Considering a move

[superstarburn]

How does one make a decision to start over in a new city?

Background:
I live in a picturesque small city. I moved here for college in 2007 and never left.

Reasons to stay:
- I am engaged in our local arts community
- Amazing outdoor recreation opportunities with no crowds.
- Local friends and connection; usually do something at least once per week.
- Easy life.. no crime. no traffic. low cost of living.

Reasons to leave:
- Arts community is aging and will not be here forever...
- Wanting to find a relationship - as a gay man it isn't easy in a small city.
- Be close to aging parents.

Finances / practicality:
- I am 36 with a NW of 850K.
- My savings rate today is pretty great at ~78%.
- The target city would raise expenses by about ~$1,200/mo between car insurance and rent.
- New savings rate would be ~65%
- My job technically doesn't allow full remote work, but exceptions have been made for 1-2 people in the past and I am confident something could be worked out.

What is driving me?
I feel I've explored what their is to be explored here. My life hasn't changed much in the last ~15 years and it's time for something new. I have long outgrown the company I work for and would have better prospects eventually.

What is holding me back?
Fears about loneliness and unhappiness. It will take years to get involved in a new arts community. I won't have solo hiking opportunities nearby anymore. I have anxiety and ADHD - living somewhere with fewer options and less "noise" is probably quite helpful.

How does one begin to even make such a big decision?

[Fru-Gal]

Speaking as someone who never left their hometown, I think all your pros and cons are compelling.

My suggestion, as someone who loves their town and is too much of a wimp to move somewhere else (unlike all my family, who all scattered far away), is this: Why not spend a month, 3 months, 6 months somewhere else? Why does it have to be a big move, given the pros on your list?

Obviously it would be different if you hated it there, but since you don’t, moving doesn’t have to be a permanent thing.

But again that’s my bias as someone afraid to move. Since my house is where I raised my kids, I feel like selling it would break my heart.

Also the arts thing: what if you were able to create a touring situation, so pop-ups where you have a presence outside your home town, or conversely, a festival that pulls in other artists.

[reeshau]

My suggestion, as someone who loves their town and is too much of a wimp to move somewhere else (unlike all my family, who all scattered far away), is this: Why not spend a month, 3 months, 6 months somewhere else? Why does it have to be a big move, given the pros on your list?

Definitely--go try it out.  Go to the big city during an art fair, or Pride Week.  You should also see the city at its worst (weather, activity gap, etc.) But given that your cons are really fear of the unknown, see it at its best, first.

[tweezers]

Your decreased savings rate is not substantial (78% to 65%) and should not be the driver for you staying given the potential gains from leaving. 

I moved to the southern US in my 20s for grad school (from Canada), and found that once you make a big move, it's easier to make the next one if your new place isn't ideal.  You new location doesn't have to be forever and going into it knowing that you can try somewhere else if it doesn't work out can reduce the pressure of finding the perfect new place.  It will be difficult not comparing everything to your old home, but looking at the differences as an opportunity and adventure will help alleviate that.  I'm not a super outgoing, adventurous person, but my experience is that being new to a place can be freeing if you can approach it with an open mind.  Good luck!

[FINate]

Getting approved for remote work would enable exploring other cities with almost no risk. Keep your current housing while spending a month or so at a time in other places. This is really the best way to get a feel for real day-to-day living. If you really like a city, plan your relocation. Otherwise try another city. If nothing pans out you can always just go back to your current arrangement,

[the lorax]

I've done two big shifts. The first was moving from one of the UK to another for my PhD program - that was probably made easier by having a small network of new people built in via the PhD program. For that I based the choice of city on the research being undertaken and ability to access the outdoors. Second shift was to the other side of the planet post-PhD. That time I moved with my partner. We actually moved out here for a one year contract with just a couple of suitcases each. We were originally thinking we'd do a ton of outdoors stuff and then return to the Uk but that was 20 years ago ;)

For me, the ability to try it out for a year was really helpful. We didn't own a house or anything before we moved which made it easier. I'd recommend visiting a shortlist of places and then trial the top candidate or two from those visits if you are allowed to work remotely - 6 months would give you a good feel for a place and whether it is easy to join social communities. Some places are more inclined to let new people join their social activities - often places with international companies based there and a decent proportion of immigrants in my experience. There's a thread somewhere on the forum with a bunch of recommendations based on size of city, weather, employment prospects and whether they are more liberal/conservative.

 

[markum9]

My vote is go for it!  People's biggest regrets are typically the things that they DIDN'T do, the risks they DIDN'T take, etc.

I would re-frame it as not as big of a decision, and that it's reversible (especially if you can negotiate remote work).  Set a timeframe.  If you try it for a year (as an example) and find it isn't the right situation, can't you always move back with the knowledge that your hometown is the right place for you?  That may help your mentality long-term, not feeling like you are missing something out there.  It's not an "if I move I can never come back" situation, which is what we can sometimes delude ourselves into feeling.

