Author Topic: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early  (Read 3552 times)

meerkat

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Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« on: March 03, 2020, 12:48:10 PM »
For those who have one spouse working and one spouse that is not working and not planning on returning to work ever, was there a specific goal or benchmark your household had to reach first? I'm curious to hear how other people have arrived at that point. We know we want my spouse to retire before I do, but I'd like to try to figure out some more concrete "once X and Y occur, then it's a viable idea".

seemsright

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2020, 01:18:08 PM »
I am retired. Hubby is still working. Once our investments were making what my salary was I bailed.

We ran some numbers and with me working with a kid in daycare it was going to cost us $3,500 a year for me to continue with my career. It flat out was not worth the stress. So I bailed and have never looked back.

Hubby loves telling people I am retired.

Cranky

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2020, 01:42:46 PM »
I am not working and dh has maybe 2 years (we are not RE).

I went back to work to pay the kids’ college tuition and when that was done I just chucked it all into an investment account, not that I made very much (I had a mostly PT teaching position.) So the money wasn’t huge but I really, really liked my job. And then shit went down at school and I quit about 2 years earlier than I planned.

I could have looked for a new PT job, but I had knee surgery instead. LOL

It’s easier for dh to not need to work around my schedule, and I’m more available for grandkid duty.

bogart

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2020, 02:36:24 PM »
My DH retired the day he qualified for full pension benefits.  Honestly, having him manage the household and the kid are great, but I wish he'd kept a foot in the workforce (part time work, consulting).  Being the only breadwinner (other than his pension, which is modest, and our investments, which I am building) is a big responsibility.

Metalcat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2020, 03:45:54 PM »
I retired from my profession and DH will continue to work until he is eligible for his full pension.

I needed to work until my school debt was paid off, because he couldn't support both our expenses and my several thousand a month payments, but once that was gone, he pushed me to see all work as optional.

I have health issues and my job was making them worse, but for someone else they might be burnt out or have some other reason to retire.

I think if the move suits your collective happiness, then that's the right time to retire, not based on some arbitrary number.

I'm still not fully retired from my job yet, but I gave my notice and am barely working, and DH is loving our new happier and healthier collective lifestyle. It's especially worked out as he's been working overtime for months on a major deliverable, so me having zero work stress of my own helps balance that out.

In some couples one partner might resent the other not working while they still work full time, so those people may need to establish rational financial goals that make sure that each partner feels they've contributed equitably, but for others those numbers may not matter and it may be that neither would be comfortable with one partner not working, regardless of how much each makes.

So what's right for one couple is unique to that couple.

Lady SA

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2020, 04:46:01 PM »
I will be "retiring" whenever our first child makes their appearance--the plan is for me to become a sahm when the time comes. But obviously it's hard to nail down timelines for these kinds of things... Anyway, my DH would continue to work until we hit FI.

We have two criteria for me "retiring"/stepping back from the workforce:
1) the arrival of a kid and
2) reaching at least 50% of our FI number in investments

Reaching 50% of our FI number is an important milestone for us because that's the point where our stash will grow to our FI number naturally within 10 years (rule of 7). The timeline will actually be shorter than that because with DH working, we will add a bit to the stash every month. But waiting until we are at least 50% to FI means DH will have the ability to leave the workforce less than a decade after I do. This also means we will get health insurance for a few extra years as well.

elaine amj

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2020, 08:20:49 PM »
I wanted us both to FIRE at the same time. And saved and projected our numbers based on that. When we hit our number plus a safety margin, I FIREd. There were some reasons to keep going but I absolutely dreaded the thought so decided it was time. DH could FIRE too but he doesn't want to yet. He still has some career goals to accomplish. Whenever he is ready, he will FIRE since our number includes the both of us.

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2sk22

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2020, 05:49:21 AM »
It has been a relatively easy decision in my household. I am planning to retire this year while my wife plans to work until full retirement age.

I make a great salary but my wife's salary is even higher and we have always gotten health insurance through her company. Since I work in software, I am able to entirely work from home and I get a lot of flexibility in my work hours.

I have always been responsible for grocery shopping, picking up kids from school, kids doctors appointments etc - so nothing will change. Neither my wife nor I are much into traveling so there is no incompatibility in that regard.

