Author Topic: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.  (Read 10913 times)

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2023, 09:12:34 AM »
Well, when it comes to jobs, it will depend on what your skills are.

I have a huge range in terms of background skills and can easily find job listings that would be a bit of a stretch for me, but not require too much upskilling.

I have a very casual part time job moderating Zoom meetings that pays over $30/hr and provided full training. It's mostly for condo corporation AGMs, and my qualification was being on a condo board for less than a year.

I took a $14 course on technical writing and picked up a few contracts for technical writing based on my professional background. I didn't about it, so I didn't keep doing it.

I have a huge background in working with kids and could easily pick up $50+/hr tutoring jobs, especially for ESL university students who need help with APA writing.

I've done quite a bit of non profit fundraising work, and there are always jobs for fundraisers.

I let work in 2020 and spent a lot of time contemplating my options and found a ridiculous amount of low investment upskilling opportunities. Ultimately I decided to just go full grad school because I really like school, but it took me 2 years to make that decision.

And I had the same desire, to kind of run around the world living nomadically. Now, that didn't work out because I need extensive, intensive orthopedic surgeries, but I'm still pretty much living the dream by living at my regular home when I need surgery and living out in a crazy, remote, bucket list destination with tons of adventure opportunity between surgeries.

That wasn't my plan. I had no idea I would need the lower half of my body hacked into bits and put back together when I quit. I wasn't thinking of buying maritime real estate. I had actively decided *against* the grad school program I'm now in.

You can't actually figure out what you will do now. You can't make decisions for your future self. Your future self is wiser and knows themselves better than you ever possibly could, and they will make whatever decisions they feel is best.

Current you can only decide that it's best to leave your current job. That's it. You can have some ideas of what you might want to do, but you have zero control over it.

Once you leave your job, you will rapidly start becoming a different person with very different needs.

There's something worth noting: only unmet needs are motivating.

The unmet needs you have when stuck in a full time job that isn't making you happy are RADICALLY different from the unmet needs of being financially stable, but unemployed.

Your entire motivation profile will alter profoundly once you change the balance of your unmet needs. It's kind of batshit crazy.

Don't worry, your future self is wiser and more equipped than you are to figure out what needs are most important for your post-job self. Present you doesn't have a damn clue what you will need, so don't waste your energy trying to answer riddles you can't solve.

You will figure it out, I promise you that. A version of yourself that is infinitely more equipped to judge what your priorities will be will figure this all out for you.

All YOU need to do is figure out if it's time to leave your job.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2023, 11:55:48 PM »
If you want a work adventure, there are usually a wide variety of remote work jobs in rural Alaska. Often they are 2 weeks on 2 weeks off which allows a lot of time to travel while making decent money because of the overtime. Jobs range from cooking and cleaning all the way up to engineering. Basically anything that has to be done on location to support remote mining, military, communications, oil fields, and even some city management type jobs.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2023, 08:03:59 AM »
... You can't actually figure out what you will do now. You can't make decisions for your future self. Your future self is wiser and knows themselves better than you ever possibly could, and they will make whatever decisions they feel is best.

Current you can only decide that it's best to leave your current job. That's it. You can have some ideas of what you might want to do, but you have zero control over it.

Once you leave your job, you will rapidly start becoming a different person with very different needs.

There's something worth noting: only unmet needs are motivating.

The unmet needs you have when stuck in a full time job that isn't making you happy are RADICALLY different from the unmet needs of being financially stable, but unemployed.

Your entire motivation profile will alter profoundly once you change the balance of your unmet needs. It's kind of batshit crazy.

Don't worry, your future self is wiser and more equipped than you are to figure out what needs are most important for your post-job self. Present you doesn't have a damn clue what you will need, so don't waste your energy trying to answer riddles you can't solve.

You will figure it out, I promise you that. A version of yourself that is infinitely more equipped to judge what your priorities will be will figure this all out for you.

All YOU need to do is figure out if it's time to leave your job.
I just read this five times including once out loud, screamed & wailed a little in my head, rubbed my eyes, was thrilled & terrified to see the words all still there... but actually I think this crystallized something for me that I'd been snatching at fruitlessly for a good while. I'm so used to being a planner, I don't think I've felt "allowed" to ever not know what I'm trying to do.

OP, good job landing the city parks offer. With all the respect in the world for how intimidating it is, I'd pull the plug before your terrorist boss returns so you don't run the risk of being beaten back into the survival mode pattern. Moreover it would let you start that self-expanding time, maybe go somewhere spur of the moment for a few days or weeks, then see if you do or don't feel like working the city parks job until you can get some more time off. Having to make decisions from a place of duress tends to lead to suboptimal decisions.

Travel is extremely good for changing your brain's sense of limitations on what's possible, too. It's a profound routine break, spurs a bunch of ideation. You don't have to go to the ends of the earth for that (although you could) - I'd just look for something sufficiently different, either a totally different natural environment or a (preferably very walkable) cityscape unlike home, even for just a few days. I've lived on other continents before, but even just the US is so huge & weird you can end up with a lot of the same beneficial difference under a couple hundred miles. It also doesn't have to be terribly structured. I'll revisit the thought from earlier within the travel context: do you have any friends who moved away to a place with any natural, historical, or cultural interest? Maybe ask them what's worth seeing where they are; possibly let them know you're headed there already & offer to take them to lunch if they'll pick the place & help suggest other local highlights.

I think the sense of wanting to live (vs. comparison-based FOMO) is the healthy impulse to lean into. Having novel experiences that form strong memories gives a much richer sense of time passing with a valuable return. It feels really absurd, how survival mode completely opposes actually living.

(If it seems odd that I express relating so closely but also have several converse experiences, most of my life has been survival mode, with a four year break for college that I tried to live as intensely as I could.)

Omy

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2023, 09:56:54 AM »
Well, when it comes to jobs, it will depend on what your skills are.

I have a huge range in terms of background skills and can easily find job listings that would be a bit of a stretch for me, but not require too much upskilling.

I have a very casual part time job moderating Zoom meetings that pays over $30/hr and provided full training. It's mostly for condo corporation AGMs, and my qualification was being on a condo board for less than a year.

I took a $14 course on technical writing and picked up a few contracts for technical writing based on my professional background. I didn't about it, so I didn't keep doing it.

I have a huge background in working with kids and could easily pick up $50+/hr tutoring jobs, especially for ESL university students who need help with APA writing.

I've done quite a bit of non profit fundraising work, and there are always jobs for fundraisers.

I let work in 2020 and spent a lot of time contemplating my options and found a ridiculous amount of low investment upskilling opportunities. Ultimately I decided to just go full grad school because I really like school, but it took me 2 years to make that decision.

And I had the same desire, to kind of run around the world living nomadically. Now, that didn't work out because I need extensive, intensive orthopedic surgeries, but I'm still pretty much living the dream by living at my regular home when I need surgery and living out in a crazy, remote, bucket list destination with tons of adventure opportunity between surgeries.

That wasn't my plan. I had no idea I would need the lower half of my body hacked into bits and put back together when I quit. I wasn't thinking of buying maritime real estate. I had actively decided *against* the grad school program I'm now in.

You can't actually figure out what you will do now. You can't make decisions for your future self. Your future self is wiser and knows themselves better than you ever possibly could, and they will make whatever decisions they feel is best.

Current you can only decide that it's best to leave your current job. That's it. You can have some ideas of what you might want to do, but you have zero control over it.

Once you leave your job, you will rapidly start becoming a different person with very different needs.

There's something worth noting: only unmet needs are motivating.

The unmet needs you have when stuck in a full time job that isn't making you happy are RADICALLY different from the unmet needs of being financially stable, but unemployed.

Your entire motivation profile will alter profoundly once you change the balance of your unmet needs. It's kind of batshit crazy.

Don't worry, your future self is wiser and more equipped than you are to figure out what needs are most important for your post-job self. Present you doesn't have a damn clue what you will need, so don't waste your energy trying to answer riddles you can't solve.

You will figure it out, I promise you that. A version of yourself that is infinitely more equipped to judge what your priorities will be will figure this all out for you.

All YOU need to do is figure out if it's time to leave your job.

This is a timely reminder that resonates for me as well. I just received news that is inspiring me to "change the 10 year plan" and do things that past me would never consider.

A wonderful older tenant who I thought would never move out has just given notice. Old me would have jumped into finding a new tenant and lining up contractors or possibly looking for a newer property for a 1031 exchange. New me is taking the time to look at all my options and probably going to choose the option that simplifies my life but is NOT financially optimal.

Old me would have had stern words for new me, but new me is the one who isn't a fan of landlording and wants to lighten her load and enjoy her life.

It's important to realize that you can pivot at any time if you have financial security and/or the confidence to know that you'll figure it out as you go. One of my favorite MMM articles on the topic:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2018/03/09/money-and-confidence-are-interchangeable/
« Last Edit: April 10, 2023, 10:01:42 AM by Omy »

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2023, 10:21:42 AM »
The key is to not get stuck in old scripts.

This is why I always talk about past self, present self, and future self.

We can easily become stuck in beliefs and attitudes that we developed in the past and decided at that time were "good." Whenever I feel I "should" do something or feel conflicted about what I want to do, I try to remind myself that a past, less wise version of myself came up with those expectations and "rules" and that I know better than she did when she developed them.

I never let a past version of myself dictate my present and I I always try to remember that my present self doesn't get to dictate what my future self does.

I always, always try to keep in mind that with every decision, I have the option to go against anything and everything I've ever believed was a good idea if that's what is truly best in that moment.

In fact, I hold the attitude that if my 10 year plan doesn't change over 10 years, then I should worry that I haven't learned enough and haven't gained enough wisdom to know meaningfully more than I did when I made that plan.

The day my life looks like I expected it to look 10 years ago will be the day I realize that I've stagnated and should probably shake shit up.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2023, 10:53:08 AM »
Kudos, op, on your progress!  I'm a bit late to this thread even though I love vocational threads and sympathize because I am all too familiar with that burnout feeling.  (Not now, but back earlier in my career.) 

I fully second everything said by @Laura33 and @Metalcat 

You need to get some clear space - time off, quitting or whatever - to clear your head and think about what's next. 

Here are two invaluable resources that DW and I both used.  One is career coaching in a book, basically, and it's fantastic about thinking through where you're going to be a good fit economically and aptitude-wise: this book.

Second, I highly recommend aptitude testing with the Johnson O'Connor Foundation.  It takes about two full days (including results/consultation), but it has literally helped DW and I with every single job decision since - even within one career path/field. 

It clarifies what sorts of things that you're naturally very good at, which, in both of our cases (and many others) don't really align perfectly with the things you're interested in and think that you would like to do.  I took advice from that and the last three jobs that I have had have all been better and better fits for me (and paid better as well, as I'm moving into areas that I'm better and better at). 

So, if you're struggling with what's next, check those out and also @Metalcat 's many good suggestions re: things you might be able to do as well.  You'll likely find better things the more you work at that.  But regardless, check out the ideas above - I know they were immensely helpful to me and many others. 

