Poll

I need this amount per year in retirement!

25k or less
75 (15.2%)
50k or less
257 (52.2%)
75k or less
104 (21.1%)
100k or less
38 (7.7%)
125k or less
7 (1.4%)
150k or less
5 (1%)
150k or more
6 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 485

Author Topic: POLL - How much per year in retirement?  (Read 18538 times)

afuera

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2016, 08:37:14 AM »
We hover right around 45K expenses now but this is with spending a lot on eating/drinking and other expensive activities.  As we get more badass those expenses will drop but then we will have kids so some expenses will rise.  My target is 50K a year just to be safe.

boarder42

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2016, 10:08:26 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

I hear you and I am taking notes. I plan to stop working in the next 3 years but I plan to keep the LTC and life insurance. My husband does most of the maintenance and management of the rentals. The life insurance is equivalent of the payoff amount on the mortgage for the rentals.

I think its still not coming through as to why you need insurance.  As above, retired typically means you or him are not working.  Managing and maintaining rentals isn't technically retired.  It would seem (based on the limited info provided) that if your husband wasn't around you could get a property management company to take 10% of rent and be in the same position.  It seems that by structuring a windfall from insurance to pay off mortgages that something isn't computing.  If they need to be paid off before retirement then that does not go to the original question, as to what is needed in retirement.  Also not sure why kids expenses would still be included.  Its just not making much sense which is why everyone is so confused about your numbers.

Ok hopefully this clears it up. We were a one income family when we first started a family and my husband stayed home with the children so we each had substantial life insurance for obvious reasons. We then started investing in real estate which we grew substantially and which can support us with a very good lifestyle if I were to retire. In the meantime we've used the profits to continually acquire new properties, refinance and acquire more. Because my husband does much of the remodel and maintenance we've been able to have a much greater ROI and greater rental profits. He is very skilled and does everything from electrical to plumbing. If he can no longer do this our profits and ROI would take a big hit. The properties are class C and located in the inner city and have mostly section 8 so maintenance is very high since tenants are hard on them. These are not the kind of properties you can use a property manager to manage. The management is just too intense. I am unlikely to continue this business if my husband isn't around to help and vice versa since we work closely as a team. We have several dozen properties and this great cash flow will disappear if neither me nor my husband can do this so we've decided that we should hang on to our life insurance. We have been focused on acquisition for the last 8 years so we are just beginning to use our substantial cash flow in alternative investments.  I know you could pick this apart but it is the decision we've made because it feels right. I know the snipets I have provided does not provide enough context or background and hence the confusion. Maybe I'll start my own journal if I can find some time.

i think other people have beaten this horse to death but even if you kept your life and health insurance you're still just building your retirement to meet you current spending.  The purpose of this blog is to optimize your life and your spending so you can retire earlier. if you dont want to cut cable and need your 1k a month food budget and your 200 a month cell phone bill by all means go ahead.  but when you ask the question "how do you live on so little" and inlcude "i'm a frugal person" ... you're going to get all the answers you've seen here b/c as this community goes you're probably one of the top spenders here and would not be considered frugal with bills like that. 

you want to live on less

1. buy an efficient house thats around 2500 sq ft. your 4k sq ft monster at 550k is not a frugal housing choice
2. tru 6 were already covered in the post above

there is a lot of bloat in your spending and if you're ok with it thats fine and live your life that way.  but it doesnt take much to cut that fat.

the snipits provided more than provide enough info to find places to cut your stereotypical middle class spending.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:17:26 AM by boarder42 »

K-ice

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2016, 10:10:53 AM »
Bare-bones we could probably get down to 25K.

But counting travel and ageing health costs I would rather budget close to 50K.

We are super fortunate to be in Canada where most health costs should be covered but insurance will be required for dental, eyes and Rx once it is not covered by work. A quick Google search and this seams to be only $120/month per family for 50-80% coverage.  This seams too good to be true, I "estimated" $500/month. More research required to know for sure.

