Author Topic: Upsizing  (Read 3714 times)

apricity22

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Upsizing
« on: July 10, 2017, 07:03:13 PM »
https://www.zillow.com/blog/upsizing-your-home-217193/

This article isn't as bad as I first feared as there is some advice about not buying things to just fill space but maybe a better article would have been why not to buy more house than you need in the first place.

MayDay

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 07:30:49 PM »
Interesting.

Average Millennial home size is 1800 sq ft. That is actually a pretty reasonable size for a family.

I'm the very oldest Millennial, and we are under contract for a 1800 sq ft house plus about 600 sq ft basement family room (not sure if I should count basement space or not).

It's a big house, sure, but not ridiculous for a family of four. We almost went with a 1100 sq ft house but that felt too small.

I didn't think it makes sense to rent until you are ready to buy whatever size house you'll stay in for a while. Rather than buying a starter house and moving.

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apricity22

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 09:43:56 PM »
Agreed 1800 sf is reasonable. I suppose since I read so many blog posts about minimalism and downsizing I found an article about upsizing humorous particularly since it seemed targeted to someone who just bought a big house and now needs advice on how to properly fill space.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 08:01:06 AM »
I actually liked the article! The whole point was not just buying a bunch of furniture to fill space, particularly cheap discount furniture (read- IKEA crap).

Get a couch so people can sit down and be patient with any furniture purchases. Don't just buy shit to fill space. We've left our two empty bedrooms sit as empty bedrooms for now: what's the point in staging an empty room?

We did get some cheap IKEA stuff, but only stuff that was needed, not to fill the space. A little kitchen island (amazing!) and a sofa table (less amazing, but still very functional. It's where people can charge their phones, some books are displayed, and can put drinks easily instead of leaning forward to the coffee table).

The only other suggestion I would make is a proper dining room table, something that's extendable. We got one that can fit 10 people and it's way too small. If I had to go back, I'd get one like my in-laws, that can fit 16-18. That way everyone can sit at one table for large gatherings.




On the side discussion of "reasonable":
Multi-variable optimization. I wouldn't buy a 2 bd/1 ba "starter" home like my parents did, but I also didn't knock my Mom at the age of 18. So I had more budget room. :)

1800 sq ft is quite large, IMO, but I grew up in a household that was all of 1400 sq ft for 6 people and currently am in about the same spot. It's definitely not at the "ridiculous" point, though. You can definitely make use of that space. For me, it'd be unreasonable, because that extra 400 sq ft would entail about $100,000 in price. Eeep. Not reasonable in this area, given my budget.

What I don't see as reasonable, that I have seen lately, among my crowd (mid-20s to mid-30s first time homebuyers):
1. People paying premiums for flipped/remodeled homes. My friends recently bought a flipped home, when they could've bought something right down the street, on a bigger lot, with about 600 sq ft more space, for 15% less. Why?
2. People paying massive amounts of money for absolutely huge homes in premium areas and leaning on their parents to help with payments. I'm talking $650,000 homes, when their actual budget is around, say, $300,000. I understand your parents might want to help, but the $300k home is going to get you a standard 3bed/2ba split-level in a really nice neighborhood. You will not be living in squalor.
3. People expecting young children using their house dollars to buy premium finishes/slightly more space rather than good schools. I seriously don't get this at all. If your budget is $300k in my area, you can get a reasonable size home in one of the best school districts in the entire nation. You're paying the money anyways, you're not saving time on your commute, you're not in a walkable neighborhood, and you're sending your kids to a school where the mean ACT is like 6 points lower because you want 2000sq ft HGTV instead of 1500 sqft slightly less nice.

The above items, I can't wrap my head around. I at least get the people who want to live in trendy neighborhoods and pay a premium for it. I wouldn't do it, but I get it. The above, I just don't get it.

prognastat

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 08:18:12 AM »
We have a 1400 sq ft home 3 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms which is really too large as DINKs. It is more than enough for a family of 4-5. Growing up we had a similar sized house and lived there with up to 6 people which was a little tight, but still manageable.

Cassie

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 02:39:19 PM »
BGuy: when we have a bunch of people for dinner I put up card tables at the end of the table and cover all the tables with the same color table cloths. I then use card table chairs.  I only have a bunch of people a few times a year so no need to have a DR table that sits 16 people. This has been an easy and cheap solution.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 02:52:27 PM »
Does the 1400 sq ft include the garage?  Our first home was 1500sqft, but that included the 2-car garage, so it was really more like 1100 sq ft.  Our family grew to 6 before it started feeling a bit cramped.

acroy

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 03:16:50 PM »
It's all relative I guess
http://demographia.com/db-intlhouse.htm
Among developed nations, no surprise, US & CAN are at or near the top of the list. I had no idea houses were so big in Australia & NZ. My Swedish co-workers live in smaller places but hey also have teeny (or non-existant) families and they are all very skinny, so small spaces go further :)

2k sq feet seems excessive for 2 people. With 9 (what we have) it's right - still actually luxurious, we have a 400sq ft 11ft tall main living area with nothing but nice couches and a big-ass home theater system for pizza/movie night (TONIGHT!!)

