Spouse wants luxury SUV!

[Radagast]

First post in these parts! Is it uncouth to nominate yourself? Not sure what I am after: advice? consolation? sympathy? suggestions?

I've played the three D's of defense: Delay, distract, deflect.

I've gone through the 7 stages of grief: denial, anger, pleading, acceptance, bargaining, wait what are the 7 stages of grief?

Spouse is still dead set on it. And I have already delayed 6 years and I can't hold out much longer. Technically "we can afford it." It will only result in a net worth reduction of around $200,000 10 years from now (/s). I promised spouse would get it after we had $1M (which seemed so far away), and when we needed a new vehicle. We are nearly to $1M depending how you count, and our Honda Civic, which has half as many doors and paint as a typical Civic would have, is not especially suitable to transporting larger children in child seats (we also have a Subaru Forester). The obvious solution is a luxury SUV!

Naturally spouse went straight for the most expensive one on the list: Mercedes GLE 350 4Matic, new, the one without tax credits for PHEV or the resulting lower fuel demand. There still might be a little negotiation. I've been saying at least get a CR-V, or a minivan, or an electric vehicle, or even a Volvo XC90 which is just as nice, offers better value, and comes in a PHEV. Spouse's wealthiest friend, whose cheapest house is 13,000 square feet on a lake, strongly recommended a Toyota Sienna minivan as the best possible vehicle which could be bought for any amount of money, and the friend drives this vehicle daily in real life. Yay wealthiest friend! We will see.

Cars I have seen which I found disappointing during our search:
BMW X5: looks like ass, handles like minivan, ages poorly. A high-end Honda CR-V would be better in almost every respect.
Toyota Highlander: wouldn't you think a very fuel efficient 3-row SUV would be just the thing? No, the Highlander tries to be both the RAV4 and the Sienna, and ends up failing at life. Seriously people, if a RAV4 hybrid doesn't work for you, just get a Sienna hybrid.

Cars which exceed expectations (don't get me wrong these also handle like minivan):
Chrysler Pacifica: I heard about it on MMM, so probably not a surprise, but Stow n Go seating is no joke. This feature is now my all time most lusted after automotive feature. You could camp in it! Stack plywood! Make it a limo! Seat 8 people! Road trip!
Volvo XC90: wow, this is one classy car. Not as practical as a minivan, but it is elegant and well made inside and out. It would be right at home pulling into the gated drive of a stone mansion, and yet is not as expensive as the X5 and GLE. It also may be the actual safest vehicle on the road.

Silver linings:
Spouse doesn't like any paint colors except black and white, which are always no cost.
Spouse has no use for any but the smallest engine.
Luxury vehicles usually have the dumb moon roof as an option on all trims.

Well that's it from me, not sure what else I can say about it. Will keep you posted on the outcome.

[AccidentialMustache]

At those prices you could have your pick of any of most of the EV SUVs. Model Y, ID.4, Mach E, Ioniq 5, probably more...

Side-side benefit -- sure you're spending that much on a car, but the Y at least is delivering almost a year out, so more delay? And then something better comes out and you can go for that instead for yet more delay?

[Radagast]

Apparently those aren't shaped right, or the range is too short (but not for our needs, and on average our fuel tank is 5/8 full anyway). I can't argue with that: it is really hard to tell Teslas within 1 size range apart. The Volvo XC40 electric is also very nice, but nope.

Most vehicles seem 3-4 months out, another silver lining.

[six-car-habit]

 Delay seems like an unfair tactic at this point- as you've said you met the savings goal, and your spouse is at the point , 6 years later, where they feel they need a new vehicle - due to family size.

 Mercedes has been making the GL-350 for several years now i think. Why not buy a low mile 2017-2020 model at a substantial savings to buying new?

 It sounds like the Civic is not going to be a factor for trade-in value [?] - at least not to the point of massively offsetting the cost of a new car / sales taxes on new car.

 Who will be driving this aspirational car mostly ?  Is the spouse contributing to the future payment, or using their cash ?  If it is not you as the primary driver, and they contribute $$, maybe you should ease up, and let them make the choice.  You've already held them back for the last 6 years, is that not a big enough win ?

