Can anyone tell me about Seattle? (Or Long Island??)

[Metalcat]

There's a chance I might end up in Seattle in a few years for awhile for a residency. I know absolutely nothing about Seattle beyond having been a fan of Frasier.

There's also a smaller chance I may end up in Long Island, but despite knowing nothing about Seattle, I feel like I would like it a lot better than Long Island. Plus I've never lived in the west and that might be a fun adventure.

So, what can you tell me about Seattle or Long Island??

I'm Canadian, so assume I understand literally nothing about living in either area.
-I would perhaps be on my own for at least one year (DH might join for one year) and prefer living with roommates, so I'm not too concerned about cost of housing
-I wouldn't likely have a car and would aim to live walking distance from campus
-Winter in both areas would be a joke for me. Actually, so would summer, I come from a place of extreme temperatures.
-I would have US employer provided health insurance
-Income during the program would be about 60K and I would have no need to save any of it, so I feel like this should be plenty to live on?

So what do I need to know???

[kay02]

My cousin lives in Seattle and loves it but her house was 600k! And it's not even fancy at all.  But she and her husband make a lot of money.  They only have one car and don't use it much.

[Metalcat]

My cousin lives in Seattle and loves it but her house was 600k! And it's not even fancy at all.  But she and her husband make a lot of money.  They only have one car and don't use it much.

Houses where I live also cost 600K, so that doesn't seem overly expensive to me.

[Sailor Sam]

I've lived in Seattle for a total of 5 years, over the last 1.5 decades.

I would say the key to Seattle is making sure you can meet a majority of your daily needs within ~2 miles of your house. When I lived a mile away from work, life was beautiful; when I needed to commute a whopping 7 miles the traffic made life a complete bitch. It's also good to know that moving north-south is much easier than moving east-west, due to the way the arterials are laid out. I found the mass transit system to be phenomenal, particularly downtown and around UW, though buses also get stuck in traffic.

The other thing to know is that Seattle is a city in transition. Prior to Google and Amazon, it was a small and grubby working city with a traffic problem. Post Google and Amazon, it's character has shifted. Its far slicker, but the rising tide has not lifted all boats; there is a huge homeless population, and many marginal households are constantly on edge. The city is at the forefront of America's increasing wealth gap, and despite Seattle's very liberal gestalt it remains an American city; policy leans more bootstraps and blame than deft and compassionate.

I found the Seattle freeze was real. People were nice, but not friendly. Though, I admit my wearing a military uniform may have skewed who responded to my overtures. Despite the struggle to make friends, I could always fall back on the mind bendingly beautiful scenery. I learned to anticipate any day the "mountains was out."

[ctuser1]

Seattle has a reputation for being depressing:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/seattle-area/1981220-why-seattle-said-have-high-rate.html

But I have friends who work for Microsoft near Seattle. They liked it there.

Long Island is close to where I live, and is very similar to CT. It's what is "normal" for me, so I don't know if I can describe it without any biases! Expensive houses, weird mix of snooty people (that is New England influence) and aggressive/rude ones (that is New York for you), very good civic amenities and upkeep (e.g. Compared to Canada - based only on my experience of travelling there - you will be surprised how fast snow is plowed off the streets) in the suburbs while the city (NYC in this case) is comparatively funding starved etc. etc.

Personally I'd prefer LI. I can't stand so much rain.

[FIFoFum]

I have lived in both and currently live in the greater Seattle metro area. Recommend Seattle. Highly do not recommend Long Island.

Long Island is very car dependent, much more so than Seattle. There are areas in Seattle that are better or worse served by public transit, but you'll have options to live near work and be car-free. There are very few areas in Long Island that are designed to be car-less, and even in those, you may find yourself frequently needing help for "last miles" to destinations (on roads that are not biking or walking friendly).

COLA won't differ that much from one to the other. 60K for a single individual is easily doable (I have done it on far less) & with roommates/sharing housing and no car, you'd probably struggle to spend more. You may want to look into taxes, if 60K is gross. NY has state income taxes, WA does not.

My two biggest reasons for preferring Seattle over LI:

(1) Seattle is filled with parks and other nature-based areas to walk or trek. It's also very dog-friendly (a must for me). LI nature requires more driving to get to, even if the parks there are lovely (though many are not even dog-on-leash friendly!).

(2) Culturally, LI is very consumerist and materialistic compared to Seattle. People LI are more likely to wear "nicer" clothes, have newer SUVs, and talk about it a lot. There are a lot of affluent areas in both, but the way people spend and talk about money differs. In Seattle, it's much easier to find and connect with MMM and other frugal/socially conscious FI people. These are generalizations but based in some truth.

The biggest downside for the PNW vs. east coast is that it's hard in Seattle to make new friends, especially closer friends. It's called the "seattle freeze," and it's culturally legit. However, LI isn't always that much better for friendliness. If you don't have kids doing the same competitive sports and rat race-y things as your neighbors, you likely will also have to do a bit extra work on this. It's not exactly the same as living in NYC directly. Either way, you have to find your way into the community through a religion, hobby, or other activity. In residency, you may not care anyway (with no time for it & peers as social group).

 

[Metalcat]

Re: friends
I'm not overly concerned, people being cold and unfriendly has never held me back from making friends. I don't take much personally, so it's a lot easier to break through to people who have their guard up.

Also yes, I will be very busy, but also probably spending a lot of time with people in the department too, so will basically have built in friends to a degree.