So in a nutshell, almost nothing will change if I retire except that I won't be working :-)

Laura33

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2020, 01:48:05 PM »
I don't know that you can identify one specific benchmark that is good for all.  I think the general goal would be to identify both parties' desired FIRE date, and then the first one doesn't retire unless/until your finances are such that the second one will be able to retire by their desired FIRE date.  So if my DH wants to work "forever," then I'd be fine quitting whenever I want to; OTOH, if my DH is miserable and wants to quit in five years, it's not fair of me to quit now if it makes him keep working for another 10 years.

But personally, I'd also consider the worst-case scenario.  The nice thing about dual incomes is it provides a nice safety net if one partner loses a job or lands in a situation that suddenly becomes untenable and feels like they're stuck because the family "needs" the job.  So for me, I wouldn't want to quit until our finances were at the point that we could at least cover a tolerable-if-bare-bones lifestyle if we both quit or lost jobs.  But YMMV, of course; that decision depends very much on your risk tolerance and level of desperation to leave the job (mine:  low and low).

ixtap

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2020, 01:57:20 PM »
My job was very stressful and DH was in such much pain that he had to choose between driving to work and actually working, he couldn't do both. But he couldn't do anything fun, either, so he wanted to work. We moved close to his work and I ramped up my volunteer activities. This week, that is proving as stressful as work ever was, but without any money :(

ChpBstrd

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2020, 03:17:59 PM »
It was more of a mental health move when my spouse quit an abusive work environment. It helps to be worth a few hundred grand, and to have the option. We think with sadness about coworkers with SUV leases, giant houses, private school tuition, etc. who must grin and bear it.

meerkat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2020, 05:40:11 PM »
Thank you everyone. And if anyone else wants to chime in but hasn't yet, please do.

Our situation is that we're dual income, Mr. Meer makes more than I do by a bit, and we have a special needs kid so we're chasing around for extra appointments. I've often thought how much easier our lives would be if we had a stay at home spouse, Mr. Meer hates his job and has been in the workforce years longer than I have.

BUT. We spend what my salary is. I wouldn't be adding any more to our retirement savings so that didn't seem like a great idea. Our "desired" FIRE date is yesterday but we'd run out of money eventually so long term that plan doesn't really work. We didn't have any of the other handy benchmarks others have (work pension kicking in, daycare outweighing a salary) but I knew there had to be other triggers out there for other people, other situations.

Reaching 50% of our FI number is an important milestone for us because that's the point where our stash will grow to our FI number naturally within 10 years (rule of 7).

This actually seems like it could potentially be a good fit for us except it's us adding money to our retirement accounts that's causing a lot of the growth over the past couple years, they haven't bulked up enough to be anywhere near "earning" an income on their own while one of us stays home. There's also limited job opportunities in our area so I can't assume I'll keep going up the career ladder with bigger paychecks in the future, it's more likely that I'll get to a certain level and be capped out so having that second paycheck is essential right now unfortunately. I was just trying to feel out what the options could potentially look like between "Need two paychecks now" and "Both retiring at the same time in a decade". If I had some goal like me having good health insurance and a stable job and our investments being over $X then that at least seems like a target that will be Y time frame in the future which feels more concrete than ".... eventually?"

I'm sleepy and going to bed shortly, hopefully this made sense.

ixtap

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2020, 05:44:21 PM »
Since you are asking on MMM...What can you do to decrease spending? That is the factor that will help your other goals meet together.

Metalcat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2020, 03:19:16 AM »
Does he have to quit work altogether, forever?

I was the much, much higher earning spouse, and I'll never again bring in a huge salary, but even a very small income from part time work can have a huge impact on savings.

It's doesn't have to be all or nothing.

slappy

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2020, 07:48:28 AM »
What Malkynn said. If he hates his job, along with needing more flexibility, there are many options other than just quitting his job and staying home. Like someone else said, decrease expenses, increase income to the extent that you can. It might look like a side hustle or a part time gig for DH. My DH is a SAHD so I can definitely relate to the spending=my salary situation, except that we were still able to save a little on my salary. I was able to work OT as needed as well. Its not MMM ideal, but it worked for us for a couple of years until I could work myself into a higher paying role.

StarBright

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2020, 08:03:35 AM »
Following because this is something that we are struggling with right now. Husband doesn't want to ever retire and I want out of the workforce now. We see-saw back and forth a lot. Am very interested in reading what others have to say.

