Author Topic: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?  (Read 15027 times)

CmFtns

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Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« on: June 06, 2016, 11:25:34 AM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 11:28:05 AM by comfyfutons »

prognastat

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2016, 11:30:02 AM »
I still like to maximize my income since if I can get more for the same work in hours why not? It would mean even if the difference isn't huge that FIRE would be closer or if you plan working until the same date you have more available in FIRE and thus a bigger safety net for whatever may happen.

FIPurpose

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2016, 11:34:06 AM »
I've been in a similar position. I plan to leave my current company in about a year's time. There is one more bonus review in between then, but the toughest time to keep a straight face is when the boss asks for my 5 year career plan. Hmm, I mostly just skirt the question and talk more about what I'm planning to do over the next year, that seems to give him enough material to not think about it.

Exflyboy

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2016, 11:34:45 AM »
I think if that works for you and your life goals thats perfectly fine. Heck some people are not interested in working hard for an education and are happy with a lower level of earning potential as a result.. Other wants PhD's and to be CEO's of megga corps.. Each to their own.

Mustachians come in a similar wide range of shapes, although the bias seems to be on the middle income upwards socio -economic spectrum.

Certainly in retirement with my hobby job I really don't care too much about the money.. ironically this usually means you get paid more because you can afford to walk away.

For me personally with a bunch of qualifications and thousands of hours spent pouring over the books.. Well dammit I want a decent starting salary commensurate with that work.. After 25 or so years of being an over-achiever I would not have been happy to be underpaid.

But thats just me. If you are happy to work till your early 60's and you live on a fraction of what you make, your right the difference between a 2% and a 5% raise is not all that significant.

meghan88

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2016, 12:36:34 PM »
I still like to maximize my income since if I can get more for the same work in hours why not? It would mean even if the difference isn't huge that FIRE would be closer or if you plan working until the same date you have more available in FIRE and thus a bigger safety net for whatever may happen.
+1.  Gets you to the goal line faster and everything else such as raises and bonuses are based off it.  So the game is worth playing IMO.

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »
its not a big deal once you get about halfway in years to fire you really stop caring about extra income and just kinda dont care ... at least thats how i am.  do i like more money yes does it expedite FIRE not really very much any more. 

MrsDinero

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2016, 01:25:25 PM »
While I don't need any more pay raises, I do expect them from my company.  To me it isn't about making more (although I'm never going to say no to a pay increase) it is about being compensated and recognized for the great job I am doing within the company. 

tonysemail

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2016, 01:35:03 PM »
its not a big deal once you get about halfway in years to fire you really stop caring about extra income and just kinda dont care ... at least thats how i am.  do i like more money yes does it expedite FIRE not really very much any more.

me too. 
there's definitely a point of diminishing returns.
more money just gets stashed away and it doesn't make me feel any happier to get a 5% raise.

there's a strategic element at megacorp.
maybe you work at a place that has 5% layoffs every year.
Then go ahead and tank away if you want that severance package.

COlady

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2016, 01:58:16 PM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

I understand what you're saying but at the same time I think you're perpetuating the stereotype of your generation. I'm not too much older than you (32) but I've busted my butt to get to where I am.  When I was 25 with no responsibilities outside of work I was working overtime (50-60 hours per week) plus studying for the CPA in my very little spare time. But more than money, I earned respect. People still refer to me as a very hard worker years later and I strongly believe that I wouldn't be where I am if my pretty cushy job had I not worked my butt off for the first 7 years of my career. Just my take.

COlady

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2016, 01:58:45 PM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

What do you do for work??

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2016, 02:11:08 PM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

I understand what you're saying but at the same time I think you're perpetuating the stereotype of your generation. I'm not too much older than you (32) but I've busted my butt to get to where I am.  When I was 25 with no responsibilities outside of work I was working overtime (50-60 hours per week) plus studying for the CPA in my very little spare time. But more than money, I earned respect. People still refer to me as a very hard worker years later and I strongly believe that I wouldn't be where I am if my pretty cushy job had I not worked my butt off for the first 7 years of my career. Just my take.

if you're 32 you're in the OPs generation. i'm 29 these sterotypes of the younger generation being lazy have persisted throughout all generations coming up.  everyone has different drive and ambition and not taking on additional responsiblity works for some.  it doesnt work for me.  but i dont really work all that hard and still am successful in my chosen career.

