Case Study -- Please help me whittle down our budget!

[quelinda]

If I may offer one more suggestion about your last post, ie, you and the spouse being on the same page/working together.....
Let me encourage you to read Dave Ramsey's "The Total Money Makeover."  It's a fun, challenging book, designed to help couples (and singles with an accountability partner) work together to win with money.
It's NOT your job to "do the finances," nor is it your husband's job. Deciding together to win is so powerful for a couple.  Deciding to decide on what to spend money on is so powerful, creates intimacy, and actually removes guilt in our lives, as by creating boundaries for ourself/our family, we can spend guilt-free up to the boundaries.
If $1800 a month is too much for food to allow your family to win, work hard on it, just as you're doing, and apply the savings to killing debt, then building wealth through 401k savings, Roth IRA, etc when debt free.
Perhaps you could say to your husband, "Honey, there is something important that I'd like to talk about in the next day or two.  When could we sit down for 30 minutes and discuss it?"  If there is no TV on, no phones, computers, children, or distractions, you have a real chance at having a great conversation to share your feelings on how important it is for BOTH of you to work together on a monthly cash flow plan so your family can win with money.

You can do this, together.

Thanks. I've actually been a fan of Dave Ramsey for a long time. (Well, not a fan of some of his political and religious beliefs, or his disregard for the environment, but I take what I like and leave the rest.)

DH is totally willing to be a partner in this. And we have had financial discussions before...we just get lazy. I'm kind of a control freak and he's passive in this area. But we're making changes.

[quelinda]

 The OP has explained she needs to eat organically to accommodate her family's health issues, and she's looking into the suggestions to reduce her food costs while meeting their dietary restrictions.

I don't recall her explaining that she needs to eat organically for health issues; what kind of health issues require eating organic food only?   IIRC she has foods that her family cannot eat b/c of health reasons, but this has nothing to do with eating organically.

I assume she prefers organic for environmental reasons, animal rights reasons possibly coupled with concerns about ingesting pesticides.   While I do not believe that there have yet been any definite evidence of risks of not eating organically, I understand the motivation.   Like all things in life, IMO one really has to use the best evidence at our disposal to weigh chance of risk, level of risk, vs costs of avoiding risk.   

Ie., is the risk of eating broth made from non-organically raised beef (or just eating broth from vegetable scraps instead....) outweighed by the risk of not being able to retire for 25 years.

I didn't want to get into it, but since the grocery bill is the main bone of contention here (pun not intended but not unappreciated)...

I'm homozygous for a genetic defect that causes a reduced ability to filter toxins and requires increased amounts of certain nutrients to guide methylation. Since I have two copies (and DH has zero), that means our kids each have one copy. So I do everything I can to reduce our toxic load, particularly with the kids since they are still developing. I don't have a lot of stamina, and am often exhausted at the end of the day.

That doesn't mean I'm not trying to figure out how to do this more cheaply, though, so I appreciate all the suggestions.

[Cassie]

I think you are very smart to take good care of the kids diet. 

[quelinda]

So yeah your budget for food for 4 people is astronomical. Outrageous, unheard of, like how in the world do you spend that much, seriously, how?

Not to justify it or excuse it, but several other moms in my food allergy groups spend this much. Also, I'm not entirely sure it *is* that much -- but it's definitely over $1200, as this is the amount I always try to shoot for and never do. And my supplements cost a lot in addition to all the other things mentioned.

[quelinda]

Since some of the OPs food choices are driven by celiac and other intolerances, I want to point out that these are often caused by gut disbioses and infections. Eating Paleo or other elimination diets may reduce symptoms, which is GREAT if you've suffered for a long time. However, it may be possible to heal the gut and expand the foods that can be eaten. I would recommend looking into a functional medicine practitioner who can identify any infections and specific conditions such as SIBO. I would also recommend checking out the SCD and GAPS therapeutic approaches.

I have studied gut disbiosis and the relationship between food and gut health for YEARS. I've always been interested in nutrition, but when my oldest was born he had horrible colic, eczema, and all kinds of other problems. With no thanks to the countless doctors we saw, natural and traditional, *I* figured out he had fructose malabsorption (confirmed by a breath test; chronic constipation and accidents totally solved after pulling fructose -- and the pediatric gastro wanted him on Miralax long-term). *I* figured out his eczema was caused by wheat. *I* figured out his spitting up would go away when we took away soy and dairy. It was when he was a baby that I slowly changed my diet (he was exclusively breast fed) to incorporate meat and eggs again.

This is why it was so infuriating to hear that I jump from fad diet to fad diet, and I probably don't have any real medical problems and just need to eat a loaf of bread. (Not you, Habilis. Your suggestion was a good one. It's just that my older son has already been treated for SIBO. We're all much healthier, but it's not like flipping a switch.)

My younger son is much healthier, but he still has night terrors and rashes from yeast (especially from vinegar -- ketchup, pickles, etc.) and chronic loose stool. In fact, I'm in the middle of three days of collecting stool samples from him to send off to a lab so his doctor can find out what bacteria are living in his gut. The sad thing is that this is about the fifth time I've mixed and mashed vials of stool for testing, between both my boys.

So...that's why food is so damn important to me. I've been experimenting with what works for us for YEARS. Nine years if you go back to when my oldest was born. Our family doctor says I have a PhD. in nutrition, and totally respects my research.

[quelinda]

I think you are very smart to take good care of the kids diet.

Thank you. :)

[Habilis]

Since some of the OPs food choices are driven by celiac and other intolerances, I want to point out that these are often caused by gut disbioses and infections. Eating Paleo or other elimination diets may reduce symptoms, which is GREAT if you've suffered for a long time. However, it may be possible to heal the gut and expand the foods that can be eaten. I would recommend looking into a functional medicine practitioner who can identify any infections and specific conditions such as SIBO. I would also recommend checking out the SCD and GAPS therapeutic approaches.

I have studied gut disbiosis and the relationship between food and gut health for YEARS. I've always been interested in nutrition, but when my oldest was born he had horrible colic, eczema, and all kinds of other problems. With no thanks to the countless doctors we saw, natural and traditional, *I* figured out he had fructose malabsorption (confirmed by a breath test; chronic constipation and accidents totally solved after pulling fructose -- and the pediatric gastro wanted him on Miralax long-term). *I* figured out his eczema was caused by wheat. *I* figured out his spitting up would go away when we took away soy and dairy. It was when he was a baby that I slowly changed my diet (he was exclusively breast fed) to incorporate meat and eggs again.