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2023, 05:31:21 AM »
Thank you so much, everyone. I'm going to post again tonight to address some very eye-opening things you've said, but first I want to let you guys know that I put in my notice yesterday. It was terrifying, tbh! My brain kept trying to get me to back out literally right up until the moment I told my boss I was resigning. He didn't throw a tantrum, he went into damage control mode and wanted me to assure him that it wasn't anything he did. I bit my tongue and told him that it was just time for me to move on--knowing his hostility towards anything that might even sound like criticism, there was nothing to be gained from telling him that, in fact, his atrocious behavior is the very specific reason why I can't work there anymore. Feeling a heady blend of emotions: anxious, nervous, relieved, disbelief, hopeful. My last day is in the first week of May, so I'll have health insurance that'll carry over for another month.

The parks job gave me an offer and it's not great: 55k (which in my city does not get you very far at all) and only partial benefits--I would need to pay 50% of the health insurance premiums, which don't kick in until 3 months into the job. It's a small non-profit, not a government job, so that makes sense I guess. The hiring manager is talking with finance to see if they can bump it to 60k, and I'll make my decision when he gets back to me about that. I would be able to meet all my basic expenses, with nothing left over if I wanted to go out to dinner or get a drink or anything like--I don't do that stuff often, and I have my savings to draw from if I need to. And it might be worth doing just to get a different title in a different industry on my resume, something that maybe I could parlay into a government parks job with proper benefits. Plus it sounds like a cool job with nice people. Or maybe it's best to decline, let myself be unemployed for a while to decompress, and put my time and effort into getting something that pays more. I'm not really sure what the best move is! Naturally I'm feeling A Lot at the moment, so not necessarily thinking clearly haha.

rockeTree

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2023, 06:00:34 AM »
I am so glad you got out of there. It sounded like that gig was destroying you.

Can't tell you what to do about the parks job but it's a nice choice to be able to have - maybe you will be able to think more clearly about it now that you know you are leaving your current job. Maybe you will do it for a month and hate it, maybe you will do it for the rest of your career and love it, maybe you will go camping for the summer and think about jobs in the fall, but you are on the road to healing up from this.

Laura33

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2023, 06:44:12 AM »
Dude, congratulations -- I'm so proud of you!!

Omy

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2023, 07:02:58 AM »
What an awesome update!

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2023, 09:02:06 AM »
Literally cheered out loud when I read this!!

What rockeTree said about "a nice choice to be able to have." Hopefully quitting this one will help cement the idea that jobs are not for life - you can quit whenever the benefits stop eclipsing the costs. (At least that's what I'm hoping for myself....)

Omy

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2023, 09:54:56 AM »
A friend of mine took a job for a month...and jumped when a much better opportunity came his way. Corporations aren't loyal to us, so there's no reason to be loyal to them. Make the best decision you can in the moment and be open to whatever comes your way. "Sorry, but this just isn't a good fit" is an easy way to jump out of the parks job if/when a better opportunity shows up. And the better opportunity may show up BECAUSE you took the parks job.

ysette9

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2023, 09:44:40 PM »
Congratulations on giving your notice. That is excellent news and I’m happy for you.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2023, 11:16:53 PM »
Yay! Congratulations Ford Prefect!

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2023, 06:34:00 AM »
Thank you everyone for your encouragement! It still feels very surreal and I keep thinking to myself, "I can't believe I did that."

You can't actually figure out what you will do now. You can't make decisions for your future self. Your future self is wiser and knows themselves better than you ever possibly could, and they will make whatever decisions they feel is best.

Current you can only decide that it's best to leave your current job. That's it. You can have some ideas of what you might want to do, but you have zero control over it.

Once you leave your job, you will rapidly start becoming a different person with very different needs.

There's something worth noting: only unmet needs are motivating.

The unmet needs you have when stuck in a full time job that isn't making you happy are RADICALLY different from the unmet needs of being financially stable, but unemployed.

Your entire motivation profile will alter profoundly once you change the balance of your unmet needs. It's kind of batshit crazy.

Don't worry, your future self is wiser and more equipped than you are to figure out what needs are most important for your post-job self. Present you doesn't have a damn clue what you will need, so don't waste your energy trying to answer riddles you can't solve.

You will figure it out, I promise you that. A version of yourself that is infinitely more equipped to judge what your priorities will be will figure this all out for you.

All YOU need to do is figure out if it's time to leave your job.

This is really illuminating and I've been re-reading it every morning. My brain is spinning like crazy and I'm doing my best to do my anxiety-mediating exercises to calm it down. I'm still a little terrified that I'll use up all my savings and find myself in a position with few options, but I'm trying to tell myself to take it one day at a time and something will come together if I'm patient and tenacious.

 If it's cool with you, I'd like to share my thoughts about the future as they stand right now (subject to change, of course) For context, I'm 38, unmarried and childless, live in NYC, don't own a car, and my apartment lease is up December 1st.

-  I just got my learner's permit, and I'm going to take pre-certification course. I know how to drive, but I haven't driven in 10 years and my state makes you do the whole thing process over again if your license expires, which I foolishly let happen before I knew that. I have a couple local friends with cars who will let me practice and drive me to the road test when I'm ready. I think these could be important steps towards expanding my opportunities.

-  The parks job hasn't gotten back to my yet as they're doing a bunch of hiring and trying to figure out their budget. I think even if they don't budge on the 55k offer, I'll take the job. It would alleviate my anxiety about using up my savings, could be a good experience, and will put a new title and skills on my resume. If I find that I'm too far burnt out to do even that, I'll just quit. Otherwise, I can work there at least until my lease is up.

-  If they decide not to make an offer, that frees me up to travel a little. I have a friend in LA I'd like to see, and a couple other friends on the West Coast (which I've never been to) that I contacted to see if I can do a multi-stop trip.

-  If the parks job pulls out on the offer, and/or when I get back from traveling a little, I can always reach out to the temp agencies I've worked with in the past. In truth, I don't ever want to be an Executive Assistant again, but I think like @JGS1980 said, it would be easy to get another one of these gigs and who knows, maybe it'll be bearable. So even though it's not what I want to do, it's an option if things get dire.

- I've been living in this city for over 15 years, and this is where my people are, which is why I've stuck around for so long. But I think it hasn't been the right environment for me for a long, long time. The intense pressure, sensory overstimulation, and general hectic pace of living has taken a toll on me. And the infamous HCOL has only ramped up with recent inflation, especially fixed costs like housing, health care, utilities, and food. Unless/until I get new skills/training/education, I'm afraid that my wages aren't going to keep up with the accelerating costs here for much longer.

- To that end, I have a friend out in Philly who offered to let me live with him and his family for a while--he even has admin work for his business he could use me for. If his wife agrees, I may take him up on it when my lease ends.

- I also had a heart-to-heart with my father, who lives up in MA. We're not estranged per se, but he left when I was a kid, was not very involved with my life, and we only talk on holidays. I lay my cards out on the table and let him know the situation I was in. He hasn't often been true to his word in the past, but he did tell me that I could always turn to him for help if I wanted to, and he seemed sincere. He lives with his wife in a house that has an in-law suite and I'm thinking I could ask to shelter there for a while, if need be.

So since I only have 6 months left on the lease, I could either ride it out with the above plans, or pull the ripcord and break the lease if my dad or Philly friend agree to take me in. Honestly the idea of being somewhere quiet away from the constant pressure of high fixed costs has the sweet sound of sanctuary to me. I've been grinding for so long I forgot what that even feels like.

I still can't believe this is real!

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2023, 07:02:03 AM »
Thank you everyone for your encouragement! It still feels very surreal and I keep thinking to myself, "I can't believe I did that."

You can't actually figure out what you will do now. You can't make decisions for your future self. Your future self is wiser and knows themselves better than you ever possibly could, and they will make whatever decisions they feel is best.

Current you can only decide that it's best to leave your current job. That's it. You can have some ideas of what you might want to do, but you have zero control over it.

Once you leave your job, you will rapidly start becoming a different person with very different needs.

There's something worth noting: only unmet needs are motivating.

The unmet needs you have when stuck in a full time job that isn't making you happy are RADICALLY different from the unmet needs of being financially stable, but unemployed.

Your entire motivation profile will alter profoundly once you change the balance of your unmet needs. It's kind of batshit crazy.

Don't worry, your future self is wiser and more equipped than you are to figure out what needs are most important for your post-job self. Present you doesn't have a damn clue what you will need, so don't waste your energy trying to answer riddles you can't solve.

You will figure it out, I promise you that. A version of yourself that is infinitely more equipped to judge what your priorities will be will figure this all out for you.

All YOU need to do is figure out if it's time to leave your job.

This is really illuminating and I've been re-reading it every morning. My brain is spinning like crazy and I'm doing my best to do my anxiety-mediating exercises to calm it down. I'm still a little terrified that I'll use up all my savings and find myself in a position with few options, but I'm trying to tell myself to take it one day at a time and something will come together if I'm patient and tenacious.

 If it's cool with you, I'd like to share my thoughts about the future as they stand right now (subject to change, of course) For context, I'm 38, unmarried and childless, live in NYC, don't own a car, and my apartment lease is up December 1st.

-  I just got my learner's permit, and I'm going to take pre-certification course. I know how to drive, but I haven't driven in 10 years and my state makes you do the whole thing process over again if your license expires, which I foolishly let happen before I knew that. I have a couple local friends with cars who will let me practice and drive me to the road test when I'm ready. I think these could be important steps towards expanding my opportunities.

-  The parks job hasn't gotten back to my yet as they're doing a bunch of hiring and trying to figure out their budget. I think even if they don't budge on the 55k offer, I'll take the job. It would alleviate my anxiety about using up my savings, could be a good experience, and will put a new title and skills on my resume. If I find that I'm too far burnt out to do even that, I'll just quit. Otherwise, I can work there at least until my lease is up.

-  If they decide not to make an offer, that frees me up to travel a little. I have a friend in LA I'd like to see, and a couple other friends on the West Coast (which I've never been to) that I contacted to see if I can do a multi-stop trip.

-  If the parks job pulls out on the offer, and/or when I get back from traveling a little, I can always reach out to the temp agencies I've worked with in the past. In truth, I don't ever want to be an Executive Assistant again, but I think like @JGS1980 said, it would be easy to get another one of these gigs and who knows, maybe it'll be bearable. So even though it's not what I want to do, it's an option if things get dire.

- I've been living in this city for over 15 years, and this is where my people are, which is why I've stuck around for so long. But I think it hasn't been the right environment for me for a long, long time. The intense pressure, sensory overstimulation, and general hectic pace of living has taken a toll on me. And the infamous HCOL has only ramped up with recent inflation, especially fixed costs like housing, health care, utilities, and food. Unless/until I get new skills/training/education, I'm afraid that my wages aren't going to keep up with the accelerating costs here for much longer.

- To that end, I have a friend out in Philly who offered to let me live with him and his family for a while--he even has admin work for his business he could use me for. If his wife agrees, I may take him up on it when my lease ends.

- I also had a heart-to-heart with my father, who lives up in MA. We're not estranged per se, but he left when I was a kid, was not very involved with my life, and we only talk on holidays. I lay my cards out on the table and let him know the situation I was in. He hasn't often been true to his word in the past, but he did tell me that I could always turn to him for help if I wanted to, and he seemed sincere. He lives with his wife in a house that has an in-law suite and I'm thinking I could ask to shelter there for a while, if need be.

