Author Topic: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?  (Read 13898 times)

tmoneyearlyretiree

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I am discovering I really like this girl I've been dating but thought I'd ask if anyone has a similar experience and how it's affected your FIRE plans. She's three years older than me and has about 120k in debt. She's one year away from being an attending surgeon where she'll make about 200-250k starting. She is going through this minimalist challenge with one of her girlfriends where they try to give away one item on the first day, 2 on the second, 3 on the third etc. until 30 on the 30th day. I think she really gets the idea of not working forever or at least having flexibility to take time away and do global health work.

She's three years older than me, and I'm wondering about 1) if anyone thinks the age difference is an issue. I think this is a cultural thing since I've been raised in the South and most couples I see the guy is older. 2) will the surgeon lifestyle limit my semi-retired lifestyle right now? I am looking to get involved in some new businesses and continue to write and blog but I'm wondering if once a partner goes into surgery if they just stick with it even if they don't need to financially. She would have to work about 5 years to get to the point of financial independence at a 20k lifestyle and 3) child care issues for couples where the mother is a surgeon does the burden basically fall on the non surgeon partner?

Feel free to address one or more. Just wanted to see if I could get some wise people's feedback. This community has helped me make sense of things a lot in the past.

FIRE47

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2015, 04:03:42 AM »
You are probably right in that it will affect your FIRE date, someone doesn't go to school for (8-10 years?) to become a surgeon to work for just 5 years and live on 20k the rest of their life - I think it would be foolish to expect them too and also a poor financial decision imo.

The good thing is, starting pay of 250k? That can only help any and all financial goals.

As for age, who cares especially since its only 3 years, I doubt anyone will think anything of it. Maybe if it was 10+ years but even then its no ones business. Its not like people will be able to tell 3 years by looking at you. As for anyone close to you that will know they will quickly forget and get over even if it was an issue.

Gray Matter

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2015, 05:40:31 AM »
I think if you remove the word "female," you may be able to answer some of your own questions (I don't mean that in a snarky way, just that the more salient point here is "surgeon" not "female").

1)  Does a three-year-age difference matter?

2) Will a surgeon lifestyle limit the spouse's semi-retired lifestyle right now?  Once a partner goes into surgery, will they just stick with it even if they don't need to financially?

3)  When one partner is a surgeon, will child-care basically fall on the non-surgeon partner?

My response to the questions would be:

1)  No.

2)  Probably.  Someone, anyone, who has invested that amount of time and money into a career is unlikely to want to walk after five years.  That said, why not ask her?  She may like the idea of FIRE as much as you do and also like that being a surgeon is a fast means to that end.

3)  Probably.  When one partner has a demanding career, more household/childcare duties generally fall to the other partner.  Again, I would talk to her about her expectations.  There may be sub-specialities of surgery that allow for part-time work and non-emergency work, which she may or may not be interested in.

If you find the majority of your life goals align and you think you're good together, the above are likely surmountable.  Though outsourcing some household/childcare stuff may slow down her FIRE, if she doesn't mind working, then that might be a good solution.  You can have adequate time to focus on your business interests and semi-retirement and as much of the household/childcare stuff as you want.  Everyone can have most of what they want if you're committed to finding a path forward.

That said, you may not want to have to work through these issues with her, or you may rather be with someone whose goals align more precisely with yours, and that's totally fine, too. 


ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2015, 06:28:37 AM »
The age only matters if you want kids and her age/career path doesn't match with kids.

KisKis

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2015, 06:51:41 AM »
Score!  You landed a surgeon.  Haha, jk. 

DH's and my siblings are all doctors, as well as a number of cousins and uncles.  (We are the FIRE-driven slackers in the family.)  Yes, being married to a doctor/surgeon is hard as a lot of the housework and childcare may fall to you.  Surgeon hospital hours are crazy, but clinic hours are a lot more flexible.  I have a friend who is a breast surgeon.  All her surgeries are scheduled 6 months+ in advance, and she blocks off Tuesday mornings and Thursday mornings off for tennis.  Surgeon pay also allows financial flexibility to splurge on anti-mustachian things like a nanny/au pair which can help give you (the at-home spouse) some much needed "me" time.  The doctors I know aren't very mustachian, but they have happy lives, and usually have some sort of part-time childcare/cook helper.  Their percentage of saving isn't as high as mine, but they are saving much higher raw dollar amounts.  ...they just tend to blow it all in big chunks on boats or million dollar+ lake houses, which I happily use, so no complaints.

I can see why a mustachian would appeal to a surgeon.  You can help rein in the social pressures to keep up with the joneses in doctor world, and help budget to get those loans paid off quickly.  You should talk with her more about this long-term life philosophy type stuff.  Maybe figure out what her ideal life would be, her thoughts on children, retirement, housework sharing, etc., and see if they line up with your own.  As a relatively more career driven/less-domestic female, I am so grateful for my Southern husband.  He is awesome at home maintenance and loves spending time with the kids fishing and outdoors.  He has no psychological hangups about making less, and his goal is to retire ASAP and be a SAHP.  We do split the housework, and I usually take over the kids once I get home to give him some free time to relax.  It's a perfect dynamic.   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 07:48:02 AM by KisKis »

Schaefer Light

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2015, 07:09:09 AM »
Jackpot.  I'd quit and play golf every day ;).

hops

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2015, 07:40:41 AM »
I can see why a mustachian would appeal to a surgeon.  You can help reign in the social pressures to keep up with the joneses in doctor world, and help budget to get those loans paid off quickly.

Bingo! My partner is a doctor (not a surgeon, but her post-fellowship pay will be similar to that of OP's girlfriend) and when we first started dating, I was nervous about explaining my frugality because so many of her colleagues and superiors spend lavishly or expect to in the future. She was a lot more enthusiastic than I'd anticipated, due to her passionate hatred of her own student debt.

