Deciding when to stop having kids?

[skuzuker28]

I feel silly asking this, but I feel like I need some impersonal advice regarding when to put a stop to having kids.  My wife and I currently have 3 daughters: 4.5, 3.5, and 1.5.  About 6 months ago we discussed whether we'd want to have a 4th kid, and my wife decided that she was done.  Given that she has the very difficult job of carrying and delivering the child, when she said she didn't want a fourth that made the decision easy in my mind. 

Recently however, she thinks she may be changing her mind and the discussion is reopened.  Where before I didn't really give it much thought, now I'm trying to figure out what I want.  On one hand, I love kids (mine in particular) and who knows, maybe it will be a boy this time!  On the other hand, it would introduce some logistical challenges:
-We both work full-time, and currently split kid-schlepping duties with me dropping off and her picking up.  4 small kids would not fit safely in my sedan, so we'd need to make some work schedule changes unless I get a larger vehicle.
-Finding babysitters for date nights and such is already a little challenging with 3 littles.
-While financially we can "afford" another child, it would slow down our savings.

We are blessed that we both have good-paying jobs, and are able to have the choice in this.  How did you decide your family was complete?

EDIT: I should add that I'm scheduled to get snipped in a couple weeks, so there is a little bit of urgency in the decision though I could delay the procedure.

[GuitarStv]

The second week after the birth of my (only) son, we both decided 'never again'.

[red_pill]

I think that world (over)population and environmental impact ought to be included in these decisions.  It was for us, anyway.

[SunnyDays]

Why might you want a 4th child?  Can you articulate this?  Are you really longing for a boy and if so, what if it's a girl?  Is the cuteness of a baby a strong pull?  Once you have number 4, will you want number 5?  I would do some real soul-searching and try to pin-point what's behind the desire, because it's sure not something you want to regret doing.

[mm1970]

We were one and done, then we weren't and tried for a second, then it didn't happen.

Then we gave away the crib, and I got pregnant. 

After the second one, we were definitely done (I was 42!) but there was a week when the baby was 6 months old when I thought...maybe...but no, at 7 months he stopped sleeping and that was that.  Snip snip.

Logistically I'd stop.

[mozar]

If want you really want is a boy (I don't judge) the eggs can be harvested and screened for gender.
It's true that having another kid in certain countries is the worst thing you can do for the environment in terms of resources. But, this environmental emergency isn't going go away because a few rich people had one less kid. This is a group effort that needs coordination on the local, state, and federal levels. So I'll make you a deal op. You can have another kid if you donate or get involved with climate change action.

[Christof]

My personal experience with other issues is that if I question something, rationalize something or need to explain something, than it is a strong indication that something might not be the right thing to do. Of course, this is just me.

On the kids side: My parent‘s started to have doubts after three kids and stopped after four. For us the choice was made to have only one due to fertility issues. We were planning on having two or three, but alas.

[MrThatsDifferent]

I’ll never forget a woman who presented at a conference and said having a 4th child was her worst mistake. A month after, a colleague who had a fourth child, that he didn’t want, left his wife. Do with that what you will.

[Catbert]

I certainly can't tell you what you want to do or ought to do although 3 seems plenty to me.  I will point out that every child comes with a chance that something will be wrong.  I won't enumerate the possible problems - you know them as well.  Does you draw for another child consider the possible downsides?

[Cranky]

I think it depends on a lot of things - your age, your general finances, your overall values.

I adored having little kids, but my 3rd pregnancy, I was 39yo and I just did not feel as good that time. I cried every time I gave away baby stuff, and at the very same time, if I’d gotten pregnant I’d have jumped off the roof.

Don’t rush into anything? You’ll know.

[LWYRUP]

For us, it was easy.  At two, we felt we had more love to give.  After three, we are tired.  Plus I really do want to RE and go travel once they are launched and the more kids we tack on the tougher that will be. 

We're very happy with three and are also happy to keep it that way.

[Pigeon]

Dh and I both came from large families and knew we didn't want that. We felt that we could give two kids adequate attention, so that's what we did.

[seemsright]

I hated being pregnant. I hated the infant stage, I hated the toddler stage and the preschool age was so hard you could not pay me all of the money in the world to do that again.

Now that dd is 9 she is fun, and I am flat out glad I had her but one and done.

