Author Topic: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)  (Read 5221 times)

Nick_Miller

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Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« on: March 07, 2018, 09:15:27 AM »
I'm starting my 4th year working for a small law office. Earn about $110K/year, including bonuses. My wife and I have made great progress on net worth in the past few years. We are presently around $205K net worth and should hit $250K net worth by year's end, assuming everything stays the same. Momentum is building. Of course, nothing stays the same forever.

Business has really slowed in the past 6 months. I used to have a pipeline of incoming cases at least equal to the cases I was settling each month. Equilibrium! For the past 6 months, the flow of new cases has been about 1/2 what it used to be. I chalked it up to a slow cycle, which happens in personal injury law, but now I'm concerned. At this rate, I'll be down to a pitiful caseload by the end of this year, perhaps a 1/3 of what I had when I started.

My boss spends lots of $ on advertising, but I don't know the specifics. It's a saturated market; lots of firms spend lots of $ on advertising. He is somewhat secretive about financials; that's his right as a business owner, but I have no idea how much of a "rainy day" fund he has stashed away.

Options I'm considering:

1) Ask him about firm finances, especially about a rainy day fund. If you were the owner of a small business, would you be offended if an employee asked this question? Would you view it as reasonable? I really want to know if we have enough saved up to ride out this "slow cycle" if it continues for a while. If he says "we're fine," I'd be less nervous about riding it out.

2) Start looking for another job. If the ship is going down, it might be smarter not to go down with it. I don't love my job anyway, and I wouldn't want to do personal injury work anymore. I would miss the freedom, driving my kiddo school, and the unlimited vacation and sick time.

3) Scramble to try to find new business for the firm (something I was told "not to worry about" when I was hired because we had TOO much work, and he said, "We have plenty of clients, just work the cases and keep money coming in.")  My hesitation is in finding new business just to hand him the lion's share of the fee when it's settled.

4) Focus on my side hussle as much as possible and just ride this train until it derails. I am doing a side hussle (creative writing) and expect to earn $15K-$20K this year. It's not a ton, but it's growing. Under this approach, I would be investing into my own side hussle instead of spending time looking for clients for him. If the ship didn't sink for at least another 8 months, my wife and I would probably have reached $250K net worth, and we could figure out my next step then.

5) Start my own firm. I am an independent person, so being my own boss is appealing, in concept. Also, if I left, some of my clients would come with me, so that would give me a cushion. But it's scary thinking about the financial risks (rent, advertising, insurance). Plus, as I said, I'm not super pumped about doing personal injury law anymore, but that's what I've done for years. I'd have to learn a new area to break into as I settle the clients who came with me. Plus, my wife is pretty risk-adverse. Lots of negatives here.

I'm obviously going to talk to my wife, but I'm trying to get my thoughts straight. The right answer might be some combination of 1-5.

Any feedback?

EDITED TO ADD: Our current plan was for me to ride this out through end of 2019, at which we would be around $300K net worth. Hopefully I'd be earning at least $20K/year writing then, and we discussed me taking a part-time job then and really trying to make the writing thing work. But that all depended on getting to the end of 2019 and getting to $300K net worth, and I don't know that those things can happen now unless things turn around at work.

 




« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 09:34:36 AM by Nick_Miller »

Sibley

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2018, 10:56:11 AM »
(not a lawyer) What area of law would you be interested in? Are there options for in-house work, and if so, would you be qualified/interested? I know plenty of lawyers who aren't in law. Skills are transferable, so is there something else you might be interested in?

Aside from all that, use your current firehose of cash to really get into a good place, just in case. Make sure your expenses are dialed in.

#1 - just because someone says "we're fine" doesn't mean you actually are. Plenty of people are in denial, right up until the business folds. So take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

#5 - you said yourself the market is saturated. Bad idea.

Lady SA

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2018, 11:16:11 AM »
Not a lawyer, so take this with a grain of salt as I may have no idea what I'm talking about. But it sounds like you have a decision that hinges on whether or not the business is going under, but you don't know if it is.