[GuitarStv]

I'd give it a shot.  Just find a place that seems cool and rent there for a while.  Worst case scenario you don't like it and move back.

[lifeandlimb]

I have moved a few times. I discovered that, even as an introvert, I am much more open to experiences, exploratory, friendly, and energized in the first year after I move somewhere. So you might surprise yourself with how quickly you end up integrating into a new community or meeting new friends after you move.

You asked how, so, some steps:
- Make a list of the things that are most important to you (arts community, liberal city, hiking within 20 min drive). Then RANK their importance from most to least
- Ask some friends (or the internet) for cities that fit at least some of these requirements. They don't have to fit all requirements.
- Go do 1-4 weeks remote work Airbnbing in that area. Get to know the neighborhoods
- When you visit, hit up your social media or friend networks asking if you know anyone who lives there. They can show you around, make recommendations, get a meal with you
- If you liked it, you can begin the moving process with work and packing up your stuff
- For big cities, I usually recommend finding temporary housing (monthly rentals or Airbnb) while you search for a long-term rental. Viewing long-term rentals in person can lower your chance of getting cheated.

Don't worry. Worst worst case, if you don't like it after a couple years, just move back to where you came from.
It sounds like you're due for a change. Time to take a big breath and jump in!

[reeshau]

- Go do 1-4 weeks remote work Airbnbing in that area. Get to know the neighborhoods

While this crowd wouldn't likely think of using a hotel for this, (maybe an extended stay?) another benefit of an AirBnB is to be in a residential neighborhood, rather than a business or commercial district.  You're not just looking for amenities, but also public transportation, (available?  dependable?  load at rush hour?) night noise, grocery location, kids vs. quiet, etc.

Best move we did when looking at Dublin was to skip the suggested city center (centre ;)  ) hotels and get airbnbs in neighborhoods that our internet research said would be potential spots.  I faux commuted to get a feel for that; we grocery shopped, and chatted with neighbors about the area.  Worth its weight in gold, in terms of information on actual lifestyle.

[superstarburn]

Thank you for the kind replies. I've decided to give it a try for one year. I am pretty scared to leave my beautiful city but I decided to try one year in the big city where my parents live. I have gotten verbal confirmation of an exemption to work remote and will be breaking my lease today.

I am coming from a quiet 2 bedroom apartment with a garage and central AC in a city of 30,000 people to the big city, and am down to two options for rent. Costs included estimated utilities + insurance. Age is 36, NW is up to 940K since the original post.

Option 1: 6-plex 750sq ft one bedroom
1920s unit. I know someone who lives on the same street who likes it.
Yearly cost: $16,400
Estimated savings rate: 71%
Distance to dance / music classes: 25 min drive, 60 min public transit.
Walk-ability: Chain coffee shop in nearby grocery store. Many small restaurants. Six blocks from a major university.
Crime: one auto theft, shoplifting, one home burglary this year.

Option 2: Duplex 850sq ft two bedroom w\ partially finished basement (~1600 sq ft counting it)
1940s unit. I know and like the occupant of the other unit.
Yearly cost: $21,900
Estimated savings rate: 65%
Distance to dance / music classes: 15 min drive, 30 min public transit.
Walk-ability:  Expensive grocery store and chain coffee shops. Major trail network surrounding urban lakes nearby.
Crime: Two auto thefts on block, one armed robbery of business. 24 young men were arrested 2 blocks away for launching massive fireworks at cars, people, and homes in July :(.

Major differences:
- The 1 bedroom allow 3 month leases, which makes me fear that the tenant quality might be lower; there were people home during a work day, I saw children's toys, and people were smoking near the door by where my windows would be. BYO Window AC unit. Expenses above include paying extra for the 3 month lease to give a nice opportunity to bail if if it doesn't work out. The 8x6 dining room would become my office.
- I like this area slightly better, the street is slightly less busy and a mix of single family homes, businesses, and apartment buildings with 6-10 units each.

- The 2 bedroom is a one year lease. I don't have to worry about tenant quality. It's a busier street, but the unit is elevated on small hill which should mitigate street noise some. It's also near the airport flight path but received noise insulation upgrades in the late 1990s. Has central AC. A nice Second bedroom would be my office, and it has a partially finished basement.  Much bigger / better kitchen.
- This area didn't feel quite as nice, one nearby street corner was developed with a large luxury apartment with chain restaurants. The rest of the neighborhood is nearly all single family homes apart from some duplexes otherwise.
- Nearby lakes are nice, but don't satisfy me the same as solo hiking in the forest where I live today.


Questions:

1. What might help me make this decision easier?
2. How much of an impact should I let finances weigh? I currently have a 76% savings rate for reference. 
3. Is there anything I am overlooking?

[reeshau]

1. What might help me make this decision easier?

I just finished the book How To Decide, by Annie Duke.  She spends a good amount of time addressing difficult choices--when it's hard to choose between two options.  Her advice is to think about them in relation to another, less desirable choice.  This helps you put into perspective that they are both good, and spending a lot of time trying to optimize the remaining 1% of the benefit (vs. all the benefits of moving anyway) is not a good way to spend your time.

