Dental insurance

[fidreamer]

Anyone have suggestions on a family dental plan?

[Monkey Uncle]

My family has always self-insured on dental, because the policies never penciled out as cost-effective.  If your teeth are in good shape, you can cut back to once/year checkups & cleanings rather than every 6 months.  The 6 month interval is something that was invented by dentists to get you in their chair more often.  Kind of like the once/year "checkup" that was invented by general practitioners.

[fidreamer]

My family has always self-insured on dental, because the policies never penciled out as cost-effective.  If your teeth are in good shape, you can cut back to once/year checkups & cleanings rather than every 6 months.  The 6 month interval is something that was invented by dentists to get you in their chair more often.  Kind of like the once/year "checkup" that was invented by general practitioners.

Really good point.  I am going to look into this.

[PizzaSteve]

In my area i have been very dissappointed by what insurance actually covers.  That '80% coverage' turned out to be more like  25%.  The coverage is a rip off.

[crentist]

My family has always self-insured on dental, because the policies never penciled out as cost-effective.  If your teeth are in good shape, you can cut back to once/year checkups & cleanings rather than every 6 months.  The 6 month interval is something that was invented by dentists to get you in their chair more often.  Kind of like the once/year "checkup" that was invented by general practitioners.

You are mostly correct. People have much better oral health than when these recommendations started.  Most children and elderly= those at highest risk of decay should go twice a year. Most kids should get x rays once a year since the enamel is so thin cavities can wreak havoc quickly. I have some elderly and poor saliva producing patients that come in 3-4 times a year and we usually get an X-ray every 6 months to keep an eye on things. Some patients produce a ton of calculus and really need at least a cleaning every 6 months. I would ask your dentist "do you think it would be ok if I only came once a year?" they will give you an honest answer.  Your diet has more to do with decay than most think...

[crentist]

Find a dentist you trust and isn't upselling etc. and stay with them. I have patients with incipient lesions that I'm afraid if they went somewhere else they would be rec'd fillings. Not really because they are overly aggressive but because I'm just comfortable watching these lesions because I have seen little to no progression for 3-4 years. Now if one of these patients fell off the radar for 2-3 years things can go downhill and go from conservative filling to a large filling or worse.
Insurance is usually a rip off and I'm surprised most employers pay the fees they do. I would bet if people saved a little better dental insurance would be much less common.

[TheThirstyStag]

I have been hesitant to even use the word "insurance" in the context of dental care.  To me, insurance has to have some degree of catastrophic coverage.  With such low calendar-year maxes and generally non-generous coverage amounts for serious oral surgery, I really think that most of these should be called "Dental plans".  They're really budget plans.  Just about anyone on these forums can probably do better if they self-insure in a liquid online savings account. 

That said, there are commercial products (like Dentrite) that are discount plans, but pretty much pay for themselves if you do use 2 checkups per year with bitewing X-rays.  I already took my wife off of my employer's dental "insurance" and she pays for a discount plan - we're already about $1000 in the black over the past 3 years by using this strategy versus putting her on my employer plan.  Then again, she has very healthy teeth. 

If you have access to a FSA or HSA, even better - you can self-insure tax-free.

[Hargrove]

Dental insurance is awful.

I have pretty sweet insurance. My company plan offers full medical, usually no copay, 2k deductible a year but they pay in 1k/yr, so your max deductible is 1k/yr and your lowest is 0 (because it stacks).

My dental plan options with the same company were a 1000 dollar coupon or a 1500 dollar coupon.

The best dental insurance is the trope you usually hear about medical insurance: prevention. Brush your teeth and actually floss. Do the regular checkups and cleaning. I did not do this from a time I didn't have money to go to a dentist. My "catch up contribution" was about 5-6k for a deep cleaning, a few cavities, and crowning one broken tooth, but it would have crept close to 10k if I needed a root canal on the broken tooth.

[Spork]

My family has always self-insured on dental, because the policies never penciled out as cost-effective.  If your teeth are in good shape, you can cut back to once/year checkups & cleanings rather than every 6 months.  The 6 month interval is something that was invented by dentists to get you in their chair more often.  Kind of like the once/year "checkup" that was invented by general practitioners.

