Can You Beat These Places? Suggestions for Liberal, Mustachian eRetirement

[NYCMiniBee133]

I had posted for suggestions on a different thread that got me thinking on locations - do any of you have suggestions for a liberal location with good food and a slightly artsy/intellectual vibe that would be a good low cost of living place for a couple in their early 30's to retire and raise kiddos? My partner and I are limited to moderately into outdoor things but do love scenery. I'd prefer slightly cold to being crazy hot but can live with either. I happen to love the rain and my partner is okay with it. There is a slight chance my partner will want to continue working so if it's a city that has job prospects in computer engineering that's a plus but not necessary. And above all, safe with good public schools because we believe in having our kids go to public school.

The places we'd come up with were Belligham, WA; Austin, TX; Chicago, IL; somewhere around Denver, CO? The first two have no state income tax but high property/sales tax combos it sounds like? Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

Any suggestions that should be on the list or comments on the above? Thanks very much for your thoughts.

[NYCMiniBee133]

Also, I'm not sure eRetirement has a meaning. I swear my computer tacked that on when I hit send and I don't know how to fix it! eRetirement it is.

[iamlindoro]

The places we'd come up with were Belligham, WA; Austin, TX; Chicago, IL; somewhere around Denver, CO? The first two have no state income tax but high property/sales tax combos it sounds like? Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

An option if you like Washington is to live in or near Vancouver WA, but to dash across the bridge into Portland to do any major shopping. Thus, you get the best of both worlds-- No Income Tax where you live, no sales tax where you shop.

SO and I are considering the above (or perhaps just a move to Portland outright) once we get done w/ accumulation.

[iamlindoro]

Also, I'm not sure eRetirement has a meaning. I swear my computer tacked that on when I hit send and I don't know how to fix it! eRetirement it is.

PS, let's just coin a phrase, eRetirement = earlyRetirement ;)

[NYCMiniBee133]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

[iamlindoro]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

I think compared to Portland which is literally just across the river, it would probably seem a little more straight laced, but compared to "everywhere," it falls firmly on the liberal side of the spectrum.

Put it this way-- we're lifelong SF Bay Area dwellers and didn't feel like Vancouver was particularly conservative.  For me/us, I think we'd be looking at one of the smaller communities just outside of Vancouver (we'd like some space for animals/homesteading/etc), and would spend much of our "in the city" time in Portland, which is as you no doubt know, staunchly liberal.

[meadow lark]

Wouldn't that be cool?  I need to check it out to, although I assume it is rainy, and after living in NM I can barely deal with clouds!

[dragoncar]

Also, I'm not sure eRetirement has a meaning. I swear my computer tacked that on when I hit send and I don't know how to fix it! eRetirement it is.

PS, let's just coin a phrase, eRetirement = earlyRetirement ;)

[Mlkmn]

Since you put Chicago, I will throw out Indianapolis, specifically some of the more trendy neighborhoods like Broad Ripple, Nora, and Castleton.  Also, Carmel. They have some of the top schools in the nation. Bit higher COL than Indy, but still less than your other places. Your cost of living is going to be much, much lower than all of the cities you listed, and it isn't too much different than Chicago weather wise except no lake effect snow.

If you don't mind a smaller city, I highly recommend Bloomington, IN. It has great outdoor stuff, lots of artsy things, and is probably the most "liberal" part of the state.

There is a 7% sales tax on non-grocery items. Groceries have no sales tax.

[horsepoor]

You might look into Boise, Idaho.  The state is ultra-conservative, but the north end of Boise is pretty progressive.  COL here is very affordable (though north end houses are more than other parts of town).  Not too beastly hot in summer, we get sun in winter most of the time and the snow mostly stays in the mountains.  There is skiing, fishing, whitewater rafting, camping, etc.  We love this area.

[NYCMiniBee133]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

I think compared to Portland which is literally just across the river, it would probably seem a little more straight laced, but compared to "everywhere," it falls firmly on the liberal side of the spectrum.

