The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: wealthviahealth on April 23, 2014, 05:54:40 PM
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Giving back to my university to support student scholarships and programs I was apart of is important to me
and my contributions have not decreased since getting on a stricter savings plan.
Curious if others on here still make it a point to give back to their university and if their giving has in anyway been affected since adopting mustachian principles.
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I won't give my alma mater a cent until I pay off my student loans - we'll see after that.
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We used to - until we started "donating" to our children's ;).
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I give a fairly perfunctory amount every year ($50-75/yr). I had a very positive experience and mostly want to help how they are rated on alumni participation.
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Paying for scholarships is noble, but at some level it feels like subsidizing their ridiculous tuition rates. I have a tough time supporting that.
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My god, I paid full tuition. Now they want more? No way.
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My alma mater pays for three football coaches whom they fired, is constantly building new facilities and 'upgrading' things that are perfectly fine. Because of this, I feel like they need to learn how to manage their own money before I give them mine.
However, if you benefited from a scholarship or some other program, I could see how you would want to give back. To each their own.
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Nope..
I thought they charged too much for what it was then, even worse now.
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Yes, it was called tuition...
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No. My alma mater is an extremely wealthy institution and there are better uses of charity I have to give.
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They get my $$ for season tickets every year, and I think that's enough. I might consider donating a Jackson here and there, if they didn't always call at bath time every night for a week or more in a row. Finally I blocked the number.
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You bet. I went to an expensive place, but it was worth every penny. And even though they charge a very high tuition, I know from working as a volunteer alum that tuition covers only about 70% of the costs of the education. The rest comes from donations from alums, grants, and fundraising. It is simply expensive to educate people in small classes, upgrade computers and electronics all the time, keep the library up to date, maintain the buildings, and pay people a living wage.
I also work at a university (to which I do not donate). They certainly spend more money here on sports than I am happy with. I do know, though, that every time they try to cut back on sports spending, a flood of alumni howls comes forth, people declaring "I'll never donate another red cent after what you've done to the program!" and so forth. So half the alumni declare they'll only donate for sports and the other half declare they won't donate because there's too much emphasis on sports. What to do? They're definitely between a rock and a hard place there.
On the whole, though, I don't think my determination to be financially independent should spill over into selfishness — if I have money beyond the basics, and I do, I think it's right to support things I believe in.
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No, although they've been aggressive about asking. Why? It comes down to a few reasons:
1) I worked and took out loans for my schooling. I didn't benefit from alumni giving, and so feel no sense of reciprocity.
2) Since graduating, I've seen the university throw millions at building fancy digs for athletes, while passing the costs to other students via "recreation fees." I feel academics have taken second fiddle and this diminishes any "giving" feelings I might have.
3) When I do donate $$$, I think there are other causes that are more important. I'm concerned about civil liberties and the influence of money in our political system. I focus my resources there.
4) Frankly I'm no longer convinced that a traditional 4 year degree has the same value it used to.
SIS
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I was walking around the campus of a school that charges about $50,000 for tuition. This is not a top school and not one I attended. I noticed their landscaping. I'm pretty sure that they purchased all of the flowers in the tri-state area and planted them on their campus. I wonder how much that cost?
I do not give to either school I attended although I would give directly to the programs I attended, if asked. I would not want the general university to have my money to mismanage. As with other schools mentioned here, my two schools are busy building luxury dorms, luxury stadiums, etc, etc.
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You bet. I went to an expensive place, but it was worth every penny. And even though they charge a very high tuition, I know from working as a volunteer alum that tuition covers only about 70% of the costs of the education. The rest comes from donations from alums, grants, and fundraising. It is simply expensive to educate people in small classes, upgrade computers and electronics all the time, keep the library up to date, maintain the buildings, and pay people a living wage.
Yeah, I went to an expensive restaurant last year, and it was worth every penny. I know they offer a Groupon, so they are partially subsidizing certain meals. I still send them a few extra bucks every now and then, just to say thanks.
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You bet. I went to an expensive place, but it was worth every penny. And even though they charge a very high tuition, I know from working as a volunteer alum that tuition covers only about 70% of the costs of the education. The rest comes from donations from alums, grants, and fundraising. It is simply expensive to educate people in small classes, upgrade computers and electronics all the time, keep the library up to date, maintain the buildings, and pay people a living wage.
Have fewer buildings. Rely on a consortium for books. Pay the President less. Both of my former schools have hundreds of buildings. Each requires their own heating and A/C unit, janitors to clean the floors, etc.
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Absolutely not. Public institution and I have a strong beef with them on a particular issue. I would consider giving money to the co-curriculars I was involved with. Like many of the peoe I went to school with, the real skills weren't learned in the classroom.
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To those who have beefs with athletic departments and spending: don't most of those funds come from private boosters and donations rather than the general endowment/building fund?
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Hell no. I enjoyed my time there and have some good friends from there, but there are better causes to give to. Prefer to give directly to programs I'm personally involved with and that help poor kids. They can think of $$$ for football tickets my contribution.
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ShortinSeattle (and others), taking out loans doesn't mean you weren't supported by alumni donations. The tuition price of the school does not reflect the full price of educating a student. For instance, if the tuition is $18,000 per year (just pulling a number out of a hat), the real cost of educating that student may well be $25,000 per year — or $36,000. Those extra thousands are covered by grants and donations.
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ShortinSeattle (and others), taking out loans doesn't mean you weren't supported by alumni donations. The tuition price of the school does not reflect the full price of educating a student. For instance, if the tuition is $18,000 per year (just pulling a number out of a hat), the real cost of educating that student may well be $25,000 per year — or $36,000. Those extra thousands are covered by grants and donations.
And public funds. Unless you went to some ridiculous private school.
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Yes, mainly to give my kids an edge in admissions (if they decide to apply) as the legacy factor increases a bit if the alumnus was a consistent (even small amounts) giver over a long period of time.