I don't expect she'll ever want to retire early, and it's true that the non-doctor partner ends up doing a lot more of the housework, but it's not difficult to see the rewards in the future: she wants to devote her life to practicing medicine, and she'll be able to do so while eventually having the ability to set her own schedule. (She's also guaranteed generous amounts of paid vacation.) Because of the wealth we'll build once her loans are eradicated, I'll also be able to pursue my own passions.

Your girlfriend can obviously answer these questions a lot better than we can. It's important to discuss these things now, early in the relationship. The demands of her job will take a toll not just on your girlfriend but on different parts of your relationship, and if you're not on the same page about everything it won't take long for resentments to build.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 07:43:21 AM by hops »

NorCal

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2015, 07:42:23 AM »
This is pretty similar to my marriage.  My wife is three years older than me.  Other than me getting to give her an occasional good-natured hard time about her age now and then (just be VERY careful about how you do this), it doesn't matter at all.

She's a lawyer that had about $150K of student debt when we met, but had the high salary to go with it.  I have always been a kind of frugal person, she didn't understand the concept of the word when we met.  In the end, we've kind of met each other in the middle on that front over the years.  Our overall frugality is getting better as a couple now that we're putting more focus on what's truly important in life.

If we had to choose between one of our jobs, keeping the higher paying job is the logical choice.  But we haven't had to make that choice.  I do end up doing a bit more of the housework, as she works so much.  We split daycare drop-off & pick-up, but I'm on call for it more frequently due to her schedule and my shorter commute.  I think we've found a good balance, and it works well for us.

It works because we both pitch in where needed and where it makes sense.  If you have pre-defined notions that some part of child care is "womens work" or bringing home the biggest paycheck is "mens work", this probably won't work for you.  But if you're happy helping around the house in whatever way makes sense for your relationship, you'll be just fine.

How it impacts your lifestyle is entirely up to the two of you.  She's obviously going to experience some big changes in her life once she starts working.  Her lifestyle will change in ways neither of you can predict.  How you make that work is entirely up to you.

KisKis

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2015, 08:27:36 AM »
I've been working with a three month old and it's monumentally difficult. MONUMENTALLY. I did not realize how hard it would be, and I'm leaving my job as a result. And I'm a secretary. If I mess up at work because my daughter woke me up hourly last night, it's a problem. If a surgeon messes up at work due to sleep deprivation, it can be a tragedy. I think you generally don't know how working with a child is going to turn out until you do it.

Yikes, let's not terrify the poor guy.  Just so you have both ends of the spectrum, this is not always the case.  I have deep empathy for serpentstooth.  It is not easy to have two working parents, but it isn't always difficult either.  I think this will largely depend on your and your eventual baby mama's personalities.  I only took 4 weeks of maternity leave with each of my children.  I breastfed each for 22-23 months by pumping during the work day.  (I only mention this because this can be a big issue financially and emotionally for moms.)  They didn't sleep through the night until about 8 months old, but DH helped a lot with those nighttime wakings.  We also coslept and that helped a lot because I could just roll over and nurse them back to sleep.  I am lucky to have a very supportive spouse and in-laws.  A good support system with reliable family/friends is very very important.  My sister-in-law who is a PA took 12 weeks maternity leave, and she is now back at work also nursing and pumping.  She has a magic baby who sleeps through the night.  Doctors might actually be better suited for baby hours because they already work terrible hours during their residency.  My siblings would laugh if you called them out on sleep deprivation.  Welcome to the entire medical world.  Recommended read: House of God by Samuel Shem.  My brother-in-law is in residency for radiology (which has a surgical component) with a 7-month-old who is more on the high maintenance side, and he and his SAHW are doing fine as well.

Parenthood is no walk in the park, but I don't think it is any more difficult for doctors than any other high-powered job.  I personally think about work as a vacation from family and family as a vacation from work.  I am happy in both places (though I would choose family over work in a heartbeat).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 08:36:31 AM by KisKis »

CommonCents

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2015, 08:50:46 AM »
I really hope we're not still stuck in a world where women are prized solely for their beauty (i.e. youth) and men for their wealth rather than things such as intelligence, sense of humor, caring, compatible interests, etc.  3 years is really nothing.  (In fact, I'll admit it actually pissed me off that someone would see this as an issue. 10, sure there might be some concerns, and we can start to split hairs about what about 8? or 7?  But 3, really?  I can't think of a reason why it would be a concern - it seems shallow, that you think you ought to only date equal age or younger.)

Even if you want a large family (say 4-5), you can do it - wait till she's through residency around 29/30 and start, same time as many others do.  It's only if you want an extremely large family (6+) you need to manage it carefully:  you can 1) start early, 2) time kids closer together, 3) do IVF, 4) adopt.  And that many kids isn't really compatible with her career choice (or many careers I venture) anyways.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 09:06:17 AM by CommonCents »

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2015, 09:00:12 AM »
I like the Age/2 + 7 formula myself ;)

AZDude

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2015, 09:44:55 AM »
This is probably a situation where you would FIRE and she would keep working. In a way, since surgeons are so busy and have unpredictable schedules, it would probably work out well, time wise, since any free time she did have, you would be available. On the other hand, its possible she looks at you like a mooching bum if you quit your job while she keeps working making the big bucks. Certainly her family will probably, at least initially, think that about you.

Good luck.

tmoneyearlyretiree

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2015, 09:57:47 AM »
Her parents are from Hong Kong, traditional family so I imagine they might think I'm odd. Good news is she says her dad and I would agree on most things so that would be easier.

The older male younger female thing has mostly been a cultural thing that I grew up with. I'm open to it, and I feel like the only limitation there is family size but with both of us in our 20s it shouldn't matter.

She's finishing her fellowship this year (she's 28 and I'm 25 fyi, she started college 2 years early and got into a 2+4 med school program so is very young for where she's at in the medical hierarchy, another reason I'm attracted to her, very smart woman). Since we met right at the beginning of my semi-retired status she knew about it and the reasons so I don't think that'll be an issue.