I feel like I would fit culturally better in Seattle, but I am also very comfortable with not fitting in. I spend most of my time with high earners who talk about their spending a lot as it is, this wouldn't be much of a change for me if the Long Island folks are like that in general. I wouldn't want it long term, but it's only for 2 years.

The need to drive in Long Island is definitely a turn off, that's for sure. I really, really don't want to have to own a car. At most I would like an e-bike. Access to parks and nature is a big deal too, and it sounds like that might require a car in LI.

That said, this may not be a choice in the end, there are only two spots per year at each program, so I'll get what I get if I get it, and if I decide to go at all.

[lhamo]

I am a native Seattlite (well, technically I grew up in rural east King County but I figure that is close enough) been back here since 2015 after stints in NYC (late 1999-early 2002) and China (2002-2015). 

If by "campus" you mean the UW, housing close in can be quite grotty (student rental market) or expensive.  Avoid the areas immediately north of campus -- my son had a rental a few blocks down the hill from the "greek" district but still found that the party atmosphere spilled over in undesirable ways.  Things are much calmer if you are on the west side of I-5 (Wallingford/Fremont, though the latter has a lot of tech dude/bro type party culture of its own) or the East side of 25th Ave NE (north of U village). 

If you are open to biking or taking the light rail your housing options will be broader.  I live about 6 miles north of campus just off the Burke Gilman trail -- bike or bus both take about 30 minutes (I am a slow rider) with pretty regular service except late at night.  The northgate extension of the light rail system will open in 2021 and make the neighborhoods around Roosevelt and Northgate stations a 10-15 minute ride from campus.  Capitol HIll is a good option southbound if you want a more urban feel.

[Metalcat]

I am a native Seattlite (well, technically I grew up in rural east King County but I figure that is close enough) been back here since 2015 after stints in NYC (late 1999-early 2002) and China (2002-2015). 

If by "campus" you mean the UW, housing close in can be quite grotty (student rental market) or expensive.  Avoid the areas immediately north of campus -- my son had a rental a few blocks down the hill from the "greek" district but still found that the party atmosphere spilled over in undesirable ways.  Things are much calmer if you are on the west side of I-5 (Wallingford/Fremont, though the latter has a lot of tech dude/bro type party culture of its own) or the East side of 25th Ave NE (north of U village). 

If you are open to biking or taking the light rail your housing options will be broader.  I live about 6 miles north of campus just off the Burke Gilman trail -- bike or bus both take about 30 minutes (I am a slow rider) with pretty regular service except late at night.  The northgate extension of the light rail system will open in 2021 and make the neighborhoods around Roosevelt and Northgate stations a 10-15 minute ride from campus.  Capitol HIll is a good option southbound if you want a more urban feel.

Thank you for this.

I would be at the medical clinic, which I have no idea if that's close to the regular university campus or not. Back when I was in Montreal, the main university was a bit away from the medical campus and there were apartment buildings nearby which were almost exclusively occupied by medical folks of some sort. I figure there's probably something like that nearby.

I am definitely interested in a more urban experience, so thanks for the info, I'll have to start researching Capitol Hill area. I'm not opposed to public transit if it works well, and without a real winter, biking might be a great option.

[lhamo]

The main hospital (which is attached to the medical school building) is right next to the main campus and adjacent to the currently operating University light rail station.  But UW Medicine also has Harborview (which is the county hospital/main trauma center for the region and also has many of the specialized clinics, located on First Hill) and what used to be called Northwest Hospital (which is just NW of the Northgate area) in its network.  Plus lots of primary care clinics spread out around the region.

[Metalcat]

The main hospital (which is attached to the medical school building) is right next to the main campus and adjacent to the currently operating University light rail station.  But UW Medicine also has Harborview (which is the county hospital/main trauma center for the region and also has many of the specialized clinics, located on First Hill) and what used to be called Northwest Hospital (which is just NW of the Northgate area) in its network.  Plus lots of primary care clinics spread out around the region.

From what I can tell, it's the main hospital.

The LI campus would be Stony Brook.

[TrMama]

Have you been to Vancouver? The only time I've spent in Seattle, I walked around thinking, "Wow, this place is just like Vancouver."

[Metalcat]

Have you been to Vancouver? The only time I've spent in Seattle, I walked around thinking, "Wow, this place is just like Vancouver."

Nope, never. Never been to the west side of this continent at all. That's part of why I'm more interested in Seattle, it would give me a chance to really explore around there.

[Paul der Krake]

UW has a million facilities. In three years living in Seattle I've gone to maybe 5 separate locations for various tests and specialties. Find out which one you will be working from, and which one(s) you could end up having to go to on a regular basis. I'd avoid First Hill proper even if you end up working there, because the sound of ambulance sirens is a 24/7 affair.

Budget about 2k for rent if you want to be in the city. A bit less for older buildings (but good luck getting into one as a newcomer), a bit more for the newer ones. You should want to be in the city, because frankly the cost savings of being further away are absolutely not worth it.

There are tons of medical professionals in Seattle because:
1) it's the only large city in a big region and people travel from far away to see specialists there
2) it's a desirable place to live if you're an educated white collar worker

Ideally do a recon trip first, and don't plan on finding a place immediately. Whatever image you currently have of the city in your head from looking at a map and pictures, I guarantee you it is not that.

[FIFoFum]

From what I can tell, it's the main hospital.

The LI campus would be Stony Brook.