This is why it was so infuriating to hear that I jump from fad diet to fad diet, and I probably don't have any real medical problems and just need to eat a loaf of bread. (Not you, Habilis. Your suggestion was a good one. It's just that my older son has already been treated for SIBO. We're all much healthier, but it's not like flipping a switch.)

My younger son is much healthier, but he still has night terrors and rashes from yeast (especially from vinegar -- ketchup, pickles, etc.) and chronic loose stool. In fact, I'm in the middle of three days of collecting stool samples from him to send off to a lab so his doctor can find out what bacteria are living in his gut. The sad thing is that this is about the fifth time I've mixed and mashed vials of stool for testing, between both my boys.

So...that's why food is so damn important to me. I've been experimenting with what works for us for YEARS. Nine years if you go back to when my oldest was born. Our family doctor says I have a PhD. in nutrition, and totally respects my research.

That's a lot of difficult detective work you've done, I admire your perseverance. I'm so happy to hear you and your kids are doing better. If you apply even a tenth of the energy and will you have towards food/health to your finances, things will get better.

[quelinda]

OK, so now that we have the background on why you are buying the types of foods you are buying, can we address the other elephant in the room?  WHERE are you buying these foods?  Because you have been dancing around it a bit, I have a strong suspicion it may be Whole Foods or a similar high priced specialty grocery store.

Here is the blunt truth:  If you want to save money, you need to find different sources for your staple foods, and probably several of them.

Whole Foods is beautiful, I get that.  And they have lovely food.  But all that beauty and ambiance and branding costs mucho dinero.  For them and for their customers. 

All the major grocery chains have organic food now.  And you can get a lot of stuff via Amazon Prime and Iherb (a great source for organic stuff).  And, not to beat you over the head with it, but Costco is the go-to source for many people here.

Do try to find The Tightwad Gazette at the library and read the section on the price book strategy.  This is especially important when you have dietary restrictions.  You need to start understanding how various stores near you price their foods, and how cyclical sales work.  You can save tons of money if you understand the system and buy in bulk when they are having big annual loss leader specials (things like the turkey sales around Thanksgiving and Christmas, etc).

And within the confines of your dietary restrictions, you need to be more careful about trying only to buy things in season.  September is not the time to be buying sweet potatoes -- November/December is (holiday loss leader season as well as when they are harvested).  If you are cooking and freezing them for muffins do it when they are cheapest, freeze enough to last you several months, and save tons of money.  You might need to invest in a separate chest freezer, but one month's savings compared to your current spending will take care of that -- less if you can find a second-hand freezer on Craigslist.

You also need to be creative about sourcing your meat.  You are in Wisconsin -- I can't believe there aren't ample sources of grass fed/organic meat in your part of the world. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is tough love.   You really will save a ton of money if you start doing more research and comparison shopping.  And you don't have to change your diet to do it.

Sorry, I wasn't dancing around. I mostly shop at our local natural foods co-op. I loathe Whole Foods, and only go there to get the few items our co-op doesn't carry. I also get a lot of things through Amazon's Subscribe & Save program -- maybe $100 or so a month. I've had more luck with Vitacost than with iHerb, and I do order from them every few months or so.

And my Costco membership *just* expired. I really didn't find a lot there that I wanted -- baking soda & vinegar for cleaning, Organic Valley string cheese, Kerrygold butter.

I *do* have a price book. I just don't really trust produce from Trader Joe's or Costco, even if it says organic. With the co-op I know EXACTLY which farm the food is coming from. But maybe I should take a second look?

But you are right in that I need to be more careful of what is in season and exactly what I'm buying.

[MayDay]

So for sweet potatoes, for instance, do you have a local farmer that you go buy 50 or 100 lbs from in the fall, and cellar them in your garage for the winter?

If you want to stick to your food values and also save on groceries, that is the kind of thing you have to do.

[okashira]

OK, so now that we have the background on why you are buying the types of foods you are buying, can we address the other elephant in the room?  WHERE are you buying these foods?  Because you have been dancing around it a bit, I have a strong suspicion it may be Whole Foods or a similar high priced specialty grocery store.

Here is the blunt truth:  If you want to save money, you need to find different sources for your staple foods, and probably several of them.

Whole Foods is beautiful, I get that.  And they have lovely food.  But all that beauty and ambiance and branding costs mucho dinero.  For them and for their customers. 

All the major grocery chains have organic food now.  And you can get a lot of stuff via Amazon Prime and Iherb (a great source for organic stuff).  And, not to beat you over the head with it, but Costco is the go-to source for many people here.

Do try to find The Tightwad Gazette at the library and read the section on the price book strategy.  This is especially important when you have dietary restrictions.  You need to start understanding how various stores near you price their foods, and how cyclical sales work.  You can save tons of money if you understand the system and buy in bulk when they are having big annual loss leader specials (things like the turkey sales around Thanksgiving and Christmas, etc).

And within the confines of your dietary restrictions, you need to be more careful about trying only to buy things in season.  September is not the time to be buying sweet potatoes -- November/December is (holiday loss leader season as well as when they are harvested).  If you are cooking and freezing them for muffins do it when they are cheapest, freeze enough to last you several months, and save tons of money.  You might need to invest in a separate chest freezer, but one month's savings compared to your current spending will take care of that -- less if you can find a second-hand freezer on Craigslist.

You also need to be creative about sourcing your meat.  You are in Wisconsin -- I can't believe there aren't ample sources of grass fed/organic meat in your part of the world. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is tough love.   You really will save a ton of money if you start doing more research and comparison shopping.  And you don't have to change your diet to do it.

Sorry, I wasn't dancing around. I mostly shop at our local natural foods co-op. I loathe Whole Foods, and only go there to get the few items our co-op doesn't carry. I also get a lot of things through Amazon's Subscribe & Save program -- maybe $100 or so a month. I've had more luck with Vitacost than with iHerb, and I do order from them every few months or so.

And my Costco membership *just* expired. I really didn't find a lot there that I wanted -- baking soda & vinegar for cleaning, Organic Valley string cheese, Kerrygold butter.

