Author Topic: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?  (Read 6033 times)

Slee_stack

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Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« on: March 01, 2018, 09:20:00 AM »
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/work-relationships/2018/02/28/should-nonsmokers-get-extra-vacation-days-smoke-breaks/381878002/

An interesting idea that may or may not be funny or shameful, but I'll post it here.

As a person who believes more in 'output' than hours,  I'd probably lean to say ing that NO, non-smokers should not get extra time off.

However, all else equal....what would be your argument for granting (or not) non-smokers more time off?



mm1970

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2018, 09:37:38 AM »
Eh I don't know.  I think you are probably splitting hairs.  There's so much variability among workers, industries.

In theory,  hourly employees get their breaks and shouldn't go beyond those.  So it's "fair".  I say in theory, because I don't know in reality how closely that is monitored.

For salaried folks, there's even more variation because you've got people with kids, people who get sick more, people who are just more productive.  Anything that uses "time off" to differentiate people seems like a bad idea.

I'm not for punishing people I guess.  On one hand "Mary's more efficient, she should be able to work less!" But does Mary get paid more?  She should.

Eh.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2018, 09:41:11 AM »
Eh I don't know.  I think you are probably splitting hairs.  There's so much variability among workers, industries.

In theory,  hourly employees get their breaks and shouldn't go beyond those.  So it's "fair".  I say in theory, because I don't know in reality how closely that is monitored.

For salaried folks, there's even more variation because you've got people with kids, people who get sick more, people who are just more productive.  Anything that uses "time off" to differentiate people seems like a bad idea.

I'm not for punishing people I guess.  On one hand "Mary's more efficient, she should be able to work less!" But does Mary get paid more?  She should.

Eh.

I agree, it is basically impossible to judge people unless you track every minute and output unit.

I've known smokers who code and take breaks every. single. hour. but they are some of the best coders i've seen. They use those breaks to clear their mind, think, and plan.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2018, 02:35:10 PM »
Aside from the time off, I have seen more than one company that charges more for health insurance if you smoke. That I think is fair (within reason) - if you smoke, you're actively putting harmful substances into your body and statistically will use more medical care.

Rubic

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2018, 03:53:20 PM »
Aside from the time off, I have seen more than one company that charges more for health insurance if you smoke. That I think is fair (within reason) - if you smoke, you're actively putting harmful substances into your body and statistically will use more medical care.

Maybe a 9% surcharge?  Especially if it would encourage employees to quit.

"Of every $10 spent on healthcare in the U.S., almost 90 cents is due to smoking."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-healthcare-costs-smoking/cigarette-smoking-costs-weigh-heavily-on-the-healthcare-system-idUSKBN0JX2BE20141219

FINate

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2018, 04:17:55 PM »
I wouldn't have a problem with it in principle, but seems unwieldy to implement in practice. What if someone only smokes before/after hours and/or on official breaks? Or once in a while? Also, all workers have little time leaks throughout the day: coffee break that goes a bit too long, Candy Crush on the toilet, short walk to clear mind, quick trip to pharmacy. So be careful what you wish for, in exchange for a few extra days you may end up with busy-body managers with eagle eyes and stopwatches on the lookout  for unsanctioned breaks. I'd rather not be micromanaged in that way.

As far as incentives to quit smoking, what works better, penalties or rewards? The costs are the same, just framed differently. I can't remember, but I think rewards work better. So instead of a surcharge for smokers have a discount for nonsmokers.

marty998

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 12:09:23 AM »
Eh I don't know.  I think you are probably splitting hairs.  There's so much variability among workers, industries.

In theory,  hourly employees get their breaks and shouldn't go beyond those.  So it's "fair".  I say in theory, because I don't know in reality how closely that is monitored.

For salaried folks, there's even more variation because you've got people with kids, people who get sick more, people who are just more productive.  Anything that uses "time off" to differentiate people seems like a bad idea.

I'm not for punishing people I guess.  On one hand "Mary's more efficient, she should be able to work less!" But does Mary get paid more?  She should.

Eh.

I agree, it is basically impossible to judge people unless you track every minute and output unit.