Metalcat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2020, 08:06:14 AM »
Following because this is something that we are struggling with right now. Husband doesn't want to ever retire and I want out of the workforce now. We see-saw back and forth a lot. Am very interested in reading what others have to say.

What's your rationale for continuing to work?

meerkat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2020, 08:19:11 AM »
Since you are asking on MMM...What can you do to decrease spending? That is the factor that will help your other goals meet together.

That's already about as slim as it can get without sacrificing quality of life (no vacations for example). Cutting day care would be nice but I think last time I looked at it the additional costs for health care roughly cancel that out.

Does he have to quit work altogether, forever?

I guess not but I don't know what part time work would look like. I don't see him doing well in customer service type roles so that rules out a lot of retail. He doesn't have the personality for starting his own business (neither do I honestly). With a small child at home he'd be restricted to only working during school hours and jobs like that tend to be in high demand and with low pay.

What Malkynn said. If he hates his job, along with needing more flexibility, there are many options other than just quitting his job and staying home. Like someone else said, decrease expenses, increase income to the extent that you can. It might look like a side hustle or a part time gig for DH. My DH is a SAHD so I can definitely relate to the spending=my salary situation, except that we were still able to save a little on my salary. I was able to work OT as needed as well. Its not MMM ideal, but it worked for us for a couple of years until I could work myself into a higher paying role.

OT is not an option for me. I've been casually job hunting for a couple years and there's not many jobs that pay more than mine in my area for my skill set. My goals are to find something that pays more and has good health insurance but I suspect I'll have to settle for pays the same and has the chance for advancement. There's not really a chance for advancement at my current company, people tend to stick around for a loooong time.

StarBright

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2020, 08:21:50 AM »
Following because this is something that we are struggling with right now. Husband doesn't want to ever retire and I want out of the workforce now. We see-saw back and forth a lot. Am very interested in reading what others have to say.

What's your rationale for continuing to work?

I make significantly more money. He is a state employee and makes a decent salary but his take home pay isn't great and would be worse if I quit my job and went on his insurance (It would be a wash with buying on the exchange at full price). We could live on his salary but it would be tight. He is also generally not into the early retirement idea (both of his parents still work jobs they love in their 70s).  I have a really strong need for safety and stability.

Metalcat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2020, 09:03:27 AM »
Following because this is something that we are struggling with right now. Husband doesn't want to ever retire and I want out of the workforce now. We see-saw back and forth a lot. Am very interested in reading what others have to say.

What's your rationale for continuing to work?

I make significantly more money. He is a state employee and makes a decent salary but his take home pay isn't great and would be worse if I quit my job and went on his insurance (It would be a wash with buying on the exchange at full price). We could live on his salary but it would be tight. He is also generally not into the early retirement idea (both of his parents still work jobs they love in their 70s).  I have a really strong need for safety and stability.

Okay, perhaps a better question would be, what are you see-sawing about?

Metalcat

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2020, 09:10:30 AM »
Does he have to quit work altogether, forever?

I guess not but I don't know what part time work would look like. I don't see him doing well in customer service type roles so that rules out a lot of retail. He doesn't have the personality for starting his own business (neither do I honestly). With a small child at home he'd be restricted to only working during school hours and jobs like that tend to be in high demand and with low pay.

K...but if the option is that he do absolutely no work and you guys save zero and become completely dependent on your income, therefore putting you at huge risk if anything happens to you, then it might be worth it to think creatively about options.

He'll have all the time in the world to look at possibilities, do some retraining if needed, build a network, etc.

Developing opportunities for interesting work is a lot easier when you have a lot of free time and a flexible timeline. It's not like he would need to urgently find a part time job ASAP.

I say this as someone who is doing *exactly* this at the moment.

Also, when budgets are tight, even low pay can be a huge bonus. Even an extra 20K a year is massive for a budget that's close to the edge.

He's probably burnt out and probably needs to some space to not think about work for a bit, but don't just assume that it's all or nothing on the work front, or that there are very limited options.

Quite the opposite, when someone has time and energy on their side, the possibilities are endless.

historienne

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2020, 09:15:11 AM »
What does your husband do now?  Is it the kind of thing that lends itself at all to part-time consulting, etc?