Brokenreign

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2016, 03:16:08 PM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

I understand what you're saying but at the same time I think you're perpetuating the stereotype of your generation. I'm not too much older than you (32) but I've busted my butt to get to where I am.  When I was 25 with no responsibilities outside of work I was working overtime (50-60 hours per week) plus studying for the CPA in my very little spare time. But more than money, I earned respect. People still refer to me as a very hard worker years later and I strongly believe that I wouldn't be where I am if my pretty cushy job had I not worked my butt off for the first 7 years of my career. Just my take.

I'm a CPA as well but am in the same boat as the OP. I don't derive a lot of satisfaction from corporate employment (beyond the pay) and don't particularly care how well respected am. If I'm not being randomly assaulted by strangers in the hall, that is a sufficient level of popularity. I understand that many people derive different types of satisfaction from employment besides just money though. Takes all types to make the world go round! Except for people who talk in theatres or try to initiate conversation when you're wearing headphones on a plane. Fuck them

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat OP! When you get close enough to the end, scrambling for an extra 2% for another year or two really doesn't make a difference. These feelings of indifference get stronger the closer you get. On a more positive note, my blood pressure decreases daily.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2016, 03:27:54 PM »
While I don't need any more pay raises, I do expect them from my company.  To me it isn't about making more (although I'm never going to say no to a pay increase) it is about being compensated and recognized for the great job I am doing within the company. 

This is basically my feeling. I expect to be compensated fairly for the work I do. At the same time, I'm quite happy with my current compensation and job responsibilities, so I'm not in any major rush to increase either of those things.

CmFtns

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2016, 07:52:19 PM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

What do you do for work??

Software Engineer

I'm not lazy... it's just that I don't really care about whatever microscopic contribution i make to giant mega software project. I think this might stem from starting my job and at the same time discovering MMM... So I never got a chance to work without knowing that I wasn't going to have a 30 year career to work toward.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2016, 08:01:08 PM by comfyfutons »

JLee

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2016, 08:06:26 PM »
I tripled my income in the last three years -- I absolutely care about raises, and will for the foreseeable future. The more I earn, the faster I will be free.

Zamboni

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2016, 09:21:40 PM »
I moderately care about the raise but not at all about the review. Unless you are not doing your job, or your boss is an asshat, you should get a decent review.

But who cares? Do you want a promotion? I don't unless it comes with a really big raise (like 20+%). Otherwise I just don't want the headaches. I'm way past caring. Let me alone so I can do my job, give me the same piddly raise you are giving everyone this year, and please don't even bother with the review circus.

Unfortunately good reviews don't always come with good raises, great work doesn't always lead to a great review, and the people who do the best job and might get the best reviews are not always the highest paid. Sad, but true.

Soon I will be in "I need to be paid more or I'm gone" mode. Ironically at that point I won't need the money at all, so it will be a bit of a game. It's a few years off, but something to look forward to.

Fishindude

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 05:50:35 AM »
Speaking as an employer.  Someone that doesn't care and can't be motivated by money likely won't be much of a contributor and I'd be looking to replace them or stick them in a corner somewhere that they couldn't hurt the bottom line or screw up a client relationship.
You should switch jobs to something you enjoy.

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2016, 06:00:39 AM »
Speaking as an employer.  Someone that doesn't care and can't be motivated by money likely won't be much of a contributor and I'd be looking to replace them or stick them in a corner somewhere that they couldn't hurt the bottom line or screw up a client relationship.
You should switch jobs to something you enjoy.

not caring about a raise (which monetary raises are pretty worthless to me i want more time off <- this i would care about)  and showing you dont care about the raise are 2 entirely different things. 

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2016, 06:00:53 AM »
Hell yea, every extra dollar I earn means FI that much sooner :)

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 06:09:21 AM »
Hell yea, every extra dollar I earn means FI that much sooner :)

how far along are you?  when i add an extra 5-10k to my taxable account it cuts nothing off my FIRE date as far as the year is concerned.  and i guess i may be in a unique situation that i have to quit on Jan 3. b/c of how my company ESOP/bonuses are managed, so cutting a week or a month off doesnt really work for me its a full year each time i decide to work past the 3rd in my mind.  and my company ESOP is the main driving force behind FIRE, i dont understand why anyone works here past 20 years.  and if you save anything on your own its easy to be done in 15 or less.  also i'm pretty sure i'll be OMY'ing at that point anyways b/c the ESOP will be growing at over 200k annually in today dollars based on past performance

Freedomin5

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 06:10:56 AM »
I don't care so much about performance reviews or raises as much as I do about doing a good job. The company hired me to do a job, and they pay me to do so. I have a responsibility to do my best in serving my clients. If I were a client and if I were paying a buttload of money for services, I would hope that the person serving me was giving their best. So for me it's more of an issue of integrity (internal motivation) rather than external review or external financial reward. Obviously, if someone is willing to pay me to work according to my values and integrity, I wouldn't say no...