[BostonBrit]

Controversial it seems.. but big families are great fun. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

[Rylito]

I knew that limiting the number of kids I had was the single best thing I could do for the planet, so I got my tubes tied after my first kid.  After that, my husband and I discussed possibly adopting or fostering kids if we wanted to have a larger family, but we ended up feeling our family was complete as it was with just one child.

[Blue Skies]

When my youngest was little I thought for a while that I might want one more.  Then one day I was sure I didn't.  About 6 months after that DH got snipped.  We have never regretted that decision. 
I would say you should put off the procedure and let things settle.  At some point you will be sure one way or the other, and you can move forward from there.  And if you are never sure - well, I wouldn't do anything permanent either way until then.

[AMandM]

You don't have to decide once and for all; you can just decide "not now," and see whether you later decide "now's the time for another."

I'll cast another vote for more. I kind of regret not having had an eighth. I'm not convinced by the environmental argument. IME the total consumption of resources isn't reduced, it's just concentrated in fewer kids. My seven kids camping in one van doesn't hurt the planet as much as one kid flying to a vacation in Europe.

[englishteacheralex]

I wish I knew the answer to this question. Whether or not to have a third has been plaguing my thoughts ever since my second was born three years ago.

I've mostly settled into "probably not: we're too old and little kids are too hard" territory (I'm 40). If I had been younger when I married, I probably would have had three, but I married at 33 and had my first at 34 and I need more time for the kids to grow up before I can contemplate another baby.

What's allowed me to have peace at that (mostly closed) decision is the knowledge that it will free us up to do other things that we find meaningful and service-oriented, and to be able to do those things sooner. We are seriously considering becoming foster parents, and I can't imagine doing that until both my kids are in elementary school. To add another one of our own in the mix would put off the possibility of foster care that much longer.

People have children for different reasons, but our reasons for doing so have to do with a sense of meaning and purpose in creating a stable family, hopefully with productive citizens who contribute to society when they're older. It helped me a lot to stop having that anxious fear of future regret when I realized that it's possible to scratch the itch of meaning and purpose in other ways beyond having another child.

[Bernard]

There is no greater thread to this planet and humanity as the out-of-control overpopulation that's going on, and there's no greater destroyer to wealth, not only money, but also disposible time, than children. I decided that the moment I could think logically.

[wenchsenior]

Controversial it seems.. but [some] big families are great fun [while others exponentially increase interpersonal conflicts and stress]. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

FTFY

[Kris]

Purely anecdotal, obviously, but:

My ex and I had friends who had three boys and decided to go for a fourth child. “Maybe it will be a girl!”

Nine months later: the baby. It was a boy. We went to the hospital to see them the day after the birth.

I have never seen two people look more beaten down. Not just tired. More like... shell shocked. They both looked like zombies. She was holding the baby to her breast with a completely blank, vacant expression on her face.

Never have I seen a more blatant example of two people looking like they just realized they had made a huge mistake.

Their lives did not get a lot easier after that.

My ex and I divorced about a year later, so I couldn’t tell you what became of them (they were his friends to begin with) but I wouldn’t be surprised if they were divorced by now.

[OtherJen]

Controversial it seems.. but [some] big families are great fun [while others exponentially increase interpersonal conflicts and stress]. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

FTFY

This. My parents are both from large families. Both have some fucked up dynamics. Mom's younger brother hasn't spoken voluntarily to one of the older sisters in at least a decade for reasons that now only he knows (the sister has dementia). My dad would be perfectly happy never to speak to or see one of his brothers (a narcissist) ever again. On the other hand, Dad speaks to his sisters fairly regularly, and Mom would count her older brother and another older sister as her best friends. Relationships with siblings are so variable and unpredictable.

OP: postpone the surgery and take more time. The decision may become clearer as your existing kids get older.

[marty998]

You don't have to decide once and for all; you can just decide "not now," and see whether you later decide "now's the time for another."

I'll cast another vote for more. I kind of regret not having had an eighth. I'm not convinced by the environmental argument. IME the total consumption of resources isn't reduced, it's just concentrated in fewer kids. My seven kids camping in one van doesn't hurt the planet as much as one kid flying to a vacation in Europe.

This is incredibly shortsighted thinking sorry. Your seven kids will one day need seven houses, have seven cars, have seven families of their own, buy seven lots of iCrap, use 7 times the electricity and water etc etc as that one kid in the other family.

You don't think that is a problem if everyone in the world has 7 (or 8) kids?