For us, the marker is when I get tenure, which will provide us with long-term financial stability.  I have no desire to stop working anytime soon.  I'm not sure yet if my husband will choose to RE right then or not, but it will be his choice.  He may try to go down to part time.  But that's obviously a very specific situation. 

Sugaree

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2020, 09:25:44 AM »
Unfortunately, it looks like we're going to be unintentionally in that position.  My husband is likely to physically be unable to work going forward.  It sucks, but it is what it is.  He'll be providing after school/summer care and hopefully he'll qualify for SSDI, but we'll be okay without it. 

rockstache

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2020, 12:19:28 PM »
This is an interesting conversation to me too.

Guy makes less than I do. His job is decent, but not his dream job. I have the opportunity for some significant advancement in the next couple of years. He has mentioned several times over the last months that he is unhappy leaving kid at daycare for as long as we do. Finally this week I said outright, "It sounds like you're thinking of becoming a stay at home dad. Is that true?" He admitted that it was on his radar as a possibility (which 1.5 years ago would have shocked the hell out of both of us, FWIW). His biggest concerns were: getting any kind of a break from kid during the day, and creating a routine that didn't spend a ton of money, but also didn't keep them cooped up in the house all day every day. I think we can solve the majority of those problems between the library and a gym membership that has childcare.

He's not ready to make any kind of leap yet, but it's a discussion. I'd say we're currently sitting at about ~50% of the way to FIRE, depending on how fat we want to be (and what the market is doing, ha). It would be really hard to give up that second income though, plus he has a pension, carries our insurance, and would eventually want to work again. But kid is only going to be this little once.

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2020, 12:41:01 AM »
Interesting thread. I don’t mind my job (Self-employed, realtor) and plan on working as long as I am physically and mentally able to. Wife on the other hand works in IT for a mega corp and finds it very stressful.

We paid off our mortgage and car leases this year and soon after my wife said she wanted to quit her job. Although I can’t blame her for wanting to quit but I don’t think we’re ready yet. My forecasted FI year is still 6 years away.  Either of our income will cover our expenses (excluding travel and non recurring large expenses eg large appliance purchase etc). Given that we are in a pandemic though, I think it is especially important to have more than one income stream at this time.

I’m hoping she can grind it out for another 4 years at least. If the time comes that she can’t bear it anymore (or gets laid off), then we will have to just bite the bullet then (and hope the real estate market cooperates).

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2020, 07:18:09 AM »
Also find this an interesting thread.  Partner recently moved across the country and I didn't follow (assumed work would return to full remote by now and I could work from where he is plus the partial remote means I can visit him a lot more and stay longer than if we weren't in a pandemic), but it's getting a little tiresome, I miss him, he loves his job but it's very stressful, mine has better hours but I don't enjoy it or many of the people I work with, etc.  I currently make more than him but in two years his salary should be more than what we currently make combined.  I'm about 50% to my own lean FIRE number, but he has more than that in SL debt (med school).  I am not comfortable considering this path until we are married (planning on early August, have a venue picked out, but he hasn't technically asked me yet).  But since I can see that date in the future, I've been thinking more about it.  It would also give us more flexibility in his job search and we are planning to follow the wedding quickly with a kid, so I could do the SAHP thing (although, I don't particularly want to do this full-time).  I also need to learn more about his SL debt situation - he's got a couple loan repayment programs going on with potential for more but still need to run the numbers.

DadJokes

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2020, 07:20:59 AM »
Very interesting reading in this thread. My wife and I will likely be in a similar scenario, as she generally enjoys her job, while I'd retire as soon as possible (not because I hate this job in particular, but because I can think of many other non-paying things to fill my time with). I haven't put too much thought into it, because it's at least several years down the road.

With planned annual expenses of $60k (overestimating to be conservative) and her income of ~$45k, we would theoretically need a stash of only $375k to cover the rest of our expenses. We're projected to have that much in 3.5 years. However, then she'd be forced to work until she reaches her full pension.

Alternatively, I could work until we are 100% FI, which would require $1.5m, which will take ~13 years. She might be ready to quit by then, but I doubt it. She really loves teaching, and unlike me, not working would not be good for her. She'd sit on the couch all day and watch television, if her summers are any indication.

So the ideal number is probably somewhere between 3.5 years and 13 years. To be cautious, I'd certainly rather push it closer to the 13 year mark. I'll probably reassess in 2030 or so. In that time, I'm sure we'll have a clearer picture of what our post-retirement goals are.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2020, 08:15:29 AM »
This is something my wife and I talk about a lot.