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 07:51:40 AM »
Hell yea, every extra dollar I earn means FI that much sooner :)

how far along are you?  when i add an extra 5-10k to my taxable account it cuts nothing off my FIRE date as far as the year is concerned.  and i guess i may be in a unique situation that i have to quit on Jan 3. b/c of how my company ESOP/bonuses are managed, so cutting a week or a month off doesnt really work for me its a full year each time i decide to work past the 3rd in my mind.  and my company ESOP is the main driving force behind FIRE, i dont understand why anyone works here past 20 years.  and if you save anything on your own its easy to be done in 15 or less.  also i'm pretty sure i'll be OMY'ing at that point anyways b/c the ESOP will be growing at over 200k annually in today dollars based on past performance

I'm only @ ~20% to my FI $ amount. Likely another 6 years before barebone FI and 8-9 till I can completely stop working.

brute

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 07:56:24 AM »
I care about them. If I'm going to work for someone, I'm going to do my best. If there's a legitimate complaint about your performance, it matters. If your boss is being a dick and you're working your best, then no, I wouldn't care. And I'd find a new job too.

JLee

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 08:11:27 AM »
Hell yea, every extra dollar I earn means FI that much sooner :)

how far along are you?  when i add an extra 5-10k to my taxable account it cuts nothing off my FIRE date as far as the year is concerned.  and i guess i may be in a unique situation that i have to quit on Jan 3. b/c of how my company ESOP/bonuses are managed, so cutting a week or a month off doesnt really work for me its a full year each time i decide to work past the 3rd in my mind.  and my company ESOP is the main driving force behind FIRE, i dont understand why anyone works here past 20 years.  and if you save anything on your own its easy to be done in 15 or less.  also i'm pretty sure i'll be OMY'ing at that point anyways b/c the ESOP will be growing at over 200k annually in today dollars based on past performance

For what it's worth, I'm sure most of us here don't have a $200k/year ESOP.  A $5-10k/year income differential, especially repeated over a few years, makes a huge difference.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2016, 08:13:00 AM »
Being good at what I do and being pleasant to be around are things that are important to me, whether or not I'm being paid for it. And as someone else mentioned, a raise means closer to FI, so naturally, I care :)

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2016, 08:15:22 AM »
Hell yea, every extra dollar I earn means FI that much sooner :)

how far along are you?  when i add an extra 5-10k to my taxable account it cuts nothing off my FIRE date as far as the year is concerned.  and i guess i may be in a unique situation that i have to quit on Jan 3. b/c of how my company ESOP/bonuses are managed, so cutting a week or a month off doesnt really work for me its a full year each time i decide to work past the 3rd in my mind.  and my company ESOP is the main driving force behind FIRE, i dont understand why anyone works here past 20 years.  and if you save anything on your own its easy to be done in 15 or less.  also i'm pretty sure i'll be OMY'ing at that point anyways b/c the ESOP will be growing at over 200k annually in today dollars based on past performance

For what it's worth, I'm sure most of us here don't have a $200k/year ESOP.  A $5-10k/year income differential, especially repeated over a few years, makes a huge difference.

that comment was directed at my coworkers and company not these forums. haha.  i understand most people dont have that at their disposal.  it doesnt grow at that rate til you've been at my company about 15 years or so... and by 30 you're likely pulling in over 1MM in gains. just by my projections it could all go enron but i doubt it.

Manguy888

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2016, 08:16:35 AM »
I think we are conflating the review process and work ethic. I don't think the OP is saying he/she doesn't want to do a good job.

At the last megacorp I worked at, the yearly review process was an art in itself. If you wanted to do well you had to spend a lot of time writing up your goals and making them challenging enough to seem significant but not so challenging that you failed to meet them. You learned the buzz words you needed to add into your write up. It was a huge pain, completed inside terrible software systems. Once I got on firm financial footing - with the help of this community - one of the luxuries I allowed myself was to not care about this process anymore. I just did the minimum and focused on my actual work, which I liked. It was glorious.