I'd ask your boss what the state of the business is. What is the worst that can happen? Just know that he may give you a bullshit answer, or he may surprise you and be transparent. I'd approach it from how it is impacting you, like "Hey boss - I've noticed a drastic downturn in my incoming cases/work, and this hasn't happened the last few years and it makes me nervous. Do we have a cushion to ride out this bump, or should I be assisting in looking for additional work to help take up the slack?" That last part may be a lie, but I'd end on a "how I can help" note which always makes managers happy.

I also wouldn't depend on his answer, and I'd be out looking for a different opportunity, in a less saturated market. You will look after your own interests best, so I'd use this lull to my advantage to get myself interview ready. You are really asking your boss about the finances to know how much runway you have to jump ship -- do you have a few months to prepare, or are you already sinking?

Considering how conservative your family is and that you haven't met your goals yet, I would probably hold off on going solo until you have that solid financial foundation. I'd go find a different firm to work for until at least the end of 2019 and $300k net worth, meet your goal, and then see how comfortable you are going it alone if that's what you want.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 11:18:43 AM by Lady SA »

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2018, 12:26:02 PM »
@Sibley, I don't want to do personal injury litigation. But on the other hand, I'm not interested in most transactional stuff either. Quite the bind! I might enjoy working with IP or in the publishing field, but those jobs are scare outside New York and I don't have experience. I might enjoy doing some non-legal stuff like grant writing, something where I can dig into a proposal, something that I feel strongly about, and try to secure funding. Hell, I'd even enjoy working in a library or something like that.

I've also floated the idea of financial coaching (I am good with people, especially most blue collar/middle class folks) and personal finance is an interest of mine.

I also like creative writing, and I'd love to build up my writing income.

@Lady SA, yes you pretty much hit the nail on the head. "Can I coast for 22 months, or can I not?" I'd really like to know the answer to this question, but as has been pointed out, even if I get an answer, there's no guarantee that it's accurate.

Yes, my family is conservative. The good news is that we have a small monthly mortgage payment (under $900) and I am way ahead on student loan payments, so we have flexibility in our monthly budget for the next few years. I just feel this time in my life is a great chance to push hard for a net worth increase.

And you make great points about the market saturation. Yeah, there's no way I would enter this market on my own. I tuned in to a marketing webinar recently and they said that about 70% of the most expensive search terms for SEO are legal-related. It's crazy.

Laura33

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2018, 12:27:22 PM »
Do 1 and 2.

On 1, don't just ask him a general question and accept a blow-off answer; if he is expecting you to commit to the firm for the long-term, it is reasonable for you to want more info on its financial viability (and if he doesn't plan on keeping you around for the long-term, you need to know that, too).  It's not just how much cash does he have on-hand, it's also what his plan is to turn the ship around -- more advertising, more active seeking-out of clients, etc.

On 2, you are rapidly nearing the closing window for "easy" career changes -- really, after about 5 years, you are considered too senior for most firms to be interested in taking you on, unless you can bring a significant client base with you (which would also mean continuing to do the same kind of work that you don't like).  That doesn't necessarily mean throwing resumes around, but definitely develop and work your network, go to events that involve other areas of interest, learn as much as you can about those other areas, and make as many contacts as you can.  You might not run into a great opportunity doing that, but you sure won't if you don't.  And at worst, if everything goes into the shitter, you'll have a lot more people who might be willing to help you look out for new jobs.

Oh, and you should always do 3, just on general principles.  Having portable business is where the power is -- and honing those marketing skills will pay off in any job. 

trollwithamustache

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2018, 12:34:27 PM »
well, before you start your own firm, spend some time trying to find business for him. Biz Dev is its own ball of wax so you want to learn on his dime.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2018, 01:03:48 PM »
well, before you start your own firm, spend some time trying to find business for him. Biz Dev is its own ball of wax so you want to learn on his dime.

