Author Topic: Did you quit your crappy job too early?  (Read 4945 times)

light switch

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Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« on: March 26, 2022, 01:50:36 PM »
I work from 6 pm to 6 am Monday to Friday. I was hired with the understanding that I would be troubleshooting and repairing failures in manufacturing equipment. My actual job is to sit at a desk in a factory watching YouTube for 12 hours, five nights per week.  When there is an actual problem, we have no resources with which to do the job. This statement applies to the tools available, as well as the expertise, and documentation. The actual work I've been tasked with has been back breaking, mind numbingly simplistic work that requires thumbs and a lackadaisical view of safety in the workplace. I need to be busy and I need to be productive. And I've spent years training and working towards a job requiring specialized knowledge and technical applications of it.  This job pays better than any other job I've ever had. The benefits are (regionally speaking) exceptional. I've been searching for a different job, but all of them require night shift, and all are advertising overtime as a "perk". I'm 70% to FI.  I don't really think I care if it takes a long time to get the rest of the way there. I have a 30-50% annual savings rate.  This seems to imply that I could work for 30-50% less income, and still be comfortable. Obviously, I hate this job. It's ruining my personal life and it makes a mockery of all the years of effort, school, and training I have done to get here. I'm sure I am not the only person who has had this experience. Did you quit before you should have? Do you regret it? Why?

IslandFiGirl

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2022, 02:24:02 PM »
Working night shift was complete misery for me.  I never got enough sleep, never did anything social and when I had days off I was a zombie and spent most of my time trying to catch up on sleep to try to feel somewhat human.  If I were you, yes, I would leave that job, even if it meant a paycut.  Life is too short to be miserable, if you have 30-40% left to get to FI, you don't want to waste your life away missing out on life because your job sucks.  Do something that makes you happier and more fulfilled and gives you a chance to enjoy life.  My 2 cents... good luck!

mozar

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2022, 02:39:34 PM »
The WHO says that overnight work is a known carcinogen. Basically it causes cancer so leave soon!

StetsTerhune

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2022, 02:47:57 PM »
If I'm reading that right, you're basically sitting there doing nothing for 60 hours a week? I've had jobs that are like that, and my solution was to find a way to feel productive by learning/doing something. Randomly browsing YouTube/the internet all day is absolutely miserable. But if you spend a couple hours a day learning a language (something than can be done largely on YouTube), and a couple hours a day working through a good literature curriculum, and another hour or two very purposely researching something related to a hobby you're excited about, then you'll go home feeling pretty good about your day. Those are obviously just examples of things to do, but it's so easy to let the internet suck away your time and make you feel miserable, you really need to be purposeful.

Tass

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2022, 02:49:55 PM »
The WHO says that overnight work is a known carcinogen. Basically it causes cancer so leave soon!

Technically it's classified as a "probable carcinogen" by the WHO, which means there's no direct evidence of a causal link. The WHO has a pretty broad definition of "probable." It's DEFINITELY bad for you, though.

I could see an upside to this work if you were able to do something useful and fulfilling with those 12 hour youtube shifts. (Basically what StetsTerhune just beat me to saying.) Barring that, it doesn't sound worth it.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2022, 06:14:43 PM »
I've been thinking on that. I have to use subtitles. There are tons of videos that could be more valuable than what I've been watching. Although the setup isn't very conducive to remembering anything. It's loud in a factory. Constant bells, buzzers and sirens.. not to mention the actual production equipment noises. Pallets dropping on concrete, forklifts crashing around, etc. But I could try. I suppose I should tell you all that I want to quit.  Like I hate this job. So I was going to read some reasons why maybe I should not do that. Lol. Or perhaps some encouragement that I'm not just being a childish entitled person who landed a good paying job that asks nearly nothing of me except my time, and I'm complaining about it.

Sibley

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2022, 07:00:42 PM »
It sounds like you can afford to quit. You're job searching, give yourself a reasonable amount of time to find a new job. Set a date. If you get to the date, you can quit.

Tass

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2022, 01:45:35 AM »
Or perhaps some encouragement that I'm not just being a childish entitled person who landed a good paying job that asks nearly nothing of me except my time, and I'm complaining about it.

Zoo animals need enrichment, and you are a good deal smarter than a zoo animal. I'm not going to ask you to be grateful for boredom, lack of agency, or lack of challenge. This is taking your time - the most valuable currency of your life - without giving you anything back mentally or emotionally. It's likely taking your health. You said it's ruining your personal life.

If you can give yourself enrichment, challenge, and agency without quitting this job, then great. Maybe it makes sense to try harder at injecting those things into your working hours before giving up on the whole job. But if it's impossible, then I wouldn't consider "asking nothing of you but your time" a positive attribute.

LightStache

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2022, 05:43:25 PM »
70% to FI is definitely in coast range, so if you're that miserable, go ahead and pull the trigger.

But it makes me wonder what you're going to do instead?

In my experience there's an inverse correlation between job productivity and compensation. This is somewhat covered in the essay and book "Bullshit Jobs" by David Graeber. I used to work with senior execs who flitted from meeting to meeting making millions per year, but they really did nothing at all...just had a lot of pretty stupid discussions. The economically-productive folks get paid the least.