I suspected that it was Stony Brook. It's a really nice area in LI, and the campus itself is nice. But it is absolutely NOT designed for a car-less adult. It's an excellent commuter university.

[Metalcat]

From what I can tell, it's the main hospital.

The LI campus would be Stony Brook.

I suspected that it was Stony Brook. It's a really nice area in LI, and the campus itself is nice. But it is absolutely NOT designed for a car-less adult. It's an excellent commuter university.

Can you explain this to me? I've never lived anywhere that particularly required a car, I don't even really understand the concept.

[Metalcat]

UW has a million facilities. In three years living in Seattle I've gone to maybe 5 separate locations for various tests and specialties. Find out which one you will be working from, and which one(s) you could end up having to go to on a regular basis. I'd avoid First Hill proper even if you end up working there, because the sound of ambulance sirens is a 24/7 affair.

Budget about 2k for rent if you want to be in the city. A bit less for older buildings (but good luck getting into one as a newcomer), a bit more for the newer ones. You should want to be in the city, because frankly the cost savings of being further away are absolutely not worth it.

There are tons of medical professionals in Seattle because:
1) it's the only large city in a big region and people travel from far away to see specialists there
2) it's a desirable place to live if you're an educated white collar worker

Ideally do a recon trip first, and don't plan on finding a place immediately. Whatever image you currently have of the city in your head from looking at a map and pictures, I guarantee you it is not that.

I have no image of the city at all in any way shape or form...other than what I've seen in Frasier.

I know no one who lives there or has ever lived there.

I probably will be at the main hospital as my program is not really a hands on patient care program, so there would be no need to rotate through various clinics. I don't know for sure though, the program website isn't overly detailed on that front.

I'll find all this out over time though, the earliest I would start is late 2022.

[jim555]

You will definitely need a car at Stony Brook.  Suffolk county is very spread out and designed for cars.

[FiveSigmas]

A few random thoughts:

Seattle has a pretty active cycling community that is politically active, so we generally get more than our fair share of infrastructure improvements.

We also pour a ton of money into public transit, and in some places it shows. The light rail is quite good, as long as you're going where it goes, and the bus system fills in most of the rest (and with frequent service -- popular routes can run every 5-10 minutes or so). As bonus, most busses are also fitted with bike racks. The University District has good access to both rail and bus. COVID is almost certain to cause severe cutbacks to the system, though.

As you already surmised, Seattle weather will be a lot more temperate than what you're used to. It normally snows about 2-3 times a year (at which time the entire city shuts down in a panic), and you can probably leave behind your down jacket (unless you plan to go skiing, which I've heard is pretty good around here -- I have no personal knowledge). The rain-shadow effect is real, and we do get a lot of cloud-cover and drizzle for 8 months of the year, but summers and early autumns are gorgeous, with temperatures rarely reaching 90 degrees. One side-effect is that most non-brand-new buildings don't have air conditioning. The one caveat is that we've been badly hit with wild-fire smoke the past few years, and have periodically suffered some of the worst air quality in the nation world.

Hiking/mountaineering is fantastic. We're right along the Pacific Crest trail, and there are many terrific day hikes within a 2 hour drive. There's even a bus system that will get you to a few of the most popular trailheads (we'll see if it survives the Pandemic budget crisis). Of course, that also means that the more popular trails can get quite crowded on weekends and holidays.

Not strictly relevant to living here, but if you plan on taking a trip out to scope things out, there are a number of threads regarding things to do (e.g. here, here and here).

P.S. Seattle also has periodic MMMeetups (at least it did in the before times), which tend to gather a good crowd. There are a surprising number of walrus stashes around here, and it can be fun to put faces to screen names. As Sailor Sam pointed out, the Seattle Freeze is real, but the meet-ups can help a bit.

[lhamo]

Not sure if it is offensive to mention another non-MMM resource, but the local ChooseFI group also used to have a lot of in-person meetups and has a fairly active FB group that is a good place to ask questions of financially savvy folks.  Might also check in there a few months before you arrive to see if anyone has a rental coming open -- house hacking is pretty common here because housing is so expensive.

I keep a pretty close eye on the property market in the zip codes surrounding the university so if/when you get to the active searching phase I'd be happy to look at listings you are interested in and point out possible pluses/minuses, like when something fronts on a busy/noisy street, or is next to or across from a fire station, or just general comments on pricing.

[Metalcat]

Not sure if it is offensive to mention another non-MMM resource, but the local ChooseFI group also used to have a lot of in-person meetups and has a fairly active FB group that is a good place to ask questions of financially savvy folks.  Might also check in there a few months before you arrive to see if anyone has a rental coming open -- house hacking is pretty common here because housing is so expensive.

I keep a pretty close eye on the property market in the zip codes surrounding the university so if/when you get to the active searching phase I'd be happy to look at listings you are interested in and point out possible pluses/minuses, like when something fronts on a busy/noisy street, or is next to or across from a fire station, or just general comments on pricing.

Oh excellent, if/when the time comes I will absolutely get in touch. This is exactly the kind of resources/help I'll need if I end up there.

Okay, so it looks like I can easily pull off not having a car in Seattle, but I'll basically have to get a car for LI. Lame, but not the end of the world.

That opens up a lot more of LI, where would the LI folks recommend living if I have a car and work at Stony Brook hospital?

