The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: ducky19 on September 11, 2017, 09:23:48 AM
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I almost crapped myself when I saw this headline! Have had the family on Republic Wireless for 5 years now, and have only replaced phones once each in that amount of time. Upgraded DW and I - splurged on their $200 model - kids got gently used models from Ebay for ~ $50 each. I love technology as much as the next guy, but $1,000 for a phone is incomprehensible to me. It honestly makes me sad for those whose lives aren't complete without the latest and greatest gadget...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/your-next-phone-will-probably-cost-you-dollar1000/ar-AArGCUm?li=BBnbfcL
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One could eat $12 avocado toast once a week for over a year and a half for that ;-)
Yeah, I don't get it either. My Moto G5 Plus from RW was $229 and does everything a more expensive phone does. It still blows my mind that I walk around with a computer in my pocket that's way more powerful and functional than the desktop PCs I used in the mid-90s, that can call/text and is wirelessly connected to the internet at all times and has GPS/location capabilities and contains my entire digital music library on a tiny chip the size of my fingernail.
When you stop and think about how amazing these little devices are it does make you wonder why people would pay 4x more for aesthetics or a screen that is very marginally larger because it goes all the way to the edge. SMH.
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I bought my last phone for nearly $400 and I thought it was a guilty anti-Mustachian splurge on my part to finally own a smartphone that actually had the latest Android OS. I certainly wouldn't have done it for $1000. Hopefully I'll be able to squeeze out at least four years of service out of it before my tech lust overcomes me again.
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" September 21, 1983, Motorola made history when the FCC approved the 8000X, the world's first commercial portable cell phone."
it cost $4,000, in 1983
$10k today!
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
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The worst part are all the folks who insist on upgrading EVERY year, no matter if their old phone was more than adequate. WTF? Most are on expensive plans that blow my mind.
We went down the $200 phone route, and they came with so much bloatware that they became unusable. Auto-updates would cause apps you could not get rid of to grow to fill all the available internal memory space and make the thing unable to make calls.
I see the imminent upgrade as a chance to get a 6S for the wife on clearance since her 3 year old iPhone 5 is rather worse for wear right now. My $400 Nexus 6 is still going strong, and was about the cheapest pure android phone without bloatware I could find when I got it 2 years ago.
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One could eat $12 avocado toast once a week for over a year and a half for that ;-)
I ate an avocado toast in my own kitchen last night. Cost was less than $1, and it was a fine dinner.
As for the $1000, some people might justify it because if you keep the phone for two years, you're talking about less than $10/week. Personally, I don't get it because I am not addicted to my phone and don't choose to spend big for the latest and greatest item.
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
Link please.
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... My Moto G5 Plus from RW was $229 ...
Where did you get this? I'd like a new phone, but Amazon.ca has the 32 gig model for ~350cdn (~288 USD). Still cheaper than most of the other options I've seen...
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... My Moto G5 Plus from RW was $229 ...
Where did you get this? I'd like a new phone, but Amazon.ca has the 32 gig model for ~350cdn (~288 USD). Still cheaper than most of the other options I've seen...
https://republicwireless.com/phones/moto-g5-plus/?product-param.condition=new&product-param.color=%23AF9B8C&product-param.capacity=32
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I almost crapped myself when I saw this headline! Have had the family on Republic Wireless for 5 years now, and have only replaced phones once each in that amount of time. Upgraded DW and I - splurged on their $200 model - kids got gently used models from Ebay for ~ $50 each. I love technology as much as the next guy, but $1,000 for a phone is incomprehensible to me. It honestly makes me sad for those whose lives aren't complete without the latest and greatest gadget...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/your-next-phone-will-probably-cost-you-dollar1000/ar-AArGCUm?li=BBnbfcL
And what's even more awesome: Many of the people forking over 1K will also stand in line to pick up their Precious in the day it is released.
I personally don't mind at all. I like the fact that the new iPhone is going to drive the cost down on previous models. I saved $250 on my 6+S, in two years I'll buy the 7 at a steep discount, and so on.
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I should disclose my ownership of multiple Apple mobile devices. (one of the reasons I own many is that they're very durable) But, dang, there's a lot of unnecessary yet expensive tech in these things.
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2017/09/why_you_ll_pay_for_apple_s_1_000_iphone.html
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Is it going to have a headphone jack?
SMH
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This cellphone fad will die out sooner or later.
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
Link please.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/simple-mobile-apple-iphone-se-4g-lte-with-32gb-memory-prepaid-cell-phone-rose-gold/5859415.p?skuId=5859415
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
Makes a $1000 phone look that much more rediculous. It's diminishing returns after this.
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This cellphone fad will die out sooner or later.
I see the opposite as a likely scenario too. The relatively new format of financing a phone for 12-24 months once carriers stopped subsidizing the costs has conditioned many (maybe most?) people into thinking that this is completely normal. It does not seem implausible that people are now conditioned to believe that they will always have an addition $25-50 fee on their monthly bill that is going towards the cost of the phone. The markets have mimicked the mantra of car ownership and perpetual car payment and continue this along with phones.
I always balk at this but as we know, we are not like the majority so we see things a bit differently.
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years. If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence. I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones. I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years. If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence. I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones. I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.
No conspiracy theories necessary. Apple (for example) is well known for releasing IOS updates that purposely slow down older hardware immediately before they do new product launches.
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And what's even more awesome: Many of the people forking over 1K will also stand in line to pick up their Precious in the day it is released.
And then will probably proceed to bitch about how they never have any money, life is so expensive, blah blah.
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And what's even more awesome: Many of the people forking over 1K will also stand in line to pick up their Precious in the day it is released.
And then will probably proceed to bitch about how they never have any money, life is so expensive, blah blah.
The people who insist on treating the phones poorly, dropping them and breaking their screens or letting their children use them as toys, will be even worse off. The thing with phone deals is... you can't get out of them except by paying them off. A used phone that retailed for $700 new is frequently worth only $70 used.
Unfortunately, I know people who truly believe that a $700 phone is "no big deal" because it's "only" another $30 per month or thereabouts, when spread over two years. That's "just" a dollar a day. So why not get a new phone every year, or even every few months, along with all the doodads that go with it such as cases and screen protectors? Come to think of it, why bother to take care of a phone at all? The fact that the expenses all mount up and turn into an unavoidable drain on future cash flow, preventing money from being invested or used for other purposes, doesn't seem to occur to them.
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
Link please.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/simple-mobile-apple-iphone-se-4g-lte-with-32gb-memory-prepaid-cell-phone-rose-gold/5859415.p?skuId=5859415
Sadly locked to SIMPLE Mobile (i.e. you are paying the balance through however they jack up the monthly costs, or trim down the coverage they contract for), not an unlocked phone to take to Ting or wherever you please.
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A few months ago, I spent $40 (after rebates- $70 initial price) on a Samsung Galaxy Core Prime.
That is, by far, the most I ever spent on a cell phone. My previous flip phone, which is about 4 years old, and I'm still using it because it works fine and I haven't bothered to set up the "smart" phone yet cost $19.95.
Yeah, that Samsung probably has 2014 or 2015 technology. It ain't the latest "Gee whiz" stuff. But it does what it needs to do.
Wait a few years, and you'll be able to get everything that "Hey, look at me, I just blew $1,000 on a flashy cell phone!" iPhone has, for probably $100 or less.
Although in 4-5 years, it won't have the "Hey, look at me, I've got the coolest new phone" effect, which is largely what the folks who "need" a new phone every year are looking for...
Call me crazy, but I'd rather have a $40 cell phone and $960 in a good ETF, than have a $1,000 cell phone and no ETF. Even worse, many of those suckers are buying the phone on credit.
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Gotta hand it to the marketing geniuses at AAPL that get people to keep buying these things. They haven't done anything innovative in 10 yrs, yet they continuously make you feel like you previous gen iPhone is now worthless.
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Good luck finding a two-year old iPhone for $100. They hold their value a lot better than other smartphones. For $100 you get a 5S which was released in 2013, and won't get updates much longer.