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Absolutely not. Public institution and I have a strong beef with them on a particular issue. I would consider giving money to the co-curriculars I was involved with. Like many of the people I went to school with, the real skills weren't learned in the classroom.
I have many issues with my alma mater, although I appreciate most of the college experience and the diplomas.
I'd give to some of the foreign language departments or to fund study abroad someday maybe, but other than that I wouldn't give them just general money. The way that the school's foundation works is that all the money is pooled and allocated by them. That wouldn't fly with me, and you are forced to route any donations through the foundation.
I don't give, and I really don't plan to (minus above exceptions).
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Yes, but its only a little and its directed at the business school.
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I donated a small amount each year for about 30 years to my very small liberal arts college. They made it possible for me to attend with generous scholarships and grants, so I felt I owed them.
I stopped donating the last couple of years because my oldest son started at our state university, and we need to live frugally to help him.
My second son has decided to go to a private university, and scholarships and grants bring our responsibility down to a very reasonable amount. So I'm grateful to the alumni of that university, and have decided to contribute more to my own college for the sake of students who wish to go there.
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Not in a position to, even if I wanted. Giving while you're still in debt for said school is dumb. I was also turned off by the fact that the INSTANT I graduated, they had their hand out.
When I am able, I won't. Both schools I went to are religious institutions and it doesn't mesh with my currently atheist conscience.
And I can think of so many better uses of charitable dollars than giving to Western universities. Seriously, folks, you give to your schools before food pantries, abuse shelters, or Bill Gates Foundation, etc?
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Thanks all for the great perspective on this.
I have a few follow up questions-
Some of you have mentioned that you prefer to give back to charities you feel have greater needs, certainly understand this,
I am wondering if some of you are aware of scholarships/programs within your alma mater that are set up to help students from impoverished areas, foster homes, or who are currently struggling to cover basic needs such as personal care products, food, or even books for class and tools required to succeed?
Would you be more likely to give if there was something tangible you received in return such as scholarship named after your/your family and the opportunity to meet and mentor the students, or perhaps a named classroom/building/ bench/ fountain etc..?
If your alma mater worked at having a meaningful relationship with you post graduation that wasn't solely based on your donations would this have an impact on your desire to give? I,e- invitations to exclusive alumni events, occasional free tickets to games and musical performances, invitations to come back and speak with classrooms about your experience in your field, taking you out to lunch/ coffee to hear your input on current university initiatives and your experience while at the school.
Would love to hear any perspective on this as well.
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I will give a small amount when my loans are paid, but I can't see giving very much.
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Nope. They sucked enough out of me financially.
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Would you be more likely to give if there was something tangible you received in return such as scholarship named after your/your family and the opportunity to meet and mentor the students, or perhaps a named classroom/building/ bench/ fountain etc..?
If your alma mater worked at having a meaningful relationship with you post graduation that wasn't solely based on your donations would this have an impact on your desire to give? I,e- invitations to exclusive alumni events, occasional free tickets to games and musical performances, invitations to come back and speak with classrooms about your experience in your field, taking you out to lunch/ coffee to hear your input on current university initiatives and your experience while at the school.
Would love to hear any perspective on this as well.
To me, these suggestions are poor returns on investment and blatantly reduce the amount of money directed at the intended source. Some of the suggestions are also drawing on the egotistical personality types - I'm not a big fan of people who need to be the centre-of-attention to validate themselves. Accepting there are plenty of people who would be drawn in by these tactics, I don't know how many MMM readers would.
Some of the other things you mention - speaking to classrooms on field experience are much better suggestions. They are an offer of your free time and experience - which I believe are much better direction of resources.
As to your original question - I didn't/don't/won't contribute any money to any of my Alma Mater. I would echo many of the sentiments others have expressed - alot of money was spent during my tertiary education - the Universities have received more than enough from my perspective.
When I donate money (I would much rather donate time - in FIRE) - it is directed at a 'close to the heart' cause and based on the same research I would employ when choosing an investment vehicle. As a starting point (for Canadians) I would consider checking out this:
http://www.moneysense.ca/the-2013-charity-100-grades (http://www.moneysense.ca/the-2013-charity-100-grades)
..which outlines the efficiency of a charity (among other things).
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My god, I paid full tuition. Now they want more? No way.
That's where I'm at.
It maybe has some effect that school I went to was not well managed:
- they expanded our engineering department, and concrete walled off the temperature controls for the building. Winter rolled around and they had to demolish a wall to access them again.
- they decided to cover the concrete on the ground all around the new engineering building in large pieces of slate. The expansion/freezing of water over the winter cracked all of the slate. The slate was replaced the next year. The cracking came back. The slate was replaced the next year . . .
- Every year that I went I paid my tuition in full before the semester started. The first year, I got a note that I needed to pay an additional 70$. I went down to the main office, waited in line for several hours, produced my receipts, and was assured that the matter was taken care of. A couple days later I got a note saying that if I did not immediately pay the 70$, I would be deregistered for class. I paid the 70$. Three months later the 70$ was refunded. OK, screw ups happen whatever.
The second year I went there I got a letter just before classes started saying I needed to pay an additional 70$. I went to the main office, did the whole thing with the same result as the first year. Eventually I paid the 70$ and it was refunded back to me three months later. This also happened year three and year four (although I stopped bothering to talk to them about it).
Don't get me wrong, I had great times, good memories and met some awesome friends there . . . but it was largely in spite of the administration . . . not due to them.
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I am wondering if some of you are aware of scholarships/programs within your alma mater that are set up to help students from impoverished areas, foster homes, or who are currently struggling to cover basic needs such as personal care products, food, or even books for class and tools required to succeed?
If anything, that's going to put me off even more. I'd rather help kids from middle class families who have 6 kids but have zero idea how to put them through college.
Would you be more likely to give if there was something tangible you received in return such as scholarship named after your/your family and the opportunity to meet and mentor the students, or perhaps a named classroom/building/ bench/ fountain etc..?
