Author Topic: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..  (Read 7324 times)

freedomfightergal

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Some of the crazy financial things my Ex did

I'd left the finances to my Husband while I was pregnant, working and then in the crazy early days of baby care, once I felt able I decided to sit down and pay the bills etc.  Bear in mind he had an Economics degree, I thought he was smart..

1. Our $20k credit card was maxed out, we had $50k in savings.  The cc interest was crazy, in the thousands at a penalty rate for late payments.  So I transferred enough to pay it full.  He was really angry and said that you NEVER pay off a credit card in full because then you max it out again and have to pay it TWICE!  Me but... how about not use it anymore..  him, "do you have an Economics degree?"

2. We'd bought a $1m house with 10% down.  I discovered he'd set us up with an INTEREST ONLY loan on $900k!! crazy right!   I wanted to refinance into a 15 year and he fought me over it for years. 

Luckily he did earn a lot of money, but heck we wasted a fortune.   Now divorced, he continues to make a fortune, I have to be smart because being a Stay at Home mom for years killed my career and earning power, (note this girls!).   But at least I'm living within my means now.  I'm sure at retirement he will have nothing to show for his career, I'll be okay.

So when you're going to get married, try to make sure you're on the same page regarding finances and have a plan.




RetiredAt63

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 06:43:23 PM »
This  ^^^ is a good argument for not getting married straight out of school. If I had seen how Ex handled money once he was working, I would have been a lot more careful going into the marriage, or might not have married him at all.

It is amazing how great my finances are now, even with all the costs of the divorce.  I am sure he is still living paycheque (well pension cheque) to cheque now.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2018, 08:08:05 PM »
He's right, you know.

SwordGuy

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 11:04:52 PM »
Rule #1:   Do not marry children.  Particularly "over-aged" children.   

Rule #2:   Follow the OP's advice about having similar money handling values.

marty998

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 12:31:47 AM »
Some of the crazy financial things my Ex did

I'd left the finances to my Husband while I was pregnant, working and then in the crazy early days of baby care, once I felt able I decided to sit down and pay the bills etc.  Bear in mind he had an Economics degree, I thought he was smart..

1. Our $20k credit card was maxed out, we had $50k in savings.  The cc interest was crazy, in the thousands at a penalty rate for late payments.  So I transferred enough to pay it full.  He was really angry and said that you NEVER pay off a credit card in full because then you max it out again and have to pay it TWICE!  Me but... how about not use it anymore..  him, "do you have an Economics degree?"

2. We'd bought a $1m house with 10% down.  I discovered he'd set us up with an INTEREST ONLY loan on $900k!! crazy right!   I wanted to refinance into a 15 year and he fought me over it for years. 

Luckily he did earn a lot of money, but heck we wasted a fortune.   Now divorced, he continues to make a fortune, I have to be smart because being a Stay at Home mom for years killed my career and earning power, (note this girls!).   But at least I'm living within my means now.  I'm sure at retirement he will have nothing to show for his career, I'll be okay.

So when you're going to get married, try to make sure you're on the same page regarding finances and have a plan.


Wow - would really like to see a case study for this guy :D

I think I'd break my knuckles with all the face punching...

Cwadda

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 12:36:08 AM »
Thank you for this!

aasdfadsf

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 12:42:29 AM »
1. Our $20k credit card was maxed out, we had $50k in savings.  The cc interest was crazy, in the thousands at a penalty rate for late payments.  So I transferred enough to pay it full.  He was really angry and said that you NEVER pay off a credit card in full because then you max it out again and have to pay it TWICE! 

It's really sad how an economics degree can't make someone understand very basic math.

TartanTallulah

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 01:36:08 AM »
I agree, and I would add, look at the parents. I know there are some magnificent exceptions on this board, but people are likely to repeat their parents' financial behaviour as well as other behaviours.

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

faithless

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 02:52:23 AM »

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

What?! How does one become incapable of functioning in the workplace? I know there are some people who have never held a job and are essentially unemployable, but this suggests he was ok then became unemployable. What were the warning signals?