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Buying a new phone for $1k just doesn't make alot of sense. I've been buying used for a while now- I absolutely splurged on my latest: used Galaxy S 7 for $300 in Feb. It's a great phone, pretty happy with it.
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Apple will finance your £1,000 phone here in the UK... at 18% interest!
I went from a Samsung note 4 to a Moto G and found it actually had better performance without the bloatware is.
Sent from my MI MAX 2 using Tapatalk
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Of course. It's a well-known sales tactic:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/12/16297566/apple-iphone-x-8-plus-trade-in-t-mobile-att-verizon-sprint
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You can get brand new iPhone SEs for ~$130 at Walmart and $140 at Best Buy. Not cheap but dang good bang for the buck.
Link please.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/simple-mobile-apple-iphone-se-4g-lte-with-32gb-memory-prepaid-cell-phone-rose-gold/5859415.p?skuId=5859415
Sadly locked to SIMPLE Mobile (i.e. you are paying the balance through however they jack up the monthly costs, or trim down the coverage they contract for), not an unlocked phone to take to Ting or wherever you please.
Damn, good call. I did find one for $200 at Fry's nearby, but that's significantly more than $130. They're all over ebay for $200 as well.
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Did anybody else watch Apple's event yesterday? I did, because my son is a tech geek and had it on the TV. It was horrifying to watch, and I don't even consider myself a true mustachian. The way they talked about the new iPhone X made it sound like it was life changing and revolutionary. You'd have thought it was the cure for cancer. But the main "improvements" were:
1. No home button. You wake up the phone by looking into it.
2. A ridiculous emoji feature that lets you send texts to your friends as if you are an emoji talking to them in your voice. Seriously. They showed an example of sending a message as a poop emoji. http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive)
And they waxed eloquent on the beauty of the phone, its medical-grade stainless-steel finish, etc etc etc.
People will be lined up to pay between $1000-$1200 for this in November.
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It has facial recognition! When it sees you it thinks: "I recognize that face! That's the face of the dumbass who dropped a grand on a phone!"
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2. A ridiculous emoji feature that lets you send texts to your friends as if you are an emoji talking to them in your voice. Seriously. They showed an example of sending a message as a poop emoji. http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive)
They just jumped the shark.
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That press conference made me fear for our society. I spent the next hour online looking at acreage for sale.
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2. A ridiculous emoji feature that lets you send texts to your friends as if you are an emoji talking to them in your voice. Seriously. They showed an example of sending a message as a poop emoji. http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/apples-new-iphone-x-you-11158387?service=responsive)
They just jumped the shark.
As a tech geek, I read a liveblog of the keynote yesterday, and this "animoji" madness was by far the dumbest fucking thing I've ever seen. Nobody asked for that. I get that they're trying to show off their facial tracking (which appears to be quite good underlying tech), but there had to have been a less dumb way to do that.
My takeaways of the presentation:
-iPhone 8 and 8+ should have been called the 7s and 7s+. If you didn't already want a 7, there's nothing new here. Marginally bumped specs and wireless charging. Bo-ring.
-iPhone X is the "real" new iPhone. It looks to be great, but certainly not $999 great. We'll see. They've gone Windows 10 style with their numbering, which surely won't confuse anyone. I'm sure there will be (major or minor) issues with the whole no-home-button paradigm that they'll fix on iPhone XI.
-They're keeping the two-year-old 6s around at an increased discount. That's interesting. I'm sure they noticed people liked the $399 iPhone SE.
Also, Tim Cook does not at all have the charisma and enthusiasm of Steve Jobs. Just for fun, last night I watched part of Jobs' 2007 presentation where he announced the first iPhone. Now that's how you show off new stuff.
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No way would I shell out a grand on a gaming and poop emoji iPhoneX, but they dropped the price on the unlocked SE, 6S, and 7 to $349, $449, and $549.
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I went from a Samsung note 4 to a Moto G and found it actually had better performance without the bloatware is.
Sent from my MI MAX 2 using Tapatalk
my son has the Moto G. The screen's not as nice as my S 7 but he likes it
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Try as I might, I couldn't avoid the news about the new iCrap being announced yesterday. I watched a video by the Verge about the new iPhones, and sure enough in the comments, were posts like "broke android fanbois can't afford the new iPhone...".
For some reason this stuff really triggered me. There is a reason Apple is one of the wealthiest and most profitable companies in the world, because their iSheep consumers don't mind grabbing their ankles and bending over to let Apple have another one. In many forums, iSheep will even post "Apple makes the most profit of any smartphone maker!"... as if proclaiming that your vendor makes the most amount of money off you is a great thing.
I can never understand this fetish for over-priced Apple hardware. To pay $1k for a smartphone is beyond absurd. I work in tech and make well over 6 figures, but even I would never foolishly flash $1k for a smartphone.
Am I that out of touch with the rest of America that will line up in front of Apple stores and buy out the new iPhones at launch? In my world, Apple would go broke or at least price their phones 50% less. If everyone lived like me, I don't think Apple would do very well.
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Am I that out of touch with the rest of America that will line up in front of Apple stores and buy out the new iPhones at launch? In my world, Apple would go broke or at least price their phones 50% less. If everyone lived like me, I don't think Apple would do very well.
I'm sitting in a room with at least 4 smart well paid techs who are planning to do exactly that. They can't not, they have to have the latest thing. It's not even logical anymore, they don't even really care about any of the "features." It's just they can't bear to be left out of having one. They all have the Apple iPhone Upgrade thing so it's the same $56 a month whichever. iPhones have become like cars - everyone expects to just upgrade every x years and always have a payment.
I had to crank up my headphones so I didn't hear the event yesterday (of course we had to watch it in IT). Considering all the disasters happening currently, watching Apple flaunt their excruciating wealth was just sickening. AND they played "All You Need Is Love" as their opener. I CAN'T EVEN.
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Am I that out of touch with the rest of America that will line up in front of Apple stores and buy out the new iPhones at launch? In my world, Apple would go broke or at least price their phones 50% less. If everyone lived like me, I don't think Apple would do very well.
You are that out of touch with the world because you want to save money. This forum is a sheltered community of anti-establishment thought. I think you know that, but just supporting your stance. Smartphone costs have been absurd for years.
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Try as I might, I couldn't avoid the news about the new iCrap being announced yesterday. I watched a video by the Verge about the new iPhones, and sure enough in the comments, were posts like "broke android fanbois can't afford the new iPhone...".
I was enjoying reading the comments on a Forbes article about it. I had to inject some trolling - "As a shareholder, I'm LOVING this herd mentality!"
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Am I that out of touch with the rest of America that will line up in front of Apple stores and buy out the new iPhones at launch? In my world, Apple would go broke or at least price their phones 50% less. If everyone lived like me, I don't think Apple would do very well.
You are that out of touch with the world because you want to save money. This forum is a sheltered community of anti-establishment thought. I think you know that, but just supporting your stance. Smartphone costs have been absurd for years.
At the end of the day, prices will be what the market will bear. I import a lot of products and it shocks me to see what they end up retailing for. That said, it also makes me happy because it supports my livelihood....at least until I've accumulated my FU money.
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I got a new IPhone, in 2011 when it was cool....now everybody is doing it.
lol, 2 1/2 yo RW phone moto something calls and text,sometimes has problems, cracked screen, still have my original RW phone with shattered screen and will use as a backup in case this one goes suddenly. use it as a music player at work.
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I got a new IPhone, in 2011 when it was cool....now everybody is doing it.
lol, 2 1/2 yo RW phone moto something calls and text,sometimes has problems, cracked screen, still have my original RW phone with shattered screen and will use as a backup in case this one goes suddenly. use it as a music player at work.
I remember when having a blackberry was a status symbol. First it was only executives. Then their secretaries started having them. Next thing you know, everyone and their moms was chatting on BBM.
Apple has something like 50% of the US smartphone market. Whether it's wise or not for people to drop $700 on a smartphone, they stopped being exclusive a long time ago.
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This wireless charging thing...
before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end.