I *do* have a price book. I just don't really trust produce from Trader Joe's or Costco, even if it says organic. With the co-op I know EXACTLY which farm the food is coming from. But maybe I should take a second look?

But you are right in that I need to be more careful of what is in season and exactly what I'm buying.

You should give a long hard look to the costs of this co-op.

How many years of working life are you giving up (literally, calculate it) in order to get some in-calculable gain of years on the end of your life by eating these expensive foods?
Let me add that there are many people who live beyond 95 years old eating regular Kroger non-organic, let alone Costco organic.


My grandpa is 92, retired at 90 as an engineer, lives ALONE with no assistance, and he doesn't even know what "organic" means. He buys the cheapest crap at Kroger.

[Sylly]

I *do* have a price book. I just don't really trust produce from Trader Joe's or Costco, even if it says organic. With the co-op I know EXACTLY which farm the food is coming from. But maybe I should take a second look?

I don't understand why you question the organic stuff in Trader Joe's and Costco. Isn't the organic label regulated, as in, they won't be able to call it organic if the source doesn't meet the requirements for certification? These are big enough businesses who wouldn't call something organic if it isn't "officially" is, even if just to limit their liability.

[quelinda]

I *do* have a price book. I just don't really trust produce from Trader Joe's or Costco, even if it says organic. With the co-op I know EXACTLY which farm the food is coming from. But maybe I should take a second look?

I don't understand why you question the organic stuff in Trader Joe's and Costco. Isn't the organic label regulated, as in, they won't be able to call it organic if the source doesn't meet the requirements for certification? These are big enough businesses who wouldn't call something organic if it isn't "officially" is, even if just to limit their liability.

Because it's not always organic. And because I have no idea where the produce is actually coming from.

http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/is-organic-produce-really-chemical-free-abc15-investigation-puts-organics-to-the-test

[quelinda]

OK, so now that we have the background on why you are buying the types of foods you are buying, can we address the other elephant in the room?  WHERE are you buying these foods?  Because you have been dancing around it a bit, I have a strong suspicion it may be Whole Foods or a similar high priced specialty grocery store.

Here is the blunt truth:  If you want to save money, you need to find different sources for your staple foods, and probably several of them.

Whole Foods is beautiful, I get that.  And they have lovely food.  But all that beauty and ambiance and branding costs mucho dinero.  For them and for their customers. 

All the major grocery chains have organic food now.  And you can get a lot of stuff via Amazon Prime and Iherb (a great source for organic stuff).  And, not to beat you over the head with it, but Costco is the go-to source for many people here.

Do try to find The Tightwad Gazette at the library and read the section on the price book strategy.  This is especially important when you have dietary restrictions.  You need to start understanding how various stores near you price their foods, and how cyclical sales work.  You can save tons of money if you understand the system and buy in bulk when they are having big annual loss leader specials (things like the turkey sales around Thanksgiving and Christmas, etc).

And within the confines of your dietary restrictions, you need to be more careful about trying only to buy things in season.  September is not the time to be buying sweet potatoes -- November/December is (holiday loss leader season as well as when they are harvested).  If you are cooking and freezing them for muffins do it when they are cheapest, freeze enough to last you several months, and save tons of money.  You might need to invest in a separate chest freezer, but one month's savings compared to your current spending will take care of that -- less if you can find a second-hand freezer on Craigslist.

You also need to be creative about sourcing your meat.  You are in Wisconsin -- I can't believe there aren't ample sources of grass fed/organic meat in your part of the world. 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is tough love.   You really will save a ton of money if you start doing more research and comparison shopping.  And you don't have to change your diet to do it.

Sorry, I wasn't dancing around. I mostly shop at our local natural foods co-op. I loathe Whole Foods, and only go there to get the few items our co-op doesn't carry. I also get a lot of things through Amazon's Subscribe & Save program -- maybe $100 or so a month. I've had more luck with Vitacost than with iHerb, and I do order from them every few months or so.

And my Costco membership *just* expired. I really didn't find a lot there that I wanted -- baking soda & vinegar for cleaning, Organic Valley string cheese, Kerrygold butter.

I *do* have a price book. I just don't really trust produce from Trader Joe's or Costco, even if it says organic. With the co-op I know EXACTLY which farm the food is coming from. But maybe I should take a second look?

But you are right in that I need to be more careful of what is in season and exactly what I'm buying.

You should give a long hard look to the costs of this co-op.

How many years of working life are you giving up (literally, calculate it) in order to get some in-calculable gain of years on the end of your life by eating these expensive foods?
Let me add that there are many people who live beyond 95 years old eating regular Kroger non-organic, let alone Costco organic.


My grandpa is 92, retired at 90 as an engineer, lives ALONE with no assistance, and he doesn't even know what "organic" means. He buys the cheapest crap at Kroger.

I agree that I need to perform a cost-benefit analysis, and decide what things are important enough for me to keep and what changes I can make.

However, I reject your n=1 example of your grandpa. A lot of longevity has to do with how well you were nourished as a child and what your genetics are. In my family heart disease, dementia, stroke, blood clotting disorder, gout, arthritis and other disease runs rampant. But then my grandparents lived in poverty and were not well-nourished as infants, and we don't have genetics on our side.

[1967mama]

This is from the abc news link posted by quelinda:

"However, on all produce you buy, Sumner recommends to simply wash your food. That can remove about 50 percent of residues.

Studies have been done to see if organic produce is safer,healthier or more nutritious. They have not proven that to be the case. Read

more from the Mayo Clinic and from the Stanford School of Medicine."

Also, this article/video is saying that ALL food labelled organic could be contaminated from DDT used decades ago that has leached into the soil, by neighbouring fields, the shipping process, where it is placed in the storeroom, etc.  So really, can we ever be 100% sure that our food is completely organic in every sense of the word? Unless you know your farmer personally, how can we be 100% sure that they didn't douse the crops at some point?

I'm good with well washed organic COSTCO produce ... YMMV.

[Sylly]

Because it's not always organic. And because I have no idea where the produce is actually coming from.

http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/is-organic-produce-really-chemical-free-abc15-investigation-puts-organics-to-the-test

I always read science-y news articles with a grain of salt, primarily because they often draw or strongly imply something that can't be concluded from whatever study or test they're basing it all on. That said..

