Author Topic: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD  (Read 13957 times)

lizzzi

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Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« on: December 24, 2017, 06:27:28 PM »
This afternoon (yes, Christmas Eve no less), my eight-pound yorkiepoo and I were just returning from an hour's walk around the apartment complex perimeter, when two pit bulls off leash and with no sign of an owner ran up to us silently and started to try to grab and bite my dog. I picked him up and held him as high as I could, shielding him with my coat, as they jumped all over me trying to reach him and bite him. They did not bite me, but would not stop doing this--would not leave me alone.  I was halfway between my entry door and the entry door of the apartment building across the parking lot, so headed for my own door.  I shielded my dog as best as I could, holding him up at about my own nose level so they could not reach him. I was wearing a puffy down coat, and this seemed to shield both him and me. I made it up the seven steps to my front stoop, and with difficulty was able to keep the pit bulls away from the door handle with my body, so I could open it and get myself in while keeping them out. (The outer entry door is not locked--was just a matter of shielding myself and my dog so I could get it open.) A very scary experience indeed. I did not scream for help, although I was on the verge of it, and afterwards I went around and warned everybody I could about what had happened. A couple people had seen these dogs running loose--the one other person who was out with his large boxer took his dog into his apartment immediately. These pit bulls looked well-maintained, and one was even wearing a Christmas sweater! I called the building's emergency on-call, just to apprise him of what had happened--he suggested I call the police. He mentioned that our complex has no pit bulls. (But many other kinds of dogs--it's a pet-friendly complex.) The pits were gone by this time, and I had a mandatory Christmas Eve commitment, so I did not call the police. The on-call said  that these were probably somebody's pets who had gotten loose somehow. I believe that is probably the case. I am very comfortable with dogs, and can honestly say that I've never felt afraid before around dogs--until today. I probably should have tried some voice commands, ("leave it" "no" "off" "go home") but I honestly was too busy trying to save my dog to do that. These pits meant business.

But anyway--my dog and I go outside for at least one hour and more like two hours every single day. What can I carry to protect us if we are ever in this situation again? Mace, pepper spray, bear spray...I think a gun would be overkill. (Forgive pun.) Anybody know what is effective and legal in New York State? I suppose I should start carrying my cell phone, too...but that won't deter an attacking pit bull. Sorry for the lengthy post, but this has shaken me up.

Case

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 06:53:54 PM »
I would have called police, or at least animal control.  If no action is taken, there can be no change.

Might not be too late, espeecially if you can ID the owners.  Even if they deny it (for example), at laest this gives them some hassle.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 06:54:24 PM »
I am so so sorry this happened to you. I hope your dog is okay!!

Call the police and call animal control ASAP. Both need to be aware, and give as much of a description as you can. This could have ended much, much worse and they need to locate and take those animals away or at minimum fine the owner for negligence and put them on notice.

The dogs are dangerous. Period. If they attacked a person trying to get to a small animal, they need to be taken away and put down regardless if they broke skin or not. You absolutely need to get them reported, before someone else is injured or killed. At the very least, they will eventually kill someone's beloved pet or small child if this isn't addressed.

As far as personal safety, my feeling is that any type of spray that has stopping power for a dog has the potential to hurt you or your own dog more than the attacking dog, so I'd likely look for a metal telescoping baton, or some other type of cane/baton type of weapon. I would use loud, firm commands/yelling, and hold my own pet away as best I could, and beat the ever loving shit out of any attacking dog and hope to heaven someone calls 911. I'd be yelling for help/call 911 if caught out with my own pet in that situation myself. 

I had a piece of shit neighbor that had a known vicious dog, that attacked and killed at least 2 small dogs in their own backyards, and it also ripped through our fencing and attacked and killed our 2 elderly cats (that never left our completely enclosed yard). I also suffered a very scary dog incident/attack as a child. I have no mercy for asshole owners that have dogs that potentially could hurt anyone else - they might have been a one time escape, but this is one time too many and if you hadn't been wearing a big puffy jacket and also were able to snatch your poor dog back quickly enough to not have been seriously injured, this could have been much, much worse. What if it was a 9 year old walking their little toy dog? They'd likely have been seriously injured or killed... call the police and call animal control RIGHT NOW.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 01:29:29 AM by Frankies Girl »

lizzzi

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 07:13:00 PM »
Thanks for the comments. I picked up the phone and called the police immediately after reading your advice--explained that I had not called sooner because I had a mandatory Christmas commitment at church and had to get there, but that I did feel I needed to report the incident. The police already knew about the situation--had received several calls about the two pits running around loose--their descriptions matched mine--these were definitely the same dogs. The police had been out looking, but the dogs were gone. So they are aware, and now have my additional information.

shuffler

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 07:21:58 PM »
The dogs are dangerous. Period. If they attacked a person trying to get to a small animal, they need to be taken away and put down regardless if they broke skin or not.
If I'm not mistaken from my reading the of post, the dogs didn't bite/attack her at all.
It's not clear whether they managed to actually bite the yorkie, though they tried.

It's definitely a bad situation.  But if they are "well maintained" and wearing a sweater, then I'd bet that the owners are reasonably responsible, and would be very willing to correct the behavior (and/or the potential for the dogs getting loose in the first place), rather than escalating to having to put the dogs down.

crispy

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 07:25:10 PM »
Please call the police and file a report. I was bit by an off leash dog a few years back. It was a small dog so not much damage, but I did file a police report so I had a case for recovering damages ( puncture wounds that required a trip to the ER for cleaning and a tetanus shot)  and in case it happened again. There are tons of kids in the neighborhood and although I wasn't seriously hurt,  a small child could be. 