My job is a bit like yours, only maybe 10% necessary, but pretty well compensated.

So what are you going to pick -- high salary and economically useless or low salary and productive?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 05:45:03 PM by LightStache »

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2022, 07:21:17 PM »
I have worked in loud factories and I completely understand why you want to quit. Is it smelly too? Equipment oil and glue, etc? Total lack of natural light, even from 6-8 pm in the summer when you first get to work? Minimal positive interactions with other humans? Poor climate control? Fork lift back up beeping sounds? Ugh, those are the worst.

I have also worked in extremely boring overnight jobs . . . the graveyard shift at a nuclear reactor. Every 2-4 hours I had to do something for a few minutes, but the rest of the time I was just there locked in a big spartan concrete room in an uncomfortable chair with only one other guy for company (who I really didn't like) with no windows under shitty indoor lights watching time pass slowly AF. I didn't last very long in that one.

So I get you.

One of the things I discovered about myself over time is that I need light and lots of it. For awhile I worked day shift in an interior cubicle at a company that had "mood indirect lighting" and it was misery. I literally feel better if I sit in front of one of those ring lights for a Zoom call for an hour . . . so bizarre. So long term night shift in a factory or hospital or anywhere indoors would bury me, literally.

I also need some social interaction with decent human beings at work. Routine coffee break at least twice a shift shooting the breeze about sports or kids or telling jokes or whatever. That helps me. Without that, I'd rather be home by myself, because at least my dog is there cheering me up.

Would you be allowed to wear noise cancelling head phones? Some of those are really good, and I've worked with people who wear them most of the day. Can you set up a really bright "light therapy" kind of light, or even a ring light, shining directly on you for part of your shift. These are the kinds of things I can think of that might make it more bearable. On the nuclear reactor jobs I was able to read several novels, and that helped pass the time in a way that I enjoyed, but it was normally quiet there in between the occasional alarms. The other guy mostly slept, but we didn't have a comfortable situation for sleeping (and we really were not supposed to be asleep on the job.) But 6pm to 6am in a loud factory would never feel great for me. I don't blame you for job searching at all.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2022, 01:14:42 AM »
But it makes me wonder what you're going to do instead?

I'm not completely sure. I have a laundry list of tasks sitting on the backburner at home. I have imagined taking the summer off. I would use this time to replace my fire hazard circuit breaker, replace the carpet in the gym, remodel my work shop, install and repair the insufficient electrical service to the garage and shop,  and sell off a ton of unnecessary stuff. I would also be able to tend the flowers and landscaping. Maybe paint the patio.
Another idea I had was to get hired by the nearest temp. service with the explicit understanding that I did not want full time work, and would prefer weekly assignments at different places.
One last thing I thought of was that so many factories seem to need people with my skills, that I might be able to market myself as a "company" they could call on for emergency work. And then highlighting the value of such an arrangement such as no healthcare, insurance, or benefits costs. My wife says that won't work. Idk.

So what are you going to pick -- high salary and economically useless or low salary and productive?

Well I will be reporting to work tomorrow. I haven't figured anything out yet.

As for wearing headphones: no I can't.

More than ten years ago, I received a monthly stipend of $1400. I wasn't married, or a home owner at the time. Anyways, between my stipend and Ebay selling, I was a pretty happy camper. I didn't save any money those two years. This was long before I'd heard of MMM. I was living according to the Millionaire Next Door principles. And I didn't know much about self managing. Edward Jones had my investments.  The stipend ended when I got my degree, and I've worked a regular job ever since. But I always remember that time. I remember never worrying about money. I remember making money used to be fun. If I could find some under priced item somewhere, repair it, and sell it for a profit, I was ecstatic. And I didn't always make money. Sometimes it was zero sum, or even a loss.  It was a bunch of fun. I never made nearly enough like that to feel the security I have with W2 employment. But damn it was a good time. I wonder if there's not something there I need to be working towards.

So does anybody regret quitting their crappy job, or are we all just working stiffs hoping to be FI someday? Lol

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2022, 01:35:25 AM »
If you are getting paid 60 hours per week, why not actually find a way to be productive? Instead of waiting for the machines to break, can you use your extra time to research preventive or predictive maintenance techniques to keep them from failing? Can you gather data about what kinds of failures there are, build a Pareto chart, and then focus your efforts on the most common failures? Can you organize the spare parts room? Perhaps pursue a certificate in supply chain management from APICS to give you the tools to work on the inventory effectively? What about a certified maintenance and reliability professional (CMRP) certification? Maybe you could take some time and learn about the industrial control systems - how do the PLCs, HMIs, I/O, and their networks work? You mentioned safety as a concern - can you create lock-out tag-out procedures for the equipment? Grainger has some good examples.

You can be bored, or you can make yourself and the place you’re in better. You can watch YouTube for mind numbing time killing non-reasons, or you can watch it to find specific knowledge you can apply at work. You can learn enough to make 50% more or even double your compensation. You can sit there bored and blame someone else for not training you, or you can train yourself and improve your life. Your choice.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2022, 05:28:25 AM »
Did you quit before you should have? Do you regret it? Why?