 What is holding you back from trading your Forrester for a sweet Sienna for yourself to drive ?

[former player]

My understanding is that children getting bigger is a frequent excuse for a new car, although not necessarily a good one.  But I'm British so a Honda Civic seems pretty big to me as cars go, and unless your kids are especially giant sized or spending many hours in the car every day perfectly adequate in size.

You are contending with two separate issues, the first being "SUV" and the second being "luxury".  Any new or newish car these days seems to me to meet the definition of "luxury" (air con, entertainment system, comfortable ride, safety features, etc.) so I suspect that this element is mostly about perception and status and the badge on the vehicle.   But given how long you've been following mustachian values if this hasn't sunk in with your spouse yet it probably never will, and also probably isn't worth wrecking a marriage over.

The SUV thing also seems to be something of a lost cause in the USA.  A stupid sort of vehicle which is basically a camel designed by a committee to get round a provision in the tax code, yes?  But again, seems to have some sort of status which is nothing to do with what it actually is.  Yay for wealthy friend in the minivan.

If I were you I would probably be giving up on the luxury and the SUV and trying to go down the hybrid/electric route on the grounds that 1) it is an investment in your kids' future not to add to climate change and air pollution any more than you have to and 2) you are future-proofing yourselves against the phase-out of fossil fuel cars which will certainly start during the lifetime of this vehicle, even in the USA.  You do not want to find yourselves effectively locked out of city centres by emissions limits and charges, for instance.   And benchmark any contenders against that Toyota minivan.

[Paper Chaser]

There's a Lincoln Aviator PHEV too. It's got more hp, more torque, and more electric range than the Volvo PHEVs, and doesn't require expensive premium fuel.

[boarder42]

the practicality of a minivan is unmatched and if bigger kids is really the goal no SUV provides the level of convivence a minivan provides.  I'm the one in our family lusting after the big shiny new EV truck and I cannot come to terms with the amount of function we lose if we sell our honda odyssey and keep our ford escape.  So IF we get an EV truck then the Ford escape goes and now I have 2 cars that do similar things.  Where is the All EV minivan at that can tow 5k lbs for 250 miles is this too much to ask?

[uniwelder]

...Any new or newish car these days seems to me to meet the definition of "luxury" (air con, entertainment system, comfortable ride, safety features, etc.) so I suspect that this element is mostly about perception and status and the badge on the vehicle.   But given how long you've been following mustachian values if this hasn't sunk in with your spouse yet it probably never will, and also probably isn't worth wrecking a marriage over...

I suppose these issues spill over into more areas than just this vehicle purchase.  I've seen some of your other posts, Radagast, but not much discussion of how your wife plays into mustachian lifestyle FIRE plans or her thoughts on it.

[Askel]

If somebody is dead set on a Mercedes SUV (horrible quality, horrible resale value, pretty much horrible everything), there's no amount of mustachian logic that can be used to fight it. 

Besides, it sounds like you had a deal- reneging now would be very unfair.   

Buy it, enjoy it, hope that they learn that Mercedes luxury isn't all it's cracked up to be and maybe buy something more practical next time.   

[chemistk]

My condolences. I hope you are able to talk your spouse down from the luxury SUV ledge - your biggest cost for the Merc, or the Volvo, Audi, or really any other luxury brand will be the purchase. But your second biggest (and depending on how long you own it, biggest) cost will be maintenance. Parts are expensive and labor is even more expensive for modern luxury brands.

Many in our family call our 2014 Odyssey a "living room on wheels" and I agree. I love it, and if it weren't for the abysmal fuel economy (and the fact that my car is still doing fine), I'd get one for myself.

If a new, fancy, expensive car is in your future and your relationship revolves around it (and if it actually does, maybe some professional assistance is in order) I'd put all your eggs in the minivan basket. At least you'll have something fancy AND practical.

[Metalcat]

You made a promise to your wife.

I'm not sure there's much more to discuss here. Don't make promises you don't intend to keep. That's shady as fuck.

[thesis]

My condolences as well. But for perspective, it's a lot cheaper than your networth being cut in half ;)

[roomtempmayo]

If somebody is dead set on a Mercedes SUV (horrible quality, horrible resale value, pretty much horrible everything), there's no amount of mustachian logic that can be used to fight it.