[Kris]

You don't have to decide once and for all; you can just decide "not now," and see whether you later decide "now's the time for another."

I'll cast another vote for more. I kind of regret not having had an eighth. I'm not convinced by the environmental argument. IME the total consumption of resources isn't reduced, it's just concentrated in fewer kids. My seven kids camping in one van doesn't hurt the planet as much as one kid flying to a vacation in Europe.

This is incredibly shortsighted thinking sorry. Your seven kids will one day need seven houses, have seven cars, have seven families of their own, buy seven lots of iCrap, use 7 times the electricity and water etc etc as that one kid in the other family.

You don't think that is a problem if everyone in the world has 7 (or 8) kids?

+1. Good lord, those are some pretty bad math skills for someone on a financial frugality/badassery forum.

[ysette9]

Years ago my husband crudely remarked that he thought smart people didn’t have as many kids as stupid people and that smart people should have more,

[Kris]

Years ago my husband crudely remarked that he thought smart people didn’t have as many kids as stupid people and that smart people should have more,

Ha — I have been told that many times in my life when I’ve said to people I didn’t plan on having kids.

So weird.

[NonprofitER]

Its such a personal decision.

My only advice is try to wrestle with/parse the difference between wanting another child and having a strong sense of nostalgia or sentimentality about your kids getting older (or 'never' having a 6 month, or 1 year old, or whatever again). 

Imagine your life with 4 (the realities, the daily routines, logistics, the time when they are all barfing at once, etc.) rather than think about the abstract tiny fingers and toes.  4 bathtimes, bedtimes, 4 rounds of teenagers, etc.  If the daily picture with ups and downs is appealing, I think that helps.

For us, realizing the pull to have another was actually a sense of nostalgia/ sadness about our daughter getting older helped us come to terms with stopping.   

[AMandM]

This is incredibly shortsighted thinking sorry. Your seven kids will one day need seven houses, have seven cars, have seven families of their own, buy seven lots of iCrap, use 7 times the electricity and water etc etc as that one kid in the other family.

You don't think that is a problem if everyone in the world has 7 (or 8) kids?

Well, in the first place, I think how much they'll be producing is more significant for the well-being of future generations than how much they'll be consuming.  Secondly, I don't agree they will consume seven times as much as the one kid. In my experience, kids from large families grow up habituated to a much lower-consumption lifestyle than average and maintain that as adults. It's certainly been true of my adult kids.

But even if they do, no, I don't think it's a problem.  If the earth can support a finite number of human beings, I don't see any reason why that number should be reached later rather than sooner.

[Juslookin]

Does you wife really want another or is your impending snip snip appointment making her feel like she is giving up the option to have another and she just isn’t ready to make that decision. That was the situation I was in, we delayed the appointment for another year and by then everybody was positive that we didn’t want more children.  No harm, no foul, just a little longer to get used to the idea.

Good luck.

[Michael in ABQ]

We had a lot of kids (6) so we get a lot of comments when we're out and about. I can't tell you how many times some older couple has come up to us and said "we had X number of kids too" or, "we wish we'd been able to have more". I've yet to have someone come up to us and say "I really wish we'd stopped at X number of kids". Now that could be that most people aren't that rude, but I think there are far more people out there who wish they'd had more kids than regret they had as many kids as they did.

I just spent the last hour or so talking to my kids via Skype since I haven't been able to see them in person for a couple of months. It just puts a big smile on my face to see all of them and get to talk to them. Each one is a totally unique individual - none of their personalities are alike even though there are many obvious physical similarities.

My wife and I have discussed holding off for a while and maybe we're finished after six. But regardless of our decision we won't be sterilizing ourselves. If that means potentially having another baby in our 40s then we'll love them just as much as the ones we had in our 20s and 30s.

[ysette9]

How many people are actually going to come out and say they regret having their kids though? Even if you actually feel that way, and likely feelings are much more complex than that, society isn’t going to look favorably on people who say that. So I think there is a real sampling bias at work.

We have three kids and while I love them all, I think three is too many. Two was probably the perfect number for us. I can say that abstractly but I’m never going to come out and say that I wished our #3 didn’t exist, because there is a big difference between preferences and a real live little human who is now part of our lives.

[Fuzz]

I don't think this is a question where the forum's collective experience offers much to your decision.