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2022, 11:32:12 AM »
I didn’t quit. I worked to improve things at work and saw my responsibilities increase and compensation increase. I blew past my original FIRE number and then was recently offered (out of the blue) an interesting opportunity with a different company. There’s some risk, but since I could FIRE, the worst case is that I retire early. And that wouldn’t be so bad, would it?

My biggest regrets? I didn’t use enough opportunities to build my skillsets, and perhaps worse, I didn’t challenge my team to elevate their capabilities like I did in the previous post with you.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2022, 02:30:25 PM »
It's an interesting thing.  I can always tell when I run across someone who has actually been rewarded and can trace that back to what they've personally done.  There has to be more to it than you suggest though.  Or some magical confluence of luck and effort.  I think that because up until I was about 35, your advice would have been directly in line with my own life experience.  I worked hard, and I was rewarded in kind.  I started at the bottom, and invariably found myself at the top of whatever food chain I was currently working in.  But after leaving the military, getting a degree, and securing factory employment, that hasn't been the case.  In fact, I've met nothing but resistance and sabotage in manufacturing.  After a few years of "not getting any training", I went back to college for a second degree.  I was hoping the effort of doing so might be noticed or appreciated.  It wasn't.  In fact, it was down played by my supervisor and the engineering department as pointless.  In general, the people I've seen move up, were remarkably good at tooting their own horn, stealing credit, and lying.  So I left with the hope that this wasn't just the way the world is now.  I found this job.  I applied because it was advertised as a day shift job.  I was so fed up with the last place and the skeevy people who'd become my bosses (and other reasons), that even when I was offered a night shift job, I accepted. 

Since leaving the military, I have helped three people on their journey to bettering their futures.  I can say this because these people will tell you themselves that I was instrumental in their success.  It's rewarding to be told that "I couldn't have done it without you."  But as far as getting ahead by getting noticed and rewarded.  That's just not what I'm seeing.  What it takes is someone else to stand in your corner, loudly telling everyone how smart and valuable you are.  I know this, because I have been that person.  I am the person who can get you noticed.  I can make you indispensable.  But I can't be in my own corner.  And I haven't ever met another person who would do this for me in manufacturing.  Sadly, even one of my "beneficiaries", when called upon to help me secure a teaching position at a college where he had some influence, failed to come through for me.  He couldn't have gotten me the job.  But he could have at least mentioned my name...So look, I'm fairly cynical.  I have seen that all this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff is only half the picture.  So in the meantime, I've been working on my escape.  I'm done with it.  I'm almost there.  I of course, would love to hear that I'm not being childish, or that it seems like I could "coast".  I would really like to hear from someone who has some regrets about leaving too soon. 

If you're curious, my knee jerk reaction to your suggestions wasn't positive.  And after thinking more on them, I have little interest in pursuing any of them.  I already have those skills, but not the certs.  I am supremely and comically over qualified for this job.  That doesn't mean I couldn't get better at things.  Learning never stops. The certifications would maybe move me up, but that's not what I'm here talking about.  I didn't ask how I can be better at my job, or what I could do to succeed, or make this place "better".  I asked for people with regrets about leaving their job too soon, to talk about it.  Either those people don't exist, haven't seen the thread, or are too embarrassed to talk about it.

 I'm looking for a different job, and have the ability to live on MUCH less than I earn.  I wanted to see if anyone was like, " NOOO, don't quit till you're FI, because I did and this is all the bad things that happened."  Making more money is about as low on my list of priorities as it could be.  I'm talking about quality of life, job satisfaction, camaraderie with my fellow humans....That's what I'm after, and sooner than my FI number would allow.  If you've got some reasons why I shouldn't do that, I'm all ears.  But no thank you to any further chasing of the dollar, professional recognition, or "making a difference" at work.  I might happily be a floor cleaner.  At the end of the day, you have a clean floor to show for it.  Get it?  I want to see a result from my effort, OTHER than the paycheck.  Anyways that's off topic too.  I just wanted some cautionary tales about leaving too early, with anecdotal evidence against it.

StetsTerhune

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2022, 03:07:34 PM »
I'm basically FI, and quit my job to "retire" about 5 years ago. My job was not too dissimilar in a lot of ways to what you're describing. I was overqualified, paid pretty well, had a ton of free time, didn't love it but it was fine. I quit because there were things I wanted to do (travel) that I could not do while keeping that job. I quit, did those things for a couple years, then when my circumstances changed (I had a kid), I reevaluated my decision and got another job very similar to the one I quit (though I ended up liking this job much more). Honestly it worked out great, but I only quit because there was a specific thing the job was preventing me from doing.

mozar

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2022, 04:49:00 PM »
It’s not that people who quit too early don’t exist, it’s that at some point you have to move on. I have brief moments where I wish I had stuck with accounting, but I couldn’t. I just have to move forward and make peace with the choices I’ve made. 70% there is pretty sweet. That’s called FU money. From what I’ve seen people tend to regret leaving too late rather than too early.

scottish

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2022, 05:06:05 PM »
It's an interesting thing.  I can always tell when I run across someone who has actually been rewarded and can trace that back to what they've personally done.  There has to be more to it than you suggest though.  Or some magical confluence of luck and effort.  I think that because up until I was about 35, your advice would have been directly in line with my own life experience.  I worked hard, and I was rewarded in kind.  I started at the bottom, and invariably found myself at the top of whatever food chain I was currently working in.  But after leaving the military, getting a degree, and securing factory employment, that hasn't been the case.  In fact, I've met nothing but resistance and sabotage in manufacturing.  After a few years of "not getting any training", I went back to college for a second degree.  I was hoping the effort of doing so might be noticed or appreciated.  It wasn't.  In fact, it was down played by my supervisor and the engineering department as pointless.  In general, the people I've seen move up, were remarkably good at tooting their own horn, stealing credit, and lying.  So I left with the hope that this wasn't just the way the world is now.  I found this job.  I applied because it was advertised as a day shift job.  I was so fed up with the last place and the skeevy people who'd become my bosses (and other reasons), that even when I was offered a night shift job, I accepted. 