Yup.

@Radagast This seems like a great time to lease a vehicle.  36 months from now, it'll probably be out of your wife's system, and you won't be stuck with the albatross of an aging luxury suv.  If she turns out to really, really love it, you can always buy the lease out.

[jinga nation]

Naturally spouse went straight for the most expensive one on the list: Mercedes GLE 350 4Matic, new, the one without tax credits for PHEV or the resulting lower fuel demand.

Nah, you're lucky she picked a lower end model. Does the she want the AMG packages?
The top of the line GLE is the AMG GLE 53 4MATIC+ SUV, starts at $73,550.

@caleb is right, you're better off leasing (at ~$750/mo for 36 months).

With friends/acquaintances who've bought MB SUVs new and via CPO, I can tell you there will be some issue annually. When there is an issue, make your wife sort it out as it is her car, she wanted it.

For the price of the model your wife wants, I'd prefer to go with the Lexus GX. Still a gas guzzler, but with the legendary Toyota reliability.

[Paper Chaser]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

[chemistk]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

[Metalcat]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

This is the most anti-mustachian statement I have EVER seen here.

Why the fuck should anyone decide what to drive based on what someone on the internet thinks is acceptable according to people with "old money"???

I hang out with a lot of wealthy people, unless it's a very expensive car, no one gives a fuck what you drive.

There is NO universal, monolithic culture among "the wealthy". Different social groups have different social values. And at the end of the day, NONE OF THEM matter in the least for any given individual, which is the whole point of MMM.

[Paper Chaser]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

[gooki]

Is the RAV4 Prime too small?/Not luxurious enough?

Does the Hyundai Ioniq 5 have the right SUV shape?

[Just Joe]

"Mercedes has been making the GL-350 for several years now i think. Why not buy a low mile 2017-2020 model at a substantial savings to buying new?"

Buy a used one at least. We went this route several years back and bought a nice 40K mile Acura MDX like new that has been trouble free for 70K miles now. Cheaper than a new Honda CRV or Pilot. 28-30 MPG on the highway last weekend, not a hybrid. Same as a Honda Odyssey/Pilot/Ridgeline underneath.

It required a timing belt at 105K. The parts are affordable but the shop visit would be quite expensive. Nearly $2K at the dealer. I DIY'd it for ~$250 with quality parts. We use it mostly for out of town trips and weekends.

By the way we're still running our 22 year old CRV daily with north of 300K miles now. Very reliable. I have done any and all repairs but still very cheap to run. Since it is old, parts are dirt cheap when it needs something.

Consider that all cars and SUVs are selling at a premium right now b/c of COVID supply chain problems. This might be the worst time in 30 years to buy a vehicle. When I visited the Acura dealer a month or so ago for a taillight gasket recall - they had TWO new vehicles available and a dozen used vehicles from a variety of brands.

I agree with everyone else. Go for the Mercedes if you like. Maintenance and repairs will be expensive - and it will need repairs. A friend had one for a couple of years. Really nice but they replaced it with something else mainstream b/c it was so expensive to keep running. Friends are not DIY mechanics. Also, I know a couple of BMW owners that have needed whole engines. My friend with the used Lexus has had a similar experience as we have - trouble free. 

[Fishindude]

Biggest downside of the brands like Mercedes is it costs $1000 every time you take it in for service and they find any minor issue.

[Sibley]

You made a promise to your wife.

I'm not sure there's much more to discuss here. Don't make promises you don't intend to keep. That's shady as fuck.

This. Doesn't matter what OP thinks about it, they made an agreement. Breaking that agreement now, when the conditions have been met, is going to damage the relationship.

[parkerk]

Yeah, nothing that a bunch of people on the internet say is going to change your wife's mind.  I agree with those who've said above that if you made a promise, it's something you have to stick with unless you want to do damage to your relationship and your wife's trust in you.  Plus, if she's been making compromises all this time because she's been looking forward to this, how do you think it feels for her if you pull a bait-and-switch?

