If you want to check in with a coworker, do you just wander around until you find them? And do you not have desk phones? The ergonomic considerations seem like a problem too - I have my desk, monitors, and chair all adjusted for my height - no way would I want to do that daily (and unless you have adjustable height desks, adjusting desk height daily would be impossible).
Not OP....but we don't have desk phones - all calls through laptop. But we do have adjusting desks, which are sweet. Especially after lunch when I like to stand at my desk for a while.
People tend to sit in the same area most of the time. But otherwise we just say where we are sitting. "I'm on 3 by post B" or whatever. There's no burden there. Some might think fewer drop-bys would be a welcome perk. : )
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Desk phones replaced by phones tied to computer with headsets and a dongle (but I lost mine oops! so I forward work calls to my cell phone). And yes, desks, monitors, and chairs all adjustable... all desks can be standing or sitting desks. There are a few upgrades that are great.
As for finding someone, there are neighborhoods you're supposed to sit in or there's a ton of IMing now... I hardly ever meet or call anyone when I need something quick.
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My company switched to this ~6 years ago. Took some getting used to but doesn't bother me. This also made it more acceptable to work from home a couple days a week.
I use the same desk every day, but don't leave anything there. we all have small lockers we can leave things in. Most people follow that same protocol and take the same spot each day. I just plug my laptop in each day, one plug connects it to keyboard and monitor.
Every once in a while someone from out of town comes and takes my desk and I have to find a new one. In that case it's a bit of a pain if the monitor etc isn't set up correctly.
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace" I absolutely can't stand the set up each day when I didn't have a desk - multiple trips to my locker, messing around with monitors that were never right, chair the wrong height. It would take me 10 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down and wipe down the desk (which we were supposed to do)
So I decided to be a rebel. I claimed my own desk and left my keyboard, headset, cups, and mouse to reserve my place each day. But I kept things relatively clean and tidy - no personal stuff. After about a month of this, my boss noticed and said something and I explained what I was doing. She was OK with it as long as we kept it in our "neighborhood".
Well, I guess I got busted... someone came around the building and took photos of violators and presented to upper management. They haven't officially come down on me but they probably will soon. I've suggested a sort of hybrid approach that allows you to keep stuff at a desk in your own neighborhood if you are working on consecutive days, but clear out the desk if working remote or on vacation, but looking like a few sticklers won't go for that.
Does anyone else have no assigned desks? Was there any hybrid approach you took, or do you just follow the rules?
My boss is talking about assigning a desk to me but I don't want to be that one weirdo that gets special rules... I want everyone to have the advantage of the hybrid approach.
This would literally be something I would quit over on the spot.
Ditto
My cube was mine. I had charts, tables on the walls. The periodic table was literally taped to my desk.
One of the reasons that I FIREd is that I never got an office. Yes it's pretty petty, but there were offices to be had.
The whole concept of no assigned desk is so bizarre that I have issues with believing it.
Fortunately for the OP, I just found an old picture of two GSXR-750 (visualize crotch rocket) with full-on dirt knobby tires, a similar level of cognitive dissonance.
Even when I was a short term worker mostly on a computer testing floor and had a team conference desk, I also has an assigned cubical.
Me too. Fortunately I work in a law firm where the lawyers all have private exterior offices with wooden doors. That, plus the carpet, really keeps the noise down. My firm is very old fashioned and allergic to renovations, so there's little chance of this changing.
But I have heard of some law firms in my city going to the "no assigned desk" or "open concept" model, and it must be a huge irritation for the lawyers. How can you have a confidential client call if everyone can hear you? Where do you put all of the paper that is inevitably needed in a law firm, especially for litigators?
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What are you doing at your locker?
Since none of us has a permanent desk or locking drawers, we each have a small locker to store our lap tops for the night plus anything we might want (coffee, meds, snacks, office supplies). The locker is in the middle of the building so I have to make a U shape to get to it... probably takes about 1 minute to get from my normal desk to the locker.
I think being forced to flex-desk shows the company doesn't really care about the employee experience. I wouldn't like that and I'm not surprised you don't like it. Having said that, a couple of minutes to and from the locker daily seems minimally invasive.
(I don't use my locker b/c I take my laptop home with me / keep snacks in my back pack, etc. though I'm not suggesting you should do that if you don't want to.)
Also not OP, but we have no phones at desks. All calls go straight through to message bank and we receive it on email. As one of my colleagues said, what happens of we try to.contact someone else with the same system?