Lejt? I know your $2,500 was just an "estimate", and US is very different from Canada, but how did you estimate it?

Our housing costs are also quite high ~$1150/month for tax, insurance & utilities (450+150+ ~550). We don't plan on moving, so this will only go up with time. Utilities would include water+elec+trash 160, gas 220, internet 70, 2 cells 100.

My SO is crazy handy and we can currently do almost all home maintenance. Ironically, we had roofers do our house because of the steep slope, but we helped my SIL re-roof for free. Avoiding the risk of falling off our roof was well worth the money.

We only have 1 child, 1 car, 2 cell phones.  With 3 teenagers our costs could be creeping closer to Letj levels...





aFrugalFather

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2016, 10:22:02 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

I hear you and I am taking notes. I plan to stop working in the next 3 years but I plan to keep the LTC and life insurance. My husband does most of the maintenance and management of the rentals. The life insurance is equivalent of the payoff amount on the mortgage for the rentals.

I think its still not coming through as to why you need insurance.  As above, retired typically means you or him are not working.  Managing and maintaining rentals isn't technically retired.  It would seem (based on the limited info provided) that if your husband wasn't around you could get a property management company to take 10% of rent and be in the same position.  It seems that by structuring a windfall from insurance to pay off mortgages that something isn't computing.  If they need to be paid off before retirement then that does not go to the original question, as to what is needed in retirement.  Also not sure why kids expenses would still be included.  Its just not making much sense which is why everyone is so confused about your numbers.

Ok hopefully this clears it up. We were a one income family when we first started a family and my husband stayed home with the children so we each had substantial life insurance for obvious reasons. We then started investing in real estate which we grew substantially and which can support us with a very good lifestyle if I were to retire. In the meantime we've used the profits to continually acquire new properties, refinance and acquire more. Because my husband does much of the remodel and maintenance we've been able to have a much greater ROI and greater rental profits. He is very skilled and does everything from electrical to plumbing. If he can no longer do this our profits and ROI would take a big hit. The properties are class C and located in the inner city and have mostly section 8 so maintenance is very high since tenants are hard on them. These are not the kind of properties you can use a property manager to manage. The management is just too intense. I am unlikely to continue this business if my husband isn't around to help and vice versa since we work closely as a team. We have several dozen properties and this great cash flow will disappear if neither me nor my husband can do this so we've decided that we should hang on to our life insurance. We have been focused on acquisition for the last 8 years so we are just beginning to use our substantial cash flow in alternative investments.  I know you could pick this apart but it is the decision we've made because it feels right. I know the snipets I have provided does not provide enough context or background and hence the confusion. Maybe I'll start my own journal if I can find some time.

Thank you for clarifying.  I hope you see though that the situation you describe with reliance on only one person for working and maintaining these specialized properties isn't what some would consider retirement, so these costs and that setup would be different when you are truly hands off for passive income in retirement, in which case the insurance need would go away.  To be retired in the traditional sense would be free from these obligations and have a passive income.

In a way, the insurance you have is more like a business expense hedge against loss of your key employee, which you could consider as a line item cost for how you have structured your RE investment.  For the poll here, I think the intent was for describing how much you need given a more traditionally passive income stream.

Vagabond76

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2016, 11:03:50 AM »
"150k or less" will probably fit me just fine regardless of what happens

I don't know why everyone doesn't vote for this.

Roboturner

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2016, 11:26:00 AM »
We could live on 30k.  40k is what I'm aiming for, and provides sizable cushion to deal with potential problems.

our plan :)

Slow&Steady

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2016, 11:52:59 AM »
We currently live on just shy of 50k/year and even though we plan to have a paid off house and no commute in retirement we also have very high medical cost so I assume our barebones in retirement will be similar.

HOWEVER, we don't WANT to live on a barebones budget in retirement, we want to be able to afford whatever medical treatment might be best for our circumstances and travel frequently in a manner that our health will allow so we are aiming for double our current spending in retirement.