Dabnasty

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 12:05:21 PM »
Rule #1:   Do not marry children.  Particularly "over-aged" children.   

Rule #2:   Follow the OP's advice about having similar money handling values.

So marrying "under-aged" children is preferable?

Boofinator

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 12:12:20 PM »
He's right, you know.

Certainly not for #1.

#2 is debatable, depending on interest rates, investment alternatives, investment timeline, etc.

SwordGuy

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 12:41:43 PM »
Rule #1:   Do not marry children.  Particularly "over-aged" children.   

Rule #2:   Follow the OP's advice about having similar money handling values.

So marrying "under-aged" children is preferable?

At least they might grow up...



diapasoun

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 01:04:05 PM »
I'm sorry you went through that, freedomfightergal, and I'm glad that you're out, on your own, and working for yourself and your own freedom.

Hunny156

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 11:31:31 AM »

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

What?! How does one become incapable of functioning in the workplace? I know there are some people who have never held a job and are essentially unemployable, but this suggests he was ok then became unemployable. What were the warning signals?

I too would love to know what warning signs you saw.  I dated my husband all through college, and watched his Dad get and lose jobs in very short order, for nearly a decade.  The last time around, when the UI checks ran out, he was close to 62, so he waited it out and just collected SSA instead.  Nearly a decade later, he's a widower collecting his wife's slightly larger SSA check, but it's barely enough to make ends meet.  He's going to get a part time job, he says.  I don't buy it.  I see a combination of poor attitude/personality & laziness, and I suspect that he thinks his two sons will bail him out, even though we have all made it clear that will not be the case.

On my side of the family, my college educated sibling maintained good jobs for nearly two decades.  The past decade or so has been a mixture of unemployment, temp work, and the occasional mediocre-paid permanent position, with a layoff/firing looming around the one year mark.  The average income for the past 4 years, from all sources, is like $20K.  I do see some trends, like focusing on "careers" that most would consider side gigs, an obsession with Blackberry/Smart Phones for personal use that was obvious in the work place, taking a stand against supervisors over very minor things, like adherence to dress codes, and as my husband puts it, just being lazy.

MgoSam

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 11:35:04 AM »
Yup! A friend of mine married someone that likes to live a more lavish lifestyle. I don't know how happy he is, I don't see either of them very much as they are off hanging out more with married people but he's someone that wanted to retire at 40 and I don't see if happening unless he's makes significantly more than he previously had.

freedomfightergal

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2018, 11:57:19 AM »
Someone asked what the warning signs were.  In retrospect they would be things like, an expensive flashy sports car, fancy watches, clothes, expensive restaurants etc.  That in itself is not bad, he had a high income that you would think would pay for it, but he lived in a tiny old 1 bedroom with no furniture apart from a bed and tv.  Again not a big deal in your 20's.  And when you're dating it's not really appropriate to say, hey ow much is in your 401k, savings etc.   I guess when you start talking about living together it's good to get details and see what they value.  I had bought a home, was paying it off, saving in the stock market, had an ok car and was careful with my money, I also had a significant salary but our values and spending were different.  So now I would read those superficial things as bad now, I dig guys in boring cars!  Likewise if I was a young man I'd think probably best to run if you're dating a girl that spends all her money on fancy handbags and has crazy credit card debt, (like some girls I knew back then). 

Unfortunately I was very trusting and naive.  Down the line I found his financial decisions alarming and at complete odds with my own.  It led to a lot of arguments. 

Loro-rojo

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2018, 07:38:16 PM »
I don't mean to sound mean... But it seems like part of the problem was that you were not really engaged in the household finances.  How does a husband rack up $20k in credit card debt in several months without a spouse knowing?  Also, how is it that you learned that he took out an interest only loan only AFTER he purchased the house? 

One important takeaway from all this is that both spouses should be involved in the finances.  If a spouse allows the other to fully control the finances, then you are just setting yourself up for these type of situations.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2018, 07:20:32 AM »

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

What?! How does one become incapable of functioning in the workplace? I know there are some people who have never held a job and are essentially unemployable, but this suggests he was ok then became unemployable. What were the warning signals?