Put it this way-- we're lifelong SF Bay Area dwellers and didn't feel like Vancouver was particularly conservative.  For me/us, I think we'd be looking at one of the smaller communities just outside of Vancouver (we'd like some space for animals/homesteading/etc), and would spend much of our "in the city" time in Portland, which is as you no doubt know, staunchly liberal.

Also originally from the Bay Area, also want space for animals (dogs) and homesteading. Have been reading up on raising quail for eggs. This is now definitely on the list. The other suggestions are also great ones. Will look into Indianapolis and Boise.

[markbrynn]

You were probably thinking about somewhere closer to (your current) home, but when you mentioned the criteria New Zealand came to mind.

It's cooler rather than hot.
Rains a lot in some places.
Is pretty liberal.
Is not that expensive.
Not sure how great the food is, but I had some good meals (though mostly at campsites)
Loads of nature (whether to look at or to do).
Good schools.
Artsy/cultural in the cities (Auckland, Wellington, Dunedin, Christchurch, etc.).
Generally very safe.

Have visited, would like to try living there for a couple of years to see if it works for me.

[iris lily]

Austin has very high housing costs for Texas, so be sure to check it out, not sure who is telling you it is "low cost living." And Chicago is silly expensive.

I like the suggestion of Indianapolis or what about St. Louis?

[Undecided]

The places we'd come up with were Belligham, WA; Austin, TX; Chicago, IL; somewhere around Denver, CO? The first two have no state income tax but high property/sales tax combos it sounds like? Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

An option if you like Washington is to live in or near Vancouver WA, but to dash across the bridge into Portland to do any major shopping. Thus, you get the best of both worlds-- No Income Tax where you live, no sales tax where you shop.

SO and I are considering the above (or perhaps just a move to Portland outright) once we get done w/ accumulation.

Do you advocate other criminal behavior, too, or did you forget to tell him or her to pay the WA use tax?
http://dor.wa.gov/content/findtaxesandrates/usetax/

[greaper007]

I've found that you can find your community no matter where you go in a major city.   Denver has some great neighborhoods like what you're describing, but they're starting to get pricey.   I lived off of Tennyson street in the highlands before we bought our house in the burbs.   I loved it, art, great affordable food, tattoo shops, etc.   But, a 2 bedroom house on the highway was running $250,000 and the school system still left a lot to be desired.   

I've lived everywhere, I found that even living in Florida, I could find some great funky neighborhoods.   I used to love downtown Melbourne, and I think you can still pick up some affordable housing there.   It's far enough south that it's still warm in the winter, and far enough north of the Miami jerk faces.   There's also a large airforce base down the street so that keeps housing affordable.   

Just figure out where you want to live and then find your pocket, trust me, they're there.    If you're a super sleuth you might even be able to do some real estate speculation.   Follow first, the artists, then the gays and then the yuppies into beat up downtown locals.   If you hit the artist portion of this equation you'll probably be able to quadruple your property value within a decade.

[JohnGalt]

I had posted for suggestions on a different thread that got me thinking on locations - do any of you have suggestions for a liberal location with good food and a slightly artsy/intellectual vibe that would be a good low cost of living place for a couple in their early 30's to retire and raise kiddos? My partner and I are limited to moderately into outdoor things but do love scenery. I'd prefer slightly cold to being crazy hot but can live with either. I happen to love the rain and my partner is okay with it. There is a slight chance my partner will want to continue working so if it's a city that has job prospects in computer engineering that's a plus but not necessary. And above all, safe with good public schools because we believe in having our kids go to public school.

The places we'd come up with were Belligham, WA; Austin, TX; Chicago, IL; somewhere around Denver, CO? The first two have no state income tax but high property/sales tax combos it sounds like? Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

Any suggestions that should be on the list or comments on the above? Thanks very much for your thoughts.

If you're talking about moving for retirement - you might want to do the math to see how much income tax will actually matter all that much.  In fact, it's entirely possible that you come out behind in a high property/sales tax/no income tax compared to an income tax state with no sales and low property taxes. 