BlueMR2

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2016, 05:36:15 PM »
gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

As you're finding out, that's one of those double-edged swords.  Great deals can bleed you dry, because it makes it easier to buy into something with higher maintenance costs.  Applies to housing, cars, etc.  Fer instance, my highest gas bill (with my old 91% furnace, since replaced with a 96% and with my (still surviving) ancient water heater) during the Winter that it was -17F here for a week straight just barely hit $130.  I live in a nice 3 bedroom ranch with attached 2 car garage, living AND family room, separate dining room, etc, not exactly a "tiny house", but certainly not a McMansion either.

Even my screaming great deal motorcycle, which only cost me $1 requires me to ride between 400-800 miles a year (depending on which vehicle it's displacing and gas prices, etc) just to break even.  I'm OK with that, like you're OK with your house.  Just as long as you understand the costs...  :-)

Monkey Uncle

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2016, 04:43:55 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.
It's hard to compare expenses between people in these kinds of polls to a certain extent because they don't take into account family size, housing needs, medical needs, caring for parents, etc...

A lot of us with low expenses don't have kids, have no debts or mortgage, and no expensive medical needs or hobbies/activities so have very low expenses even when living in very HCOL areas and owning a SF home as I do, cars, etc... and living a typical middle class life style.

Also some of us are talking about barebones expenses rather than total spending. My barebones expenses are only around $6000 - $7000/year but my spending is higher by more than double that for all the fun stuff like travel and not so fun stuff like home or car repairs. Still well under $25k/year all together though.  Best to compare to people in your own situation. I know lots of people here have lowered their expenses a lot after posting a case study and having others pick their expenses apart.

This whole exchange with Letj shows the importance of certain milestone moments in designing one's lifestyle.  When you get a career-oriented job, when you move out of your parents' house, when you get married, when you have kids (and decide how many, or choose not to have kids), and any time you move -- these are key watershed events in which you make choices that will set your spending levels for many years to come.  You choose a 4,000 sf house instead of a 1,300 sf house.  You choose to live and work in different places.  You get accustomed to eating out and stopping by Starbucks instead of cooking at home.  You get used to leasing a new car every three years.  You have three kids instead of one, and you sign them up for every sport and extra-curricular activity available instead of giving them time to engage in unstructured play.  Etc., etc.

Once these choices have been made and the habits ingrained, it is extremely difficult to change.  You marvel at how anyone can live on $25k/yr, and you think it is totally impossible in your situation.  For example, DW and I have always loved good food (which we do mostly cook at home), and it's been very important to us since the beginning of our marriage.  We scratch our heads in amazement at the people on this site who feed a family of 4 on $400/mo.  We could never do that because we aren't willing to change to a diet that is based on cheap starch.  But we've made lots of other choices along the way that have enabled us to live what we consider to be a very comfortable life on around $40k/year.  Letj and her family have made choices that do not allow that.  It's easy for us to point out all the wasteful aspects of their lifestyle, but it's not as simple as just waving a wand and saying "move out of your big house and change all of your habits."

So the moral of the story for all of you young aspiring mustachians - choose very carefully when you get to these big milestone moments in your life.

tarheeldan

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2016, 05:24:45 AM »


It's easy for us to point out all the wasteful aspects of their lifestyle, but it's not as simple as just waving a wand and saying "move out of your big house and change all of your habits."

This is MMM, that's what we do. But no magic wand, we give Facepunches!

ender

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #60 on: May 25, 2016, 05:27:27 AM »
This whole exchange with Letj shows the importance of certain milestone moments in designing one's lifestyle.  When you get a career-oriented job, when you move out of your parents' house, when you get married, when you have kids (and decide how many, or choose not to have kids), and any time you move -- these are key watershed events in which you make choices that will set your spending levels for many years to come.  You choose a 4,000 sf house instead of a 1,300 sf house.  You choose to live and work in different places.  You get accustomed to eating out and stopping by Starbucks instead of cooking at home.  You get used to leasing a new car every three years.  You have three kids instead of one, and you sign them up for every sport and extra-curricular activity available instead of giving them time to engage in unstructured play.  Etc., etc.