I'm ordering 3.
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This wireless charging thing...
before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.
I'm ordering 3.
You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.
/sarcasm
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I'm going to iPhone 8 Plus, 64 GB model, black. I'm using a 5+ year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It's upgrade time. The purchase will not make a dent in FIRE plans.
I'm done with Android and the lack of support after 2-3 years on pure Google Devices. Apple gives you 5 years of iOS Support (http://iossupportmatrix.com/). I'm tired of having to turn to 3rd party builds like LineageOS to provide security updates that Google refused to provide after 2 years.
The only downside is battery replacement, but being a handy mustachian with tools and the iFixit guide I can replace it.
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This wireless charging thing...
before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.
I'm ordering 3.
You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.
/sarcasm
My bad, I didn't notice that the phone is wireless, not the obligatory charger. It's truly a great value if you don't think about it.
On a serious note I think wireless charging is really a cool concept, but it's not a great improvement if we're not able to charge something from a distance. With today's tech and for this price... meh.
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This wireless charging thing...
before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.
I'm ordering 3.
You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.
/sarcasm
My bad, I didn't notice that the phone is wireless, not the obligatory charger. It's truly a great value if you don't think about it.
On a serious note I think wireless charging is really a cool concept, but it's not a great improvement if we're not able to charge something from a distance. With today's tech and for this price... meh.
My electric toothbrush has had this feature for many years. Are we now saying that the iPhone has caught up to the technological level of my toothbrush?
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To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.
The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars. Consider that it was not uncommon to:
* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services. These could easily run$10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.
* To have to buy a special dedicated portable phone, pay to have it installed in a car, sign up for special service just to be able to call from a non land line. Early cell phones easily exceeded $10k in price.
* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks. Easily over $10k more.
* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.
* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)
* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time. Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.
* Gaming systems cost hundreds, if not thousands. I remember paying $200 for a device that only played chess, $100 for some primitive football Mattel device. Now your phone can deliver massive multiplayer, real time action, a thousand strategy games against other humans.
* Devices now translate on demand.
* How many travel books, guides, translator services, free advice, restaurant reviews do we get cor free now...
* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.
The list goes on and on. The value received by modern humans with access to the latest phone technology makes $1000 (roughly a week of work) seem like such a bargain, it boggles my mind people find it usury.
In the very near future, phones will be the foundation of identity to seamlessly deliver many services, including easier access through security at airports and lower credit fraud costs through verified identity for financial transactions via the biometrics (e.g. the facial recognition). Apple is using the (Somewhat dumb) early tech adoptors to help fund core tech innovations that eventually will transform many services in ways we cant yet imagine. They know what they are doing i expect.
Just a different point of view (that said, I am still on a 4S and refuse to upgrade...😁)
So basically, if the latest iPhone were for sale in 1990 for $1000 it would be an incredible value. But in 2017 you can buy something that will do all of those things for much less.
BTW, props for sticking with the 4S, I wish I could say I did the same. I gave up on mine about a year ago, when I started restarting itself over and over while charging, and stopped being able to play podcasts smoothly. I ended up buying a Nexus 6P (which is so fancy it's ridiculous) for around $330, I'm hoping I can get at least 3 more years out of it.
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I'm going to iPhone 8 Plus, 64 GB model, black. I'm using a 5+ year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It's upgrade time. The purchase will not make a dent in FIRE plans.
I'm done with Android and the lack of support after 2-3 years on pure Google Devices. Apple gives you 5 years of iOS Support (http://iossupportmatrix.com/). I'm tired of having to turn to 3rd party builds like LineageOS to provide security updates that Google refused to provide after 2 years.
The only downside is battery replacement, but being a handy mustachian with tools and the iFixit guide I can replace it.
What is so tiring about LineageOS?
I just got my grandma her first smart phone after months of her complaining she's behind the times. Got her a Nexus 6P, for $220 on ebay. It does have a dent in the metal, probably why it was a bit under market value but she will never see that cause I put a case on it.
I put LineageOS on there and she has the latest security patches without all the crap stock OSs come with.
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This wireless charging thing...
before: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then plug the other end to your phone. Then unplug your phone. Repeat multiple times a day.
after: plug one end of a wire to an USB port then place your phone on top of the other end. No more plugging and unplugging ever.
I'm ordering 3.
You are oversimplifying the difference. It is obviously worth $800-1000 to not have to plug in and unplug your phone 1 or more times per day.
/sarcasm
My bad, I didn't notice that the phone is wireless, not the obligatory charger. It's truly a great value if you don't think about it.
On a serious note I think wireless charging is really a cool concept, but it's not a great improvement if we're not able to charge something from a distance. With today's tech and for this price... meh.
I see wireless as making more of a difference in public spaces. Right now if you want to charge your phone when you're out and about, you have to bring a charging cable with you. With wireless, you can set it down on a table/desk/bar that has wireless charging built in and be good to go. They have this at some airports, but it's usually in pretty inconvenient locations. The more common it becomes, the more convenience it adds.
With that being said, I don't care much about it and don't have it on my phone.
I'm going to iPhone 8 Plus, 64 GB model, black. I'm using a 5+ year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus. It's upgrade time. The purchase will not make a dent in FIRE plans.
I'm done with Android and the lack of support after 2-3 years on pure Google Devices. Apple gives you 5 years of iOS Support (http://iossupportmatrix.com/). I'm tired of having to turn to 3rd party builds like LineageOS to provide security updates that Google refused to provide after 2 years.
The only downside is battery replacement, but being a handy mustachian with tools and the iFixit guide I can replace it.
I changed over from an original Moto X to an iphone SE last year for similar reasons. No regrets.
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Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).
I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case?
Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market). Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.
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Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).
I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case?
Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market). Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.
Exactly. Wireless charging reduces the chances of a Man-In-The-Middle attack.
As long as the case is non-metallic, you should be fine with using a Qi charger. I had this feature on my Samsung Galaxy S5 (you had to buy a special back cover). No issues using a rubber case (e.g. Spigen).
Officially Apple provides 5 versions of iOS to every phone. That's about 5 years of updates. As a engineer who makes a living integrating hardware and software systems, I appreciate that the manufacturer performs thousands of hours of automated testing to ensure that the iOS version n will work on a 4 year old iPhone/iPad. I don't have to turn to a 3rd party solution like Android users have to resort to just because Google will not support a Nexus/Pixel device past 2 or 3 years. And Samsung is even worse, plus the carriers have to perform their own testing too. That time delay is not worth the increased risk of cybertheft.
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What if you are in an accident and suffer from face disfigurement? I realize at that point getting into your phone may not be a priority but still would be nice to have an alternative. Or someone dies, goes missing and the police want to see if there is evidence on your phone?
I doubt your face 'key' is only on your phone, but I could be wrong. Is there another way to open it?
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What if you are in an accident and suffer from face disfigurement? I realize at that point getting into your phone may not be a priority but still would be nice to have an alternative. Or someone dies, goes missing and the police want to see if there is evidence on your phone?
I doubt your face 'key' is only on your phone, but I could be wrong. Is there another way to open it?
If it's anything like "TouchID" it will also have a passcode. The passcode is required if TouchID fails, or when restarting your phone.
The only time touchID seems to have problems for me is with wet hands, that is one thing faceID can fix. Typing out the passcode isn't enough of a hassle for me to want to spend $1k to avoid it though.
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To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.
The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars. Consider that it was not uncommon to:
* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services. These could easily run $10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.
A cell phone isn't a replacement for a PC.
* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks. Easily over $10k more.
Your cell phone isn't a great digital camera or video recorder.
* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.
Your cell phone is so far removed from being a high-fi audio system that at this point I think you're trolling. :P
* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)
You still have to pay for access to most TV and cable channels. Cell phones haven't changed the options available to consumers, widespread illegal downloading (and the scramble to offer people alternatives that they want to pay for) has.
* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time. Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.
None of that is related to a cell phone.
* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.
There has never been a need to buy any of those things.