I absolutely agree with this and while you’re at it, educate yourself about running a business. Lawyers go to school to become lawyers, not business owners and they are horrible at running businesses without training and experience. Don’t fall into that trap. There’s more to the success then clients following you. Use this role to learn and practice everything before considering going out on your own. Find a Practice management course you can do.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2018, 01:10:41 PM »
Not a lawyer, but I would focus on looking elsewhere.  If/when you find something acceptable, "jump ship".  Anything your boss tells you is likely to be bs, so why bother?

CNM

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2018, 02:07:43 PM »
I'd suggest looking at other jobs, particularly in insurance defense.  You should be marketable to other firms with 4 years of litigation experience.  I would not recommend you open your own firm, as 4 years is not enough IMO to be a solo-practitioner.  That would need something closer to 10 years.

BuildingmyFIRE

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »
Hi there-- you don't say whether you are plaintiff side or defense side.  Since you mentioned your boss does tons of advertising, I assume you're plaintiff's side. 

There are natural ebbs and flows to litigation, and while I primarily practice on the defense side, I don't have any reason to believe plaintiffs side firms are immune to it.  I'm surprised you haven't hit one before.  I think most lawyers get skittish during a lull and then a few months later work picks back up again and you think "Wow that was silly of me!"  And then the next lull comes and BOOM Doomsday all over again. 

There's nothing wrong with going to the partner if you are getting light and ask if he can push down some work, and if he has none, ask how you can help originate matters.  He may also want you to focus on legal ed or marketing, etc., with your free time.  But it should be fine to have that conversation.

I would highly advise AGAINST jumping ship and starting your own firm. Running a firm is not like being a lawyer.  A lot of solos -- well meaning solos-- end up in front of bar counsel trying to explain how they didn't understand how to manage an Iolta fund or why some funds got comingled and accidentally spent, or that they didn't understand that they were supposed to carry malpractice insurance and now oops a client whose case you messed up is out of luck, etc.   At 4 years, you haven't been around long enough to master the practice, which you should focus on -- if that's what you want to do. 

More fundamentally, it sounds like you don't love the profession.  There are other types of litigation that are vastly different than personal injury, and you might want to see if you can switch firms where you have more opportunity to broaden your horizons and try those other areas of the law. You might like employment or real estate or construction litigation, for example.  If you don't think that's going to float your boat, maybe its time to do some soul searching on your next career change.  There are loads of recovered lawyers.  You haven't failed by leaving.  Just be honest with yourself about what you really want and where you want your career to go.  Best of luck.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 03:32:14 PM »
I will post more later but want to clarify that I am 44 years old and I have practiced for 17 years, including 8 years of insurance defense and 4 years of govt work. I am not a pup. But I've never found a law job that I loved.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2018, 06:47:29 AM »
My wife and I had a good talk last night. I hate scaring her, and of course I still don't know the seriousness of the firm's slowing trajectory, but I wanted to go ahead and have a talk (I'm sure one of many).

At this point, we are both good with doing 1, 2, and 4.

1 - Probably a no-brainer. It's just a matter of timing. I usually wander into his office a few times a month and we shoot the shit (mostly about non-law stuff), and we have a pretty good relationship. I'll be pretty blunt and say that I'm concerned about slowing business and just see how he responds.

2 - But I'll be careful and discreet. I'm not going to litter the landscape with resumes (that's not the best way to do it anyway, I know). Honestly, I'll probably focus on law jobs outside our niche, or non-law jobs that look appealing, so the chances of my boss finding out are slim.

4 - This is important to me, and frankly I enjoy it much more than I enjoy practicing law, so I'll keep grinding it out. Again, in a perfect world, the firm chugs along for another 22 months, we reach $300K net worth (or maybe even $325K), and my wife and I feel comfortable with me going down to part-time work, giving me full-time hours to grow my writing. We're currently increasing net worth at $5K/month clip through combination of investment, debt payment, and savings. We have $25K in cash savings, and we agree to keep that safe, given the situation.

EDITED TO ADD:

I have worked for 4 firms over the past 17 years, and I didn't like any of them.

Firm A hired me out of law school, but pay was very low (insurance defense) and with billable hours, the only real way to earn significantly more money was to bill more and more and more and more. I hit 1,800 hours most years but I never was going to be a guy who stayed until 9PM trying to hit 2,100.

