Author Topic: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?  (Read 3831 times)

meerkat

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Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« on: February 13, 2017, 07:05:52 AM »
We're getting ready to reno our kitchen this year and I wanted to check to see if I have a realistic idea of how much we should be aiming to spend on this.

Home value: The house was purchased for $150,000 as a short sale in 2009. Zillow current has it estimated at $191,000. Recently sold houses in the neighborhood with similar bedrooms and square footage have sold for $182k (good condition I think) and $162k (since then they've put on a new roof and are redoing the inside).

Work that needs to be done:
* Replace all cabinets.
* Probably all appliances including the clothes washer and dryer. Appliances currently in good condition are the washer and dryer (okay condition but not great, would be traded for stackable units), the fridge (90% chance of it being the wrong dimensions for later), and the microwave. We have a stove and dishwasher that are hobbling along but I doubt they'll yield much if any value if we tried selling them on Craigslist like I had been planning on.
* Take out a wall that contains plumbing and electricity (we have not yet verified if this wall is load bearing, but if it isn't we're taking it out).
* Redo the flooring in half the house (~900 square feet) from carpet to either tile or hardwood floor or similar hard surface flooring.
* We will be hiring out almost all of this. We have two full time jobs and a toddler, the time to do DIY is a luxury. If we're able to DIY anything that'll be nice but I'm not planning on it.

The number I came up with from some calculator somewhere based on the original $150k purchase price of the house is $18k for the planned budget and assuming an end budget of more like $24k because of scope creep (who knows what we'll find behind walls) or "oops" stuff.

Thoughts?

KCM5

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 07:29:03 AM »
Have you started pricing materials? What's labor like in your area? Are you planning on selling it so that's why your concerned about purchase price/remodel costs? My theory is more along the lines of pay as little as I can manage to get what I want. In this case, I want a remodeled kitchen - what do I spend to get what I want?

We're going to do a total gut job on our kitchen, so I've been pricing things out.

Cabinets/sink/hardware/trim (Ikea or RTA): $4.5k
Flooring (only about 100 sq feet, the rest will be refinished hardwood that's already under the current floor): $300
Walls (no gutting, just removing tiles, plastering, and painting): $300
Appliances (just refrigerator and dishwasher): $1000
Countertops (butcherblock?): $500
Backsplash: $300

This is for a medium sized galley kitchen. And we'll do all the labor ourselves. Planning on about $8k with all the random stuff that has to be done. Keeping same floor plan, not removing walls, not doing any electrical other than replacing fixtures, not moving any plumbing. I think your estimate of $24k is low, considering all you have planned (900 sq feet of flooring, removing wall, replacing all appliances).

MayDay

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 07:44:45 AM »
24k seems about right for just kitchen, but I'd be surprised you can do 900 sq ft of floor for that price.

rothwem

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 07:45:30 AM »
Damn, 900 square feet of kitchen?  That's bigger than my whole house...

But yea, we redid the kitchen for right at $7k. We didn't move any walls, and we did the demo and the finishing work (filling nail holes, painting) while we let the contractor do the cabinets, electrical, plumbing, flooring and plaster work. 


lthenderson

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 08:43:50 AM »
Depends so much on your tastes. The last kitchen I did had cabinets that cost more than your entire budget.

Papa bear

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 09:09:39 AM »
You're planning on gutting a kitchen, moving electric, plumbing, most likely HVAC, and tearing out a potential load bearing wall, replacing all cabinets, appliances, countertops, and 900 sf of flooring? Never mind having to bring electric up to code (probably need multiple new circuits run), re drywall, paint, and trim everything out new? 

That will run you 20k + in just materials, and that won't be top of the line. Never mind getting plans, permits, and in your case, paying a GC since you aren't doing the work yourself.  Don't be surprised to see quotes at 60-80k for someone "reasonable."   You could have someone come in and quote 100+!

I did my entire first floor of my house, removed a load bearing wall, moved the kitchen and a bathroom, all new windows and doors, etc.  I was in at 30k in materials.  I did 90% of the project myself.  Was about 950 sf total space.

PM me if you want you want details on prices.




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meerkat

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 09:17:24 AM »
Damn, 900 square feet of kitchen?  That's bigger than my whole house...

That's half the house, so kitchen, tv room, living room/play area, dining/gaming room. Our actual kitchen is currently tiny and has about two 2' section of counter space as the work area, which is why we're redoing it. Apparently in my house big things are really big and small things are really small.

Have you started pricing materials? What's labor like in your area? Are you planning on selling it so that's why your concerned about purchase price/remodel costs? My theory is more along the lines of pay as little as I can manage to get what I want. In this case, I want a remodeled kitchen - what do I spend to get what I want?