You are mostly correct. People have much better oral health than when these recommendations started.  Most children and elderly= those at highest risk of decay should go twice a year. Most kids should get x rays once a year since the enamel is so thin cavities can wreak havoc quickly. I have some elderly and poor saliva producing patients that come in 3-4 times a year and we usually get an X-ray every 6 months to keep an eye on things. Some patients produce a ton of calculus and really need at least a cleaning every 6 months. I would ask your dentist "do you think it would be ok if I only came once a year?" they will give you an honest answer.  Your diet has more to do with decay than most think...

I second (third?) these.  We've been FIRE about 2 years.  I switched to once a year checkups and the dentist/hygienist were fine with it.  With each checkup I ask for verification: "Is once a year working for me?"  They always tell me it is and I'm doing fine.

The cost has so far been minimal.  They also give a "cash or check and we don't file insurance" discount.   

People think they need dental insurance because they've been getting it through work for so long. (This is just like they think a healthy person needs a low deductible/low out of pocket health plan.)  It's very nice if you get it for free.  It's not worth paying for if you don't.

[Hargrove]

People think they need dental insurance because they've been getting it through work for so long. (This is just like they think a healthy person needs a low deductible/low out of pocket health plan.)  It's very nice if you get it for free.  It's not worth paying for if you don't.

With medical I think it's different. Cancer and autoimmune diseases sometimes just happen. Dental, however, can almost always provide 100% effective preventive care, which makes its insurance irrelevant.

[Spork]

People think they need dental insurance because they've been getting it through work for so long. (This is just like they think a healthy person needs a low deductible/low out of pocket health plan.)  It's very nice if you get it for free.  It's not worth paying for if you don't.

With medical I think it's different. Cancer and autoimmune diseases sometimes just happen. Dental, however, can almost always provide 100% effective preventive care, which makes its insurance irrelevant.

They do.  That's what high deductible plans are for: to pay those enormous bills.  Paying for checkups and normal stuff is (IMO) not what insurance is for.  It's like car insurance paying for oil changes.

[Hargrove]

Well, really, we agree on that too, but HDHPs are not affordable for a lot of people. They're AWESOME for Mustachians and rich people (who Mustachians often are), but as a matter for the general population, I think a lot of poor people are hurt by HDHPs until they cross the healthy income/expense ratio to take advantage of them.

I think a person can get out of that rut. I do not think ALL people can get out of that rut.

[VeggieGirl]

Over the years I've looked into dental insurance a few times and the numbers never seem to work out for what you pay and what you get in benefits. Just not worth it. So like others have posted, I just pay out of pocket and take good care of my teeth. Brush for the full 2 minutes, it makes a huge difference and floss. Find a good dentist that's not out to gouge you. I go every 6 months but only get bitewings every 2 years unless something needs to be x-rayed.

[chemistk]

My employer offers a decent plan, we pay (per year) about what 2 checkups cost OOP. We also know our dentist and trust his opinion, so we feel comfortable going 2x a year.

There was a point last year where this dentist wasn't taking our insurance so we self insured for a lot of our work. 

Even if things were a little more $$, both my wife and I don't have the greatest teeth. We each have week/absent enamel, and each of us will probably need some reconstructive work done down the road. For these reasons, it's worth it for me.

I can definitely see the reasons you'd choose not to have it though.

[Loretta]

This is an area where if you know you have bad dental genetics, you might invest a little more. 

[RedmondStash]

One thing to note if you choose to pay out of pocket for dental costs is that you will likely reduce visits even if it isn't a good idea. It's true with vision insurance too. If you know it's covered at least partly, you go regularly. If you know you're paying for every penny, you're more reluctant to go.

Just be aware of that tendency when making your plans. Make a decision up front as to how often you'll go in for maintenance (consulting the relevant doctors). Otherwise, you're likely to just let it slide unconsciously.

[SimplyFinanciallyFree]

We actually just recently started selling individual plans.  They have lots of options which aren't all that bad.
https://www.dentalforall.com/default.aspx?linkid=oq8egdkp

[Altons Bobs]

Dental insurance is only a good deal if the employer is paying a part of the premium, otherwise it's more cost effective for you to self-pay.  Individual Dental Insurance is never a good deal.