Since leaving the military, I have helped three people on their journey to bettering their futures.  I can say this because these people will tell you themselves that I was instrumental in their success.  It's rewarding to be told that "I couldn't have done it without you."  But as far as getting ahead by getting noticed and rewarded.  That's just not what I'm seeing.  What it takes is someone else to stand in your corner, loudly telling everyone how smart and valuable you are.  I know this, because I have been that person.  I am the person who can get you noticed.  I can make you indispensable.  But I can't be in my own corner.  And I haven't ever met another person who would do this for me in manufacturing.  Sadly, even one of my "beneficiaries", when called upon to help me secure a teaching position at a college where he had some influence, failed to come through for me.  He couldn't have gotten me the job.  But he could have at least mentioned my name...So look, I'm fairly cynical.  I have seen that all this "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff is only half the picture.  So in the meantime, I've been working on my escape.  I'm done with it.  I'm almost there.  I of course, would love to hear that I'm not being childish, or that it seems like I could "coast".  I would really like to hear from someone who has some regrets about leaving too soon. 

If you're curious, my knee jerk reaction to your suggestions wasn't positive.  And after thinking more on them, I have little interest in pursuing any of them.  I already have those skills, but not the certs.  I am supremely and comically over qualified for this job.  That doesn't mean I couldn't get better at things.  Learning never stops. The certifications would maybe move me up, but that's not what I'm here talking about.  I didn't ask how I can be better at my job, or what I could do to succeed, or make this place "better".  I asked for people with regrets about leaving their job too soon, to talk about it.  Either those people don't exist, haven't seen the thread, or are too embarrassed to talk about it.

 I'm looking for a different job, and have the ability to live on MUCH less than I earn.  I wanted to see if anyone was like, " NOOO, don't quit till you're FI, because I did and this is all the bad things that happened."  Making more money is about as low on my list of priorities as it could be.  I'm talking about quality of life, job satisfaction, camaraderie with my fellow humans....That's what I'm after, and sooner than my FI number would allow.  If you've got some reasons why I shouldn't do that, I'm all ears.  But no thank you to any further chasing of the dollar, professional recognition, or "making a difference" at work.  I might happily be a floor cleaner.  At the end of the day, you have a clean floor to show for it.  Get it?  I want to see a result from my effort, OTHER than the paycheck.  Anyways that's off topic too.  I just wanted some cautionary tales about leaving too early, with anecdotal evidence against it.

Mr Switch, you should quit and the sooner the better.     Life is brief and time is rushing by much too fast to spend it sitting all night in a noisy factory doing nothing except fucking up your sleep schedule.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2022, 05:20:55 PM »
Sorry, I was thinking you were earlier in your career. I appreciate the additional insight. Yeah, my experience in manufacturing is not understood, and is therefore not appreciated. The people running the show know they’re need the technical capability, and they call for it when things go wrong, but they don’t understand how hard it is do it right all of the time.

You’re not likely to be more appreciated by your present employer even if you do all those things. I was thinking you could use the time you have to get the certifications (and formalize your skills) and then move to a different company for a raise, and then keep playing that game for new challenges, new opportunities, and more money. But I think if your head isn’t in it, it’s probably time to move on like @scottish said.

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2022, 08:41:18 PM »
Did you quit before you should have? Do you regret it? Why?

Never. I have quit several jobs. I never regretted quitting.

When I quit the noisy, sticky glue factory job, I took greater than a 50% pay cut. I was not FI, not even close. In fact we were in debt and digging into a bigger hole by the minute. My spouse was not super happy about my decision, but seemed to realize that I was going to take the lower paying job or do literally nothing for awhile. It took me nearly a decade to get back up to that factory level of pay again, but I was much, much happier with how I was spending my working hours.

I do have one friend who quit a job and regretted it, so I will relay his story here for you. He was a marine navigator and his first job out of the service was on a small research vessel. The ship was staffed by other ex-military but also a team of scientists who had been hired as military subcontractors to map the salinity of the ocean. Apparently you can use the variations in salinity to hide a submarine or something? Dunno exact details, but the work entailed that he, as the navigator, make tiny adjustments for his entire shift to keep the vessel pretty stationary while they made their mapping measurements with a little device they sent down into the ocean on a cable. He was the new guy and thus had the night shift. He found it extremely boring, spending the night shift trying to keep the ship from drifting with these micro-adjustments. He liked moving through the open water fast much more. Other jobs on the big cargo ships he saw advertised paid more, but his pay on the research ship was pretty good. More importantly, he was very bored with his work on this little research ship, and so he quit.