I would not make this decision based on whether or not you have to get another vehicle to transport the fourth (my guess is you're mostly offering that as an example of how the logistics get more complicated, and not as a real reason one way or the other).

As far as the overpopulation argument goes, I wouldn't let that sway your decision either. The idea that our individual choices as consumers (buy this to save the planet) or (don't procreate to save the planet) are the most important question is false.  Better policies at the state and national level is the real game. Maybe you raising an empathetic child makes the difference. Anyway, that's a huge detour from your question.

[mastrr]

God has given you the wonderful gift to produce life and procreating is the point of sex within marriage. By getting "snipped" you are essentially altering your body physically to make yourself a non-male and goes against His intention.

Please don't let the anti-life culture that we have seep in to your decisions.  Nothing is more important than raising children and nurture them into quality individuals with a good moral compass.

It comes down to morality and search within your soul and ask yourself what is right.

[ysette9]

God has given you the wonderful gift to produce life and procreating is the point of sex within marriage. By getting "snipped" you are essentially altering your body physically to make yourself a non-male and goes against His intention.

Please don't let the anti-life culture that we have seep in to your decisions.  Nothing is more important than raising children and nurture them into quality individuals with a good moral compass.

It comes down to morality and search within your soul and ask yourself what is right.

Oh heavens, you must be kidding. There is so much wrong and offensive about this I hardly know where to begin.

I’ll just state this: those of us who have kids we love and want to raise them into quality individuals know that the most important thing we can give them is our time and attention. That is unquestionably limited, so the best we can do for them is to ensure we have enough time per kid by Not Having Too Many Kids (the exact number being different for different individuals.

(P.s. you need to brush up on your biology. The point of sex in humans is far from reproduction as #1. If it were it wouldn’t be hard to determine when a woman is fertile, couples wouldn’t have sex in any time other than her fertile window, people past menopause wouldn’t have sex lives, and so much more.)

[OtherJen]

God has given you the wonderful gift to produce life and procreating is the point of sex within marriage. By getting "snipped" you are essentially altering your body physically to make yourself a non-male and goes against His intention.

Please don't let the anti-life culture that we have seep in to your decisions.  Nothing is more important than raising children and nurture them into quality individuals with a good moral compass.

It comes down to morality and search within your soul and ask yourself what is right.

You are entitled to your personal beliefs but this is not a religious forum. There are many things more important than being guilted into having children one does not want. I would think someone who claims to be pro-life would have a vested interest in making sure that every child was truly wanted.

[mastrr]

Oh heavens, you must be kidding. There is so much wrong and offensive about this I hardly know where to begin.

I’ll just state this: those of us who have kids we love and want to raise them into quality individuals know that the most important thing we can give them is our time and attention. That is unquestionably limited, so the best we can do for them is to ensure we have enough time per kid by Not Having Too Many Kids (the exact number being different for different individuals.

(P.s. you need to brush up on your biology. The point of sex in humans is far from reproduction as #1. If it were it wouldn’t be hard to determine when a woman is fertile, couples wouldn’t have sex in any time other than her fertile window, people past menopause wouldn’t have sex lives, and so much more.)

I meant procreating is the main point but not the only.

[mastrr]

You are entitled to your personal beliefs but this is not a religious forum. There are many things more important than being guilted into having children one does not want. I would think someone who claims to be pro-life would have a vested interest in making sure that every child was truly wanted.

It's not about guilt but aligning our ourselves towards what is right and is something for OP to determine.

[ysette9]

Oh heavens, you must be kidding. There is so much wrong and offensive about this I hardly know where to begin.

I’ll just state this: those of us who have kids we love and want to raise them into quality individuals know that the most important thing we can give them is our time and attention. That is unquestionably limited, so the best we can do for them is to ensure we have enough time per kid by Not Having Too Many Kids (the exact number being different for different individuals.

(P.s. you need to brush up on your biology. The point of sex in humans is far from reproduction as #1. If it were it wouldn’t be hard to determine when a woman is fertile, couples wouldn’t have sex in any time other than her fertile window, people past menopause wouldn’t have sex lives, and so much more.)

I meant procreating is the main point but not the only.

And my point is that it actually is not the main point. If it were then women would have screaming loud signals when we are fertile, like monkeys whose genitals turn another color when in heat, instead of being so subtle it takes months to learn how to read the tea leaves.

I recommend the book Why Sex Is Fun by Jared Diamond, same author of Guns, Germs, and Steel for an eye-opening comparions of how human sexuality and reproduction compares to the rest of our primate relatives. I found it fascinating.