Early on in our relationship, she made about $20k more per year than I did.  That quickly changed when I started my own practice.  Now I basically work two jobs -- one as an attorney for the city, and also my private practice.

My annual income, if you include the value of the benefits I get, is probably around $150-175k, while my wife has taken a step back to three days a week and makes about $45k per year.  Part of me thinks I am working way more now and would thus be entitled to pull the plug earlier; the other part of me knows my wife has her hands full watching our little one on her "days off."

I really do oscillate between plans.  Sometimes I think it would be best to pick a date and have both of us attack that with vigorous zeal.  Other times I think perhaps CoastFIRE (i.e., saving a bunch, letting that balloon, and just earning enough to pay bills) is a better option. And even other times I calculate FIRE based on her income alone and what we would need invested to make up the difference.

Ultimately we have decided to do the following:

1. Set a FIRE/debt payoff goal of 01/01/2030.  This is about 9+ years.  This is doable based on current income.  Note that FIRE does not necessarily mean we will quit working.

2. Have $750k+ invested in index funds by this date.  This provides a form of "fuck you" that gives us flexibility, both as a couple and individually.

3. Hold enough real estate to cash flow $5,000 per month.  We are partnering up with another very similarly minded family, and we are going to structure this so that we contribute a little bit more capital and defer the day-to-day stuff to them.  Again, this cash flow gives us options.

4. All of the above gives us flexibility. My post history on here somewhat demonstrates that I am comically Type A, always seeking to do something new. I want to start a mediation company, a couple blogs, ultralearn something, etc.

Now, what will my spouse and I do?  I *think* she will want to continue to work part time, as will I. But we don't know.  I think the discussion needs to be had probably a couple times a year.

There really is no right answer to this except having an open, respectful dialogue with your spouse and make sure you are both on the same team. I would not be able to work the way I do if it weren't for my wife and how selfless she is with our son, so it would be silly of me to use my income as a cudgel to retire before she did unless she was *entirely* on board with it.

Just my two cents.

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2020, 08:31:05 AM »
My SO loves her job (museum world) and though it doesn't pay a lot, she may never retire. On the other hand, I make a lot more but can't wait to bail.

It's too early to decide for certain, but I'll probably keep working until the stache has enough to cover both of our expenses, then pull back to part-time work. I don't exactly love my job but it pays more than double SO's with better security and benefits, so I wouldn't feel right bailing too early and putting all the pressure on her as sole bread winner.

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2020, 09:14:59 AM »
We are planning to do this.  I really dislike my job and career field but I am still in it to get us to a goal of close to $1 million liquid not including a very small amount of home equity and a small portfolio of rental properties. My spouse always said he supported me but things he has said in casual conversations (e.g. kids needs more as they get older, you need a lot to retire early nowadays, etc) indicated he was not entirely comfortable with us going down to one income.  He also isnt the one who has been reading FIRE-related materials...it has always been me just telling what I have learned over the years). I think he was finally convinced when I plugged in the goal amt of almost $1 million into the financial calculator and showed him if we let it compound (he made me put in an annual return of only 4 % ...I used 6% at first) for 10 years until he plans to retire,  we will have more than enough. I think at that point he finally felt comfortable. He demeanor has changed.  I came up with that goal bc I also wanted to set us up to a point that if he also wants to retire early, we are close enough by that point that he could with some changes to our lifestyle.

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Re: Deciding when one half of a couple should retire early
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2020, 09:51:35 AM »
...
But personally, I'd also consider the worst-case scenario.  The nice thing about dual incomes is it provides a nice safety net if one partner loses a job or lands in a situation that suddenly becomes untenable and feels like they're stuck because the family "needs" the job.  So for me, I wouldn't want to quit until our finances were at the point that we could at least cover a tolerable-if-bare-bones lifestyle if we both quit or lost jobs. But YMMV, of course; that decision depends very much on your risk tolerance and level of desperation to leave the job (mine:  low and low).

This is similar to what I'm aiming for. A stache that can cover either my half of the joint bills, my bills and my adventures & hobbies, or that can cover all our joint bills and belt-tightened hobbies and fun money.

My spouse is happy to work indefinitely but I wouldn't feel right if that was a need rather than a choice.