I've known smokers who code and take breaks every. single. hour. but they are some of the best coders i've seen. They use those breaks to clear their mind, think, and plan.

Would that bolded bit not be considered working too?

Not a smoker, but I would suggest "thinking and planning" about work is working...

channtheman

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 02:03:24 AM »
My CW and I were just discussing this a few hours ago (we're night shift nurses).  We estimated that the smokers at our hospital probably take 30-60 minutes worth of extra breaks per 12 hour shift.  We are at the hospital for 12.5 hours but have an unpaid lunch of 30 minutes. 

Over the course of a year that is appx. anywhere from 6-13 twelve hour shifts worth of extra time they get for free.  We were pretty surprised by how much time that added up to.  Our conversation started with him saying he heard that smokers use up 1 weeks worth of extra vacation time with all their breaks.

Rubic

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 03:59:35 AM »
As far as incentives to quit smoking, what works better, penalties or rewards? The costs are the same, just framed differently. I can't remember, but I think rewards work better. So instead of a surcharge for smokers have a discount for nonsmokers.

In this particular instance I think the framing works better if it's
seen as a cost, especially when added to the purchase costs
of cigarettes.

Anecdote: My father quit after 20+ years due to peer pressure
while working for a health care company.  (Also my smoker
grandfather died of lung cancer.)

 

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 08:31:45 AM »
I wouldn't have a problem with it in principle, but seems unwieldy to implement in practice. What if someone only smokes before/after hours and/or on official breaks? Or once in a while? Also, all workers have little time leaks throughout the day: coffee break that goes a bit too long, Candy Crush on the toilet, short walk to clear mind, quick trip to pharmacy. So be careful what you wish for, in exchange for a few extra days you may end up with busy-body managers with eagle eyes and stopwatches on the lookout  for unsanctioned breaks. I'd rather not be micromanaged in that way.

As far as incentives to quit smoking, what works better, penalties or rewards? The costs are the same, just framed differently. I can't remember, but I think rewards work better. So instead of a surcharge for smokers have a discount for nonsmokers.

If you smoke after hours, or just occasionally, you're still smoking. It's still doing harm, just maybe not as much if you're smoking a pack a day.

Some people respond better to the incentive, some better to the penalty. It makes sense to provide both to try to get everyone.

FINate

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 09:35:58 AM »
I don't smoke, just wondering about the practicalities of a policy. I tend to respond to penalties by digging my heels in and respond better to incentives. Guess everyone is different.

Gets me thinking, maybe state governments should try a generous buy back for assault rifles (as opposed to just making more laws). Would require some careful rules to prevent abuses, like people systematically profiting by buying cheap and selling to the state. But, I wonder how many people would sell if they could get a better than average price for it.

mudphud

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 09:47:44 AM »
I don't think this idea is practical because businesses generally have a hard time quantifying individual worker productivity.  Without knowing how much this it is hard to figure out how much time other workers should get. 

Although, my emotional, gut response is that non-smokers should be given extra time off.  Back in high school I worked an 8 hr shift as a short order cook in a restaurant 3 nights a week and I got one guaranteed 30 minute break each night so I could have dinner.  Close to 75% of the back of house staff smoked so they took a break every hour to light up while the non-smokers kept working.  Eventually we decided to take "soda breaks," where we just sat down for 5 minutes and drank a coke.  Eventually our manager called us out and we told him why we were doing it.  After that he cracked down on people taking smoke breaks during the busy hours.

acroy

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 10:29:39 AM »
If I was a business owner I'd do it. Great way to encourage healthy lifestyle + (hopefully) cut healthcare costs + get good press + employee good vibes.

And us overworked Americans never use our vaca anyway, so it would actually be zero cost for me the fatcat business owner ;)

MgoSam

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2018, 10:32:12 AM »
As a business owner I don't know how I would enforce it without pissing off the smokers.

That said I think that it could be a great way to encourage smokers to quit and for non-smokers to stay that way. I'm more a fan of "Nudges" than more drastic measures.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 01:07:46 PM »
I don't smoke, just wondering about the practicalities of a policy. I tend to respond to penalties by digging my heels in and respond better to incentives. Guess everyone is different.