I had actually been chased by this dog while walking in the neighborhood before so the owner had a history of letting it outside off leash. They had to have the dog quarantined and observed at their expense for a week to ensure the dog didn't have rabies. They were ticked off and lied to the police (said I came in their yard and taunted the dog) , but they were cited because they admitted the dog wasn't on a leash or in a fenced area.

All that to say, no damage was done today, but the next time it happens someone could  be hurt or killed. And there will be a next  time because irresponsible pet owners will continue to be irresponsible unless they are dealt consequences.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 07:47:59 PM »
The dogs are dangerous. Period. If they attacked a person trying to get to a small animal, they need to be taken away and put down regardless if they broke skin or not.
If I'm not mistaken from my reading the of post, the dogs didn't bite/attack her at all.
It's not clear whether they managed to actually bite the yorkie, though they tried.

It's definitely a bad situation.  But if they are "well maintained" and wearing a sweater, then I'd bet that the owners are reasonably responsible, and would be very willing to correct the behavior (and/or the potential for the dogs getting loose in the first place), rather than escalating to having to put the dogs down.

Nope. You are wrong; they did attack her as well - she mentioned that her big puffy coat protected her as they were jumping and pushing at her trying to reach her dog. She was lucky.

No quarter on this. Responsible means you don't allow any possibility of a large aggressive breed dog to get away from you. This is the very definition of NOT responsible. And if they had gotten out, at least if they'd been trained well, socialized well, and someone should have been freaking out and looking for them - it wouldn't be a real issue other than a nuisance. But apparently they'd been out long enough for several calls to have come in about them (according to the OP's update), that the owners are likely lazy/careless/assholes (pick any).

I've been attacked by a dog that was supposedly super sweet. It got out and ran around the neighborhood until it had worked itself into a frenzy and saw any movement (a small kid - me - riding my bike) as a prey animal and attacked. I was lucky to get away with only some glancing scratches/bites on my legs as I was near a steep hill that I rode down (scared out of my fucking mind) so I could outpace the dog. It was caught and put down as apparently wasn't the first time it had bitten someone. There were tons of dogs that got loose in my neighborhood growing up, and 99% of the time, they just goofed around and wanted petting. A dog that will attack another animal with humans present is a dog that is potentially too dangerous to trust. From what animal control told us, this is a red flag for a dog being a serious danger.

If a dog is aggressive enough to go after another dog, leaping and snapping at the owner as they tried to shove them away, then the dogs are dangerous. The owners may have had the best of intentions and bad luck, but they are still quite careless. You do not own dogs (especially ones that have a very poor reputation for being aggressive, so sorry nice pitbulls of the world) that are capable of attacking a human unless you are damned sure you keep them under control, well supervised and trained. Any oopsie bullshit  - oh my precious babies are just excited and busted out of the fence/ran out the door/what have you - they are negligent and should lose those animals, and they may need to be assessed for aggressiveness and put down.

I like animals. I volunteer with a wildlife rehabber and I have fostered both dogs and cats. But I also have no illusions about potentially dangerous or aggressive animals, and sometimes it is necessary to take a hard line when you have strong evidence of aggressive behavior. I'd absolutely expect them to be assessed by a professional (in my area, you can sue for a dangerous dog designation, and the owner is required to get a behavioral assessment from a licensed trainer to prove/disprove) and if they are deemed dangerous whether they can be rehabilitated or at least fostered with someone that isn't so careless and respects the breed. But putting them down is also a possibility and considering that they didn't have any issue with going at the OP trying to attack her dog and her coat is likely the only reason she isn't injured herself, this is a huge flashing neon sign that those dogs aren't right somehow.

I get that my opinion isn't going to be popular. But as someone that has been attacked, this is super, super horrible experience and I was super lucky and got away with only a few scars and emotional trauma. One more kid/person/pet that is attacked by an aggressive dog is one too many.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 08:04:49 PM by Frankies Girl »

doneby35

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 08:09:22 PM »
The breed itself is not aggressive unless you raised it to be aggressive. It is 100% the owner's fault and they should be held responsible when the police find out who they are. It's a shame that animals almost automatically are put down because of careless humans.

shuffler

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2017, 08:18:42 PM »
Nope. You are wrong; they did attack her as well - she mentioned that her big puffy coat protected her as they were jumping and pushing at her trying to reach her dog.
Hmm.  I read that as meaning that the thickness of the coat helped keep the dogs away from her yorkie as she held him up; it kept them further away from her.  Not that it was padding against being bitten herself.  Perhaps lizzzi will clarify, if she cares to.
I'd agree that if a human is attacked, then it's a different matter entirely.

lizzzi

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 08:42:14 PM »
Nope. You are wrong; they did attack her as well - she mentioned that her big puffy coat protected her as they were jumping and pushing at her trying to reach her dog.
Hmm.  I read that as meaning that the thickness of the coat helped keep the dogs away from her yorkie as she held him up; it kept them further away from her.  Not that it was padding against being bitten herself.  Perhaps lizzzi will clarify, if she cares to.
I'd agree that if a human is attacked, then it's a different matter entirely.

When they lunged at him on the ground, I immediately grabbed him,  picked him up and held him high, using my arms (in the big puffy coat) sort of as padding to shield him from the pits. He was not injured at all, but they were jumping on me to try to get to him. I was able to shield him well-enough for long enough to get to the apartment entry door--and they never tried to bite me--they wanted him, not me. I imagine my coat would have afforded me some protection--don't really know how much. I just started shaking again remembering it. Delayed reaction, I guess. Good thing I'm not afraid of dogs--I think staying calm probably helped the situation. I checked out telescoping batons for self defense, but they're not legal for either open or concealed carry in my state. I think the problem with sprays is that they could blow back into my eyes or my dog's--would depend on the wind, and who has time to figure that out in a crisis situation. Anyway, I'm glad I kept my cool and saved my dog--I have read stories about little dogs being attacked and killed, and I kind of had rehearsed mentally a plan to do just what I did. Next step would have been hollering for help, and after that, if I couldn't get them off me, to curl up in a ball on the ground with Bandit on the inside, protected by my body, and keeping my head and throat shielded, until help came. If I was alone, I could try kicking them in the head...but I don't think I could hold Bandit and do that--would lose my balance. Next thing I'm going to look for is some kind of collapsible walking stick that could bonk a dog but not get me in legal trouble as a weapon.

