Author Topic: DIY Estate Planning  (Read 10618 times)

frugaldrummer

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2018, 02:38:21 PM »
So here's my question:
I'm single and plan to stay that way. My three children are adults. Two of them live with me as well as my elderly mother.
Most of my savings are in retirement funds and my three kids are beneficiaries of those accounts. No life insurance as they will inherit enough from those accounts and it's expensive at my age.
The question is about my house.
My mortgage is down to 1/3 the value of the house. I'd like my mom and oldest son to be able to live in the house as long as my mom is able to live independently. Oldest son probably wouldn't qualify for a loan big enough to buy out his siblings Shares of the house.

I'm sure I need an expert but just thinking out the options. Put the house in a trust that gives mom a life interest? If so, wouldn't that tie up the house if she goes permanently into a nursing home?( which her sister did for years).

Willing the house outright to oldest son isn't an option as it would give him a disproportionately larger share of the estate.
Oldest son might be able to afford to keep the house if he had rental income from renting out bedrooms.

Other ideas?



GizmoTX

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2018, 03:00:30 PM »
Frugaldrummer, if you were to die before your mother, how would the annual house expenses be paid? You may want to rethink having your kids inherit your retirement funds. Yes, you need an expert.

frugaldrummer

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2018, 04:09:15 PM »
Each kid would inherit approx $170k from retirement accounts, plus oldest son works and mom has income, they could handle house expenses fine.

Any other ideas?

gatortator

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2018, 11:12:40 AM »
TVRodriguez post this very useful advice in a older thread. 

So I have asked around for referrals and gotten three; the two attorneys I am still considering both cost $400-$500 to interview. I don't really know how to choose the better one absent that initial consult. One set up a trust for a friend who liked her fine; younger, a little less conveniently located. The other did estate planning for another friend who was very happy with his services after his wife died. More senior guy, right in town but not as clear on how much he's done with special needs trusts specifically (but it does seem to align with some of his volunteer board positions). Rough prices seem similar. Any thoughts on how to pick and if it's necessary to spend a grand talking to both of them in depth before picking one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some thoughts:

1. Those are reasonable fees for an initial consultation (mine is $300, fyi).  Do they offer flat fee plans?  Many of us do, and I freely tell clients over the phone the range of fees I anticipate quoting -- I don't want someone to waste their time or mine with a visit if they can't afford my services.  Do they accept credit cards or payment plans?  Some do and some do not.  Ask.

2. Did you get to speak to the attorneys by phone already?  Go with the one you like, who listened to you, and who you feel like you can talk to--you'll have lots of personal things to discuss and you don't want to feel shy/stupid/cut off during your meetings. 

3. Will they provide you with electronic versions (pdfs) of your documents once they are completely executed?  Do they charge extra for that?  Ask in advance if this is important to you.  I offer to email clients pdfs at their request, which they can then store how they wish (and provide to banks if necessary), in addition to an indexed binder of copies of all documents and free storage of all originals. 

4. You can likely check with your state bar association (online or by phone) to see if the lawyers are in your state bar's trust/estate law section of the bar.  Most estate planners I know are in the probate and trust law section of the state bar association.  You want someone who does this and only this -- not someone who is filling in litigation or  real estate downtime by "writing simple wills."

5. You can check to see if a lawyer is AV rated by Martindale Hubbel (martindale.com or lawyers.com), which has been rating lawyers for over a century, I think.  An AV rating generally means that at least 18-20 other lawyers in that area of practice find that attorney to be ethical.  Not all lawyers are rated, though, so lack of an AV rating does not mean that the attorney is unethical, merely that s/he hasn't been reviewed by Martindale. 