Even worse - I have no desire to have a bench named after me. I owe a debt to mentor female students at some point, but it's not likely to induce me to donate.
If your alma mater worked at having a meaningful relationship with you post graduation that wasn't solely based on your donations would this have an impact on your desire to give? I,e- invitations to exclusive alumni events, occasional free tickets to games and musical performances, invitations to come back and speak with classrooms about your experience in your field, taking you out to lunch/ coffee to hear your input on current university initiatives and your experience while at the school.
I get those invitations all the time. I consider them spam.
My god, I paid full tuition. Now they want more? No way.
Don't get me wrong, I had great times, good memories and met some awesome friends there . . . but it was largely in spiteof the administration . . . not due to them.
+1
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I give directly to the student run organizations I participated in as a student (though I make the donation through the alumni office so it gets counted for alumni participation on US News and World Report). I have been bouncing back and forth between the water polo team and the outdoor club. Usually I'll give to the outdoor club on years when I want to borrow a kayak or climbing gear when I'm in town for a weekend.
Actively choose not to give to the general fund or the academic departments because I strongly believe that tuition increases beyond inflation are unnecessary and detrimental. I did not get a 15% better education my senior year vs my freshman year despite the 6% per year tuition increases for incoming students.
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No ?*&@# way would I donate money to my school. I already blew enough money on tuition, which only doubled in the short time I attended.
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I went to a fairly inexpensive in-state school (University of Idaho) where one semester's tuition my freshman year was $800(!) in 1993. I was able to graduate with zero debt thanks to working throughout as well as some help from parents.
That said, I have given small amounts, usually between $100-$250 about every year. The school gave me a great start in life and I was able to comfortably survive, buy a house, and save, on meager salaries -- 22k-33k the first 8 years of my working career.
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Why are canadians irrate? I thought tuition in canada is very reasonable?
I do give back to my college but not always.
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I used to give pretty generously (at least it seemed to me) to the school where my wife and I both earned our MBAs. We had a great experience, met each other, and the credential from that university certainly helped us launch our careers. However, as the years went by, I felt much less inclined to give to this university because they already have a multibillion dollar endowment, and receive regular highly publicized multimillion dollar donations from other very wealthy alumni. So I basically said, "screw it, they don't need my money" and stopped a few years back. This is aside from the view that, is a university really a charity? I now give lots of my TIME to worthy causes, and very little money.
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I was also turned off by the fact that the INSTANT I graduated, they had their hand out.
Mine actually started calling the month before I graduated. Incessantly. Talk about a turn-off.
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Just a datapoint: many foundations give money to universities based on the percentage of alumni who donate to the university. So if you do support your university, an annual gift of $10 or $15 helps raise their alumni-donation percentage, which will be worth more to them than merely $10 or $15.
I grant that university education is not up there with saving starving children etc. in terms of urgency. Many of the charities we do support are probably not the most urgent there are. I do give money to an organization that provides health care in the poorest corners of the world (Partners in Health), but I undoubtedly could give more. However, I also do think my college does real good in the world, and I'm grateful for the alums who donated to make my education more affordable. Since I'm one of the lucky ones in the world — I have a savings account, I have investments, I have a job, and I'm not one of the starving children in a third-world country — it only seems reasonable to give rather than just take.
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I don't give because of the nickel and dime attitude on the students when I was there. For example, the most flagrant was wanting me to check into a hotel because they were too lazy to work past 3pm to check me out of my student housing. Treat your students with respect because eventually some of them might be in a position to donate large sums of money in the future.
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Why are canadians irrate? I thought tuition in canada is very reasonable?
I do give back to my college but not always.
Yes, but the taxes that subside tuition are not reasonable? I dunno, that's why I don't care if my education was subsidized by taxpayer money -- I am (and my parents are) high-tax payers.
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We've given to our undergrad alma mater in the past, but haven't in recent years since we felt the stewardship of the funds was lacking.
We have, however, given to my high school (public magnet) alumni association instead. While I no longer live in that state, education funding there has been absolutely gutted and I don't want to see the great education I got become unavailable to others who don't have the money for private school. This last year they had a campaign for specific technology needs and we happily gave to that since I remember using some of the technology and it was old when I was using it... in 1999.
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On the day of my dissertation defense (before I defended), the dean walked up to me and started panhandling for a donation! I told him I was on the pre-pay plan and he'd gotten all the money he was going to get out of me. Haven't donated anything and don't plan to. I was a college professor for a time and saw the financial tom-foolery of academia. Makes me even more sure of my decision not to give directly to the alumni association.
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I told him I was on the pre-pay plan
Love it -- did you really come up with that on the fly?
edit: to be fair, don't you usually get paid (very little) for a PHD?
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I rarely give to the universities I attended as they are private schools that have plenty of money. Maybe I'll toss them $50 once in a while, but nothing substantial.
My wife and I do provide a small merit based scholarship every year for one student at a local HS in a low income area. I received a similar scholarship when I graduated HS (a long time ago) which helped pay for room, board, and other expenses (my tuition was paid for by a scholarship), so I thought it would be a good idea to do the same for someone else.
I also donate to my old HS for certain projects that are not covered by tax money (refurbishing and old theater, etc). My wife went to an expensive prep school that is always asking for money (though I have no idea why), and we never donate to them.
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Fuck No! They are a business. It's like Honda asking me to donate more money to them because I like the car I bought 10 years ago. If they want more money for students, let them get their President's compensation package under control.
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Why are canadians irrate? I thought tuition in canada is very reasonable?
I do give back to my college but not always.
Yes, but the taxes that subside tuition are not reasonable? I dunno, that's why I don't care if my education was subsidized by taxpayer money -- I am (and my parents are) high-tax payers.
My tuition wasn't ridiculously high, but it was far from inexpensive. You also have to remember . . . bitching about things is a very Canadian past time.
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I don't give to my law school -- and don't intend to. I did not have a good experience there (aside from the good friends I still have) and don't like the what the law school education model has become. It's a racket and I can't bring myself to support it.