[msbutterbean]

Not only is Long Island car-centric, it is *not* bike friendly. I'm a long-time transplant from a midwestern town where I had a rail trail outside my front door, and I never bike anymore because the roads aren't built for it and the drivers aren't either. I miss it desperately, though we've replaced it with kayaking, which is easy along the north shore water that's near the university.

Beaches are nice, access to NYC is nice. There are a decent number of parks but Lyme infections are inevitable, so be wary if you have any issues with antibiotics. It's also fun to have a lot of different places to go along the corridor for weekend trips, but getting off the island requires that you drive through NYC or pay for a ferry to bypass.

If politics is a factor for you, keep in mind that though New York is a blue state, Long Island is a red zone. Bright red. The university keeps the immediate area blue-ish, but for me the 2016 election was a real eye opener even within the neighborhoods around the school.

This region is also very insular. A good portion of the population stays in the neighborhoods where they grew up, and I have several acquaintances who even purchased their childhood homes from their parents. There can be great benefits to multi-generational communities, but I've encountered a lot of small-mindedness, too, from people who have never explored much.

It has worked OK for the child-rearing phase of my life, but I am definitely looking forward to leaving in a few years when the kids are done with high school.

[Metalcat]

Inevitable Lyme infections? Insular red zones? Anti-bike roads?

Man, LI is sounding more appealing by the minute...

In all seriousness though, I'm pretty comfortable among most types of people. 2 years might be a stretch to be surrounded by intensely right wing folks, but it would also be an easy regular flight back to eastern Canada as well from LI, not so much from Seattle.

Getting Lyme would suck though, is it really that rampant?

[msbutterbean]

I'm sorry if that sounded like a rant. There is a lot to like about L.I., it really is a beautiful place. But if you prioritize biking and local hiking, it's challenging. And yes, Lyme is a scourge if you plan to use the parks and trails. I very rarely use the wooded parks anymore for that reason (and we still have had 3 cases in my household in the past 18 months). But the beaches and water can be a great alternative. There's kayaking, as I mentioned, and plenty of sailing, surfing, paddleboarding, etc. Plus some lovely destinations out east for day tripping.

[Metalcat]

I'm sorry if that sounded like a rant. There is a lot to like about L.I., it really is a beautiful place. But if you prioritize biking and local hiking, it's challenging. And yes, Lyme is a scourge if you plan to use the parks and trails. I very rarely use the wooded parks anymore for that reason (and we still have had 3 cases in my household in the past 18 months). But the beaches and water can be a great alternative. There's kayaking, as I mentioned, and plenty of sailing, surfing, paddleboarding, etc. Plus some lovely destinations out east for day tripping.

It didn't sound like a rant, this is exactly the kind of info I'm after.

I'm would love to be a water sports person, but my rotator cuff is holding on by a thread, so I'm not allowed :(
I'm actually very injured, so my activities are pretty limited to walking/hiking and gentle biking.

Where I live is famous for its hundreds of miles of walking/bike path, so it's not a huge deal if I live without that for a year or two. Besides, I'll be very, very busy.

Biking was a priority because I really didn't want a car, but if I have to have one, then that's fine, although traffic sounds atrocious there. Is that a feature on LI, or more when trying to get to NYC? Like, could one expect traffic driving to and from work around Stony Brook??

I despise daily commuter traffic, like really loathe it and would rather pay a fortune to live in a crappy place to be able to walk to work.

I do love being by water, so that's a nice feature of LI.

[jim555]

If politics is a factor for you, keep in mind that though New York is a blue state, Long Island is a red zone. Bright red. The university keeps the immediate area blue-ish, but for me the 2016 election was a real eye opener even within the neighborhoods around the school.

I would call Suffolk reddish, Nassau used to be red, but it is blue to purple now.  Suffolk always has an almost ruralish feel to it compared to Nassau which is super suburban.

[LWYRUP]

If the zombie apocalypse comes and you are in Long Island, you will need to get through zombie infested Manhattan in order to try to reach safety in the countryside. 

There is a point behind the absurdity, which is that I've been up and down the Northeast a million times but never been to Long Island.  It feels very cut off from the rest of America, like a hamlet of NYC. 

Long Island is full of people whose families used to live in NYC that left, and they are lifers.  They complain about the terrible taxes, but quality of life appears to be high.  It seems like it is family oriented, and boring for single people used to the urban life.  However, I am sure there are young people there, and they likely live halfway between their jobs and the city and go into the city alot.  Except now with Covid things are different. 

My guess based on things you've written is that you would prefer Seattle. 

[Rdy2Fire]

Live on LI (about 20 mins from Stony Brook) and spent A LOT of time in Seattle.

I actually love both but seems you have a lot of decent information above. I wouldn't say LI is anti biking especially in SB area, especially if living close to work, but Seattle is more biking friendly like any city really. YOU WILL need a car on LI but depending on where you live, there are towns where you would be able to walk (or bike) to everything you want/need for example Port Jefferson, Babylon, Huntington, Northport but overall a car is necessary.

LI weather is better IMO only because there is less rain, snow, wind but for you, as you indicated, weather won't be an issue in either case. Both are great for travel (plenty of flights), for road trips I think LI is better, once you get off LI, of course. From Stony Brook/Port Jeff area you can even ferry over to CT (with a car) and have easier access to the entire northeast (CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME etc). You also have NYC an 60-90 mins away and the east end (wine country north, hamptons, montauk, beaches on the south). Northwest coast is more rocky, cliffs, volcanic and beautiful, LI is relatively flat, greener/trees/hills rocky beachs on the north (where you'd likely be) and flat sandy beaches south.