We're not planning on selling, but it's more to kind of guide us as we start getting into making a bajillion decisions on stuff. When we got married I found a book called Bridal Bargains and it had a really helpful guide with a breakout of percentages, so if your budget was X you knew that spending Y on flowers and Z on photography was keeping you on track. I figure there's almost no maximum on the amount we could spend on appliances for example but having something like that would help establish a cap. Then if we get into things and realize that they only offer fridges with a certain feature we want in the price category just above ours, we can adjust as needed.

I have most of an idea of what I want the floor plan to look like and I'm having my husband look at kitchen pictures to figure out his taste preferences (I don't want mine to overshadow his so I'm keeping my opinions to myself for the time being). The next step after that is to start drawing up a plan and figuring out materials.

Depends so much on your tastes. The last kitchen I did had cabinets that cost more than your entire budget.

Yeah. Generally we're thinking of going with IKEA cabinets and we have no need for high-end counter tops but I know there's a bunch of different counter top material options out there so it's a matter of figuring out what works for us.

Damn, 900 square feet of kitchen?  That's bigger than my whole house...

But yea, we redid the kitchen for right at $7k. We didn't move any walls, and we did the demo and the finishing work (filling nail holes, painting) while we let the contractor do the cabinets, electrical, plumbing, flooring and plaster work. 

I can totally get behind this idea. I like painting and we've painted most of our house ourselves. We talked about possibly doing the flooring ourselves but I don't know if that would hold up other trades so that's still on the "hire out" list.

xposting.

Blatant

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 09:44:22 AM »
You don't say where you are, so I have no idea your local pricing/economy. Unless you're using the lowest of low-end materials, I can't imagine you coming close to your $18-$24k budget on a job that size.

LindseyC

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 10:02:47 AM »
I gutted my kitchen down to the studs and redid it for just under 10k. I had to build out two exterior walls so they could be insulated (100 year old house) all new electrical, new stove, European fridge, microwave, sink, plumbing, facets, lighting, paint, wainscotting, framed a window and custom molding to match the rest of the house.

I have a smaller kitchen and went with IKEA for cupboards, counter, farmers sink and faucet. I hired someone to do the electrical and mudding. I also hired someone to do all the construction but I worked along with him to save money. I also let him work on weekends for a few months, at his convenience so it cost me less.

It was a massive undertaking but I did all the planning and small jobs myself and this is with zero construction knowledge. I just read a lot of books and used common sense when planning the kitchen in the wonky space I had with four doorways, a big window and limited space. I have a few areas where I still need to do some small tasks which will probably cost me another $200 which would bring me up to the 10k. The only thing i didn't do was flooring as I have original oak floors that will be sanded when I do my entire first floor.

I made a few mistakes, but overall my kitchen is really wonderful and exactly my style. (But a style that with a little paint and minor adjustments could easily be neutralized for resale - that was deliberate) it really taught me that you can do a LOT with a small budget but you have to be willing to put in the time to seek out sales, do the designing yourself and the more labour you put in the more you will save drastically. Labour is really a massive expense.

Cranky

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2017, 11:41:29 AM »
I think that sounds like it's on the low end, because you are taking out that wall. That's expensive.

We remodeled our kitchen last summer, and we used the same contractor that we had used for the bathrooms the year before, so we knew him and felt like he'd give us a fair deal. (We tried the kitchen planning department at Home Depot, and it was a waste of time and money - we never got anything usable.) The contractor came over with a tape measure and a pad of graph paper, and within 24 hours we were ready to order cabinets.

We did not replace the floor or the appliances, and we did not move any walls. We did shift the fridge and the dishwasher around, so there was some plumbing done.

We got mid-priced cabinets, but we got a lot of them, and the upper cabinets have glass in the doors which was substantially more expensive than plain doors. Who knew? Not me, but it was important to me to have those. And we got granite countertops, because me dh wanted them. I didn't much care about them, but they do go well with the overall look of the kitchen.

We got all new lighting and electrical outlets (we had about 3 outlets in the whole kitchen previously), and a fancy sink, and a range hood.

We spent $17,000. The cabinets were the biggest expense, and then the countertops, and then the labor.

CptCool

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2017, 12:05:38 PM »
I think you are waaaay underestimating the cost for everything you mentioned. I would put it in the $40k+ range if you hire everything out and have low-end or midrange materials. It's extremely tough to even have a rough estimate of costs based on the details provided though.

Cabinets would probably be 3-6k depending on how many, assuming you get ikea or other RTA.

Depending on features and finish, a low-end set of appliances would be ~3k. I'd recommend getting a standard fridge & Appliance depth and having the cabinets & countertop match that size. Your appliances will need to be replaced before your countertop or cabinets will & it makes it much cheaper down the line for replacements.