I'd suggest focusing instead on how you want this to be a lesson for yourself in future negotiations and goal-setting as a couple.  If you "promise" something hoping that you won't actually have to deliver on it either you or your wife is going to be disappointed in the outcome.  Instead, think about either building in room to discuss and negotiate further when the milestone is reached, or you need to come to an agreement that you can be reasonably sure you'll still be happy with in the future. 

I say this because it's not always easy to predict what your feelings on a matter will be two, or five, or ten years from now.  I've learned the hard way not to say "I will definitely do X when Y happens" if I can help it because multiple times I've gotten to Y only to realize I don't want X anymore.  If it's just me that's affected that's fine, but if someone else was counting on me doing X it's been a problem.  Don't be like me!

[Metalcat]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

Also a huge generalization.

Plenty of "old money" wealthy folks drive luxury SUVs, very expensive vintage Land Rovers are all the rage among certain segments of "old wealth" folks.

Again, it depends on the group and the social history of the region.

But your assumption that the signals of wealth aren't noticeable is a common mistake. They may not be noticable to the middle class, but they're glaringly obvious to those who trade in those symbols of wealth.

I found the books in the same series as "Crazy Rich Asians" so perfectly captured my personal experience with the world of intense wealth. What's status to one group is tacky to another. How in one context, the people "in the know" knew that the ultimate symbol of status at a certain club was to show up in a dirty SUV wearing a really worn sports sweater of a particular vintage. To them, the status is obvious. It's not subtle, it just seems that way from the outside.

It's the same way that in my circles, I demonstrate status by carrying a beat up backpack instead of a Louis Vuitton bag like everyone else. It's a power play.

I laughed A LOT reading those books, the nonsense of it all was so PERFECTLY captured.

Suffice to say, NO ONE should base their decisions on the mercurial preferences of the ultra wealthy. That's just silly.

[Chris22]

I grew up around a lot of old money in CT. They all drove Mercedes. This was before SUVs, but I imagine it includes SUVs today. They all bought nicer cars and then drove them for 10 years. A normal garage was a Mercedes or Volvo sedan or wagon, a large American SUV, and maybe a convertible Porsche, Mercedes or Jaguar.

I wouldn’t do anything based on that information but the trope “old money buys cheap cars” isn’t true in my experience.

[Paper Chaser]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

Also a huge generalization.

Plenty of "old money" wealthy folks drive luxury SUVs, very expensive vintage Land Rovers are all the rage among certain segments of "old wealth" folks.

I admit that it was a generalization. However, in my defense, I said "flashy luxury SUVs" and "New 6 figure Benz". A vintage Land Rover is not flashy, luxurious, or new even if they can be expensive.

I agree with you that "old money" absolutely flaunts wealth, they simply do it in different ways. And not necessarily in the ways that most people of lesser means might think. 6 figure vintage Land Rover or Bronco vs 6 figure new Benz is a great example. They're both expensive status symbols, but they appeal to different types of people for different reasons.

[chemistk]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

This is the most anti-mustachian statement I have EVER seen here.

Why the fuck should anyone decide what to drive based on what someone on the internet thinks is acceptable according to people with "old money"???

I hang out with a lot of wealthy people, unless it's a very expensive car, no one gives a fuck what you drive.

There is NO universal, monolithic culture among "the wealthy". Different social groups have different social values. And at the end of the day, NONE OF THEM matter in the least for any given individual, which is the whole point of MMM.

I agree that it's supremely anti-mustachian.

I did not word it well. It's not meant to be taken as an imperative to the OP that he should avoid something that's a better value. This whole topic is weird, but within that context my own personal experience with people who come from means and those that surround them is that choosing a luxury vehicle, or anything for that matter, because it's a 'value' is social suicide.

My wife has extended family on both sides who are very wealthy, and those clusters have a wider circle (family and non family) of brownnosers who try to appear wealthy. My GIL has driven a Lexus his whole life and his first Lexus purchase did not garner any approval.

The whole thing is stupid and antithetical to the ethos of this community, or frankly to common sense.

I guess I meant to convey it more as a warning of sorts - that if perception is desired, an 'off brand' may not win one any favors. And a huge YMMV is necessary here.

ETA, I missed this one - very much words to live by.

Suffice to say, NO ONE should base their decisions on the mercurial preferences of the ultra wealthy. That's just silly.