As for people, I find both to have their pro's and con's but you'll adapt to either. There is probably more diversity in the east overall but both are amazing places IMO. It really comes down to where you get the gig or if you have to choose then do you prefer the northwest or east.

[Metalcat]

If the zombie apocalypse comes and you are in Long Island, you will need to get through zombie infested Manhattan in order to try to reach safety in the countryside. 

There is a point behind the absurdity, which is that I've been up and down the Northeast a million times but never been to Long Island.  It feels very cut off from the rest of America, like a hamlet of NYC. 

Long Island is full of people whose families used to live in NYC that left, and they are lifers.  They complain about the terrible taxes, but quality of life appears to be high.  It seems like it is family oriented, and boring for single people used to the urban life.  However, I am sure there are young people there, and they likely live halfway between their jobs and the city and go into the city alot.  Except now with Covid things are different. 

My guess based on things you've written is that you would prefer Seattle.

I wouldn't be moving for at least another two years, certainly not while covid is still an issue.

I do like my urban life, but not so much in a nightlife kind of way the way a young single person would. I like living urban because everything is close by and easy to get to.

Otherwise, I'm a pretty low key, mellow lifestyle kind of person, and will spend 99% of my time studying, and if I end up in LI, it will be a lot easier to fly back home, so most of my off-time will be back here.

That's why I'm not overly concerned with leisure or activities in either city. It's more about finding a place to live, access  to decent food, and what my day to day routine will look like.

If I end up in Seattle, I will rarely fly home, it's just too far, so of the two, if I end up there, I really hope I like it.

[Metalcat]

Live on LI (about 20 mins from Stony Brook) and spent A LOT of time in Seattle.

I actually love both but seems you have a lot of decent information above. I wouldn't say LI is anti biking especially in SB area, especially if living close to work, but Seattle is more biking friendly like any city really. YOU WILL need a car on LI but depending on where you live, there are towns where you would be able to walk (or bike) to everything you want/need for example Port Jefferson, Babylon, Huntington, Northport but overall a car is necessary.

LI weather is better IMO only because there is less rain, snow, wind but for you, as you indicated, weather won't be an issue in either case. Both are great for travel (plenty of flights), for road trips I think LI is better, once you get off LI, of course. From Stony Brook/Port Jeff area you can even ferry over to CT (with a car) and have easier access to the entire northeast (CT, RI, MA, VT, NH, ME etc). You also have NYC an 60-90 mins away and the east end (wine country north, hamptons, montauk, beaches on the south). Northwest coast is more rocky, cliffs, volcanic and beautiful, LI is relatively flat, greener/trees/hills rocky beachs on the north (where you'd likely be) and flat sandy beaches south.

As for people, I find both to have their pro's and con's but you'll adapt to either. There is probably more diversity in the east overall but both are amazing places IMO. It really comes down to where you get the gig or if you have to choose then do you prefer the northwest or east.

That's the thing, I've literally never been to the northwest, so I have no idea.

I've done a bunch of road trips through eastern US, visited a bunch of NY state, just not NYC area specifically. I have a somewhat reasonable understanding of the surrounding area, but LI seems like it's own special enclave.

You're right about people, I have no concerns on that front.

I even read up on the Seattle Freeze and laughed a bit because it sounds like the Canadian cities I've lived in, so if I end up there, I think I'll be quite comfortable. I've found most of the US that I've visited to be almost weirdly friendly. Where I live, even waiters aren't that warm. *I* am very friendly, I'm just not used to it being common.

I'm curious about you saying that LI has better weather, can you tell me more about that? It's so hard to get a sense between the two and everything I read about Seattle says "oh, it's not as rainy or windy as people say" and LI folks complain about the horrible winters, so it's really hard for me to gauge.

Can you tell me a bit about the weather in each place as someone who has lived in both?

[Rdy2Fire]

I haven't lived in Seattle but spent a lot of time there because of work.

Basically my assessment is because you're on an island, surrounded by water, they temperature tend to be warmer then Seattle. Typically there is a lot less rain although I think the amount of snow might be similar between the two.

Long Island people complaining about horrible winters are probably insane because they've become less and less cold and snowy/cold over the years. I would say there is more humidity in LI which means summers the air is more dense and winter the air has more moisture so that definitely is a thing. Oddly enough, although Seattle is further north the temperatures are almost the same probably due to that humidity. The only reason I say LI weather is 'better' is because I think there is definitely less wind and rain overall. Although I don't mind rain, there have been times I've been in Seattle for 10 days and 8 of them were raining and I don't mean like FLA rain where it rains 10 mins and stops.

I guess it really is a flip of a coin for probably two of the nicest places, overall, in the continental US. I mean I'd certainly put both in my top 10 

[LWYRUP]

If the zombie apocalypse comes and you are in Long Island, you will need to get through zombie infested Manhattan in order to try to reach safety in the countryside. 

There is a point behind the absurdity, which is that I've been up and down the Northeast a million times but never been to Long Island.  It feels very cut off from the rest of America, like a hamlet of NYC. 

Long Island is full of people whose families used to live in NYC that left, and they are lifers.  They complain about the terrible taxes, but quality of life appears to be high.  It seems like it is family oriented, and boring for single people used to the urban life.  However, I am sure there are young people there, and they likely live halfway between their jobs and the city and go into the city alot.  Except now with Covid things are different. 