6. There are also ratings and reviews posted on different websites, like avvo.com and others, where some attorneys have client reviews and other attorney endorsements posted on a public profile.  Sometimes that can be helpful (not always) so it's worth seeing if they're listed, but a low rating or lack of reviews can simply mean they're busy enough not to have to rely on that for business generation.  FYI, at least on avvo, there are both ratings and starred reviews.  The ratings are on a 10 point scale: attorneys can't pay to increase their rating, but there are ways attorneys can bring up a score somewhat (a point or two).  Most attorneys who don't bother to fill out their profile start with a 6.5 or so. Filling out the profile can bring it up to an 8.  Attorney endorsements can bring it up another point. Awards, publications, and involvement in a legal organization can bring it up another point.  It took me a bit to get to 10.  Client reviews are on a 1 to 5 star scale and do not affect the rating on the 10 point scale.

Catbert

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2018, 12:11:03 PM »
So here's my question:
I'm single and plan to stay that way. My three children are adults. Two of them live with me as well as my elderly mother.
Most of my savings are in retirement funds and my three kids are beneficiaries of those accounts. No life insurance as they will inherit enough from those accounts and it's expensive at my age.
The question is about my house.
My mortgage is down to 1/3 the value of the house. I'd like my mom and oldest son to be able to live in the house as long as my mom is able to live independently. Oldest son probably wouldn't qualify for a loan big enough to buy out his siblings Shares of the house.

I'm sure I need an expert but just thinking out the options. Put the house in a trust that gives mom a life interest? If so, wouldn't that tie up the house if she goes permanently into a nursing home?( which her sister did for years).

Willing the house outright to oldest son isn't an option as it would give him a disproportionately larger share of the estate.
Oldest son might be able to afford to keep the house if he had rental income from renting out bedrooms.

Other ideas?

I'm guessing that it's pretty unlikely that your mother will outlive you.  Yes, it could happen but unlikely assuming you're in good health.  I wouldn't devote too much money to fixing this problem.   Maybe look at the current value of the house and your retirement accounts.  Leave the house to your oldest son and even out the % on your retirement accounts so the value is (roughly) the same.  That's also easy to change back if/when your mother predeceases you.

Shane

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2018, 12:46:28 PM »
Our estate is fairly simple, with 99% of assets in a few brokerage accounts. All of the accounts are set up to Transfer On Death (TOD), thus bypassing probate entirely. My wife and I have each named each other as primary beneficiary and our minor daughter as secondary beneficiary on all of our accounts.

In the extremely unlikely event that both my wife and I were to die at the same time, sometime during the next 8 years before our daughter becomes an adult, the state would name somebody, probably a relative or family friend who would come forward to take guardianship of our daughter. You can name anybody you like as guardian of your children, but it still has to be approved by the state. If your named guardian doesn't meet the requirements of your state's equivalent of Child Protective Services, the State will find somebody else. It doesn't matter what's written in your will. The few thousand dollars in our savings account would have to go through probate, but so what? Our daughter could just choose to abandon it and give the money to the state, as she'd already have 99% of our assets.

OP, try googling, "intestate succession (your state's name)." Here's a summary of the rules for HI.

Kierun

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2018, 02:02:43 PM »
Really appreciate the link Shane.

frugaldrummer

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Re: DIY Estate Planning
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2018, 04:50:36 PM »
Quote
I'm guessing that it's pretty unlikely that your mother will outlive you.  Yes, it could happen but unlikely assuming you're in good health.  I wouldn't devote too much money to fixing this problem.   Maybe look at the current value of the house and your retirement accounts.  Leave the house to your oldest son and even out the % on your retirement accounts so the value is (roughly) the same.  That's also easy to change back if/when your mother predeceases you.

The house equity is more than half the retirement account so cannot just will the house to the oldest as he would inherit approx. $400 k in equity and other two would only get $250 k from retirement account.

Mom could well outlive me as though she is 86, her mother lived to be 100. However I'm mostly anticipating if there was a sudden event like I got hit by a truck.

My concern is how to preserve her ability to live in the house until she needs nursing home care (if she does) but then not have the kids stuck with the house until she dies (which could be years later judging by one of her older sisters who lived several years with dementia in a nursing home). My oldest son is close to her and I'm sure he'd have no problem continuing to live with her but I wouldn't want the other two kids to be pushing to have the house sold while Grandma's still in it.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!