[Freckles]

I live in the Portland area and was also going to suggest Portland, or Vancouver for the lower taxes option.  I know we have a 'rains all the time' reputation but it's not really true.  I think the weather here is terrific and makes for very easy living.  And you can't get much more liberal or scenic.  Not sure it's a really low cost of living but it's not as bad Chicago or NY or coastal CA.

[GuitarStv]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

If you're planning on buying a place, Vancouver is brutally expensive.  It's a nice place to live though (other than the rain).

[Trirod]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

If you're planning on buying a place, Vancouver is brutally expensive.  It's a nice place to live though (other than the rain).

I think the conversation above was about Vancouver, WA and I think you're referring to Vancouver BC.  Both great places but I think house prices in BC > WA.

[chicagomeg]

I love living in Chicago, but it's pretty lousy if you like the outdoors. There are plenty of state parks & Lake Michigan is nearby, but it's just not that exciting. I used to live in DC and we had so many great places within two hours drive. In comparison, Chicago is really lacking. Also not that many places to go nearby for a weekend getaway which is sort of frustrating.

On the plus side, there is no taxation of retirement income here, which includes 401k/IRA withdrawals as well as Social Security when you get to that point. It's a great city, I just don't know if it will check all your boxes on the outdoorsy side of things.

[gillstone]

Montana has a number of good options for communities to raise a family in.  Missoula and Helena are both fairly liberal communities.  Montana has no sales tax and a very low income tax.  The downside is that property taxes are slightly higher than the national average. 

Living in Montana is like living in a postcard, its always beautiful.  In either of those citites you are no more than 90 minutes and as little as 5 minutes from skiing, fishing, hiking, camping, etc... 

Both communities attract artists. Helena is one of the best small towns for arts, and Missoula is home to UM and its artistic programs. 

Montana schools are exceptional. Montana students consistently test in the top 10 if not top 5 in the nation. On the 2011 TIMSS test administered to OECD nations, only 4 nations scored higher than Montana students in Science and only 7 in Math.
http://lists.opi.mt.gov/newsletters/display.php?List=30&N=961

Overall state politics can lean conservative but Democrats have done very well in state-wide elections and currently hold the Governor's office, two Senate seats, and all statewide offices but Attorney General.

Its a helluva lot cheaper than Vancouver and you don't have to commute from the hinterlands if you decide to do some work on the side.

Last note, Chicago outdoors are so lousy Montana did an ad campiagn pushing for Chicagoans to visit Montana to see actual scenic areas.

[FIPurpose]

The places we'd come up with were Belligham, WA; Austin, TX; Chicago, IL; somewhere around Denver, CO? The first two have no state income tax but high property/sales tax combos it sounds like? Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

An option if you like Washington is to live in or near Vancouver WA, but to dash across the bridge into Portland to do any major shopping. Thus, you get the best of both worlds-- No Income Tax where you live, no sales tax where you shop.

SO and I are considering the above (or perhaps just a move to Portland outright) once we get done w/ accumulation.

Love it! I live in Vancouver, WA and I can say that with the people that I've met so far I'd say the political spectrum is about 50/50. It is considered one of the more rural districts of Washington so its rep. is Rep. but both Senators are Dem.

As far as housing. It's pretty cheap you should be able to pretty easily get a nice house at $100-120 per sqft. There's an Ikea right on the Oregon side of the border, so it's nice having a lot of your home improvement buys come with no sales tax. No income tax, but the property tax does run at about 1.5%. I've seen most 150,000 running a tax of about $2,200.

I'm still new to the area and I'm still renting, but I'm looking to get a house soon here. I'll probably getting one in the Camas side of town.