[Chris22]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

Also a huge generalization.

Plenty of "old money" wealthy folks drive luxury SUVs, very expensive vintage Land Rovers are all the rage among certain segments of "old wealth" folks.

I admit that it was a generalization. However, in my defense, I said "flashy luxury SUVs" and "New 6 figure Benz". A vintage Land Rover is not flashy, luxurious, or new even if they can be expensive.

I agree with you that "old money" absolutely flaunts wealth, they simply do it in different ways. And not necessarily in the ways that most people of lesser means might think. 6 figure vintage Land Rover or Bronco vs 6 figure new Benz is a great example. They're both expensive status symbols, but they appeal to different types of people for different reasons.

Most rich people who drive old SUVs I know have old SUVs because they bought them new a long time ago and hung onto them.

The recent trend of people buying old Defenders, Grand Wagoneers, etc, is to mimic the old money that bought those cars new and drove them for a long time; it’s new money trying to look old. 

[Metalcat]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

Also a huge generalization.

Plenty of "old money" wealthy folks drive luxury SUVs, very expensive vintage Land Rovers are all the rage among certain segments of "old wealth" folks.

I admit that it was a generalization. However, in my defense, I said "flashy luxury SUVs" and "New 6 figure Benz". A vintage Land Rover is not flashy, luxurious, or new even if they can be expensive.

I agree with you that "old money" absolutely flaunts wealth, they simply do it in different ways. And not necessarily in the ways that most people of lesser means might think. 6 figure vintage Land Rover or Bronco vs 6 figure new Benz is a great example. They're both expensive status symbols, but they appeal to different types of people for different reasons.

You said "flashy luxury SUVs". To someone who knows how much a customized vintage Land Rover is, that *is* a flashy, luxury SUV.

Just because a lot of people don't know the item is a blatant status symbol doesn't mean it isn't a blatant status symbol.

No one except jewelers or people who have very expensive taste in jewelry ever clock my antique ruby ring as anything special, but that doesn't make it subtle. If you have any clue about jewelry, you will stop in your tracks and say "look at that ring!" when you see it.

I can't walk into a jewelry store without all of the staff wanting to take a look at it, but your average person just thinks it's a cute red ring.

There's a huge difference between being subtle and being obscure in your references.

[Metalcat]

An option from Genesis might be worth considering as well. They tend to offer a lot more for your $, and they've got a far superior warranty so you can avoid paying high prices for service for a longer period of time.

I do not say this in jest - nobody who hangs around old money (or even new money for that matter) would ever be caught dead in a Genesis. It's only in recent years that Lexus is considered an 'acceptable' luxury brand.

Old money probably isn't buying flashy luxury SUVs in the first place. They'll scoff at the person in their new 6 figure, leased Benz just the same. I'd even argue that a truly luxurious purchase that isn't immediately recognized as a flashy, luxury brand might go over better (if we're worried about what others think).

Also a huge generalization.

Plenty of "old money" wealthy folks drive luxury SUVs, very expensive vintage Land Rovers are all the rage among certain segments of "old wealth" folks.

I admit that it was a generalization. However, in my defense, I said "flashy luxury SUVs" and "New 6 figure Benz". A vintage Land Rover is not flashy, luxurious, or new even if they can be expensive.

I agree with you that "old money" absolutely flaunts wealth, they simply do it in different ways. And not necessarily in the ways that most people of lesser means might think. 6 figure vintage Land Rover or Bronco vs 6 figure new Benz is a great example. They're both expensive status symbols, but they appeal to different types of people for different reasons.

Most rich people who drive old SUVs I know have old SUVs because they bought them new a long time ago and hung onto them.

The recent trend of people buying old Defenders, Grand Wagoneers, etc, is to mimic the old money that bought those cars new and drove them for a long time; it’s new money trying to look old.

Again, this depends on the social circle.

"Old money" folks are people who grew up among wealth, so their own behaviours tend to consist of imitating people with wealth.

So for every older wealthy person who might still own their original Land Rover, there might be a neighbour's kid who sources a vintage one and has it customized to imitate their older wealthy neighbour because that's what's cool. 

These are just people who are as susceptible to social pressures as everyone else. Nothing special.