Once these choices have been made and the habits ingrained, it is extremely difficult to change.  You marvel at how anyone can live on $25k/yr, and you think it is totally impossible in your situation.  For example, DW and I have always loved good food (which we do mostly cook at home), and it's been very important to us since the beginning of our marriage.  We scratch our heads in amazement at the people on this site who feed a family of 4 on $400/mo.  We could never do that because we aren't willing to change to a diet that is based on cheap starch.  But we've made lots of other choices along the way that have enabled us to live what we consider to be a very comfortable life on around $40k/year.  Letj and her family have made choices that do not allow that.  It's easy for us to point out all the wasteful aspects of their lifestyle, but it's not as simple as just waving a wand and saying "move out of your big house and change all of your habits."

So the moral of the story for all of you young aspiring mustachians - choose very carefully when you get to these big milestone moments in your life.

+1

This is the reason the concept of early retirement (or for some folks, retirement at all) is so crazy to many people.  Because the realty is that the ability to ER is made by a series of life choices, none of which of themselves seem significant by themselves but are mainly significant in aggregate.

Realistically you can still spend what seems absurdly low while having considerable luxury -- just not every luxury. Maybe it's food. Maybe it's a nice(r) house. Maybe it's nice(r) cars. Maybe it's nice(r) home location. Maybe it's expensive hobbies. Maybe it's having lots of kids (though I would say kids themselves are not overly expensive, it's the activities and "everything the best for Johnny!" that makes them that way).

You can pick even a few of those and still spend a relatively small amount of money. You probably cannot pick all of them.



boarder42

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #61 on: May 25, 2016, 05:42:56 AM »
This whole exchange with Letj shows the importance of certain milestone moments in designing one's lifestyle.  When you get a career-oriented job, when you move out of your parents' house, when you get married, when you have kids (and decide how many, or choose not to have kids), and any time you move -- these are key watershed events in which you make choices that will set your spending levels for many years to come.  You choose a 4,000 sf house instead of a 1,300 sf house.  You choose to live and work in different places.  You get accustomed to eating out and stopping by Starbucks instead of cooking at home.  You get used to leasing a new car every three years.  You have three kids instead of one, and you sign them up for every sport and extra-curricular activity available instead of giving them time to engage in unstructured play.  Etc., etc.

Once these choices have been made and the habits ingrained, it is extremely difficult to change.  You marvel at how anyone can live on $25k/yr, and you think it is totally impossible in your situation.  For example, DW and I have always loved good food (which we do mostly cook at home), and it's been very important to us since the beginning of our marriage.  We scratch our heads in amazement at the people on this site who feed a family of 4 on $400/mo.  We could never do that because we aren't willing to change to a diet that is based on cheap starch.  But we've made lots of other choices along the way that have enabled us to live what we consider to be a very comfortable life on around $40k/year.  Letj and her family have made choices that do not allow that.  It's easy for us to point out all the wasteful aspects of their lifestyle, but it's not as simple as just waving a wand and saying "move out of your big house and change all of your habits."

So the moral of the story for all of you young aspiring mustachians - choose very carefully when you get to these big milestone moments in your life.

+1

This is the reason the concept of early retirement (or for some folks, retirement at all) is so crazy to many people.  Because the realty is that the ability to ER is made by a series of life choices, none of which of themselves seem significant by themselves but are mainly significant in aggregate.

Realistically you can still spend what seems absurdly low while having considerable luxury -- just not every luxury. Maybe it's food. Maybe it's a nice(r) house. Maybe it's nice(r) cars. Maybe it's nice(r) home location. Maybe it's expensive hobbies. Maybe it's having lots of kids (though I would say kids themselves are not overly expensive, it's the activities and "everything the best for Johnny!" that makes them that way).