Note that this article, and the particular test they've done, simply states there are chemical residues on organic food (and just 22% of them, with 10% of those being trace amounts). It doesn't say what the levels are, relative to anything -- neither similar organic produce on average nor similar conventional produce on average. The article also lists possible sources for the residues, which seems to me, can happen to any organic supplier. So what would I conclude from this particular article? Nothing. Just that organic does not equal chemical/pesticide free, which isn't what organic claims anyway. Ok, there's one instance of illegal residue (on the basil). Is it cause for concern? Not really, since I don't know what the frequency of such incidence is. If I really worry, I'll just plant my own basil (which is much cheaper anyway, provided you can keep it alive).

Understand that I'm not saying organic is no better than conventional. I did look and found a study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24968103 that shows conventional produce having higher incidence and/or level* of some toxic elements **. So does this paper increase my desire to eat organically? Not really. I've been thinking of going organic sporadically for things in the Dirty Dozen list, if the price difference isn't significant (to me), and this paper doesn't really nudge me further toward that direction.

In my searches, I also found this article:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2012/09/24/pesticides-food-fears/
which sums up better than I can, why I *personally* don't really bother spending too much on organic. It's a cost-benefit analysis. Considering your health concerns, I can understand that your analysis is significantly tilted toward the benefit side of organic food. But you did come here for input, and my input is this-- consider carefully your cost-benefit analysis. You say you like your co-op because you know exactly which farms the food comes from. Do you know for sure that means it's much better than other organic supplier, and not subject to all the other sources of chemicals? Is it worth the price difference?

*I think both from my quick reading, but I didn't thoroughly read the paper
**I don't know all the toxic stuff that should be looked for in foodstuffs, or whether the specific ones included in the study make up a significant portion of it

[quelinda]

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Sylly. I did link to that in a hurry -- I realize it isn't the most scientific of websites.

Not *trusting* sources of organic produce when I don't know where they come from is one issue, but I also like/want to support local farmers and not eat produce that's been shipped a great distance. Not only from a nutrient density standpoint, but from a voting-with-my-dollars standpoint.

I do get that I need to evaluate whether or not we can SPARE the dollars I want to vote with. I really do. I'm just struggling with how to secure our financial future AND stick to my ideals as much as possible.

[foobar]

My grandpa is 92, retired at 90 as an engineer, lives ALONE with no assistance, and he doesn't even know what "organic" means. He buys the cheapest crap at Kroger.

And when he was growing up in 1920-40 something do you think the food he was eating was closer to the modern organic food or the cheap crap at Kroger?:)

If you want to live a long time, experience has shown:
Bacon: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/09/105-year-old-woman-says-bacon-keeps-her-alive/

and smoking: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3505139

to be the keys. There is no chance sample sizes of 1 can be misleading:)

These type of issues are hard. When you spray a bunch of DDT on the plants you can see the bugs die.  It took 20+ years after that to figure out that there were some side effects.  We know things pesticides in high dosages can be linked to some cancers and neurological diseases. Taking the next step (i.e. going from the farmer who was bathing in them to the guy that eats them after cleaning, cooking and whatever out dilution happens) is very, very hard.  I tend to lean on the side it doesn't matter (except for hormones in meat. I guess I was weired out by the girls hitting puberty at 5 where ground water had a large amount of contamination:)) but it is going to take a real long time before anything conclusive is proven.

[Sylly]

If you want to live a long time, experience has shown:
Bacon: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/09/105-year-old-woman-says-bacon-keeps-her-alive/

Woohoo! Moar bacon!

[Señora Savings]

I do get that I need to evaluate whether or not we can SPARE the dollars I want to vote with. I really do. I'm just struggling with how to secure our financial future AND stick to my ideals as much as possible.

Being environmentally friendly and saving money work together.

For example you can keep buying local organic food, but also stop driving your family of four around in a minivan, decrease your heating and cooling, find reusable products, buy used clothes, stop having netflix ship videos to you.

[Helvegen]

Well, if you aren't willing to compromise on the grocery budget, perhaps you need more income instead.

[RunHappy]

Well, if you aren't willing to compromise on the grocery budget, perhaps you need more income instead.

I would say if they aren't willing to compromise on food then they should move to a cheaper house.

[Helvegen]

But she wasn't willing to compromise on that either, so if they aren't serious about cutting the budget, they need more money.

[schoopsthecat]

Quelinda, you have done an excellent job explaining why you can't actually cut your budget in any meaningful way.  It sounds like your health and children's issues probably mean that you also won't be able to get an additional job to increase your income.  I feel very sad for you.  I hope that you'll have a long talk soon with your older children (probably you already have) about your need for them to earn and save enough money when they start working that they can take care of you in your old age. 

[neophyte]

It seems like cutting the grocery budget isn't palatable; where else can they tighten their belt? 

First OP, I'd recommend you go to the Social Security website and use their calculators to estimate what your benefit will be come retirement time. You can use that to information to help guide some of your cost cutting measures. Will that be enough for you and hubby?  If so, you're probably fine, you won't retire early, but you'll get there one day, no dramatic lifestyle changes necessary. If not, continue trying to figure out which sacrifices you can make.

Ok, next I'd recommend you check out this thread over on the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy.

Now, back to the budget:

Monthly budget:
Mortgage: $1656
Groceries: ~$1800
Let's assume mortgage and groceries are non-negotiable for the time being. The groceries are worth $21,600 per year to them and the house is worth another $20k/year.
Spending: $256 
No. Keep the allowance for the kid but you and hubby can tough it out with less until the CC and auto debt is gone.
Gas/electric: $190 (budget billing)
Look to save energy wherever you can. House colder in the winter and hotter in the summer. Shorter, cooler showers, only wash your hair every other day, plastic over your windows in the winter, wear your clothes and use your towels an extra time before washing if possible.  Don't run the washer or the dishwasher with a less than full load. Line dry clothes if possible....
Credit card payment: $184 (any difference in income & outgo goes to paying this off)
Cell phones: $144 (for DH & me; thinking about switching to Ting)
Good job sending all the extra to the credit card. Switch those cell phones.
Minivan payment: $144 (I know, I know)
Sell the minivan and replace it with a smaller, cheaper used car if you must have a second vehicle.
Gasoline: $100
Why is gas so high if hubby only commutes a couple miles and you can walk/bike with the kids when the weather is decent? Is it organic?
Home phone & DSL: $80
You don't need a home phone if you've got the cell. Cut that and negotiate a lower internet rate, threaten to switch providers or cancel.
Netflix: $17
I thought this was more like $7?  Anyway, cancel for a month or two and see how you get along with all the free stuff on hulu.