[daverobev]

OP, what 'it' did you promise? A Mercedes? An SUV? A new car?

I would try and pick the best of a bad bunch/come to a compromise - but show the reliability rankings.

AFAIK yeah a Toyota Sienna is just the most solid thing you can get.

[JAYSLOL]

I would definitely try to split the difference between a Mercedes SUV and a CRV and go with a Lexus SUV or Acura SUV.  Both are equally luxurious feeling as a Mercedes, but have Honda/Toyota quality and resale value

[joe189man]

the practicality of a minivan is unmatched and if bigger kids is really the goal no SUV provides the level of convivence a minivan provides.  I'm the one in our family lusting after the big shiny new EV truck and I cannot come to terms with the amount of function we lose if we sell our honda odyssey and keep our ford escape.  So IF we get an EV truck then the Ford escape goes and now I have 2 cars that do similar things.  Where is the All EV minivan at that can tow 5k lbs for 250 miles is this too much to ask?

We have a honda odyessy which is a fantastic vehicle and i lust after the new hybrid toyota sienna as it gets ~35 mpg vs ~19 for the odyessy in town and ~26 mpg highway. I feel you on an electric truck, i want one, but check out the towing videos on youtube most electric  cars/trucks can go ~100 miles then need to charge while towing.

OP - Maybe try for the hybrid Toyota Sienna?

[RetiredAt63]

My DD just got a Kia Sorento (new but she plans to keep it for at least 10 years) and wow is it nice. 

[gooki]

If you're set on spending that kind of money do consider the Rivian RS1. At least that way it'll have some resale value in 5-10 years, and your wife can lord her eco creed over her polluting millionaire associates.

[JoePublic3.14]

the practicality of a minivan is unmatched and if bigger kids is really the goal no SUV provides the level of convivence a minivan provides.

Yeah, this. Every time I see someone in a minivan I am jealous. They ride better than most vehicles, handle better than most vehicles, haul more than any vehicle, and so on.

Good luck OP.

[HPstache]

I would definitely try to split the difference between a Mercedes SUV and a CRV and go with a Lexus SUV or Acura SUV.  Both are equally luxurious feeling as a Mercedes, but have Honda/Toyota quality and resale value

This is what I would attempt do as well as long as I wasn't breaking any promises.

[JLee]

Tesla Model Y, Rivian R1S would be at the top of my list if I had to go new.

Otherwise, used Lexus GX460 for ~$22k?

[Chris22]

If you're set on spending that kind of money do consider the Rivian RS1. At least that way it'll have some resale value in 5-10 years, and your wife can lord her eco creed over her polluting millionaire associates.

It will be interesting to see if that bears true.

There’s one school of thought that says when (if?) you can no longer buy new gas cars, well kept used gas cars will be in high demand. 

Another says that once EVs are a little more advanced no one will want gas cars. However, that would likely obsolete all of the current EVs as well; a current EV might be as popular as a 3rd Gen iPhone is today, I.e. worthless.

So it may bear out that a Rivian will command a premium in 5-10 years, or the tech may move so fast making it worthless. Or Rivian as a company could fail, orphaning the Rivian and also making it near worthless.

A lot of possibilities. Myself, I hedged my bets against obsolescence by leasing my PHEV, I think the tech is moving too fast to invest too heavily into it yet, unless someone wants a Tesla, those tend to hold their value far more than any other EV.

[nedwin]

Oh man, I was in the same boat as you!  I deflected and delayed also but only made it about 3 years.  We now have a Honda Pilot in "Elite" trim, purchased used at the end of the before times.  If the Highlander or Sienna won't do it, I recommend Lexus, Acura or Honda.

[Radagast]

Delay seems like an unfair tactic at this point- as you've said you met the savings goal, and your spouse is at the point , 6 years later, where they feel they need a new vehicle - due to family size.

 Mercedes has been making the GL-350 for several years now i think. Why not buy a low mile 2017-2020 model at a substantial savings to buying new?

 It sounds like the Civic is not going to be a factor for trade-in value [?] - at least not to the point of massively offsetting the cost of a new car / sales taxes on new car.