Big X factor is she wants to pursue a second fellowship where she'll make 60-70k a year for 3 years again because she's passionate about global health. She's torn between that and just going to practice since that's what her family wants her to do to start making real doctor money. I view that as a good sign though, it's not about the money for her. I wasn't planning at all on dating seriously and then I met her, funny how that works out. Do any doctors or partners of doctors have stories about early retirement? It's not a career that you're supposed to walk away from, not that any are but especially not medicine.

Just wanted to provide some extra info , appreciate the feedback I'm getting so far

northernlights

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2015, 10:23:03 AM »
One of my best friends is a military surgeon and she is married to an elite-type military guy. It definitely seems to work for them and I think they are planning on doing the military FIRE once each of them has 20 years in. They definitely have to hire care for their child, but they can afford to do so.

My OBGYN is married to someone who is a stay at home dad, and it also seems to work great for her. He has a part-time consulting gig and is the primary caregiver.

KisKis

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2015, 10:23:24 AM »
On the other hand, its possible she looks at you like a mooching bum if you quit your job while she keeps working making the big bucks. Certainly her family will probably, at least initially, think that about you.

Her parents are from Hong Kong, traditional family so I imagine they might think I'm odd. Good news is she says her dad and I would agree on most things so that would be easier.

Too funny.  My parents are also Chinese immigrants.  My dad is from HK, and my mom is from the mainland.  My dad doesn't really have (voiced) opinions about who I'm with, but my mom was worried in the beginning because she said DH lacked ambition.  Actually, he is extremely motivated to FIRE, but not motivated to have a high powered corporate/engineering/medical job, which is what my typical asian mom meant.  We have now been married nine years, and my mom absolutely loves him, and always gives me totally inappropriate advice on how to keep him happy.  She has really come around on "American" men, and thinks they are much better at home maintenance and fatherhood than Chinese husbands.  She is still obviously stereotyping all day long, but I honestly think she would choose differently for herself now that she has seen my relationship with DH. Actually, mustachian values are very close to some of the most highly regarded traditional Chinese values - like budgeting, frugality, good eating/eating anything, non-wastefulness, etc.  DH is a very adventurous eater, and that won him instant points with my grandparents.  They always pat him on the belly after a large meal, squeeze his arm muscles and say "oh, so strong, good eater."  DH's dried venison and fish are some of their favorite gifts to receive.  Good ol' Southern fishing and hunting skills.

tmoneyearlyretiree

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2015, 01:43:52 PM »
This is making me feel better, never realized there were so many couples out there that were similar to my current situation. I was raised in a small town in the South that was not very diverse racially but life is full of surprises in dating a daughter of Chinese immigrants. I suppose humanity in general will move towards this mixed race makeup over time. Anything to watch out for or be careful of when the woman makes significantly more and the guy is trying out ER? The comment was mentioned that couples divorce more when the woman makes more but I wonder if that's also the case with mustachian couples?

okits

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2015, 08:33:13 PM »
You're both so young that her being a few years older is a good thing.  Statistically, men die younger, so her being a bit older means you have a better chance at more years of life together.

If you are not hung up on stereotypical cultural expectations (wife younger, husband must earn more), this sounds like it has the possibility of being a very happy union.  Many problems can be solved by throwing money at them (unmustachian but true.)

LouLou

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2015, 08:41:17 PM »
You need to stop asking these questions and start trying to get her to marry you!  Just kidding.  In all serious, she can pay off those loans in a year.  If she's doing minimalist challenges, she may be planning to do that anyway.  Just ask her what her plans are.  Why does she like the minamalist challenge?  You're thinking about a saving challenge, would she be interested?

You also need to spend some time asking yourself some questions about your views on gender.  Will you be bothered by her making more money than you? Be honest with yourself.  I married my husband in law school.  Before him, I dated guys who were clearly uncomfortable with the fact that I would soon be making more money than them.  They would probably feel safer if they were the breadwinners, even though some of them did not have high earning potential.  My husband's reaction to my paycheck? "THIS IS AWESOME."  My student loan debt was in the six figures when I left law school, but we are steadily knocking them back.  We've paid down tens of thousands so far this year, and I still feel like we spend too much money on nonsense!  And if I ever decide to say, go part-time, I would still make about $80k to $90k per year under my firm's rules.  PART-TIME!!!!

Side tracked, just got excited about my life.  Again, spend some time investigating yourself.  We all have assumptions and prejudices baked into us that can only be erased with intention.

Anything to watch out for or be careful of when the woman makes significantly more and the guy is trying out ER? The comment was mentioned that couples divorce more when the woman makes more but I wonder if that's also the case with mustachian couples?

I would say that the spending habits of your spouse would matter a lot more than what they make.  There are plenty of people with spouses who make nothing but like expensive cars, gym memberships, clothes, vacations etc. Look at the forums for examples! I also know people who make a lot of money and are relatively frugal.  Being ER with a high earner sounds great if the high earner is frugal or saves even moderately sounds great.

lhamo

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2015, 11:35:30 PM »
One good thing about marrying into a Chinese family:  saving heaps and heaps of money is considered normal (unless maybe they are nuveau riche (sp?) Mainlanders).  My DH is also from the mainland, though not ethnically Chinese.  He's 10 years older than me and was nearly 38 when he introduced me to his parents, so once they figured out I spoke Chinese and they could talk to me it was like "hallelujah, we have a contender for the DIL role!" and I was immediately embraced as part of the family.     

See if she can put off the global health thing until after she is established in her primary surgical specialty.  Not because it isn't valuable/worthwhile, but just because it might be better to wipe out the bulk of her debt and also really establish her skills.  The better a surgeon she is the more valuable she is going to be to a community in need.  It will probably also be easier to identify opportunities, both short and long term.  If you and she both have an interest in living and working overseas at some point, consider doing a stint in one of the expat oriented hospitals in China -- I get a sense the packages are pretty good, and being in country on a regular salary gives you an opportunity to do a lot of charitable work on the side, or even through the hospital's charitable wings.  The hospital we used to use -- United Family -- has a foundation and does a lot of pro bono work with orphans and poor children, who can't always afford even subsidized rates that they get through the local system. 