Undergrad, to date I've given little, but I absolutely intend to give more generously once I've paid off my law schoo loans. I owe almost everything I've become to my undergraduate experience and the academic scholarship I was awared after my freshman year. I want to earmark my donations for scholarships for students in the same program I benefitted from (the Honors Program). It was a life-saving game-changer for me, and I'd love to pay that forward to help make it a life-changer for someone else. I also intend to leave a legacy gift when I die (no kids, and I expect there will still be a fair amount of money in my retirement account even after 30 years of 4% drawdowns) for the same purpose, scholarships for deserving students in the Honors Program. So really, it's not so much about giving to the school (it's a public institution) but about giving to people who stand in the shoes I once stood in.
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I have given token amounts sometimes. I can't really decide what is the "right" thing to do, especially after reading all the above comments. But I don't think my schools (undergrad. and graduate) are going to suffer from me not donating, and right now I need the money more than they do.
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I give a fairly perfunctory amount every year ($50-75/yr). I had a very positive experience and mostly want to help how they are rated on alumni participation.
me too. I got $10k/yr in scholarships from the school and I had a great experience (I still ended up with A LOT of debt, but thanks to my degree I am able to pay it off pretty quickly). usually I earmark it specifically to my major department, because they were (and still are) fucking awesome, were largely responsible for said positive experience (as well as for the fact that I make good money today), and I know they will spend the money well.
it's also a D-III school so there isn't exorbitant spending on athletics that bothers me or anything. they did build a super fancy new student center with fitness facilities, etc., which is kind of annoying (when I went there everything was pretty old, the fitness facilities available were SUPER small and crappy, which I'm SO OKAY WITH!!! I wish they had just left it!) but not enough to make me stop giving a little, yet. probably a bigger issue that gives me some pause is that they're a Catholic institution, I am definitely NOT Catholic (although I am somewhat religious), and in my years there they had a few high-profile decisions that I DID NOT agree with. in the long run, though, I think it brought about a lot of good discussion. there's a lot of good interfaith discourse in general there, which is something I value highly, and it seems like the administration continues to be pretty introspective about "what it means to be a Catholic university." they actually just hired their first lay president... AND she's a woman! pretty cool.
I can see why people wouldn't want to, though, esp. in the "there are more worthy causes to give to" sense.
oh and I don't give to the school I where got my MS (huge D-I school with well-known football program), they get plenty of alumni support :)
Would you be more likely to give if there was something tangible you received in return such as scholarship named after your/your family and the opportunity to meet and mentor the students, or perhaps a named classroom/building/ bench/ fountain etc..?
If your alma mater worked at having a meaningful relationship with you post graduation that wasn't solely based on your donations would this have an impact on your desire to give? I,e- invitations to exclusive alumni events, occasional free tickets to games and musical performances, invitations to come back and speak with classrooms about your experience in your field, taking you out to lunch/ coffee to hear your input on current university initiatives and your experience while at the school.
Would love to hear any perspective on this as well.
To me, these suggestions are poor returns on investment and blatantly reduce the amount of money directed at the intended source. Some of the suggestions are also drawing on the egotistical personality types - I'm not a big fan of people who need to be the centre-of-attention to validate themselves. Accepting there are plenty of people who would be drawn in by these tactics, I don't know how many MMM readers would.
Some of the other things you mention - speaking to classrooms on field experience are much better suggestions. They are an offer of your free time and experience - which I believe are much better direction of resources.
agreed!!! I hate when anywhere tries to give me something for donating.
I would love to do the "come back and talk about your experience in your field" thing, I remember alumni doing this in my department and it was very helpful. plus I would love to catch up with my old professors, because they are pretty awesome. sadly I live 10 hours away and when I'm back in the area the scheduling doesn't work out... maybe one day!
ShortinSeattle (and others), taking out loans doesn't mean you weren't supported by alumni donations. The tuition price of the school does not reflect the full price of educating a student. For instance, if the tuition is $18,000 per year (just pulling a number out of a hat), the real cost of educating that student may well be $25,000 per year — or $36,000. Those extra thousands are covered by grants and donations.
And public funds. Unless you went to some ridiculous private school.
oooh, burn ;P
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A school isn't asking for donations because its mismanaging its budget. Every school intentionally budgets for a section of money which comes from donations. This allows people a tax-advantaged way to contribute to the school, and keeps tuition lower (I know it's still very high, I really know).
I would also caution focusing too much on the "efficiency" of an organization. There is truth to the saying that it "takes money to make money," and the people who work in administration and fundraising for an organization add a lot of value. Without people directly soliciting gifts, there would be no annual giving or alumni program, without which the school couldn't take on initiatives like expanding scholarship endowment and campus improvements, because they wouldn't have a donor base.
I'd suggest this TED talk about philanthropy for anyone who's interested: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong (http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pallotta_the_way_we_think_about_charity_is_dead_wrong)
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Just a datapoint: many foundations give money to universities based on the percentage of alumni who donate to the university. So if you do support your university, an annual gift of $10 or $15 helps raise their alumni-donation percentage, which will be worth more to them than merely $10 or $15.
I donate a small amount every single year for my college in part for this reason. I will continue to do so. Now that I'm on better financially footing, I'll up it, but less than I do to my main charity where I serve on the Board. DH does not believe in donating to our college, so he doesn't.
I've donated irregularly to my law school, swear I'm going to stop and then foolishly this year accepted a coffee invitation from a fundraising person when in town, and said I would donate something so I ought to follow through. (In the past I did some non-monetary, non-cold calling work for them, helping organized accepted student events, and have talked to them about it and other things.) But now I'm going to turn down any coffee invitations!
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I'm in the "I paid enough already" category on this one. My school is doing just fine without a donation from me. Maybe I was just a very sheltered, ignorant kid but I never even realized this was so prevalent until maybe 5 years out of college.
It still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not just charge full tuition? If less people attend, maybe they'll all be forced to reduce tuition prices.