Portland is definitely the more liberal side of the river. Then again it's also prone to the big city corruption that a lot of big cities have problems with. I haven't gotten much into the local politics of Vancouver, but I've heard enough of Portland's to know that it's politicians aren't that different from other citys'

[Cromacster]

One place that first came to mind from your description was this location in St. Paul, dubbed Little Bohemia.  I don't live in the neighborhood, but I do spend alot of time there, as alot of my friends live in the area.  Plus they just converted the old Schmidt Brewery into artist lofts.  Pretty cool what is happening there at the moment.  There are also great deals on houses in the area, and with current development I would expect the market there to improve over time.

Cons: High property taxes for St. Paul. Income tax is relatively high in MN
Pros: No tax on food and clothes, you are blocks from the Mississippi River and a fairly large preserve along the riverfront, one of the best biking metros in the US (we are in a constant battle with Portland for that title apparently)


http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_24543227/st-pauls-west-seventh-street-verge-being-cool

[mollyjade]

Austin has very high housing costs for Texas, so be sure to check it out, not sure who is telling you it is "low cost living."

Housing costs in Austin will vary depending on how close to the city center you're willing to live. Suburbs are inexpensive, but very car dependent and farther from cultural activities. Houses in the suburbs are also likely to be big, so take cooling costs into account in the summer. Suburban houses are also more likely to have home owners' associations that require specific lawn upkeep (i.e., expensive watering bills). Public transportation is wanting. Biking within the city is very doable. You'll want to pay close attention to school zoning since schools vary greatly across the city.

[Tyler]

Austin has very high housing costs for Texas, so be sure to check it out, not sure who is telling you it is "low cost living."

Housing costs in Austin will vary depending on how close to the city center you're willing to live. Suburbs are inexpensive, but very car dependent and farther from cultural activities. Houses in the suburbs are also likely to be big, so take cooling costs into account in the summer. Suburban houses are also more likely to have home owners' associations that require specific lawn upkeep (i.e., expensive watering bills). Public transportation is wanting. Biking within the city is very doable. You'll want to pay close attention to school zoning since schools vary greatly across the city.

I live in far northwest Austin.  Great neighborhood, no HOA, top high school nearby, bus stop a 5-minute walk from my front door, bikable to stores, and houses go in the $200k range.  But we knew what we were looking for and were willing to make a few tradeoffs like being further from downtown.  It's true that many central areas can get extremely expensive.

But if you're afraid of the summer heat, Austin may not be your best choice.  ; )

[C. K.]

With www.FindYourSpot.com you plug in your particulars and the website gives you a list (and decent summaries) of places that fit your criteria.

You might find this thread of use: "How Did You Choose Your Place of Retirement?" https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-did-you-choose-your-retirement-cityplace/msg164811/#msg164811

[jasman18]

Lawrence, KS meets all of your requirements.
Housing is a little bit more expensive than Austin but all other cost of living is cheaper than other areas mentioned above. Getting around it is a LOT easier because it only has 100k people during the school year and half that when school is out for the summer. (university of Kansas)

[orcas50]

I live in the Portland area and was also going to suggest Portland, or Vancouver for the lower taxes option.  I know we have a 'rains all the time' reputation but it's not really true.  I think the weather here is terrific and makes for very easy living.  And you can't get much more liberal or scenic.  Not sure it's a really low cost of living but it's not as bad Chicago or NY or coastal CA.

No, it doesn't "rain all the time" here (I have lived in the Seattle area for 19 years) BUT it is EXTREMELY gray and overcast much of the time. By much of the time, I mean more than 200 days a year. This can wear on a person if you are used to seeing blue sky and the sun. Whenever my mom visits, she remarks that she'd go crazy if she had to live under so much cloud cover.

[GuitarStv]

Do you think the culture in Vancouver is a fit? That's a pretty appealing no sales tax no income tax combo!

If you're planning on buying a place, Vancouver is brutally expensive.  It's a nice place to live though (other than the rain).

I think the conversation above was about Vancouver, WA and I think you're referring to Vancouver BC.  Both great places but I think house prices in BC > WA.

Haha, whoops!  Yes, my mistake.

[Thegoblinchief]

Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the rest of the thread, but this is a showstopper. In what universe is a 10% sales tax "okay"? Holy crap!