You can pick even a few of those and still spend a relatively small amount of money. You probably cannot pick all of them.




Yep exactly.  and all of the things that are luxury can be done with a a frugal twist so you can appear to have many luxuries from the outside while still spending quite a bit less. 

lizzzi

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #62 on: May 25, 2016, 05:51:45 AM »
I'm spending around $29,000 in LCOL area with small, mortgage-free house.  I'm saving and investing 38% of actual income above and beyond that 29K. I'm widowed, no kids at home, drive SUV, the puppy lives large. Spend way too much on books and DVDs.

Shop at Aldi, cook whole foods from scratch and freeze, cut own hair with crea clip and do not color, wear simple, dark clothes that pretty much all mix, match, and layer together. Not a big traveler (been everywhere, done it all, like home the best), but  mostly use credit card rewards, budget airlines,  and hostels when I do travel. (Or stay with friends and family.) I'm not a cheapskate, but I hate recreational shopping, hate "stuff" and clutter, don't like going out to eat much anymore, like to make my own entertainment at home--music, writing, new interest of sketching and watercolors. Live across road from walking trails on 4,400 acre park and a municipal golf course that is in the top thirty of U.S. municipal golf courses...was given a set of old golf clubs, so do want to try golf for the first time--will walk to the course from home, and at least practice putting, which is free. I am a happy person.  : D

ender

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #63 on: May 25, 2016, 06:03:03 AM »
Yep exactly.  and all of the things that are luxury can be done with a a frugal twist so you can appear to have many luxuries from the outside while still spending quite a bit less.

Yup. We're in the process of buying a "nicer than we need" house but it's still a mortgage we can very easily afford while still dumping quite a bit into savings every year. But our cars are cheap. We homecook nearly everything. We won't spend crazy amounts furnishing the place. We don't have expensive hobbies (yet? gardening might become one :P). Almost all our current furniture except our bed is garage sale, family gifts (multiple items from grandparents), or Craigslist purchased.

All about priorities. We're willing to pay a bit more per month for a great location for our home. We're not going to similarly pay more for nice(r) cars or going out to eat continuously or buying fancypants furniture.

boarder42

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #64 on: May 25, 2016, 06:33:52 AM »
Yep exactly.  and all of the things that are luxury can be done with a a frugal twist so you can appear to have many luxuries from the outside while still spending quite a bit less.

Yup. We're in the process of buying a "nicer than we need" house but it's still a mortgage we can very easily afford while still dumping quite a bit into savings every year. But our cars are cheap. We homecook nearly everything. We won't spend crazy amounts furnishing the place. We don't have expensive hobbies (yet? gardening might become one :P). Almost all our current furniture except our bed is garage sale, family gifts (multiple items from grandparents), or Craigslist purchased.

All about priorities. We're willing to pay a bit more per month for a great location for our home. We're not going to similarly pay more for nice(r) cars or going out to eat continuously or buying fancypants furniture.

pretty similar to what we just did.  we just bought lake front in our community.  got the house ~10% under market value.  i think i may have actually profitted when we moved by selling our old items and buying bed sets / dining sets. on CL and selling off the pieces we didnt need.  even our bed was a CL find.  it was 2 months old per the tag and 33% of the price in store.  actually sold our old mattress for the same price i bought the new one for.  i love cooking and do all our meals we dont have cable, we live in a google fiber area so internet is 300 dollar install charge then no cost for 7 years.  we travel but its basically free thru hacking.  i have what most would consider an expensive hobby in that we own a boat.  but i buy in the fall keep em for a few years and usually flip for a profit.  so we are out the gas and routine maint. but anything can be done affordably IMO.

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #65 on: May 25, 2016, 10:40:10 AM »
I think people get into trouble when they try to have everything. When we were young and raising our kids we needed to be frugal in order to save for retirement, etc.  WE actually are more spendy now in retirement.  It is comforting to know that if we ever needed too we could go back to our old ways and be fine. I think people should choose what brings them the most value and then scale back on things that don't. This will be different for everyone but is much better then mindless spending.