So since I only have 6 months left on the lease, I could either ride it out with the above plans, or pull the ripcord and break the lease if my dad or Philly friend agree to take me in. Honestly the idea of being somewhere quiet away from the constant pressure of high fixed costs has the sweet sound of sanctuary to me. I've been grinding for so long I forgot what that even feels like.

I still can't believe this is real!

Then go do that.

The threat of high costs is making it hard to decompress. So get rid of the high costs.

You're a renter, you can always move back to the city if you find you miss that life and figure out a higher income work option that makes you happy to afford it there.

You lose nothing by leaving. Sure, you may miss some friends and regular activities, but real friends are always there if/when you come back.

I live in two places, so I'm always missing friends and family for half the year. I pick up exactly where I left off with them. Same with my good friends who moved away. It's like no time has passed when I see them.

If your friendships don't endure, that's cool too, they weren't meant to. That's great, it will free you up to make new and maybe better friends.

I think lowering your expenses and lowering your stress so that you can decompress a bit and regroup is a great idea. It sounds exactly like was present-you needs.

rockeTree

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2023, 09:41:32 AM »
Is your dad’s place somewhere restful? Do you want to take the sleeper train out west (nothing more chill that the private roomette for a long long trip where you just watch the world go by for some folks) and see those pals and breathe different air? In the current economic climate I suspect but do not know any temp agency would be happy to have a capable admin walk in the door.

Once the lease is gone you have amazingly little tying you down. No dependents, no car loan, no house, just whatever heath care you go with and food and shelter as you need it. Some stuff in storage, maybe with your dad? Freedom like that for a while can be transforming.

There is no where in the world like NYC and I love it but I know it would absolutely wear me out to live there. Lots of friends there to visit sometimes sounds ideal (to me, ymmv etc).

JAYSLOL

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2023, 10:25:52 PM »
So good to have an update with such great news, you have been in my thoughts quite a bit over the last few days.  Honestly, I’ve had some work challenges myself (different type of challenges though) over the last few years, and have considered laying it all out in the forum here many times but haven’t pulled the trigger.  I love that you gave your notice, you deserve a workplace and boss that treat you with respect and kindness.  I would take the next 6 months before the lease is up to work that parks job and decide if you like it, as well as if you can convince them within that time to significantly increase your compensation, and you don’t have to burn through savings if you work that job.  While you should still be careful not to slip into bad spending habits, if you want to dip into savings a few times to go out to eat in a mindful and intentional way, just go for it, you’ve done a great job saving and the next 6 months should be less about optimizing your money, and more about optimizing your recovery from a terrible workplace.  Definitely get your license, and if you wish, sell everything in your apartment that you wouldn’t want to put in a car to bring with you somewhere new if you wish to buy a car to move away.  You could be totally ready to move to another city, or travel and visit friends or just explore as soon as the lease is up if you don’t find other better paying work, or get a raise from the parks job and decide to leave the city. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 10:28:00 PM by JAYSLOL »

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2023, 06:09:14 AM »
Thank you :)

My dad's place is in peaceful suburb not far from Boston. I think it would be pretty restful, especially because the in-law suite has a separate entrance so I would get some privacy. I've also been talking to my suburb-of-Philly friend a bit more about me moving in. He asked if I wanted to house-sit for a month this summer while he takes his family overseas, so that could be a good test run. The parks non-profit still hasn't gotten back to me when they said they would, so I nudged them for an update. I think what I decide to do re: taking a train out West, or breaking my lease and living with my dad or friend will hinge on what their answer is. 6 months isn't a long time, and like you said JAYSLOL I can use that time to get my license, maybe a car, and hatch a concrete exit strategy without burning through my savings. If I don't get it, I either go back to the temp agency or straight up break my lease and move in with my dad or friend like Metalcat suggests.

I'm having feelings of doubts/second thoughts about my decision that I'm trying to cope with. The survivalist in me (who is very loud and very frantic) is panicking about voluntarily throwing away a completely secure job (they never fire anyone), a solid paycheck and full health insurance coverage. This is the rationalization that kept me here for so long: the job is, by definition, dealing with a ton of unbelievable bullshit, but so are a lot of jobs, and this one isn't likely to get pulled out from under me. I know that other jobs with benefits exist, and that trading my daily happiness and mental health for financial security is not exactly the best trade-off, especially when I don't have any chronic health issues that require regular health insurance usage. I guess because this is the first job I got that provided that security, it feels like it's going to be extremely difficult to find something else that will, but maybe that's an old script like Metalcat said.

So I'm trying to remind myself that I don't really know what else is out there and I'm only able to imagine what my limited experience has shown me. That I get one shot at this life, and I know for sure that this isn't what I want to be doing with it. That money isn't a reason to live. That happiness can be found in many places, and it's up to me to find it. That I can't cling to a stable-but-unhappy life just because it feels "safe." That safety is an illusion. That my friends love and support me and were overjoyed when I told them I put in my notice. There isn't anyone in my life (including you kind people!) who thinks this is a bad decision. Even reminding myself of all these things, I feel totally unmoored, but of course I do--I'm making major life changes.

Last summer I saw an old friend that I hadn't seen in many years. She was asking where I was living and what I was doing for work, and when I told her, she had this utterly baffled, disbelieving look on her face and bluntly asked, "Why?!" I was a little insulted in the moment, but I couldn't stop thinking about it: Why? Why am I living here? Why am I doing this job? The fact that I didn't have an answer besides "basic survival" was disturbing and stuck in my mind up until now. It felt like I didn't have reasonable options, but maybe it's just because I didn't/don't know what options there are.


Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2023, 12:54:13 PM »
Thank you :)

My dad's place is in peaceful suburb not far from Boston. I think it would be pretty restful, especially because the in-law suite has a separate entrance so I would get some privacy. I've also been talking to my suburb-of-Philly friend a bit more about me moving in. He asked if I wanted to house-sit for a month this summer while he takes his family overseas, so that could be a good test run. The parks non-profit still hasn't gotten back to me when they said they would, so I nudged them for an update. I think what I decide to do re: taking a train out West, or breaking my lease and living with my dad or friend will hinge on what their answer is. 6 months isn't a long time, and like you said JAYSLOL I can use that time to get my license, maybe a car, and hatch a concrete exit strategy without burning through my savings. If I don't get it, I either go back to the temp agency or straight up break my lease and move in with my dad or friend like Metalcat suggests.

I'm having feelings of doubts/second thoughts about my decision that I'm trying to cope with. The survivalist in me (who is very loud and very frantic) is panicking about voluntarily throwing away a completely secure job (they never fire anyone), a solid paycheck and full health insurance coverage. This is the rationalization that kept me here for so long: the job is, by definition, dealing with a ton of unbelievable bullshit, but so are a lot of jobs, and this one isn't likely to get pulled out from under me. I know that other jobs with benefits exist, and that trading my daily happiness and mental health for financial security is not exactly the best trade-off, especially when I don't have any chronic health issues that require regular health insurance usage. I guess because this is the first job I got that provided that security, it feels like it's going to be extremely difficult to find something else that will, but maybe that's an old script like Metalcat said.

So I'm trying to remind myself that I don't really know what else is out there and I'm only able to imagine what my limited experience has shown me. That I get one shot at this life, and I know for sure that this isn't what I want to be doing with it. That money isn't a reason to live. That happiness can be found in many places, and it's up to me to find it. That I can't cling to a stable-but-unhappy life just because it feels "safe." That safety is an illusion. That my friends love and support me and were overjoyed when I told them I put in my notice. There isn't anyone in my life (including you kind people!) who thinks this is a bad decision. Even reminding myself of all these things, I feel totally unmoored, but of course I do--I'm making major life changes.

Last summer I saw an old friend that I hadn't seen in many years. She was asking where I was living and what I was doing for work, and when I told her, she had this utterly baffled, disbelieving look on her face and bluntly asked, "Why?!" I was a little insulted in the moment, but I couldn't stop thinking about it: Why? Why am I living here? Why am I doing this job? The fact that I didn't have an answer besides "basic survival" was disturbing and stuck in my mind up until now. It felt like I didn't have reasonable options, but maybe it's just because I didn't/don't know what options there are.

This isn't survival instinct. It's the natural bias to perceive whatever you are doing as the safer option. 

No matter how bad, toxic, or risky someone's current situation is, the stupid human brain applies a "safety" premium to it that makes it feel really risky to give it up.

This is the basis for fear of change.

In reality what you have done is take a guaranteed risk of being unhappy and traded it for an unknown risk. But the truth is you are perfectly capable of creating a safer future for yourself by eliminating the known risk of being unhappy doing what you were doing.

You aren't craving actual safety, you are afraid of the unknown and raving certainty.

The more psychologically flexible you are and the more comfortable you can be with the unknown, the better you will actually be at building a more robust, secure, and happy life for yourself.

The number one risk most people take in life is being afraid of the unknown.

Being willing to not know what the future holds is NOT the same as being aimless or reckless. In fact, it's the opposite.

Because you've never done what it takes to build a happy, healthy, optimal life, you don't yet trust yourself to do what it takes. You worry that the best you could do was the life that made you unhappy. You don't yet *know* that you can do that.

You have to actually start doing it to build the faith in yourself that you can.

This is literally how you approach any new challenge in life. You have to face that you don't know for sure if you can do it, but you put in your best effort and try, and if you are determined enough, and the goal is obtainable, you will very likely succeed.

Right now you're like a freshman at college terrified that you might fail. Everyone who has completed college thinks your fears are naive and quaint, but to you, they feel real.

Well, that's how happy people are looking at you right now. Staying in your old life would be like a highschool graduate avoiding college because of fear of failure. You've already made the decision and now you're just intimidated by it, but anyone who has been there thinks that fear is kind of cute because the chances of you failing to build a happier life compared to being miserable is pretty low if you just put in the work.

I am very comfortable with uncertainty. In fact, if my life is exactly the same in 10 years, I'll be pissed. Lol.

This past year I had to agree to a surgery that could possibly result in above the knee amputation. That unknown was scary, but I trust myself so much to make my life great that I knew I would still have a great life. No matter what happens, I know I have the skills to cultivate a full and happy life.

I have that faith because when push came to shove, that's what I did. When things that felt safe were taken away or I had to walk away, I always found a way to learn from it and make my life better and happier.

Building a happy life is a skill you have to learn. You learn it by doing.

If you waste your life doing shit that isn't happy or healthy, you never get to learn this skill. You may have no clue how to build your best life. That's normal, you haven't learned how to yet. Get on learning that.

But sticking with what doesn't work and failing to learn that isn't "safe" at all.

That's like staying in a horrible marriage because you don't believe anyone decent will ever love you. That's not safety, that's familiarity.

It's going to take effort to figure out your best path forward, but effort is way more enjoyable than festering.

Think of it this way, imagine you are horribly unhealthy, weak, out of shape, obese, and your doctor has told you you have type 2 diabetes. Continuing to live your unhealthy lifestyle is comfortable but going to destroy you. Overhauling your entire lifestyle is intimidating and you have no faith that you can even do it. You've read about people trying to lose weight who have ended up heavier in the end.

But sticking with the unhealthy routine you know is guaranteed to destroy you. Figuring out how to build a healthy lifestyle is a matter of getting the right information, the right supports, and putting in smart forms of effort.