It's just a bit shit.
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So OP has phones attached to laptops with dongles. Someone else has a weird email bank for phones. Sounds like your firms have made all the wrong decisions in implementing the flex/hoteling environment. With a few different decisions they could have made this a more enjoyable work experience.
We use skype for business for all calls. IM is huge in our company. I have a work cell phone but only one vendor ever calls it.
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That's insane. I quit my last job when we moved to an open office. Not that I care about privacy for privacy's sake, but noticed all upper management got nice offices. It's more of a trust and respect issue, if they don't trust me to work, fire me, and if they don't respect us enough to give us working conditions they would want, why should I stay?
I'd spend my time applying for jobs while at my desk.
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My last year of work, I was primarily travelling / WFH employee.
When I went in to the office, such as for a 2 hour meeting and I would work there for the day because my commute was 90 minutes.. it SUCKED that there were no open desks that I could use, and yet, the office was often only 1/3 full. It was a projectized business and people were working on projects, out sick, at all day meetings, on vacation.
We were not allowed to work in conference rooms because they were limited and frequently booked.
I had to draw on my former in-office relationships to get someone's personal permission to use their desk if they were out, and I had to switch desks often halfway through the day. And I had to search for a desk of someone I knew, and then email them / call them to ask if I could use it for the day.
The same thing happened for visits to other offices (we were a project business, often travelling to work to help other offices out near the client location).. End result is most of the company had an assigned desk that they were not in town to use, but could not find a free desk to set down at the temporary location.
It was madness.
I definitely think that everyone in the office should have an assigned spot. I liked one design, where people would be out of the office for 6-7 hours a day -- everyone had a 2ft x 3ft "cubby" / "carol" like in a library. Personal space, put up your photos,mug, have your own chair and reference books. It was quite tight, but everyone could sit at once, have full team meetings in one room, had a locked file drawer, etc.
If you wanted more space for a day in office, or visiting, you migrated to the other side of the room where there were large open work areas and desks, including shared tables for setting out large drawing sheets, a side area with workshop like desks for electronics testing, and even a handful of closed offices if you were going to be on the phone for the day or meeting confidentially. These were reset at the end of the day.
Lovely!
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I heard from a little birdie that there are 354 desks and 350 employees plus a few contractors... so just short of having a desk for everyone. But still... this idea that you can have a desk on consecutive days makes so much sense. So I asked on the execs, the response was "well, what if someone thinks they're coming in on consecutive days but then they're sick or kids are sick"... really... that's their best argument?
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So my company went to no assigned desks at work a year ago. They call it "dynamic workspace"
I was put in this situation also about a year ago. I found another job (at much better pay) and quit. In my exit interview, I was blunt and listed the open office as the main reason. The HR team kind of already knew, as I wasn't the first one out the door after the change.
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I would’ve loved, theoretically, an employee practice that says we can’t bring personal shit and spread it all over kingdom come on desks and floor spaces and etc.
But the business of adjusting chairs and monitors to suit you makes sense because that is a productivity issue.Also some of my employees had chairs that were specifically purchased for them and their stated needs.
It doesn’t seem like a big deal to me to keep your coffee cup in your locker where you can pick it up daily and deposit it at the end of the day.
I say “theoretically “because this would be too disturbing for the average employee, so I would not favor it real life just in my head because I had to regularly peel stupid glitter stickers off of peoples’ monitors before IT yelled at me, get rid of people’s crap when they left employment, etc.
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There are days when I want to pound my head against the wall from my state government employer's bureaucratic nonsense.
Then I read about this kind of corporate management crap and I feel much better. At least I've got walls of my own upon which to bang my head.
My state government employer has bought into this bullshit and is building a whole new campus to implement it in the roughest area of Austin. Everyone is getting consolidated there - even the building that the state owns and is only 15 years old.
Except the upper management. They're keeping the plush individual offices in their current building, plus personal "Executive assistants."
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With the nature of my work, all of our work stations and desks are shared. My assistant directs me where to go and work at any given moment. I have a desk I generally work at, but if it's not free, I'll grab whatever computer is available and login.
I make sure to wear a jacket with a lot of pockets so that I can carry the various things I need with me.
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With the nature of my work, all of our work stations and desks are shared. My assistant directs me where to go and work at any given moment. I have a desk I generally work at, but if it's not free, I'll grab whatever computer is available and login.