[mm1970]

Generally dental insurance isn't a good deal. 

At my current company, there are three levels.  Company-paid, which only works for 5 dentists.  The slightly upgraded plan, which has maybe 20-30 dentists.  And the PPO plan, which covers any dentists.

Once I started at this company (hubby's doesn't have dental), I used the company-paid one for emergencies, and then we paid out of pocket because our chosen dentists were not on the cheap plan.  Paying cash means we got a discount from the dentists.

We pretty much go 2x a year.  I've had friends with dentists who insist on 3x a year, even though their insurance only pay for 2x.  Nope. 

So, the advantage to the company-paid plan is that when hubby needed a root canal, our dentist was able to look through "the list" and recommend a good dentist.

Once kid #2 turned 2, we then had 4 people going to the dentist 2x a year.  That's when it became financially beneficial to upgrade the dental plan.  The annual premiums are $900-1000.

Each dentist visit is $200-$250.  So, let's call it $225x8.  That's $1800.  Because our dentists (one adult, one pediatric) are not "in network" we are covered at 80%, not 100%.  Still coverage is $1440 a year, more than our premiums.

And that's just basic service.  If we have a crown, a root canal, a filling, etc., it covers that partially too.  Calendar year max per person at $1500.

Math-wise, it worked out when we added the 4th member.  Didn't really work out before that.

[Zinsch]

I've had dental insurance two years ago, then skipped one year, and now have it again this year.
I definitely get my money's worth. Maxed out on the benefits in the first year, and I'm about half way through the benefits this year. My teeth are in not so good shape, so this is a classic example of adverse selection.

[Drifterrider]

I have MetLife dental supplemental.  I don't know if that is available to you.  Mine has paid for itself.  The only issue I find is my preferred provider trying to get more, from me, than the agreed to cost.

[COEE]

Aren't you required to have a dental plan for the ACA?  I thought you at least had to have a child plan (to offset a less fortunate child).  But I'm no expert on the subject - obviously.

[Bimmy]

We do not have dental insurance. We called and called dentists until we found someone willing to give us a good cash price. The adults go in every 12 months, and the kids go in every 6 months.

This dentist is at least 30 minutes from the closest town- so he is a bit of a drive. However, he is 50-70% cheaper than everyone else. Totally worth the drive. I can also trust him to not "upsell" me on things that I dont need.

I asked him about dental insurance- he laughed and said it was rip off insurance.

[Gumption]

I have found dental insurance to not be worth it over simply paying cash.
Many times, you can negotiate a better rate with the dentist if they know you'll be paying cash.

[Proud Foot]

Do you already have a dentist you like?  If not you could find one within a nationwide chain that has a discount plan. Usually this is cheaper than dental insurance and provides similar "coverage".

[SimplyFinanciallyFree]

You could check out Starmount.  I am going to consider one of their more basic plans with vision when we reach FIRE.

https://www.dentalforall.com/default.aspx?linkid=oq8egdkp

[nara]

Something else to consider.... If you pay out of pocket for your dental procedures you will be paying a higher rate!

I had a cheap, self-insured dental plan for $30 a month. I was only really paying for cleanings. But I unexpectedly had a tooth crack at the root (due to years of grinding). My dental insurance wouldn't cover anything other than part of the extraction, so I cancelled it. However, the cost my dentist quoted me for out of pocket was $750 more than if I had kept my insurance. I completely forgot that when you have insurance (even if it doesn't cover anything) the added benefit is that you can  never be charged more than the contracted rate that the provider accepts by being in network. So my $4350 crown is now $5000 without having insurance.

[Spork]

Something else to consider.... If you pay out of pocket for your dental procedures you will be paying a higher rate!

I had a cheap, self-insured dental plan for $30 a month. I was only really paying for cleanings. But I unexpectedly had a tooth crack at the root (due to years of grinding). My dental insurance wouldn't cover anything other than part of the extraction, so I cancelled it. However, the cost my dentist quoted me for out of pocket was $750 more than if I had kept my insurance. I completely forgot that when you have insurance (even if it doesn't cover anything) the added benefit is that you can  never be charged more than the contracted rate that the provider accepts by being in network. So my $4350 crown is now $5000 without having insurance.