A person can become incapable of functioning at a job for several reasons.

First, they may develop a serious illness (physical or mental) that precludes working. Agoraphobia, OCD, and other mental health problems make working outside the home increasingly difficult.

Second, they may have an addiction that worsens over time to the point where a previously "functional alcoholic" no longer functions. The drug of choice doesn't have to be alcohol; it can just as easily be meth or opioids.

Third, they get badly burned out (possibly by the job) and can no longer put in the long hours or extra work necessary. This happens in start-ups and software companies a lot.

Fourth, they develop commitments outside work that preclude work. They might be caregivers for someone else (not necessarily family) or they may be enabling someone else.

Fifth, they may develop a sense of hopelessness and loss of control, especially if other aspects of their lives such as personal debt are out of control and they feel like they have no choice and no personal agency.

Sixth, they may do what lowlifes call "making a mistake", typically in the form of embezzlement, violent crime, or something else that makes them unemployable in the industry for which they've trained. A professional driver with a DWI, a banker who dips into the till, or a plumber who cleans out more than the drains will become unemployable.

Seventh, they may be tantrum artists who overreact to minor or imaginary slights by blowing up and doing things that get them laid off or fired. This can be a sign of early dementia.

Finally, they may have overstated their credentials to begin with.

dude

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2018, 07:26:55 AM »
  Likewise if I was a young man I'd think probably best to run if you're dating a girl that spends all her money on fancy handbags and has crazy credit card debt, (like some girls I knew back then). 

Hmmmmmm, this was my wife (then girlfriend) back in the day. She racked up $25k in credit card debt buying shoes, handbags, furniture, lots of eating out and partying. I told her I would not marry her with such debt/spending habits (to which, quite ignorantly, she would say, "What about your student loan debt?" as if the two were comparable). Her father eventually bailed her out, in tears, and it jarred her quite a bit. She's since not carried a credit card debt, and I did subsequently marry her. As her income rose, I prevailed upon her to max out her 401k contributions, save her annual bonuses (minus a modest gift for herself with a fraction of her bonus), and curb unnecessary expenses, and she's done quite well. I still think she spends too frivolously, but really, it's not that bad. Our net worth skyrocketed once I got her on board (she's still primarily a passive participant, as I've handled all major financial decisionmaking).

All of which to say, people can be enlightened and change their financial ways*, so I wouldn't necessarily rule someone out reflexively on account of their spending habits in their 20's. The maturation process can take time. And frankly, good partners are very hard to find in this world, so don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good as they say.

*though admittedly, some are hopeless and you should run away from them as fast as you can!

Kronsey

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 09:46:39 AM »
This is all really good advice, and I hope any young(ish) person reading who isn't married is taking notes.

Finances are the #1 cause of divorce for a reason.

In my own marriage, money has been the cause of probably 95% of our frustrations and fighting. It took a very serious health crisis for us to finally get on the same page.

We were both equally to blame for having poor work ethics, lack of money know-how, and being under prepared for all aspects of a healthy financial relationship. Even so, there were warning signs we both should have taken note of.

My wife had never had a real job before marriage. My in-laws showed some red flags with how they handled money.

After we got home from our honeymoon, my in-laws came over and handed us a stack of bills/statements. After adding it all up, she had over $50K in student loan debt. Before we got married, I was told it was a couple thousand dollars... Part of that $50K was for an overseas trip, tanning & hair salons, eating out, etc. I was shocked to say the least.

We have been really blessed to be able to work through some of those issues, but most couples are not as fortunate.

My number one piece of advice is to figure out how your potential spouse views SPENDING money. If frugality is viewed as deprivation, you will be fighting a constant uphill battle. A huge majority of the population views any excess money as NEEDING to be spent. Savings/investing is a completely foreign concept in America. Honestly that was an ok strategy for previous generations who had a pension and SS for retirement, but pensions are but a distant memory at this point in the game.