I wouldn't worry at all about a 3 year age difference.  And most likely the cultural differences won't be deal breakers, either.  Just make sure you are more or less on the same page in terms of bigger goals and values.  And good luck! 

bradleylsmith

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2015, 12:50:29 PM »
Would you rather be FIRE without her or working till retirement with her and maybe some kids? Ultimately, relationships should be about love and if you love your future FIRE dream more then her that's telling.

wordnerd

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2015, 01:23:13 PM »
I think if you remove the word "female," you may be able to answer some of your own questions (I don't mean that in a snarky way, just that the more salient point here is "surgeon" not "female").

Thank you.

Potterquilter

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2015, 03:01:24 PM »
My DH was an operator in a nuclear power plant. They are open 24/7 and when TSHTF everyone is on round the clock duty as every day the plant is down the company loses mucho money. Christmas, weekends, nothing matters. He loved it, but it meant the household and childcare were many times all me. Luckily I was a nurse and worked on call. When life was normal, I worked more. When it was not, I worked little.

It is a different lifestyle that other family members and friends might not understand. But if you love someone you work it out.

Nords

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2015, 04:45:42 PM »
Anything to watch out for or be careful of when the woman makes significantly more and the guy is trying out ER? The comment was mentioned that couples divorce more when the woman makes more but I wonder if that's also the case with mustachian couples?
My impression of your situation is that you'd better quit wasting time asking the Internet what you should do, and start having some serious life discussions with this woman before she decides to move on. 

The book you're seeking is "When She Makes More" by Farnoosh Torabi, another high-earning woman who's the daughter of immigrants.  Farnoosh researched the literature and interviewed people for over three years and has a ton of good advice.  You two will be fine together but there will be surprisingly Neanderthal expectations from society and perhaps parents-in-law.  In other words you'll get some thoughtless & insensitive commentary that might seem more humorous after the fact.

Doctors have no reason to ever retire, but she sounds as if she still knows how to live like a resident.  Sure, you two could be living in Manhattan or Los Angeles while she's a rock-star surgeon to billionaires and celebrities-- but you could also end up traveling the world as part of Doctors Without Borders.  She has skills and could earn a living anywhere for as long as she wants, and you could do the same in your chosen field.  Everything after that is communication and thoughtful compromise.  Personally I'd try to avoid dictating lifestyle ultimatums to people who are experts at cutting up other people.

As for the financial aspect of being a doctor, you might want to read WhiteCoatInvestor.com.  Jim Dahle is a trauma surgeon (and a Navy veteran) who routinely advises medical students on debt ("live like a resident") and doctors on their investments.  He also posts to Bogleheads.org as EmergDoc.  I think she'll appreciate where Jim is coming from, and I think you two will find a way to quickly reach financial independence while doing the things that you enjoy. 

In the hole

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2015, 07:06:40 AM »
This girl sounds amazing. She's 28 and FINISHING her gen surg residency? That's seriously incredibly impressive, and with her low debt burden (yes, believe it or not that is an extremely low level of med school debt) she can get out from under those loans quickly. Like, within a year or two quickly. Also based on her evident nonmaterialism and passion for global health she sounds like a great person.

Now the bad: General surgeons typically work like dogs. If she wants to work full time and have kids you'll need help (hired or otherwise) or you'll be the primary caregiver (not a bad gig if you like it). Someone here posted an anecdote about a breast surgeon with a good lifestyle. Just know that breast surgery is the best "lifestyle" field in all of gen surg, and not representative of the field as a whole. There's lots of clinic, surgeries are straightforward and can be scheduled as you like, you don't often get called in at 3AM for things, except the occasional post op complication that you cant have the residents manage.

Kids, career goals and expected household roles are three of the most important things to discuss with any potential future spouse. So you guys are no different. Time for some long coffee dates while you figure out what you want. Best of luck!

Jakejake

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2015, 08:53:16 AM »
I see some euphemisms here that I want to rephrase. "I was raised in the south" and "it's a cultural thing" is a roundabout way of saying "I was raised to be sexist."

You were raised to believe that men should be older, wiser and worldlier, and women should be weaker, dependent household servant types.

That's not a criticism of you, but if the culture you were raised in. I'm putting it out there very bluntly because that's the elephant in the room. You need to address that for the relationship to be healthy and successful, because she sounds like an awesome person who is none of those things.  For me, a man with those values would set off serious alarms.

So when I read through your dilemma, for me the issue is not can it work if she makes more than you and is older but rather can it work for a sexist man to be married to a strong independent woman? And I think the answer is only "Yes, if the man changes" (which I suppose is a fancy way of saying no.)  I think you need to look at changing your own views before worrying about how many years it will take her to pay off her school debts.

JonasNC

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2015, 09:17:53 AM »
It sounds like you and I are in a remarkably similar situation.  My wife is in residency for Anesthesia instead of surgery, but otherwise our situations are almost identical.  I am moving towards FIRE as quickly as I can and plan for us to be FI before she completes her residency.  She has dedicated a lot of time and effort into her medical training, so I know that she will continue to practice long after we don't need the income.  We have also come to the conclusion that when/if we have kids I will most likely be the primary care-giver.  This was a major mind-set shift for me, but it makes sense.  I make a good salary, but it requires constant travel and still doesn't equal her earning potential.

BTW, go ahead and ignore the jerky comments I've seen in the thread along the lines of, "You saying you grew up in the South really means you're just sexist and probably racist too."  The fact that you're acknowledging these worries and working on them is a good thing.  I think that's a lot more valuable that someone acting like you're a bad person for ever having had a worry or thought.

One thing that DW and I have talked about is to hope that in 10 years or so she will scale back her practice so we can spend more time travelling and being together once our stach has grown to truly ridiculous proportions.

