Author Topic: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider  (Read 4444 times)


CmFtns

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2016, 04:08:29 PM »
I wish there were comments on that website... My most enjoyment out of these antimustacian articles is not reading what you guys have to say, but reading what the crazy average internet person has to say.

Anyway this seems like solid advice on how to make that guy money when you invest in his "sure thing" fund.
"the only efficient way to get there is on the front of the wave" -MMM

Aminul

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 01:10:57 PM »
That was satire, right?  Please tell me that was satire. 

Goldielocks

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 05:11:51 PM »
That was so amazingly funny!  Circular logic, yet really short energetic video.

-----------------------------------
Don't borrow for college... that is fools game to pay for 4 years of not earning money.  "Ludicrous"
Don't save for retirement, or rainy day.. instead save to put it into an investment opportunity..
When ready to invest, ...  Don't diversify -- instead "Go all in to ONE thing, and make it a SURE thing.." (Boy, I would like one of those, too, so how to get one??)

Don't invest early -- you can't get your money out.. instead...

The first 100k you earn, no stock picking -- invest in yourself  (which is maybe a direct contradition to the "no college" part?)
--------------------------------------

The only part that to me hints at advice worth taking is to be careful of locking too much away in 401k  (but the better plan is to convert to Roth as you can)...  and to be careful about borrowing for college.  In the USA, too many are gleefully trading their future freedom for the present (college) lifestyle..

StockBeard

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2016, 05:18:06 PM »
Wow. So many wrong things in such a short amount of time.

aperture

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2016, 05:33:34 AM »
In my 20s, I was so naive and dumb, I was easy prey to bullshit hucksters like this wolf. Now I see wolf, and I tell my kids "that is a wolf" hoping they won't fall into the same traps I did. -ap
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TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2016, 12:16:50 PM »
Hmm, is this another Robert Kiyosaki in the making? If the kid actually is a millionaire, he might have had some good luck initially. But that doesn't mean other people can expect to do well by imitating his example.

An excellent strategy produces at least partial success even if it's executed by a complete idiot, or when not all of the component are in place, or when the circumstances aren't favorable. It doesn't depend on luck and is flexible and robust enough to allow you to adjust for the unexpected. There are secondary and fallback options that are well understood, acceptable, and possible to execute late in the engagement.

A good strategy produces at least partial success even when some minor components are missing or completed out of order. It works better when the circumstances are favorable but if circumstances aren't favorable you at least don't end up worse off. It doesn't depend on luck although there's a relationship between synchronization of elements and success. Fallback options exist.

A poor strategy will result in failure unless all components are present and executed in the correct order. It requires favorable circumstances, or luck, or both to avoid defeat. It relies on a great deal of communication and synchronization of elements, and if a component arrives too late or is missing the entire strategy will fail.

A terrible strategy relies on luck and favorable circumstances, and the probability of total loss is higher than the probability of success. It presupposes a level of communication and synchronization between elements that is not physically or logistically possible.
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nr

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2016, 01:02:33 PM »
Holy crap it all makes sense now...just dump all of you money into one "sure thing" investment.  Why didn't I think of that?

zephyr911

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2016, 03:07:42 PM »
After years of reading the craptastic bullshit that rag puts out, I was sure the title of this thread was a joke... thanks for confirming.
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benogs

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2017, 06:07:05 PM »
FYI, Grant Cardone has a net worth somewhere around 100-150 million and climbing.  I believe he is closing on a 86 million dollar property.

His advice definitely isn't for everyone - but certainly has it's advantages in the right people.

There is no single plan to invest in life.

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2017, 06:33:19 PM »
FYI, Grant Cardone has a net worth somewhere around 100-150 million and climbing.  I believe he is closing on a 86 million dollar property.

His advice definitely isn't for everyone - but certainly has it's advantages in the right people.

There is no single plan to invest in life.

People who win major lottery jackpots after years of religious or obsessive play also pass on their investment strategy, which does indeed "work" for a handful of people.

The vast majority of young people fresh out of high school won't get to their first $100k following his advice.
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zephyr911

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2017, 08:16:03 AM »
How do you ever get to "a hundred grand in the bank" if you invest everything you have in yourself?

As many have already noted, there's more than one way to hack life, and for me it's nearly the opposite. I did virtually no targeted self-improvement after the military paid for my bachelor's. My FIRE catalyst was investing in other people (companies) for years, reading about their successes and failures, sharing in the proceeds, and ultimately applying both earnings and learnings to an actively managed investment startup that's providing both market-beating returns and extremely lucrative PT work.