[Pigeon]

Controversial it seems.. but [some] big families are great fun [while others exponentially increase interpersonal conflicts and stress]. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

FTFY

Dh and I both come from large families.  We did not come from dysfunctional families. 

None of the siblings on either side are particularly close.  We don't hate each other, but we don't particularly like each other.  Those of us who live in the same town probably see each other two or three times a year, but we don't call frequently or even send birthday cards.  I'm probably a little closer to my siblings--dh will go years without seeing his brothers.  (His parents had 5 boys, his mom never got the daughter she wanted).

Taking care of elderly parents was, in fact, much more difficult because of the large families.  There were lots of opinions about how things should be done, with very little actual help about doing any of it.  When dh's elderly mother's house flooded and needed to essentially be rebuilt and then sold, his brothers, who don't live in town and didn't lift a finger were full of criticism, second guessing dh at every step.  When end of life decisions had to be made, he had one brother who insisted that every life-prolonging measure be taken, despite his parents' written wishes to the contrary and the fact that it did nothing but make them endure prolonged suffering in a state I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

[FrenchToast]

Any disagreements between you and your partner on when to stop? Currently a struggle, it's tough. I want one more, they do not at least not now.

[slappy]

How many people are actually going to come out and say they regret having their kids though? Even if you actually feel that way, and likely feelings are much more complex than that, society isn’t going to look favorably on people who say that. So I think there is a real sampling bias at work.

We have three kids and while I love them all, I think three is too many. Two was probably the perfect number for us. I can say that abstractly but I’m never going to come out and say that I wished our #3 didn’t exist, because there is a big difference between preferences and a real live little human who is now part of our lives.

There was a whole thread on here about this topic  in the past. My cousin actually told me she regrets having her kids. She didn't really want kids. Her husband did, and as a faithful (religious) woman, she had two kids for him. Then he cheated on her and divorced her. She said she would have been quite happy to be an aunt and never a parent.

I can totally relate to you on the three kids. I have three myself, and they are young. It's a bit of a shitshow in my house most days, and so loud. I think two kids would be so much easier. But of course, all of my kids are amazing and I could never cut one of them out or wish them away. However, I still have so much guilt just for thinking that two is the best number. My kids really are amazing, but they are still kids. And kids are loud and crazy and snotty. (Snotty as in boogers, not snotty as in rude.)

[Sibley]

Controversial it seems.. but [some] big families are great fun [while others exponentially increase interpersonal conflicts and stress]. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

FTFY

Dh and I both come from large families.  We did not come from dysfunctional families. 

None of the siblings on either side are particularly close.  We don't hate each other, but we don't particularly like each other.  Those of us who live in the same town probably see each other two or three times a year, but we don't call frequently or even send birthday cards.  I'm probably a little closer to my siblings--dh will go years without seeing his brothers.  (His parents had 5 boys, his mom never got the daughter she wanted).

Taking care of elderly parents was, in fact, much more difficult because of the large families.  There were lots of opinions about how things should be done, with very little actual help about doing any of it.  When dh's elderly mother's house flooded and needed to essentially be rebuilt and then sold, his brothers, who don't live in town and didn't lift a finger were full of criticism, second guessing dh at every step.  When end of life decisions had to be made, he had one brother who insisted that every life-prolonging measure be taken, despite his parents' written wishes to the contrary and the fact that it did nothing but make them endure prolonged suffering in a state I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I disagree that neither of you came from dysfunctional families. Dysfunction comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

[ysette9]

I can relate on the shitshow comment. There is so much noise and the colds are absolutely non stop.

[Car Jack]

I hated being pregnant. I hated the infant stage, I hated the toddler stage and the preschool age was so hard you could not pay me all of the money in the world to do that again.

Now that dd is 9 she is fun, and I am flat out glad I had her but one and done.

Enjoy the 4 years until she blooms into a zombie monster.

No, I'm not kidding.

[lampstache]

Our family dynamics are just like yours. 33 & 30 with three daughters 6, 4, and 2. We wrestled with having another or not and wouldn't you know it we got pregnant again. I was excited and my wife was in tears. She's doing much better now and we're due in March with our 4th.