What I think the OP is implying is that they do not think this game is worth the extra 1% or so raise they may get by doing all that work. I felt the exact same way.

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2016, 08:21:00 AM »
I think we are conflating the review process and work ethic. I don't think the OP is saying he/she doesn't want to do a good job.

At the last megacorp I worked at, the yearly review process was an art in itself. If you wanted to do well you had to spend a lot of time writing up your goals and making them challenging enough to seem significant but not so challenging that you failed to meet them. You learned the buzz words you needed to add into your write up. It was a huge pain, completed inside terrible software systems. Once I got on firm financial footing - with the help of this community - one of the luxuries I allowed myself was to not care about this process anymore. I just did the minimum and focused on my actual work, which I liked. It was glorious.

What I think the OP is implying is that they do not think this game is worth the extra 1% or so raise they may get by doing all that work. I felt the exact same way.

as with compounding your investments compounding your salary is similar.  caring and getting that extra 1-3% in years 1-5 is more valuable than getting it in years 5-10.

Jeremy E.

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2016, 08:29:25 AM »
MMM talks about not only lowering expenses, but also maximizing income. He does say lowering expenses is more effective, but both are very helpful to build your stache

Schaefer Light

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2016, 08:30:11 AM »
The more money I have invested, the less I care about getting a raise or promotion.

Gyosho

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2016, 08:55:41 AM »
I tripled my income in the last three years -- I absolutely care about raises, and will for the foreseeable future. The more I earn, the faster I will be free.

This is one way to look at it, but another way - the way I took personally - is to streamline my life so my expenses are low, save as much money as possible, and not stress about work, other than always trying to do my best within my life circumstances at the time.

I have tracked my salary and net worth growth from 2002 to 2015 - my salary growth averaged 3.97% per year, while my net worth has grown an average of 16.76% per year! This spreadsheet and graph has been completely eye-opening! It's so easy to see which is the tortoise and which is the hare.

Maybe you could cut some expenses and be free now?

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2016, 09:09:51 AM »
The more money I have invested, the less I care about getting a raise or promotion.

correct.  i think this is really the point here.  i think most of us care about our jobs to some extent and want to do well but just like "senioritis" from high school or college.  it reaches a point of diminishing returns and you're really just waiting for the time to come /// all that compounding just takes time.  once you have made it 50% in years not dollars til FIRE there isnt alot a few extra grand will do.

rockstache

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2016, 09:24:39 AM »
I sure do care about the raises. I would only care about the review itself if my boss had anything negative to say. He doesn't (thus far), so I nod and smile and go back to my cube to dream of FIRE.

SimplyMarvie

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2016, 09:27:09 AM »
I work for the Government and am unionized to boot, so my performance review is just a very long, very involved creative writing exercise (unless I'm up for promotion, in which case it might make me slightly more or less likely to get promoted.) My part in this is very small, and to be honest I've always wondered what would happen if I just... didn't. Like, didn't write bullet points or a narrative and deflected all attempts to discuss the issue.

I think I'll wait until a bit closer to FIRE to find out, though... :)

Brokenreign

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2016, 09:32:30 AM »
The more money I have invested, the less I care about getting a raise or promotion.

correct.  i think this is really the point here.  i think most of us care about our jobs to some extent and want to do well but just like "senioritis" from high school or college.  it reaches a point of diminishing returns and you're really just waiting for the time to come /// all that compounding just takes time.  once you have made it 50% in years not dollars til FIRE there isnt alot a few extra grand will do.

A lot of the people here seem to be in positions where they can expect significant ROI on the extra effort they put into performance reviews. That is simply not the case at most Megacorps. I would have to expend significant time and effort to eke out an extra 3%. When you only have a couple years left the compounding effect of that effort is insignificant to time left to FIRE. The marginal benefit I would receive from expending that effort on pretty much anything else is much greater.

CmFtns

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2016, 10:26:36 AM »
The more money I have invested, the less I care about getting a raise or promotion.

correct.  i think this is really the point here.  i think most of us care about our jobs to some extent and want to do well but just like "senioritis" from high school or college.  it reaches a point of diminishing returns and you're really just waiting for the time to come /// all that compounding just takes time.  once you have made it 50% in years not dollars til FIRE there isnt alot a few extra grand will do.