Firm B was very professional, and the people were nice, but my god the subject matter (collections) was horribly boring. Basically I was told, "litigate these cases, but don't burn bridges with the defendants because the client wants them to come back some day. Oh, and try to bluff your way through most of this, because we really don't have any documents in most of our files."

Firm C turned out to be....well, let's just say not my kind of people. They cut corners and used tactics I did not approve of. The money was good, but I could not stay in good conscience.

Firm D is my current firm. I like the owner. I have a lot of freedom. My main concerns are the slowing business, the firm's practice, which has lost all appeal for me, and the constant, "what if owner gets hit by a bus tomorrow, or gets a divorce?" questions in my head, since he's the sole owner. If he get arrested, or seriously injured, or whatever, I'm screwed.

So maybe I just haven't found the right fit. Maybe I'm better cut out for government work. I say that because I'd appreciate good benefits and work-life balance, and not having to worry about bringing in business or competing with the sharks, but with gov't jobs, freedom goes out the window, and that's a big thing for me.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 06:56:30 AM by Nick_Miller »

Linea_Norway

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2018, 07:35:38 AM »
Here another not-lawyer.

You mentioned an alternatives with you looking for more work at your current company. But you don't like to give away the biggest part of it. Do you think you could negotiate this with your boss? If there are any clients that you bring in, that you could keep a bigger % of the earnings? Maybe this could be suggested after you talked with your boss. Then you could offer to help, but try to suggest that you expect a bit more for it.

FIFoFum

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 08:12:30 AM »
I would work backwards from your current goals. It seems like what you really want is to be writing FT by 2020, and then maybe doing some legal work on the side for the money. I don't see any real advantage in starting your own law practice for such a short time frame.

Is your current firm the type of place where that arrangement or relationship is likely to pan out, even if you can ride it out for the almost 2 years now? If so, then it seems worth it to dig in deeper, and see if there is more you can do to keep the pipeline moving at your current firm.

If not - whether due to the risk of one partner or the nature of the work (e.g., you won't be able to step down without him needing to hire someone else), then I'd focus on searching for a new position that is a better fit with where you want to be. I'd be looking for other jobs to apply for that might bring in more $ now and/or have potential for you to stay on later in a PT way.

chasesfish

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2018, 08:16:15 AM »
Why not go in-house counsel for an insurance company?  Insurance defense is lower paying, but steady work.  You may even be able to find a firm that will pay you and let you work on a 20hr/week billiable hour target and you focus on creative writing for the other half.

Banker here, Personal Injury Law is notoriously volatile, the most volatile of any legal profession I've ever banked

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2018, 09:26:45 AM »
My wife and I had a good talk last night. I hate scaring her, and of course I still don't know the seriousness of the firm's slowing trajectory, but I wanted to go ahead and have a talk (I'm sure one of many).

At this point, we are both good with doing 1, 2, and 4.

1 - Probably a no-brainer. It's just a matter of timing. I usually wander into his office a few times a month and we shoot the shit (mostly about non-law stuff), and we have a pretty good relationship. I'll be pretty blunt and say that I'm concerned about slowing business and just see how he responds.

2 - But I'll be careful and discreet. I'm not going to litter the landscape with resumes (that's not the best way to do it anyway, I know). Honestly, I'll probably focus on law jobs outside our niche, or non-law jobs that look appealing, so the chances of my boss finding out are slim.

4 - This is important to me, and frankly I enjoy it much more than I enjoy practicing law, so I'll keep grinding it out. Again, in a perfect world, the firm chugs along for another 22 months, we reach $300K net worth (or maybe even $325K), and my wife and I feel comfortable with me going down to part-time work, giving me full-time hours to grow my writing. We're currently increasing net worth at $5K/month clip through combination of investment, debt payment, and savings. We have $25K in cash savings, and we agree to keep that safe, given the situation.

EDITED TO ADD:

I have worked for 4 firms over the past 17 years, and I didn't like any of them.