Contingency Fund Monthly Contributions:
Move things like insurance and taxes to the budget, have one emergency fund for the rest as has been previously mentioned.  I think Dave Ramsey suggests having a $1000 emergency fund while you are trying to pay off debt and then building it more after the debt is gone. Maybe $2k cause you've got little kids. If you have a lot more than that in your emergency fund, throw it at that credit card.
Car insurance: $75
Move to budget. Can you shop around and try to find a better rate? Raise your deductible?
Car repair/maintenance: $140
Emergency fund
Clothing: $50
Move to budget, reduce by buying second hand, getting hand-me-downs from cousins, etc.
Computer supplies: $30
Huh?
Gifts/holidays: $160
Move to budget and cut this back until the debt is gone. Christmas will still be fine even if you don't spend as much on gifts this year.
Home improvement/repair: $100
Generic emergency fund for repairs. No home improvement until debt is gone.
Homeowners insurance: $45
Life insurance: $58
Move to budget.
Medical bills: $100
Generic emergency fund unless this is a regular prescription expense or something in which case it moves to the budget.
Misc. household: $75
What's this?
Property taxes: $575
Move to budget
School & activities: $70
Move to budget
Umbrella policy: $12
Move to budget
Water: $110
Move to budget and try to cut use as much as possible. If it's yellow, let it mellow...

With all these small changes you might be able to shave off a couple hundred a month. Your biggest expenses are also your biggest opportunity to save money, that's just the way things work.

[former player]

Gasoline: $100
Why is gas so high if hubby only commutes a couple miles and you can walk/bike with the kids when the weather is decent? Is it organic?

I LOL'd

[zhelud]

Gasoline: $100
Why is gas so high if hubby only commutes a couple miles and you can walk/bike with the kids when the weather is decent? Is it organic?

I LOL'd

Crude oil is most definitely organic, since it comes from decomposed organisms that died millions of years ago. And since nobody was using pesticides back then, those plants and animals qualify as organic. Of course, unless you know exactly what refinery is processing the crude oil into gasoline, you have no idea what kind of chemicals they might be adding. That's why I only buy gasoline from my local gasoline co-op. Even though it's $20/gallon, it's worth it.

[RelaxedGal]

Clothing: $50
Move to budget, reduce by buying second hand, getting hand-me-downs from cousins, etc.

I'd like to step in and say $150 per person, per year isn't that much.  I think I spend nearly that much on extra-wide shoes for my daughter - 2 pairs of athletic shoes ($40 each), 1 pair of boots ($60),  a pair of flip-flops ($10) and you're there.  If you can get regular width everything is half that price at Target, or maybe you can score something on eBay or at a consignment sale.   Which means WOO, some breathing room in that $150 to buy new white shirts, since all the ones handed down from cousins are stained to some degree.

I have no additional advice, I just wanted to chime in that I think it's a reasonable annual cap on clothing spending with 2 kids.

[klystomane]

Gasoline: $100
Why is gas so high if hubby only commutes a couple miles and you can walk/bike with the kids when the weather is decent? Is it organic?

I LOL'd

I also LOL'd...brilliant.

[quelinda]

Well, I never said I wasn't willing to work on our food budget! I most definitely am. I'm just hoping to cut it down while still maintaining the quality that's important to me.

So far I've started writing down everything we buy that goes in the grocery category and posting it on our computer so DH can see it whenever he wants. That alone is making me think twice before buying something. I think I often go to the co-op because I'm home all day with a preschooler and I get bored -- and I end up buying treats or things we don't really need.

I've also joined a UNFI (United Natural Foods Inc.) buying club. UNFI is the company that supplies my co-op with a lot of its packaged food. I will definitely be using my price book to make sure their prices are the best I can find, but I think this should help.

And lastly, I'm being more careful about using up what we have and cutting the waste.

I know that this a an early retirement forum, and I'm not very badass, but I'm not really looking to live extremely. DH likes his work, we like where we live, and food is important to us. I *am* looking to cut our expenses and live more intentionally, finally pay off our debt and resume saving for retirement.

[quelinda]

Clothing: $50
Move to budget, reduce by buying second hand, getting hand-me-downs from cousins, etc.

I'd like to step in and say $150 per person, per year isn't that much.  I think I spend nearly that much on extra-wide shoes for my daughter - 2 pairs of athletic shoes ($40 each), 1 pair of boots ($60),  a pair of flip-flops ($10) and you're there.  If you can get regular width everything is half that price at Target, or maybe you can score something on eBay or at a consignment sale.   Which means WOO, some breathing room in that $150 to buy new white shirts, since all the ones handed down from cousins are stained to some degree.

I have no additional advice, I just wanted to chime in that I think it's a reasonable annual cap on clothing spending with 2 kids.

My sons also have extra-wide feet, and my older one requires gym shoes that be kept at school. That, along with rain boots, winter boots and everyday shoes cost a ton. Also, my DH is tall and needs "tall man" clothing. I don't buy much for myself.

[quelinda]

Gasoline: $100
Why is gas so high if hubby only commutes a couple miles and you can walk/bike with the kids when the weather is decent? Is it organic?

I LOL'd

Hardy har har.

My elderly mother lives 45 minutes away, and we go see her regularly, especially when my son is off school. I also drive to the grocery store and for other errands we can't walk to. My husband plays music with other guys and drives to practice and shows once a week or so. We both fill up about once a month -- gas is currently $3.50 a gallon here.

[waltworks]

I sometimes find it useful to make a "budget" that includes things I'm NOT saving/paying for so that prioritizing is a more obvious "if I do this, then I can't do that" exercise. Budgeting is a zero sum game, after all.

You might add (with all zeros):
-Retirement savings. Check your SS expected benefits - as of now, you're basically relying entirely on SS at 65.
-Paying for some/all of children's college. This isn't everyone's thing, of course, but as of now, you won't be able to contribute anything.
-Money to cover job loss or medical emergency/rainy day fund.
-Assisting family/friends in need.
-Charitable giving to good causes as you see fit.
-Travel/adventure/sports that cost money.
-Future "needs" you don't know about yet (in 1975, nobody needed a computer or internet service, right?) You never know what mind-bendingly useful tech will come out that will become a requirement of modern life.