Taking out a wall w/ plumbing & electrical: This depends & would need more info. Where would the plumbing/electrical be moved to? How easy is it to access? This could work out to being extremely pricey, or it could just be ~1k - very hard to tell. I'd recommend not doing the demo yourself unless you're 100% confident in your abilities to not accidentally sever a pipe or wires - wet walls can be very tricky to demo, especially if it is a plaster & lathe wall

Flooring for 900 Sq ft: This is the majority of the cost. The materials for hardwood will be ~$3.5/sq ft or for tile anywhere from ~$2-$4/sq ft. That's just materials, and assumes your subfloor & joists can properly support the weight without too much deflection. The cost for labor on this would be quite high. I'd say you could probably do this a little bit at a time DIY. No need to do all 900 sq ft at once. Tile is especially easy, just make sure you have a stable floor with minimal movement so it won't crack. Wood is a little harder and you may want to hire it out all at once if you go that route.


All-in-all - I'd recommend getting 3 general contractors out to take a look and have them make a bid. Since you'll likely need various trades (carpenter, electrician, plumber, handyman, etc) I'd go with a general contractor rather than trying to deal with the various tradespeople yourselves. It'll save you a lot of headaches and probably cost the same or less anyways

meerkat

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 12:39:19 PM »
Too much quoting so I'm going to do italics instead:

Cabinets would probably be 3-6k depending on how many, assuming you get ikea or other RTA.
Yeah I need to get an idea of $$ per linear foot of cabinets and see what that would be. I don't have my sketch handy but let's say 13 feet of counter space plus a pantry closet unit and an island (maybe 2'x3'?).

Depending on features and finish, a low-end set of appliances would be ~3k. I'd recommend getting a standard fridge & Appliance depth and having the cabinets & countertop match that size. Your appliances will need to be replaced before your countertop or cabinets will & it makes it much cheaper down the line for replacements.
Good idea, I had heard of getting counter top depth appliances (for a premium) but getting deeper cabinets sounds like a better idea.

Taking out a wall w/ plumbing & electrical: This depends & would need more info. Where would the plumbing/electrical be moved to? How easy is it to access? This could work out to being extremely pricey, or it could just be ~1k - very hard to tell. I'd recommend not doing the demo yourself unless you're 100% confident in your abilities to not accidentally sever a pipe or wires - wet walls can be very tricky to demo, especially if it is a plaster & lathe wall 
The electrical will probably just get capped back at the perpendicular wall, it's just two outlets (one floor level and one higher up in a phone cubby thing) and the plumbing is for a utility sink that I'd like to reroute to the garage (basically the pipe would go west a few inches instead of east two feet) but the garage utility sink is just a wishlist item. Oh, that is on the wall where I want to move the fridge, so the fridge could still have an ice maker.

Flooring for 900 Sq ft: This is the majority of the cost.
Oooh, good to know. When I came up with the budget for the kitchen it just occurred to us "Well we might as well do the floors then too" but did not add that to the budget at all. My IL's did their own tile floors so they can at least provide useful advice if we DIY that. I will revise my mental budget to be [kitchen reno budget] + [flooring budget].

Laura33

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2017, 12:40:28 PM »
FWIW, I wouldn't rely on a calculator based on the price of the house -- that makes no sense, other than as the vaguest estimate of low-end vs. high-end finishes.  You will likely get more info pricing things out piece by piece -- e.g., what level of replacement appliances are you looking at, how many linear feet of cabinets, how many square feet of countertop, etc.  I mean, you can buy a stove for $100 or $10K, so you will get far more info from looking at the individual pieces than general estimates.

I would guesstimate that your figure is reasonable-but-tight for a contracted-out "replace in kind" kitchen remodel in a relatively newer home.  (As comparison, both my mom and I recently got quotes in the low-$20Ks for bathroom remodels, neither of which was remotely fancy, and neither of which involved moving fixtures).  Specific things that jack up the budget quickly:

1.  Older house (need to bring things up to code, drop new electrical subpanel, re-wire or re-plumb certain areas, remove asbestos or lead-soldered pipes, etc. -- the downside risk of "you never know what you're going to get until you get in there" gets a lot worse the older the home is.  Ask me how I know).
2.  Moving plumbing lines.
3.  Removing walls, especially if load-bearing.
4.  Location and how busy your GC is (we are mid-Atlantic -- not DC, but not super-cheap either.  Expect significant premiums in some parts of the country, discounts in others, based largely on availability and cost of labor).

