Author Topic: Adult children's futures  (Read 2786 times)

frugaldrummer

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Adult children's futures
« on: April 09, 2019, 03:07:27 PM »
I'm not really going to retire early as I'm in my early 60's already. Life events (my spendy ex-husband's midlife crisis, my health issues, other things) have precluded early retirement but I'm well set up now for my own retirement. In fact, I could retire today if I truly wanted to, although with a little less cushion than I would like.

However, I have three adult children and my family is one of those statistics where the kids are not likely to attain the lifestyle of their parents. All 3 have some mental health issues that are impacting their futures. (1 Aspergers. college graduate and employed but under-employed due to anxiety/ Aspie issues, 1 finally graduating with a MSW - will be employable but not likely to ever get rich in that field, one with severe anxiety and depression recovering from an addiction who is trying to learn coding as he doesn't want to return to college).

Extreme longevity on both sides of the family and my ex remarried a woman only a few years older than my kids, so although they will eventually inherit something from my ex and from me that's likely to occur when they are older than me.

I also feel that there is so much more uncertainty in their futures (in terms of climate change and other drivers of global unrest). 

I feel like right now I am continuing working more to ensure their futures than for mine. I enjoy my work and feel that continuing to work for the next few years, I could put that money to work for my kids in some way.  (Obviously this is in addition to trying to help the oldest and youngest get established in better careers, and teaching them frugal habits).

My question is, how would YOU go about ensuring your adult children's futures? In the next year I could start contributing to IRAs for them. I could consider saving up to provide them with down payments on homes if they ever reach the point that this is feasible for them.  I could consider trying to start a business that they could work at (but the oldest and youngest would probably not get along in a work environment so it might have to be either/or). I could buy property in another part of the country poised to do better with climate change (I'm in the Southwest) with the thought that they might eventually need to move to such a place.

Other ideas about ways to accomplish this goal? I'm thinking about $200-300K that I could earn over the next few years and direct to such goals.

StarBright

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 03:27:09 PM »
I really appreciate this post! I've recently been thinking along similar lines for my children who are 5 & 7. DH doesn't want to RE and we have enough for me to Coast FI/stay at home spouse now - but I've really been thinking a lot of how to ensure my children have enough to pursue their dreams in adulthood.

This is what I'm planning:
https://actionecon.com/building-generational-wealth/

Not quite appropriate for your situation - but might be useful for others who read this thread?

But putting into Roths for your kids could be super helpful. I am very into Roths for their flexibility on first time home withdraws, education withdraws, and ability to serve as an emergency savings account in addition to retirement funds. I had an ex whose dad maxed his Roth for him every year. It gave my ex a ton of financial security (emotionally and literally).

Additionally, I have a younger brother with some mental health issues that made his 20s pretty darn precarious. One thing my parents did for him was to pay off the rest of his (very reasonable) mortgage. His biggest issue was maintaining employment (from a combination of oustide factors like outsourcing and internal issues like anxiety). So my parents figured if his house is paid off then at least he'll be able to meet most of his own needs on unemployment or sporadic pay when they eventually aren't around. The lovely thing is that he has really evened out in his 30s and is able to a good seward of his own money. But it really gave my parents peace of mind.

You sound like an awesome mom! I hope your kids appreciate you :)

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 03:34:50 PM »
I wish it was possible to buy them homes but real estate where we live is super expensive right now. Certainly if the real estate market were to crash again that's what I would do.  None show any interest in moving out of state to lower cost locales. 

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 03:41:24 PM »
Along those same lines - I have considered the possibility of trading my home for another with some land and room to build a "guest house" type accommodation, but really only the oldest is likely to want to live where I do, and he's happy living at home with me anyway.  Plus it would cause my property tax to double even if I bought a property worth the same amount as my current house.

mm1970

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 04:06:36 PM »
Being able to buy a home for them would be nice.  I am hoping that when my kids are adults, they are independent and all that.  But you never know, really.