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A school isn't asking for donations because its mismanaging its budget. Every school intentionally budgets for a section of money which comes from donations.
Cool, I forgot to put a line item in my own budget for donations to me. I'll post a GoFundme on Facebook when I'm behind on rent because nobody donated. Don't tell me I'm mismanaging my budget, though.
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You can include me in the "give small amounts annually" group. I graduated from a large public in-state school and felt, for the money, it was and continues to be a tremendous value.
As for the the crowd protesting use of university donations/tuition to fund athletics, I am not sure how each school operates but I know the athletics department at my school provides a significant contribution to the academics budget annually (in excess of $13 million) and is entirely self-sufficient (i.e. does not receive funds from the academics side of the university).
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I'm in the "I paid enough already" category on this one. My school is doing just fine without a donation from me. Maybe I was just a very sheltered, ignorant kid but I never even realized this was so prevalent until maybe 5 years out of college.
It still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not just charge full tuition? If less people attend, maybe they'll all be forced to reduce tuition prices.
Because all the other colleges don't charge full tuition. Any college that suddenly switched would see a drastic increase in tuition, and a drastic decrease in applications.
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A good number of the people on this thread seem to see their alma maters as an institutionalized version of the superconsumer, who will spend their donations unwisely.
My alma mater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch_College) closed in 2008 due to funding issues, and reopened 5 years later after reorganizing. It had a sad, measly endowment in the neighborhood of $10-20 million, which was not enough to see the school through their tough times. Part of the reason for this is that their alumni have a tendency to use their education and pursue careers with an emphasis on social justice, rather than remuneration. In their poor but noble career paths, it's always a struggle for the school to get generous donations.
So I do give once and awhile. I wish I felt like I could afford to give more.
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So let's say you raise tuition and fewer people attend. That actually loses money. Because there are economies of scale. Particularly in the subjects with smaller enrollments, for instance let's say Italian, Classics, Linguistics, Religious Studies, and Music Performance. There are usually 10-15 departments with smaller enrollments like this. They were puttering along with classes 2/3 full, but suddenly they're only 2/5 full. But you still have to pay the professors' salaries. So enrollment in those drops below the limit and you cut the programs. (You can fire even tenured professors if you're axing the whole program.) But suddenly you have a university without a lot of breadth — more of a glorified trade school, with an attenuated liberal arts program. So fewer students are attracted to the university, and your enrollments drop again. And the smaller programs tend to be populated by the more high-achieving students, who not incidentally bring National Merit Scholarships and the like. So suddenly they're going elsewhere, and your rankings drop as well as your enrollements. Meanwhile you have all those dorms to maintain, even if they're partially empty. You want to sell them off? If you're a state school, that idea is going to take some beating from the legislature -- "Why have you lost enrollments? Are you not doing your job properly?" -- and who's going to buy a high-rise dorm on the edge of a campus?
In short, universities already have figured out how to balance tuition and enrollment to maximize things, and they're working as hard as they can to get those things in line. Generally the larger the university, the more they can utilize economies of scale. Reducing student numbers very often makes things more expensive.
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I'm in the "I paid enough already" category on this one. My school is doing just fine without a donation from me. Maybe I was just a very sheltered, ignorant kid but I never even realized this was so prevalent until maybe 5 years out of college.
It still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not just charge full tuition? If less people attend, maybe they'll all be forced to reduce tuition prices.
Because all the other colleges don't charge full tuition. Any college that suddenly switched would see a drastic increase in tuition, and a drastic decrease in applications.
I agree it would be tough to implement. I just have a hard time understanding why colleges need donations. It seems to me this is only fueling higher tuition costs.
Step 1 - Receive donations.
Step 2 - Spend more on buildings, technology, etc.
Step 3 - Hire expensive new teachers.
Step 4 - Charge more tuition to keep up with fancy new costs.
If you give someone an increased budget (i.e.-more money) they will find a way to fill it up with new needs. Then if the donations don't keep coming they will need more operating revenue from tuition.
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A good number of the people on this thread seem to see their alma maters as an institutionalized version of the superconsumer, who will spend their donations unwisely.
My alma mater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch_College) closed in 2008 due to funding issues, and reopened 5 years later after reorganizing. It had a sad, measly endowment in the neighborhood of $10-20 million, which was not enough to see the school through their tough times. Part of the reason for this is that their alumni have a tendency to use their education and pursue careers with an emphasis on social justice, rather than remuneration. In their poor but noble career paths, it's always a struggle for the school to get generous donations.
So I do give once and awhile. I wish I felt like I could afford to give more.
If these numbers are correct per you link....There seems to be a severe imbalance Academic staff 29[1]
Admin. staff 84[1]
Students 200[1]
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A good number of the people on this thread seem to see their alma maters as an institutionalized version of the superconsumer, who will spend their donations unwisely.
My alma mater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch_College) closed in 2008 due to funding issues, and reopened 5 years later after reorganizing. It had a sad, measly endowment in the neighborhood of $10-20 million, which was not enough to see the school through their tough times. Part of the reason for this is that their alumni have a tendency to use their education and pursue careers with an emphasis on social justice, rather than remuneration. In their poor but noble career paths, it's always a struggle for the school to get generous donations.
So I do give once and awhile. I wish I felt like I could afford to give more.
If these numbers are correct per you link....There seems to be a severe imbalance Academic staff 29[1]
Admin. staff 84[1]
Students 200[1]
The school reopened in 2013 with a single class (i.e., all the students are Freshmen.) They lost their accreditation as a matter of course -- to earn it back, they have to have a certain number of that single first class stick around and graduate. How do you lure students to a school when your pitch is, "Come to Antioch, where our campus is falling apart and after you've invested 4 years of your life, maybe your degree will be accredited!"? Give everyone a full ride, which I believe most of them have. Even then, that's a big investment of your time and emotions to risk having a worthless degree. It's no surprise that the current student body is small.