[adesertsky]

Another Chicagoan here (well, NW suburbs).  This city is crazy expensive.

The culture and history are incredible but Chicago is definitely lacking in scenery.  There are many parks/preserves but they are NOTHING compared to anything west of the Mississippi (I grew up in So Cal- quite a difference). 

My property taxes on a 1250 sq foot home in a blue collar community nearish to the city are $6500/yr!  Even if I pay off my house, I still have to pay >$500/mo for the privilege of living here?  I am almost definitely leaving when I hit FI because the property taxes alone will mean working years more than I want.  There is also the whole 10% sales tax thing and the state is MASSIVELY in debt and isn't even close to being able to fulfill its pension liabilities so who knows what'll happen down the line. 

I'm also considering Vancouver as well as Pittsburgh (my husband's homeland).

[Grateful Stache]

Denver has some great neighborhoods like what you're describing, but they're starting to get pricey.

Yes, Denver is getting quite pricey these days. Definitely would not meet the criteria for 'low cost of living.'

[NYCMiniBee133]

Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the rest of the thread, but this is a showstopper. In what universe is a 10% sales tax "okay"? Holy crap!

In a world where the only two places I've lived are SF and NYC - 10% sales tax and almost that as the highest marginal income tax, with high property taxes to boot. Don't forget coop fees in NYC. All that makes 10% sales tax okay. It's very sad. I wouldn't believe it if I weren't living it!

[Mlkmn]

Chicago and Denver area have a flat income tax rate which is doable and okay sales and property tax.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the rest of the thread, but this is a showstopper. In what universe is a 10% sales tax "okay"? Holy crap!

In a world where the only two places I've lived are SF and NYC - 10% sales tax and almost that as the highest marginal income tax, with high property taxes to boot. Don't forget coop fees in NYC. All that makes 10% sales tax okay. It's very sad. I wouldn't believe it if I weren't living it!

You have think about what you are going to buy too. You may find you don't purchase a lot of stuff that is actually taxed, so property/income taxes are going to be more important than sales.

Moving from Indiana to Tennessee was a shock for us when we went to buy groceries and paid 7% tax instead of 0%. COL was higher, pay was lower. So we moved back. Great scenery though!

You might want to check out Wyoming. We are strongly considering moving there in a couple years because they have no income tax and very lower property taxes. 4% sales tax and 0% tax on food. I just hope a bunch of New Yorkers don't get the same idea and decide to try to make it another New York nanny state! ;)

[iris lily]

Lawrence, KS meets all of your requirements.
Housing is a little bit more expensive than Austin but all other cost of living is cheaper than other areas mentioned above. Getting around it is a LOT easier because it only has 100k people during the school year and half that when school is out for the summer. (university of Kansas)

Everyone loves Lawrence! I'd put in a bid for Iowa City, too, a great University town. The OP seems to want a bigger town, but I don't know why.

[ASquared]

You might look into Boise, Idaho.  The state is ultra-conservative, but the north end of Boise is pretty progressive.  COL here is very affordable (though north end houses are more than other parts of town).  Not too beastly hot in summer, we get sun in winter most of the time and the snow mostly stays in the mountains.  There is skiing, fishing, whitewater rafting, camping, etc.  We love this area.

I'm from Boise and would love to live there some day!  But I wouldn't consider it affordable - wages are incredibly low compared to anywhere else, prop taxes are insane, state tax sure isn't low......no clue what Idaho is doing with all that money!  Such a beautiful place though, especially for doing outdoor stuff:)

[pdxvandal]

As a Boise native and Portland resident, I have a few observations.

Boise is a great place to live, however, it is the most remote city, in terms of it being close to a major metro area. It's a little isolating and people who live there tend to get a "Center of the Universe" mentality. And it's very Mormon-heavy, meaning just as much as Salt Lake City. I had many Mormon friends, but it will dominate Idaho politics and sometimes your daily life. If you're conservative, you probably won't mind. I was born and raised there, stayed in-state for college (but not in Boise), but had ZERO desire to return there for living. But overall, it's a good place to raise a family, has better public schools than Portland and a plethora of outdoor activities. The people are far nicer in Boise and strangers do say hello. Not so much in Portland.