MrsPete

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2017, 08:48:47 PM »
You need to report this to both Animal Control and your Apartment Complex.  Make it official; in our state the law is that once a dog has three reports of attacks /bites, the animal will be destroyed.  Owners who may be quick to blow it off and say, "Not my dog!  He's such a sweetheart!" suddenly sit up and take note when they realize the dog has "one strike against it".  At the least, they'll work harder at keeping the dog on leash /contained.  It happened to my in-laws:  A new neighbor with an aggressive dog moved in, and it jumped the fence /badly injured their dog (surgery was necessary).  They were afraid to allow their children out in their own back yard.  Once they made an official report, the neighbors became so angry that they moved away as soon as possible. 

I'm not clear on whether your Yorkie was hurt.  If so, you must take the dog to the vet and take photographs of the injuries.  Again, this is all about maintaining records.  If you can't prove it happened, it didn't happen. 

Finally, yeah, yeah, it's not the breed -- it's irresponsible owners, how they're raised, etc., etc., etc.  But these particular dogs have proven themselves to be aggressive, and something needs to be done about them. 

Gin1984

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2017, 08:50:05 PM »
Nope. You are wrong; they did attack her as well - she mentioned that her big puffy coat protected her as they were jumping and pushing at her trying to reach her dog.
Hmm.  I read that as meaning that the thickness of the coat helped keep the dogs away from her yorkie as she held him up; it kept them further away from her.  Not that it was padding against being bitten herself.  Perhaps lizzzi will clarify, if she cares to.
I'd agree that if a human is attacked, then it's a different matter entirely.

When they lunged at him on the ground, I immediately grabbed him,  picked him up and held him high, using my arms (in the big puffy coat) sort of as padding to shield him from the pits. He was not injured at all, but they were jumping on me to try to get to him. I was able to shield him well-enough for long enough to get to the apartment entry door--and they never tried to bite me--they wanted him, not me. I imagine my coat would have afforded me some protection--don't really know how much. I just started shaking again remembering it. Delayed reaction, I guess. Good thing I'm not afraid of dogs--I think staying calm probably helped the situation. I checked out telescoping batons for self defense, but they're not legal for either open or concealed carry in my state. I think the problem with sprays is that they could blow back into my eyes or my dog's--would depend on the wind, and who has time to figure that out in a crisis situation. Anyway, I'm glad I kept my cool and saved my dog--I have read stories about little dogs being attacked and killed, and I kind of had rehearsed mentally a plan to do just what I did. Next step would have been hollering for help, and after that, if I couldn't get them off me, to curl up in a ball on the ground with Bandit on the inside, protected by my body, and keeping my head and throat shielded, until help came. If I was alone, I could try kicking them in the head...but I don't think I could hold Bandit and do that--would lose my balance. Next thing I'm going to look for is some kind of collapsible walking stick that could bonk a dog but not get me in legal trouble as a weapon.
Couple things, no your jacket did not help you at all.  What helped is these dogs obviously are not human aggressive.  But this leads to my second point.  DO NOT GET DOWN ON THE GROUND IN A BALL.  That is how you WILL get bit.  Scream, fine, good, going on the ground worse idea EVER.  Please don't even think of that as an idea.  Use your voice, not your body.  You are not going to win against two large dogs.

ysette9

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Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 08:58:14 PM »
I am sorry you went through this. It sounds scary and completely unacceptable.

I am concerned because two doors down from me is a ratty house with a crappy fence holding in (barely, so it seems) an aggressive pit bull. It barks and leaps whenever anyone walks by, which is All The Time as the house is next to a commercial strip. The dog sounds like it has already had something done to make the barking less loud. I won’t walk on the sidewalk in front of that house and choose to brave the cars in the street instead. It looks like it could just about jump the fence if it really wanted to and it scares my kid out of her mind. I wonder if there is anything I can or should do, or just prey the beast never manages to make a hole in the run-down fence?

I would love a sort of hand-held dog gun device that would blast a sound above our hearing range to stun a dog. I would use  it on that beast as well as the pack of yappy ankle biters across the way.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 10:16:35 AM by ysette9 »

shuffler

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2017, 09:25:41 PM »
He was not injured at all, but they were jumping on me to try to get to him. I was able to shield him well-enough for long enough to get to the apartment entry door--and they never tried to bite me--they wanted him, not me.
Thanks for clarifying.
I'm very glad that neither you nor your pup were physically injured.

As to the WWYD question, I think that if your state has some kind of "three strikes" mechanism (as mentioned above) that this would be an appropriate strike 1.  As harrowing as it was for you, I (myself) wouldn't push for putting the animals down based on this incident.  Reporting it, as you have done, is great.

I'd further hope the owners could be talked to, either by you or by some official of some sort.  If these pits are as cared for as you describe, I'd have to imagine that the owners would respond well to hearing of your traumatic experience.  And if not, then at least the authorities have your report to establish a track record.

lizzzi

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2017, 09:49:56 PM »
Nobody knows who the owners are--these were just a couple dogs running loose--not from our apartment complex--none of us had ever seen them before. I called the apartment complex right away--others apparently were calling the police--when I called the police some hours later, they were well-aware of the two loose pit bulls. The police had been out and looked for the dogs, but couldn't find them.