Twenty or even ten years ago, I would have lacked the knowledge to allocate any $$ invested into myself in an efficient or effective fashion.

I just realized this thread is a year old. Well, whatever. LOL
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benogs

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2017, 06:54:16 PM »
FYI, Grant Cardone has a net worth somewhere around 100-150 million and climbing.  I believe he is closing on a 86 million dollar property.

His advice definitely isn't for everyone - but certainly has it's advantages in the right people.

There is no single plan to invest in life.

People who win major lottery jackpots after years of religious or obsessive play also pass on their investment strategy, which does indeed "work" for a handful of people.

The vast majority of young people fresh out of high school won't get to their first $100k following his advice.

Sure, lottery winners can win big - even though most are eventually broke as they don't know how to manage their wealth.

Some people that are ultra frugal are miserable and just have 500k - 1 mil in the bank, without any joy in life.

There are a million examples out there to prove anyone's point.

The reality is, this guy started with a lower income than Mr. Money Mustache, he was earning 30k in sales, with no money in the bank.  He learned how to sell and earn a good income.  Then he learned how to invest.  He is now worth >100 million and climbing.  He has a personal jet, which everyone told him not to buy, except billionaires (as they understand that something like that could build more wealth in the right hands).

My point isn't to defend his strategy to everyone.  It's just to avoid the mocking attitude and judgmental stance.  He has a different strategy, it is by nature much higher in risk and also much higher in reward.  I agree anyone can save a million and retire early.  Also, some will want to build wealth in a different way.  Even Mr. Money Mustache said he would invest in more, but he doesn't want that burden / stress, so he keeps it simple.

I just found it funny that people are calling this guy dumb, when he started earning less than most of the people here and now is worth > $100,000,000.  Instead of laughing at him, I think it's ok to listen and then think about it.  Maybe you disagree - that's fine too.

benogs

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 06:58:39 PM »
How do you ever get to "a hundred grand in the bank" if you invest everything you have in yourself?

As many have already noted, there's more than one way to hack life, and for me it's nearly the opposite. I did virtually no targeted self-improvement after the military paid for my bachelor's. My FIRE catalyst was investing in other people (companies) for years, reading about their successes and failures, sharing in the proceeds, and ultimately applying both earnings and learnings to an actively managed investment startup that's providing both market-beating returns and extremely lucrative PT work.

Twenty or even ten years ago, I would have lacked the knowledge to allocate any $$ invested into myself in an efficient or effective fashion.

I just realized this thread is a year old. Well, whatever. LOL

Agreed.  Multiple paths.  I don't discredit your experience.  I don't we should either discredit Grant Cardone's.  It may be better advice for some people...  If he followed a path of frugality he would probably only be worth 3% of his net worth.  If you look at people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, even Warren Buffet, they all made a big bet on a single thing and invested everything they could into it.  This isn't to say this will work for everyone, it's just one path for some people.

The more conservative path may be to just save a lot and go live on a beach in 5 years.  Everyone gets to chose their own path.

It is an old thread - didn't realize that matter.

StockBeard

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2017, 01:52:56 AM »
I just found it funny that people are calling this guy dumb, when he started earning less than most of the people here and now is worth > $100,000,000.  Instead of laughing at him, I think it's ok to listen and then think about it.  Maybe you disagree - that's fine too.
There's nothing on the site that warns people that the advice here is non conventional and will not work in 99% of the cases. How many people do you know who are worth $100,000,000 after following this guy's advice?

I know hundreds of people on this forum who are millionaires after following MMM's advice.

Statistically, everyone should laugh at the advice given in that video. For their own good. I don't think people are calling him dumb. He's probably very clever, on the contrary. The advice he gives, however, does not apply to the general audience of business insider. And there should be proper warning on the site about this, but none of that is to be found. That makes the whole thing very ridiculous. That's it, don't read more than that in people's reaction.

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2017, 09:31:41 AM »
FYI, Grant Cardone has a net worth somewhere around 100-150 million and climbing.  I believe he is closing on a 86 million dollar property.

His advice definitely isn't for everyone - but certainly has it's advantages in the right people.

There is no single plan to invest in life.

People who win major lottery jackpots after years of religious or obsessive play also pass on their investment strategy, which does indeed "work" for a handful of people.

The vast majority of young people fresh out of high school won't get to their first $100k following his advice.

Sure, lottery winners can win big - even though most are eventually broke as they don't know how to manage their wealth.

Some people that are ultra frugal are miserable and just have 500k - 1 mil in the bank, without any joy in life.

There are a million examples out there to prove anyone's point.