Firm A hired me out of law school, but pay was very low (insurance defense) and with billable hours, the only real way to earn significantly more money was to bill more and more and more and more. I hit 1,800 hours most years but I never was going to be a guy who stayed until 9PM trying to hit 2,100.

Firm B was very professional, and the people were nice, but my god the subject matter (collections) was horribly boring. Basically I was told, "litigate these cases, but don't burn bridges with the defendants because the client wants them to come back some day. Oh, and try to bluff your way through most of this, because we really don't have any documents in most of our files."

Firm C turned out to be....well, let's just say not my kind of people. They cut corners and used tactics I did not approve of. The money was good, but I could not stay in good conscience.

Firm D is my current firm. I like the owner. I have a lot of freedom. My main concerns are the slowing business, the firm's practice, which has lost all appeal for me, and the constant, "what if owner gets hit by a bus tomorrow, or gets a divorce?" questions in my head, since he's the sole owner. If he get arrested, or seriously injured, or whatever, I'm screwed.

So maybe I just haven't found the right fit. Maybe I'm better cut out for government work. I say that because I'd appreciate good benefits and work-life balance, and not having to worry about bringing in business or competing with the sharks, but with gov't jobs, freedom goes out the window, and that's a big thing for me.

I think it's great that you're communicating all of this with your spouse.  I too have had many a nights discussing my career with my wife, and it usually leads us to try and accomplish things and decide options together.

I've posted about my dilemma as a young attorney, and you can read about it over here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/employment-dilemma-take-new-job/

But to summarize, I really empathize with you about not really finding the right fit.  My old job had (1) an insane amount of politics, (2) a low short term ceiling, and (3) was shoving me into practice areas I didn't like.  My new job has a relatively crazy boss who operates on a 911 basis for everything.

I think it's really good that you're planning as much as possible.   I'm three months into my job but, on weekends, I regularly work on a business plan outline for my own firm (which is now 17 pages and counting).  I have an entire section about revenue generation, and also an entire section about using my current job as an incubator of sorts to get everything lined up for my own practice. 

I'm a baby compared to you, but I think you should do some combination of everything (as you've already indicated).  The best job security you could ever have is your own clients, so you should think about that.  I've found that treating the clients as YOUR CLIENTS rather than the FIRM'S CLIENTS means they will follow you. 

I would maximize your current job while still getting a salary, but still use your current position (within ethical boundaries) to prepare for your next transition.  If that's multiple avenues, then do a little bit for each to start setting the groundwork for those transitions.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2018, 07:49:57 AM »
Thanks for the wisdom, everyone.

The two paths I have pretty much crossed out are "start solo firm" and "find a new firm job." I'm keeping my job search very casual and I'm focusing on jobs that I think I would actually enjoy.  So if that means I just apply once every two months, so be it. I am working on my LinkedIn profile this weekend and keeping an eye on local government jobs and pseudo-legal jobs like risk management.

My new book is set to release in less than 60 days, so I'll see how well it does. That will have a decent-sized impact on future plans. For now, grinding away at work. Should actually earn a bonus this month (about $1,500) and will toss that in savings.

And @ReadySetMillionaire, I think I actually read much of your journal at some point! I just checked it out and it seems very familiar. Are you working for the female version of my boss?? Mine is out of the office a lot too, and not the most organized person in the world. You are much younger than I am, and you're smart to learn different areas on someone else's dime.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 07:54:01 AM by Nick_Miller »

LWYRUP

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2018, 09:08:59 AM »

I think the obvious answer here is use this slow time to hone your business development skills.

I would not worry about "giving the business to your partner."  What you are trying to do is develop your own independent pipeline.  A slow time at work is a GREAT time to do that.  Once you have your own pipeline, then you are in a better negotiating position for anything (becoming a partner, getting a raise, going part-time, starting your own firm, etc.).  In the meantime, you practice your business development skills on his dime, and then he benefits if you are able to pull it off.  Win-win. 

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2018, 09:46:26 AM »

I think the obvious answer here is use this slow time to hone your business development skills.