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To offer another (outside the box) perspective, the value present in a modern phone is absolutely a spectacular bargain, due to tremendous scale economies and technology innovations at the semiconductor level.
The modern cell phone contains technolology and processing power that as early as a few decades ago would have cost approaching hundreds of thousands of dollars. Consider that it was not uncommon to:
* Have to buy a PC, special modem, special contract to access the internet for email, chat, basic services. These could easily run $10k per year decades ago for much worse functionality.
A cell phone isn't a replacement for a PC.
* High fidelity digital cameras, video recorders, easily cost thousands each, plus the recording media like tapes, plus players like VHS decks. Easily over $10k more.
Your cell phone isn't a great digital camera or video recorder.
* Audio lovers easily spend $10k on a high fi audio systems, tapes/records, headphones to get their tunes on.
Your cell phone is so far removed from being a high-fi audio system that at this point I think you're trolling. :P
* TVs and cable contracts cost thousands (that can now be streamed while riding the bus)
You still have to pay for access to most TV and cable channels. Cell phones haven't changed the options available to consumers, widespread illegal downloading (and the scramble to offer people alternatives that they want to pay for) has.
* Shopping, banking, easily required multiple costly trips using gas, time. Now mobile check deposits, amazon purchases take seconds in real time with free delivery.
None of that is related to a cell phone.
* No need to buy a pedometer, exercise reminders, calendars, stopwatch, watch, etc.
There has never been a need to buy any of those things.
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
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Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:
Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.
In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?
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Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:
Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.
In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?
The only part I like is 0% APR, however that generally means the profit margin is built into the cost of the device.
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My next phone won't be $1000 because I simply won't pay that much for one (it helps that I'm not a big techie). When my iphone 5 dies, I'll get something reasonable.
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I don't do apple at all, but I love wireless charging.
It is weird to me that it took this long, though. My first smart phone in 2013 had it.
I don't pay extra for it, but if I'm choosing between phones, the wireless charging will sway me. I kept the charger on the kitchen counter and sorrynotsorry but it is super handy to just drop it there rather than find the end of the cord and plug it in.
Of course the optimal solution would be for my phone battery to last all day.
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Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:
Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.
In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?
The only part I like is 0% APR, however that generally means the profit margin is built into the cost of the device.
A few years ago, when my wife was upgrading from an iPhone 4 to an iPhone 6, Verizon had a deal where they would finance your phone for 0% APR. I ran a net present value calculation that compared buying the phone with 0% financing, which required a post paid plan and a contract, to buying the phone outright from Apple and switching to a prepaid plan (still through Verizon). Buying the phone outright was cheaper. I believe I used a 7.125% discount rate as that was our highest student loan at the time.
The Verizon sales person would not believe me when I told him it cost more to finance the phone, but I'm sure he had no idea how to calculate NPV either.
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The wireless charging thing IS overhyped, BUT ... glad to see phones moving away from needing to charge via micro USB (super fragile, wears out quickly) or proprietary standards (Lightning). All hail USB-C!
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I don't use my Galaxy S7's wireless charging feature. I have it in a 4500mAh battery case by Trianium, which is unable to wireless recharge. I'm a heavy user on unlimited VZW data; on average, I use about 80 GB/month. Although, I recharge the S7 every night, with the battery case, I've gone 2 days before I have to recharge. I use a fast recharger plug, which is also pretty convenient.
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Came to the forum to post angrily about a marketing text message I got from Verizon today, and it seems to fit right in with the topic of the thread here! Can't post the screenshot I took, so here's the text:
Get up to $300 off the new iPhone 8 on Verizon unlimited when you trade in select devices after bill credits over 24 mos; 0% APR. Limited time offer. New device payment agmt req'd.
In 3 sentences, I count probably 5 consumer sukka things deserving of face punches - how many can you guys get?
T-Mobile has that offer too. The trade-in phone has to be in very good working condition. Most of the trade-in models are high end Apple/Pixel/Samsung models, which would sell for over $300 on the used market. The other kicker is that I have to get off my grandfathered T-Mo family plan (4 lines for $100, 4 GB data per line) and move to the new T-Mo One plan (4 lines for $160, BUT data is UNLIMITED (ain't no such thing as they'll throttle)), or else no deal.
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I am posting now so that I can come back in early November and post photos of my new iPhone X when it arrives.
I have 0 cares. I have flexible spending and this purchase fits within the grand scheme of things.
I will provide reviews. Worse comes to worst it will not be worse than the current hand me down phone that I have that needs a battery replacement as it dies from sending a text even with 60% battery life.
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I believe sales in India of iPhones have been fairly low... Because the cost of a phone could instead pay the average person's grocery costs for a whole year!
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I long for the day for quantum computing in mobile phones.
In grad school, circa 2002, I performed research to create CAD simulation models of 0603 & 0402 surface mount resistors, inductors, capacitors. Effective Series Resistance was a huge deal. Some of these simulation models were sold to Motorola and were used in creation of the V60 & RAZR series.
We've seen antennas change from external dipoles to internal line elements that reside on the casing. That's a significant change and it's the end-result of a lot of research from academia and industry.
A $1000 is nothing when you include the time & cost of engineering in a product. Don't look at the cost of components only. Also, add the 5 years of iOS and security updates that Apple is providing.
Meanwhile, my wife's Nexus 6P, released in Sept 2015 does not get a guaranteed Android version update after Sept 2017 and no guaranteed security patches after Sept 2018. https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#nexus_devices
You get what you pay for. I work in IT security and am done with the malware-abundant apps in Google Play Store. I can't wait for my 8 Plus. Maybe I'll be proved wrong; won't be the first and the last time.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/what-you-can-buy-for-the-price-of-an-iphone-in-india-2017-6
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I believe sales in India of iPhones have been fairly low... Because the cost of a phone could instead pay the average person's grocery costs for a whole year!
That's official Apple sales. You'd be surprised to see tons of used iPhones via the gray market. I know buyers locally of iPhones/iPads who refurb and ship them overseas in bulk. You iPhone 4S will have another life in the land of reincarnation. I've sold an empty, yes EMPTY, iPad Air box to a refurbisher.
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This cellphone fad will die out sooner or later.
Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1977
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
I suspect the cellphone will be the reason for that.
I'm one who still carries a flip phone and has a desktop computer.
But this thread has me looking at the Moto 5 Plus and the iPhone SE.
I don't need much of a push to upgrade, but I've been in that position for about 3 years.
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I use about 80 GB of VZW data/month on my Galaxy S7. My first Android was the Galaxy Nexus in 2012, always had Androids since then- I haven't experienced any malware. Some good tips on how to avoid it: http://www.talkingnewmedia.com/2017/09/06/mobile-malware-theres-app/
Update all you want but if you're susceptible to clickbait or not too smart about downloading apps, stick to a feature phone.
Actually, my S 7 prompts me daily to update to Android Nougat, but hey I still like Marshmallow, works for me- so I'll stick with Marshmallow for now, lol.
Every time I get a phone, I always consider the iPhone, but always, never made sense to me to get one- Android always wins out. For alot of people, an iPhone just doesn't make sense- in India, in the United States, etc. I was in recently in the Philippines- sea of Android, hardly an iPhone in sight. Even in the US, Androids makes more sense for more people than iPhones.
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Every time I get a phone, I always consider the iPhone, but always, never made sense to me to get one- Android always wins out. For alot of people, an iPhone just doesn't make sense- in India, in the United States, etc. I was in recently in the Philippines- sea of Android, hardly an iPhone in sight. Even in the US, Androids makes more sense for more people than iPhones.
Please explain. I'm not trolling you, I'm genuinely interested. I'm actually getting my first non-work iPhone to test waters on the other side as I've been Android for a long time.
I am of Indian descent, have a lot of relatives in India, and always get requests for used/new iPhones to send to them. I agree that there's a plethora of Android handset options to satisfy various price points and family budgets.
Android, iPhone, it's all a tool to me to improve productivity. I don't game on them or get lost in the app store quagmires. Email, browsing, WhatsApp, photos, maps, streaming music is all I use them for.
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology. I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.