Boise has very hot summers (think 90-105 most days in July/August) and winters can be sunny, but the city gets locked into an inversion for weeks at a time, typically in December and January. In fact, Portland has had far more sunshine this winter than Boise, which isn't common, but don't believe Boise is always sunny. It ain't. And it's really brown and arid when you compare it to Portland. But if that's your thing, go for it.  I love the green of Portland and the lack of ice and snow (except for this week's snowpocalypse). The summers in Portland can't be beat anywhere. Unless you hate 85 degrees, sunny, green and few bugs.

Portland has a much better food and arts scene, if you care, as well as major pro sports like the Blazers and Timbers. And if you want your NFL or baseball fix, drive a few hundred miles to Seattle. Boise has "Boise State University" which is a mediocre commuter school with a good football program. Portland has just so many more options than Boise. But if you don't get out much, it won't matter.

That being said, I think Vancouver could be a good choice if you have the opportunity not to travel to PDX during rush hours (a terrible, terrible fate). It's certainly one of my options, if I reach FI and want to stay in the area, to move to Vantucky for lower taxes and a more quiet lifestyle with Portland's attractions nearby. Downtown Vancouver, albeit a little underachieving, has shops and restaurants and bars. It will continue to get better and better.

Both cities are good places to be, although I would take Portland every time. Good luck!

[sol]

do the math to see how much income tax will actually matter all that much.  In fact, it's entirely possible that you come out behind in a high property/sales tax/no income tax compared to an income tax state with no sales and low property taxes.

Seconded. For frugal folks sales tax doesn't add up to much and property taxes can be a killer if you own land, regardless of the size of your house.  And I expect income tax rates to be completely inconsequential in my retirement, when I have near zero income. 

My ideal tax structure in retirement is a super high income tax, a moderate sales tax, and no property tax.  Because I intend to own property, not buy very much, and not have any income.

[Unique User]

I have a good friend from grad school who lives in the Raleigh/Durham area and seems to like it.  He's an Evergreen grad and a professor, about as liberal as they come.  HIs kids are in a great public school with amazing programs -- I'm tempted to move there just for those!

Exactly what I was going to suggest!  We used to live in the Carolinas, right now Raleigh and Nashville are our two top spots for our next relo. 

I'm a Chicago native and currently live in St Louis, I would recommend St Louis over Chicago.  Less expensive, lots of outdoorsy stuff and family friendly activities. 

[jnik]

Bellingham's not bad. I had a family member live there for several years and she liked it. A bit "gritty."

Other places to consider would be Ames, IA; Albuquerque, NM (although you'd have to get over your love of clouds); seacoast region of New Hampshire, Bangor/Orono, ME, Northampton, MA. (Yes, I said Mass...you have to look at your tax situation in some detail between property, income, consumption etc. and MA isn't automatically taxachusetts.) Really any "second city" is worth a look, based on your preferences. Maybe Madison?

[horsepoor]

You might look into Boise, Idaho.  The state is ultra-conservative, but the north end of Boise is pretty progressive.  COL here is very affordable (though north end houses are more than other parts of town).  Not too beastly hot in summer, we get sun in winter most of the time and the snow mostly stays in the mountains.  There is skiing, fishing, whitewater rafting, camping, etc.  We love this area.

I'm from Boise and would love to live there some day!  But I wouldn't consider it affordable - wages are incredibly low compared to anywhere else, prop taxes are insane, state tax sure isn't low......no clue what Idaho is doing with all that money!  Such a beautiful place though, especially for doing outdoor stuff:)

Huh?  We bought a 3,000 sf house on almost half an acre for $180 k and prop taxes are 1200 - prop tax hack = living just outside city limits. Food and utility prices are lower than most of the country.  State taxes aren't super low but shouldn't be too big of a bite for a FIRE mustashian.