The campus is also designed to have a student body of I believe 2,000 students. There is a lot of overhead for the campus as they try to regrow the enrollment, which accounts for much of the apparent administrative bloat. Also, Antioch is aggressively renovating. When I went there in the mid-2000s, many of the buildings were in poor repair, with old wiring (couldn't get Internet in my Freshman dorms) and black mold. Now they've torn them down and are determining what to rebuild.
The student/teacher ratio is probably a little low right now but Antioch always had small classes when I went there. The largest class I had had perhaps 35 students in it. The smallest classes I had (which were absolutely wonderful) had less than 10, as low as perhaps 4 students. I imagine that's less than ideal for the school, but the point is that there are no state school research university style classes with 200 students in an auditorium where the professor doesn't learn your name and you only interact with a TA.
Antioch is an interesting case study. Their heyday was over by the 70s, and they had a long decline, which is very much as Cheddar Stacker descibed.
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I'm in the "I paid enough already" category on this one. My school is doing just fine without a donation from me. Maybe I was just a very sheltered, ignorant kid but I never even realized this was so prevalent until maybe 5 years out of college.
It still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why not just charge full tuition? If less people attend, maybe they'll all be forced to reduce tuition prices.
Because all the other colleges don't charge full tuition. Any college that suddenly switched would see a drastic increase in tuition, and a drastic decrease in applications.
I agree it would be tough to implement. I just have a hard time understanding why colleges need donations. It seems to me this is only fueling higher tuition costs.
Step 1 - Receive donations.
Step 2 - Spend more on buildings, technology, etc.
Step 3 - Hire expensive new teachers.
Step 4 - Charge more tuition to keep up with fancy new costs.
If you give someone an increased budget (i.e.-more money) they will find a way to fill it up with new needs. Then if the donations don't keep coming they will need more operating revenue from tuition.
You're assuming that donations go into capital costs for which the only source of maintenance funding is tuition. This is one destination for donations, but there are many others: scholarships for needy or meritorious students, support for student activities, for an endowment, startup packages for professors who will later bring in grant money, etc. These other uses of the money can have no impact on tuition and some are even investments which will increase funding to the school.
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My alma mater pays for three football coaches whom they fired, is constantly building new facilities and 'upgrading' things that are perfectly fine. Because of this, I feel like they need to learn how to manage their own money before I give them mine.
However, if you benefited from a scholarship or some other program, I could see how you would want to give back. To each their own.
Most larger schools have totally self funded athletic departments so this isn't a great argument. The ticket revenue & media revenue pay for all the sports and both past & present coach's.
I just tell them that I did contribute by paying $75k to send my daughter to our alma mater.
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Step 3 - Hire expensive new teachers.
Step 4 - Charge more tuition to keep up with fancy new costs.
Let's get one thing straight here . . . professors are not teachers. Teaching is not the reason they're at the university, as most of them demonstrate daily in the classes they lead. Research is what the professors do. This is why so many profs can hardly speak English, are unable to answer questions asked in class, and generally suck. I can count on two fingers the number of professors who were talented teachers that I ran into in my university.
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Step 3 - Hire expensive new teachers.
Step 4 - Charge more tuition to keep up with fancy new costs.
Let's get one thing straight here . . . professors are not teachers. Teaching is not the reason they're at the university, as most of them demonstrate daily in the classes they lead. Research is what the professors do. This is why so many profs can hardly speak English, are unable to answer questions asked in class, and generally suck. I can count on two fingers the number of professors who were talented teachers that I ran into in my university.
you are describing a particular kind of university. I went to a school with 6,000 students for my undergrad, and a huge, well-known, "R1" (although they don't use those designations anymore) type of university for my MS. HUGE difference. if you can pay for it, I actually would highly recommend using each type of school for those purposes (small school for undergrad, big research school for research grad degree), although unfortunately small schools are usually private and stupidly expensive.
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My undergraduate institution gave very generous scholarships to my wife and me, which allowed both of us to graduate without any debt. I would love to have an opportunity to pay that forward to future students by donating to the scholarship fund. The school seems to be very well managed right now. I saw a news article not too long ago praising them for being one of the only schools in the country to increase its full-time faculty and decrease the size of administration over the past decade, all while increasing student retention rates and keeping tuition under control.
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I'm a professor and I'm surprised to hear that hardly any of the teachers speak English. Do you mean they're foreigners, or do you mean their native-speakers whose English is bad. Is my English faulty or incomprehensible?
What I can say is that I'm at an R1 (a "research" school) and 80% of my week is taken up with teaching and its responsibilities (prep, grading, advising students, etc. etc.) The other 20% is taken up by meetings and admin. For instance, I'm on the committee that students appeal to when they've gotten a long string of F's and are about to be kicked out; that takes up one afternoon per week. The research that is a required part of my job, I do in the summers — when, incidentally, I get no salary.
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I did a systems and computing degree in engineering. I'd say about 10% of the teachers were English as a first language . . . At least three were barely English as a language at all. One prof was hilarious to listen to. He talked about mad Mexican models for 20 minutes until I figured out it was mathematical models. Kinda just bailed on class and learned from the text after that.
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I give targeted amounts to the library and to the department I graduated from. I loved my time in school and want things to keep getting better for future students.
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Unfortunately for my alma mater, I am now an employee and see all the ways big and small we waste students' money. For example, absurd procurement practices that result in crazy expensive supplies and furniture, a multi million dollar student center with an inept staff, and a president making half a million dollars, but since he's a priest the money goes as a donation to his order. Not to mention the misogyny and lack of women in leadership. No I will not be donating, now or ever.
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I told him I was on the pre-pay plan
Love it -- did you really come up with that on the fly?
edit: to be fair, don't you usually get paid (very little) for a PHD?
I'm a smart ass by nature, so coming up with that on the spot was easy :-)
I did okay as an academic, but better now as a self-employed person. My beef is with all they spend on things like administrators - way to many of those and other nonsense.