Jakejake

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2015, 10:29:08 AM »
Oof, I didn't mean to imply that everyone growing up in the south is sexist! His statement that it was his southern upbringing came off as him dancing around what he meant, which is that he recognizes he's been raised to be sexist. If I was reading between the lines right, he was the one equating southern upbringing with sexism. (If that isn't what you were getting at, please correct me!).

And that's something that would need to be confronted head on before getting into a marriage, whether it's through self-reflection or marriage counseling. My intent wasn't to be a jerk; I think it's hard to confront an issue head on if you can't bring yourself to state what the real issue is.

CommonCents

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2015, 12:52:47 PM »
I see some euphemisms here that I want to rephrase. "I was raised in the south" and "it's a cultural thing" is a roundabout way of saying "I was raised to be sexist."

You were raised to believe that men should be older, wiser and worldlier, and women should be weaker, dependent household servant types.

That's not a criticism of you, but if the culture you were raised in. I'm putting it out there very bluntly because that's the elephant in the room. You need to address that for the relationship to be healthy and successful, because she sounds like an awesome person who is none of those things.  For me, a man with those values would set off serious alarms.

So when I read through your dilemma, for me the issue is not can it work if she makes more than you and is older but rather can it work for a sexist man to be married to a strong independent woman? And I think the answer is only "Yes, if the man changes" (which I suppose is a fancy way of saying no.)  I think you need to look at changing your own views before worrying about how many years it will take her to pay off her school debts.

+1

Nords

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2015, 01:13:39 PM »
And that's something that would need to be confronted head on before getting into a marriage, whether it's through self-reflection or marriage counseling. My intent wasn't to be a jerk; I think it's hard to confront an issue head on if you can't bring yourself to state what the real issue is.
In Farnoosh Torabi's "When She Makes More", she points out that she and her spouse are totally on the same page.  No need for "confronting" or "self-reflection" or marriage counseling.

The problem that she and her spouse have is the sexist attitude of Farnoosh's mother.  Farnoosh and her spouse can laugh about it later, but it still hurts.

Goldielocks

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2015, 02:52:38 PM »
The posters are correct who indicate that home responsibilities ( whether managing a housekeeper or doing it yourself) will indeed fall to the spouse with less money, especially once children are involved and you can't let things slide in a pinch like you could if it is just property.

Two new ideas to add to this...
1. Highly unlikely that a traditional HK or mainland man would find a highly paid surgeon their ideal wife.  An American raised husband is likely by far the best type of partner for her, and therefore, you.

2. She may not quit in 5 years but a lot of women physicians do slow down before 50, or stop even.  The ones that continue do so beacuse they get satisfactyion from it.  If you are a typical mmm your idea of retirement may not be to do nothing, but just be choosy about what you do and what your life quality is like.  You could find yourself with your own part time business and being sole income earner, without needing to make 90k, and loving it, in your after 45 years...  Heck, this could give you tons of options after kids are 10 yrs or so..if you plan to have any that is, or lots of freedom to choose your career activities.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 02:54:36 PM by goldielocks »

frugaldrummer

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2015, 08:25:10 PM »
A few thoughts:
1) Age - I was 4 years older than my ex- husband. For much of our marriage the age difference was unimportant, but it did have an influence in the beginning and at the end. In the beginning because I was ready to marry and have kids, and he wasn't. We married when he was 24 and I was 28, and had our first of three children when I was 30. Although it was a mutual decision at the time, when he turned 50 and started having a midlife crisis, he felt like he had missed out on sowing his wild oats in his twenties. (Fwiw, he is now remarried to a woman 18 years younger, and my boyfriend is 8 years younger.)

2) we were both medical students when we met, I was one year ahead. Even though he is very smart, he always had a chip on his shoulder about the fact that I was better at tests than he was. I felt that we just had very different talents: I was great at some things, he was great at others. But he felt that I was smarter than he, and resented it. It takes a very confident man to be with a brilliant woman.

3) she very well may choose to work for a long time, if she loves her work and derives satisfaction from it. Would you be okay being FIREd and she works full time and only has 4-6 weeks vacation?  Would you be okay carrying more of the weight childrearing (although you would be able to afford some household help)? 

4) does she desire a high rent lifestyle?  If so, will she resent you not pulling your share?

5) will she want to go to part time or quit when she has kids, and then resent you for not bringing in the big bucks?

6) will you feel that her prestige will make you uncomfortable? (Imagine accompanying her to a gala affair and people asking you what you do; will you be uncomfortable answering househusband?

It could definitely work if she shares your long term goals. If she wants to save up then work part-time, and you want to be FIREd in order to have the freedom to work on interesting projects, that could be great. But if she wants a more typical financial lifestyle, OR if you dream of driving around in a camper for a few years, it probably won't work.

hodedofome

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2015, 09:29:00 PM »
I have a good friend who's wife is a family doctor and he's a stay at home dad, that works part time from home. She works 4 days a week and they attack the loans and mortgage pretty hard. Yes, the kids are in private school/ Mother's Day out. They have babysitters frequently and a housekeeper. But otherwise live pretty frugal for a doctor family. He's a laid back guy and has no problems staying home with the kids, especially for the money they pull in.

Another good friend is a surgeon and his wife is a part time pediatrician. They are great people, but have the $500k house and put in the $80k pool and have the new Suburbans / Tahoes + ski trips and the like. They have nannies and housekeepers and lawn care and meal preppers. She doesn't work during the summer. He's in no hurry to pay off his loans. She spends freely without any kind of a budget, and has no idea how much she just paid for something. I asked him who did the dishes, he said he doesn't have the time and told his wife either do it yourself or he will pay someone to do it. I think they pay someone. Hey, if you have the income, why not pay someone else so you can spend what free time you do have with your family.