You're only going to end up worse off if you don't seek out the right supports along the way and don't figure out what skills you need to succeed. Your biggest risk is to over complicate it.

You have everything you need to figure out how to build your best life. The biggest barrier to that was your previous job. The whole world of possibilities is open to you now and there is SO MUCH MORE security in having options than in being stuck with something that is actively bad for you.

Familiar DOES NOT equal safer.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2023, 11:05:23 PM »
Taking notes on everything Metalcat said.

I haven’t given notice yet as I have a couple defined uses of my benefits pending but I’m committed to doing so, & the loud, frantic anxiety is off the charts. Same rationalizations, same fears. Lacking experiences to gauge possibilities by is definitely the issue here. Without context for being an adult job seeker with experience & a track record (& savings!) it’s hard to picture hunting for work without also calling up the ghost of the circumstances we had last time as recession grads, but rationally where we were is a universe away from where we are. The job market is also night & day different. Wages have been up. The job placement commercials now are from staffing firms for employers discussing retention & boasting about candidate location in “this tough market.”

I also firmly want to believe neither of us will have to deal with daily unbelievable bullshit in future roles. Lots of jobs do, but I hope we can hope that it won’t include our jobs. People have been willing to walk in the Great Resignation which is beginning to impact expectations on management’s part . (I guess that includes us.)

Rooting for you. I’ve been trying to be sure to find some kind of self-care routine in all this, something that is intrinsically rewarding but accessible enough to keep up with as an anchor point to feel some progress even when daily (or biweekly, on pay day) sources of achievement feel like a big step back.

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2023, 06:16:10 AM »
Metalcat, you really cut to the core of me. What you’re writing is astoundingly insightful (all of it, not just what I’m quoting below). You're absolutely right: I am terrified of change.


Because you've never done what it takes to build a happy, healthy, optimal life, you don't yet trust yourself to do what it takes. You worry that the best you could do was the life that made you unhappy. You don't yet *know* that you can do that.

You have to actually start doing it to build the faith in yourself that you can.

This is exactly what I felt after the honeymoon phase of the job faded and the verbal/emotional abuse and demeaning treatment began. After all those years struggling to find and/or keep employment, I started to believe that this really was the best that I could do. I figured that I would Think of a better path for myself while I was paying off the loans and saving up, but then when I succeeded in reaching those goals… I hadn’t thought of any path at all. I’m only now realizing that you can’t always (or ever?) think your way forward. You have to actually act, like you said. Learning it by doing it.

Faith has always been very difficult for me. I’ll spare you the sob story, but in therapy I learned that a looooot of early childhood trauma taught me learned helplessness. I precisely fit the “lost child” role of dysfunctional families and have carried that well into adulthood. And it’s meant having no faith in anything or anyone. And having no faith means having a ton of anxiety about the future—feeling like I’m responsible for everything but simultaneously incapable of effectively taking charge of my own life. I’ve spent my whole life being led by my fears: fear of attention, fear of asserting myself, fear of making choices, fear of intimate connections, fear of having needs, fear of making sacrifices, fear of change, fear of losing any and all attachments.

I’m learning that the entire contour of my life has been shaped by this conditioning—my relationships, my employment, my hobbies, how I spend my time—everything. And when I reflect on the past, I see so much wasted opportunity, wasted time, wasted chances to love and be loved, wasted chances to be content. It hasn’t been a totally desolate life, but all the ways I didn't show up for myself are particularly clear in this moment.

I'm not saying all this to create a pity party, just to give context to my life and where I've come from. Because I'm not going to live like this anymore, because you're right: it's a familiarity with something that is horrible for me. I'm not going to spend the rest of my life playing out the screwed-up role I was put in as a child. I'm going to do like you said: try to build a happy life and try to develop faith in myself as I act towards that goal.

Quote
Right now you're like a freshman at college terrified that you might fail. Everyone who has completed college thinks your fears are naive and quaint, but to you, they feel real.

Well, that's how happy people are looking at you right now. Staying in your old life would be like a highschool graduate avoiding college because of fear of failure. You've already made the decision and now you're just intimidated by it, but anyone who has been there thinks that fear is kind of cute because the chances of you failing to build a happier life compared to being miserable is pretty low if you just put in the work.

Figuring out how to build a healthy lifestyle is a matter of getting the right information, the right supports, and putting in smart forms of effort.

You're only going to end up worse off if you don't seek out the right supports along the way and don't figure out what skills you need to succeed. Your biggest risk is to over complicate it.

You have everything you need to figure out how to build your best life. The biggest barrier to that was your previous job. The whole world of possibilities is open to you now and there is SO MUCH MORE security in having options than in being stuck with something that is actively bad for you.

I'm deeply relieved that my fear of failure is likely overblown--it's hard sometimes to know whether I'm accurately assessing danger. But I am worried that this will happen: that I won’t get the right information, the right supports, that I won't make smart efforts, and that I’ll overcomplicate it. Do you have any advice for how I can avoid those pitfalls? Where does one look for the right information and support? How do we avoid overcomplication and make smart choices? Now that I've taken the big step of leaving the main obstacle to a happy life, what are some next steps I can take? I'm a little embarrassed because I'm practically asking you how to be an adult. But I think my floundering in adulthood hasn't been out of laziness or apathy--most of the time I just don't know the right questions to ask, who to ask, and have been too afraid to ask for help.

@eyesonthehorizon: You're right, it's good to remind ourselves that this is a very different job market than we first entered. I'm rooting for you too. You're not alone. :)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2023, 06:17:51 AM by Ford Prefect »

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2023, 10:49:35 AM »
Not a pity party, just facts.

Also, I too have a history of severe childhood trauma, how the fuck do you think I know all this shit? Lol

Adaptive child here though, kind of the opposite of the lost child: hyper competent, ferociously independent, overly ambitious.

The net effect is the same though, my trauma patterns produced a toxic life that cultivated ongoing trauma and dysfunction due to a pattern of behaviours that felt "safe." I get you because I really *get* you. I'm like a human Geiger counter for trauma.

The difference is that I've reprocessed a lot of my trauma and relearned how to adult productively and safely.

Here's the difference between you and I: you've made a choice to leave your career, I was forced out of mine because my trauma-based discipline lead me to working so hard that I literally destroyed my body and became too disabled to do my job in my 30s.

This is permanent, my life and career options are permanently limited. Dramatically. I can't stand, walk, sit in a chair, work on a computer, or commit to anything full time. Lol, wanna hire me???

But guess what, even though I'm pretty much starting from scratch at 40 and can't do 99% of jobs, I have plenty of options. Our circumstances are different, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that I see the world full of options, and you have WAY MORE options than I do.

So how do you adult in a healthy way? Well, you stick with really good trauma therapy, that's for fucking sure. I'll never be without a therapist. I'm great, my mental health is awesome, but stressors can still punt me into trauma responses and I have an expert who can spot them well before I can.

And thank God for that.

Right now I have a broken femur, my mom just lost a fifth of her brain to a massive bleed, and I'm doing double courseload graduate school. My mom is complex, we're very close, but she was so abusive that I left home very young. My previous grad school degree was so abusive that it took years of therapy to recover. These are all *highly* triggering things. There's no fucking way I could navigate them without help. With a bit of help, I'm golden because I've done all the foundational trauma work.

So make sure you have ongoing trauma care. Having trauma is like having diabetes, you can manage it just fine, but if you aren't monitored and managed, you'll lose a metaphorical limb.

Okay. So trauma support out of the way. How do you seek practical support.

Um...by coming to places like here and asking people like me.

Just ask people for help and advice. The vast majority of people like to help and give advice, so just start asking people. Ask people about their careers, ask them about where they live. Ask them for networking advice. Ask them what makes them feel safe. Ask them what makes them feel happy. Ask them what resources have helped them.

Most people are struggling as much as you are. No one will have all of the answers you need. But many will have a lot of advice and perspective and you will learn from EVERYONE.

And thanks to the internet, you can either directly ask people about anything or read what other people have asked them that you might not have ever even thought to ask.

This place alone has every kind of mid-life change you can imagine. We have people retiring, people leaving jobs to coast fire, people getting divorced and having to go back to work, we have people leaving tech for trades, leaving trades for tech, leaving corporate for a PhD in art/anthropology, people leaving big cities for an acreage, people leaving small towns for big cities, becoming nomads, moving from Sweden to Rwanda despite never having been to Rwanda.

You name it, we've talked about it, and a sea of folks with different backgrounds have weighed in with their take on the pros and cons in terms of career, money, happiness, health, etc.

Stop conceptualizing resources as something hidden that you have to find and start seeing literally everything and everyone around you as a critical resource that you should be learning from.

When I say you have everything you need to build a happy and healthy life, I mean it. I'm not even kidding, this forum alone holds most of the resources you need to figure this out. Just this little forum.

You are exactly like everyone else in the world. You have strengths and you have limitations and you need the wisdom and support of others to make the most of your life.

I personally research EVERYTHING.

In late 2021 I visited a small city for a wedding where my extended family in-laws live. I really like my in-laws, and I immediately liked the city.

I put in a few hours researching real estate there, it's working class so I figured rent would be cheap and easy surprised it wasn't. I then researched real estate and realized it was very cheap. So then when I saw each family member, I asked them all about living there, what they perceived the pros and cons to be. I also googled it and found blogs and YouTube channels of people who had moved there from where I'm from.

It took me 48 hours to determine that I would probably love living there at some point, that real estate investment was a great idea. I found recommendations for a great deal estate agent, and a great property manager and within 7 days of first seeing the city had an offer in on a property because I had some settlement money burning a hole in my pocket and the markets were really hot at the time so I was open to alternatives.

And guess what, I learned everything I know about real estate from here and the resources that people here posted. I also asked trusted forum members for help.

But seriously, I just went somewhere, trusted a feeling, and made the most sound investment I've ever made.

Now, I can't live there because of medical issues, and the property was actually too good of an investment to justify using it for personal use. So I looked for another property, but by that point, the market had heated up so much because I really had spotted a gem of a market and others were flooding in fast.

I was bored, still unemployed, trying to figure out what to do with my life and I had time to fuck around on the internet, so I looked further east. I leaned into my instinct of wanting to be on the east coast and near the ocean.

There were no good properties, the house prices were insane. But then I extended my search thousands of kilometers out and found a bunch of gorgeous little cheap houses on the ocean in Newfoundland.

I made dozens of calls, spoke to countless real estate agents, property managers, tour companies, BnB owners, etc. I narrowed down the region of interest and then watched every single YouTube video I could find.

I spoke to a real estate agent and property manager in a particular small town who happened to be married. They also happened to be from a city near me, and they also happened to be our age, interested in the same things we are, and from the exact same industries we were in.

They had taken a vacation to this place, fell in love with it and impulse bought a house that weekend, summered there for 3 years before bailing on their lives and careers in the city and starting new out there.

They were the *perfect* people for me to learn from and gauge if this was a good idea for us. So having never been to Newfoundland, we bought a house there and ended up loving it more than we could have imagined.

We're not dumb, we bought a house that would be a very lucrative AirBnB if we didn't want to use it. I also read endlessly about the pros and cons of owning an AirBnB.