You hint at it, but another thing is to not view this as a permanent decision; even a year will go by fast, particularly if you are learning a new city.  Flip a coin, if you have to.  When you get there, you will directly experience tons of things, good and bad, that will lead you to your next place in that city.  Or, confirm that you got lucky with your choice!

I definitely think you are lucky to find choices with people you already know.

Personally, at the risk of giving you too much space (with lifestyle creep, although you are in a 2 bed now) I'd go for the duplex, with the shorter commute for classes.  Making life easier on a daily basis can overcome a lot of obstacles for occasional things.

[jrhampt]

I would go for option 2.  You have a decent net worth, and I don't think the difference in cost is a deal-breaker especially with the shorter comute.  I know you're not as excited about the lakes, but being close to the trail system and the arts classes would be the deciding factor for me.

[lhamo]

I would also take option 2 in your case.

The first option sounds like it could VERY quickly become stressful with so many people in close proximity with habits that do not coincide with your own -- the smoking near my apartment alone would make that a no-go for me.  Especially considering what you are moving from. 

Option 1 pushes you very much in the direction of not liking city life enough to continue the experiment.  Give yourself a real shot at the city life by taking option 2.

[superstarburn]

Thanks for everyone's advice!

I found a unit in a neighborhood I love.

The pros:
- It feels "like home"
- The neighborhood is nice
- it is plenty spacious
- There are a few units with loud people, but they are on the opposite end of the building. The first weekend has been dead silent.

The very bad:
- Low water pressure intermittently  - it took 45 seconds to get a gallon of water. It's a problem with hot and cold water in all rooms.
- Giant window (80x102") has a bent sliding pane and frame well beyond repair. It doesn't seal or lock, and I see duct tape residue from the previous tenant.
- Kitchen vent is built into the building itself, and doesn't draw any air outside.
- Newer, but cheap, stinky particle board cabinets. They seem to have absorbed smells from getting wet.
- Cat allergies (was told previous tenant had no cat). Their is kitty litter under the fridge and stove.....
- The hot water baseboard heaters seem to be the major source of cat odor, I disassembled them, vacuumed decades of dust, and rinsed with soap and water from a spray bottle using a cookie sheet to catch the nasty water. It's better; but years of dust and cat fur baked onto the fins will take more to be removed, and I can only imagine how bad it will get when the heat is turned on. I also bought a coway air purifier (had been eyeing it for a long time). I called them on the first day to report cat dander / allergy issues. They immediately offered to have carpets cleaned again.

The bad, but fixable:
- Place was not clean. Food under appliances, dirty walls, fingernails on bathroom floor, etc.
- Missing blinds \ badly repaired screen that doesn't seal, broken sliding doors in closet, etc.

The funny \ lazy
- Painted over 3M command hooks rather than removing.
- Rounded shower curtain bar pushes the curtain into the bathroom sink.
- Missed sections in painting, and wall colors don't match.

What I've done:
I have shared 20 pages of pictures and descriptions of the condition with the PM company. My game plan is to ask for an inspection with maintenance and property manager tomorrow and see what they are willing to address...

The question:

I like the unit itself and the location. I've looked around, there is nothing open in the area with the same amenities. I don't think I will find something new in a nice, safe, walk-able area on such short notice.

I have a feeling they are going to offer a refund and let me leave because the repairs (mainly window) will be too expensive and take too long.

They do have another unit in the building opening in October, but its not a top floor and I walked around last night and heard a loud movie playing in the unit directly above it so I am not interested. My unit is top floor, corner, with only one shared wall.

The property manager returned my call immediately on Friday when I reported dirty carpet and cat odor and scheduled to have carpets shampooed professionally again. I stopped by the leasing office to confirm they had gotten my email; I asked someone else turning in their move in check list of the condition. It was a different building; but they said everything was fine. I also have a friend who rents from them who said they have had no issues in a building a few blocks away. I stopped a maintenance guy in the hallway and mentioned the condition; he seemed surprised, and mentioned the unit was empty for a few months which is likely why the carpets were full of dust and dirt. There are no stains, so I do think they were cleaned properly months ago. I don't think a carpet cleaning will remove the smell since its coming from the baseboard heaters and particle board cabinets.

It feels like home and I like this unit apart from the issues.

What should I do?
- Abandon lease / refund; and put stuff into storage and stay in hotel or with friends?
- Request written confirmation of the repairs and deep cleaning they will perform?
- See other properties the PM company has open (They have nothing interesting open in this neighborhood right now)

Note: If I need to go nuclear, per city ordinance they have 14 days to fix non-sealing windows otherwise I can place rent into escrow and request a city inspection. I think they would rather refund me and let me abandon the lease before that.

[Dave1442397]

That's a lot of issues. Personally, I'd bail out and find something else.

Either that, or tell them you want a month-to-month arrangement (preferably with no security deposit) and see what they say. That would give you time to look for another place.