The reality is, this guy started with a lower income than Mr. Money Mustache, he was earning 30k in sales, with no money in the bank.  He learned how to sell and earn a good income.  Then he learned how to invest.  He is now worth >100 million and climbing.  He has a personal jet, which everyone told him not to buy, except billionaires (as they understand that something like that could build more wealth in the right hands).

My point isn't to defend his strategy to everyone.  It's just to avoid the mocking attitude and judgmental stance.  He has a different strategy, it is by nature much higher in risk and also much higher in reward.  I agree anyone can save a million and retire early.  Also, some will want to build wealth in a different way.  Even Mr. Money Mustache said he would invest in more, but he doesn't want that burden / stress, so he keeps it simple.

I just found it funny that people are calling this guy dumb, when he started earning less than most of the people here and now is worth > $100,000,000.  Instead of laughing at him, I think it's ok to listen and then think about it.  Maybe you disagree - that's fine too.

According to this logic, though, the 6000 calories a day Michael Phelps ate when he was at the peak of his competition career represents a reasonable and viable diet for humans.

I get that you're keen on Grant Cardone, and I respect that. However, his advice works for one person-- Grant Cardone-- and for people who, like him, have some exceptional skills and a similar starting environment and community. His investment strategy works extremely well for a person with his skills and talents, in his specific situation. But it is not even a little bit forgiving of error or tolerant of accident. That makes it a weak strategy overall.

Here's how to compare strategies. An "excellent" one can be implemented successfully to obtain good results even with imperfect conditions, some bad luck, and minor errors in implementation. It is tolerant of differences in capability, it is low risk, and if it does not bring immediate success the implementer will still see good or at least better-than-average results in the long term. The circumstances under which it can lead to utter disaster are very few, and those circumstances tend to be the sort of thing that will wipe out almost *any* person.

A "good" strategy works well and produces good results when the conditions are favorable, but the risk level is low enough that if the conditions become unfavorable the implementer does not put himself at risk of a complete disaster. It is flexible enough to survive the occasional mistake, but it still requires attention to detail.

A "poor" strategy is essentially the process of taking advantage of an optimal or near-optimal situation. It relies heavily on innate talent, the special skills of the individual, and luck. When the conditions are not optimal, or when the individual trying to implement the strategy lacks key skills, health, or talents, or if the implementer makes even a minor mistake or error in judgement, the strategy not only fails but renders the implementer worse off than before. When the conditions are perfect and the right person is in the right place at the right time, the implementer is very successful. An example of a poor investment strategy is trying to get rich through multi-level marketing. There are a select few who make a killing by getting in on the ground floor, selling big, and creating a large and productive down-line. The rest earn very little and many actually lose money.

That's what I mean when I say Grant Cardone presented a poor strategy. I'm fully aware of his achievements, and he was able to achieve a great deal through his approach. It created more of a return for him than an excellent but conservative strategy would have done. But in terms of being a viable approach for the vast majority of people it's a poor strategy overall. This, I think, is what most of the people in this thread are trying to say. They're not making fun of Grant Cardone-- he should be praised for making the best possible results given a poor strategy. They're mocking Business Insider for not being able to tell the difference between a poor strategy and an excellent one.
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panda

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benogs

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Re: Solid Financial Advice from Business Insider
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2017, 10:04:58 AM »
FYI, Grant Cardone has a net worth somewhere around 100-150 million and climbing.  I believe he is closing on a 86 million dollar property.

His advice definitely isn't for everyone - but certainly has it's advantages in the right people.

There is no single plan to invest in life.

People who win major lottery jackpots after years of religious or obsessive play also pass on their investment strategy, which does indeed "work" for a handful of people.

The vast majority of young people fresh out of high school won't get to their first $100k following his advice.

Sure, lottery winners can win big - even though most are eventually broke as they don't know how to manage their wealth.

Some people that are ultra frugal are miserable and just have 500k - 1 mil in the bank, without any joy in life.

There are a million examples out there to prove anyone's point.

The reality is, this guy started with a lower income than Mr. Money Mustache, he was earning 30k in sales, with no money in the bank.  He learned how to sell and earn a good income.  Then he learned how to invest.  He is now worth >100 million and climbing.  He has a personal jet, which everyone told him not to buy, except billionaires (as they understand that something like that could build more wealth in the right hands).

My point isn't to defend his strategy to everyone.  It's just to avoid the mocking attitude and judgmental stance.  He has a different strategy, it is by nature much higher in risk and also much higher in reward.  I agree anyone can save a million and retire early.  Also, some will want to build wealth in a different way.  Even Mr. Money Mustache said he would invest in more, but he doesn't want that burden / stress, so he keeps it simple.