Let's say you're a professional photographer. You have real need of a camera. Do you go out and buy a cell phone? No. You buy a professional level camera. "AHA! You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff. I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis." To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'. Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it. The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.
I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones. It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology. I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.
Let's say you're a professional photographer. You have real need of a camera. Do you go out and buy a cell phone? No. You buy a professional level camera. "AHA! You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff. I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis." To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'. Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it. The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.
I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones. It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.
Same here. I hate the way that OS upgrades make an old phone so slow it becomes almost unusable forcing an upgrade.
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology. I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.
Let's say you're a professional photographer. You have real need of a camera. Do you go out and buy a cell phone? No. You buy a professional level camera. "AHA! You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff. I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis." To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'. Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it. The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.
I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones. It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.
My family always had a camera and camcorder for taking family pictures and videos during gatherings. Now we don't need one. Granted, you only needed one for the whole family, everyone didn't need their own.
People got along without all sorts of things just fine, it doesn't mean those things don't make our lives better. I talk to my grandma almost exclusively through Words with Friends. If it weren't for cell phones, she'd probably get an annual happy birthday phone call and that would be it. Then again, people got along without phones too, so maybe she just needs a letter every year or two. I send pictures to my and my girlfriends' family pretty regularly as well, it helps us keep in touch. Video chat is a big deal for a lot of people. Online banking is a major timesaver. I can comparison shop while I'm in a store. I have a constantly updated map of the world in my pocket that has helped me out numerous times. I used my iphone camera yesterday to list 4 things on eBay that 15 years ago I would've thrown away or sold at a garage sale for pennies. I do the same on craigslist or facebook occasionally as well.
So I guess you're right in that I don't "need" most of those things, but it helps me keep in touch with friends and family who I otherwise might not, helps me sell things online, and lets me capture some moments that otherwise might be forgotten. I don't really "need" a refrigerator either, but it sure makes life better.
Yeah the toss it out every 2 years deal is pretty terrible, but I figure over the next 10 years or so it will slow down significantly, the same way computers have now, and the same way electric cars will. Once the tech matures to a certain point the incremental upgrades stop being as worthwhile, and people figure it out. Even with some people who do upgrade constantly, many of their phones are being sold used to other people who continue using them. Phones are also relatively small, and I suspect are a pretty small part of the average person's environmental footprint.
edit:
And I just realized this, but the original iPhone only came out 10 years ago. Remember the mainstream smartphone market is still pretty young, expecting 10 year old phones right now is a bit of a reach. In 20 years I suspect there will be far more older phones around.
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology. I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.
Let's say you're a professional photographer. You have real need of a camera. Do you go out and buy a cell phone? No. You buy a professional level camera. "AHA! You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff. I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis." To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'. Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it. The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.
I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones. It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.
My family always had a camera and camcorder for taking family pictures and videos during gatherings. Now we don't need one. Granted, you only needed one for the whole family, everyone didn't need their own.
People got along without all sorts of things just fine, it doesn't mean those things don't make our lives better. I talk to my grandma almost exclusively through Words with Friends. If it weren't for cell phones, she'd probably get an annual happy birthday phone call and that would be it. Then again, people got along without phones too, so maybe she just needs a letter every year or two. I send pictures to my and my girlfriends' family pretty regularly as well, it helps us keep in touch. Video chat is a big deal for a lot of people. Online banking is a major timesaver. I can comparison shop while I'm in a store. I have a constantly updated map of the world in my pocket that has helped me out numerous times. I used my iphone camera yesterday to list 4 things on eBay that 15 years ago I would've thrown away or sold at a garage sale for pennies. I do the same on craigslist or facebook occasionally as well.
So I guess you're right in that I don't "need" most of those things, but it helps me keep in touch with friends and family who I otherwise might not, helps me sell things online, and lets me capture some moments that otherwise might be forgotten. I don't really "need" a refrigerator either, but it sure makes life better.
Yeah the toss it out every 2 years deal is pretty terrible, but I figure over the next 10 years or so it will slow down significantly, the same way computers have now, and the same way electric cars will. Once the tech matures to a certain point the incremental upgrades stop being as worthwhile, and people figure it out. Even with some people who do upgrade constantly, many of their phones are being sold used to other people who continue using them. Phones are also relatively small, and I suspect are a pretty small part of the average person's environmental footprint.
edit:
And I just realized this, but the original iPhone only came out 10 years ago. Remember the mainstream smartphone market is still pretty young, expecting 10 year old phones right now is a bit of a reach. In 20 years I suspect there will be far more older phones around.
I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while? I honestly can't think of one.
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stuff
Pretty sure he's comparing the modern cell phone with tech from the 90's, in which case it can replace a PC, is a high quality camera, is high quality audio, and allows you to access all sorts of media that would've been merely a dream at the time.
Of course, there are many cheaper options currently that do all of those things, but I think the overall point was "this shit is magical, whether it costs $200 or $1000 it would've been unheard of even 20 years ago, so it's not all that big of a deal. The cost of the equivalent of an iphone camera/video recorder, device to connect to the internet, and quality music player (not to mention the music to put on it) would have been well over $1000 in 1995."
Pretty much. Young people today mostly lack perspective in what it takes to deliver these magical little boxes. For example, it will cost roughly $13B to set up and compete with one fabrication facility for the next generation of high density memory chips. These suckers have 3D memory arrays reading voltages at electron levels (which actually suggests the memory density improvements may slow soon). Thats just one part.
But GuitarSiv knows better, so facepunch away. No one could possibly get $1000 worth of value from a phone (equal to 10 spa treatments, 20 nice dinners, 30 tanks of gas, auto insurance for 6 months, etc.).
I get that cellphones have a lot of impressive technology. I question if it's really as good a deal as we're being sold though.
Let's say you're a professional photographer. You have real need of a camera. Do you go out and buy a cell phone? No. You buy a professional level camera. "AHA! You say . . . yeah, cell phone cameras are obviously not competitive with good stuff. I don't need a professional camera, I just need to take pictures of random stuff on a regular basis." To this, I have to ask 'Why is that a need?'. Just because you can do stuff with a cellphone doesn't mean that it makes the world a better place when you do it. The vast majority of cell phone functions fall under this category . . . kinda neat, lived perfectly happily without it before, suddenly being able to do this is a need.
I am deeply disturbed at the use it and toss it culture of cell phones. It's pretty rare for someone to have a four year old phone, let along a ten year old one . . . and these phones are being tossed by the hundreds of millions every year.
Same here. I hate the way that OS upgrades make an old phone so slow it becomes almost unusable forcing an upgrade.
FYI - there's a way for Android users to reduce or disable the amount of animation in the UI, and each OS release seems to add increasingly more animation. Setting animation factors to 0.5x (or 0x, though this can cause problems with certain apps) greatly improves performance of older phones. I even change it on newer phones because Android feels sluggish to me otherwise. I posted about this last month:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/squeeze-more-life-from-your-android-phone/
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I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while? I honestly can't think of one.
I'm not sure it'll be so much that the average person keeps it for awhile, I suspect it'll be more like cars. There's always the group who gets a new one every 2-3 years and then trades it in. Then there is the group of people who buy those used ones and keep them for a few years. Then there is the further group who buys THOSE used ones and runs them into the ground.
I know a lot of older people who keep their phones around 4 years as of now, which is 2 years longer than required by most contracts. They basically only get rid of it when it stops working, and quality phones from 4 years ago are still very functional. Also consider how many companies have "trade in" deals to get the latest and greatest new phones, not to mention those kiosks in grocery stores that pay you for a used phone. They aren't throwing away what all of those people trade in, they're turning around and selling them used.
In reality you may be right, because phones aren't as expensive as cars and break much easier. I think a big part of it will be whether people continue shifting toward prepaid service rather than postpaid contracts that include a phone payment plan. There will always be people out there who will throw away anything they don't want, but the longer something holds value, the more likely people are to sell it or trade it in rather than trashing it.