Yes, upon reflection, curling up in a ball on the ground would be a dumb idea. Never mind.

Zamboni

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2017, 10:09:01 PM »
You did an excellent job protecting your dog. Picking up a small dog when a larger unleashed dog approaches is pretty much the only hope. I had to do this numerous times when I had a small dog.

It is scary to have a leashed dog, even a bigger dog, and have even one other unleashed dog run at you. Two must have been extremely scary. Great job keeping your cool . . . walking to safety and not trying to run. . . you did exactly the right thing.

Voice commands will only work if the dogs are well trained . . . people with well trained dogs rarely let them roam free, so I doubt that would work other than the general use of a loud, stern voice sometimes distracting a dog. I might yell if I saw a dog going to attack someone else. But I have always stayed fairly quiet when facing an aggressive dog . . . I stay calm, hope the dog stays calm.

I would only curl up in a ball on the ground if I was already on the ground, for example if I have been knocked over. Otherwise keeping your face and neck high are a good call.  Don't run, because dogs like to chase. In your situation you likely couldn't distract the dogs away from your dog as the target, but if you are by yourself it can be helpful to swing something at the dog if you have it (purse, coat, backpack, whatever) to get the dog to focus on biting that instead of you.

Again, great job . . . you did exactly the right thing.

lhamo

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2017, 10:17:25 PM »
Do you have Nextdoor in your area?   This is the kind of thing that a neighborhood based forum can be very useful for -- if the owners of the dogs aren't active on it, maybe their direct neighbors or other people who know them might be.  I would just post a heads up to the owners of two pit bulls or whoever may know them, stating factually what happened (try to keep it non-dramatic, though it does sound scary), notifying them that you called the authorities and warning other people to be on the lookout for these aggressive dogs.

SimpleSpartan

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2017, 12:04:55 AM »
The breed itself is not aggressive unless you raised it to be aggressive. It is 100% the owner's fault and they should be held responsible when the police find out who they are. It's a shame that animals almost automatically are put down because of careless humans.


Pits are an aggresive breed... make up the majority of all dog bite attacks in the country and 82% of dog bite fatalities. While with the right training their aggression can be kept at bay. They are powerful, short-tempered, alpha dogs needing constant supervision are not a good set of traits for a pet.


https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

Case

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2017, 03:04:53 AM »
The breed itself is not aggressive unless you raised it to be aggressive. It is 100% the owner's fault and they should be held responsible when the police find out who they are. It's a shame that animals almost automatically are put down because of careless humans.


Pits are an aggresive breed... make up the majority of all dog bite attacks in the country and 82% of dog bite fatalities. While with the right training their aggression can be kept at bay. They are powerful, short-tempered, alpha dogs needing constant supervision are not a good set of traits for a pet.


https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

Yet there are a collective of people out there that defend them as an sweet companion.  I never get those people.  The risk is too high.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2017, 05:41:42 AM »
I'm glad the police were called and the complexbotifued. Don't feel bad if these dogs are put down. Their next attack could be a child or disabled person.

Zamboni

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2017, 06:14:45 AM »
I was attacked as a child by a neighbor's dog. The parents had invited me over to play (they had a girl my age, I think we were around 5 or 6 years old.) We couldn't play inside, they told me, because they said their dog was "mean", so we were in their backyard. Then her mom opened the back door and the dog bolted by her, straight for me, and latched on. Thank God the Mom was right behind it to intervene or I would be dead. I had 2 dogs as pets, and I certainly never taunted the dog or anything. In fact I never saw the dog until the moment before it came at me.

I can still see the dog squirting by the Mom in the doorway . . . and then I don't remember anything until the doctor was finishing up the bandaging.

Needless to say, I never was allowed to go over there again. That poor child had almost no friends . . . other parents wouldn't let their kids go over there after that, and her parents seemed very paranoid about letting her out of their sight. I lived 4 houses away from this girl for 18 years and probably saw her, even a glimpse, less than ten times. She went to a religious school and all of the other kids in our neighborhood went to the local public school.

I just don't get it. Why would you keep an animal like that with so many other dogs who need homes? We got a hound mix from the shelter last year; she is lovely and I have never once worried she will rip into my kids, their friends, or any of my other guests.

lizzzi

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2017, 07:47:36 AM »
Just jumping on again to say that as far as I know we don't have any kind of neighborhood ListServe or anything like that. We are a large apartment complex within city limits of a city of around 26,000 in the mid-Hudson valley of NY. But we are on the edge of the city--we back onto the woods, and neighboring houses are pretty spread out. We have no idea who the owners of those dogs could be--perhaps they belong to someone who was visiting friends or relatives in the area...just don't know. The dogs came down the hill from the woods, but did not look like they had been living rough. (The Christmas sweater...good Lord...certainly showed they had an owner and a home.) No sign of them today,  thank goodness. I am just thanking my lucky stars today that Bandit and I are all right. Thanks for the good words, Zamboni.

Rubyvroom

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2017, 08:29:03 AM »
I had something similar happen to me but in reverse of your situation. I was walking my Staffy (a 40lb bully breed) and saw a smaller fluffy dog bust out of its house about a block away, off leash. It saw us and started sprinting in our direction. I remember thinking, oh great, well there is no way this dog is going to cause any problems. My dog is larger and I can't really easily pick it up to get it out of harms way, and this little dog won't be that dumb... it'll slow down, it just wants to meet or play or something. NOPE. At a full charge this little fluffy wreck with a bow in its hair lunged at my dog and all hell broke loose. I trust my dog enough to be able to get in there with my hands, so I did, and I peeled the little dog away from my dog by its collar (thank goodness there was a collar). My dog was leashed so quite easy to control even though she was worked up.