No one, and I mean NO ONE could have given me the advice to look for 100+ year old houses in a province I had never been to, to get into AirBnBing, which I knew nothing about, and that that would be a surefire path to happiness.

But the sum wisdom of a few hundred people willing to talk to me or to others online or to make videos about their experiences, I was reasonably able to deduce that a low risk decision might unlock a huge potential for happiness.

All because I'm curious and willing to see the world as full of possibilities.

I'm like that about EVERYTHING. Any job I hear about, see on TV, etc, I ask myself if I might enjoy it and google info about it. Any location I hear that someone lives in that they like, I try to figure out what they like about it.

I'm currently texting a classmate who moved from my province to Mexico. I now know all about what life is like for a Canadian student living in Guadalajara. I've talked to people about what it's like to live on a sailboat. I've spent hours talking to someone about living in a commune in the Bay Area.

I considered a grad program in Seattle a few years ago and did Tons of research on living there. I knew which neighbourhood to rent in, what the public transportation system was like between that area and the hospital, what grocery store I would likely shop at, what working in the hospital is like, what the support staff in the ER are like because my program would involve coordinating with the ER.

I learned all of this *before* deciding not to bother applying.

Right now I'm learning all about RVing. That's a whole story in my journal.

But are you getting the idea??? I don't have any magical resources to point you to for the info you need other than to flail my arms around me all over like a lunatic gesturing that the resources are LITERALLY EVERYWHERE.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2023, 11:29:55 AM »
So how do you adult in a healthy way? Well, you stick with really good trauma therapy, that's for fucking sure. I'll never be without a therapist. I'm great, my mental health is awesome, but stressors can still punt me into trauma responses and I have an expert who can spot them well before I can.

And thank God for that.
...

So make sure you have ongoing trauma care. Having trauma is like having diabetes, you can manage it just fine, but if you aren't monitored and managed, you'll lose a metaphorical limb.

...

@Metalcat is amazing, and gives amazing wisdom. 

I'm higlightling the quote above because that's absolutely key.  I'm very fortunate not to have the childhood traumas, but I know many who do, and this is vital. 

Also, to encourage you: the #1 hardest thing to do is come to the self-realization that you have these challenges and live in that way - and know it.  That alone will help you now to move ahead in a healthy way.  It'll make your counseling actually productive.

So listen to @Metalcat ...and don't let it try to kill you first. 

Best wishes - and prayers - to you, op. 

smisk

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2023, 09:38:39 AM »
Wow Metalcat thanks for all the amazing advice - not in an identical situation to OP but also at something of a crossroads in life and a lot of the stuff about fearing the unknown rings true for me. Your words are very encouraging.

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2023, 04:39:27 AM »
My inverted trauma sister! Sometimes I regret not having been super competent and ambitious, but I didn’t realize how that too can have devastating effects on your life. Thank you for sharing your stories about your real estate adventures and health challenges.  I really admire your positive outlook and focus on possibility in the face of adversity. I’m trying to work on my bias towards negativity, pessimism, fatalism, etc.

I’m going to be losing my insurance, so I don’t think I can afford a good trauma therapist (and also I found them astonishingly difficult to find even with insurance) BUT, a couple months ago I completed a cutting edge treatment for depression that was incredibly successful and has shifted my worldview significantly (and was the impetus for posting here).

Here are some updates! I’ve taken your advice and I’ve been reaching out to a lot of people.

- An old friend who is a unionized scenery painter. She was dismayed that I was doing the job I was doing and told me that she thought I was capable of so much more. It was really touching to hear that. She is being really supportive about me finding a way to live that isn’t so suffocating.

- I talked to my best friend’s sister, who hated city life and did seasonal resort jobs until she eventually landed in Europe where she met her husband and settled down. They run a homestead/tourism business together and are really happy. I asked her about it because I used to fantasize about doing this kind of thing. She doesn’t think I’m too old to do it at 38, though she says most of the people seem to be in their 20s and early 30s and that you usually live in dorm-like conditions which might be a bit much for me at this stage in my life—but might not, if they’re good people. And it might be a good way to some nature and quietude and see other parts of the country/world.

-I talked to a contractor I sometimes worked with at my job about bartending, one of his several gigs. He recommended starting out barbacking as a way to get my foot in the door. I live in walking distance to several bars so I might ask around.

- I went out to visit my friend in the suburbs of Philadelphia. I talked to him and his wife a lot about what I was going through, and they were really supportive. They have proper careers and two adorable kids and a beautiful home (they made very different life choices than me, of course). I felt so safe and warm in their home; so accepted and at peace. They told me I’m welcome to stay with them anytime. My friend even has admin work for his business that I could do while there. I’ve also uncovered a stuffed-down desire to have a partner. Living there would make dating prohibitive, so tough to balance the two goals of 1) recovering somewhere quiet and safe and 2) finding love. But maybe the first one needs to come first if I’m going to achieve the second one. In any case, I’m back on the apps and casually talking to people in hopes of meeting someone.

- On Friday, I’m meeting with an old classmate who runs production for a famous concert venue in my city. I used to do audio work, and she said she hires all the time. Maybe there’s something for me to do there.

- I got my learner’s permit and I’m taking a pre-licensing certification course so that I can take my driving test. I figure if I’m ever going to leave my insanely expensive city, I’m going to need a license and maybe a car.

- I got a copy of “What Color is Your Parachute” to try to figure out where I might fit in the professional world. I also reached out to my alma mater to see if they still offered career resources despite the long time it’s been since I graduated. They have a Job board and a couple other things I could use.I also signed up for one-on-one career counseling through my library.

- The Parks job fell through—they had a candidate who was able to start, like, today, so they opted for that person. That’s okay though, there were some big red flags in the final interview.

- I got a firm job offer to do office management at a stuffy, creepy securities exchange company. The hiring manager was very off-putting. I’m going to turn it down, it’s definitely not a good cultural fit and the pay is middling anyway. My gut kept saying “don’t do this” so I’m going to listen to it.

- My anxiety about all this has been very, very intense. I’m trying to be gentle and remind myself that I’m going through a major life transition that is connected to my trauma history and it’s normal to be anxious about it. I’m trying to remind myself that I’ve survived worse circumstances. The anxiety gives me a lot of energy, at least, though the flip side is I haven’t really been sleeping. I keep waking up at 3am and staying awake, but instead of lying in bed wallowing in a negative thought spiral, I get up and write in my journal, do whatever chores I put off the night before, and do things like type up this post. I straight up cleaned my oventop at 4:00AM lol.

- At the end of May, I’m flying out to the West coast to see a few friends. I’ve never been out there before! I’m looking forward to having new experiences there.

I’m going to read the journals on this forum about people making life changes that you mentioned. I’m glad this forum exists—it’s nice to talk to people who aren’t so much career-focused as they are quality-of-life focused, and I hope I can learn more about different ways to live so that I can find a way to live that works for me.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2023, 04:43:12 AM by Ford Prefect »

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2023, 08:17:11 PM »
THIS! IS! SO! AWESOME!!! You've just done everything I could possibly think to do in that situation & then some, with so much value from it all. It's really eye-opening when you get up close & personal with other people living completely different lives, for me it almost feels like lifting possibilities straight from fiction to reality. Excellent judgement going with your gut to turn down any employer that inspires you to use words like "creepy." Will second the hunch that anytime you can focus on getting yourself into a good place before dating you'll have better results. In addition to needing to be in a good place for all your own reasons it's like having your radar calibrated to find non-problematic people.

(Curious about the depression treatment, my DMs are open if it is something you're comfortable sharing but prefer not to elaborate on here; otherwise just very glad it's helped in any case.)

...
- My anxiety about all this has been very, very intense. I’m trying to be gentle and remind myself that I’m going through a major life transition that is connected to my trauma history and it’s normal to be anxious about it. I’m trying to remind myself that I’ve survived worse circumstances. The anxiety gives me a lot of energy, at least, though the flip side is I haven’t really been sleeping. I keep waking up at 3am and staying awake, but instead of lying in bed wallowing in a negative thought spiral, I get up and write in my journal, do whatever chores I put off the night before, and do things like type up this post. I straight up cleaned my oventop at 4:00AM lol.

- At the end of May, I’m flying out to the West coast to see a few friends. I’ve never been out there before! I’m looking forward to having new experiences there.

I’m going to read the journals on this forum about people making life changes that you mentioned. I’m glad this forum exists—it’s nice to talk to people who aren’t so much career-focused as they are quality-of-life focused, and I hope I can learn more about different ways to live so that I can find a way to live that works for me.

I'm coming up right behind you as it turns out & similarly having pretty extreme anxiety, though without any of that nervous energy. Good work porting it toward all the things that improve your quality of life, that really can spin up a virtuous cycle. Enjoy the healing combination of novelty & companionship on the trip; that sounds like just what the doctor ordered for this juncture!!


Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2023, 07:39:37 AM »
Positive Updates:

- I finished my pre-licensing course and found someone who will let me use her car to reacquaint myself with driving before I schedule my driver's test. Hopefully it's like riding a bicycle!

- My friend who runs the concert venue hired me to work Saturdays for a few weeks, to dip my toes in, and tonight is my first night. I'm nervous but excited!

- My Philly friend has a connection with a startup that might need someone like me to do copywriting and admin stuff, and they're fully remote. I'm crossing my fingers.

- Had an intake appointment with a new therapist.

Not so positive updates

 - The anxiety got worse. Way, way worse. Like, panic attacks every single day and sleeping at most 2-3 hours a night. I felt like I was going insane. My job asked me if I could stay on longer, and I caved under the inner pressure and agreed to it. Almost immediately, the panic attacks stopped and I could sleep again. I made something of a mess by resigning and then backpedaling on it, but that's just a consequence I'm going to have to face. I know that this is a really disappointing development, and I feel very ashamed to share it. I wanted a clean break, too. I realized I was running from something and not towards anything. I don't really have a "career" per se so the job hunt was not going great. None of the fallback work I could do (temping, barbacking, barista'ing, catsitting) would have made ends meet, and the stress of not having a real plan to earn a living only replaced the stress of working in a bad environment. There was basically no chance that I was going to be able to relax during a hiatus between jobs.

- I did have an honest, open conversation with my team at work about what I was going through, which I've never done before. I'm also supposed to have a conversation with my toxic boss, which I can't imagine is going to be productive. If he uses it as an opportunity to browbeat me and shut me down, I guess I could tell them to start looking for a replacement. It would take them a while to do this, and they have a hard time with turnover for obvious reasons.

- I spoke more to my dad and he did offer that I could stay with him for a week or two. It didn't sound like staying with him long term was an option he was comfortable with. Maybe if things get very desperate I can press him again. I'm also afraid that if he lets me do that, I never really recover from it--I just stay there as long as possible, letting my savings dwindle.

- I'm trying very, very hard to hold on to hope. It just feels like there are no good options right now. I know I can't stay for much longer, but I have no idea where I'm going or what I'm doing, and that frightens me to the core of my being. I feel just as adrift as I felt when I started this job, and just as adrift as I was when I graduated college. I don't know how to fit into this world--nothing really connects with me.