My guess based on things you've written is that you would prefer Seattle.

I wouldn't be moving for at least another two years, certainly not while covid is still an issue.

I do like my urban life, but not so much in a nightlife kind of way the way a young single person would. I like living urban because everything is close by and easy to get to.

Otherwise, I'm a pretty low key, mellow lifestyle kind of person, and will spend 99% of my time studying, and if I end up in LI, it will be a lot easier to fly back home, so most of my off-time will be back here.

That's why I'm not overly concerned with leisure or activities in either city. It's more about finding a place to live, access  to decent food, and what my day to day routine will look like.

If I end up in Seattle, I will rarely fly home, it's just too far, so of the two, if I end up there, I really hope I like it.

Even though I've never been there, from what I understand from others LI is a lot where I live.  So I am guessing you will be able to find urban "town centers" where you can rent an apartment and walk to restaurants and shops.  Some of those will be below the apartment building, and then there will be bigger stores in a strip mall across a busy suburban road but actually walkable.  Those town centers can be very pleasant.  Many people will live there and use regional rail or buses and not drive that frequently in day to day life, but they will have a car and will use it, especially on weekends to go out and enjoy nature.  If you don't have a car, you will feel "marooned."  If you do, and don't mind driving for your weekend adventures, you can have a great quality of life.  I don't know if these areas will be urban enough for you, but you can google towns near where you would be working and get a feel for it. 

LI has a lot of "ethnic Irish, Jews and Italians," so much so that the Wikipedia page says it.  Historically these groups have voted for Democrats, but not necessarily due to deep ideological convictions -- mostly because they are OK with spending money on police, fire, schools, roads, etc. and so taxes are high but services are good.  These sorts of people (these are my people, just in a nearby state) are practical and they are extremely unlikely to support either defunding the police or patriot militias.  They care much more about things like whether Costco is still selling deep freezes on sale or who the Mets are playing.  I understand LI is in recent decades trending "light red" (while my area definitely isn't) but I suspect most people have moderate political views.  Many of them will be quite cliquey since they are still friends with the people they went to high school with.  But they will be educated, probably not particularly religious and their culture will be very different from what you are used to hearing about when people talk about either red states / evangelicals or urban progressives.  Many of them probably spent their 20s living in NYC and enjoyed it but decided they wanted something different when they got older.  Practical suburbanites.  Whenever the left or right wing revolution comes, it's not starting in Long Island. 

People in Seattle are going to on average be less rooted in the local community, more interested in arts and culture, more likely to have political views based on deep ideological convictions.  Also a lot of tech people and thus tech culture.  Possibly more "libertarian" in their views with less of a communal mindset.  While both Washington and NY are "blue," the "red" parts of Washington also seem to have this same parallel of being more ideological (I'm guessing the "red" towns in rural Washington may be more supportive of the local militia and not because of taxes on small businesses or other concerns that motivate LI suburbanites, etc.). 

Some people think of these type of people as provincial, but since I like to be left alone to form my own opinions and let others do the same, and I find very long term friendships around communal interests to be gratifying, I tend to appreciate it.  I mention all this to give you a sense of the area.  I get the sense that people from LI (like my town) like being PART of the larger megalopolis but many of them are quite happy to not live in the same city and they have a different culture than some of the urbanites even when they pull the lever for the same party. 

[LWYRUP]

While it's odd for me to speak in such a detailed manner about a place I've never been, I'll just say I have reason to believe that I have a reasonably well-formed understanding of the culture of upper middle class educated ethnic Catholics who live in the suburbs of very large cities in the northeast of the USA and who went away for college and their first job but who now live in roughly the same area they were from and actually sort of like Pottery Barn and Starbucks drive-throughs even though they know they aren't supposed to.  You'll have to take my word for it.  : )

[jim555]

I know OP mentioned they would have employer health coverage.  NY is good for visa holders and health coverage, they can qualify for the Essential Plan, which is free with low income.  Just mentioning this as it might be better coverage than your employer plan.

[Metalcat]

I know OP mentioned they would have employer health coverage.  NY is good for visa holders and health coverage, they can qualify for the Essential Plan, which is free with low income.  Just mentioning this as it might be better coverage than your employer plan.

I'll have to look into the insurance package. What is considered "low income", the residency will be paying ~60K.

[jim555]

I know OP mentioned they would have employer health coverage.  NY is good for visa holders and health coverage, they can qualify for the Essential Plan, which is free with low income.  Just mentioning this as it might be better coverage than your employer plan.

I'll have to look into the insurance package. What is considered "low income", the residency will be paying ~60K.

For 1 person house, $25.5K is $20 a month, $19.1K or lower is free.
https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/sites/default/files/Essential%20Plan%20Fact%20Sheet_3.pdf

[Paul der Krake]

There is no realistic way you end up qualifying for the Essential plan making 60k when your employer provides coverage.

You're just going to end up on what most Americans of your social strata have. An employer-subsidized plan operated by one of the big insurance companies, with a fairly low deductible. Your share of premiums costing $20 to $200 per month.

Heck, it's even public information for UW:
https://hr.uw.edu/benefits/insurance/health/health-dental-plan-options/

The "classic" plan in 2021 is $105/month for a single employee with a $250 deductible, but there are other options.

[Metalcat]

There is no realistic way you end up qualifying for the Essential plan making 60k when your employer provides coverage.