Life is a bit of a crazy shit show and is definitely tough at times, but we love these girls with everything we've got. We're excited for #4 and are working out the logistics of what a 4th means when it comes to housing, vehicles, work schedules, etc and it's a bit daunting looking at how much longer we'll be paying for daycare and diapers. Really makes us think more consciously about our buying decisions with what's coming.

Hard to say what's best for you, but it will work out whether you stay as a family of 5 or you do expand to 6. Focus on making the best decision for you and maybe push back that appointment a few more months just to be sure! Good luck!

[Pigeon]

Controversial it seems.. but [some] big families are great fun [while others exponentially increase interpersonal conflicts and stress]. For your Children it's one more "best friend" in their lives, and one more to share looking after you and your wife when you get older.

FTFY

Dh and I both come from large families.  We did not come from dysfunctional families. 

None of the siblings on either side are particularly close.  We don't hate each other, but we don't particularly like each other.  Those of us who live in the same town probably see each other two or three times a year, but we don't call frequently or even send birthday cards.  I'm probably a little closer to my siblings--dh will go years without seeing his brothers.  (His parents had 5 boys, his mom never got the daughter she wanted).

Taking care of elderly parents was, in fact, much more difficult because of the large families.  There were lots of opinions about how things should be done, with very little actual help about doing any of it.  When dh's elderly mother's house flooded and needed to essentially be rebuilt and then sold, his brothers, who don't live in town and didn't lift a finger were full of criticism, second guessing dh at every step.  When end of life decisions had to be made, he had one brother who insisted that every life-prolonging measure be taken, despite his parents' written wishes to the contrary and the fact that it did nothing but make them endure prolonged suffering in a state I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I disagree that neither of you came from dysfunctional families. Dysfunction comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

Well, we both came from loving two parent, comfortably middle class families, no abuse of any kind.  All of the adult children are healthy, self supporting professionals in happy marriages.  The adult kids don't have much in common or especially like each other.  I think by reasonable standards, nobody is particularly dysfunctional.  There's no real bickering or fighting other than the sniping about the parental care at the end.  There are some very different value systems based largely on religion.

In my experience, people who decide to have a brood of kids tend to have rose colored glasses about how it  plays out.

[TVRodriguez]

I’ll never forget a woman who presented at a conference and said having a 4th child was her worst mistake. A month after, a colleague who had a fourth child, that he didn’t want, left his wife. Do with that what you will.

Tbh, as the fourth child in my family, I LOL'ed at that comment.

DH & I are both from 4 child families, and we have 3 kids ourselves.  We love it, and for a while we both wanted more, but we started later and in the end, I'm glad we stopped at 3.

OP, don't think of the baby.  Babies are cheap & easy (relatively speaking).  Think of the 5 year old, the 9 year old, the teenager, the young adult.

[BostonBrit]

I believe that at times this forum cannot be the most balanced when it comes to interpersonal skills. I see a lot of black or white, very little grey and a heavy focus on the best mathematical outcome and sometimes less on the social. My view is that EQ can sometimes be missing within the cohort.

This is my opinion, and whilst I lean on this site and think about "what I want to teach my kid about money", I think its important to think just as much about "what i want to teach my kid about being a brother or sister" and rarely is this discussed; that's natural as its a predominantly financially focuses forum. This topic will mean different things to different people on this forum and will likely be shaped by their experiences and/or current position.

That's fine, but as others have suggested its a very personal matter.

On the whole, its easy to agree with the math behind "if you have xyz kids it means it puts pressure on the planet etc". Yeah that's true but each one of has an impact on the planet and society; how great that impact can be debated but there are many who have an incredibly positive impact on the world.

Just to throw out one or two example or two of 3rd child plus kids who had somewhat of a positive impact on the planet and society:

Alexander Fleming, Marie Curie, Mohatma Gandhi, Helen Keller, Charles Darwin, Johannes Gutenberg

The counter being that I'm sure you could draw up a counter productive group of 3rd+ children.

[Blonde Lawyer]

I have a friend whose wife just loved being pregnant.  They didn't want more kids though.  She decided to be a surrogate to a couple that could not have children.  She carried an embryo for them.  I'm clarifying that she carried an embryo because some people confuse surrogacy and adoption. The kid was not biologically my friend's or his wife's.  If your wife just really wants to be pregnant again, that's something she could consider.

[nancyfrank232]

One and done. Kids are a PITA

Best way to fight climate change? Stop having kids

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/12/want-to-fight-climate-change-have-fewer-children