You can probably think of other things as well. If your number one priority is the finest organic food and driving to school when it's cold, that's great - but on your budget, you need to recognize that you are *choosing those over all of those other things*. Seeing a bunch of those zeros on your budget sheet can sometimes help make that clear.

-W

[quelinda]

I sometimes find it useful to make a "budget" that includes things I'm NOT saving/paying for so that prioritizing is a more obvious "if I do this, then I can't do that" exercise. Budgeting is a zero sum game, after all.

You might add (with all zeros):
-Retirement savings. Check your SS expected benefits - as of now, you're basically relying entirely on SS at 65.
-Paying for some/all of children's college. This isn't everyone's thing, of course, but as of now, you won't be able to contribute anything.
-Money to cover job loss or medical emergency/rainy day fund.
-Assisting family/friends in need.
-Charitable giving to good causes as you see fit.
-Travel/adventure/sports that cost money.
-Future "needs" you don't know about yet (in 1975, nobody needed a computer or internet service, right?) You never know what mind-bendingly useful tech will come out that will become a requirement of modern life.

You can probably think of other things as well. If your number one priority is the finest organic food and driving to school when it's cold, that's great - but on your budget, you need to recognize that you are *choosing those over all of those other things*. Seeing a bunch of those zeros on your budget sheet can sometimes help make that clear.

-W

Thank you -- this seems like a very enlightening exercise.

[mozar]

Hello,
You can make your own fire roasted tomatoes, and vegetable broth is even cheaper. Are there any local farmers you can barter with? Like sewing or bookkeeping in return for food? The meals you posted seemed pretty extravagant. Sweet potato biscuits are fun but not necessary.
Get used to eating less variety. Anything you can make that will last several days is good. Like a big pot of chili. Vegan grilled cheese with tomato soup for several nights. You don't need to buy sausage pre-made. It would be cheaper to make it yourself.
Can you garden? If you could just grow tomatoes and kale you could save a lot of money.
Your kids don't need to eat much fruit. It is just sugar with a little bit of fiber. And it's not filling. Most fruits we eat today weren't even available in the grocery store 50 years ago. I'll eat a few local peaches in August, a few local apples in September and maybe a rasberry/ bluberry frozen smoothie in the summer and I'm good to go. Can your kids eat seeds or nuts or dried fruit which lasts a lot longer?
I've also reduced the calories I was eating. I started counting and realized I was eating about 3000 a day and I only need 2000.

[mozar]

I've heard good things about this book.
http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Hungry-Feeding-Men-Boys/dp/1579655122

[resy]

Just as a reminder: your hair is on fire, you have little to no emergency fund, and are not contributing anything to retirement.   

   You currently spend close to my entire household budget for our family 3 on food alone, don't cut your own hair, use water filters and eat super fancy breakfast sausage each morning, but  yet, you don't want to move out of your expensive house, you don't want to cut your gift budget, and your dh wants even more spending money.

This is an emergency situation (and you should discuss it as such with your DH), you have no legit excuses for not cutting out such silly spending.  None.

Yup. This is what I thought as well. There seems to be tons of excuses, and lots of fancy stuff in there imo.

[Simple Abundant Living]

I've been following this thread for a while and just wanted to post. Quelinda, I can see
you are trying to give your family a good, healthy life.  I'm sure it's difficult to deal with different nutritional needs, as well as find something that the kids like.  I know you're working on getting that food bill down, so I won't comment on that.  I feel like you believe many of your other budget items are non-negationable.  In light of your retirement, debt, and savings position, it seems like you just may need to think about bringing in more income.  There are a lot of ideas about how you might do that.  Without knowing your skill set, I would just recommend thinking about offering daycare for another child/children that are close to your children's ages.  It might not seem like much, but if you can put an extra $1000/mo towards debt reduction or savings, it really adds up.  I work 2-days a week and make a small fraction of what my husband makes per hour.  The upside of that is that I look at things to buy as in how many hours it takes me to pay for it, instead of my husband. I think I've gotten more frugal since I started working! 

[quelinda]

I've been quiet here the past few days as I think about what changes to make and how to implement them. I don't have any altered numbers to show yet, but this is what I'm working on:

• DH & I are definitely going to restart contributing to his 401K up to the match, which will be about $260/paycheck.

• I'm actively working on lowering our grocery bill by writing down everything we buy (which keeps me accountable), joining a buying club for packaged goods, and looking into cow shares/meat CSAs.
  

• I'm going to change my cell phone. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go with Ting (which would require buying a new Sprint iPhone & selling my old Verizon iPhone. But if I got the same model -- the 4 -- it shouldn't really cost me any money to do so) or just use my iPhone as an iPod and get a cheap TracPhone for calls, since I don't make that many. I'm leaning toward Ting because I think I could get DH on board to do that, too.

• I'm changing how I do the contingency fund, only keeping some of the categories. So $1000/month will still go to the contingency fund, but $600 will be added to the monthly budget. That should make me think harder about the little expenses that come up every month but aren't "due" like insurance premiums.

It hasn't even been a week since I made my original post, so despite many people scoffing at me, I think this is a good step in the right direction.

[Gin1984]

Have you ever called your credit card company and ask for them to lower your rate?

[quelinda]

Have you ever called your credit card company and ask for them to lower your rate?

Yes, I did, but we closed credit card account so they wouldn't budge.

I *am* going to call our internet provider and ask for a promotional/lower rate, though.

[Gin1984]

Have you ever called your credit card company and ask for them to lower your rate?

Yes, I did, but we closed credit card account so they wouldn't budge.

I *am* going to call our internet provider and ask for a promotional/lower rate, though.

Ok, if your credit is high enough you may want to look into opening a zero percent card, and paying as much off that way.  Doing that can cut months off.

[Simple Abundant Living]

I'm going to change my cell phone. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go with Ting (which would require buying a new Sprint iPhone & selling my old Verizon iPhone. But if I got the same model -- the 4 -- it shouldn't really cost me any money to do so) or just use my iPhone as an iPod and get a cheap TracPhone for calls, since I don't make that many. I'm leaning toward Ting because I think I could get DH on board to do that, too

If you are ok with Verizon service, check out page plus. They use the Verizon network and you may be able to bring your devices over.  I personally hate the sprint network here, so you'll never see me on ting.  I successfully ported our AT&T iPhones over to Airvoice and we are happy with it.