Can I share my dream/fantasy with you? I imagine myself working in a book store in a smaller city that's surrounded by nature--maybe in the Southwest, maybe in the Pacific Northwest, I don't know. Living in a modest, detached house, maybe with room for a garden. Having a quiet, peaceful work day, then going home and working on my music or my writing. Join some local volunteering or activity groups to find some friends. Maybe meet a partner, someone with whom we can watch each others' backs. Live modestly and feel a general sense of contentment.

I don't know how plausible any of that is. I don't know how (logistically, mentally, emotionally) someone just leaves their friends and family behind, picks up and moves to a new region, and starts over. I don't know if a bookstore would even pay me enough to make rent. I don't even know if this is a real dream or just a fantasy borne from wanting to run away from my life and the terrible suboptimal life choices I've made. I never took careers seriously because I could not fathom fitting into any of them, and indeed all the work experience I've had tells me that I don't. I never took starting a family seriously because all my memories of family growing up are painful and traumatic. And now I'm coming around the bend on 40 years old, and have no family, no career, no plan for the future. I'm really scared that I backed myself into a corner I can't get out of. And I'm so embarrassed that I can't bring myself to make the bold, tough choices that I need to make to change my life, not without approaching a mental breakdown anyway.

I've never been a religious person, but in my journals I've started praying for something to show me the way forward, something to come up that makes me say "Yes! This is what I'll do next." I never thought I'd be the praying type but I'm just so desperate and scared.

lhamo

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2023, 08:19:21 AM »
Not a bookstore, but since you were interested in a city parks job thought I'd throw this out there -- I volunteer a ton for this org and so far everyone I have met (both staff and volunteers) are great.  So great I was briefly tempted to apply for the garden educator job, but decided against it.  Pay is not tremendous, and probably not enough to comfortably rent a private apartment, but it is pretty easy to find house share situations in Seattle.

https://tilthalliance.org/about-us/employment-opportunities/


eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2023, 11:46:33 AM »
Don't feel bad about letting them pull you back in - remember you can still quit again, anytime. Just keep working on that, because there's almost no way this is a good long term solution.

Are you able to have your toxic boss run communication to you electronically, ideally via email where it's just slightly time-deferred? It can soften the impact on your wellbeing a bit when you can give an appropriate double-finger to a screen & then respond with the courtesy you weren't shown.

Remote admin assistant work is everywhere while you still have to pay bills first.

I think practically our entire generation has that dream more or less in common, it's so frequent that it's a trope (sometimes the bookstore is a cafe, or both.) It's what I hoped for myself at one point, perhaps still what I'll end up with after a break. Maybe identify which parts you have most control over (the job, the home, the lifestyle) & then pick which matter most to you to work on first. Location determines much else, including rent & what kind of pay range is available.

The great cultural lie I'm hearing you repeat to yourself is that there's a point after which you can't change direction. It's patently false, but it's a great way to rush people into commitments with expensive life choices that they then repeat multiple times due to bad fit (like getting married or buying a home), so it's a profitable lie. I advise disposing of it. If you turn 50 & run off after a writing career, that's perfectly reasonable. Turn 65 & get swept up in a whirlwind romance in Appalachia, perfectly reasonable. Turn 75 & decide to devote yourself to wetlands conservation, that's also perfectly reasonable. Start selling paintings at 90.

We used to expect people (that is, men) to have one career in their lives, so we don't tell the stories of older role models for life pivots (...& misogyny means we are only just in the last few years starting to see any role models for women after first marriage at all.) It's a cliche & sounds silly but I actually encourage looking up one of those lists of "50 celebrities who reinvented themselves after 50" not as a template but just to normalize the idea, because you'd be amazed to realize how many hugely successful people didn't figure out what (or how many things) they were doing with their lives until well into middle age or older. Their stories don't rhyme with our culture's preferred ideal of success, despite their enormous success, so those parts of the stories don't come up as often - they're everywhere.

As long as your mind holds out you are literally never too old to do something else. Especially in the digital age, when physical strength is irrelevant to so much we do.

Another thing I've heard from older childfree women in particular is that they feared they'd regret it late in life but realized that fear was something others tried to put into them, not something they felt themselves, which resonated with me. Worth examining. So is the idea that a romantic relationship is always closer or more meaningful than a platonic one.

Purpose generally comes from a sense of connection, but families are made, not born. Finding groups of people who engage in meaningful & challenging efforts at nearly anything can bring you a lot of close friends. Having "keeping a business afloat" be that challenge always struck me as miserable, but having challenging work to do can make work such a place when it's not toxic. Any of the parks jobs sound like they may offer this along with a community with similar values, which is a good place to find new close ties.

This may or may not be helpful to you but has helped me: if there are no good options at the moment, there are still a lot of very suboptimal options, & taking one may open up good options again.

I have a lot less to offer on the anxiety aside from "this shit sucks, huh?" but labeling thoughts as they happen at least helps a bit - "Okay, we're ruminating again on past events I've examined a million times for insight, there's no insight there & nothing can be changed, moving on" or "Hm, this is catastrophizing, all preventative measures have been taken & even if I think of a new one I'm not getting out of bed at 3:45 to work on it, moving on." I still have to remind myself I'm "moving on" about fifty times a minute, but it does turn off the immediacy of the experience. Hooray for therapy, is all I can add.

rockeTree

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2023, 02:40:19 PM »
Hey I am sorry that things are tough. I’m really glad you are getting a therapist.

And I will double down on nearly 40 not being the end. You’ve been an autonomous adult for maybe two decades and will live maybe four more decades as such. The party is emphatically not over.

Everyone wants to work in a bookstore but no one wants to buy $30 hardbacks locally it seems. It’s tough. But working in a place with community and conversation is not so scarce. Folks don’t fix their bike on Amazon or plan their garden and buy the seedlings or put solar on the roof, new tiles on the floor, fill the potholes. Your quiet small towns run coffee roasters and local breweries that are community hubs and require enough skill to pay decently. Your retirement community/nursing home needs someone to plan and run activities. Pandemic puppies need walks and grooming.  There’s a million ways to not be part of something you hate. It’s natural to be terrified of change, but you are already making changes and progress. I have so much compassion for you at this tough part and I one hundred percent believe you will be in a better place sooner than you think.

JAYSLOL

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2023, 06:05:43 PM »
You have made some incredible progress and incredible effort, sorry to hear the stress of the whole situation has hit you hard, but I know you can push though this.  You have the strength to do incredibly hard work while under harsh conditions, so I know you have the strength to face your own nerves about making some bold moves with your life.  I also just turned 38, and I’ve had some work challenges over the last few years (not as tough as yours though).  I have friends whose parents fled persecution in their country and came to the west at our age with absolutely nothing and didn’t even speak English, and they built a great life for their family.  It’s never too late to make changes and reinvent yourself.  It’s just hard, and it’s okay to have setbacks.  If you never second guess or get stressed about making a change, you haven’t taken any risk in life, so I hope you continue to get as much support as you can and get through to the other side. 

ysette9

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2023, 07:05:29 AM »
I’d like to throw out that I skimmed the book The Happiness Curve which talks about how humans on average are less happy in life towards middle age, and then their happiness increases as they get older. This seems counterintuitive as they are older when they start to decline physically. But it is a wide phenomenon even observed in primates, according to the author.

That may sound discouraging but what I took out of it is this is a phase. I am early 40s and have an internal battle of “I’m at a really good spot in life” and “I’m feeling unsettled and angst-y and unhappy”. I think it isn’t necessarily me or my situation but the age. It also follows that it gets better with time so there is plenty to look forward to down the road.

I’m rooting for you. As someone in the PNW my gut wants to tell you “yes, come move here and start over!”  BUt clearly that is easier said than done. Do what is right for you. People do make big moves and start over all the time, so don’t let that stop you.

Anette

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2023, 11:42:13 PM »
Ptf

Good luck go you.

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2023, 02:39:10 AM »
Big changes can be very scary, it can be a challenge to get into the right headspace for them.

You don't have to take all the steps all at once, just make sure you keep moving in the right direction. Therapy is a great step.

TreeLeaf

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2023, 05:07:17 AM »
Sorry I am just now catching up to this thread. I'm happy to hear you resigned from the job.

I actually did not expect that. It takes courage to leap into the unknown abyss in life, but in my experience it has always been worth it.

I just wanted to offer my support as yet another former trauma child on the forum. We're everywhere on this forum, it seems. It's almost like former trauma kids are seeking out that feeling of emotional safety and security they never got as a child, and seek out that safety as an adult in the form of having financial and relationship security.

I'm not going to go into the details of my life - I am slowly learning that's a bad idea, lol. 😂

Like you - I had a dream when I was younger. A dream of a certain sort of life, a certain sort of marriage, a certain financial goal, a certain dream house and career...everything starts as a dream.

The dream that you have though, is for a certain sort of life experience. A certain feeling of inner peace, tranquility, and low stress. A happy marriage and relationships.

The specifics of how you achieve these sorts of feelings and experiences though, could change, and I don't think it's wise to get attached to the specifics.

For example - you mention working at a library. But what you really want is a certain feeling. A library - most people imagine it as peaceful, tranquil, and low stress. You can achieve this same sort of feeling in many jobs and some people can achieve this same sort of feeling inside of themselves while working in jobs most people think of as very stressful. Stress is often a reflection of how you perceive your situation in life.

Everything is like this.

You also mention lacking faith in the world and other people. I can certainly understand this feeling, as another trauma kid.....it can be challenging to develop faith in a world and people that once left you so incredibly broken.

No matter who you have in life though, no matter the situation, you should always maintain faith in yourself and your ability to adapt, change, and grow as a person. You should never question the faith you have in the person staring back at you in the mirror.

The very first thing you will face in the morning are the thoughts running through your own head. This is also the last thing you will experience before going to bed at night. You will spend far more time thinking about what you said in the past than the time you spent saying it, and you will spend far more time worrying about bad things in the future that never occur than you will spend actually experiencing these negative things.

Your relationship with yourself, and your own thoughts, and the internal experience these thoughts create, is just as important as your relationships with other people, if not infinitely more so. These thoughts help to shape both your internal experience of life, and will eventually get reflected into the external reality you experience later on in life.

Thinking the wrong sorts of thoughts can quite literally create a living hell for yourself, both internally and eventually in your external world in the form of broken relationships, a failing career, and even extreme physical health challenges later on in life.

So - you know - the relationship you have with yourself and these thoughts is pretty important.

Also pretty important is the ability to understand the message someone is trying to tell you (sorry this is an inside joke running around in my own head right now - completely unrelated. 😂)

ETA: Seriously though - if you ever feel like you lack resources or don't understand yourself or need support - just go to @Metalcat journal here. I'm not the best at communicating the message I'm trying to get across at times, but there are tons of people who check that journal and will offer support and guidance from their own life experiences and it has helped teach me a lot about myself.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 05:20:03 PM by TreeLeaf »

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2023, 10:37:47 AM »
@lhamo
thank you for sharing this! This looks very cool, I will look into it.

@eyesonthehorizon
Fortunately my boss will be traveling again for the summer, so I won’t have face-to-face contact with him for a couple more months. Working side by side with him is by far the most loathsome experience of the job. I’m going to get a Flexjobs.com subscription and look into remote admin work. I’m unsure if the pay would be sustainable longterm, but like you said, maybe it’s worth getting into a suboptimal situation temporarily until something else opens up.