I have some friends and acquaintances with adult children with issues.  Some addiction issues, some health issues, some under-employment and depression issues.

Their parents have done the following things (these are many families, not one!):
- purchased a condo
- paid for insurance
- paid for addiction treatment
- taught them how to live on their meagre salaries

Some of the parents have accepted that their kids were "different" (and that they may never become grandparents), and have done the best they could.

Cassie

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 04:26:47 PM »
At age 65 I have lost 3 of my friends between the ages of 59-67.  I think this is something to think about when you are talking about working longer for the kids.  My 3 kids won’t do better than us but the step kids will. Regardless I didn’t work longer to help them.  Not every generation does better. We helped the kids when they were young and needed it but were never in a position to do it in the big way you mentioned. I was a social worker like your daughter. I worked for the state so at least I get a small pension.

GizmoTX

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 04:43:33 PM »
OP, have you read the Millionaire Next Door? How you choose to fund adult children can make or break them. You also need to make absolutely sure that you have enough assets for your own retirement and possible health issues before funding adult children.

Having said that, we did and do think that the best help we could do for our child was to provide good role modeling and step by step money management from a very young age as well as accumulate the means for a good education. 

When DS was 1 (1994), we set up an irrevocable trust fund for him, primarily to fund college or trade education, but the trust document also allowed distribution for his "support or health" if need be. We chose the trust vehicle because we wanted to retain control (which eliminates UGMA) & keeping the assets in our names would subject it to the kiddie tax. 529's didn't exist but we'd still want more control. DS could elect to receive 50% of any residual trust funds upon graduation from a 4 year university or equivalent trade certification, then 25% of the original residual at age 30, and the balance at age 35, but he is not required to (this has later advantages). We funded it annually with an amount less than the annual gift tax limit. We chose indexed funds to invest in for tax friendliness. We are the trustees, but have named an investment bank as trustee if/when we die.

When DS was applying to university, we told him that any costs he could save, such as scholarships and/or graduating on time, would stay in the trust and ultimately be his. He was awarded substantial merit scholarships so we were able to cash flow his remaining expenses without touching the trust. Since the trust cannot be attached by creditors or a divorce settlement, DS will not need a prenup if/when he marries. He can use the trust for a house, start a business, or let it accumulate as an education fund if he has children.

When DS started working during his HS summers, we matched his earnings to contribute to a Roth we helped him open. When he worked as a engineering intern during college summers, we encouraged him to fully fund his Roth himself (we no longer needed to match it). He is now fully employed as an applications engineer, fully funds his Roth as well as his employer's 401K & HSA, & is debt free. We are very proud of the independent young man he has grown to be!

We have a nephew who received UGMA stock from his grandparents intended for his education, at least $100,000. He tried community college but didn't have a solid goal and failed at it. He's now 27, still lives with his parents, & has never held a real job -- I can't help but think that his stash has been counter productive. 

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 05:12:56 PM »
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At age 65 I have lost 3 of my friends between the ages of 59-67.
Yes, Cassie, I hear you - I have had 8 friends diagnosed with serious cancers in the last 16 months, including my boyfriend who has stage 3 lung cancer. I'm well aware of mortality. However, as I said, I enjoy my work, I control my own hours and work 4 days most weeks, and probably would still work part-time even if I retired now. So I don't feel like working another 3 or 4 years is keeping me from anything I really want to do (I travel on vacations and play in a band) and would help shore up my own retirement as well as allow me to improve my kids' prospects. 

Gizmo I agree that you have to be careful how you give money to kids.  I did read the Millionaire Next Door.  Up until now all my "giving" to them has been in the form of paying for college and giving free rent to two of the three (and the oldest Aspie one is considerable help with my elderly mother who also lives with me.). Now that I won't be paying for college after June I will be able to start putting money away towards these other goals, and think I will start with the IRAs except for the youngest (who I wouldn't want him to have access to cash money right now.)  I also need to save money for the youngest in case he decides to go back to college at some later date, as my ex-husband might not contribute to that (he did for the other two but my youngest hasn't spoken to his father for 2 1/2 years - with some good reason - and my ex is likely to balk at helping him.)