I make sure to wear a jacket with a lot of pockets so that I can carry the various things I need with me.
Hopefully the new campus won't be so damn hot so that I can wear my travel vest...
If I stick around that long. I've got a couple of years - and every other state agency will be a shorter commute. My new position explicitly calls attention to my very transferable skills. Or I can try to get a job in the executive building and at least keep a cube ;) I have options. There has already been a significant uptick in qualified people bailing out as they find a good position elsewhere. Heck, my new position resulted in large part from the move fracas - old position was "butts in seats, 5 days a week" - new position has 2 days/week telecommute, likely to go up from there when consolidation happens.
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Prior to my current role, I always had my own desk. I would keep the standard things in there, pens, notepad, maybe some snacks, protein, etc. Since I my own desk, I also always had tons of hard copies of things related to work. Code books, project specifications, etc.
In my current role, I was originally had my own desk at our company headquarters and two different engineering offices. Now I have my own desk at headquarters, one job site, then some floating desks shared with others at other locations.
While I still have a couple of my own desks, I keep them very bare since I am never at any one consistently. I am at a minimum of 3 desks per week. This has forced me to digitize everything, and only bring with each day what I can keep in my backpack and lunch box. It took a lot of getting used to because I have always been very much a “hard copy guy” but now that it’s forced me to digitize everything, it’s been insanely more efficient.
This doesn’t totally help your case, but it is somewhat similar. Try and enjoy the benefit of minimizing everything you would typically need at work during the day, into what you can easily take with and bring home.
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Office space is legitimately expensive, so companies have every incentive to make the most efficient use of it. The problem is that the reduction in office space requirements due to a new configuration is concrete and easy to qualify, while the change in productivity is much fuzzier.
My gut feeling tells me that hot-desking could be worth it for an employee population that is out of their desk more days than not (many sales roles, remote workers, etc.), or where you have multiple shifts of workers. For someone who is expected to be in their desk most every day, the potential savings from hot-desking just aren't that great. The idea that someone who plans to be in the office the next business day can avoid putting their stuff away seems to be a perfectly fair compromise. If you're relying on vacant desks from unplanned absences in order to accommodate everyone in the office that day, you're probably playing things a bit close to capacity.
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100% hot desking makes sense. Since I’m part time and out approximately 40% of the year, I agree I don’t need a permanent desk. But if I’m going to be in the office for 20 business days in a row, why can I not claim a desk and keep it for that period of time, and leave a few items there?
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As for immediately quitting, I really need to stick it out for 2 months... two months pay + bonus which is only paid if you're still here in late March is enough to pay for a year of travel. I was hoping to go out on good standing and give a couple months notice but this might be the thing that puts me over the edge.
When you give your notice you could say it's two weeks unless you get your own desk - then they can have a couple of months for the transition.
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The open concept lab space and to a lesser extent no assigned workspaces thing was a thing in tech for awhile that has since been proven to fail miserably. It's been shown to drastically reduce workplace productivity.
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My company does not hot desk (thank god). but as an idea to cut down on the trips back and forth to the locker, can you use a tray (I'm thinking almost like one of those serving trays you see in some people's houses) that holds most of your stuff that you would leave out (like your coffee mug, mouse, keyboard, etc), and then move that tray around? It's like a psychological thing, you can claim that your stuff isn't set up at a desk and therefore you aren't claiming it, but you are keeping your required materials close at hand and all together to start your days.
Perhaps leave the tray on or under a desk (but you aren't necessarily claiming that desk), or if there is a common area in or near your team's neighborhood you could leave your tray there. Or maybe on a windowsill or counter or something? Then you can grab the tray, set it at a workspace, then go to your locker just once for the necessities like your laptop.
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I'm a veterinarian. At my job, we have two seated computer workstations that have to be shared between the 2 doctors and 3-5 vet assistants that work together on any given today. It frustrates the heck out of me not to be able to leave anything at work (snacks, tampons, etc.) and definitely negatively impacts my feelings towards work and my productivity.
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My company does not hot desk (thank god). but as an idea to cut down on the trips back and forth to the locker, can you use a tray (I'm thinking almost like one of those serving trays you see in some people's houses) that holds most of your stuff that you would leave out (like your coffee mug, mouse, keyboard, etc), and then move that tray around? It's like a psychological thing, you can claim that your stuff isn't set up at a desk and therefore you aren't claiming it, but you are keeping your required materials close at hand and all together to start your days.