And then he got jobs as a merchant marine navigator. American-staffed cargo vessels apparently do two main things: deliver weapons and deliver humanitarian aid. The pay was higher, and they moved through the open ocean much of the time, so the navigating seemed more meaningful. But he hated it.

For one thing, the research ship he was on for the job he quit had some female staff and scientists on board, while the cargo ships were all guys. Nothing but sweaty guys and roaches and rats for weeks on end. Not his fav. He missed having women around.

For another thing, on the research ship, every few weeks of work they had a scheduled break for a week, and they always went to a tourist port. They'd spend the weeks at sea debating where they wanted to go next on the break, and it was always somewhere fun and awesome. Somewhere people actually want to go on vacation. They'd go ashore instantly and party and see the beautiful sites. The people on the ship were all friendly and all highly educated, so he had a little group of people with him who wanted to explore the towns with him. In contrast, the big cargo ship only went to cargo ports, which tend to not be in the best part of town or even the best parts of the world. The guys on his cargo ships would get off and just stay near the docks going to the bars and whore houses, so he didn't have anyone to go further into towns with him to explore.

He also preferred not to be delivering weapons, so he tried to stick to the humanitarian aid vessels. It wasn't unusual to get stuck sitting at anchor for weeks or even a month waiting for permission to dock at the port and get the cargo unloaded. So there was still plenty of motionless monotony on the cargo ship. He said the last straw was when he sat at anchor for a month waiting to get permission to enter the port at Mogadishu to unload their cargo of food aid.

He told me he regretted quitting the research vessel job. That he was young and stupid and didn't know how good he had it on that job. So there you go.

IslandFiGirl

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2022, 09:45:19 PM »
I didn't ask how I can be better at my job, or what I could do to succeed, or make this place "better".  I asked for people with regrets about leaving their job too soon, to talk about it.

I quit my job 2 years ago.  Main reason...WAY too much stress, unreasonable expectations of me, overworked, underpaid, no life outside of work.  Kinda different from what you're feeling.  However, the premise is the same...don't like job, want to quit.  I say quit.  Did I regret it?  No.  Not at all.  I always knew once I quit, I could always go and find another job, or make up my own jobs.  Heck, my daughter and I picked up dog poop as a side hustle to save a little for her college tuition.  No skin off my nose.  Do what you want to do right now.  Don't worry too much about what you might feel about it later, you may feel great, you may feel bad, but whatever you feel, you can just take action on that at that time.  That's what I'm doing and it's great and I'm at peace with it.  After 2 years of not working, I'm going to take a job at a University that will give my kid 1/2 off of her tuition.  Things change, roll with the punches, but whatever you do, don't think you have to stay for any reason.  You'll be alright with a period of time off or a lesser paying job, so give yourself that grace.

Also, you mentioned not wanting to make the place you are working at better or doing more to succeed at work.  Dude, I am SO in that same place.  I'm 46 (female) and I think I have finally realized that giving so much of myself to a job is a mistake.  It makes me sad because I've always had a great work ethic but trying so hard to impress people and be the best and get recognition, it's just not worth it anymore.  Nowadays, to me, work equals money, you are paying me to do a service, I'll do it then I'll leave.  End of story.  It's a means to an end...to get what you need to live...or save enough to never work again.  :)  Again, good luck in your decision.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2022, 11:07:45 PM »
@IslandFiGirl - great answer!

Another thought that crossed my mind… it is a great time to be looking for a job, especially if you’re technical.

MoseyingAlong

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2022, 12:04:13 AM »
Kinda, kinda not.

I regret not getting the military pension. That would have been nice.
I also think that maybe it might have improved. There were parts I really loved.

On the other hand, it might not have improved and/or might have gotten worse.
I'm glad that I did the things I did instead.

Bottom line. If I was in the same position, with the same info, I would quit again.

From what you've written, I'd advise you to quit. Time is something we don't get back. And spending it on something miserable prevents something better from happening.

Best wishes!

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2022, 02:38:01 PM »
OP, I've been thinking about you. I've been wondering what you could do to kind of halfway your job into something not so miserable, since the pay is more than you think you need.

I was inspired by the "phased retirement" that some places have. I feel like you need less work and would be fine with a little less pay.

So this led me to questions:
How often does the equipment fail and you have to fix it. Every day? Multiple times a shift? Once a week? Less often?
Asking this because I was wondering if they would go for paying you a little less (80% pay?) for having you "on call" to come make the repairs rather than sitting there 12 hours a night, but obviously that's pointless if there are break downs every single night. But if it is more like once a week that you actually have to fix something, you could go to them to propose a win-win: company pays me less salary (win for company, definitely enter the conversation with how much you want to propose they pay instead), you get to be "on call" instead of sitting on the floor all night with nothing that needs fixing most of the time (win for me), equipment still gets repaired at the same speed (win for everyone.)

This works if you live pretty close to work and could reliably be there in a few minutes. Ideally you'd propose a trial period of some length of time (like a month? 3 months?) to see how it goes. No idea if your boss would go for it or not. Some would be totally fine with it, some would be jealous inflexible idiots, or would feel pressured by the other jealous inflexible idiots in the factory to keep the status quo even though it makes no sense for anyone.