I stood there for a solid 3-5 minutes waiting for someone to realize their dog got away. I felt like I had peeled two kids that had been fighting apart by their ears. Finally a person came over to collect the dog and he stopped about 10 feet away and his jaw dropped. He told me, "Oh my god, your dog could have KILLED her." I'm like, man, my dog COULD have killed your dog but she didn't and she certainly won't right now, so do you want to just get your dog please? He explained he's actually the neighbor of the owner. The owner is house-ridden and the dog is an escape artist, so he was being a good Samaritan and collecting her dog for her (again). I couldn't really be mad at the guy, but the irony wasn't lost on me that he was 100% frightened to even get close to my leashed, well behaved dog, after this little fluffy thing just instigated a rather loud but uneventful dog brawl.

This situation is never fun and I'm glad you were able to protect your dog. I don't know what I would have done had this been a much larger dog. I honestly probably would have kicked it and gotten myself bitten. I have read that a walking stick can work wonders, and don't be afraid to shout for help.

doneby35

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2017, 08:56:48 AM »
The breed itself is not aggressive unless you raised it to be aggressive. It is 100% the owner's fault and they should be held responsible when the police find out who they are. It's a shame that animals almost automatically are put down because of careless humans.


Pits are an aggresive breed... make up the majority of all dog bite attacks in the country and 82% of dog bite fatalities. While with the right training their aggression can be kept at bay. They are powerful, short-tempered, alpha dogs needing constant supervision are not a good set of traits for a pet.


https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php

Yet there are a collective of people out there that defend them as an sweet companion.  I never get those people.  The risk is too high.

I suggest you actually read about the history of the pit bull breed before making any quick judgments as to them being a high risk and the need to put them down etc.
https://stories.barkpost.com/pit-bulls-history-of-americas-dog/

If anything, humans are the most dangerous thing to ever exist on this planet, yet we don't just go around and yell "put them down", instead a lot of people are yelling "no death penalty".

Knapptyme

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2017, 10:12:56 AM »
I had something similar happen to me but in reverse of your situation. I was walking my Staffy (a 40lb bully breed) and saw a smaller fluffy dog bust out of its house about a block away, off leash. It saw us and started sprinting in our direction. I remember thinking, oh great, well there is no way this dog is going to cause any problems. My dog is larger and I can't really easily pick it up to get it out of harms way, and this little dog won't be that dumb... it'll slow down, it just wants to meet or play or something. NOPE. At a full charge this little fluffy wreck with a bow in its hair lunged at my dog and all hell broke loose. I trust my dog enough to be able to get in there with my hands, so I did, and I peeled the little dog away from my dog by its collar (thank goodness there was a collar). My dog was leashed so quite easy to control even though she was worked up.

I stood there for a solid 3-5 minutes waiting for someone to realize their dog got away. I felt like I had peeled two kids that had been fighting apart by their ears. Finally a person came over to collect the dog and he stopped about 10 feet away and his jaw dropped. He told me, "Oh my god, your dog could have KILLED her." I'm like, man, my dog COULD have killed your dog but she didn't and she certainly won't right now, so do you want to just get your dog please? He explained he's actually the neighbor of the owner. The owner is house-ridden and the dog is an escape artist, so he was being a good Samaritan and collecting her dog for her (again). I couldn't really be mad at the guy, but the irony wasn't lost on me that he was 100% frightened to even get close to my leashed, well behaved dog, after this little fluffy thing just instigated a rather loud but uneventful dog brawl.

This situation is never fun and I'm glad you were able to protect your dog. I don't know what I would have done had this been a much larger dog. I honestly probably would have kicked it and gotten myself bitten. I have read that a walking stick can work wonders, and don't be afraid to shout for help.

I believe this story to the full and am surprised by the animosity toward "bully breeds" in general. Yes, a big, strong dog can be intimidating. I have one (75 lb. dalmation/pit). Yes, it will kill a cat if it enters our back yard foolishly. A real problem is over aggressive little dogs like the above that get away with bad behavior because they do so little physical harm. People rarely even give them "strikes" for bites or attacks. Our big dog has been attacked by a little dog on two separate occasions while on walks with me. Both times, I thought, no way can this little dog be serious. Can they not see what they're up against? (One was on a leash attached to the owner. They didn't seem to mind that their little dog bit my dog's chin, and the fact that it was bleeding.) The evil in me wishes I would have let nature take its course and have my dog destroy the little things, but I try to be a good dog owner.

Understanding the OP had a harrowing experience, I am glad she is safe and contacted the authorities. While I try not to be too extreme, I do support euthanizing dogs who have been known to be over aggressive. The world has plenty of pleasant dogs of various shapes an sizes to love. The death penalty tangent could derail this thread, which is not my intent.

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MrsPete

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2017, 04:45:15 PM »
As to the WWYD question, I think that if your state has some kind of "three strikes" mechanism (as mentioned above) that this would be an appropriate strike 1.  As harrowing as it was for you, I (myself) wouldn't push for putting the animals down based on this incident.  Reporting it, as you have done, is great.
Based upon one incident, I agree that I wouldn't want to see them put down ... but if these dogs were to build up "three strikes", they need to go. 