You're just going to end up on what most Americans of your social strata have. An employer-subsidized plan operated by one of the big insurance companies, with a fairly low deductible. Your share of premiums costing $20 to $200 per month.

Heck, it's even public information for UW:
https://hr.uw.edu/benefits/insurance/health/health-dental-plan-options/

The "classic" plan in 2021 is $105/month for a single employee with a $250 deductible, but there are other options.

Neato, thank you for this.

I just assumed it would be "good insurance", but didn't think much beyond that.

[seattlecyclone]

I'm curious about you saying that LI has better weather, can you tell me more about that? It's so hard to get a sense between the two and everything I read about Seattle says "oh, it's not as rainy or windy as people say" and LI folks complain about the horrible winters, so it's really hard for me to gauge.

Can you tell me a bit about the weather in each place as someone who has lived in both?

I live in Seattle and have never been to Long Island. I grew up in the Midwest and can better compare to there.

What I'll say about the rain in Seattle is that it usually isn't a big quantity of water falling all it once. Downpours and thunder are rare. More common is that you have long strings of dark, cloudy days where you have maybe an hour or two of light rain somewhere in there. The darkness from a combination of high latitude and frequent cloud cover really gets to a lot of people in the winter. At 47.5°N, we're actually farther north than most Canadians. The counterpoint is that we have long, sunny dry days in the summer.

Comparing the climate data of Seattle and Long Island, Long Island actually sees a higher quantity of precipitation than Seattle, but Seattle has more days of precipitation than Long Island. Seattle's precipitation days are heavily clustered in the winter, while Long Island's are pretty uniformly distributed across the year. Seattle is cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than Long Island. Snow is rare in Seattle, but can easily be found in the mountains an hour drive to the east if you miss it.

[Metalcat]

Lol, I doubt 2 years will be long enough for me to miss the snow. I don't mind it, but I could happily live without it.

I also do not mind overcast. Having had skin cancer, high UV days have lost a lot of their charm.

Sounds like we're basically at the same latitude, so I'm used to the winter darkness, but I could see how it could get to people who aren't accustomed to it.

[lhamo]

Heck, it's even public information for UW:
https://hr.uw.edu/benefits/insurance/health/health-dental-plan-options/

The "classic" plan in 2021 is $105/month for a single employee with a $250 deductible, but there are other options.

This is EXCELLENT coverage for Seattle.

Just to give you an idea of what rates are like on the exchange, my DS needs to sign up for a new ACA plan because his income is going up to about 65k/year, which is above the subsidy level for a single filer.  He wants to stay with our current provider, which uses the UW Medicine network.  His options are around $210/month for a very limited bronze plan with high deductible and out of pocket limits ($6800 each), $275/month for a silver plan with slightly lower deductible and OOP limits ($6000 each), or $303/month for a gold plan with much lower limits ($2925 each).  The gold plan also has a few more free primary care visits and much lower copays on prescriptions and specialist visits.  I'm recommending he take the gold plan since if he does have a major medical issue his exposure will be so much less.

[Metalcat]

Heck, it's even public information for UW:
https://hr.uw.edu/benefits/insurance/health/health-dental-plan-options/

The "classic" plan in 2021 is $105/month for a single employee with a $250 deductible, but there are other options.

This is EXCELLENT coverage for Seattle.

Just to give you an idea of what rates are like on the exchange, my DS needs to sign up for a new ACA plan because his income is going up to about 65k/year, which is above the subsidy level for a single filer.  He wants to stay with our current provider, which uses the UW Medicine network.  His options are around $210/month for a very limited bronze plan with high deductible and out of pocket limits ($6800 each), $275/month for a silver plan with slightly lower deductible and OOP limits ($6000 each), or $303/month for a gold plan with much lower limits ($2925 each).  The gold plan also has a few more free primary care visits and much lower copays on prescriptions and specialist visits.  I'm recommending he take the gold plan since if he does have a major medical issue his exposure will be so much less.

This is borderline gibberish to me, but I have a lot of time to learn about how the whole insurance system works.

I've generally been told by friends who did residencies in the US that the insurance provided was excellent and that it shouldn't be something I need to worry about.

Still, once I know more about what each program offers, I'll look into it in more detail.

[WanderLucky]

If you end up in Seattle, look for housing in the Fremont/Wallingford area (near Gas Works park would be ideal). There are some direct bus routes to UW Medical Center and it's close enough that you can walk or bike on the Burke Gilman trail along the lake when the weather is nice. Also, it's urban enough to have great food choices and some night life without being a "downtown" environment.

[Paul der Krake]

Yeah it's highly unlikely that your future options will be that different, and you probably will not choose your residency based on who has lower premiums. Hospitals compete for the same talent pool, and American professionals expect roughly the same thing in terms of coverage when they decide to go work for employer X or employer Y. The only time it could make a significant difference is if you were in the market for an obscure treatment. Think IVF, gender reassignment surgery, etc.

[Metalcat]

If you end up in Seattle, look for housing in the Fremont/Wallingford area (near Gas Works park would be ideal). There are some direct bus routes to UW Medical Center and it's close enough that you can walk or bike on the Burke Gilman trail along the lake when the weather is nice. Also, it's urban enough to have great food choices and some night life without being a "downtown" environment.

It looks like I would have some rotations at Harborview hospital as well, and I like to be very downtown, so Capitol Hill is looking like a great option, but I'll look into that area as well.