I would not worry about "giving the business to your partner."  What you are trying to do is develop your own independent pipeline.  A slow time at work is a GREAT time to do that.  Once you have your own pipeline, then you are in a better negotiating position for anything (becoming a partner, getting a raise, going part-time, starting your own firm, etc.).  In the meantime, you practice your business development skills on his dime, and then he benefits if you are able to pull it off.  Win-win.

The one complication here is that attorneys are VERY heavily regulated on advertising and marketing. (You might be an attorney and already know this, so I apologize if that's the case).

Every advertisement, even a FB post, would need to be evaluated and possibly submitted to the state bar association. I cannot solicit business in person, unless I have a standing relationship. Heck, I've witnessed the aftermath of 4 car accidents in the past few months and I was ethically bound from offering any help (unless I did it for free). It's a very different world than most industries and the way they drum up business.

Basically, I need to go schmooze with docs and chiropractors and try to drum up some business that way, but some of those offices expect a "quid quo pro," which is NOT ethical, so there are a lot of failed attempts. It's a lot of trial and error.

All this being said, I could schedule some doctor/chiro lunch meetings. Most people are fine with you bringing them food and will chat with you for a bit in return.

LWYRUP

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2018, 10:23:44 AM »

I think the obvious answer here is use this slow time to hone your business development skills.

I would not worry about "giving the business to your partner."  What you are trying to do is develop your own independent pipeline.  A slow time at work is a GREAT time to do that.  Once you have your own pipeline, then you are in a better negotiating position for anything (becoming a partner, getting a raise, going part-time, starting your own firm, etc.).  In the meantime, you practice your business development skills on his dime, and then he benefits if you are able to pull it off.  Win-win.

The one complication here is that attorneys are VERY heavily regulated on advertising and marketing. (You might be an attorney and already know this, so I apologize if that's the case).

Every advertisement, even a FB post, would need to be evaluated and possibly submitted to the state bar association. I cannot solicit business in person, unless I have a standing relationship. Heck, I've witnessed the aftermath of 4 car accidents in the past few months and I was ethically bound from offering any help (unless I did it for free). It's a very different world than most industries and the way they drum up business.

Basically, I need to go schmooze with docs and chiropractors and try to drum up some business that way, but some of those offices expect a "quid quo pro," which is NOT ethical, so there are a lot of failed attempts. It's a lot of trial and error.

All this being said, I could schedule some doctor/chiro lunch meetings. Most people are fine with you bringing them food and will chat with you for a bit in return.

I am an attorney.  I think the facts on the ground are that the bar focuses on these things more for some practice areas (e.g., those related to litigation, those public facing) than others.

I do commercial real estate.  I've never heard of a commercial real estate lawyer getting in trouble for being too aggressive for pitching a developer.  But the reality is that the tactics are the same as you describe (lunches, getting on panels, etc.) simply because most sophisticated commercial real estate clients won't give the time of day to someone that's just cold-calling or running around construction sites handing out cards or something. 

It's really hard to drum up business in my line of work too, because the stakes are high.  (I know you've used the same attorney for years, mr. millionaire, but why don't you pay me $100k to help you put up this building instead.)   On the other hand, just a few clients and you start to develop a reputation and you are set.

I'm still only at the stage where I've gotten a few inquiries for smaller matters, which so far didn't even pan out anyways, so I hear you.  It's a multi-year process to start to develop a client base in my line of work, unfortunately. 


ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 12:32:03 PM »
The one complication here is that attorneys are VERY heavily regulated on advertising and marketing. (You might be an attorney and already know this, so I apologize if that's the case).

Every advertisement, even a FB post, would need to be evaluated and possibly submitted to the state bar association. I cannot solicit business in person, unless I have a standing relationship. Heck, I've witnessed the aftermath of 4 car accidents in the past few months and I was ethically bound from offering any help (unless I did it for free). It's a very different world than most industries and the way they drum up business.

Basically, I need to go schmooze with docs and chiropractors and try to drum up some business that way, but some of those offices expect a "quid quo pro," which is NOT ethical, so there are a lot of failed attempts. It's a lot of trial and error.