I figure most doctors work a full career, and besides a malpractice suit are pretty certain they will be in high demand and will command a great salary during their life. If that's truly the case, then paying off low interest loans slowly and front loading your spending isn't the worst thing in the world. If you really do have 30-40 years of great income ahead of you, then you do have time to save 'one day.' It's not mustachian but it can work, for those that love working and love their career. The only thing to really watch out for is to not compare yourself to other doctors, because there will always be pressure to spend like they do. Some buy porsches while still in school.


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tmoneyearlyretiree

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2015, 04:58:57 AM »
i absolutely agree that my unconscious cultural stereotypes are an elephant in the room. Not trying to hide that. Furthermore, I grew up in a very conservative church environment where the guy is expected to be the provider and the woman a stay at home mom. It's not bad to admit that and that I wouldn't need to feel like I'm the provider to make a relationship work.

That being said, even though I lived in the Northeast, went to college and got exposed to hardcore feminist friends who influenced my views, and consider myself open minded I think shedding what you grew up with is never possible 100%. I think I just need to be aware of my own potential pitfalls and be open about it with her.

Yeah she's pretty incredible, one time we were talking about our high school records and we were swapping stories on which AP classes we took, and I was like I took BC Calc when I was a senior and she was like I took BC Calc at 14 and got a 5, that blew me away haha.

She's really trying to make efforts to reduce her material possessions, but I don't know if this is to try and impress me or not ie is it her doing this of her own free will or is her trying to show me she cares? I suppose either one is fine. And she's in a 1600/month 1 BR place right now on fellowship income, not very mustachian but big city parents pressured her to choose a safe neighborhood  etc was the reasoning so I think that's not a warning sign. She has very nice clothes but I think I'm witnessing a transformation. Any other mustachian couples have success stories where one was frugal and one was so-so when they starting dating but you noticed an extreme transformation?

Gray Matter

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2015, 05:41:15 AM »
i absolutely agree that my unconscious cultural stereotypes are an elephant in the room. Not trying to hide that. Furthermore, I grew up in a very conservative church environment where the guy is expected to be the provider and the woman a stay at home mom. It's not bad to admit that and that I wouldn't need to feel like I'm the provider to make a relationship work.

That being said, even though I lived in the Northeast, went to college and got exposed to hardcore feminist friends who influenced my views, and consider myself open minded I think shedding what you grew up with is never possible 100%. I think I just need to be aware of my own potential pitfalls and be open about it with her.

Yeah she's pretty incredible, one time we were talking about our high school records and we were swapping stories on which AP classes we took, and I was like I took BC Calc when I was a senior and she was like I took BC Calc at 14 and got a 5, that blew me away haha.

She's really trying to make efforts to reduce her material possessions, but I don't know if this is to try and impress me or not ie is it her doing this of her own free will or is her trying to show me she cares? I suppose either one is fine. And she's in a 1600/month 1 BR place right now on fellowship income, not very mustachian but big city parents pressured her to choose a safe neighborhood  etc was the reasoning so I think that's not a warning sign. She has very nice clothes but I think I'm witnessing a transformation. Any other mustachian couples have success stories where one was frugal and one was so-so when they starting dating but you noticed an extreme transformation?

This is a very self-aware post--just wanted to congratulate you on being so self-reflective and not immediately defensive as is so easy to be.

I can't speak to witnessing a transformation, but I did want to mention one thing that may end up being an issue in your relationship, possibly bigger than age differences, her career, your respective intelligence, or your FIRE (because I think you could handle all of that based on how you're talking):  the expectations of her parents (not sure what they are, but is she willing to carve her own path in life, and are they OK with that?).

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, so I know you'll think it through--just make sure you talk it through with her as well when the time is right.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 06:35:08 AM by Gray Matter »

birdman2003

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2015, 05:55:04 AM »
Following (similar situation).

Louisville

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2015, 07:12:49 AM »
Hey OP,
Apologies if this has been mentioned upthread - I didn't see it.
You have said a lot about the practical realities of a life with this person, and my hat's off to you for that. People tend to begin to consider these things only after they've gotten married.
However, I don't see any info on how you really feel about this woman. Are you in love with her? Have you discussed marraige with her, and is she digging the idea? Does she make you weak at the knees, etc? I understand love is different for everyone, but you seem so eaten up with this analysis paralysis that you've barely mentioned the most important thing about the whole situation: AM I IN LOVE? DOES SHE LOVE ME?
This is a bit of a red flag, to me....

CommonCents

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2015, 07:39:20 AM »
Hey OP,
Apologies if this has been mentioned upthread - I didn't see it.
You have said a lot about the practical realities of a life with this person, and my hat's off to you for that. People tend to begin to consider these things only after they've gotten married.
However, I don't see any info on how you really feel about this woman. Are you in love with her? Have you discussed marraige with her, and is she digging the idea? Does she make you weak at the knees, etc? I understand love is different for everyone, but you seem so eaten up with this analysis paralysis that you've barely mentioned the most important thing about the whole situation: AM I IN LOVE? DOES SHE LOVE ME?
This is a bit of a red flag, to me....

+1

i absolutely agree that my unconscious cultural stereotypes are an elephant in the room. Not trying to hide that. Furthermore, I grew up in a very conservative church environment where the guy is expected to be the provider and the woman a stay at home mom. It's not bad to admit that and that I wouldn't need to feel like I'm the provider to make a relationship work.

That being said, even though I lived in the Northeast, went to college and got exposed to hardcore feminist friends who influenced my views, and consider myself open minded I think shedding what you grew up with is never possible 100%. I think I just need to be aware of my own potential pitfalls and be open about it with her.

Also, OP, while I applaud your awareness, I also want to tell you that yes you can overcome prejudice and other cultural shifts you learned as a child.  I recently read an article about the adult child of a terrorist who became a peace activist.  I googled, and while I didn't find the article I read, here's an interview he did (he wrote a book "The Terrorist's Son").  http://www.wbur.org/npr/349571638/the-long-scary-journey-from-a-terrorists-son-to-a-peace-activist  Thankfully, someone who was being taught to hate rejected that. 