And as others have pointed out, sometimes people change later in life without many warning signs beforehand. I have a brother who was earning $120K/year for quite a few years in his late 20's and early 30's while having decent savings habits. He was fired and then won a large lawsuit for wrongful termination. He blew through all that money in a few years and has struggled to get back to a "normal" routine/work life. Most would probably say he is having a mid-life crisis. Regardless of the why, his wife would have never expected to be where they are today just a few short years ago.

Chris22

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2018, 10:00:30 AM »
Someone asked what the warning signs were.  In retrospect they would be things like, an expensive flashy sports car, fancy watches, clothes, expensive restaurants etc.  That in itself is not bad, he had a high income that you would think would pay for it, but he lived in a tiny old 1 bedroom with no furniture apart from a bed and tv.  Again not a big deal in your 20's.

I've never been into fancy clothes or expensive restaurants outside of special occasions, and my watch is a 12y/o $200 Citizen, but I too had a (relatively) nice used sports car and a crappy 1br apartment when my wife and I got married.  I liked cars, and I lived alone knowing we would be moving in together somewhere nicer, no need to spend a lot of money on housing.  FWIW, that sports car is still worth ~2/3rds what I paid for it 12 years ago and I still have it. 

Uturn

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2018, 10:35:48 AM »
1. Our $20k credit card was maxed out, we had $50k in savings.  The cc interest was crazy, in the thousands at a penalty rate for late payments.  So I transferred enough to pay it full.  He was really angry and said that you NEVER pay off a credit card in full because then you max it out again and have to pay it TWICE! 

It's really sad how an economics degree can't make someone understand very basic math.

That is because over spending is very often a self control problem, not a math problem. 

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2018, 10:44:08 AM »
Someone asked what the warning signs were.  In retrospect they would be things like, an expensive flashy sports car, fancy watches, clothes, expensive restaurants etc.  That in itself is not bad, he had a high income that you would think would pay for it, but he lived in a tiny old 1 bedroom with no furniture apart from a bed and tv.  Again not a big deal in your 20's.

I've never been into fancy clothes or expensive restaurants outside of special occasions, and my watch is a 12y/o $200 Citizen, but I too had a (relatively) nice used sports car and a crappy 1br apartment when my wife and I got married.  I liked cars, and I lived alone knowing we would be moving in together somewhere nicer, no need to spend a lot of money on housing.  FWIW, that sports car is still worth ~2/3rds what I paid for it 12 years ago and I still have it.

Hey, youíre still here! Havenít seen you in a while.

Kashmani

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2018, 11:12:41 AM »
Someone asked what the warning signs were.  In retrospect they would be things like, an expensive flashy sports car, fancy watches, clothes, expensive restaurants etc.  That in itself is not bad, he had a high income that you would think would pay for it, but he lived in a tiny old 1 bedroom with no furniture apart from a bed and tv.  Again not a big deal in your 20's.  And when you're dating it's not really appropriate to say, hey ow much is in your 401k, savings etc.   I guess when you start talking about living together it's good to get details and see what they value.  I had bought a home, was paying it off, saving in the stock market, had an ok car and was careful with my money, I also had a significant salary but our values and spending were different.  So now I would read those superficial things as bad now, I dig guys in boring cars!  Likewise if I was a young man I'd think probably best to run if you're dating a girl that spends all her money on fancy handbags and has crazy credit card debt, (like some girls I knew back then). 

Unfortunately I was very trusting and naive.  Down the line I found his financial decisions alarming and at complete odds with my own.  It led to a lot of arguments.

My God, that was me in my early 20s! And here I thought my less-than-stellar dating life in those days was as a result of bad attitude and bad posture. The irony is that as soon as I was in a stable relationship, I ditched all flashiness and became one of the most frugal people around. I certainly would be richer now had I been told in advance that flashiness does not work.

freedomfightergal

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2018, 11:20:27 AM »
I don't mean to sound mean... But it seems like part of the problem was that you were not really engaged in the household finances.  How does a husband rack up $20k in credit card debt in several months without a spouse knowing?  Also, how is it that you learned that he took out an interest only loan only AFTER he purchased the house? 