A lot of the people here seem to be in positions where they can expect significant ROI on the extra effort they put into performance reviews. That is simply not the case at most Megacorps. I would have to expend significant time and effort to eke out an extra 3%. When you only have a couple years left the compounding effect of that effort is insignificant to time left to FIRE. The marginal benefit I would receive from expending that effort on pretty much anything else is much greater.

yea there is no way in hell I will get a significant raise no matter what I do... There are salary ranges for the job titles here and you can not possibly move above the top end of that range. You have to get promoted to move up into the next title's salary range but that is only 10-15% higher and comes with way more expectations.

So all you people talking about doubling or tripling income... yea it's impossible unless I go off and start my own company or more to a high cost of living area but then I'm not really doubling my income...

JLee

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2016, 10:32:28 AM »
I tripled my income in the last three years -- I absolutely care about raises, and will for the foreseeable future. The more I earn, the faster I will be free.

This is one way to look at it, but another way - the way I took personally - is to streamline my life so my expenses are low, save as much money as possible, and not stress about work, other than always trying to do my best within my life circumstances at the time.

I have tracked my salary and net worth growth from 2002 to 2015 - my salary growth averaged 3.97% per year, while my net worth has grown an average of 16.76% per year! This spreadsheet and graph has been completely eye-opening! It's so easy to see which is the tortoise and which is the hare.

Maybe you could cut some expenses and be free now?

Nope. I am very early in my accumulation phase - roughly $157k net worth, up from about $100k 9 months ago (and about $60k of that is equity in the house that I'm currently renting out).  I would have a SWR of about $250/mo.  If I had ~$600k, sure -- but I can't quite cut my expenses to $250/mo.

The more money I have invested, the less I care about getting a raise or promotion.

correct.  i think this is really the point here.  i think most of us care about our jobs to some extent and want to do well but just like "senioritis" from high school or college.  it reaches a point of diminishing returns and you're really just waiting for the time to come /// all that compounding just takes time.  once you have made it 50% in years not dollars til FIRE there isnt alot a few extra grand will do.

A lot of the people here seem to be in positions where they can expect significant ROI on the extra effort they put into performance reviews. That is simply not the case at most Megacorps. I would have to expend significant time and effort to eke out an extra 3%. When you only have a couple years left the compounding effect of that effort is insignificant to time left to FIRE. The marginal benefit I would receive from expending that effort on pretty much anything else is much greater.

yea there is no way in hell I will get a significant raise no matter what I do... There are salary ranges for the job titles here and you can not possibly move above the top end of that range. You have to get promoted to move up into the next title's salary range but that is only 10-15% higher and comes with way more expectations.

So all you people talking about doubling or tripling income... yea it's impossible unless I go off and start my own company or more to a high cost of living area but then I'm not really doubling my income...

A huge factor in how I was able to triple mine was the fact that I made very little to start out. : )

I also moved to a HCOL area for my current job - it would've been fairly close to breaking even if I wanted to have my own house, but since I'm willing to drive a cheap car and rent a bedroom, it was a cost-effective decision.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 10:40:03 AM by JLee »

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2016, 10:39:54 AM »
So I find myself in FY16 review season and while I BSed by way through the review process I can't help but feel that none of it matters so long as I don't get bad enough scores to get fired. I've found myself not caring if I get promoted or get a raise because I've cut down expenses so low that FIRE is not a distant goal and the difference between a 2% and 5% raise is just not going to get me there substantially faster. I would rather keep as low of responsibility as possible, work the rest of my years without any added responsibility or upward movement and then quietly disappear from the workplace after 5 or so years. So honestly mr performance review... no my 5 year plan is not at this company.

Anyone else feel this way?

And with the sound of trumpets, clarity is achieved, and I suddenly understand the attitude and work ethic of the boomers in the office...

Kidding aside, yea, as I realized how close the end was I ceased to be disappointed if there were only COLA adjustments and no raises.  It's just not that big of a deal and I truly doubt I have any control over it sans a willingness to find a new job.  A new job might be on the horizon, but it won't be because of compensation.  It will be a "fuck it I'm going to go scoop ice scream instead of fill out that timesheet again."

pdxvandal

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2016, 10:46:01 AM »
This exactly. I'm in my early 40s and a 2-3% raise isn't that impactful when I already have 500k green soldiers working for me. I really don't care if I get a raise at this point. I spend a lot of time as it is managing my finances at work, since I have no direct reports and don't have to attend more than one meeting in a typical day.