Perhaps leave the tray on or under a desk (but you aren't necessarily claiming that desk), or if there is a common area in or near your team's neighborhood you could leave your tray there. Or maybe on a windowsill or counter or something? Then you can grab the tray, set it at a workspace, then go to your locker just once for the necessities like your laptop.
I have seen something similar to this at my work. Unfortunately our cleaners are under instruction to remove anything off benches, off the tops of lockers, on desks etc. and put them in "the cupboard". It is a form of shaming that is unreasonable in my opinion, and does make it difficult at times.
My computer had to update (do not turn off) and had been doing so for an hour when I left work at 5:00 pm. Most leave around 4:00pm, so I just left the laptop plugged in and updating. In the morning it was in "the cupboard", but the updates had not completed. I had to see IT to get it fixed so it worked, and wasted half a days productivity because of it.
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I have seen something similar to this at my work. Unfortunately our cleaners are under instruction to remove anything off benches, off the tops of lockers, on desks etc. and put them in "the cupboard". It is a form of shaming that is unreasonable in my opinion, and does make it difficult at times.
Holy cow... this reminds me of something else that is terrible at work... so they clean out the refrigerators every Friday night and they throw the stuff away, no matter what it is. So one Friday I brought in lunch in a nice, reusable lunch pack and inside was a bowl that was a gift from my now deceased grandma. But there was a special surprise lunch and unfortunately, I forgot to take my prepared lunch home. So by Monday, everything was gone. I was so sad to lose that bowl... literally in tears.
So on Monday I asked facilities if there was any way the garbage might still be in the building and their only response was "Tough, it's your fault you left something there on Friday"
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I have seen something similar to this at my work. Unfortunately our cleaners are under instruction to remove anything off benches, off the tops of lockers, on desks etc. and put them in "the cupboard". It is a form of shaming that is unreasonable in my opinion, and does make it difficult at times.
Holy cow... this reminds me of something else that is terrible at work... so they clean out the refrigerators every Friday night and they throw the stuff away, no matter what it is. So one Friday I brought in lunch in a nice, reusable lunch pack and inside was a bowl that was a gift from my now deceased grandma. But there was a special surprise lunch and unfortunately, I forgot to take my prepared lunch home. So by Monday, everything was gone. I was so sad to lose that bowl... literally in tears.
So on Monday I asked facilities if there was any way the garbage might still be in the building and their only response was "Tough, it's your fault you left something there on Friday"
I've lost many a good tupperware in this manner. They only do it once a month at my work though. I'm so sorry you lost such a sentimental item. :(
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Does anyone else have no assigned desks?
I nearly thought not having my own office with a door that locked was a deal breaker when I took my current contract. I ended up with privacy walls and nobody else within 20' of me so I got over it.
I'm with other posters in that I would quit before dealing with what you are describing. I'd never get anything done and I don't need the aggravation.
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Well, my desk squatting (leaving my stuff at night) has come to an end... here's the memo they just sent out... I swear they are doing this to spite me... I am planning my escape as we speak, likely to be sooner than later now...
Hi,
In the spirit of dynamic working, we are adjusting the way we organize our workstations. For rest of the year we will be blending the 3 department's neighborhoods into one space. This means that you are welcome to sit in any workstation available when you arrive that meets your needs for the day.
Additionally the Project Space will be reduced by 3 workstations so that the other department's heads down working area will have more space. So if you have heads down, quiet work to do, we know they are happy to share space with us if available.
Please remember that unless you have an assigned desk at the end of each day you should be removing your personal items and cleaning the space for the next working day.
Let any of us know if you have any questions at all,
Happy Friday!
VP's names here, like they're being so friendly to all of us
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Fuckers! ;-)
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Well, it took me over 10 minutes to take down my desk today. Every time I thought I had it all packed, I found something else.
And then this crazy thing... we're supposed to wipe down our desks, but our building "went green" in january, meaning they took away our garbage cans so the plastic liners aren't used. So instead, we have to walk 6 desks away to get a highly toxic desk wipe, then wipe down our desk, then walk half way thru to the middle of the floor to throw away the wipe at one of the only 2 places on the floor to dispose of garbage. and according to an online search, most of these wipes contain plastic, and the wipes come in a big plastic can - at 80 per can we easily go thru a can every couple days.
I really think this is the last straw.