I just found it funny that people are calling this guy dumb, when he started earning less than most of the people here and now is worth > $100,000,000.  Instead of laughing at him, I think it's ok to listen and then think about it.  Maybe you disagree - that's fine too.

According to this logic, though, the 6000 calories a day Michael Phelps ate when he was at the peak of his competition career represents a reasonable and viable diet for humans.

I get that you're keen on Grant Cardone, and I respect that. However, his advice works for one person-- Grant Cardone-- and for people who, like him, have some exceptional skills and a similar starting environment and community. His investment strategy works extremely well for a person with his skills and talents, in his specific situation. But it is not even a little bit forgiving of error or tolerant of accident. That makes it a weak strategy overall.

Here's how to compare strategies. An "excellent" one can be implemented successfully to obtain good results even with imperfect conditions, some bad luck, and minor errors in implementation. It is tolerant of differences in capability, it is low risk, and if it does not bring immediate success the implementer will still see good or at least better-than-average results in the long term. The circumstances under which it can lead to utter disaster are very few, and those circumstances tend to be the sort of thing that will wipe out almost *any* person.

A "good" strategy works well and produces good results when the conditions are favorable, but the risk level is low enough that if the conditions become unfavorable the implementer does not put himself at risk of a complete disaster. It is flexible enough to survive the occasional mistake, but it still requires attention to detail.

A "poor" strategy is essentially the process of taking advantage of an optimal or near-optimal situation. It relies heavily on innate talent, the special skills of the individual, and luck. When the conditions are not optimal, or when the individual trying to implement the strategy lacks key skills, health, or talents, or if the implementer makes even a minor mistake or error in judgement, the strategy not only fails but renders the implementer worse off than before. When the conditions are perfect and the right person is in the right place at the right time, the implementer is very successful. An example of a poor investment strategy is trying to get rich through multi-level marketing. There are a select few who make a killing by getting in on the ground floor, selling big, and creating a large and productive down-line. The rest earn very little and many actually lose money.

That's what I mean when I say Grant Cardone presented a poor strategy. I'm fully aware of his achievements, and he was able to achieve a great deal through his approach. It created more of a return for him than an excellent but conservative strategy would have done. But in terms of being a viable approach for the vast majority of people it's a poor strategy overall. This, I think, is what most of the people in this thread are trying to say. They're not making fun of Grant Cardone-- he should be praised for making the best possible results given a poor strategy. They're mocking Business Insider for not being able to tell the difference between a poor strategy and an excellent one.

I agree with your points.  His advice is not for everyone, it's more for the 5-10% with unique skill sets.  I like Grant Cardone, but I also like MMM and anyone else who can give me a good new perspective and make me think.  I am "keen" on those who can teach me and make me better.

Isn't that the point though, certain people have certain skill sets and you have to adapt your strategy to that.  Warren Buffet's actual strategy was huge bets in single companies - he took his own unique skill set and applied it to picking the best companies.  He didn't just buy index funds - he does recommend that as general advice for people without expertise.

I think you're right on the idea that if you're designing advice that applies to every person, you need to assume no unique skill sets.  It's a path to wealth for everyone.

The other side is if you look at Elon Musk, if he took advice like this he would have just stopped making big bets after he made his multiple millions early on.  No Paypal, no Tesla, no Space X, etc.  Those were all huge hundreds of millions of dollar bets turned into billions. 

Which is what I think Cardone is actually pushing people for.  Maximize your income (don't think to make 50k, try to make 100k, 150k etc - typically people can figure out things when they start thinking like that).  Next, take the income you earn and invest it in something you're good at (possibly real estate for example... there are many advantages to real estate if one knows what they are doing, 100% tax avoidance on gains when transferring to other properties, all kinds of tax advantages that could save you 20-30% off your income in various ways, chances to gain huge on purchases with the right skills / knowledge).  But again, these are skill based and by nature risky - but they have higher reward.

I agree with all you said, this isn't to discredit anyone's path - but instead to just realize that laughing and mocking a guy, saying his advice is discredited isn't the full story.  The reality is that it's great advice for the right investors and poor advice for the majority.  But things in life often aren't black and white.  GOOD ADVICE.  BAD ADVICE.  Things are often more complicated and sophisticated.

The reality is, any investing strategy is better than what 80-90% of people do.  The status quo is not good.  And MMM did capture that in this blog which makes him great for questioning what everyone is doing and if it's wise.