Author Topic: Concierge medicine?  (Read 1700 times)

Villanelle

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Concierge medicine?
« on: December 07, 2021, 05:11:37 PM »
I know this is probably the wrong question for the MMM crowd, butI'm trying to cast a wide net.

My parents are in their late 70s.  They are generally very healthy, but more and more small things are popping up as the parts and pieces age.  They have always been very thrifty and have more money than I can ever imagine them needing with their lifestyle, even as they allow themselves some much-deserved lifestyle creep.  Thanks to dad's military retirement (plus Medicare) they have good health insurance.  However, they are getting frustrated with dealing with bad front offices, doctors who leave practices or even the area and force them to start over with new providers, long waits for appointments, and all the usual complaints about health care  that come even if you can afford it.  Mom mentioned to me that they are considering concierge medicine.  I was shocked because, as I mentioned, they are very thrifty people and I guess I imagined that as being something for the uber rich. 

They are researching, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with this.  How does it work?  Do you pay a subscription fee, and then a fee per use?  If you need a specialist, is there any advantage that comes from your concierge (like relationships with specialists that mean they will find an opening sooner)? 

(They haven't asked me to look in to it.  But dad doesn't always seem as... savvy as he used to and he has always handled stuff like this, so I'd like to be able to gently butt in on this to try to make sure they don't get taken advantage of and that they ask the right questions before committing to anything.)

Dr Kidstache

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 06:11:01 PM »
I tried a concierge medicine physician during a period in which my health insurance wouldn't pay a penny towards my expenses anyway & I thought a concierge MD might be better at coordinating my care. YMMV but I would absolutely not recommend concierge/direct primary care. Background - I was a physician before becoming disabled so I have an educated opinion. The short version is that I think it's a model of care in which all sorts of unnecessary tests, scans, treatments, etc get done because that's what VIP patients think they want thus what drs who exist only to cater to clients provide. Overdiagnosis is real, y'all. And being treated like a VIP is not actually associated with better outcomes. It was a frequent joke, in fact, in the ERs where I worked that the patient that we got told by an admin to treat like a VIP was in big trouble. I can totally appreciate your parents' current frustration. However, I sincerely doubt that they will get better quality healthcare with a concierge doc than they can access with Medicare.

maizefolk

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 06:20:09 PM »
I think Concierge is the same as the Direct Primary Care model MMM posted about roughly a year ago if any of his description is useful:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2020/11/09/direct-primary-care/

He seems to be (or have been) a major fan.

There was also a thread here on the forum which may have some useful stuff:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/continue-the-blog-conversation/direct-primary-care-(medical)/

SimpleCycle

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 06:43:17 PM »
I did One Medical for a while.  I didn't find it any better than my regular teaching-hospital affiliated primary care practice, especially in this day and age of MyChart.

Several years ago I switched over to getting all my care from a single integrated health system that is connected to an academic medical center.  My primary care doc is part of the system, as are the few specialists I see.  If I need emergency care I go there too.  This keeps all my records and billing in one place, and their front office/call center/billing office seem to have it together better than the average small practice.

I agree with @Dr Kidstache that the concierge/direct primary care model has bad incentives, to say nothing of the incentive for the provider to drop you if you are too annoying/expensive/high needs.  I think I'd avoid it if possible.

That said, I empathize with the struggle of how broken our healthcare system can be for patients.  Especially when you have higher than average health needs.  I'd try to find a really good PCP and go from there.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2021, 06:55:02 PM »
I think Concierge is the same as the Direct Primary Care model MMM posted about roughly a year ago if any of his description is useful:

My understanding is that DPC and concierge are a little different (although easily confused) - DPC is paying a fee to have VIP access to doctors who will see you as a cash patient (no insurance accepted). Concierge is paying a fee to have VIP access to doctors who will accept you as an insured patient.

I have no experience with either, although I could certainly see how it could appeal to someone on Medicare or Medicaid with enough money to afford the fee.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2021, 06:57:12 PM »
I have no personal experience, to be clear on the perspective. I have one friend who is offering concierge medicine, and another one who uses it (a different doc/different state.)

The friend who uses it LOVES it. Her husband has a number of challenging different medical issues (he's 83; she's 58) and having a consistent doc has been a godsend. Yes, they still need to see specialists (covered under insurance) but at least the pcp is not changing every 4 months which was the case before with Medicare and doctors not opting in to taking medicare patients. When they go see the PCP, they have all the time they want. It's in addition to health insurance (the concierge doc does not accept insurance).

The friend who IS one is one because she wanted to see patients the way she wanted - with no insurance dictating the amount of time she could spend with patients, and no worries about paperwork or having to negotiate with insurance for reimbursement rates. Her practice is a set fee per annum, with no additional cost per visit. Insurance will not be billed - if you want to try to get coverage for out of network, you're welcome to file the paperwork yourself.  Any lab work or medications are extra, but she will work to send the labs to a place that's covered by your insurance if you let her know about it ahead of time.

alienbogey

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2021, 01:01:36 AM »
My parents became concierge doctor patients and really, really like/liked it (my mother has since passed).