Mongoose

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2017, 07:18:22 AM »
I'm so glad your dog is safe and you called the police. Several years ago one of our dogs was attacked by a pit mix that got loose. She had grabbed our dog by the skull before we had hardly seen her. DH, I, and our other small dog all fought back and got her off but it was extremely difficult to detach her jaws. The owners girlfriend finally came and got the dog but she was clearly frightened of it too. Fortunately our dog only ended up with minor injuries. Since then, I have carried a baseball bat when out walking the dogs, although honestly I'm not sure it would have made a difference. Recently, we had a very large dog (not a pit) who was off leash in a state park lunge at my 6 year old snarling and barking (kid hadn't done anything). I stepped in between them and yelled at the dog for continuing aggression. The jerk owners then proceeded to try to chew me out for yelling at their "nice" dog who was illegally off leash. I need to determine the legality of a baseball bat for hiking in our new state.

I hope those dogs aren't residents of your area and you don't encounter them again.

chasesfish

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2017, 07:35:11 AM »
So I'm going to avoid as much of the "aggressive breed" discussion as I can.  I have a mid-size hound, sweetest dog in the world, and at the same time I had a schnauzer growing up killed by a pair of blue-tick hounds that were trained hunting dogs.   Staffordshire Terriers "The American Pit Bull" were selectively bred as hunting dogs then used for much worse entertainment.  What's bad is they're a large powerful breed and "rescues" were often once trained to be dog aggressive.  A lot of the terrier breeds will go after 10lb dogs because that's what they were trained for.  Hell, my brother in law's pet schnauzer puppy sees my in-laws yorkie and thinks its a rodent.  The schnauzer was originally bred to go into rodent holes and drag out the prey.   Part is breeding, part is training.   The hunting breeds shouldn't be running around off leashed.  This isn't a lab who was bred for years to retrieve ducks without injuring the meat. 

I'm also married to a vet and have been around some pit bulls that are the sweetest dogs I've ever met, especially those raised as puppies in a family with kids and other dogs.


Now to the original poster's question, I would recommend carrying around one of the retractable police batons / self defense sticks.  There's no guarantee next time you can pickup your dog in time.  It may not be a pit bull, it may be a coyote or bobcat that decides its a meal.  You've made the choice to have a 10lb dog, which is essentially like walking food around on a restraint.  Its like having chained goat in Jurassic Park, be prepared to defend it.

Proud Foot

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2017, 09:25:13 AM »
I checked out telescoping batons for self defense, but they're not legal for either open or concealed carry in my state....

Next thing I'm going to look for is some kind of collapsible walking stick that could bonk a dog but not get me in legal trouble as a weapon.

Sorry this happened to you lizzzi. Since a baton is not legal I would do like you suggested in your last sentence. Find you a baseball bat, walking stick, cane, etc that is not considered a weapon but could be used effectively for self defense and not get you into trouble if you did have to use it as a weapon.

JLee

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2017, 09:55:50 AM »
Next thing I'm going to look for is some kind of collapsible walking stick that could bonk a dog but not get me in legal trouble as a weapon.

It's not cheap, but: https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/09/unbreakable-umbrella-real-self-defense/

Reynolds531

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
I'm so glad your dog is safe and you called the police. Several years ago one of our dogs was attacked by a pit mix that got loose. She had grabbed our dog by the skull before we had hardly seen her. DH, I, and our other small dog all fought back and got her off but it was extremely difficult to detach her jaws. The owners girlfriend finally came and got the dog but she was clearly frightened of it too. Fortunately our dog only ended up with minor injuries. Since then, I have carried a baseball bat when out walking the dogs, although honestly I'm not sure it would have made a difference. Recently, we had a very large dog (not a pit) who was off leash in a state park lunge at my 6 year old snarling and barking (kid hadn't done anything). I stepped in between them and yelled at the dog for continuing aggression. The jerk owners then proceeded to try to chew me out for yelling at their "nice" dog who was illegally off leash. I need to determine the legality of a baseball bat for hiking in our new state.

I hope those dogs aren't residents of your area and you don't encounter them again.

Thanks from this dad. I'm going to be in full on Negan mode for the rest of the day now.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2017, 10:09:00 AM »
Sorry for what happened to you, but the dogs breed has very little to do with it.

lizzzi

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2017, 10:21:55 AM »
Thanks again for all the useful comments. I have a family member in another state who is in law enforcement and has access to a police supply place--I am going to be kitted out with a couple of things that should be helpful in a dog attack. I don't want to say too much because what is legal in her state isn't necessarily legal in my state--but I'd rather be arrested by the troopers than killed by a dog.

I agree with Chases Fish upthread, who said having a little dog is like having prey at the end of the leash. I was thinking it is like having chickens in the back yard--Everything wants to eat them. Yes, I do feel that I have to be ready to defend myself and my eight-pound dog at any juncture. I never would have gotten such a small dog in the first place, but I needed something non-threatening to the little pre-school grandchildren--a dog who could not knock them over--so they could interact with and learn about dogs. The kids helped me pick him out. That piece of the plan has worked out very well. Now I just have to keep Bandit and me alive.

BTDretire

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2017, 10:29:35 AM »
As to the WWYD question, I think that if your state has some kind of "three strikes" mechanism (as mentioned above) that this would be an appropriate strike 1.  As harrowing as it was for you, I (myself) wouldn't push for putting the animals down based on this incident.  Reporting it, as you have done, is great.
Based upon one incident, I agree that I wouldn't want to see them put down ... but if these dogs were to build up "three strikes", they need to go.

 I don't know about this three stike nonsense. Can we give the human three strikes for carrying a weapon to protect him or herself from the dog with a strike or two!

chasesfish

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2017, 05:11:52 PM »
Best of luck Lizzi, I think you'll be fine with a baton even if it isn't *really* legal in your state.  Just plead ignorance and say a friend in law enforcement in another state gave it to you and move on.  I'm so sorry for what you went through, I know it was awful.