BicycleB

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 07:11:26 PM »
I support the idea of helping them through good modeling, discussion of wise choices, and practical support for practical plans.

As a maybe-Aspie from a family of several maybe-Aspies, full of various social cue issues and free thinkers and anxiety behaviors (hoarding etc), I can attest that some kids won't launch until they have to. I was such a kid. Dad thought I'd die on the streets if kicked out. Mom advocated "he's got to learn to sink or swim." Mom eventually won the argument. I duly figured out how to survive, eventually meandering my way to the brink of FIRE. By that point, I had gotten fired from my job but was taking care of said Dad, who had gotten Alzheimer's. His stash outlasted him; the portion of that which came to me put me over the edge of FIRE. Conclusion: accumulate, but don't give unless they are moving forward.

better late

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 08:19:32 PM »
I am glad you posted this thread, as I have been thinking a lot about how to help my kids as they become young adults. It has had me thinking about what did and didn’t work to help me become more responsible at their age. So far I have two things I will use with my kids.

1) matching. Rather than giving them $ for things, offering to match what they come up with (either 1:1, 2:1, 1:2 or some other ratio perhaps with a limit - up to $5,000 or something like that.

2) having a plan/goal for their money at all times. Asking them what they’re saving towards.

So far I don’t see any downside with these two strategies.

Abe

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2019, 11:10:17 PM »
I think matching savings is a good idea, and will definitely do that with our kid(s). We're also interested in minimizing losses due to interest on loans, so am going to fund college and further education as appropriate. They're going to end up with our money at some point, might as well use it when they're younger and we're alive! My parents helped with a down payment on our first house, and we'll probably do that if they make a good choice financially. Between those two things, they should be able to eke out a living enough to pay for everything else. Overall wherever they end up will likely be mostly up to their efforts. I'd want them to have decent quality of life, but it's not necessary for it to be upper middle class.

Mrs Brightside

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2019, 10:03:29 AM »
A friend of mine lost a parent at a young age. Another family member stepped up and agreed to loan him the money for college (at a time when tuition was more reasonable). Upon graduating, he paid the money back gradually. When he had finally paid it all off, the family member gave it all back to him. I realize this doesn’t really answer the OP but I thought it was an interesting approach to helping without giving a free ride or encouraging bad habits.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2019, 10:29:50 AM »
Quote
Most likely they won't have student loans but if they did I would first match their payments on those until paid off.

I like this idea although doesn't apply too much to my situation. My first child went through college with both my ex and I paying half. My second child took a very long time to go through undergrad, through no fault of their own (state school wouldn't count most of his private college credits so had to redo a couple of years - crazy).  My ex insisted on making a year of that support a "loan" (mind you he makes 3 times what I do - over $350k per year AND has a gainfully employed second wife who makes about 80k -and could easily afford his half) and then refused to contribute to a year-long masters degree. I still contributed my half throughout so my middle child has loans for half of grad school and theoretically owes his father for his half of a year of undergrad (which I'm hoping my cheap a$$ ex will forgive, but who knows. )  I don't feel like I should have to be the one to help him pay off the loans his father foisted upon him (this is a straight A student btw who worked super hard despite mental illness issues). And it's more of a priority for me to put away money for third son if he decides to go back to college since I cannot count on my x to contribute to that.

(Btw, my narcissistic ex made my middle child feel so BAD about asking for money like things like school books etc. that he was actually HAPPY to take a loan for grad school just so he never had to ask his dad for money again.  If you're looking for a way to ruin your relationship with your kids, promise them support then make them grovel for it.)