[quelinda]

I'm going to change my cell phone. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go with Ting (which would require buying a new Sprint iPhone & selling my old Verizon iPhone. But if I got the same model -- the 4 -- it shouldn't really cost me any money to do so) or just use my iPhone as an iPod and get a cheap TracPhone for calls, since I don't make that many. I'm leaning toward Ting because I think I could get DH on board to do that, too

If you are ok with Verizon service, check out page plus. They use the Verizon network and you may be able to bring your devices over.  I personally hate the sprint network here, so you'll never see me on ting.  I successfully ported our AT&T iPhones over to Airvoice and we are happy with it.

Wow, thanks for the tip. I just may do this. It's no-contract, right?

This is what I'm looking at:

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/PlansC.aspx

Am I correct in understanding that this plan doesn't include data, so any web surfing I'd do away from free wifi would be $0.066 per MB? And I'd get free texting with it, but if I sent a video or picture with it that would cost extra?

The world of cell phones puzzles me.

[Simple Abundant Living]

I'm going to change my cell phone. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go with Ting (which would require buying a new Sprint iPhone & selling my old Verizon iPhone. But if I got the same model -- the 4 -- it shouldn't really cost me any money to do so) or just use my iPhone as an iPod and get a cheap TracPhone for calls, since I don't make that many. I'm leaning toward Ting because I think I could get DH on board to do that, too

If you are ok with Verizon service, check out page plus. They use the Verizon network and you may be able to bring your devices over.  I personally hate the sprint network here, so you'll never see me on ting.  I successfully ported our AT&T iPhones over to Airvoice and we are happy with it.

Wow, thanks for the tip. I just may do this. It's no-contract, right?

This is what I'm looking at:

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/PlansC.aspx

Am I correct in understanding that this plan doesn't include data, so any web surfing I'd do away from free wifi would be $0.066 per MB? And I'd get free texting with it, but if I sent a video or picture with it that would cost extra?

The world of cell phones puzzles me.

There is no contract.  And it is really $10, no more fees or taxes.  $10.
Your $10/mo includes 500 texts OR 250 minutes OR data at $0.066 per MB, however you want to use it.  This is the plan my kids are on.  I provide this plan and by having auto billing, the credit rolls over from month to month.  For example, my 13dd (doesn't text or call a lot yet) has a $86.00 credit right now.  My 18ds (I guess you'd call him popular) could blow through $10 in less than a week.  What IP Daley (communications super-guru) would tell you is to first find out what you are currently using and then find a plan that will work.  I don't have long distance on my home phone, so my cell phone is important to me.  I got the $30 unlimited plan.  I get unlimited talk and text and 500MB of data, which is plenty for me if I use wifi at home and around as much as possible.  If you use your phone heavily- especially if you have no land line or have basic services, I would suggest that plan.  If you just use it now and then and are mostly home, you would probably be fine with the $10 plan, maybe having to add an additional $10 throughout the month.  You can change at any time, so you could try the $10 plan, then switch if you burn through it too fast. 

One more thing.  My kids plan gives them a "text" after each call or text telling them their current balance and how much that used.  Some find this annoying, but at least they know where they're at.

Ok, one other thing.  I love iphones, but IP Daley would tell you if you are selling your old phone and buying a new phone for an MVNO, to buy another (non-Apple) smartphone.  Supposedly iPhones are data sucks and yada yada yada... but the heart wants what the heart wants, I guess. 

Here's the link to the son of the Superguide.  IP is the man, but I'm not so technical either, so some of what he's talking about goes over my head!

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/index.php?topic=14308.0

[quelinda]

I'm going to change my cell phone. I'm still trying to figure out if I should go with Ting (which would require buying a new Sprint iPhone & selling my old Verizon iPhone. But if I got the same model -- the 4 -- it shouldn't really cost me any money to do so) or just use my iPhone as an iPod and get a cheap TracPhone for calls, since I don't make that many. I'm leaning toward Ting because I think I could get DH on board to do that, too

If you are ok with Verizon service, check out page plus. They use the Verizon network and you may be able to bring your devices over.  I personally hate the sprint network here, so you'll never see me on ting.  I successfully ported our AT&T iPhones over to Airvoice and we are happy with it.

Wow, thanks for the tip. I just may do this. It's no-contract, right?

This is what I'm looking at:

https://www.airvoicewireless.com/PlansC.aspx

Am I correct in understanding that this plan doesn't include data, so any web surfing I'd do away from free wifi would be $0.066 per MB? And I'd get free texting with it, but if I sent a video or picture with it that would cost extra?

The world of cell phones puzzles me.

There is no contract.  And it is really $10, no more fees or taxes.  $10.
Your $10/mo includes 500 texts OR 250 minutes OR data at $0.066 per MB, however you want to use it.  This is the plan my kids are on.  I provide this plan and by having auto billing, the credit rolls over from month to month.  For example, my 13dd (doesn't text or call a lot yet) has a $86.00 credit right now.  My 18ds (I guess you'd call him popular) could blow through $10 in less than a week.  What IP Daley (communications super-guru) would tell you is to first find out what you are currently using and then find a plan that will work.  I don't have long distance on my home phone, so my cell phone is important to me.  I got the $30 unlimited plan.  I get unlimited talk and text and 500MB of data, which is plenty for me if I use wifi at home and around as much as possible.  If you use your phone heavily- especially if you have no land line or have basic services, I would suggest that plan.  If you just use it now and then and are mostly home, you would probably be fine with the $10 plan, maybe having to add an additional $10 throughout the month.  You can change at any time, so you could try the $10 plan, then switch if you burn through it too fast. 

One more thing.  My kids plan gives them a "text" after each call or text telling them their current balance and how much that used.  Some find this annoying, but at least they know where they're at.

Ok, one other thing.  I love iphones, but IP Daley would tell you if you are selling your old phone and buying a new phone for an MVNO, to buy another (non-Apple) smartphone.  Supposedly iPhones are data sucks and yada yada yada... but the heart wants what the heart wants, I guess. 

Here's the link to the son of the Superguide.  IP is the man, but I'm not so technical either, so some of what he's talking about goes over my head!

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/index.php?topic=14308.0

Thank you! I'm changing my service tonight (when DH & I get a kid-free moment). If all goes well, DH will do it, too.