Cali Nonya

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2017, 06:03:01 PM »
Just putting in a comment on using mace (pepper spray).  My sister who has dogs had the problem with an aggressive dog that the owners would leave out unattended in the front yard and would chase down and try to bite her and her dogs when walking.  She did talk to the owners and put in a complaint with animal control, but unless there is an incident, they don't actually do anything.  Mace was the recommendation (it's actually a pepper spray). 

She did get a can to walk with, and did mace the dog when it came after her again.  She called in and reported it to animal control right after she sprayed the dog.  Of course the owners were pissed that their dog got maced, but you are on the right side of the law if you are defending yourself or your dog, and to be sure to be on the safe side of the law, report the incident if you have to use a deterrent against a loose dog.  (It does cause extreme pain in the dog, but no lasting injury)

The recommendation is if you have never used mace, get an extra and practice at least once.  Also carry it on a belt clip, or another way where it is easily accessible (I think my sisters was on a clip along with the doggy-poop bags, so something she would have in her hands when walking).

Deterrent mace is a rather small can.  Don't use bear spray, that is would be over-kill for any sized dog, and has a much further spray distance.  My sister had a previous incident when walking when two large loose dogs cornered and attacked her and her dogs, so she always carries a can of pepper spray now.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 07:48:42 PM by Cali Nonya »

pecunia

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2017, 07:43:54 PM »
People ought to be able to walk through town without being accosted by animals.

Ever notice how once in a while some dog owners blame you for the bad behavior of their dogs?

Seems like once in a while you hear of a kid dying due to a dog attack.  Usually seems to be one of these Pit Bull breeds.

Barking dogs never bite?  Hmmmmm, how do they eat?

If dogs can disturb people barking all hours of the night, am I allowed to do it?

beardsweater

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2017, 09:07:55 AM »
To those who don’t think pit bulls are dangerous, I work in healthcare and have seen at least ten young kids with serious dog bites requiring surgery under general anesthesia over the last 3 years or so. Every single attack on a child was by a pit bull with the exception of one German Shepherd.  Sure this is anecdotal but I despise the breed, even though I am a dog person/owner.  A co-worker is mine was also attacked by an off leash pit bull last year, it killed her small dog and seriously injured her requiring surgery on her arm and several weeks of missed work.

Bourbon

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2017, 09:14:09 AM »
I had a similar many years ago.  Walking my ~45 lbs Chow mutt when a pit bull jumped a fence.  My dog did a quick jump backwards, slipper her collar and ran home.  Meanwhile the pits circled me, grabbed my jeans and tore them but did not bite me.  I yelled and they backed off.

Got cash from the owner to cover the jeans, sounded like she had just had pups, but still.  Probably should have reported, but was young and just happy not to be harmed.

That said, I also went on to foster many pits and other breeds for the Humane society when we moved, and many sweet dogs.

ysette9

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2017, 09:43:16 AM »
As a non-dog person who has never dig into the research, I find it fascinating that I read two such polar opposite accountings of pit bulls: one side says they are traine and bread for violence and responsible for an outsized portion of dog injuries. The other side says this is hogwash and unfairly smears a bread that can be sweet and just needs good owners.

This leaves me wondering where actual evidence falls and how we can continue to have such diametrically opposing viewpoints being discussed. Surely facts should come in at some point to help settle, or at least moderate the debate? 

JoJo

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2017, 09:56:29 AM »
Pitbulls are like babies. 

ysette9

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2017, 10:11:03 AM »
Pitbulls are like babies.
Loud, barfy, sleep poorly, needy, with dirty diapers?

I don’t get it.

JoJo

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2017, 10:25:31 AM »
Pitbulls are like babies.
Loud, barfy, sleep poorly, needy, with dirty diapers?

I don’t get it.

Not everyone should have them.  Get a bad parent, increase the chance of bad baby/pitbull.

Lady SA

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2017, 11:10:41 AM »
I'll put in another vote for pepper spray/mace. I would worry a club would just antagonize an aggressive dog and/or injure it and you could be sued by a nasty owner, whereas capsaicin spray deters and temporarily incapacitates a dog but leaves no lasting damage.

Don't use bear spray. Bear spray is outrageously potent and intended to stop a 600 lb animal. Even the biggest dog won't be larger than like 150 lbs. I go backcountry camping and always carry bear spray and am very familiar with how to use it. Because bear spray is so powerful, they suggest after using you remove all your clothing that may have been contaminated.

Mace/pepper spray is much less potent but still packs a punch. It is stored in a can with a directional spray spout. You point it at the animal and pull the trigger, and unless there is a strong headwind, you won't get spray blowback. Mace is intended to be aimed, it doesn't really disperse into a cloud that hits everyone in the general vicinity (unless you hang around afterward), otherwise it wouldn't really be useful if it incapacitated the mace owner as well as the person/animal he is defending himself against. If there is wind, you can slowly circle/rotate until they are downwind of you and then pull the trigger. It can also work in close quarters.

If you are worried about accidentally hitting your dog with the spray too, a wash with gentle soap and rinsing his eyes with cool water should quickly stop the stinging. And if you pick up the pup first before spraying, your dog should be "behind" the spray and not hit with blowback, but I would still give him an eye rinse and a bath when you get home.

Sibley

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2017, 02:16:58 PM »
I had something similar happen to me but in reverse of your situation. I was walking my Staffy (a 40lb bully breed) and saw a smaller fluffy dog bust out of its house about a block away, off leash. It saw us and started sprinting in our direction. I remember thinking, oh great, well there is no way this dog is going to cause any problems. My dog is larger and I can't really easily pick it up to get it out of harms way, and this little dog won't be that dumb... it'll slow down, it just wants to meet or play or something. NOPE. At a full charge this little fluffy wreck with a bow in its hair lunged at my dog and all hell broke loose. I trust my dog enough to be able to get in there with my hands, so I did, and I peeled the little dog away from my dog by its collar (thank goodness there was a collar). My dog was leashed so quite easy to control even though she was worked up.