Teacherstache

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2016, 09:13:47 AM »
I voted less than $50,000. We currently spend right at $48,000 with a mortgage and two teens. Without the mortgage, it would be $35,000.  When the teens are on their own, it will reduce even further. All of this will happen in 11 years when we will retire at 52 (me) and 55 (DH).

PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2016, 10:08:12 PM »
I voted "need" $75k or less, as in that is what I expect to spend. I don't actually "need" that much, but expect to spend close to it for a family of four.

Cheers!
-PoF

Villanelle

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2016, 10:21:32 PM »
This depends entirely on whether we will have a paid off home, and where we will live during ER, so there's no way I can answer.  That's one of the most challenging parts of all of this for Husband and me.  To many variables make it impossible to come up with a good number.

FireLane

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #69 on: May 30, 2016, 01:23:35 PM »
I'm aiming for an ER budget of about $48,000 for my two-person household. That's a little less than what we spend now, but our current spending includes commuting costs that won't exist in retirement, as well as restaurants, charitable donations and other luxuries we can dial up or down as we're comfortable with. No kids yet, but I don't expect them to make a huge change to this if they do come along. The way I see it, if you can't live on $4K a month you're doing something wrong.

The only thing that concerns me is health insurance, which isn't part of our budget right now since DW and I get it through our jobs. A lot will depend on how stable and affordable the private insurance market is when we're getting closer to our FIRE date.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:25:09 PM by FireLane »

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2016, 01:29:10 PM »
Insurance can easily add another 10-15k/year.

FireLane

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2016, 06:50:13 PM »
Insurance can easily add another 10-15k/year.

That's something I worry about, to be honest. Maybe we need another poll asking people how much they've budgeted to spend on this.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2016, 03:57:02 AM »
Insurance can easily add another 10-15k/year.

That's something I worry about, to be honest. Maybe we need another poll asking people how much they've budgeted to spend on this.

If the ACA stays intact after the upcoming election, I'll be budgeting about the same as my current health care expenditures.  I checked healthcare.gov a while back, and due to the premium subsidy at my projected FIRE income, I'll actually be paying a little less than I'm currently paying for my employer-sponsored health insurance.

boarder42

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2016, 05:52:40 AM »
Insurance can easily add another 10-15k/year.

using an ACA calculator for my state and 2 kids at home and annual spending of 60k (which is high for this forum) i still come out to about 4800 per year.  this is in the state of MO for reference and 2 37 year olds with 2 kids.

Threshkin

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2016, 11:14:11 AM »
....and how many years of 15 to 50% premium increases can you afford?

The premium increases are what is scaring me more than anything else in ACA.  (Not that there aren't other scary parts.)

BTDretire

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2016, 03:58:08 PM »

Docs also harass me to get an annual MRI (~900$ out of pocket).

 Huh! Is that a full body MRI? What would they be looking for? Do the docs have ownership in the MRI office?
  My doc is either incompetent or Mustachian in recommending medical tests.
I'm 61, never had a stress test, colonoscopy, full body MRI.
  When I had a severe lower backissue, he put me through (tried) a couple of
movements and said I herniated a disc. He said, "we could do an MRI but it wouldn't make it better".
I suffered for a year before I said I wanted an MRI. Yep, I have a herniated disc, My $400 confirmed what he told me :-/
  Anyone else ever been sent for an MRI as part of an annual checkup?

mjones1234

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2016, 04:00:15 PM »
$38k would be comfortable for us.