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My GF works at a Big 4 (accounting firm). She just started last Fall. This is exactly how it's set up. She hates it and I can see why
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Just start working from home.
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My old job did this. It's crap really. It's just a good way for the CEO to walk around and say words like "dynamic" and "collaborative workspaces" before going back to her private office in a different building that has only her office.
Luckily I dont work there anymore.
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The silver lining... I've been OMYing the last couple years. After spreadsheeting and thinking this weekend I now have plans to for sure retire by July at the latest.
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Please remember that unless you have an assigned desk at the end of each day you should be removing your personal items and cleaning the space for the next working day.
What's it take to make it on this magical list?
Also:
https://www.displayfakefoods.com/store/pc/Coffee-To-Go-Cup-Spilled-p485.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAm4TyBRDgARIsAOU75sphr2gt2qgVzs2vAz6ciYwBsDCf8YwNqoTe_lxyzww6hv0PWUwuPLYaAoX9EALw_wcB (https://www.displayfakefoods.com/store/pc/Coffee-To-Go-Cup-Spilled-p485.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAm4TyBRDgARIsAOU75sphr2gt2qgVzs2vAz6ciYwBsDCf8YwNqoTe_lxyzww6hv0PWUwuPLYaAoX9EALw_wcB)
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Please remember that unless you have an assigned desk at the end of each day you should be removing your personal items and cleaning the space for the next working day.
What's it take to make it on this magical list?
Also:
https://www.displayfakefoods.com/store/pc/Coffee-To-Go-Cup-Spilled-p485.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAm4TyBRDgARIsAOU75sphr2gt2qgVzs2vAz6ciYwBsDCf8YwNqoTe_lxyzww6hv0PWUwuPLYaAoX9EALw_wcB (https://www.displayfakefoods.com/store/pc/Coffee-To-Go-Cup-Spilled-p485.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAm4TyBRDgARIsAOU75sphr2gt2qgVzs2vAz6ciYwBsDCf8YwNqoTe_lxyzww6hv0PWUwuPLYaAoX9EALw_wcB)
Why not act as though you are on the list? If someone asks why you are leaving your stuff out:
JoJo: "oh, I'm on the list of people who get to have their own cubicle".
CW: no you aren't, only XYZ get to have their own cubicle
JoJo: oh maybe so but I'm on the list"
CW: no you aren't
Jojo: no I really do think I am but honestly this is silly, let's talk about work related thing
Just act obtuse and like you think you are on the list. What are they going to do? (Of course I'd make sure the stuff you are leaving put is not something you'll be upset about if they throw away).
If someone senior to you does check the list and tells you you aren't on it, you can probably keep the innocent shtick going for a while, saying you thought you had an understanding with your manager and you aren't sure why you wouldn't be on the list, and you'll schedule a meeting for you, your manager, and them, but drat it all it'll take two weeks to get that on everyone's schedule, so in the meantime you'll just leave your stuff where it is because you really do Need to have your own desk. Smile. Nod.
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Our department is small enough to know who's on the list. And apparently upper management has plenty of time to spend hours talking about and taking pictures of violators because there's nothing else to do .
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And apparently upper management has plenty of time to spend hours talking about and taking pictures of violators because there's nothing else to do .
Sounds about right.
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What about an AV cart, gardening cart, or rusted shopping cart you can put your things in? You could keep it near your desk while working and just push it away from the desks at the end of the night. Push it to the next desk when you get there in the morning. You can equip it with:
Candy
Tissues
Lysol
a small trashcan with plastic grocery bag liner (for the tissues & disinfectant wipes)
Reference books
Pictures of loved ones
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If you're actually FI - the rusty, squeaky shopping cart sounds like quite the plan.
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Another pet peeve about not having assigned desks and being in an "open plan" office area. If you want some privacy to get some work done, you put the headphones on and get going. Everyone understands this. No-one bothers you unless it is vitally urgent.
But it turns out that some people think all sorts of unimportant crap is vitally urgent, and they need to interrupt me now to talk about something that doesn't affect my work or theirs.
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Ha! How this thread has aged! We've been home for more than 2 weeks, one of the coworkers has tested positive for COVID. They were in the office up to two days before they closed it. As far as I know that person has mostly recovered and no reports of other people getting it.
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Next step: Companies realize how much money they can save by shutting down their stupid open plan office buildings and just letting us all stay at home.
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Dozens to hundreds of employees playing musical desks every day doesn't seem like such a great idea now.