Quote
A lot of the people here seem to be in positions where they can expect significant ROI on the extra effort they put into performance reviews. That is simply not the case at most Megacorps. I would have to expend significant time and effort to eke out an extra 3%. When you only have a couple years left the compounding effect of that effort is insignificant to time left to FIRE. The marginal benefit I would receive from expending that effort on pretty much anything else is much greater.

index

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2016, 10:54:29 AM »
It sounds like short sighted thinking even if you are only 5 years our from independence. A 2% yoy raise is a 10.5% raise after 5 years. A 5% yoy raise is a 28% raise after 5 years. The funny thing about growing up is your plans will change. You may find yourself working longer than you think due to children, medical emergencies, or you may decide you want to travel in your retirement and the 1k a month you are living off now won't hack it. If you are already working hard enough to deserve the 5% raise you may as well play the corporate game for the flexibility that extra 18% in pay may give you 5 years down the road. The return on investment of kissing up is like being paid for an extra 7 hours of work a week. Don't give that up because you don't like the game. 

CmFtns

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2016, 11:00:01 AM »
I feel like many people read this and think "typical... lazy millennial" but this is just not the case... I'm a very logical person and here i'm thinking about the ratio: work+stress to Dollars.

If I am "meeting expectations" in my reviews then in the eyes of megaCorp I am getting fairly paid for the amount of work that they expected me to get done. I do not feel bad or feel like i'm ripping off megaCorp because I don't exceed their expectations. If I did put in the work to exceed expectations then I would maybe get 2% more on my yearly raise and maybe get promoted to the next ranks of software engineer a year or two earlier.

Now the people I see in these higher positions end up being experts on the different systems and are the people who are "on call" and the people dealing with critical time sensitive issues and staying late and working overtime and having to deal with crunch times during installs of releases. To me they do not get paid fairly for the stress they must endure in these higher ranks so why would I work my ass off to get myself in a position and deal with lots of stress to make 10-20% more on my salary when I plan to have a 5 year career... I live on less than 20% of my income right now so FI is happening very quickly.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 11:01:38 AM by comfyfutons »

peppaz

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2016, 11:02:02 AM »
If someone asked me whether I'd like 7% returns on my investment or 10%, I would do everything in my power to get the 10%, and the same goes for my time that I invest working.

Brokenreign

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2016, 11:17:37 AM »
If someone asked me whether I'd like 7% returns on my investment or 10%, I would do everything in my power to get the 10%, and the same goes for my time that I invest working.

I like your signature. My friend and I were recently discussing the economics of the Bluth banana stand and concluded that it would likely do very well, though that is largely due to the fact that bananas are cheaper than they should be.

I agree with Comfyfuton's point in that there is a cost besides just the time spent on the performance review. If you set ambitious goals and hype up your achievements, there is an increased likelihood of hassle, overtime, meetings etc. If you don't mind risking those to retire a few weeks earlier, that's just dandy.

At a Megacorps though, I have a hard time seeing how it would pay off. Based in what I have observed, my $/hour would likely decrease as high performers get a 3% higher raise but work more than 3% greater hours. I suppose the type that seeks out higher performance ratings may be inclined to work more hours regardless.


index

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2016, 12:09:49 PM »
I feel like many people read this and think "typical... lazy millennial" but this is just not the case... I'm a very logical person and here i'm thinking about the ratio: work+stress to Dollars.

If I am "meeting expectations" in my reviews then in the eyes of megaCorp I am getting fairly paid for the amount of work that they expected me to get done. I do not feel bad or feel like i'm ripping off megaCorp because I don't exceed their expectations. If I did put in the work to exceed expectations then I would maybe get 2% more on my yearly raise and maybe get promoted to the next ranks of software engineer a year or two earlier.

Now the people I see in these higher positions end up being experts on the different systems and are the people who are "on call" and the people dealing with critical time sensitive issues and staying late and working overtime and having to deal with crunch times during installs of releases. To me they do not get paid fairly for the stress they must endure in these higher ranks so why would I work my ass off to get myself in a position and deal with lots of stress to make 10-20% more on my salary when I plan to have a 5 year career... I live on less than 20% of my income right now so FI is happening very quickly.

I think there is a lot to the work vs. stress ratio. I would just urge you to try and maximize your income, growing your skill set, and saving at this point in your life without forgetting to have some fun and actually spend some money along the way.