Our monthly expenses look like this:

Paid off mortgage
Property taxes (even lakeside! - $75)
Food for four: $450 (Aldi/Costco combination helps)
Utilities - $175
Med Insurance: $600
Fuel for vehicles - $250
Fuel for motorcycle/boat - $100
Property Maintenance - $150
Vehicle Maintenance - $100
Entertainment - $500 (zoos, camping, friends over, etc.)
Clothing - $75
Vacations - $200
Unexpected - $150
Gifts - $100
Homeowners insurance - $100
Splurge Stuff - $200

Plan to back down to fun, part time work in 12-18 months, making 30k between both of us, and deriving the remainder from dividends/interest.
Keep nest egg working in investments to eventually pass down to the kids/grandkids.

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2016, 04:19:58 PM »
Qmavam: The MRi you said you quoted from me is not me.  I don't know who in their right mind would get one a year or what insurance would even pay for that yearly.

wenchsenior

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2016, 06:22:54 PM »
That's me who gets pushed for an annual MRI. It's not part of an annual check up. It's because I have a pituitary tumor and even though they will treat the tumor exactly the same way (meds) regardless of the MRI results, and even though they can track whether the tumor is growing at a problematic rate with a simple blood test, they still push me to get it scanned annually. It's so annoying. I'm planning on arguing it at my next appointment, but I have the feeling they won't start me back on my meds without it.

So stupid. And expensive.

 

Cyaphas

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2016, 07:34:49 PM »
That's me who gets pushed for an annual MRI. It's not part of an annual check up. It's because I have a pituitary tumor and even though they will treat the tumor exactly the same way (meds) regardless of the MRI results, and even though they can track whether the tumor is growing at a problematic rate with a simple blood test, they still push me to get it scanned annually. It's so annoying. I'm planning on arguing it at my next appointment, but I have the feeling they won't start me back on my meds without it.

So stupid. And expensive.

Isn't that a fairly large dose of radiation every time?

csprof

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #80 on: June 06, 2016, 10:04:44 PM »
That's me who gets pushed for an annual MRI. It's not part of an annual check up. It's because I have a pituitary tumor and even though they will treat the tumor exactly the same way (meds) regardless of the MRI results, and even though they can track whether the tumor is growing at a problematic rate with a simple blood test, they still push me to get it scanned annually. It's so annoying. I'm planning on arguing it at my next appointment, but I have the feeling they won't start me back on my meds without it.

So stupid. And expensive.

Isn't that a fairly large dose of radiation every time?

CT/CAT scans are x-rays;  MRIs are just magnets, and involve no radiation exposure.

Edited to add:  REALLY BIG magnets.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBx8BwLhqg
grin

Cyaphas

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2016, 02:37:35 PM »

CT/CAT scans are x-rays;  MRIs are just magnets, and involve no radiation exposure.

Edited to add:  REALLY BIG magnets.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BBx8BwLhqg
grin

Thank you for clarifying. Apparently my doctors and their assistants at my last ER visit don't know that. (no sarcasm intended, I really don't think they know or there was a misunderstanding in the conversation.)

Connemara

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2016, 03:15:11 PM »
It's difficult to say it this point. A lot depends on whether I get married (I plan to) and have children (I plan not to). With a paid off house or two I could do pretty well on $50K/year. My current career trajectory puts me on track for an annual pension of $75,000-$100,000 if I'm insane enough to work until age 62, but I have a hard time seeing myself in a full time job after age 50. If I retired at that age, I could expect a pension of $50,000-$60,000 at age 62. Withdrawing at an earlier age would carry penalties so I'd have to live on investments for over a decade. Certainly doable.

Dicey

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2016, 03:27:24 PM »
1. What will we need?
2. What wil we want?
3. What will we have that we can't possibly spend?

Three completely different numbers. Fortunately years of saving, investing and mustachianism mean that the answer is #3.

We're going to have a lot of fun doing whatever the hell we want and supporting charities we like.

For clarification, I am FIRE now, but not drawing down assets, DH has five years to go, because his pension with awesome healthcare benefits is the fourth leg of our stool. He could retire earlier, but he won't leave that much on the table, plus his mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so we can't travel large scale anyway right now.