YMMV.  My dentist gives a lower rate for cash/check and no insurance. 

[fattest_foot]

One thing to note if you choose to pay out of pocket for dental costs is that you will likely reduce visits even if it isn't a good idea. It's true with vision insurance too. If you know it's covered at least partly, you go regularly. If you know you're paying for every penny, you're more reluctant to go.

Just be aware of that tendency when making your plans. Make a decision up front as to how often you'll go in for maintenance (consulting the relevant doctors). Otherwise, you're likely to just let it slide unconsciously.

I know this is a slight derail, but because people have mentioned dental insurance not being technically insurance, vision insurance certainly doesn't qualify as insurance.

Almost all maladies of the eye will be covered by health insurance, not vision insurance. Vision insurance is basically "eye ware" insurance. If you need glasses and contacts and go through a ton of them, vision might be worthwhile. But don't expect that your vision insurance is covering you if you have some kind of eye injury or genetic disorder. It's not for that.

[anonymouscow]

My work offers dental, but it does not seem very useful.

$247 / year in premiums, $50 deductible.

100% preventative care, 80% basic, 50% major.

$1,000 / year maximum benefit.

It seems kind of a backwards system. My SO needs work on one tooth and it is going to be around 2k. I would rather have more coverage for the major things, not the small things.

[RedmondStash]

One thing to note if you choose to pay out of pocket for dental costs is that you will likely reduce visits even if it isn't a good idea. It's true with vision insurance too. If you know it's covered at least partly, you go regularly. If you know you're paying for every penny, you're more reluctant to go.

Just be aware of that tendency when making your plans. Make a decision up front as to how often you'll go in for maintenance (consulting the relevant doctors). Otherwise, you're likely to just let it slide unconsciously.

I know this is a slight derail, but because people have mentioned dental insurance not being technically insurance, vision insurance certainly doesn't qualify as insurance.

Almost all maladies of the eye will be covered by health insurance, not vision insurance. Vision insurance is basically "eye ware" insurance. If you need glasses and contacts and go through a ton of them, vision might be worthwhile. But don't expect that your vision insurance is covering you if you have some kind of eye injury or genetic disorder. It's not for that.

It's true, but your first stop to get those diagnosed is typically your eye doctor, with that visit covered under vision insurance. That's often how you get the diagnosis that moves you into being covered by medical insurance. You may not even realize you have a problem that needs treating if you don't get regular vision check-ups. That's why the reduction in visit frequency is worrisome; a problem can get a lot worse before you even know it exists.

[fattest_foot]

It's true, but your first stop to get those diagnosed is typically your eye doctor, with that visit covered under vision insurance. That's often how you get the diagnosis that moves you into being covered by medical insurance. You may not even realize you have a problem that needs treating if you don't get regular vision check-ups. That's why the reduction in visit frequency is worrisome; a problem can get a lot worse before you even know it exists.

Still doesn't seem worthwhile to me. I want to say my premiums were about $12/month, plus a copay. Paying out of pocket is about the same cost.

So I'm sticking with vision insurance being good if you require a ton of prescriptions, or if you're bad at math.

[deborah]

I'm in Australia, so dental insurance is different for us. However, what happens in the US when a person needs to have all their teeth removed?

When I was at uni, one of my friends had all his teeth out because he had some gum disease. Much more recently, a friend's husband was having very agressive cancer treatment, and as part of the preparation for this, they said he had to have all his teeth removed because the chemo would adversely affect the jaw.

[nara]

I'm in Australia, so dental insurance is different for us. However, what happens in the US when a person needs to have all their teeth removed?

When I was at uni, one of my friends had all his teeth out because he had some gum disease. Much more recently, a friend's husband was having very agressive cancer treatment, and as part of the preparation for this, they said he had to have all his teeth removed because the chemo would adversely affect the jaw.