If/when DW are on our own, we'd do a teeny house, well maybe compact house, 300-400 sq ft max. Less to care for, and we'd rather be outside anyway, than spending all our time in a dam' wood box!
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A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 03:31:19 PM »
BGuy: when we have a bunch of people for dinner I put up card tables at the end of the table and cover all the tables with the same color table cloths. I then use card table chairs.  I only have a bunch of people a few times a year so no need to have a DR table that sits 16 people. This has been an easy and cheap solution.

Totally workable, we do something similar. We got a pair of six foot long folding tables when they were on sale ($80 for the pair?) and use them whenever we want to extend the table.

Bonus: can also be used outside! Especially useful when grilling.


I'd prefer to have a bigger table personally, but that's my champagne-taste complainy-pants talking :(

dycker1978

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 04:09:15 PM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this. 

prognastat

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 04:35:37 PM »
We have a 1400 sq ft home 3 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms which is really too large as DINKs. It is more than enough for a family of 4-5. Growing up we had a similar sized house and lived there with up to 6 people which was a little tight, but still manageable.

If you are responding to my message about growing up with 6 family emmbers in a house probably around 1400 sq ft, there wasn't a garage, you just parked along the road out front.

Amanda

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 06:51:30 PM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.

Seconded. Even MMM standards for space seem to be rather high! We are also a family of four with a dog in under 1100 sq feet and comfy.

I would totally count MayDay's huge basement family room in the total and that makes 2400 sq ft - which is quite generous for just four people.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 07:24:14 AM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.
Admitted wine tastes here!. My Wife and I looked at some houses around this size (above ground) and ruled them out. Most had floorplans that were inconvenient for our dining room table plans. At least around here, most 1000 sq ft homes aren't well designed to accommodate a formal dining space.

We host 10+ people at least once a month, so we splurged.

We could make use of more sq ft, at least at some point. We'd like to have 4 kids. They'd have to share bedrooms that are 90 sq ft and 110 sq ft, which would be tight.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 07:25:52 AM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.
Admitted wine tastes here!. My Wife and I looked at some houses around this size (above ground) and ruled them out. Most had floorplans that were inconvenient for our dining room table plans. At least around here, most 1000 sq ft homes aren't well designed to accommodate a formal dining space.

We host 10+ people at least once a month, so we splurged.

We could make use of more sq ft, at least at some point. We'd like to have 4 kids. They'd have to share bedrooms that are 90 sq ft and 110 sq ft, which would be tight.
Bunk beds broaden bedrooms :)  We actually had 3 kids in a 10x11 bedroom for a while when they were little.  And our 4 boys currently share a 12x14 bedroom quite comfortably.

apricity22

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 12:04:46 PM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.

Wait, where do you put all of the useless crap that you buy and don't use? Do you have a storage unit for that need?

prognastat

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 12:10:28 PM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.
Admitted wine tastes here!. My Wife and I looked at some houses around this size (above ground) and ruled them out. Most had floorplans that were inconvenient for our dining room table plans. At least around here, most 1000 sq ft homes aren't well designed to accommodate a formal dining space.

We host 10+ people at least once a month, so we splurged.

We could make use of more sq ft, at least at some point. We'd like to have 4 kids. They'd have to share bedrooms that are 90 sq ft and 110 sq ft, which would be tight.
Bunk beds broaden bedrooms :)  We actually had 3 kids in a 10x11 bedroom for a while when they were little.  And our 4 boys currently share a 12x14 bedroom quite comfortably.

I shared a bunk bed probably until I was around 11.

A Definite Beta Guy

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 12:47:47 PM »
Beta household will definitely have some bunk beds, that's for sure, lol. At least they look cute in those furniture stores.

My in-laws have these massive bedrooms that are the size of my entire first floor. 2 kids can share a room and have to shout to hear each other on the other side of the room. Seems crazy to me. I could use the space if it cost exactly $0.

Lanthiriel

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 03:36:06 PM »
I used to be very proud of my efficient 1100 sq ft ranch for my husband and I and our two dogs. Then I had to move 2500 miles away and fell head over heels in love with a 1650 sq ft barn conversion. In my defense, it was the same price as all of the 1100 sq ft ranches in the area (it has features that would be tough to navigate with small kids) and has a wood stove to keep heating costs down. But yeah... it's honestly way too much space for us.

dycker1978

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 03:40:23 PM »
Wow size standards are huge, even in the mustachian world.  I grew up with a family of 5 and a dog in s hose of 836 sq ft.  When my and my partner bought we bought a huge place of 1047 sq feet.  We have two kids and a dog.  I am really not sure why a family would need more space then this.