I like access to outdoors and paths, but I also like living in a high rise on a very busy intersection.

[MissPeach]

The areas you've mentioned you might be in Seattle are very urban feeling - city blocks and such. It won't be like on Fraiser though there are those types that live there. I moved before the light rail was up but in general Seattle was very pro transit, bike trails, parks, etc. The rain is mostly drizzle so not enough to keep you from doing things most days. Just buy a Columbia or North Face jackets and you'll be fine.

The part that was surprising to me was the snow and wind. It snows only a few times per year but everyone freaks out and the city sort of stops despite a large percentage of drivers with all wheel drive cars. The wind can get pretty intense. I've seen it cause waves to crash over the 90 freeway and shut down the freeway close to the UW campus. Occasionally you might see downed power lines from the wind so be prepared with a plan if that happens - usually in the winter when it's cold. The city usually gets up commercial areas up quickly so you're able to get to stores, restaurants, etc. pre covid. Not sure if this has changed since things broke out. If you are near any of the lakes (there are a lot) the wind chill is a thing and I needed a warmer jacket living in those areas.

If you choose your location wisely it should be possible but I remember only a few grocery stores near those areas so that might be a bit more difficult through biking or transit.

[seattlecyclone]

If you choose your location wisely it should be possible but I remember only a few grocery stores near those areas so that might be a bit more difficult through biking or transit.

The only supermarket in downtown Seattle closed recently. There's still Target and Pike Place Market so you could do okay between those two if you had to.

Capitol Hill is a different story. There's a ton of residents there, a few major supermarkets, and no sign of either changing anytime soon.

[lhamo]

If you choose your location wisely it should be possible but I remember only a few grocery stores near those areas so that might be a bit more difficult through biking or transit.

The only supermarket in downtown Seattle closed recently. There's still Target and Pike Place Market so you could do okay between those two if you had to.

Capitol Hill is a different story. There's a ton of residents there, a few major supermarkets, and no sign of either changing anytime soon.

There is going to be a PCC (local crunchy granola co-op grocery store -- maybe a bit less expensive than Whole Foods but more than other local chains) in the Rainier Square redevelopment, smack dab in the center of downtown.  If you want to spend a gazillion bucks on rent you could also take advantage of the other building amenities.  The views will be stupendous:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainier_Square_Tower

https://www.liverainiersquare.com/residences/

[Metalcat]

The areas you've mentioned you might be in Seattle are very urban feeling - city blocks and such. It won't be like on Fraiser though there are those types that live there. I moved before the light rail was up but in general Seattle was very pro transit, bike trails, parks, etc. The rain is mostly drizzle so not enough to keep you from doing things most days. Just buy a Columbia or North Face jackets and you'll be fine.

I prefer to live very very urban. I joke about Frasier because it's my only Seattle reference and I've been watching it recently. Where I currently live is loud, gritty, and very urban. I'm no stranger to Street folks, addicts, and sex workers being my neighbours. So as long as we're not talking rampant gun violence, I'm pretty good with urban communities.

As for weather and jackets, I have an enviable collection of high end outdoor gear for all types of weather. I'm comfortable with anything other than hurricanes when it comes to weather.

The part that was surprising to me was the snow and wind. It snows only a few times per year but everyone freaks out and the city sort of stops despite a large percentage of drivers with all wheel drive cars. The wind can get pretty intense. I've seen it cause waves to crash over the 90 freeway and shut down the freeway close to the UW campus. Occasionally you might see downed power lines from the wind so be prepared with a plan if that happens - usually in the winter when it's cold. The city usually gets up commercial areas up quickly so you're able to get to stores, restaurants, etc. pre covid. Not sure if this has changed since things broke out. If you are near any of the lakes (there are a lot) the wind chill is a thing and I needed a warmer jacket living in those areas.

I get people freaking about snow. If you don't have the infrastructure for it, and aren't used to driving in it, it can be terrifying. Whenever our snow overtakes our capacity to manage it, the whole city goes into chaos. Thankfully that's rare.

If you choose your location wisely it should be possible but I remember only a few grocery stores near those areas so that might be a bit more difficult through biking or transit.

Whenever I've lived without a car I've always taken a cab home when grocery shopping. I figured I could do that again pretty easily.

Thank you for the details!

[WanderLucky]

I recently lived in Cap Hill for about 3 months, and it was (mostly) great. There are plenty of good groceries in Cap Hill area - There's a large QFC, a Trader Joe's and the Central Co-op (my favorite). I lived just around the corner from the library a block off Broadway and there is lots of excellent food in walking distance (Annapurna Cafe & Kedai Makan are my favorites!), Vivace coffee, bars, cannabis, and other shopping if you need it. There are some big parks - Volunteer Park is excellent and Cal Anderson at least provides some green. Depending on where you live, it definitely is sketchy at night, mostly the closer you are to the downtown side and Broadway. I would only walk my dog less than a block away after dark. But it's mostly petty crime, some muggings, but not so much violent gun crime.
If Covid-like viruses are going to continue to be an issue, I'd look for a place that has some kind of balcony or other outdoor area because there just isn't a ton of that around depending on where exactly you live (besides the previously mentioned parks). Also keep in mind that August-September has become wildfire season and Seattle has been hit with major smoke keeping people mostly indoors when it gets real bad, but that's pretty much most of the west coast these days.
All that said, I love Seattle and think it's a great place to spend some time.