And you’re right about that cultural lie of it being too late. I remember telling myself it was too late for xyz life changes when I was like 24 years old, which doesn’t make any sense obviously. I need to strike down these thoughts when they pop up. Toxic work environments like this also have a way of breaking down your self-esteem and making you feel like you can’t do anything else. Which is total bullshit.

Meditating has been a little helpful in stopping the anxious rumination. Those thoughts just spin in circles over and over, they never go anywhere helpful or even actionable. They’re not serving me at all.

It’s funny that our whole generation has this fantasy. I wonder if what we’re all craving is a manageable pace of life, a sense of belonging in our communities, and an inner peace that are all, apparently, total anathema to modern culture. 

@TreeLeaf
Thank you so much, I think you communicated your thoughts very clearly. What you’ve said about wanting a certain feeling, and that that feeling can be found in many places, not just in a library or bookstore.. that rings very true to me. I’m only now coming to realize how right you are about my relationship with myself and my thoughts. It always felt completely out of control to me, and I’m starting to look back and see the ways in which my mindset sabotaged many relationships, jobs, opportunities, etc, because my inner talk was a hellscape of negativity, doubt, and cynicism. It’s tough to face the fact that I did a lot of this to myself, but it’s better that I’m facing it now than never at all.

So I’ve been journaling and meditating every single morning. I wasn’t fully consciously aware of how negative the very first thoughts I would have in the morning were until they started spilling out on to the page. With both practices, I’m finding that I can slowly talk myself down from the ledge. By the end of the journaling sessions, another voice appears that is benevolent, kind, and encouraging. By the end of the meditating session, I feel calmer and more in tune with the world around me, and less trapped inside my skull.

My belief in the past was that I couldn’t really change my thoughts and feelings, because they came at such a rapid, frenetic pace, and also I identified with them—I thought they were my Self. But they’re not my Self, and it’s not impossible to change them, it’s just hard work. Moreover, it’s hard work that I need to prioritize if I’m ever going to grow and develop a life I want to lead. It’s just like you said: my internal experience of life is directly shaping my external reality. I never took this idea very seriously before, because it seemed like magical thinking. But now it seems so obvious. All my behavior is going to stem from my inner experience, so I need to fight tooth and nail to cultivate a healthier, more positive internal experience.

@rockeTree, @JAYSLOL, @ysette9, @Anette, @Metalcat
Thank you so much for your compassion and encouragement. I’m taking what you’re saying to heart, and I’m so grateful to you for taking the time to help a total internet stranger. I felt alone in this struggle, and the things everyone here has shared has been a powerful reminder that I’m not alone at all, that tons of people go through this and they survive it. So I’m reminding myself that I’m going through this pain right now because I’m going through a lot of growth. I’m determined to survive this and come out the other side in better shape.

Another positive update:
- Right now I’m on the West coast, where I flew to visit some old friends for the week. The past me would not have planned this trip because he wouldn’t have taken his own wants/needs seriously enough to do it. On the plane, I looked out the nearly window the whole time, watching the US landscape change from forests and hills, to wide flat plains, to mountains, to canyons, to deserts. I’ve never been this far West and I’ve never seen any of those things before in person. It was breathtaking. And it reminded me that the world is so much bigger than the narrow scope in which I’ve been living. There is so much more out there to see and to experience, and I owe it to myself to make it a priority to do more for myself. To take charge of my own life and not to be cowed into submission by a shitty job and a poisonous mindset installed in my brain when I was too young to know any better.

Thank you all again, from the bottom of my heart. I hope to update you soon with more positive developments and more steps that I’ve taken to move on.

ysette9

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At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2023, 10:07:14 PM »
I’m so glad you got on that plane and are visiting a new place. Reading your words
I was imagining all the times I’ve flown from California to Denver and back, looking out the plane window. It is fascinating just how much nothing there is out there. All of that flat, dry, desolate land before you get to California. I would see what looked like little trails going all over the place, seemingly connecting nothing to nothing. I would wonder who made them and who uses them and just what is there out there. Occasionally there would be a bright green perfect circle surrounded by dessert, maybe some crop experiment? It never made sense. It is cool also going over mountains and seeing the line between snow and not and thinking about how the elevation changes impact temperature. When I’d fly back to California in the winter it would be brown and desolate almost the entire trip, and then popping over the last set of mountains heading towards the Bay Area it would suddenly be green. I loved that.

I hope you enjoy your trip and see new things. It is true that the world is huge.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2023, 09:24:18 AM »
Congratulations on taking the plunge across the country. I hope it’s a great time and gives you some new insights into what you want next. It was several flights before I wanted to anything other than look out the window while in the air. Just thinking about it stirs a lot of memories and thoughts.

the_hobbitish

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2023, 11:50:34 AM »
Your comments about wanting a clean break and disappointment about going back to your job hit close to home for me. At times I feel like I have an idea of how I want an event to go that I associate with having done it well or what makes it a good experience. I'm trying more to acknowledge that life is messy and an event can have both good and bad experiences in it, but still move me in the right direction and be overall great. The same thing has happened, but we can change the story we tell ourselves about it. You're making huge changes in your life - they don't have to look a certain way or follow a particular timeline to be a step toward creating the life you want.

@eyesonthehorizon is so right about the lie that you can't change your mind or that you have to adhere to someone else's image of achievement. I'm two weeks into leaving a well paid career at 40 to work a year long minimum wage position in horticulture because my old toxic job was making me miserable. I'm now exposed to a whole different group of people with a different set of expectations about life. That alone is worth this experiment because it's helping me consider options I might have overlooked before. You may find something similar as you start exploring new options.

I get how you can feel like you're in a corner and that life doesn't look like you expect. I thought I would be married with kids well before 40. I did mourn that my life looks different than I expected. Now I'm on to new dreams and I'm excited about the future. It was a messy process and that's ok. The right therapist was a great help, so I definitely encourage you to persue that. I hope you keep leaning into your dream and searching for ways to make a life you love. It's ok if it's not a straightforward path.

Also wanted to add that I found my faith at a hard point in my life where unexpectedly prayer for help suddenly seemed like the right answer. I will probably never be a church goer, but prayer continues to be a source of peace and comfort to me. If you're interested I'd be happy to tell you about my experience and point you in the direction of a good resource or two. If not, that's ok too. :)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2023, 11:53:34 AM by the_hobbitish »

rockeTree

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2023, 04:41:05 PM »
How are you doing, friend?

Ford Prefect

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2023, 11:04:05 AM »
Thank you very much for checking in! I'm sorry it's been a while since I posted an update--I may have over-committed to extracurricular activities in the panic to live my life. It's been a whirlwind couple of months.

I started moonlighting on Saturday nights working live sound at a famous music venue in my city, which I got through an old college connection. It's not sustainable financially, but it would have been an ideal job in my 20s when I had the stamina to work late nights and lived with a bunch of roommates that brought my housing costs down. It's sort of a midlife crisis job--one last hurrah in the music industry before I'll likely have to put my dreams of doing that professionally behind me. Nevertheless, it's been a fun (and very challenging) experience, and a good way to reconnect with my love for working with music and sound, even if it's not practical to do it long term.

I met up with some old childhood friends for a weekend away. They recommended learning SQL and trying to get data analyst work as a somewhat-easy path towards increasing my income, having a marketable skill, and maybe even getting remote work. I've done some cursory research on it and it seems like I could get certified cheaply and quickly, relatively. Though I'm not sure if it's something I'd be good at, or if AI would soon make this job obsolete for humans. But cynically speaking, if I could earn more from straightforward, clearly delineated work, that might be healthier for me even if the work is seems very dull. The weekend with my childhood friends also added to the wake-up call: their lives are all moving forward and growing--they're married or getting married, having children, advancing in their careers. They're flourishing, and I'm still essentially living like someone just out of college at 38 years old. I know comparison is the thief of joy, and what makes them happy might not make me happy, but the stark contrast in the trajectory of the lives of people I've known since I was a kid was impossible to notice.

I've also been talking with a therapist friend of mine about what it takes to become a therapist. I've been interested in psychology since I was a teenager, and took a bunch of classes during undergrad, but always assumed I was too mentally messy to be able to help anyone. She assured me that a lot of (perhaps most) therapists get into the field because they too had terrible childhood experiences and struggles with mental illness, and that's what compelled them to want to help others. It would be a big commitment--she explained to me that I would need to take 2 years to get my Masters in Social Work, and then intern for 3 years to get my LCSW.  Paying off my undergrad loans was a huge hurdle for me, which I only had achieved in 2019. So the idea of taking out more student loans gives me serious anxiety, prompting questions like "what if I turn out to hate being a therapist, or burn out and can't do it anymore?" I don't want to be saddled with debt so soon after finally releasing myself from it. But also, as I've been job-hunting, it's becoming increasingly clear that if I want to change careers, I'm going to need to pay for at least some training, certification, or an advanced degree.

If I put aside the loans/money part of the equation, I think I would enjoy the work. My friends have always told me that I'm very patient, a good listener, emotionally intelligent, and sensitive. And I really like listening to people and helping them feel seen and heard, it makes me feel very good. It could be a fulfilling job. My therapist friend says that there's a shortage of male therapists, especially in couples therapy, so maybe I could find a niche there. I still have a lot of research to do re: the cost of an MSW degree.

I also went on a weekend meditation retreat at a Buddhist monastery, which was a very positive experience. It's helped my meditation practice and helped me get outside of my own head for a bit. Before my big epiphanies this year, I thought my life wasn't important, in the negative way, and because I didn't see myself in any kind of future, I didn't know how to build one and ended up just accepting whatever bare minimum it seemed to offer me. After the epiphanies, I felt like my life is Very Important and I need to take it Very Seriously. But the retreat has helped me aspire towards a balance between the two. Life is light and ephemeral, but also it matters.

I had a brief audience with the roshi of the temple, and basically laid out my personal crisis: that I've felt lost for as long as I can remember and had no clue how to cultivate a positive life. He'd probably heard this kind of outburst a thousand times before. He told me that a lot of people spend their entire lives feeling lost, and never, ever face it. He said that going on this retreat was a big step towards personal change, and that staying with the sorrow of my regrets about how I've lived isn't helpful, that I must use that feeling to guide my behavior in the present moment, and that the future will unfold accordingly. He said it's okay to take things one step at a time, and that I don't need to figure it out all out in advance, which is definitely an unreasonable expectation I placed on myself to try to make up for all this lost time. He said that he too has many regrets, and that he believed he was totally alone for a long time. He said I'm not alone. And then he said, emphatically, "We need you" and I basically started crying. Until he said that, I hadn't fully faced the feeling I've carried with me since childhood--that I've never felt wanted by others, let alone needed.

I'm flying back home tonight after a week trip to Montreal, staying with a friend of mine. It's such a beautiful city in the summer, and a potent reminder that there are other ways to live in this world. The narrow confines by which I've been living have kept me so small, so featureless and joyless. The friend I spent it with, we're both single and care about each other a lot. We spent a lot of the week talking about our visions of the future, the desire to find a partner, and so on. It was like a little experiment in having a domestic partnership together, which felt safe and amazing and peaceful, so I took a risk I wouldn't have taken before: I asked her over breakfast if she ever thought that we would make a good couple. She told me that she's thought a lot about it but that we probably wouldn't be emotionally compatible--she describes herself as too dominating. Maybe she was just putting me down easy by making it sound like a deficiency in herself. It's hard to imagine anyone would want to be with such a weak-willed, directionless, ineffective man. But at least I spoke up.