All this being said, I could schedule some doctor/chiro lunch meetings. Most people are fine with you bringing them food and will chat with you for a bit in return.

Again, I'm a young attorney, so take this with a grain of salt...I think you're being way, way, way too conservative and anal here.

As I said earlier, your best job security is to just have your own clients.  Step one for that is to just start treating the firm's clients as your clients.  I get lunch with my clients, return their calls promptly, take notes about personal things they tell me, etc.  When I left my old job (just a few months ago), probably 80% of my clients came with me (which wasn't a lot, but still).  That includes a big commercial client with a huge trade secrets case that's likely way over my head, but I took the CFO out to lunch after multiple hearings, we liked each other, and now boom, I have this huge litigation file that will probably generate $20-30k revenue this year alone.

Now at my new job, I am doing the same, and people calling into the office are no longer asking for my boss, they're asking to talk to me.  I can bet you a good buck these people will follow me when I leave.

Then there's two other networks you need to tap--fellow colleagues in different practice areas and friends/family.  Call up an estate planning lawyer you've met before ask to buy him lunch/coffee/beers/whatever so you can talk about drafting a friend's will pro bono.  Then tell him this is all too complicated and if it's okay if you can send him clients.  Then he might reciprocate.  Do this for a bunch of practice areas. Just this week I had a probate lawyer refer five traffic tickets to me ($1,000).

Then tap your friends and family.  I have a list of every contact I know and their phone number and address.  Anecdotally, I was at the bar last night with a friend from high school who I haven't seen in years.  He sells life insurance and we basically agreed to "you send me your clients without wills/POAs, I'll send you my clients who don't have life insurance."  And while we were out, we ran into a high school classmate who is a physician, and he asked me to step aside and he's got a big noncompete issue. 


Honestly, all this is "business development."  I love when I'm slow because it's when I get to focus on solidifying my client base.  Tonight will be the third night this week I'm out getting beers after work.  Next week I have two depositions and a trial the week after, so I won't be having any Guinesses then.  But while things are slow, my focus is on clients or business development or networking or whatever the hell you want to call it.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 12:37:01 PM by ReadySetMillionaire »

CNM

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2018, 11:12:37 AM »
I'm also an attorney, FWIW.

I really like the suggestion to work backwards.  Take a look at making a 5 year plan.  What's the end goal?  To be FIRE?  To do more work in a certain practice area or pro bono work?  Then look and see what you'll need to do to get there.

Also, following up on what others have said about advertising, while your practice is slow, it's a good time to work on your personal brand/clout.  Work on an article for your local bar or practice group or volunteer be a CLE instructor. I'm on the board of a professional legal organization and we are always looking for volunteers to teach an hour or so of CLE in a practice area of interest to our members. Or, now might be a good time to look into getting rated by Martindale. 

Finally, it is definitely true that there are ebbs and flows in private practice.  At my very small firm, we had a trial set for April cancelled, so I have much more free time than usual.

Laura33

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2018, 08:14:16 PM »
What RSM said.  “Advertising” is the last (and usually least-effective) part of a client development plan.  My first “real” client that I brought in was a guy I had worked with 10 years before when we were at the same company - we both moved to different jobs, but when an issue came up years later, he remembered me.  Brought us high-six-figures of work over the next 3-4 years.

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2018, 08:19:10 PM »
I’m not sure how one advertises. My clients all came to me because I won a string of cases on an unsettled procedural issue that I took advantage of. 

WalkaboutStache

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2018, 09:58:00 PM »
This may be a little out of left field.  Have you read "Design Your Life?"  Look that up - NPR has several programs that mention it.  I found it helpful because the profession has a way of making you think that law is the only thing you could possibly do (maybe not your case, but maybe you are not as clear from that tunnel as you think).  If you read the book and do the exercises (could be fun with your wife, even though they are not THAT kind of exercise one would do with one's SO), maybe something will spark.  It helped me.  It did not solve my how-do-I-leave-law problem, but it got me thinking better.