One important takeaway from all this is that both spouses should be involved in the finances.  If a spouse allows the other to fully control the finances, then you are just setting yourself up for these type of situations.

You are totally right!   I unfortunately trusted him.  His total lack of common sense still boggles my mind.  Some people just don't get it.  I've learned lessons the hard way, ugh! lol  Hopefully others not yet married reading this will know to never let one person look after all of the Finances.  Unfortunately I've met a LOT of divorcing women that had no clue what was going on.  It's a traditional house hold set up for the man to manage the finances and the woman the household.  Works when two are on the same page, but not when you aren't.


Nicholas Carter

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2018, 11:37:48 AM »

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

What?! How does one become incapable of functioning in the workplace? I know there are some people who have never held a job and are essentially unemployable, but this suggests he was ok then became unemployable. What were the warning signals?
There's a certain kind of person who is basically 'white-knuckling' through employment, limping along one day at a time as if they were addicted to being unemployed, asking themselves each morning if they should just call in and quit their job, wondering as they drive to work if it wouldn't be better to die in a traffic accident instead.
I'd estimate that a big part, if not the majority, of leanFIRE is people in a race: can they save up enough money before they lose their job again to not have to find another?

RetiredAt63

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2018, 08:25:26 AM »
I don't mean to sound mean... But it seems like part of the problem was that you were not really engaged in the household finances.  How does a husband rack up $20k in credit card debt in several months without a spouse knowing?  Also, how is it that you learned that he took out an interest only loan only AFTER he purchased the house? 

One important takeaway from all this is that both spouses should be involved in the finances.  If a spouse allows the other to fully control the finances, then you are just setting yourself up for these type of situations.

You are totally right!   I unfortunately trusted him.  His total lack of common sense still boggles my mind.  Some people just don't get it.  I've learned lessons the hard way, ugh! lol  Hopefully others not yet married reading this will know to never let one person look after all of the Finances.  Unfortunately I've met a LOT of divorcing women that had no clue what was going on.  It's a traditional house hold set up for the man to manage the finances and the woman the household.  Works when two are on the same page, but not when you aren't.

It works both ways - I did all the financial management, bill paying, etc,  He would look at the bank account and see money available to spend - but it was earmarked for upcoming expenses.  A spender will find money to spend, and just not be receptive to the reasons why the money is not really available.

M2 pilot

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2018, 02:43:58 PM »
My last ex-wife's attitude toward money was:  We have money, let's spend it and,  Oops, we're out of money, let's borrow some.

ChickenStash

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2018, 04:30:26 PM »
I don't mean to sound mean... But it seems like part of the problem was that you were not really engaged in the household finances.  How does a husband rack up $20k in credit card debt in several months without a spouse knowing?  Also, how is it that you learned that he took out an interest only loan only AFTER he purchased the house? 

One important takeaway from all this is that both spouses should be involved in the finances.  If a spouse allows the other to fully control the finances, then you are just setting yourself up for these type of situations.

This is definitely an important lesson to be learned - both spouses need to be aware of the finances. That's not to say that one might not have a knack for it and take on the role of doing most of the work but everyone should know what's going on.

As an example, my parents split a few years ago after 25 years of marriage and my Mom found herself in the deep end trying to understand what was going on with the finances. Mostly, it was related to her business which she kept in the divorce. My Dad took care of the finances and day-to-day operations and, despite his efforts to get her involved, my Mom would actively avoid paying attention when he'd try to report on the finances so he eventually stopped trying and kept it to himself (nothing untoward occurred). Well, she had a very tough and very expensive time getting things squared away after the split and it eventually led to her closing the business because she couldn't handle it. The moral of the story is that bad things can happen if both aren't aware of what's happening. 

YHD

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2018, 04:01:13 PM »
My mother married a spendthrift.  She was frugal to a fault and nagged him into giving her control of the family money.  My dad would rebel and open credit cards with low limits.  Enough to set them back a bit with lots of arguments and using the kids as pawns in their fights, but not enough to truly jeopardize the family finances.  But it could have if my mom was not a fighter and my dad ultimately listened because deep down he loved her.