I stood there for a solid 3-5 minutes waiting for someone to realize their dog got away. I felt like I had peeled two kids that had been fighting apart by their ears. Finally a person came over to collect the dog and he stopped about 10 feet away and his jaw dropped. He told me, "Oh my god, your dog could have KILLED her." I'm like, man, my dog COULD have killed your dog but she didn't and she certainly won't right now, so do you want to just get your dog please? He explained he's actually the neighbor of the owner. The owner is house-ridden and the dog is an escape artist, so he was being a good Samaritan and collecting her dog for her (again). I couldn't really be mad at the guy, but the irony wasn't lost on me that he was 100% frightened to even get close to my leashed, well behaved dog, after this little fluffy thing just instigated a rather loud but uneventful dog brawl.

This situation is never fun and I'm glad you were able to protect your dog. I don't know what I would have done had this been a much larger dog. I honestly probably would have kicked it and gotten myself bitten. I have read that a walking stick can work wonders, and don't be afraid to shout for help.

I believe this story to the full and am surprised by the animosity toward "bully breeds" in general. Yes, a big, strong dog can be intimidating. I have one (75 lb. dalmation/pit). Yes, it will kill a cat if it enters our back yard foolishly. A real problem is over aggressive little dogs like the above that get away with bad behavior because they do so little physical harm. People rarely even give them "strikes" for bites or attacks. Our big dog has been attacked by a little dog on two separate occasions while on walks with me. Both times, I thought, no way can this little dog be serious. Can they not see what they're up against? (One was on a leash attached to the owner. They didn't seem to mind that their little dog bit my dog's chin, and the fact that it was bleeding.) The evil in me wishes I would have let nature take its course and have my dog destroy the little things, but I try to be a good dog owner.

Understanding the OP had a harrowing experience, I am glad she is safe and contacted the authorities. While I try not to be too extreme, I do support euthanizing dogs who have been known to be over aggressive. The world has plenty of pleasant dogs of various shapes an sizes to love. The death penalty tangent could derail this thread, which is not my intent.

Demand that they pay the vet bill to get it checked out, and produce proof of rabies vaccination. If they don't have proof of rabies vaccination, you can always call the police and ask that they require the animal to be tested (IE, killed and their brain examined) or held in quarantine to determine if it's diseased. Of course, I'm a bit of a bitch when it comes to bad animal owners.

Blatant

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2017, 07:54:40 AM »
Simple. One side of the argument likely could not accurately identify a bull breed and any aggressive dog is automatically a “pit bull.” Or you have folks in this thread linking to outside sites that clearly promote breed-specific legislation. Do your own investigation into non-partisan bite stats.

And then you have people with actual experience who know that bull breeds are exceptional family members. Unless — as is often the case — they’re paired with shitty humans.

As a non-dog person who has never dig into the research, I find it fascinating that I read two such polar opposite accountings of pit bulls: one side says they are traine and bread for violence and responsible for an outsized portion of dog injuries. The other side says this is hogwash and unfairly smears a bread that can be sweet and just needs good owners.

This leaves me wondering where actual evidence falls and how we can continue to have such diametrically opposing viewpoints being discussed. Surely facts should come in at some point to help settle, or at least moderate the debate?

SimpleSpartan

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2017, 10:15:03 AM »
Pitbulls are like babies.

Babies dont kill other babies

JLee

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2017, 10:17:34 AM »
Best of luck Lizzi, I think you'll be fine with a baton even if it isn't *really* legal in your state.  Just plead ignorance and say a friend in law enforcement in another state gave it to you and move on.  I'm so sorry for what you went through, I know it was awful.

I wouldn't want to try that in New York.  You may have better luck outside of NYC, but New York does not have a great reputation for fair laws. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/opinion/new-yorks-outdated-knife-law.html

JLee

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Re: Attacked by Two Pit Bulls--WWYD
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2017, 10:20:38 AM »
I'll put in another vote for pepper spray/mace. I would worry a club would just antagonize an aggressive dog and/or injure it and you could be sued by a nasty owner, whereas capsaicin spray deters and temporarily incapacitates a dog but leaves no lasting damage.

Don't use bear spray. Bear spray is outrageously potent and intended to stop a 600 lb animal. Even the biggest dog won't be larger than like 150 lbs. I go backcountry camping and always carry bear spray and am very familiar with how to use it. Because bear spray is so powerful, they suggest after using you remove all your clothing that may have been contaminated.

Mace/pepper spray is much less potent but still packs a punch. It is stored in a can with a directional spray spout. You point it at the animal and pull the trigger, and unless there is a strong headwind, you won't get spray blowback. Mace is intended to be aimed, it doesn't really disperse into a cloud that hits everyone in the general vicinity (unless you hang around afterward), otherwise it wouldn't really be useful if it incapacitated the mace owner as well as the person/animal he is defending himself against. If there is wind, you can slowly circle/rotate until they are downwind of you and then pull the trigger. It can also work in close quarters.

If you are worried about accidentally hitting your dog with the spray too, a wash with gentle soap and rinsing his eyes with cool water should quickly stop the stinging. And if you pick up the pup first before spraying, your dog should be "behind" the spray and not hit with blowback, but I would still give him an eye rinse and a bath when you get home.

You've got the strengths reversed.  Bear spray is (dramatically) weaker:

On the other hand, bear mace is designed with intention of mere deterrence and not incapacitation; consequently, its OC concentration is, relatively speaking, a bit milder – just sufficient for impairing an animal’s respiratory and visual faculties long enough for the would-be victim to get out of the danger zone.​