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My college's president actually managed to drop a plug for donations into the graduation speech of the class before me. I know the president's job is chief fundraiser, but that was pathetic. Tuition where I went is near what houses cost in the area.
I had a good experience at college, but feel that I already paid the price agreed to at the time (even though looking back it was high) so I do not need to throw more money at them.
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I'm loving the wide range of thoughts on this topic. Wondering if for those of you who are less likely to give back, if certain variables would make a difference in your desire to
such as; who the person is that is asking you to consider making a gift, how they asked you; i,e in person over lunch/ coffee or less directly by either phone or letter, and lastly
if you had maintained a close connection to the school post graduation via trips back, communications with faculty and students, and meaningful communications from the school that were not just the once a year call asking for donations, if this would likely have made a difference. I imagine that it would be a very annoying scenario to have the only communication from your school be a yearly call just asking for a donation. I am fortunate that this has not been the case for me, but through reading this thread I am realizing that it may be for others.
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I'm loving the wide range of thoughts on this topic. Wondering if for those of you who are less likely to give back, if certain variables would make a difference in your desire to
such as; who the person is that is asking you to consider making a gift, how they asked you; i,e in person over lunch/ coffee or less directly by either phone or letter, and lastly
if you had maintained a close connection to the school post graduation via trips back, communications with faculty and students, and meaningful communications from the school that were not just the once a year call asking for donations, if this would likely have made a difference. I imagine that it would be a very annoying scenario to have the only communication from your school be a yearly call just asking for a donation. I am fortunate that this has not been the case for me, but through reading this thread I am realizing that it may be for others.
You sound like you work for an alumni giving office. :-)
I know of one item that would make me not only give to my school, but call up every one of my old college friends and ask them to give. If the school said, "We think the rising costs of college is a problem. As such, we will only be increasing tuition this year by inflation (or not increasing at all). We challenge other schools to keep their tuition increases low and we will continue to be leaders in this area"
I would redirect quite a bit of my charitable giving back to my school, I would become active in the alumni association, and I would volunteer with alumni interviews of prospective students. As it is though, my school is not that great a value and I don't encourage many students to go there (despite the fact that I love my school and had an amazing time there and got a great job because I went there). At today's tuition rates, it is not a good value. They are as expensive as an Ivy League school without the prestige and without the endowment to give full ride scholarships to worthy needy students. I think there are better choices for a student's education (2 years community college followed by 2 years of state school, possibly with a masters afterward mostly paid for by doing research).
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Do you give back to your College/University?
I'd rather give scholarships to students who are trying to afford the cost of the university.
There are few things more annoying than the U.S. Naval Academy's relentless alumni fund drives.
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I'm loving the wide range of thoughts on this topic. Wondering if for those of you who are less likely to give back, if certain variables would make a difference in your desire to
such as; who the person is that is asking you to consider making a gift, how they asked you; i,e in person over lunch/ coffee or less directly by either phone or letter, and lastly
if you had maintained a close connection to the school post graduation via trips back, communications with faculty and students, and meaningful communications from the school that were not just the once a year call asking for donations, if this would likely have made a difference. I imagine that it would be a very annoying scenario to have the only communication from your school be a yearly call just asking for a donation. I am fortunate that this has not been the case for me, but through reading this thread I am realizing that it may be for others.
Well my dissociation started when they got involved with social agenda du jour.
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Sort of, I give back my labor because they're now my employer <grin>
They still send me all sorts of requests to donate real cash, though. Knowing what their endowment is, I find this ridiculous and abstain. I do some amount of charitable giving each year, but I don't consider my alma mater a charity.
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I went to a Canadian public university and then moved to the USA for grad school. Getting some perspective on what American tuition can cost makes me want to hug my (large, soulless) alma mater and donate, at least to need-based scholarships -- the student experience wasn't exactly optimized, but I got a great education at a great value.
I got a great education at the American school I went to for grad school too, with a stipend and tuition waiver, but as a private institution with a huge endowment, I feel less inclined to give there.
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No, I don't. I think I did once.
So, here's the thing. I went to a very nice, very expensive private school. I worked, got scholarships and loans, and left only about $11k in debt in the early 90's, but most of that was my 3 year ROTC scholarship.
I loved my school, had a great time there, but it's crazy expensive. I worked my butt off. And I have two children who might actually want to go to college some day. So - hey, if one of my boys goes there, then consider his tuition my gift to the school.
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No. i went to a public university in a high tax state. They can figure it out. I'll donate money to buy limbs for people who had them blown off in the Middle East.
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One thing I'll mention about all of this: You're usually not donating to the university, but to the foundation that supports the school. In a public university, your money is separate from the general pot of funds everyone is referencing as "wasteful spending" and tuition dollars.
There's some targeted good that can come from donations to a university, its generally how they fund scholarships and handle real estate transactions outside of government red tape.
That being said, I still don't give mine much. I just have other charitable interests
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An Australian here- government funding means they recieve a portion my taxes, and this is sufficient. Quite frankly, they are principally about making money, and education is secondary. Sounds harsh, but that's the harsh fact of the matter.
However, given that I recieved some modest funding from a couple of Trusts for conference attendance, purchase of equipment for research, etc. which were certainly generous and not entirely necessary as I was financially fine at the time -- I may give a small contribution to each of the relevant Trusts if I'm feeling generous.
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Definitely not. I didn't like how they ran the place while I was there. No idea what they're like now, but they're not getting any money from me.
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Absolutely not. I went to an expensive fancypants private school. They ran it (and charged for it) like it was a business. I don't donate money to any other business that I like, I see no reason why college should be any different.
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Absolutely not. I went to an expensive fancypants private school. They ran it (and charged for it) like it was a business. I don't donate money to any other business that I like, I see no reason why college should be any different.
Hey, some of the best times I ever had as a kid were at Chuck E. Cheese's. And they give small scholarships to kids who bring in good report cards (just a token amount). So I should probably start donating.