My father is now in his mid 80's and considers it to be the best thing he's done for his health care.  The only personal experience I have is that a few months ago he had a major health event, I went down to be of help, and at his request I sat in on his post-event consult with his concierge doctor.  I was mightily impressed.

Having said that, I'm guessing that it hugely depends on the individual doctor.  Dad got really lucky in his.  The guy left a big clinic to start a concierge practice and once word got around he filled up fast. 

AMandM

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2021, 05:43:20 AM »
I have a friend who started her own DPC practice, for the same reasons SoaSS mentioned. She charges a flat fee per month that includes unlimited telehealth visits, a certain number of house calls per month, minor labs and procedures, and wholesale prices on other lab work.

I also have several friends who are her patients. They mostly have kids, so they love the house call/telehealth model. It's not a VIP practice. Neither the doc nor the patients I know are the "gimme more tests" types--if anything, the patients lean sceptical of Big Medicine. I *think* that some of them have had success getting their monthly fees counted towards their high deductibles.

So I agree that a lot depends on the doctor.

chasesfish

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2021, 06:14:43 AM »
We use concierge medicine for my wife's headache specialist.   We pay a monthly membership fee then there are some specific charges that are mainly cost reimbursements for in-office appointments if some supplies are being used.  For her, it's been incredible compared to insurance/rationed medicine.   Neurologists with a formal education in headache medicine (fellowship) are tough to come by and our experience has been two to six months between appointments.  It's just too long when things flare up and you're in intense trail and error.

When it comes to your parents, I think it'll come down to how good is the primary care physician at communicating with various specialists when they need other care.   That's where we struggle a bit now that we live in a different city than her doctor (closest specialist is 200+ miles) and the concierge doctor doesn't have a relationship with the other specialists she's referring to.   We just go into a queue and live in an area with more demand than supply on medicine due to the large influx of people.  The local medical university takes an administrative disaster to an entirely new level.

GreenSheep

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2021, 03:48:34 PM »
I've considered doing this myself. One thing I'd look into before choosing someone is whether that doctor has privileges at the hospital where you or your family member would likely be admitted if you needed hospital care. It would be comforting to know that you'd have a familiar doctor taking care of you or at least coordinating with the specialist(s) if it's outside of their scope. Seems like that used to be the norm, and there are still some (usually older) doctors who do it, but most of the time these days, you end up with a doctor you've never met taking care of you -- and likely more than one, since hospitalists usually work in shifts. They might be great doctors, and it can be good to have a fresh set of eyes on things, but especially if I'm ever in a position where I can't advocate for myself, I'd want someone who knows me from a medical perspective, and who will be listened to by other doctors as a peer, looking out for me.

Abe

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 06:50:49 PM »
As a specialist I have a few thoughts based on experience:

Get referrals before choosing one. I have seen several who have limited medical knowledge, try to boss specialists around in a vain attempt to impress their clients. Conversely some are intelligent enough to ask good questions based on their clients’ history and long-term health. The latter are appreciated, but not unique to concierge.

Make sure they are in good standing with the medical board. Many go this route due to run-in with the boards. They can be dangerous due to arrogance and lack of knowledge, with no oversight from others in a group.

If they have a side business selling potions/herbs, probably a scam.

Make sure they aren’t lying about their resume. Many ‘fellowships’ are really 1-2 month rotations with some big wig when they were residents.

Essentially you are taking on the responsibility of vetting a physician that the group or hospital would normally do (without the knowledge of what to look for). Not all are scam artists, but many are and that is why they don’t have partners.

Concierge doctors do not have special relationships that gain faster access to major medical centers. Generally their patients are a pain and we groan when we see their names pop up. They may have relationships with smaller practices, and I will set aside the ethics of this regarding access to care and/or objectivity and/or kickback schemes (illegal but do occur with some shady practices).

Bottom line: vet them carefully. Ask for specifics on their experience and if they claim any special relationships, get that confirmed.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 07:04:24 PM by Abe »

chasesfish

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2021, 10:15:57 AM »

Make sure they aren’t lying about their resume. Many ‘fellowships’ are really 1-2 month rotations with some big wig when they were residents.


I've found this out the hard way in finding the right headache specialists.  Wide latitude in what you call yourself if the goal is to just sell botox.  Our local medical university even employees a "specialist" in the field who never completed a formal fellowship.

Villanelle

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2021, 02:29:32 PM »
As a specialist I have a few thoughts based on experience:

Get referrals before choosing one. I have seen several who have limited medical knowledge, try to boss specialists around in a vain attempt to impress their clients. Conversely some are intelligent enough to ask good questions based on their clients’ history and long-term health. The latter are appreciated, but not unique to concierge.