I'm still utterly daunted by the future and by all the hard work it will take to move my life forward--not to mention the fear that I might accomplish it all and still be alone, empty, and unhappy. But I'm still trying to take it to day by day, step by step, trying new things and exploring. I'm terrified to death every single day, but I'm trying to face it head on.

iluvzbeach

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2023, 12:57:19 PM »
Thank you very much for checking in! I'm sorry it's been a while since I posted an update--I may have over-committed to extracurricular activities in the panic to live my life. It's been a whirlwind couple of months.

I started moonlighting on Saturday nights working live sound at a famous music venue in my city, which I got through an old college connection. It's not sustainable financially, but it would have been an ideal job in my 20s when I had the stamina to work late nights and lived with a bunch of roommates that brought my housing costs down. It's sort of a midlife crisis job--one last hurrah in the music industry before I'll likely have to put my dreams of doing that professionally behind me. Nevertheless, it's been a fun (and very challenging) experience, and a good way to reconnect with my love for working with music and sound, even if it's not practical to do it long term.

I met up with some old childhood friends for a weekend away. They recommended learning SQL and trying to get data analyst work as a somewhat-easy path towards increasing my income, having a marketable skill, and maybe even getting remote work. I've done some cursory research on it and it seems like I could get certified cheaply and quickly, relatively. Though I'm not sure if it's something I'd be good at, or if AI would soon make this job obsolete for humans. But cynically speaking, if I could earn more from straightforward, clearly delineated work, that might be healthier for me even if the work is seems very dull. The weekend with my childhood friends also added to the wake-up call: their lives are all moving forward and growing--they're married or getting married, having children, advancing in their careers. They're flourishing, and I'm still essentially living like someone just out of college at 38 years old. I know comparison is the thief of joy, and what makes them happy might not make me happy, but the stark contrast in the trajectory of the lives of people I've known since I was a kid was impossible to notice.

I've also been talking with a therapist friend of mine about what it takes to become a therapist. I've been interested in psychology since I was a teenager, and took a bunch of classes during undergrad, but always assumed I was too mentally messy to be able to help anyone. She assured me that a lot of (perhaps most) therapists get into the field because they too had terrible childhood experiences and struggles with mental illness, and that's what compelled them to want to help others. It would be a big commitment--she explained to me that I would need to take 2 years to get my Masters in Social Work, and then intern for 3 years to get my LCSW.  Paying off my undergrad loans was a huge hurdle for me, which I only had achieved in 2019. So the idea of taking out more student loans gives me serious anxiety, prompting questions like "what if I turn out to hate being a therapist, or burn out and can't do it anymore?" I don't want to be saddled with debt so soon after finally releasing myself from it. But also, as I've been job-hunting, it's becoming increasingly clear that if I want to change careers, I'm going to need to pay for at least some training, certification, or an advanced degree.

If I put aside the loans/money part of the equation, I think I would enjoy the work. My friends have always told me that I'm very patient, a good listener, emotionally intelligent, and sensitive. And I really like listening to people and helping them feel seen and heard, it makes me feel very good. It could be a fulfilling job. My therapist friend says that there's a shortage of male therapists, especially in couples therapy, so maybe I could find a niche there. I still have a lot of research to do re: the cost of an MSW degree.

I also went on a weekend meditation retreat at a Buddhist monastery, which was a very positive experience. It's helped my meditation practice and helped me get outside of my own head for a bit. Before my big epiphanies this year, I thought my life wasn't important, in the negative way, and because I didn't see myself in any kind of future, I didn't know how to build one and ended up just accepting whatever bare minimum it seemed to offer me. After the epiphanies, I felt like my life is Very Important and I need to take it Very Seriously. But the retreat has helped me aspire towards a balance between the two. Life is light and ephemeral, but also it matters.

I had a brief audience with the roshi of the temple, and basically laid out my personal crisis: that I've felt lost for as long as I can remember and had no clue how to cultivate a positive life. He'd probably heard this kind of outburst a thousand times before. He told me that a lot of people spend their entire lives feeling lost, and never, ever face it. He said that going on this retreat was a big step towards personal change, and that staying with the sorrow of my regrets about how I've lived isn't helpful, that I must use that feeling to guide my behavior in the present moment, and that the future will unfold accordingly. He said it's okay to take things one step at a time, and that I don't need to figure it out all out in advance, which is definitely an unreasonable expectation I placed on myself to try to make up for all this lost time. He said that he too has many regrets, and that he believed he was totally alone for a long time. He said I'm not alone. And then he said, emphatically, "We need you" and I basically started crying. Until he said that, I hadn't fully faced the feeling I've carried with me since childhood--that I've never felt wanted by others, let alone needed.

I'm flying back home tonight after a week trip to Montreal, staying with a friend of mine. It's such a beautiful city in the summer, and a potent reminder that there are other ways to live in this world. The narrow confines by which I've been living have kept me so small, so featureless and joyless. The friend I spent it with, we're both single and care about each other a lot. We spent a lot of the week talking about our visions of the future, the desire to find a partner, and so on. It was like a little experiment in having a domestic partnership together, which felt safe and amazing and peaceful, so I took a risk I wouldn't have taken before: I asked her over breakfast if she ever thought that we would make a good couple. She told me that she's thought a lot about it but that we probably wouldn't be emotionally compatible--she describes herself as too dominating. Maybe she was just putting me down easy by making it sound like a deficiency in herself. It's hard to imagine anyone would want to be with such a weak-willed, directionless, ineffective man. But at least I spoke up.

I'm still utterly daunted by the future and by all the hard work it will take to move my life forward--not to mention the fear that I might accomplish it all and still be alone, empty, and unhappy. But I'm still trying to take it to day by day, step by step, trying new things and exploring. I'm terrified to death every single day, but I'm trying to face it head on.

Ford Prefect, I'll start by saying I am not at all good with words when trying to write them down and I know others will provide something better and more eloquent than I can.  That said, the process you've been through just on this thread and your way of writing is so touching.  It's clear you are an introspective, caring and special person.  Your vulnerability in the parts I bolded above is really something.  I found it sad that you've never felt wanted or needed by others.  You are and you have been, you just haven't met the right people/person yet.  You are not weak-willed, directionless or ineffective.  You are just going through the process of figuring out yourself and other things in life.  I am eager to see some of the terrific responses that I know others will provide.

Tass

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2023, 06:52:56 PM »
Usually, threads like this go one of a couple ways.

1. OP is too defensive to realize they have a problem.
2. OP makes excuses for why none of the advice offered applies to them.
3. OP agrees with the advice but changes nothing.
4. OP disappears and nobody ever knows whether they took the advice.

This thread is incredibly inspiring. Instead of any of that, you have been honest, receptive, and committed to finding a better way forward. Even in your update that you are keeping the job for now, you were incredibly clear-eyed about why (and it doesn't sound like that's a permanent plan). A setback isn't a failure. You've been making actual, meaningful changes (the travel! the career exploration!) and writing very insightfully about what you've learned from each experience.

I have more faith in your ability to build a better life than almost any thread along these lines I've read before.

partgypsy

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #94 on: July 19, 2023, 12:57:38 PM »
It's sounds like you have been going through a huge period of growth. Growth is not "comfortable". It's challenging, scary maybe terrifying at the time. But the more you do the more you have the capacity to stretch in a ways different than usual. I also find this thread inspiring and malcat is Great to listen to. After grad school I was in an abusive work situation. What turned out to be a huge favor, my boss fired me (then in damage control, called HR and said I quit). I had wrapped up so much of my self worth and future in it, it was awful (plus I had unpublished first author papers I had to walk away from, plus I had a 6 month old and was the primary breadwinner). Anyways. You don't know how bad it is affecting you, until you are completely out of the situation. Hopefully you can check in in a year or 2 and give us an update if this original thread lapses. Ps re: the friend. No woman wants to feel they are sloppy seconds or some kind of back up plan. If you visited where you were confident in your life path, visiting and communicating your interest before then, vs oh yeah we get along and I also need a place to land, the convo might have been different. Everyone is more interested in someone operating from a place of confidence and intention, than a place of fear. But that's just my take.

Sandi_k

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2023, 01:43:19 PM »
What @Tass said.

You are enough. And as a woman, I know MANY women who would appreciate a male partner who is not marinated in toxic masculinity and arrogance.

I am excited by your willingness to try new things - and I am confident that this openness will lead to new people, a new sense of connectedness, and new expertise.

You are amazing. Keep going.

Metalcat

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2023, 02:12:08 PM »
What @Tass said.

You are enough. And as a woman, I know MANY women who would appreciate a male partner who is not marinated in toxic masculinity and arrogance.

100% this, but you also have to find a way to like and respect yourself or else other people won't.

You're doing great work so far, keep at it. Focus on getting to a place where you feel happy with yourself and your life and then it will be very easy to romantically connect with people because nothing is as attractive as a person who truly knows who they are and likes themselves.

FTR, I'm currently retraining to be a therapist, feel free to PM me about it.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #97 on: July 20, 2023, 02:22:04 PM »
Just chiming in to say thanks for this amazing thread! I just read it all and am (as others) very impressed by the soul-searching you’ve done and the growth and creative ideas that have come out of it.

I think you’re now in a much better position to quit your current job for real when the right time comes, since you’ve already done it once and know how to take care of yourself when you do it again.

A few years ago, I was in a formerly good job that had turned bad, to the point that I started getting physical symptoms from the stress. I started applying for jobs, but didn’t know what I actually wanted to do after so many years of having done the same thing. In the end, it took a whole year (I was still at the old job, but applying for other things helped me create a mental distance from it), and in retrospect I’m glad it did. This is because my view of what I can and want to do changed A LOT during that year, as I read job ads, imagined myself in those jobs, went for a few interviews, etc. In the end, I ended up getting and accepting a job I might never have applied for in the beginning, doing something I didn’t even know existed.

The process matters, not only because it shapes the outcome but also in itself. It’s still hard work when you’re in the middle of it.

ysette9

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2023, 11:04:23 PM »
These are really encouraging updates. It is an honor to be an audience to this self exploration and growth.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: At a crossroads in life and could use some sage counsel.
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2023, 07:52:57 PM »
Broken record here but what Tass said, & also I’m really glad you were able to have that conversation with your friend - as a strong-willed personality myself, I think she very much did say that out of genuine compassion & consideration. Being able to be fully yourself matters a lot in a partnership; when you have an intense personality can require you to muffle yourself (at least sometimes) not to drown out or overwhelm your quieter friends, & it’s harder by miles to keep that up in the heightened emotions associated with a romantic relationship. It means she values you for you, being yourself, not an accommodating mirror. That you were able to have the conversation like mature adults speaks well of both of you individually & of that friendship.

There is a lot to respect there & across this thread. The pivot to looking for the next right thing instead of expecting to reach a point where you can chart a whole course at once is a good one.