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Absolutely not. I went to an expensive fancypants private school. They ran it (and charged for it) like it was a business. I don't donate money to any other business that I like, I see no reason why college should be any different.
Hey, some of the best times I ever had as a kid were at Chuck E. Cheese's. And they give small scholarships to kids who bring in good report cards (just a token amount). So I should probably start donating.
Maybe you can get your name engraved on the ball pit.
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Would you regularly donate money to a former employer because you valued the knowledge you gained and experience you had during your time there? Even if they were insanely profitable on their own? And profited off of you while you were there?
It seems to me that the idea of donating to your college is an artifact of an older time when schools truly behaved more like nonprofit organizations. But today schools are big businesses with massive endowments, revenue streams, and lobbying activities. They can take care of themselves.
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Absolutely not. I went to an expensive fancypants private school. They ran it (and charged for it) like it was a business. I don't donate money to any other business that I like, I see no reason why college should be any different.
Hey, some of the best times I ever had as a kid were at Chuck E. Cheese's. And they give small scholarships to kids who bring in good report cards (just a token amount). So I should probably start donating.
Maybe you can get your name engraved on the ball pit.
Whacka-dragoncar!
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Peter Singer of The Life You Can Save is pretty vehemently against giving to universities I believe. Endowing a scholarship does seem meaningful but blanket giving? The money is needed more elsewhere. If it matters to you, keep it up, but think carefully about whether this is the cause you want to be supporting.
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Nope. If I did, it would have probably went to the $450 Million dollar football stadium upgrade they are currently doing...
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I don't donate to my alma mater and have no intention of doing so in the future. There are innumerable other causes where my contribution is both more needed and more meaningful. I think the tuition paid was more than adequate. Of course, while my particular institution did indeed provide excellent teaching, it also provided a great deal of top-notch instruction in the ways of anti-mustachianism. I can't help but smile at the irony each time I receive one of the many emails and letters telling me how much they really truly need my contribution. They must really be strapped for cash, except for that $32 billion endowment that never seems to be mentioned in those letters.
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Absolutely not. I went to an expensive fancypants private school. They ran it (and charged for it) like it was a business. I don't donate money to any other business that I like, I see no reason why college should be any different.
Hey, some of the best times I ever had as a kid were at Chuck E. Cheese's. And they give small scholarships to kids who bring in good report cards (just a token amount). So I should probably start donating.
Maybe you can get your name engraved on the ball pit.
Whacka-dragoncar!
In that case, I should be getting royalties. People would be lining up with cash in hand!
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My Alma mater (business school) asked me at least once a year after I graduated for donations, which then escalated after I then got my MBA, always asking for donations at the "President's" or "Chairmen's" level (aka $1,000+/$10,000+). They were aware that the job I was in averaged six figures, and thought I should share the wealth with "the university that made the investment* to help me get to where I am".
I remember a particular phone call from a fundraiser around my 10th year from graduation. He asked for money for the general fund, to help "provide scholarships to invest in the future great business leaders". I asked what percent of tuition most students received as scholarships, and he said they usually get a 50% scholarship (plus federal grants). I thought that sounded wonderful. I asked what percent of salary they would consider appropriate for an alumni, and he said they generally recommend 2%. I said that sounded fair. I said I earned $150,000. The eager fundraiser said "Wow. That's great! So today you'll be making a $3,000 donation?"
I told him, "Well, let me tell you a story first. You're probably aware your 50% average figure come from the university offering full ride scholarships to the top 3 applicants from every state, and generous scholarships to the next few applications. I graduated high school with a 3.7 GPA from a very great high school and scored a 1380 on my SATs. Unfortunately, our high school was very competitive in a very competitive state, and I wasn't the top student in my high school who applied, much less one of the top 3 for my state, so I didn't get a penny in scholarships from the university. I had to work part time during school, live off campus, and use my childhood savings to cover the $120,000 you charged me during my 4 years there. During my time there, I got to listen to a fellow classmate from New Mexico, who proudly talked about how he graduated high school in juvie during his 6 year incarceration and got an 1120 on his SATs, who would rant about how he got a full tuition scholarship, free on-campus room & board, and was given an incredibly well paying school job, all due solely to his adding "geographic diversity" to our school. You invested nothing in me. You invested at least $250,000 in him. 10 years later, I now make $150,000 a year in a growing career. I know for a fact he makes $30,000 a year as a low-level manager in some $%#^ local business that he's content to be in for the rest of his life. As a business school, you should know you only earn the dividends off your investments. You invested nothing in me, so you'll get nothing from me. But best of luck in collecting $600/year from my classmate -- in a little over 400 years your investment in one of the 'future great business leaders' should fully pay off".
They haven't called back since.
It was well established during my time in university and by fellow classmates that most of the people receiving "merit" scholarships at our school were the people with the least merit. As we've succeeded in our own respective careers, we've generally agreed on the same bottom line -- if your university didn't give to you, they shouldn't expect you to give back. Only those who received from strangers should be expected to pay it forward to the next generation of strangers. The scholarship "fund" should be making investments like any other fund -- invest your dollars in the investments (applicants) who have the best potential to produce a return (not necessarily earn a lot of money, but also those who make meaningful contributions in art/science/business to humanity)
* - As others have pointed out, I HATE that this is the new buzz word, usually for things that have nothing to do with an actual investment.
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I received lots of scholarships and grants through my alumni office as a student. Enough so that it made it possible for me to attend the state school I went to.
I can say the education I received made a big difference in my life, so now I do donate to the alumni scholarships each year.
The school I went to has lots of students who are really struggling financially, and every little bit of scholarships/grants they can get make a big impact on their lives/future earning power.
While I think there are plenty of other causes that also deserve my money, education is an empowering experience that yields many good results as well.
I also donate to my small catholic elementary school, because I found out as an adult that my tuition was heavily subsidized by church/alumni donations. I was blown away to find out that someone I didn't know found a catholic education important enough to help a low income family pay for it.
I can't pay any of these people back so I try to pay it forward.