I've had bosses go along with my ideas on things like this before . . . At one job I negotiated 4 days work instead of 5 for 80% pay after being there for ~5 years full time. That was pre-pandemic. I had one jealous colleague who complained and tried to torpedo it after the plan started, but he was unsuccessful. Post pandemic at a different job I negotiated work from home 3 out of 5 days a week, with the understanding that I will come in more than twice a week if something especially important is happening where Zoom participation wouldn't work (this hasn't come up at all in the past 6 months.)

You have skills that sound like they are in demand: that's why you might be able to negotiate this. Remember it might take you multiple conversations. Wait for the right time when the decision maker is in a good mood, start with "I have an idea that probably is a win-win that I want to bounce off you on a trial basis." See what they say, and emphasize that no decision should be made right away, let's come back and discuss it again after you've had some time to think about it. Ask: what do you foresee as possible barriers to this plan? What are other options? Let them try to articulate that. Then ask again a few days later. Don't argue about the barriers they state, even if they seem dumb, just say "Ah, I see, hmmm, let me think about that." Then think for a bit, then go back another day and repeat their barriers to them so they know you heard them and try to come up with an alternative (a little lower pay, always going in once an evening for an hour to check things, whatever.) I have no idea what objections they will come up with . . . my boss had trouble coming up with any barriers other than "other people who work here might be jealous." In which case you can counter with "Well, if they complain you can just tell them it was a cut in my pay to save the company money, and then they will feel a lot less jealous." Most people do NOT want any cut in pay. Your boss might even get recognition or a bonus out of the whole plan for saving the company a little money in the new arrangement, so be sure to point out what is directly in it for him.

Anyway, those are my ideas. It would keep you earning the paycheck to get the rest of the way to FIRE, and might dramatically improve your quality of life. Again, the only reason you are getting away with even asking for this is that you have proven you have the skills they need, as I trust you have been competent at your job to the extent that they have allowed. Apologies if this is not at all workable based upon the number of times you need to jump up to fix or adjust something per night.

Tass

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2022, 04:07:51 PM »
I asked for people with regrets about leaving their job too soon, to talk about it.  Either those people don't exist, haven't seen the thread, or are too embarrassed to talk about it.

Or they are not on the MMM forum, a place geared toward quitting your crappy job ASAP.

But also, most people tend to think whatever choice they made was the right one, partly due to the choice-supportive bias. So the crowd you're looking for is scarce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

mistymoney

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2022, 07:47:33 AM »
I sometimes regret leaving the easier job to get more career trajectory, that was about 15 years ago. But I was unhappy at the time and I didn't know that trying to advance was going to be as sucky as it was. It wasn't tooo bad, but I did move into a career where meetings with outside stakeholders occur evenings and weekends, so that was something that ate into my life more than I thought it was as I was living it. But at least now I have some money?

I also think this board is likely not going to pick up what you are looking for. The only reason to not quit a crappy job is if you run into tougher financial difficulties later. So if someone quits their crappy job their regrets would be that they ran out of money too soon - which would be years down the road and it seems that people don't post as much after the years go by after fire. The other reason would be a big hit to their protfolio early on making them financially uncertain very quickly. Since the market has been soaring for over a decade with just a few minor blips <so far!> nobody is likely to have run up against SORR issues. If the stock market had dropped by about 30% a few years ago - and was still there - some might be grousing about what if they had worked a little longer/had just a little more cushion built up. But the reality is that most of those who have quit in the past 5 years are likely doing better than expected. So - nothing to regret!

My father retired around 1980, and I think he did regret it. He mentioned to me that "they" were encouraging people to retire as early as possible, but I don't know who they were. I don't think it was the employer, something like the powers that be, to make room for younger workers? He ended up taking soc secuity and his pensions as early as possible, but then went back to work a few years later and worked part time for around 6 years. He likely would have been ahead by quite a lot if he had stuck to his regular job for something like 2-3 more years. I think he only had 10 years into a really great pension system, so a few more years there would have boosted everything a lot.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2022, 12:43:18 PM »
@Zamboni, your ideas aren't without merit.  But I think it's quite a bit more difficult to push for this in blue collar work.  I really like how you laid it out though, and am entertaining the idea.  The worst possible outcome is a no, which would at least inform my decisions moving forward.  More specifically to your points, I am not within a few minutes of work.  The machines have niggling issues intermittently throughout the day, that we are called upon to "fix".  But it's not actual repair work.  It's more like accessing a "hidden" screen on an HMI to reorder the job list, make minor adjustments to the placement of sensors or switches, or identify the root cause of some minor productivity glitch.  In six months with the employer, the actual time spent performing the work I prefer could be safely estimated at <40 hours.  But that brings us to my final problem.  My lack of long term history with the employer.  It takes years to build a reputation with superiors in this sort of work.  I generally see or speak to the one who makes these sort of decisions about once a month.  And it's more like a "Hi, how's things going?" sort of thing, as he walks by on his way out the door.  So while I think I've done a decent job of showing my coworkers that I'm capable, it would be unlikely I have earned the sort of influence here that might get anyone to actually consider such an outlandish request.  Honestly, my entire way of thinking seems foreign to most people I know.  I talked about this in a previous thread, and got beaten up a little bit about it.  Bottom line being that I can't even get a half decent joke to land without difficulty.  I'm starting to wander off topic, but I think it has to do with the political climate in my area, which could best be described as stark raving lunatic conspiracy theorist headquarters.  I will think about your advice though, and see if there's not some way I can try to gain some traction to that end.