Lulee

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2019, 10:52:37 AM »
As hard as it will be, please listen to @BicycleB  and get your kids out the door and on their own two feet. Spend your time helping them build support networks that are robust and meet their needs WITHOUT you.  Don't let them try to work out how to be independent while grieving for you.  That would be too, too much to ask of them.

Go to their health professional/counselor/therapist (if they don't have one, they should get one, with your help if necessary) and start developing a plan for each of them to get to a point where they are completely independent of you.  The pair of you can explain to each child the need for this and why it's the best expression of love you can offer them as they reach adulthood to make sure they are fully functioning adults able to thrive on their own.  Even if it's a multiple year project, it's critical for their long term well-being.  But best it be done while you can help them negotiate wobbles and hurdles and not leave it until you're gone and they're desperate and heartbroken.

One thing the counselor/therapist for each one can advise you is if you should let any of the kids know that you're saving for their retirement.  You don't accidentally want to give the kids the impression that you think they CAN'T do it for themselves.  Severe anxiety can, from what I've seen of it, warp what is intended as a message of support into something else altogether.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2019, 11:46:20 AM »
And as for my own retirement - I will receive a portion of my ex's pension, worth about $60k a year to me but with no adjustment for inflation. This will begin relatively soon if he takes his early retirement - 5 years from now if he doesn't (pretty sure he will take early retirement as he can retire and then work halftime at work per diem for almost the same total income, and he's been anxious to retire for a long time - plus he's had health issues). I have about $520k in retirement accounts, and $15k in an HSA. Plus I will get social security - if I wait until 70 to collect that it should be worth about $35,000 a year. Between the three I should be able to have about $70-80k a year after taxes (until well past the age of 100) which would be enough to maintain my current lifestyle once my kids are independent, with a buffer that I could always downsize my house (worth $600k owe $185k) or move to a less expensive housing area in the future if need be, or rent rooms in my house if they're no longer occupied by family in the future. 

When I run the calculations, the difference between retiring now and retiring in a few years makes a surprisingly small difference in my retirement income, yet that money could make a big difference in my kids' life properly used. So that's why I envision still working for a few more years. (Would also possibly keep me from withdrawing funds during the next stock market crash which may come sooner rather than later by some indications).

frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2019, 12:32:19 PM »
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As hard as it will be, please listen to @BicycleB  and get your kids out the door and on their own two feet

That is the plan. However, my Aspie son, despite working full time and above minimum wage, doesn't make nearly enough to live independently in our area. So he will have to get a new job making much more money before that is even possible. And that requires some intensive help that I cannot give him right now while dealing with my boyfriend's stage 3 lung cancer and my other son's addiction issues.  He actually likes living at home for the social aspect of it and I don't necessarily think multi-generational living is a negative thing for him.

My youngest with the addiction and severe mental health issues would like to move out and needs intensive help to get to the point where he can make a living for himself. He's the higher priority of the two.


frugaldrummer

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2019, 01:32:45 PM »
BTW - Aspie son is completely self-sufficient except for rent - cooks, does own laundry, grocery shops, pays for his car etc.  I just provide free rent and he supplies companionship for my elderly mom.

BicycleB

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Re: Adult children's futures
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2019, 05:29:40 PM »
Quote
As hard as it will be...get your kids out the door and on their own two feet

That is the plan. However, my Aspie son, despite working full time and above minimum wage, doesn't make nearly enough to live independently in our area. So he will have to get a new job making much more money before that is even possible. And that requires some intensive help that I cannot give him right now while dealing with my boyfriend's stage 3 lung cancer and my other son's addiction issues.  He actually likes living at home for the social aspect of it and I don't necessarily think multi-generational living is a negative thing for him.

My youngest with the addiction and severe mental health issues would like to move out and needs intensive help to get to the point where he can make a living for himself. He's the higher priority of the two.

@frugaldrummer, that all sounds very reasonable. I'm glad they have such a responsible parent. Best wishes.