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Some professionals (especially travel photographers) do use cell phone cameras almost exclusively, even as far back as 2013:
From an article highlighting some of the first published photos from the iPhone 8: Today, Mann shoots a lot of his work with an iPhone. He said he plays to the smartphone's strengths. For example, mobile devices make it easy to capture spontaneous moments because they're always with you and easy to pull out. (http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/18/technology/iphone-8-plus-photos/index.html)
I'll agree with others that state all the abilities of the modern smart phone aren't needed, but they sure are useful. Not refrigeration level useful, but very useful.
What bugs me is not that they get tossed - most get passed along. It's those who keep older smart phones in a drawer instead. I find that wasteful, because chances are, they'll never come out of that drawer until they're tossed during the next move.
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I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while? I honestly can't think of one.
Plowhorses to tractors...
Several initiatives in women's health and reproductive planning...
"Permanent" makeup tattoos...
Igloos to houses...
Sorry, I can't think of more at the moment. It's difficult, I grant you.
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(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21551745_1713800705345721_7602685603561463841_o.jpg?oh=ab93dda6957402cd12c651022b169b4f&oe=5A512EE6)
sorry, don't know why this is so huge
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I'm aware that the cell industry is still younger . . . but has there ever been an industry where the cell phone model (planned obsolescence and constant consumerism) has been replaced by long term value things that you keep for a long while? I honestly can't think of one.
Plowhorses to tractors...
Several initiatives in women's health and reproductive planning...
"Permanent" makeup tattoos...
Igloos to houses...
Sorry, I can't think of more at the moment. It's difficult, I grant you.
Plowhorses were planned obsolescence and constant consumerism? They had 20 - 30 year working lives . . . and you could make your own replacements as long as you had two mostly agreeable models. :P
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That's nothing, check this out:
https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program?afid=p238%7CsfiS4krH2-dc_mtid_1870765e38482_pcrid_221712751878_&cid=aos-us-kwgo-iphone--slid--product-
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years. If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence. I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones. I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.
No conspiracy theories necessary. Apple (for example) is well known for releasing IOS updates that purposely slow down older hardware immediately before they do new product launches.
Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.
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Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.
Yeah, the same way car companies don't expect your car to last longer than 60,000 miles...
That court case is about warranty claims, not planned obsolescence. I don't know of too many products out there that provide free service after the warranty period is expired.
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids. You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
I am on my third phone since 2003, and the second I gave away because I needed a 2 SIM one.
The first was the famous Nokia one that everybody had back then (and which was really durable, 9 years), the second and third cost 30€ each (dumb phones).
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Everything in context. I would say that a piece of consumer electronics with half its surface area being glass and typically carried on your person every single day surviving at least 3 years could be termed durable. If nothing else, it's eclipsed the obsolescence curve.
I also know someone that broke the screen of their new phone while it was in their pocket, the very week they bought it. It too, was an iPhone. I think the moral here is that whatever phone you have, if you exercise care, it should last a whole lot longer than the warranty period.
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Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).
Adding another communication protocol (wireless charging) => adding an additional attack vector.
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Apple officially (in court) announced that people should not expect their phones to work longer then the 1 year limited guarantee.
Yeah, the same way car companies don't expect your car to last longer than 60,000 miles...
That court case is about warranty claims, not planned obsolescence. I don't know of too many products out there that provide free service after the warranty period is expired.
Yep, I had a teacher that used to work for GM and told me that the company response to the question "what do i do with my car now that the warranty is up?" is "crush it, and get a new one. We don't guarantee it anymore". There's some planned obsolescence in most products, but the majority of it legal cover-your-ass stuff.
I'm on my third iPhone, I got a iPhone 4 in early 2010 and it died a year or so later when a tour boat i was on capsized, obviously not Apples fault. I then got a 4S when they first came out as a replacement for my water-logged one and it lasted for 5 years until i broke the screen and it wasn't worth getting fixed. I got an SE now and so far no issues, i'll try to get 5 years out of it as well before upgrading.
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids. You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?
Idk, there are plenty of "durable" shoes that last less than 5 years if you are actually hard on them. Durable is a relative term. If you want to wait to use a phone until they last 200 years like a cast iron pan, good luck. I'd consider the average bicycle to be durable, but don't know of many that have been passed down from people's grandparents.
With how small a phone is, I think it's probably better for the environment to replace a phone every 3 years than it is to replace a computer every 15, or a car every 30.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/what-you-can-buy-for-the-price-of-an-iphone-in-india-2017-6
This is a good start... but let's add some depth and focus on India specifically, given that's the locus of the Business Insider article focuses - especially for the "this price point is totally okay" crowd.
From the BI article, we are talking about spending enough money on a pocket communication device to do the following in India for just the price of an iPhone 6S (some of these numbers can actually translate cleanly into USD cost of living figures for some of us in the community, too):
-Pay for one year of groceries.
-Pay for four years of water and electric bills.
-Pay for four years of internet access.
-Pay for six months of car loans.
-Pay for one year of petrol.
-Pay for one month of rent.
But, let's add in an uncomfortable topic, such as debt bondage (http://www.endslaverynow.org/learn/slavery-today/bonded-labor). Of the 14 million plus slaves in India alone (http://www.newsweek.com/india-tops-global-slavery-index-over-14-million-people-enslaved-284950) despite the illegality of it, many of them have gone into indefinite debt bondage for loans as small as $14-214 USD (http://www.iabolish.org/index.php?option=com_content&id=184:a-report-on-debt-bondage-carpet-making-and-child-slavery-&Itemid=8). So, by including these numbers, the price of an iPhone 6s in India can also:
-Literally buy the freedom of anywhere between three to 46 people who would otherwise be trapped in debt bondage.
And that's for a sub-$700 handset these days. Just let those numbers percolate a bit in your head before you go and shell out $1000+ for a tiny new slab of electronics. You're staggeringly privileged just to have the technology available in the first place, so do you really need to spend that much money on something that basically does the same things as a model potentially 1/10th the price or less?
This is hedonic adaptation at its worst. Next time someone gets an itch around here to defend paying for or actually paying $1000+ for a pocket computer phone, consider gearing down to something cheaper and smaller and give the difference to a non-profit striving to deal with some of the various forms of human slavery throughout the world instead, such as:
Children of the Night (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6611)
Coalition to Abolish Slavery & Trafficking (CAST) (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=13154)
Free the Slaves (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=11051)
International Justice Mission (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5496)
ZOE International (https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=16766)
Our host has always made a point to mention that one's financial freedom is done so for the sake of the betterment of the world. What better way to make the world a better place than to not spend money on a luxury good and give that money to help others escape slavery instead? After all, it's just a thousand dollars...
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Try as I might, I couldn't avoid the news about the new iCrap being announced yesterday. I watched a video by the Verge about the new iPhones, and sure enough in the comments, were posts like "broke android fanbois can't afford the new iPhone...".
For some reason this stuff really triggered me.
The part where they put the iPhone x, AirPods, and Apple Watch on a single wireless charger. “Now you can charge all your Apple devices in one place”
I rolled my eyes so hard... yeah that’s happening
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I didn't read the article but I have guessed that the new Iphones that come in a year or two will be $1000+. I'm sure phone companies will find a way to market them with less sticker shock (charge X per month if you have a plan with them). Makes me glad that as I use my phone primarily for work I don't have to pay for it.
Sticker shock will be dealt with the same as cars. When I was coming out of college, most car loans were 36 months. 48 was crazy long. Now we have 72 months and I've seen some 84. Given that sucker consumers never keep their cars that long they just sign on to a perpetual payment, much like a lease. So they'll extend the phone payment outs to 36 months now which will place the payment between $27-$28/month right about what they are now and even a little less than the last iPhone which was $31.25 for the 24 month term. So they'll sell it to people as less expensive, because $27 is less than $31.25. And most will go right along since they can't actually do math.
Agreed. And I'm sure the companies will throw in a kicker where you can trade in your phone each year for only $____ to get the latest model.