I also agree that parents may be an issue.  You can't change their prejudices and expectations, after all - they have to do that.

IllusionNW

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2015, 02:09:56 PM »
It sounds like your situation is similar to mine.  I make a comparable amount to your girlfriend's future salary.  I'm a lawyer and work a lot.  DH makes six figures, but less than me.  I agree that having a demanding job means that I contribute less to the household than I would otherwise.  For example, we outsource house cleaning duties.

But they key for us is that we're totally on the same page about FI.  I generally manage our finances and investments and he's the more frugal of the two of us, so together we make a great team.  We plan to FIRE in less than 10 years.  Like a doctor, I have specific skills that I've really trained for and invested in, so I'm not sure I'll be totally ready to leave the legal world at that time.  But I will definitely be ready to leave private practice, so my plan is to do either pro bono work or move to the non-profit sector.  So the fact that I'm in a professional field doesn't necessarily delay our FI plans, but it does make me think differently about how I want to spend my "retirement."

TonyPlush

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2015, 10:13:01 PM »
This is making me feel better, never realized there were so many couples out there that were similar to my current situation. I was raised in a small town in the South that was not very diverse racially but life is full of surprises in dating a daughter of Chinese immigrants. I suppose humanity in general will move towards this mixed race makeup over time. Anything to watch out for or be careful of when the woman makes significantly more and the guy is trying out ER? The comment was mentioned that couples divorce more when the woman makes more but I wonder if that's also the case with mustachian couples?
Off topic, but one other thing to keep in mind... In a lot of Asian cultures it is expected that the mother eventually move in with the daughter.

I'm not sure if that applies to her, but it is common practice in some Asian cultures. My brother was seriously dating an Asian doctor for 2 years before she dropped that bomb on him. The idea of never being able to have your "own house" without the mother-in-law saying hello every morning is not something everyone is prepared to handle.

Kaminoge

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2015, 11:16:30 PM »
That being said, even though I lived in the Northeast, went to college and got exposed to hardcore feminist friends who influenced my views, and consider myself open minded I think shedding what you grew up with is never possible 100%. I think I just need to be aware of my own potential pitfalls and be open about it with her.
[...]
She's really trying to make efforts to reduce her material possessions, but I don't know if this is to try and impress me or not ie is it her doing this of her own free will or is her trying to show me she cares? I suppose either one is fine. And she's in a 1600/month 1 BR place right now on fellowship income, not very mustachian but big city parents pressured her to choose a safe neighborhood  etc was the reasoning so I think that's not a warning sign. She has very nice clothes but I think I'm witnessing a transformation. Any other mustachian couples have success stories where one was frugal and one was so-so when they starting dating but you noticed an extreme transformation?

A few thoughts. Firstly good on you for being aware of possible pitfalls in your own thinking and being able to challenge them. I must admit it totally blew me away that anyone would even blink over a 3 year age gap but it's good that you aren't just sweeping it under the carpet if it's something that could bother you later. It is possible though. I'm 10 years older than my "southern" partner and he seems to be coping just fine.

I agree with those who mention that it's hard to tell if you're really into this girl in a serious way or just playing with ideas in your own mind (and nothing wrong with that if you are - even if you never seriously pursue her it sounds to me like you're learning a lot about yourself just by thinking through all of this). But if you are serious I'd really recommend some conversations about all of this with her. Money is a huge deal in relationships and you certainly can't assume that just because she's doing a minimalist challenge that she's any sort of frugal people. Minimalist challenges are very "trendy" right now and I know a lot of people who are doing them (those and capsule wardrobe type challenges) who certainly aren't necessarily looking to be frugal.

If you are serious you also need to have a LOT of cultural conversations. I've spent a long time in Asia and some of the family differences are huge. In nearly every case of Chinese woman/non-Chinese man I know the mother moved in with them once they have kids. In the case of one of my friends who married a Chinese man (she's not Chinese) once they had kids both parents moved in with them. They ended up renting the parents their own apartment next door. Nothing at all wrong with this. In fact the baby sitting support is awesome in all cases but it certainly isn't always easy for the non-Chinese partner (or probably for the Chinese partner at times). I just spent some time this past summer with a friend who married (and had a baby with) a Chinese girl. Her parents bought them an apartment in a very expensive city (the positive). Her parents moved in with them which he wasn't aware would happen (the negative). Honestly I'd hate his life. He actually seems to like her parents (and she adores having them there) but he's definitely the one in the whole set-up who gets pretty much no say in anything.

jeromedawg

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2015, 11:35:14 PM »
Some observations and anecdote from a past conversation...Some of my cousins and I were talking about retirement around the round table recently during a wedding/reunion. The only ones at the table *not* in the medical profession were myself, my wife, and one of my cousins. The three of us concurred that we would much prefer to retire early if possible and never have to work again. All the other cousins at the table were doctors and all wanted to work as long as they could and weren't even thinking about retirement. I think for them, money probably isn't a factor and they really love the profession and want to continue helping people as long as possible. Of course, the side-benefit is the money and financial freedom... it's a very interesting perspective but I've found that most people who are doctors truly are overachievers (in the good sense), and the more I think about it the more I'd be happy settling for a doctor who is an overachiever than one who is not....LOL!

I think marrying a surgeon would be a really great move, but there could be higher expectations in terms of when *you* plan to retire... like if you wanted FIRE, and she didn't, those two things could clash. If she's OK with that all the better. But she may have reservations (e.g. just cause I make more than you doesn't mean you should feel free to not take your work just as seriously...etc etc etc)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 11:49:46 PM by jplee3 »

curlyfry

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2015, 11:35:58 PM »
In response to the "comment was mentioned that couples divorce more when the woman makes more"

that's likely because those women have the ability to leave if things aren't going well.

Similar to the fact that divorce stats have rised = that's not necessarily a bad thing - it likely just means that decades ago women were stuck in unhappy marriages with no other options.