As kids, it was highly unpleasant.  But it's been 52 years and they have a 1M nest egg, a state pension and two social security checks.  My sister and I have done well.  We could support them indefinitely without jeopardizing our own families or retirements.  But it's nice that they can take care of themselves.

That said, my mother's need to save is pathological.  My dad is 82 and dying of metastatic cancer and she keeps nagging him about how much money he is "wasting" on his amazon orders.

Luckystepho

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2018, 02:49:42 AM »
I don't remember my parents arguing about money but they were both a bit 'spendy'. My mum admits that she buys things on impulse although she has never really got herself in debt and lives in her means. She told me later my Dad kept getting them in some debt so they had to keep selling up and moving.

They split up when I was in my teens and luckily married frugal people- my step dad is a saver, and has accounts even my mum doesn't know about. My mum graduated into a profession later in life and has retired with a good pension so they're fine.

My step mum has never really worked but has an absolute horror of debt and lives frugally so her and my dad were able to retire to Spain, where his pension affords them a nice lifestyle. But I do wonder where they'd be financially had they stayed together.

libertarian4321

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2018, 04:07:56 AM »
It's very hard to succeed financially if you are a saver/investor, and you marry a spender. 

I don't care how well she fills those jeans when she's 20, it's probably not a good idea to marry her.

Because when she's fat and 40 and you are both broke and fighting over how to pay the bills with your four kids demanding money for whatever, you won't be thinking of how well she filled those jeans 20 years before.

You don't have to agree on everything, but you need to marry someone who is at least headed in the same general direction as you.





RetiredAt63

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2018, 06:18:27 AM »
It's very hard to succeed financially if you are a saver/investor, and you marry a spender. 

I don't care how well she fills those jeans when she's 20, it's probably not a good idea to marry her.

Because when she's fat and 40 and you are both broke and fighting over how to pay the bills with your four kids demanding money for whatever, you won't be thinking of how well she filled those jeans 20 years before.

You don't have to agree on everything, but you need to marry someone who is at least headed in the same general direction as you.

OR how fit he has kept playing sports all those years and how nice his mustache (real hair on face one) is, when you have no money because of his spending none of that will matter.

Why does she have to be fat and 40?  Couldn't she be looking wonderful at 40 because she spends a fortune at the gym and the spa and the hairdressers and on clothes? 

Of course those 4 kids are certainly going to be a drain on family finances, so discussing how many children you want and can afford is certainly something to discuss before marriage.

golden1

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2018, 04:52:46 AM »
My husband had this on his mind at age 18 when we went out on our first date.  He paid for the first date and then said ďAre you okay with treating me next time?Ē.  I really appreciated that because it just put it right out there what he was looking for, someone who was capable and willing to contribute to a partnership. 

We have been married for 23 years, and while I definitely spend more than him, and our finances have had our ups and downs, we both went into the marriage with the expectation that we were equal partners and contributors in our own ways.  Itís about what you can give to a marriage, not what you can get out of it.

If you both go on with that mindset, almost everything else takes care of itself.  Finances, division of chores, everything. 

TartanTallulah

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2018, 09:29:40 AM »

Likewise their attitude to work. It didn't occur to me that my ex would become incapable of functioning in a workplace because it was a phenomenon I'd never come across before, but there were warning signs early on. I had no idea how riled I'd get about him being willing to live off my income.

What?! How does one become incapable of functioning in the workplace? I know there are some people who have never held a job and are essentially unemployable, but this suggests he was ok then became unemployable. What were the warning signals?

A person can become incapable of functioning at a job for several reasons.

First, they may develop a serious illness (physical or mental) that precludes working. Agoraphobia, OCD, and other mental health problems make working outside the home increasingly difficult.

Second, they may have an addiction that worsens over time to the point where a previously "functional alcoholic" no longer functions. The drug of choice doesn't have to be alcohol; it can just as easily be meth or opioids.

