Car Troubles

[littlej2455]

Hi,

I would like to get your opinion on my current car situation. I currently drive a 2010 SUV that has 167,000 miles on it. My wife and I purchased the car 3 years ago and have really enjoyed it. We are starting to have more issues with the car due to its age and high miles. We are kind of at a cross roads as to when do you decide to call it quits on an old car, and when do you purchase a newer used car. What's your thoughts and opinions on keep fixing the old car or getting a newer used car? Thank you so much!

[acepedro45]

More information needed, like make/model, recent repair history, and how personally handy you are.

But generally on this forum, 167,000 miles and ten years is not that old and most properly maintained cars can be expected to last way longer. The frugal and environmental choice is almost certainly to keep going with your current car.

[littlej2455]

Thank you so much for the reply. So I have done a majority of the repairs myself from watching YouTube and purchasing slightly used parts. But I have no experience working on cars. I have a 2010 Volvo XC90. Now I know that is probably not the best choice for a car, just because of the complexity of the repairs and the cost to upkeep. I wish I would have thought more about this when we purchased the car. Luckily though, we have been fairly lucky with it so far. I have an OBD-II that helps diagnosis a lot of the issues too. Recently I have replaced the fuel injector sensor, steering wheel angle sensor, power seat module, rear brakes (I did not do this, and I know this is normal maintenance). I would say those are some of the larger things that I had to replace within the last 6 months. Thank you for the input.

[Ecky]

I have a co-worker who is a serial XC90 owner. I've seen him own 3 of them in the last 5 years and spend more money on each of them to keep them going than the entire value of my car. One caught on fire when a brake line exploded one night and threw brake fluid on a hot turbo while he was driving up a mountain to get home. A brake line can burst on any vehicle, this is not an XC90 specific issue, but it isn't going to catch fire on a turbocharger in a vehicle that doesn't have one. I don't think the AWD system has worked on any of them, and he passes state inspection each year because his brother owns a shop.

I expect the vehicles I choose are reliable and inexpensive only because they are very basic. Very little in the way of electronics - manual seats, no sunroof, no heated seats, no "infotainment" systems. They're manual transmissions, not AWD, with small engines that have no turbocharger. Lightweight, so the brakes are small, inexpensive and easy to work on. There's just not a lot that can break. As a result they're inexpensive and reliable, but I wouldn't say my minimal needs work for everyone. I'm sure he's going to buy another XC90 when his becomes more expensive than another used one, because has a lot of creature comforts and is a highly useful vehicle.

[ketchup]

I've heard Volvos in particular have gotten more complex and finicky.  I have a 2001 Volvo V70 2.4T and it's been totally fine apart from the dreaded ETM design flaw (I had to swap it out around 145k miles).  Suspension is totally shot and it's had a few generic old-car problems but it's sitting pretty at about 203,000 miles now and running like a champ.

[Car Jack]

Ecky pointed out some things I've always kept in mind.  One of the reasons we bought our 2019 Subaru Crosstrek Premium is because of the lack of things we don't want that I just consider to be things that can go wrong.  It's an uncomplicated manual transmission, has manual seats and has no sunroof.

Now, you can get even more basic with our Jeep.  It's a 2014 Wrangler and has wind up (non power) windows, to unlock it, you have to put the key in the door as there are no power locks, of course manual seats and there is no sunroof option although the panels above the driver and passenger or entire top can be removed using simple mechanical methods to keep them on. 

[littlej2455]

These are all very helpful points. Yeah, I wish I would have thought more about the purchase and the type of car before I did it. I was just happy that I was able to pay cash for the car, and did not really think about how reliable one car would be over the next. I would have to say, I have been fortunate thus far, that nothing catastrophic has occurred, knock on wood.

I agree 100% on seeing the pros of having a car with less electrical components to it, especially when all of that is what is failing on my current car. I do have to say on a positive note, it does feel great when I am able to fix a broken or non-function piece on the car. Since I have never worked on cars, I feel like I am learning a lot, even though some repairs can be very frustrating and scary (taking off an airbag and steering wheel if you have no experience).

What is your advise on keeping it and doing the repairs here and there, or purchasing a car with less electrical components and potentially less issues? I know that is a loaded question, because I feel like buying a used car you still don't know what you are going to get for at least 6 months of owning it.

[Ecky]

If it fits your needs, isn't leaving you stranded, and you enjoy the vehicle, I could see holding onto it until something truly catastrophic happens. The learning experience and feelings of accomplishment have value.