[MandyM]

There is a little town in Kentucky called Berea. Its very artsy and liberal (especially for rural KY) and low COL. I can't speak for the schools, but I'm guessing there aren't a lot of CE job opportunities. Beautiful scenery, the amenities of Lexington only an hour away. I doubt anyone would just randomly pick this location - but its a hidden gem worth a mention.

The panhandle of FL is favorite of mine, with pockets of art and music if you look (South Walton, Pensacola). Beautiful weather, good food, friendly people and some of the best beaches (and underrated) in the US. Low COL, unless you want a beachfront home in a hot spot.

[NYCMiniBee133]

So for our situations the below are ranked in order of importance:

- Income Tax. We will probably have to pay out a fair bit here. My SO is planning to work for longer than me.
- Property Tax
-Sales Tax

I  may have to give Wyoming another shot - I had never thought of it as a liberal place but I'm sure there are pockets. My SO is not as into rain/clouds as I am so we may end up somewhere fairly sunny. There were some other really great suggestions which have fairly high income tax brackets which we won't be able to make work but otherwise look really wonderful. Thanks guys for the suggestions.

[Cpa Cat]

Well, I live in Lawrence, KS - and it's not where I want to retire. Lawrence is a fine city. It has outrageously good restaurants that are very reasonable. It has a nice vibe.

But if you're liberal-minded, Kansas politics can be oppressive and embarassing.

Shopping is awful. You're generally driving to Kansas City (1 hour) or ordering online. The closest Costco is 45 minutes. The airport is 1 hour (but one of the easiest/least crowded airports ever to exist). Wages are below the KS average - so don't come here to work unless you're self-employed. Sales tax in Lawrence is between 9-10% (certain districts have an additional 1% charge for developer fees) - total, including state/local.

Property taxes aren't horrible, but they're not fantastic either - and the city is constantly increasing them for ridiculous-seeming expenditures.

Pros of living here:
Damn, it's cheap. Property is very affordable. People in Topeka (30 mins away) complain that Lawrence is expensive - but expensive is relative. Expensive for Kansas, maybe - which is cheap for the rest of the country.

Income tax in KS is low. It's practically non-existant for self-employment income.

It's moderately bike friendly - and making improvements. A city-wide recycling program has been approved and will be implemented soon.

EDIT: So I forgot the biggest CON of all. The Summers are wretched. Be ready for MONTHS of 100F+ in the Summer with 100% humidity. This is, by far, the biggest con of living in Lawrence, KS. If you come here, buy a house with a pool and suck up that water bill. You ain't biking to the grocery store in July-September. You risk death from heat-stroke.

[MDM]

If you can get "good food and a slightly artsy/intellectual vibe that would be a good low cost of living place for a couple in their early 30's to retire and raise kiddos...outdoor things...scenery...job prospects in computer engineering...and above all, safe with good public schools" - do you really care what political party gets the most votes from people living within a few miles of you?

[gillstone]

So for our situations the below are ranked in order of importance:

- Income Tax. We will probably have to pay out a fair bit here. My SO is planning to work for longer than me.
- Property Tax
-Sales Tax

I  may have to give Wyoming another shot - I had never thought of it as a liberal place but I'm sure there are pockets. My SO is not as into rain/clouds as I am so we may end up somewhere fairly sunny. There were some other really great suggestions which have fairly high income tax brackets which we won't be able to make work but otherwise look really wonderful. Thanks guys for the suggestions.

Seriously, there are no blue pockets in Wyoming.  However just north of Wyoming is a state with a income tax that tops at 6.9%, no sales tax and a relatively high but livable property tax.  In addition, that state has some of the best schools in the country and some solid artsy intellectual communities all near awesome recreation. 

Wyoming is like New Jersey - its largely populated by people who couldn't find some way to escape.