[2ndTimer]

I think you deserve some praise for sticking with this despite the face punching.  Keeping track of what you buy at the grocery store is a great idea.  I was amazed at how much I was spending on nonessentials like snacks and drinks and interesting ingredients that I didn't use.  Like you, I was going to the grocery store more often than I needed to because I was bored and you can imagine how that worked out.  Once I understood what was going on it was fairly easy to find other activities that didn't involve shopping.  Frankly, the revelation that I was relying on grocery shopping for intellectual stimulation was pretty pathetic.

[Malaysia41]

I think you deserve some praise for sticking with this despite the face punching.  Keeping track of what you buy at the grocery store is a great idea.  I was amazed at how much I was spending on nonessentials like snacks and drinks and interesting ingredients that I didn't use.  Like you, I was going to the grocery store more often than I needed to because I was bored and you can imagine how that worked out.  Once I understood what was going on it was fairly easy to find other activities that didn't involve shopping.  Frankly, the revelation that I was relying on grocery shopping for intellectual stimulation was pretty pathetic.

Kudos on the insight!  You sound like a confident person - to be so self-deprecating :).

And I second your compliment to quelinda - I agree - kudos on coming back here even when all battered and bruised.

Pre -MMM our monthly food budget was $1600.  Who am I fooling with the word 'budget'?  Our monthly food expenses averaged about $1600.  I just kind of figured it was what it was and didn't put too much effort into lowering it. 

Now our food budget - and yes - budget - is $900.  We could do $600 I'm sure, but $900 turns out to be the easy to achieve budget that allows for  flexibility.  This month I think we'll come in at $750 and we may consider making that the new budget.  It comes down to dialing in small tweaks here and there, making them systematic and whammo - you've shaved off hundreds per month.

"Inch by inch, life's a cinch, yard by yard, life is hard"  Good luck!

 

[Calvawt]

quelinda-  I would also like to give you props for sticking with this discussion.  Incremental improvement is not a bad thing.  Holding yourself accountable for the purchases will make a big difference.

We spend about $750 a month at Costco and the grocery store (includes formula and 2 kids in diapers).  I constantly complain it is too high and my wife tries to not get frustrated with me.  We are trying more beans and rice and more meals with tuna or no meat.  I realize you have some dietary goals and restrictions, so I wish you good luck on the journey.

The cell phone adjustments will help and I am extremely please to see you are starting the retirement contributions back up.  I think that is a wise choice.  Keep at it!

[Songbird]

Congrats for not being scared away by the facepunching.  :)

Mozar beat me to what I was going to post.  :) Others may have as well, I didn't read every single response, but what about gardening?  Even container gardening can have a huge impact on your food budget, especially if you live on a tiny lot.  One cherry tomato plant could feed an army just about.  They are quite prolific.  Or tucking in a carrot patch or some green beans.  I don't know what foods you can or can't eat with the health considerations so these are just examples.  I do know there are potato farmers here that sell gleanings from their fields after harvest...huge burlap bags full for around $10.  Potatoes store very well in a cool dark place.  Even under a bed works.  I would highly suggest starting a food pantry to maximize your deals when you find them.  Buy at rock bottom prices and stockup.   That might help that food budget more than anything. 

I did see Tightwad Gazette mentioned and you said you used to be a subscriber (me too!).  I would recommend rereading those books/newsletters for inspiration and encouragement.  They help get me back on track when I need to sometimes.  Also, the Prudent Homemaker lady has a great blog and website filled with low/no cost ideas for raising a large family. www.theprudenthomemaker.blogspot.com   www.theprudenthomemaker.com   She is amazing at stretching pennies and does it all with such flair.

I also wanted to mention that couponing can yield free/almost free toiletries, cat litter, makeup, toothbrushes/paste, shampoo, deodorant, first aid supplies etc.  Sites such as www.weusecoupons.com or www.hotcouponworld can get you started.  If you have a Target near you they have the best deals...   www.totallytarget.com is a great website and you can also find great deals through www.hip2save.com.   All of this does take time but even if you just focus in on the best deals you could get a lot of the non-food items at greatly reduced prices or even free.  This helps the budget so much.

[Gin1984]

Congrats for not being scared away by the facepunching.  :)

Mozar beat me to what I was going to post.  :) Others may have as well, I didn't read every single response, but what about gardening?  Even container gardening can have a huge impact on your food budget, especially if you live on a tiny lot.  One cherry tomato plant could feed an army just about.  They are quite prolific.  Or tucking in a carrot patch or some green beans.  I don't know what foods you can or can't eat with the health considerations so these are just examples.  I do know there are potato farmers here that sell gleanings from their fields after harvest...huge burlap bags full for around $10.  Potatoes store very well in a cool dark place.  Even under a bed works.  I would highly suggest starting a food pantry to maximize your deals when you find them.  Buy at rock bottom prices and stockup.   That might help that food budget more than anything. 

I did see Tightwad Gazette mentioned and you said you used to be a subscriber (me too!).  I would recommend rereading those books/newsletters for inspiration and encouragement.  They help get me back on track when I need to sometimes.  Also, the Prudent Homemaker lady has a great blog and website filled with low/no cost ideas for raising a large family. www.theprudenthomemaker.blogspot.com   www.theprudenthomemaker.com   She is amazing at stretching pennies and does it all with such flair.

I also wanted to mention that couponing can yield free/almost free toiletries, cat litter, makeup, toothbrushes/paste, shampoo, deodorant, first aid supplies etc.  Sites such as www.weusecoupons.com or www.hotcouponworld can get you started.  If you have a Target near you they have the best deals...   www.totallytarget.com is a great website and you can also find great deals through www.hip2save.com.   All of this does take time but even if you just focus in on the best deals you could get a lot of the non-food items at greatly reduced prices or even free.  This helps the budget so much.

I use mypoints to get gift cards to use at cvs or walgreens which I then "play the grocery game" as some couponers call it.  I used iheartcvs as a guide.  It does save me a ton but the deal have decreased from when I was getting everything for tax or .50/each.  Still, it is a good way to save as is swagbucks. www.swagbucks.com/refer/Gin1984 is my referral link.  I get about $5-10 in amazon gift cards which I use for our baby's diapers/wipes.  It really does stretch things.  The referral should start you off with some extra, if you chose to use it.