OTOH 18mpg combined (or 15mpg with the V8) is pretty abysmal from my perspective. The 3 Hondas we own deliver (conservatively) around 65mpg, 50mpg and 45mpg in our driving environment  - and none of them have less than 230,000 miles. Moving from 18mpg to 45mpg with the US average 13,500 miles per year equates to a difference of around $1250 per year in fuel at pre-Covid gas prices. Granted, the XC90 is a larger vehicle with more hauling and towing capacity, so there's opportunity cost in that. But also, as you say, the devil you know. A "new" used vehicle could be a nightmare.

[big_owl]

On my almost 20yo Subaru Wrx I have a magic number for annual repairs - $3k. If he repairs cost more than that for a given year then it's time to get a new car... Don't say your number out lout in front of the car, I've had two years in a row of $2900 repairs so clearly he's listening. 

[WSUCoug1994]

I personally think it depends on a lot of different factors.  Unfortunately, we have a 2004 truck that I drive as my primary vehicle.  We have never put more than 5,000 miles on it in one year but the transmission just went out at 155K miles.  This is a painful one - as we need the truck and we have no intentions of getting a newer one but a $4500 charge on a $12,000 truck (purchase price 4 years ago) is a tough pill to swallow.  We are going to bite the bullet and I suspect we will keep it for at least another 10+ years and now if the motor blows we will likely replace it.  That wasn't our original plan but since the motor and the tranny are the most expensive we have shifted our plans a bit.  I love this truck and I am happy to keep it until it doesn't make sense anymore.

[GoCubsGo]

I sold my DW's 10 year old GMC Acadia that was starting to cost me money.  The things that were going wrong though were basically wear and tear items (muffler rusted out, ball joints wore out, brakes, alternator, water pump, headlights).  It was driving me nuts even though deep down I knew they were things that I would be fixing for the long run. 

Then my wife got stranded at a grocery store and we had to have it towed (alternator).  She put her foot down. 

I bought a 1 year old Volvo XC90.  The thing has been to the dealer 5 times in a 1 1/2 years.  All electronic and "software" related.  I can't imagine what a nightmare this car will be out of warranty.

I'd sell the Volvo and buy a 3-5 year old mid mileage domestic model that has tons of aftermarket parts available.  Then find a solid garage in your neighborhood that can reasonably fix things when they go wrong. You get the depreciation benefit and still be in the sweet spot of being able to not have to replace wear and tear items for a few years.

[littlej2455]

These are very helpful replies, and I really do appreciate all of the feedback.

I really like the idea mentioned of keeping a budget for repairs, quiet from the car knowing! I have never really thought of this, and I think that is really handy to have. I have always had newer cars and have never really had to deal with repairs to be honest. But since I have found MMM and trying to get my finances in order, I think that is a great idea.

As for GoCubsGo, I purchased an OBD-II reader that is specific for a Volvo/Saab, and it has been very helpful in self diagnosis and repairs. Thank you again for everyone's inputs!

[K_in_the_kitchen]

We bought a used Mercedes wagon awhile back. it was a 5 year old single owner car. no accidents.  We decided it was time to get out of it when the independent mechanic we use (he also did the inspection before we bought it) laid out everything it was going to need both to fix the current issue and in the next year.

Between the Mercedes wagon and the Sprinter van motorhome, we learned an expensive lesson about Mercedes.  I don't go for a car without any electronics (I actually prefer lane assist, etc.), and I didn't buy a used car to replace the wagon, but I won't buy a luxury brand again.  When we buy a second car (we are currently 4 adults in the household, 3 drivers, sharing one small hatchback) it will be shared by the two young adults.  We're thinking about a used Nissan Leaf, but might choose a used small hatchback (gasoline) so it can be one of the a primary vehicle when one of them leaves home.  DH and I are likely to never need two vehicles for the two of us.

[alsoknownasDean]

10 years old is not too bad, but 167k miles is getting up there, particularly on something complex and finicky (would be fine on a base Corolla etc).

Would it be worth taking it to a trusted mechanic and get them to have a look at it? They'll notice stuff you won't (especially if they're familiar with the cars in question), and then at least you know where you stand. It might be fine for a couple of years, or just about to let go.

[littlej2455]

That is a good idea as well; to have someone just look it over and kind of give me an estimate of what they think the car may need soon. Thank you for the idea!