[ASquared]

You might look into Boise, Idaho.  The state is ultra-conservative, but the north end of Boise is pretty progressive.  COL here is very affordable (though north end houses are more than other parts of town).  Not too beastly hot in summer, we get sun in winter most of the time and the snow mostly stays in the mountains.  There is skiing, fishing, whitewater rafting, camping, etc.  We love this area.

I'm from Boise and would love to live there some day!  But I wouldn't consider it affordable - wages are incredibly low compared to anywhere else, prop taxes are insane, state tax sure isn't low......no clue what Idaho is doing with all that money!  Such a beautiful place though, especially for doing outdoor stuff:)

Huh?  We bought a 3,000 sf house on almost half an acre for $180 k and prop taxes are 1200 - prop tax hack = living just outside city limits. Food and utility prices are lower than most of the country.  State taxes aren't super low but shouldn't be too big of a bite for a FIRE mustashian.

Ah ha - there you go.  Outside city limits.  You can triple (or more??) you taxes in city.  To each their own - I don't want to live all the way out there, like access to the city, less commuting etc.  NE/SE Boise is where it's at.  Landlocked - not expanding, beautiful and still some character (as oppossed to the West end neverending expansion!)  Whatever works for you!

And now you have a TJ's - so groceries just got a lot cheaper:)

[plantingourpennies]

Also originally from the Bay Area, also want space for animals (dogs) and homesteading. Have been reading up on raising quail for eggs. This is now definitely on the list. The other suggestions are also great ones. Will look into Indianapolis and Boise.

This made me think of Bisbee, AZ.  A veritable liberal oasis in Southern Arizona.  Small town, 1 mile in elevation, so weather doesn't get extremely hot the way it's nearest major city (Tucson, 2 hrs away) would get in the summer.  You can probably find plenty of wild quail there, too. 

It is a small town, though.  Sierra Vista isn't too far away, so not sure about schooling.  More research would be required there. 

[Tyler]

If you can get "good food and a slightly artsy/intellectual vibe that would be a good low cost of living place for a couple in their early 30's to retire and raise kiddos...outdoor things...scenery...job prospects in computer engineering...and above all, safe with good public schools" - do you really care what political party gets the most votes from people living within a few miles of you?

+1

I think feeling a sense of community is important so I don't discount politics altogether.  But as someone who has lived in both California and Texas (pretty much at complete opposite ends of the political spectrum), I can absolutely vouch for the fact that opening your mind beyond pure party politics is a healthy and rewarding exercise.  I always found it funny how many people in both states have built caricatures of the "other" side in their head that are completely off base from reality.  Just my two cents -- Make friends based on who they are, not who they vote for and especially not what you assume that means about them.  Perpetuating a personal political bubble is intellectually unhealthy. 

FWIW (back to the spirit of the OP), that's one thing I like about Austin.  It's a liberal city in a conservative state with a net Libertarian mentality.  I've found you can have genuine, unheated conversations about politics here which is actually a nice change from other places I've lived (Looking at you, San Francisco).  And if you're active in politics you can always find a cause to support regardless of your affiliation. 

[dude]

Shout out for Somerville, MA -- right next to Cambridge, 5 minutes from Boston.  Some areas in Somerville (particularly Davis Square) are among the hottest real estate markets in the area, others are still up and coming with great deals to still be had (mostly on condos, which are primarily 2-3 unit buildings).  Ball Square will get the Green Line T extension in a few years, and will be super-hot as well.  Other areas like Winter Hill and West Somerville are coming around.  Union Square as well. I don't need to go into all the amenities (cultural, educational, entertainment, outdoor rec, etc) the city of Boston and its environs has to offer, except to say that it's second to none as far as large cities in America go.  Somerville residents get a 30% tax break on their personal residence property taxes after one year of residence.  I pay @$2800/year on a half mil or so place.  Other taxes (gas, sales, etc) are not nearly as bad as NYC (or CT).  For retirees, MA does not currently tax pension or Social Security income.

Other NE options are Portsmouth, NH; Portland, ME; and Bangor, ME.