I'd focus on whether she's someone you want to spend your life with & the rest will work out.   

My husband is unable to work at all (which does cause some tension) but it has still worked out because I chose the right person to be with.

TonyPlush

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2015, 11:25:30 AM »
That being said, even though I lived in the Northeast, went to college and got exposed to hardcore feminist friends who influenced my views, and consider myself open minded I think shedding what you grew up with is never possible 100%. I think I just need to be aware of my own potential pitfalls and be open about it with her.
[...]
She's really trying to make efforts to reduce her material possessions, but I don't know if this is to try and impress me or not ie is it her doing this of her own free will or is her trying to show me she cares? I suppose either one is fine. And she's in a 1600/month 1 BR place right now on fellowship income, not very mustachian but big city parents pressured her to choose a safe neighborhood  etc was the reasoning so I think that's not a warning sign. She has very nice clothes but I think I'm witnessing a transformation. Any other mustachian couples have success stories where one was frugal and one was so-so when they starting dating but you noticed an extreme transformation?

A few thoughts. Firstly good on you for being aware of possible pitfalls in your own thinking and being able to challenge them. I must admit it totally blew me away that anyone would even blink over a 3 year age gap but it's good that you aren't just sweeping it under the carpet if it's something that could bother you later. It is possible though. I'm 10 years older than my "southern" partner and he seems to be coping just fine.

I agree with those who mention that it's hard to tell if you're really into this girl in a serious way or just playing with ideas in your own mind (and nothing wrong with that if you are - even if you never seriously pursue her it sounds to me like you're learning a lot about yourself just by thinking through all of this). But if you are serious I'd really recommend some conversations about all of this with her. Money is a huge deal in relationships and you certainly can't assume that just because she's doing a minimalist challenge that she's any sort of frugal people. Minimalist challenges are very "trendy" right now and I know a lot of people who are doing them (those and capsule wardrobe type challenges) who certainly aren't necessarily looking to be frugal.

If you are serious you also need to have a LOT of cultural conversations. I've spent a long time in Asia and some of the family differences are huge. In nearly every case of Chinese woman/non-Chinese man I know the mother moved in with them once they have kids. In the case of one of my friends who married a Chinese man (she's not Chinese) once they had kids both parents moved in with them. They ended up renting the parents their own apartment next door. Nothing at all wrong with this. In fact the baby sitting support is awesome in all cases but it certainly isn't always easy for the non-Chinese partner (or probably for the Chinese partner at times). I just spent some time this past summer with a friend who married (and had a baby with) a Chinese girl. Her parents bought them an apartment in a very expensive city (the positive). Her parents moved in with them which he wasn't aware would happen (the negative). Honestly I'd hate his life. He actually seems to like her parents (and she adores having them there) but he's definitely the one in the whole set-up who gets pretty much no say in anything.
Can't believe someone would date a person for this long, or even marry a person in your friend's case, and never share these plans. But it's the same thing that happened to my brother.

It's like Asian women just assume everyone has this practice, and spring it upon their spouse like it's no different than the weekly grocery list. And by the time they do, the guy is too emotionally invested to say no. Sometimes I wonder if this is done intentionally to trap the man.

Abe

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2015, 09:24:37 AM »
My wife is Chinese, and her parents have no plan to live with us. In fact, they live in China currently and plan to move back to the US about 1000 miles from us. My wife also has no desire to have her mother live with us when we have kids. I think the family moving in together in Asia has to do with culture, but also with cost of housing and childcare, especially in big cities.

Going back to the topic of discussion - I'll be a surgeon soon (two more years of training! woo!) and she's a family physician. We anticipate my schedule to be busier than hers, and plan to have a nanny while the children are young. Once they're old enough for school, they can sit in after school and read until we're done with work, just like I did! <old man fist shake>

Talking with the females my program (and those who have since graduated) - most of them plan to work long-term and their husbands handle most of the household things under management of the wife! They are almost all going into academics, which is much more flexible regarding hours than private practice (with commiseratively less pay).
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 09:29:24 AM by Abe »

OlyFish

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2015, 02:26:55 PM »
I am a female physician, so I have a few insights. A lot of this is my own feelings about things, which are probably not the same as hers.

first of all, if she is taking $200k as a general surgeon then that is on the low end, and she could shop around for a higher salary. That is below the 25th percentile of pay for the non-surgical specialty in which I practice.

I am going to have all loans paid off by 6 years after leaving residency, while at the same time maxing out my 403B and contributing to my 457 plan; total I am investing 12% pre-tax while paying off our debt. our home mortgage will be paid off 3 years later.

I also started out with more debt (around $177K in student loans alone).

I plan to retire earlier than what is "normal", but still probably in my early 50's- mid-50's. I love my job, it is fulfilling to me, and I currently have four day work weeks with 28 vacation days per year. I also invested all of my 20's to get to this point where I am actually enjoying what I do, so I'm not interested in quitting immediately as soon as debt is paid off and we've saved enough. I could see myself going down to 3 days per week when I am in my mid-40s, depending on how things are going in medicine at that time.

When/ if my husband and I have kids, he will stay home with them (he already works from home right now, and does not make much money). He is fine with this. I know multiple other female physicians and surgeons in similar situations, where their husband stays home with kids. There are more women coming out of medical school now than there are men, and I think this is the natural progression of that statistic.

TL;DR: she probably likes what she is doing, and won't want to quit, and you might end up being a stay at home dad if you're okay with that.




Dicey

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Re: Anyone married a female surgeon? Has is affected your FIRE date?
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2015, 10:51:53 PM »
I'm only qualified to comment on #1, so here goes. I did not marry until I was 54. My husband is three years younger than I am. The thing we both find hilarious is that nobody ever thinks that I'm older. Why? What's left of his hair is completely grey. OTOH, I have dark brown hair with very little grey so far. My point is that being older and looking older are two different things and largely dependent on fate/genetics. We don't worry about it, we just enjoy every day together.