Third, they get badly burned out (possibly by the job) and can no longer put in the long hours or extra work necessary. This happens in start-ups and software companies a lot.

Fourth, they develop commitments outside work that preclude work. They might be caregivers for someone else (not necessarily family) or they may be enabling someone else.

Fifth, they may develop a sense of hopelessness and loss of control, especially if other aspects of their lives such as personal debt are out of control and they feel like they have no choice and no personal agency.

Sixth, they may do what lowlifes call "making a mistake", typically in the form of embezzlement, violent crime, or something else that makes them unemployable in the industry for which they've trained. A professional driver with a DWI, a banker who dips into the till, or a plumber who cleans out more than the drains will become unemployable.

Seventh, they may be tantrum artists who overreact to minor or imaginary slights by blowing up and doing things that get them laid off or fired. This can be a sign of early dementia.

Finally, they may have overstated their credentials to begin with.

Thanks, TGS! That covers most bases.

My XH's situation involved mental illness which was partly genuine and partly fabricated. I know it was partly fabricated because he told me afterwards, in a ha-ha-I-had-you-fooled sort of way. His workplace behaviour became lazy and chaotic and he was rude and inappropriate with colleagues and patients (he was a trainee psychiatrist).

blackomen

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2018, 09:35:32 PM »
I didn't consciously think this way when I was dating but I was fairly modest (though not cheap) on my dates and this naturally filtered out the women who didn't make the cut.

Cool Friend

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2018, 08:19:58 AM »
A few years ago my girlfriend and I were dogsitting at my friend's place for a few days. He lived in a super luxury high rise apartment.  She was depressed for days after we left because she felt like she should be get to live a place like that.  We talked about it and I explained how my friend and his wife each make a lot of money at their jobs, and the two of us simply couldn't afford that kind of lifestyle, but that it doesn't mean we can't be happy, because it's just stuff.  It didn't reach her.

At the time, the two of us had low-paying jobs, but she resented me when I would suggest cheaper alternatives to things we wanted to/had to buy.  Once I mortified her by using a calculator in a grocery store to compare cost-per-volume of soap or some such thing, which granted is not "normal" behavior but it's not like I asked for strangers' leftovers at a restaurant.  She also resented me when I would expect her to pay for herself sometimes, and then a year into the relationship I found out her mom was sending her $500 every month, so she was actually bringing in significantly more money than me.  Like a lot of people, I think she believed spending money on people was how you showed them you loved them, and since I was "stingy" it meant I didn't love her.  Also like a lot of people, I think she believed that Things were the key to her happiness.

Reader, the relationship did not work out.

Just Joe

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2018, 12:51:41 PM »
You dodged a bullet.

A better outcome is sitting around the dinner table with your thoughtful significant other deciding what best to do with all the spare cash the two of you have saved b/c you've made the optimum choices big and small in life.

Its really too bad that so many people fall into the "spend everything" trap.

BDWW

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2018, 03:01:35 PM »
It seems odd to me that so many people struggle to see differences up front. I would say in most cases, there should be enough clues outside of overtly talking about finances that would clue you in.

I don't mean this to be derogatory or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I always took dating as a way to evaluate the values of the person you're associating with. I'm pretty laid back, so any signs of "high maintenance" were red flags to me. The amount of shopping/designer clothes,etc. Even the amount of time getting ready for an event (overly fussy about looks).   Later - if the relationship passed the first rounds - it would be talking about life goals, and what the person imagined their future life like.

I'm guessing a fair amount has to do with introverts versus extroverts. Extroverts being more willing to hang out with (drastically?) differing personalities?

Just Joe

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2018, 08:07:55 PM »
Or people focusing only on things like physical attributes or how fun their potential mate is - not how they manage chores and responsibilities.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 01:17:14 PM by Just Joe »

Hula Hoop

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2019, 03:11:57 AM »
I have to admit that I didn't look too closely at my ex-boyfriend's financial values.  Even though I lived with 3 different boyfriends before marrying my husband.  Two out of three were pretty frugal but I think that had a lot to do with the fact that they were grad students at the time so there wasn't much money to go around.  One had an obsession with motorcycles but he had a pretty cheap one as he was doing his Phd at the time.  I suspect that now that he's no longer a student and has a good job he probably spends a ton on the motorcycle hobby though.  Anyway not my problem as that relationship didn't work out for other reasons.