You definitely have 2 and 3 going on here, so I'd take a sharper pencil to some of the numbers -- get a few quotes to see what kind of overhead/profit the GC will charge you and whether there are big issues to be aware of before you dive in (e.g., if your electrical panel is maxed out, that should be obvious right now; they may be able to make a reasonable guess whether the wall is loadbearing based on its orientation; etc.). 

Also beware all of the extras that you don't even realize are options until you start shopping, like roll-out shelving, soft-close drawers, undercabinet lighting, glass door fronts, etc. etc. etc. -- once you start diving in, it's very easy to get lured into a lot of stuff you never even thought of beforehand.  I would think Ikea would make it pretty easy to price out those kinds of options (regular cabinet companies love to play hide-the-ball so you don't really "see" the cost of all of those upgrades).

Finally, how long do you need this to last for?  I spent more on cabinets because I expect my kitchen to last until I kick the bucket, so things like 1/2" particleboard and crappy joinery were right out.  OTOH, if you are looking for 5-10 years, you are probably just fine. 

historienne

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2017, 01:01:57 PM »
We did a similar kitchen total remodel (although the wall we took out had no plumbing in it).  It was probably about 20k (we were doing other work at the same time, I'm not entirely sure how much of the total cost was for the kitchen). 

That included a new stove, dishwasher, counters, and hardwood flooring, but we bought the sink and cabinets on Craigslist.

CmFtns

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 01:51:45 PM »
I redid the kitchen in my house which is about 120sqft galley style. I only hired out one thing... the countertop fabrication and install so this should give you a decent idea on materials...

I ended up spending a little over 10k total here's a estimated breakdown best i can remember:
Stainless appliances $2,500
IKEA cabinets and fronts $1,900
flooring 220sqft (kitchen and dining room) $950
Drywall, tape, mud, electrical boxes, switches/outlets, wiring, sub floor materials: $500
80sqft subway tile backslash extended floor to ceiling around edges of cabinets $250
Sink, Faucet, Cabinet hardware Plumbing, disposal, under cabinet lighting (amazon): $650
33sqft granite counter top (only thing I had hired out): $2,200
miscellaneous (small things I forgot): $3-500 or so



« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 01:53:44 PM by CmFtns »

Prairie Stash

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2017, 03:57:09 PM »
Go to Home depot, sit down and get a free estimate. They will hand you drawings to look at that really help with determining the linear feet of cabinets. They will also give you quotes on appliances and everything else. This is all useful, all free, and can quickly guide you into choosing the material that fits your budget. Remember, they will beat any price by 10%, it pays to shop around and then go back for the 10% discount, I did it for some insulation last year (price match and 10% off). 

Flooring is a good example of many prices. Laminate starts around $1/sf up to $5 (its not always great in high traffic areas), hardwood starts at $5 and goes to $20+, typically its $8-10. So 900 sf could cost between $1,000 and $20,000 depending on your choice. The installation is on top of that, so that could be your entire budget right there. http://www.homeadvisor.com/cost/flooring/install-flooring/

Mrs. PoP

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2017, 05:07:10 PM »
We're rounding the bend on finishing our kitchen gut job + replacing a little over 1000 sqft of tile.  We will end up a little over $30K, most of which was doing the work ourselves because we (I?) wanted high end fancy things without paying for the labor to get them.   So I built my own high end fancy cabinets and we tore out the ceiling, modified the trusses and vaulted our own ceiling (per the engineering diagram we hired a structural engineer to make for us).   

Included in all of this was-
Relocating plumbing and duct work for washer and dryer to move non bearing wall. (Hired out jack hammering floor and relocating water and drain lines)
Modifying trusses, and vaulting ceiling (hired out engineering diagram)
Relocating duct work (hired out a couple small parts of this)
Completely replacing all electrical in kitchen
Replacing and increasing size of windows
Drywall (we hired someone to match texture on existing walls)
Kitchen cabinets (I built them from scratch, including the doors and fancy pull-outs)
Kitchen table and countertops (we built these out of reclaimed wood from the property mr pop grew up on)
Replaced 1000 sqft of tile with much higher quality wood plank tile (hired out removing old tile for half the project, should have in hindsight for the other half too).

All in all, it's a lot.   We didn't skimp on materials, and ended up with some really nice tools over the course of the project, but depending how much cabinetry you need and what finishes and fanciness you desire, I could easily see it being well above your estimate. 

mistershankly

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Re: Budget for fully gutting kitchen?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2017, 05:14:46 PM »
If you're going with IKEA cabinets, you might want to look into Semihandmade for the cabinet doors and trim.

http://www.semihandmadedoors.com

They are made to fit IKEA cabinets and they provide an upgraded look to them if IKEA's offerings are not to your taste.