@Tass, thanks for that link!  I've never heard of choice supportive bias.  I kind of think that's a bias more of us ought to embrace.  I personally, am more inclined to think "well that wasn't the best outcome, but the decision has already been made.", when looking back on stuff like this.  This job being a perfect example. I left a place where most of my benefits had been taken away, but I absolutely loved the people and work.  Now I'm at a place where there isn't really any work to do, the benefits are incredible, and I'm having real trouble connecting with my coworkers.  Not the best outcome, but the decision has been made.  Going back wouldn't result in a materially better situation, because I wouldn't be allowed back on day shift, with the guys I left behind. 
@mistymoney you're probably right.  I might be fishing in the wrong waters.  But other than here, I'd be sending letters to the bloggers, Youtubers and podcasters who encourage the FI thing.  While I've had pretty good luck with most of the advice I've gotten from them, there are some distinct differences between them and people who quit and didn't monetize it.  I think the thread worked out though.  People offered what they had, and it gave me a lot to consider so far.  Even the second hand stories have value. 
My wife and I spend almost every moment together with "what are we gonna do about this situation" as the main topic of discussion.  I believe the solution is to separate ourselves from this company.  But before we do, I will have to make a plan for income.  I've been running the sims, and we should be fine in most situations, barring a catastrophic health problem.  It's an unfortunate turn of events in an otherwise bright and shiny effort towards empowering ourselves. 
Thanks for all the advice everyone!

March

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2022, 02:21:42 PM »
This is what the boss is thinking: "why is this employee content just to sit there when all this work needs doing?"

If you are getting paid 60 hours per week, why not actually find a way to be productive? Instead of waiting for the machines to break, can you use your extra time to research preventive or predictive maintenance techniques to keep them from failing? Can you gather data about what kinds of failures there are, build a Pareto chart, and then focus your efforts on the most common failures? Can you organize the spare parts room? Perhaps pursue a certificate in supply chain management from APICS to give you the tools to work on the inventory effectively? What about a certified maintenance and reliability professional (CMRP) certification? Maybe you could take some time and learn about the industrial control systems - how do the PLCs, HMIs, I/O, and their networks work? You mentioned safety as a concern - can you create lock-out tag-out procedures for the equipment? Grainger has some good examples.

You can be bored, or you can make yourself and the place you’re in better. You can watch YouTube for mind numbing time killing non-reasons, or you can watch it to find specific knowledge you can apply at work. You can learn enough to make 50% more or even double your compensation. You can sit there bored and blame someone else for not training you, or you can train yourself and improve your life. Your choice.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2022, 03:53:05 PM »
I could say alot of snarky things to that. But I'll just say you're wrong.

LightStache

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2022, 04:22:44 PM »
This is what the boss is thinking: "why is this employee content just to sit there when all this work needs doing?"

If you are getting paid 60 hours per week, why not actually find a way to be productive? Instead of waiting for the machines to break, can you use your extra time to research preventive or predictive maintenance techniques to keep them from failing? Can you gather data about what kinds of failures there are, build a Pareto chart, and then focus your efforts on the most common failures? Can you organize the spare parts room? Perhaps pursue a certificate in supply chain management from APICS to give you the tools to work on the inventory effectively? What about a certified maintenance and reliability professional (CMRP) certification? Maybe you could take some time and learn about the industrial control systems - how do the PLCs, HMIs, I/O, and their networks work? You mentioned safety as a concern - can you create lock-out tag-out procedures for the equipment? Grainger has some good examples.

You can be bored, or you can make yourself and the place you’re in better. You can watch YouTube for mind numbing time killing non-reasons, or you can watch it to find specific knowledge you can apply at work. You can learn enough to make 50% more or even double your compensation. You can sit there bored and blame someone else for not training you, or you can train yourself and improve your life. Your choice.

I think this is wrong too. OP already said he's over-qualified for the work.

Many megacorps don't want employees with initiative and they certainly don't care about all this logical nonsense about productivity and cost at the individual level. They just want you to stay in your lane and do an adequate job without making a fuss. This would just annoy mid-level supervisors because it would make extra work.

March

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2022, 07:04:24 PM »
Get a challenging job and don’t look back.

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2022, 10:45:49 PM »
^Yes, that would result in more happiness.

This is what the boss is thinking: "why is this employee content just to sit there when all this work needs doing?"

Incorrect for 90+% of bosses in factory jobs, and double especially for people working during graveyard shift. The plant manager just want the line to keep running. Or the reactor to not melt down overnight. Or whatever minimal level of operation keeps them from having to think too much about what happens when they are not there. They don't want to be bothered with a graveyard shift employee bugging them with "Hey I have some ideas for making things better here." The worst bosses actually find this level of initiative and competence very threatening, and will steal the ideas, pass them off as their own, and then can the person the first chance they get. Super productive people can be a pain to manage. I've been told by bosses point blank to work slower and get less done: "pace yourself." I've also been told "You are making everyone else look bad, and that is bad for morale, so knock it off."