This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

CmFtns

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2016, 12:23:45 PM »
This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was an early retirement forum where lots of people planned for extremely short working careers based on their income and spending and savings rate... how is this a long game? I can absolutely model that I am 5 years away from retirement... Are you kidding because reaching financial independence at around 30 or early 30s is what MMM did and tons of other people who fuel this RE movement.

I really don't understand how half the people on these forums don't seemingly even want to retire.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 12:26:05 PM by comfyfutons »

stoaX

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2016, 12:37:35 PM »
The performance review matters a bit to me because I want to do a good job for my coworkers and clients. 

At my company there really is very little difference in pay raises whether you are a high performer or slacker.  Since I have no plans on leaving this company before I FIRE in a few years, I guess that means I don't care much about pay raises.  If I thought I would be in the workforce another 10 years, I would care much more.

Brokenreign

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2016, 12:50:11 PM »
This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was an early retirement forum where lots of people planned for extremely short working careers based on their income and spending and savings rate... how is this a long game? I can absolutely model that I am 5 years away from retirement... Are you kidding because reaching financial independence at around 30 or early 30s is what MMM did and tons of other people who fuel this RE movement.

I really don't understand how half the people on these forums don't seemingly even want to retire.

I'll be 33 when I'm done, inclusive of an initial pointless bachelor's degree. Without that, it would have been 30, similar to Comfyfuton's. An 80%+ savings rate certainly approximates a 5 year span. I am slightly ahead of schedule, despite early forays into the delusion that I was smarter than the market.

I find that the crowd at ERE is a little more receptive to extremely short careers. A lot of the people here don't believe in the 4% rule. That being said, there's still a lot of great input here.

No need to be defensive. You can pick and choose which advice to take.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2016, 12:57:02 PM »
This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was an early retirement forum where lots of people planned for extremely short working careers based on their income and spending and savings rate... how is this a long game? I can absolutely model that I am 5 years away from retirement... Are you kidding because reaching financial independence at around 30 or early 30s is what MMM did and tons of other people who fuel this RE movement.

Sure... you can model whatever you want. Doesn't mean your model is going to be right.  5 years is such a short time frame that you can't even use a certain ROI number to even somewhat accurately guess what you might have in 5 years.  If you do, you got fucking lucky as shit. 

Now, if you're basing your model solely on your guaranteed income minus your expenses then you could be a little more accurate. But even then... anything could happen.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 12:59:03 PM by shotgunwilly »

boarder42

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2016, 01:08:35 PM »
This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was an early retirement forum where lots of people planned for extremely short working careers based on their income and spending and savings rate... how is this a long game? I can absolutely model that I am 5 years away from retirement... Are you kidding because reaching financial independence at around 30 or early 30s is what MMM did and tons of other people who fuel this RE movement.



Sure... you can model whatever you want. Doesn't mean your model is going to be right.  5 years is such a short time frame that you can't even use a certain ROI number to even somewhat accurately guess what you might have in 5 years.  If you do, you got fucking lucky as shit. 

Now, if you're basing your model solely on your guaranteed income minus your expenses then you could be a little more accurate. But even then... anything could happen.

when you're saving 80% of take home pay the market returns are a really small factor in a 5 year span to FIRE. 

CmFtns

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Re: Do mustacians care about performance reviews and raises?
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2016, 01:09:11 PM »
This is a long game and 25 is honestly too early to quit while you are ahead. Modeling you are 5 years from RE when you have a net worth of 40k is impossible.

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was an early retirement forum where lots of people planned for extremely short working careers based on their income and spending and savings rate... how is this a long game? I can absolutely model that I am 5 years away from retirement... Are you kidding because reaching financial independence at around 30 or early 30s is what MMM did and tons of other people who fuel this RE movement.

I really don't understand how half the people on these forums don't seemingly even want to retire.

I'll be 33 when I'm done, inclusive of an initial pointless bachelor's degree. Without that, it would have been 30, similar to Comfyfuton's. An 80%+ savings rate certainly approximates a 5 year span. I am slightly ahead of schedule, despite early forays into the delusion that I was smarter than the market.

I find that the crowd at ERE is a little more receptive to extremely short careers. A lot of the people here don't believe in the 4% rule. That being said, there's still a lot of great input here.

No need to be defensive. You can pick and choose which advice to take.

yea... lots of great stuff here and it's why i spend a lot of time reading here but it really irritates me when people directly oppose my plans or ideas... especially when it's because of being lumped into a younger generation.