Make sure they are in good standing with the medical board. Many go this route due to run-in with the boards. They can be dangerous due to arrogance and lack of knowledge, with no oversight from others in a group.

If they have a side business selling potions/herbs, probably a scam.

Make sure they aren’t lying about their resume. Many ‘fellowships’ are really 1-2 month rotations with some big wig when they were residents.

Essentially you are taking on the responsibility of vetting a physician that the group or hospital would normally do (without the knowledge of what to look for). Not all are scam artists, but many are and that is why they don’t have partners.

Concierge doctors do not have special relationships that gain faster access to major medical centers. Generally their patients are a pain and we groan when we see their names pop up. They may have relationships with smaller practices, and I will set aside the ethics of this regarding access to care and/or objectivity and/or kickback schemes (illegal but do occur with some shady practices).

Bottom line: vet them carefully. Ask for specifics on their experience and if they claim any special relationships, get that confirmed.

Super helpful.  Thank you.  I think my parents are fairly set on doing this, so I can pass this info along to at least help them vet the options. 

Villanelle

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2022, 03:22:35 PM »
Thought I'd follow up.  Parents went ahead with this.  It cost $1000 (I don't recall whether she said that was what they paid total for both of them, or per person.)  That essentially buys them access to "the club".  They get this guy's personal cell phone and can call 24/7 (though of course he encourages them wait for regular business hours to call about a suspicious mole, and only use that phone after hours in case of emergency). 

Appointments are super easy to get.  My mom was especially pleased that after their initial appointment, the doctor called in some refills for my dad and it was fast, and easy.  This was a major complaint with their old doc.  For refills, you had to call a specific # and, IIRC, leave a message.  Then wait.  Maybe the called it in, and maybe they didn't.  if they didn't, you just had to repeat the process.  If you called the regular office # about it, you were directed to the prescription #, even if you'd tried that and nothing had happened.  Also, their doctors were constantly leaving, and this person seems more likely to stick around since he has his own business and client list.

He did not order any additional tests, other than the typical things one would get at an annual appointment.  Dad is on the brink of needing a new knee, especially because he refuses to give up his 2x/wk tennis games, and he said the doctor definitely didn't push knee replacement.  I can't see how the doc makes money on any kind of test or procedure that isn't done by him directly, so it seems that won't be much of an issue.  My parents definitely are NOT the type to want more tests, so he isn't going to feel pressure from them to do things he feels aren't necessary. 

The doc as a limited # of patients he will take on.  For actual treatment, he bills insurance (which my parents have, x2.  Retired military insurance, plus Medicare, and they may have Medicare supplemental stuff as well?). So basically, it is a fee to become a patient of a doctor that isn't overloaded and that values customer service and has a staff trained to work hard to serve patients in a timely and effective manner.  One who isn't going to make them wait an hour past their appointment time, and who will actually return phone calls and not rush them through appointments because he's only scheduled 15 minutes per patient.  Came highly recommended from several of their friends, including one who is a retired MD.  In good standing with medical board. 

I don't know all the details, but that's what I learned.

All in all, they are thrilled and (though?) it has only been about a month.  It seems like they were careful in their selection and consider it money well spent, and I'm inclined to agree (in their case, as people in their late 70s who, while fairly healthy, do have their share of conditions, aches, and prescriptions). 

gatortator

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Re: Concierge medicine?
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2022, 03:58:07 PM »
As a specialist I have a few thoughts based on experience:

Get referrals before choosing one. I have seen several who have limited medical knowledge, try to boss specialists around in a vain attempt to impress their clients. Conversely some are intelligent enough to ask good questions based on their clients’ history and long-term health. The latter are appreciated, but not unique to concierge.

Make sure they are in good standing with the medical board. Many go this route due to run-in with the boards. They can be dangerous due to arrogance and lack of knowledge, with no oversight from others in a group.

If they have a side business selling potions/herbs, probably a scam.

Make sure they aren’t lying about their resume. Many ‘fellowships’ are really 1-2 month rotations with some big wig when they were residents.

Essentially you are taking on the responsibility of vetting a physician that the group or hospital would normally do (without the knowledge of what to look for). Not all are scam artists, but many are and that is why they don’t have partners.

Concierge doctors do not have special relationships that gain faster access to major medical centers. Generally their patients are a pain and we groan when we see their names pop up. They may have relationships with smaller practices, and I will set aside the ethics of this regarding access to care and/or objectivity and/or kickback schemes (illegal but do occur with some shady practices).

Bottom line: vet them carefully. Ask for specifics on their experience and if they claim any special relationships, get that confirmed.

Super helpful.  Thank you.  I think my parents are fairly set on doing this, so I can pass this info along to at least help them vet the options.

Agreed. This is very useful.  It is because of posts like this that I stay on the forum. Thank you Abe and op for this response and starting this topic.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!