OP is cynical for good reason. Sure, there are jobs where industrious gets recognized and rewarded, but there are also many jobs where it backfires instead.

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2022, 11:26:14 PM »
Zambonis description is a realistic representation of my experience in manufacturing.
I put in my resignation notice today. On the way to sign the papers, my supervisor told me, " I don't blame you. Actually as soon as my truck is paid off, I'll be looking to get out of here too."
Other memorable quotes from coworkers: "This place is like a prison.", "I've built my life around this income. I'm stuck here.", and "Starting here was the worst decision of my whole life. I wish I NEVER took this job." So I assume I'm seeing it for what it is. Lol
I guess we will see what else is out there. I'll try to remember to update the thread if it all goes belly up on me.

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2022, 04:48:24 AM »
^Congratulations!

Those quotes are telling. Sounds like you are not crazy . . . didn't think you were.

Quote
I'll try to remember to update the thread if it all goes belly up on me.

It won't. No idea where you live, or if you are willing/able/will need to relocate, but overall this is an absolutely great time to be looking for work.

You should update the thread when you end up doing something you like much better again.

plank

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2022, 05:37:59 AM »
Just out of curiosity, how long would you have to stay at that job to go from 70% FI to 100% FI?

svosavvy

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2022, 06:17:10 AM »
I left my job of 21 years back on 6/3/21.  I do catch myself having "regrets" sometimes.  More often, when I do a real assessment of my feelings about the place I realize; I regret a place that doesn't and didn't actually exist.  Romantically, I would think if I just stayed another 11 years to get the full pension the place might have gotten better over time.  Or maybe it would go back to being a good place to work like when I was first hired there in 2000. 

Funny thing, this last November they made it to the local news about some mass staff exodus in this large state agency.  My Grandma who still watches local news told me about it and I saw it online.  Color me not surprised and added to the already overwhelming evidence that I made the right choice.  Much it sounds, like, when you put in your resignation.

It wouldn't surprise me if your employer tries to sweeten the deal during your notice time before you walk out the door.  That will be hard because you will tell yourself to maybe stick it out.  Bad jobs seem a lot like bad relationships, sticking it out to see if things get better.  Not realizing the level of toxicity in your life.

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2022, 03:02:45 PM »
@plank, there's not a good way to determine it.  Personal Capital has it mapped out at three years. But there's always that possibility of another ten year negative return period, right? Seeing as how I wasn't planning to quit working once I reach FI, punishing myself with a job I hate doesn't make much sense.  There's literally no end in sight as far as working. I need to work(for psychological, physical, and social reasons).  But I don't have to hate my work. In fact the primary reason for leaving this one is that those needs are not being met at this job. Being a slug, for above average pay, isn't what I would call work. It's just misery. Lol

LightStache

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2022, 07:38:37 AM »
Being a slug, for above average pay, isn't what I would call work. It's just misery. Lol

Damn, maybe I should change my handle to MrSlug? ;)

light switch

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2022, 05:15:27 PM »
I was asked to update the thread, so here goes.
I interviewed for a different job before my notice had expired. They made an offer during my first week of being unemployed. I took three weeks off, and made real progress on my "honey do" list. I got a raise. I got my preferred shift.  I got two more weeks of vacation. The job will be a step up professionally. I will be creating machine programming, as well as building machines from requests. This is going to be a solid mix of what I already know and what I know I don't know. So it's a little scary, and mentally engaging, and challenging. It seems awesome. I'm sure I will find things to dislike as time goes by, but I'm pretty hopeful.  For the first time in 20 years, I wasn't ready to quit(for the day) when my shift was over.  I was keen to stick around, because we were doing something that captured my focus. I went home anyways on principle. Lol.  So there's my update.

LightStache

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2022, 07:59:29 PM »
I was asked to update the thread, so here goes.
I interviewed for a different job before my notice had expired. They made an offer during my first week of being unemployed. I took three weeks off, and made real progress on my "honey do" list. I got a raise. I got my preferred shift.  I got two more weeks of vacation. The job will be a step up professionally. I will be creating machine programming, as well as building machines from requests. This is going to be a solid mix of what I already know and what I know I don't know. So it's a little scary, and mentally engaging, and challenging. It seems awesome. I'm sure I will find things to dislike as time goes by, but I'm pretty hopeful.  For the first time in 20 years, I wasn't ready to quit(for the day) when my shift was over.  I was keen to stick around, because we were doing something that captured my focus. I went home anyways on principle. Lol.  So there's my update.

Wow so awesome to hear! Thanks for sharing.

Moonwaves

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2022, 12:42:44 AM »
What a lovely update. Very glad to hear it.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2022, 05:04:46 AM »
Awesome.  I probably needed a new job my last two years or so, but I was so close, it wasn’t worth the effort to interview, learn new systems, etc just to quit once I was up and running.  Job market was different back then as well.  We alternated between hair on fire and dead, so I did quite a bit of reading during the slow times.  A lot of it here.  Really helped me with my tax strategies.

mistymoney

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2022, 11:45:03 AM »
great news! Congrats!

Zamboni

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Re: Did you quit your crappy job too early?
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2022, 01:08:24 AM »
Thank you for the glorious update. Congrats!