If it can be considered medical then medical insurance would cover it. However, if it's dental and they don't have insurance or dental insurance doesn't cover it, then it's all out of pocket. A lot of times extractions are covered under dental, but they consider implants to be cosmetic.

[TomTX]

Something else to consider.... If you pay out of pocket for your dental procedures you will be paying a higher rate!

I had a cheap, self-insured dental plan for $30 a month. I was only really paying for cleanings. But I unexpectedly had a tooth crack at the root (due to years of grinding). My dental insurance wouldn't cover anything other than part of the extraction, so I cancelled it. However, the cost my dentist quoted me for out of pocket was $750 more than if I had kept my insurance. I completely forgot that when you have insurance (even if it doesn't cover anything) the added benefit is that you can  never be charged more than the contracted rate that the provider accepts by being in network. So my $4350 crown is now $5000 without having insurance.

YMMV.  My dentist gives a lower rate for cash/check and no insurance.

Depends on the insurance. We have been very happy using a dental discount plan - prenegotiated, discount prices, which ended up cheaper than my dentist's cash price (only a 10% discount) even including the cost of what I pay the discount plan. The dental insurance offered through my work is utter crap. Costs a lots, covers little, low cap. I was THRILLED when work started offering the exact same dental discount plan I had bought on the open market, but ~25% cheaper.

All we need to do is 2 cleanings with 1 set of bitewings, and the discount plan more than pays for itself.

[Spork]

Something else to consider.... If you pay out of pocket for your dental procedures you will be paying a higher rate!

I had a cheap, self-insured dental plan for $30 a month. I was only really paying for cleanings. But I unexpectedly had a tooth crack at the root (due to years of grinding). My dental insurance wouldn't cover anything other than part of the extraction, so I cancelled it. However, the cost my dentist quoted me for out of pocket was $750 more than if I had kept my insurance. I completely forgot that when you have insurance (even if it doesn't cover anything) the added benefit is that you can  never be charged more than the contracted rate that the provider accepts by being in network. So my $4350 crown is now $5000 without having insurance.

YMMV.  My dentist gives a lower rate for cash/check and no insurance.

Depends on the insurance. We have been very happy using a dental discount plan - prenegotiated, discount prices, which ended up cheaper than my dentist's cash price (only a 10% discount) even including the cost of what I pay the discount plan. The dental insurance offered through my work is utter crap. Costs a lots, covers little, low cap. I was THRILLED when work started offering the exact same dental discount plan I had bought on the open market, but ~25% cheaper.

All we need to do is 2 cleanings with 1 set of bitewings, and the discount plan more than pays for itself.

We also do only 1 cleaning per year.  Every year, we ask "is that working?"  Every year they say "yes, you're fine with just one per year."  Again: YMMV.

[BTDretire]

 I don't get the point of dental insurance.
Most years I spend $200 to $250. Even after price increases of the dentist that took over from my old dentist.
 Over the years I have had a few crowns, but $750 to $1,000 is not something that I think needs to be insured for.
I suppose if I knew I would be needing some expensive procedure it might be worth signing up, but I also think that is
a bit underhanded.
 

[rantk81]

My employer provided dental insurance is a really good deal.  The payroll premiums are about equivalent to the cost of the cash price of two exams/cleanings.  I obviously take advantage of this, as it must be heavily subsidized by my employer.

If it cost a lot more for insurance, I certainly wouldn't use insurance, as cash prices for most dental procedures are no big deal for a typical mustachian.

[HMman]

As far as I can see the OP didn't put what country they're from, let alone a more specific location. The default answers have been assuming the USA, but the Mustachian community is world-wide. Perhaps that information would be useful?

EDIT: It seems this is an old post, and the OP is likely long gone. My bad.

[BuddyXL]

I had dental insurance for years at my previous employer yet each procedure would always come back with the insurance stating they paid "100%" yet I would still owe money.

So I would always call them and they would say for x procedure their cap was say $2k and my dentist charged $2,300 so I owed the balance.  I then talked to my dentist and he said they have two prices, one for insured and one for non insured.

His non-insured prices were less then what I was paying for the annual premium and the cost difference my insurance never paid.

I have not had dental insurance since.