I feel like I fell into a relationship with a frugal guy -now my husband-out of sheer luck.  I really wasn't aware of all this stuff when I was younger.  I just wanted to meet someone who was nice and treated me well and who wasn't "boring".  It's true, though, that I tend not to be attracted to "boring" guys with normal jobs, values and lives.  I did briefly date a banker -didn't last long as they guy had really conventional values -rolling in money and wanted to do things like play golf buy expensive sports tickets and go on yachts.  He also wanted a woman who would be a stay at home mom to future kids.  Not my cup of tea at all so that ended fast.

freedomfightergal

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2019, 01:20:28 PM »
It seems odd to me that so many people struggle to see differences up front. I would say in most cases, there should be enough clues outside of overtly talking about finances that would clue you in.

I don't mean this to be derogatory or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I always took dating as a way to evaluate the values of the person you're associating with. I'm pretty laid back, so any signs of "high maintenance" were red flags to me. The amount of shopping/designer clothes,etc. Even the amount of time getting ready for an event (overly fussy about looks).   Later - if the relationship passed the first rounds - it would be talking about life goals, and what the person imagined their future life like.

I'm guessing a fair amount has to do with introverts versus extroverts. Extroverts being more willing to hang out with (drastically?) differing personalities?


great question!  I've asked it myself.  Here's what are my thoughts.  I come from a broken home,(absent father), with no compass on what is a good guy.   I had no one guiding me in my dating life, apart from gf's without much clue either.   I followed chemistry more than I should've. I believed love conquered all, so I always worked hard to try to make things work, (I think because I say my parents failed marriage ).  And I also liked the man that was the most interested, so if a guy called occasionally, I wrote him off as not that interested and liked the super keen ones that rang every day and wanted to spend every second together.  Well that turns out to be a red flag now.  Taking it slow and really getting to know the person is the smartest way, not that some people have lucked out in a fast commitment.  Oh and I grew up very sheltered which led me to being gullable and naive.  I recall my best gf finally making me promise to believe NOTHING a guy say's for the first 3 months!!  HAHAHA   Still didn't stop me from marrying the worst!

Hindsight!  Ugh, if I could go back....

Cool Friend

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2019, 06:50:51 AM »
It seems odd to me that so many people struggle to see differences up front. I would say in most cases, there should be enough clues outside of overtly talking about finances that would clue you in.

I don't mean this to be derogatory or anything, I'm just genuinely curious. I always took dating as a way to evaluate the values of the person you're associating with. I'm pretty laid back, so any signs of "high maintenance" were red flags to me. The amount of shopping/designer clothes,etc. Even the amount of time getting ready for an event (overly fussy about looks).   Later - if the relationship passed the first rounds - it would be talking about life goals, and what the person imagined their future life like.

I'm guessing a fair amount has to do with introverts versus extroverts. Extroverts being more willing to hang out with (drastically?) differing personalities?

I think of that quote from Bojack Horseman: "When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."

« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 08:16:19 AM by Cool Friend »

YW55

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Re: to the young ones, make sure you marry someone with similar $ values..
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2019, 11:33:02 AM »
I think I really got lucky with my almost 4 years girlfriend. I'm been into the FIRE movement for while now but haven't really talked about FIRE with my girlfriend seriously. About a month ago she showed me the MMM blog and how suddenly she wanted to FIRE. I was pretty surprised and proud of her to say the least. I should've seen this coming as she paid off her $90k student loan in about 2 and a half years.

We started to talk about marriage more seriously now. Combined our net worth is around $300k and income is about $180k in Texas. We can realistically retire before hitting 40 but having children in the future could change a lot of that, we'll see.