Sadly, most phones seem to start to go nuts after two years. If you're into conspiracy theories might want to even say that they design them to fail, i.e. engineered obsolescence. I'm happy that my current phone has made it as long as it has and I will ride this one into the ground, but previous basic phones barely made it to the two year mark before they basically ceased to function, and I'm really careful with my phones. I think if they extend there contracts phones will fail before they end and people will be in that cycle like with cars.
Can confirm, I just spent $20 replacing some dumb component that killed my WiFi/gps reception. Yes i actually “need” gps to work sometimes. I also updated to ios11, which I know will be slower but I want those security updates.
As for monthly payments, i just unlocked my phone after two years on contract. The last subsidized phone I’ll have I guess, but I was paying $40 marginal line cost. Now I pay $10 marginal line cost, but no subsidy. So I noticed I could use the Apple upgrade plan and pay a similar total $40/mo for service and phone. But then I realized that was dumb and I should just reap the rewards of loweeed monthly cost. Nevertheless, I’m looking for a Black Friday sale on iPhone 7 since I want a nicer camera for baby photos. I disagree with those who say the cameras are crap— the best camera is the one you have in your hand, not in a bag somewhere or left at home in your closet.
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Public wireless charging will also be safer - no possibility of plugging in to something that could damage your phone or steal info (I don't know that this is common, but I've read warnings about charging in airports).
I know they changed the back to glass to enable wireless charging, but can it be charged with a case?
Apple does support much longer, and doesn't come with bloatware (although I did hear someone complain that the Stocks app is useless to her, because why would she have anything in the stock market). Even my 8 year old iMac is eligible for the latest Mac OS.
I’d like to avoid the glass back since I know it’s gonna break. There are also ways to damage your phone with wireless charging, although I think the fear of Rogue chargers is overblown (destructive ones)
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+1 dragoncar re "the best camera is the one you have in your hand"
I am about to get my first iPhone (and first phone that costs more than $90) for the camera, and for the easy compatibility with my daughter who is several states away at college.
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids. You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?
Idk, there are plenty of "durable" shoes that last less than 5 years if you are actually hard on them. Durable is a relative term. If you want to wait to use a phone until they last 200 years like a cast iron pan, good luck. I'd consider the average bicycle to be durable, but don't know of many that have been passed down from people's grandparents.
With how small a phone is, I think it's probably better for the environment to replace a phone every 3 years than it is to replace a computer every 15, or a car every 30.
Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
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Iphone 3G: purchased in July 2008
Iphone 4S: purchased in 2011 (don't remember the month, but I'm pretty sure it was May or later)
Iphone 6S: purchased in Dec. 2014 (and still using).
It's been pretty easy for me to average 3 years with these things. They are durable.
Durable things get used for decades and then passed down to your kids. You've 'needed' to purchase three phones in 9 years, do you really want to stick with the term 'durable'?
Idk, there are plenty of "durable" shoes that last less than 5 years if you are actually hard on them. Durable is a relative term. If you want to wait to use a phone until they last 200 years like a cast iron pan, good luck. I'd consider the average bicycle to be durable, but don't know of many that have been passed down from people's grandparents.
With how small a phone is, I think it's probably better for the environment to replace a phone every 3 years than it is to replace a computer every 15, or a car every 30.
Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
I routinely have desktop computers run for 5 years of daily use, but then again I'm selective about manufacturers and chipsets. Laptops seem to be more fragile; that could be because they're taken around and knocked about a lot more.
The same cannot be said of Smart phones; my 17-year-old daughter has yet to have one last six months without being smashed, drowned, lost, stolen, or otherwise trashed to the point where it can't be used. This occurs regardless of whether it's got a screen protector or a whizbang case. It's at the point where the company that insures the cell phones won't allow any more trade-ins.
Part of the problem may be due to the fact that new technology is often buggy. I'm a fan of buying products that have been on the market for a while so that someone else pays for the learning curve and all the fixes and frustration. My first Smart phone, a Samsung Galaxy Light, is something I've had for a little over three months. So far it hasn't had any of the problems my daughter's more recent and more advanced phones have had.
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I should have known better than to show up at the MMM forum and expect plaudits for swapping out smart phones every three years. You guys bring a tear to my eye. Will see if I can push this sucker deep into 2018.
My apple desktop (iMac) is still going strong nine years after I bought it. That company makes (relatively) durable products.
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My apple desktop (iMac) is still going strong nine years after I bought it. That company makes (relatively) durable products.
Durable maybe, but not always conducive to being long-lasting. Soldered-in RAM in laptops (and their current top of the line laptop maxes at 16GB, really?) and non-user-replaceable iPhone batteries are not the path to long-lasting electronics, regardless of whether or not they end up "breaking."
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Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
It certainly depends on the specifics of the computer, but I'd wager that a computer does have around 5x more waste products than a cell phone. Cell phones are mostly battery and glass/aluminum. Now if we're comparing a super high end phablet phone to a really compact chromebook, you're probably right and there's not a huge difference. High end phablet to high end desktop (or even laptop), I suspect the ratio is near 5. Don't forget about the monitor and cables to go along with that desktop.
And yes it's academic, my point was that the typical person probably creates considerably more waste with computers or cars than with cell phones, even though they're replaced more often.
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Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
It certainly depends on the specifics of the computer, but I'd wager that a computer does have around 5x more waste products than a cell phone. Cell phones are mostly battery and glass/aluminum. Now if we're comparing a super high end phablet phone to a really compact chromebook, you're probably right and there's not a huge difference. High end phablet to high end desktop (or even laptop), I suspect the ratio is near 5. Don't forget about the monitor and cables to go along with that desktop.
And yes it's academic, my point was that the typical person probably creates considerably more waste with computers or cars than with cell phones, even though they're replaced more often.
Meh. I've got several 10+ year old computer monitors that still work great and see daily use. I've got some 20+ year old keyboards/mice doing the same. Desktop computers are designed to be upgraded when they start showing age . . . even someone with no idea what they're doing can easily add RAM, swap out a processor, add another disk drive, change graphics card, etc. Even if you have to replace the whole board, CPU, and RAM . . . you still end up with a reusable case, a reusable PSU, reusable fans, reusable optical disks, reusable HDDs. Power cables are standardized, SATA cables are standardized, IDE cables are standardized, USB cables are standardized, VGA and DVI cables are standardized. None of them need to be tossed if a computer goes bad.
Phones are designed to be disposable in their entirety every couple years.
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Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
It certainly depends on the specifics of the computer, but I'd wager that a computer does have around 5x more waste products than a cell phone. Cell phones are mostly battery and glass/aluminum. Now if we're comparing a super high end phablet phone to a really compact chromebook, you're probably right and there's not a huge difference. High end phablet to high end desktop (or even laptop), I suspect the ratio is near 5. Don't forget about the monitor and cables to go along with that desktop.
And yes it's academic, my point was that the typical person probably creates considerably more waste with computers or cars than with cell phones, even though they're replaced more often.
Meh. I've got several 10+ year old computer monitors that still work great and see daily use. I've got some 20+ year old keyboards/mice doing the same. Desktop computers are designed to be upgraded when they start showing age . . . even someone with no idea what they're doing can easily add RAM, swap out a processor, add another disk drive, change graphics card, etc. Even if you have to replace the whole board, CPU, and RAM . . . you still end up with a reusable case, a reusable PSU, reusable fans, reusable optical disks, reusable HDDs. Power cables are standardized, SATA cables are standardized, IDE cables are standardized, USB cables are standardized, VGA and DVI cables are standardized. None of them need to be tossed if a computer goes bad.
Phones are designed to be disposable in their entirety every couple years.
This will soon be a thing of the past, sort of like working on your own car, replacing spark plugs or cleaning carborators yourself. People used to replace tubes or power supplies in their own TVs to. Not so much cracking open a TV to fix it yourself these days. I loved the simplicity of my old 60s era engine and have upgraded my share of desktops, but cars aint that easy anymore. PCs are heading the same direction.