I sympathize.  Former philosopher, went into law thinking it would be neat, love the money, hate the gig.  I have been pretty fortunate as far as clients and employers are concerned, but my heart is not in it. This is dismal stuff - if it wasn't you would not need to pay us as much.

Every single time work slows down, I think I'll get fired.  Every.Single.Time.  You sit in your office alone with your thoughts, and the very kind of mind that made you able to get into law school and get a decent job goes into overdrive and drives you straight over to anxiety-land. Did I mention that the work is dismal?

You will have several stupid ideas and days of panic before you figure this one out, but hang in there!

Nick_Miller

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2018, 08:18:20 AM »
Thanks for the continued suggestions and advice, everyone. I sincerely appreciate it.

I think it comes down to what @WalkaboutStache said. (I might very well read that book, thanks for the recommendation) Like him/her, my heart is not in it. I find the whole civil legal system dismal and depressing. That's the main problem. And I saw the criminal side of the legal system for a while when I was fresh out of law school. Holy crap. There's not enough $ in the world to entice me to prosecute or defend criminal cases. I found it SO depressing. Each defendant was a sad sack, had been given dozens of chances, screwed up dozens of times, made piss poor decisions on a daily basis, and finally basically forced the judge to send them to prison and eat up more taxpayer dollars so that the defendant can get hardened, learn new criminal skills, and come out with no prospects in a few years. What a fucking sad environment.

It's hard to get all revved about about professional development and networking when your heart isn't in the business in the first place. It's hard to think about "building your client base" when you're not sure you even want to be doing this in 2 years. I admittedly have been in coast mode for at least a year, maybe longer, but the slowing business have moved me to panic mode.

I get VERY revved up about marketing and development on my side gig. I read about how to design your website, how to market yourself, how to grow writing skills, how to network with other authors, agents, etc., how to communicate with readers, how to write engaging advertising copy/blurbs, etc etc.

But that's because Creatives are "my tribe." Attorneys are not.

Example 1: I go to CLE course. I say hi to a few folks and just sort of endure it, even if the topic is somewhat interesting.

Example 2: I to a writing conference. I soak up every nugget of info from panels, take copious notes, engage dozens of people in conversation, and I feel "at home."

I guess I will cling on to my job as long as it lasts. My sequel to my first book is releasing soon, and I'll see how much money it makes.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 08:23:23 AM by Nick_Miller »

MiserlyMiser

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2018, 04:29:21 PM »
From your comments about criminal law, it sounds like when you worked for government, you were in the public defenders' office?  I have a friend who used to practice litigation with me at a firm, who then joined the civil branch of the state DOJ.  He doesn't find the work challenging/interesting, but his schedule is 9-5 and he's so much happier with his life now. 

I sympathize with having trouble getting revved up about professional development/networking when your heart isn't in it--it's hard to fake the enthusiasm. 

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Attorney nervous about job situation (business is slowing)
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2018, 05:18:21 PM »
I do a fair amount of personal injury.  Here are a few places I get business that don't require you to go network.  The first is my state bar's referral program.  I have to pay 10% of receivables back to them but it is totally worth it.  I get a fair number of cases this way.  The second is to be part of employer sponsored legal insurance programs.  Some of the stuff won't pay enough for your time but by being on the list, you also get the big PI cases.  You have to discount your rate to 25% instead of 33% for some of the plans but again, it can be worth it.  I have to give phone advice as part of the deal and I only get $25 for those calls no matter how long they last.  But those calls are business development opportunities! When something else comes up for that client, they call me.  Another option is BNI or Netlunch or a similar group.  It's where people get together once a week or once a month to talk about what they do.  Then they all try to refer each other cases too.  Just getting your card out there is half the battle.  When people ask what I do, I don't just say I'm a lawyer.  I talk a bit about the kinds of cases I do.  Then I make a joke like "call me if you get in a car accident" or "if you need a divorce, you know who to call."  Non lawyers don't "get" what we do if we don't spell it out. 

I need to do way more business development myself for the hourly type of work that I use to supplement the PI.  Do you do any of that? Business litigation? Family law? I hate family law but happily take the minimally contested / no kid cases.  Easy money.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!