Wait, where do you put all of the useless crap that you buy and don't use? Do you have a storage unit for that need?

Well I have a huge long driveway for my multiple cars, so I can put all the junk in the garage, and park on the driveway.   :)

talltexan

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 08:55:39 AM »
I actually liked the article! The whole point was not just buying a bunch of furniture to fill space, particularly cheap discount furniture (read- IKEA crap).

Get a couch so people can sit down and be patient with any furniture purchases. Don't just buy shit to fill space. We've left our two empty bedrooms sit as empty bedrooms for now: what's the point in staging an empty room?

We did get some cheap IKEA stuff, but only stuff that was needed, not to fill the space. A little kitchen island (amazing!) and a sofa table (less amazing, but still very functional. It's where people can charge their phones, some books are displayed, and can put drinks easily instead of leaning forward to the coffee table).

The only other suggestion I would make is a proper dining room table, something that's extendable. We got one that can fit 10 people and it's way too small. If I had to go back, I'd get one like my in-laws, that can fit 16-18. That way everyone can sit at one table for large gatherings.




On the side discussion of "reasonable":
Multi-variable optimization. I wouldn't buy a 2 bd/1 ba "starter" home like my parents did, but I also didn't knock my Mom at the age of 18. So I had more budget room. :)

1800 sq ft is quite large, IMO, but I grew up in a household that was all of 1400 sq ft for 6 people and currently am in about the same spot. It's definitely not at the "ridiculous" point, though. You can definitely make use of that space. For me, it'd be unreasonable, because that extra 400 sq ft would entail about $100,000 in price. Eeep. Not reasonable in this area, given my budget.

What I don't see as reasonable, that I have seen lately, among my crowd (mid-20s to mid-30s first time homebuyers):
1. People paying premiums for flipped/remodeled homes. My friends recently bought a flipped home, when they could've bought something right down the street, on a bigger lot, with about 600 sq ft more space, for 15% less. Why?
2. People paying massive amounts of money for absolutely huge homes in premium areas and leaning on their parents to help with payments. I'm talking $650,000 homes, when their actual budget is around, say, $300,000. I understand your parents might want to help, but the $300k home is going to get you a standard 3bed/2ba split-level in a really nice neighborhood. You will not be living in squalor.
3. People expecting young children using their house dollars to buy premium finishes/slightly more space rather than good schools. I seriously don't get this at all. If your budget is $300k in my area, you can get a reasonable size home in one of the best school districts in the entire nation. You're paying the money anyways, you're not saving time on your commute, you're not in a walkable neighborhood, and you're sending your kids to a school where the mean ACT is like 6 points lower because you want 2000sq ft HGTV instead of 1500 sqft slightly less nice.

The above items, I can't wrap my head around. I at least get the people who want to live in trendy neighborhoods and pay a premium for it. I wouldn't do it, but I get it. The above, I just don't get it.

When we bought our last house (and we had already owned one), my mom practically threw $20,000 at us, wouldn't take "no" for an answer. I didn't manage it especially well, actually, didn't really pay it back or put it toward additional equity on our current house. Oh, god, what am I even doing here?

gardeningandgreen

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 11:59:00 AM »
I think space requirements are a bit relative to the area you live in. If you live in a nice warm area that you can be outside most of the time a smaller space makes sense. If you live in an area like I do that has snow for 6-8 months of the year and have kids it can get hard to send them outside every day. On that note we have an 1100 sf 3 bedroom 1 bathroom home and figure we can easily have 2 kids possibly 3 kids here so YMMV.

Kaydedid

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2017, 02:57:04 PM »
I think space requirements are a bit relative to the area you live in. If you live in a nice warm area that you can be outside most of the time a smaller space makes sense. If you live in an area like I do that has snow for 6-8 months of the year and have kids it can get hard to send them outside every day. On that note we have an 1100 sf 3 bedroom 1 bathroom home and figure we can easily have 2 kids possibly 3 kids here so YMMV.
We live in a place with snow on the ground 6+ months per year. (3bed 1ba, 3 people, 1300sqft).  Everyone (even the people in mansions) get cabin fever, it's inevitable.  We go to the library or friend's/family's house or outside for a bit and it's all good.  I'd have no problem with 3-4 kids if there was an extra half bath.

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dycker1978

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Re: Upsizing
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 03:22:21 PM »
I think space requirements are a bit relative to the area you live in. If you live in a nice warm area that you can be outside most of the time a smaller space makes sense. If you live in an area like I do that has snow for 6-8 months of the year and have kids it can get hard to send them outside every day. On that note we have an 1100 sf 3 bedroom 1 bathroom home and figure we can easily have 2 kids possibly 3 kids here so YMMV.
I live is Saskatchewan, we have snow and cold for at least 6 months a year. 4 of us in a 3 br 1 bath 1047.  I don't feel cramped