 Who will be driving this aspirational car mostly ?  Is the spouse contributing to the future payment, or using their cash ?  If it is not you as the primary driver, and they contribute $$, maybe you should ease up, and let them make the choice.  You've already held them back for the last 6 years, is that not a big enough win ?

 What is holding you back from trading your Forrester for a sweet Sienna for yourself to drive ?

Strictly we have not met the savings goal, as our NW has never had two commas by any measure for any length of time, and definitely not after adjusting to generic or vehicle inflation. But, close enough I guess.

The GLE and X5 made major improvements in 2020, which made newer vehicles much nicer, especially on the inside. It is hard to get 2020+ used, and the price difference from new in current market is not large. Older ones are available, but not as nice, and also inflated compared to years past.

Spouse makes enough money to pay, but expects the vehicle to be associated with baby rather than spouse, which is what I object to, because I drop baby at day care 3 days a week, making me the primary driver :-|.

Last thing we need is to spend money on two vehicles!

[Radagast]

My understanding is that children getting bigger is a frequent excuse for a new car, although not necessarily a good one.  But I'm British so a Honda Civic seems pretty big to me as cars go, and unless your kids are especially giant sized or spending many hours in the car every day perfectly adequate in size.

The SUV thing also seems to be something of a lost cause in the USA.  A stupid sort of vehicle which is basically a camel designed by a committee to get round a provision in the tax code, yes?  But again, seems to have some sort of status which is nothing to do with what it actually is.  Yay for wealthy friend in the minivan.

The Honda civic is actually large enough for sure. The two doors are an advantage for a baby in a car seat, because I can put baby in the back, put the seat back in place, and get in without even moving my feet. I am the envy of every Range Rover driving mom. But soon baby and car seat will need to be removed separately, and four doors will then be very advantageous.

SUV's aren't entirely bad. As they become more mainstream and are pressured for better efficiency, there has been a strong trend towards lower roofs, rounded corners, and lower grills. They are not all the way to wagons yet though. They are more spacious per unit of length, and except for the absurd ones are generally at a better height for human interaction.

[Radagast]

There's a Lincoln Aviator PHEV too. It's got more hp, more torque, and more electric range than the Volvo PHEVs, and doesn't require expensive premium fuel.

Considered it. Options made it expensive fast, more expensive in fact. Spouse desires certain brands (specifically German), and I am not inclined to push for a more expensive vehicle which is not one of those brands.

[Radagast]

If somebody is dead set on a Mercedes SUV (horrible quality, horrible resale value, pretty much horrible everything), there's no amount of mustachian logic that can be used to fight it. 

Besides, it sounds like you had a deal- reneging now would be very unfair.   

Buy it, enjoy it, hope that they learn that Mercedes luxury isn't all it's cracked up to be and maybe buy something more practical next time.

Yup, that's basically the situation.

[Radagast]

If somebody is dead set on a Mercedes SUV (horrible quality, horrible resale value, pretty much horrible everything), there's no amount of mustachian logic that can be used to fight it.

Yup.

@Radagast This seems like a great time to lease a vehicle.  36 months from now, it'll probably be out of your wife's system, and you won't be stuck with the albatross of an aging luxury suv.  If she turns out to really, really love it, you can always buy the lease out.

...Any new or newish car these days seems to me to meet the definition of "luxury" (air con, entertainment system, comfortable ride, safety features, etc.) so I suspect that this element is mostly about perception and status and the badge on the vehicle.   But given how long you've been following mustachian values if this hasn't sunk in with your spouse yet it probably never will, and also probably isn't worth wrecking a marriage over...

I suppose these issues spill over into more areas than just this vehicle purchase.  I've seen some of your other posts, Radagast, but not much discussion of how your wife plays into mustachian lifestyle FIRE plans or her thoughts on it.

Spouse grew up in deep poverty, both in an absolute sense, and relative to peers. Upon coming of age spouse was then suddenly thrust into an age of rampant consumerism. Spouse is in no way against having $1M, is well aware of the power of saving and the benefit of financial security, and is capable of as much frugality as anyone, but also has a mental urge to demonstrate wealth and success to self and others on occasion. Not with little things, and really just with the vehicle and a nice house. So leasing is out: spouse desires to own the vehicle, and not even so much to drive it, as I am under pressure to be the primary driver.