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Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
It certainly depends on the specifics of the computer, but I'd wager that a computer does have around 5x more waste products than a cell phone. Cell phones are mostly battery and glass/aluminum. Now if we're comparing a super high end phablet phone to a really compact chromebook, you're probably right and there's not a huge difference. High end phablet to high end desktop (or even laptop), I suspect the ratio is near 5. Don't forget about the monitor and cables to go along with that desktop.
And yes it's academic, my point was that the typical person probably creates considerably more waste with computers or cars than with cell phones, even though they're replaced more often.
Meh. I've got several 10+ year old computer monitors that still work great and see daily use. I've got some 20+ year old keyboards/mice doing the same. Desktop computers are designed to be upgraded when they start showing age . . . even someone with no idea what they're doing can easily add RAM, swap out a processor, add another disk drive, change graphics card, etc. Even if you have to replace the whole board, CPU, and RAM . . . you still end up with a reusable case, a reusable PSU, reusable fans, reusable optical disks, reusable HDDs. Power cables are standardized, SATA cables are standardized, IDE cables are standardized, USB cables are standardized, VGA and DVI cables are standardized. None of them need to be tossed if a computer goes bad.
Phones are designed to be disposable in their entirety every couple years.
This will soon be a thing of the past, sort of like working on your own car, replacing spark plugs or cleaning carborators yourself. People used to replace tubes or power supplies in their own TVs to. Not so much cracking open a TV to fix it yourself these days. I loved the simplicity of my old 60s era engine and have upgraded my share of desktops, but cars aint that easy anymore. PCs are heading the same direction.
I worked on my car just today. Changed the oil to be exact, but I also changed some light bulbs last week which involved soldering a new resister into my flasher relay to ensure the turn signals wouldn't hyper flash from the LED bulbs, and repaired the air conditioning system last month. Earlier this year, I built my own PC using off the shelf parts. I haven't had to open up my TV yet, but I've read about several people on this board fixing their TVs by soldering in new capacitors.
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Actually I am not sure about this. Car maybe, but Computer?
The most material on your dektop is cheap aluminium and similar.
The thing that makes computers so environmentally damaging is the gold and even more the very scarce other stuff. You also have that in your phone, maybe less, but 5 times less? I doubt.
Of course that is purely academical because there are very few computers that survive 15 years ;)
Only the hand full anecotical Linux mail server that stop working after years and years and nobody can find it because the building it is supposed to be standing in was demolished 3 years ago.
It certainly depends on the specifics of the computer, but I'd wager that a computer does have around 5x more waste products than a cell phone. Cell phones are mostly battery and glass/aluminum. Now if we're comparing a super high end phablet phone to a really compact chromebook, you're probably right and there's not a huge difference. High end phablet to high end desktop (or even laptop), I suspect the ratio is near 5. Don't forget about the monitor and cables to go along with that desktop.
And yes it's academic, my point was that the typical person probably creates considerably more waste with computers or cars than with cell phones, even though they're replaced more often.
Meh. I've got several 10+ year old computer monitors that still work great and see daily use. I've got some 20+ year old keyboards/mice doing the same. Desktop computers are designed to be upgraded when they start showing age . . . even someone with no idea what they're doing can easily add RAM, swap out a processor, add another disk drive, change graphics card, etc. Even if you have to replace the whole board, CPU, and RAM . . . you still end up with a reusable case, a reusable PSU, reusable fans, reusable optical disks, reusable HDDs. Power cables are standardized, SATA cables are standardized, IDE cables are standardized, USB cables are standardized, VGA and DVI cables are standardized. None of them need to be tossed if a computer goes bad.
Phones are designed to be disposable in their entirety every couple years.
I've got a computer I built 7 years ago that I just upgraded the video card for, so I'm totally with you here.
My point was you have to also consider the environmental impact of the object, rather than only the amount of time you use it. Plenty of people keep computers for a long time, but then many others toss them every 3-4 years as well. I haven't met too many people with 15 year old computers around.
Obviously we should be trying to reduce this waste whenever possible, hopefully the kiosks for used/damaged phones I see popping up in grocery stores everywhere are helping.
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I was just forced to get rid of my Android due to updates and bloatware. It was still able to make and receive calls but wasn't able to update itself without constant crashes and deleting apps and photos. So now I've gone Apple since my company Virgin was offering that Inner Circle thing and I was able to get a good deal on EBay. I got an SE for $369 (please no facepunches) even I won't pay $1000 for one. I would have stayed Android if some of the apps I run were compatible across the devices more than likely. Since I already own Ipods transferring wasn't a big deal and I only lost one app so far. I am so used to saving space however going from 16 gig to 128 of RAM was a revelation to me. I won't load videos, podcasts or music on it that's what the Pod is for so I know that saves space too. And I can't imagine upgrading yearly when I do upgrade it will likely be to an older model Apple as well.
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I was just forced to get rid of my Android due to updates and bloatware. It was still able to make and receive calls but wasn't able to update itself without constant crashes and deleting apps and photos. So now I've gone Apple since my company Virgin was offering that Inner Circle thing and I was able to get a good deal on EBay. I got an SE for $369 (please no facepunches) even I won't pay $1000 for one. I would have stayed Android if some of the apps I run were compatible across the devices more than likely. Since I already own Ipods transferring wasn't a big deal and I only lost one app so far. I am so used to saving space however going from 16 gig to 128 of RAM was a revelation to me. I won't load videos, podcasts or music on it that's what the Pod is for so I know that saves space too. And I can't imagine upgrading yearly when I do upgrade it will likely be to an older model Apple as well.
Some of the Android phones have SD card slots (ones that you leave in) which effectively expands the phone's storage. For something like $25 I quadrupled the storage on my Moto 5g plus. But keep in mind that there's a big difference between RAM (which running applications require) and storage. RAM in phones generally cannot be easily expanded (I guess one may be able to solder in new ram, but probably tricky). The best thing you can do for any phone, Android or iPhone, is to be very picky about the apps you install, especially those that want/need to run in the background. The amount of crapware people install on their phones (and desktops) is appalling.
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I was just forced to get rid of my Android due to updates and bloatware. It was still able to make and receive calls but wasn't able to update itself without constant crashes and deleting apps and photos. So now I've gone Apple since my company Virgin was offering that Inner Circle thing and I was able to get a good deal on EBay. I got an SE for $369 (please no facepunches) even I won't pay $1000 for one. I would have stayed Android if some of the apps I run were compatible across the devices more than likely. Since I already own Ipods transferring wasn't a big deal and I only lost one app so far. I am so used to saving space however going from 16 gig to 128 of RAM was a revelation to me. I won't load videos, podcasts or music on it that's what the Pod is for so I know that saves space too. And I can't imagine upgrading yearly when I do upgrade it will likely be to an older model Apple as well.
Some of the Android phones have SD card slots (ones that you leave in) which effectively expands the phone's storage. For something like $25 I quadrupled the storage on my Moto 5g plus. But keep in mind that there's a big difference between RAM (which running applications require) and storage. RAM in phones generally cannot be easily expanded (I guess one may be able to solder in new ram, but probably tricky). The best thing you can do for any phone, Android or iPhone, is to be very picky about the apps you install, especially those that want/need to run in the background. The amount of crapware people install on their phones (and desktops) is appalling.
Some Android phones are very picky about what can be installed on an SD card vs the phone's internal flash. I ran into that with my old Galaxy S, which had a hilariously low amount of onboard storage (I think it was 512MB, total, including space needed for the OS). By 2015, I had a trimmed down up-to-date custom Android install, but on top of the super basic Google apps, I could literally have maybe one or two other apps installed. The SD card was really only useful for storing media. Then I dumped it when T-mobile shut down the 3G bands the phone supported. That was the phone I've most held onto literally as long as I could have, even when it was borderline worthless the last few months.
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I had an SD card in the old one bringing it up to a whole 16 from the 8 it came with I moved apps constantly but it never seemed to do any good. I Googled everything to keep freeing up space and I was planning on keeping that phone for at least 2 or 3 years like I did my other ones. I agree about the RAM though. I have learned to be more selective about the apps I use in the beginning I was downloading everything that looked good.