[Radagast]

Naturally spouse went straight for the most expensive one on the list: Mercedes GLE 350 4Matic, new, the one without tax credits for PHEV or the resulting lower fuel demand.

Nah, you're lucky she picked a lower end model. Does the she want the AMG packages?
The top of the line GLE is the AMG GLE 53 4MATIC+ SUV, starts at $73,550.

@caleb is right, you're better off leasing (at ~$750/mo for 36 months).

With friends/acquaintances who've bought MB SUVs new and via CPO, I can tell you there will be some issue annually. When there is an issue, make your wife sort it out as it is her car, she wanted it.

For the price of the model your wife wants, I'd prefer to go with the Lexus GX. Still a gas guzzler, but with the legendary Toyota reliability.

Spouse has no use for big engines, and thinks exterior trim packages almost always make things look worse and too aggressive. So no need for AMG, thankfully.

Another silver lining is that though spouse dislikes round Teslas, but also dislikes boxy GXs, Navigators, GLSs, and such.

[former player]

If somebody is dead set on a Mercedes SUV (horrible quality, horrible resale value, pretty much horrible everything), there's no amount of mustachian logic that can be used to fight it.

Yup.

@Radagast This seems like a great time to lease a vehicle.  36 months from now, it'll probably be out of your wife's system, and you won't be stuck with the albatross of an aging luxury suv.  If she turns out to really, really love it, you can always buy the lease out.

...Any new or newish car these days seems to me to meet the definition of "luxury" (air con, entertainment system, comfortable ride, safety features, etc.) so I suspect that this element is mostly about perception and status and the badge on the vehicle.   But given how long you've been following mustachian values if this hasn't sunk in with your spouse yet it probably never will, and also probably isn't worth wrecking a marriage over...

I suppose these issues spill over into more areas than just this vehicle purchase.  I've seen some of your other posts, Radagast, but not much discussion of how your wife plays into mustachian lifestyle FIRE plans or her thoughts on it.

Spouse grew up in deep poverty, both in an absolute sense, and relative to peers. Upon coming of age spouse was then suddenly thrust into an age of rampant consumerism. Spouse is in no way against having $1M, is well aware of the power of saving and the benefit of financial security, and is capable of as much frugality as anyone, but also has a mental urge to demonstrate wealth and success to self and others on occasion. Not with little things, and really just with the vehicle and a nice house. So leasing is out: spouse desires to own the vehicle, and not even so much to drive it, as I am under pressure to be the primary driver.

This sounds quite hopeful to me, on the basis that a single purchase of a new Merc might well be enough to satisfy the mental urge - particularly if the experience of owning the dratted thing over a period of time proves to be less satisfactory than imagined.  I would suggest that you give in with good grace, pay for the fuel and repairs with good grace, and gently revisit the notion of owning a premium German brand truck when it becomes irrevocably unrepairable.

[Dave1442397]

Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5, which seems to be coming out in the US at last.

This is the latest US review that I've seen (this morning) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXo4HAwb_M

[Radagast]

Is the RAV4 Prime too small?/Not luxurious enough?

Does the Hyundai Ioniq 5 have the right SUV shape?

Correct on all counts! Well technically a RAV4 is large enough, but it would really need to check all the other boxes.

Look at the Hyundai Ioniq 5, which seems to be coming out in the US at last.

This is the latest US review that I've seen (this morning) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYXo4HAwb_M

Classic example. People who hang out on MMM definitely fail to comprehend buyers of luxury name brand vehicles. If an Ioniq would suffice I won't have posted in Anti-Mustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy now would I? ;-)

[Radagast]

Consider that all cars and SUVs are selling at a premium right now b/c of COVID supply chain problems. This might be the worst time in 30 years to buy a vehicle. When I visited the Acura dealer a month or so ago for a taillight gasket recall - they had TWO new vehicles available and a dozen used vehicles from a variety of brands.

Totally. I'd say it is the worst time since assembly lines were converted to tanks in WWII. They are all like that. We haven't even been able to see half the models we have looked for, if anything is available it's usually a 3-year old CPO, or some totally different brand.