Gets me thinking, maybe state governments should try a generous buy back for assault rifles (as opposed to just making more laws). Would require some careful rules to prevent abuses, like people systematically profiting by buying cheap and selling to the state. But, I wonder how many people would sell if they could get a better than average price for it.

At the risk of derailing this thread... you may be onto something.
Step 1: rework gun laws to make it much harder to buy a gun
Step 2: offer to buy guns from people, defined time period, yadda yadda.
Step 3: end up with many fewer guns.

Wait, didn't Australia do this a couple decades ago?

FIRE Artist

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 01:11:12 PM »
As a business owner I don't know how I would enforce it without pissing off the smokers.

That said I think that it could be a great way to encourage smokers to quit and for non-smokers to stay that way. I'm more a fan of "Nudges" than more drastic measures.

This, I think it would also be a good way to turn smokers into people who lie about taking smoke/vape breaks. 

Rural

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 07:30:16 PM »
You know, I don't know anyone who smokes, and my campus is completely tobacco-free. This, in the Deep South, in an area where a lot of tobacco is grown. The world has certainly changed in my lifetime.

driftwood

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2018, 04:36:40 AM »
If you go down that road... then why not give people who eat healthier more vacation days?  How about those who don't drink alcohol? How about drive safer?  How about don't get pregnant?  It would be pretty hard to draw a line and put some people and some habits on the penalize side of it.

I honestly would love if most jobs switched to paying by productivity.  Then you can have any habits you want... as long as you are productive.  You get paid for what you do.  For all the other time you spend doing other things and not producing anything, you don't get paid.  You can do what you want with your time.

I personally think 'sick' days are stupid. Pay me for the days I work.  Don't pay me for the days I don't work.

Dicey

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 05:45:46 AM »
I've known smokers who code and take breaks every. single. hour. but they are some of the best coders i've seen. They use those breaks to clear their mind, think, and plan.
So sad for them that they can't figure out how to clear their minds, think, and plan without killing their lungs, not to mention the secondhand smoke and waste they leave for others to deal with, once their minds are "cleared". Ugh.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 01:04:41 PM »
If you go down that road... then why not give people who eat healthier more vacation days?  How about those who don't drink alcohol? How about drive safer?  How about don't get pregnant?  It would be pretty hard to draw a line and put some people and some habits on the penalize side of it.

I honestly would love if most jobs switched to paying by productivity.  Then you can have any habits you want... as long as you are productive.  You get paid for what you do.  For all the other time you spend doing other things and not producing anything, you don't get paid.  You can do what you want with your time.

I personally think 'sick' days are stupid. Pay me for the days I work.  Don't pay me for the days I don't work.

OK, what about the person who has a congenital defect and is frequently seriously ill? (not their fault)
What about parents who have kids who are sick?
What about women who have children (unless you want the human race to be extinct in within 100 years)?
What people who have accidents and are seriously injured, and no longer able to work? (accidents can be your fault, or not)

For the record, there are plenty of jobs that "pay by productivity". Any job that doesn't have paid time off. How has that worked out for individuals and society?

nick663

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 04:45:03 PM »
My CW and I were just discussing this a few hours ago (we're night shift nurses).  We estimated that the smokers at our hospital probably take 30-60 minutes worth of extra breaks per 12 hour shift.  We are at the hospital for 12.5 hours but have an unpaid lunch of 30 minutes. 

Over the course of a year that is appx. anywhere from 6-13 twelve hour shifts worth of extra time they get for free.  We were pretty surprised by how much time that added up to.  Our conversation started with him saying he heard that smokers use up 1 weeks worth of extra vacation time with all their breaks.
How many hours do you spend on non-productive conversations with coworkers though? :-P

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2018, 05:45:07 PM »
Wait, do people still smoke? Are they millionaires?

MayDay

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 08:18:03 PM »
Australia has a thing called a smoking. It's a "smoking break" for the non smokers.

I'd just encourage businesses with hourly employees to enforce whatever schedule try currently have. That is the real issue. If they shut down the extra breaks for smokers and monitor break lengths, the problem is taken care of.

If worked hourly and it sucks IMO. You can't run an errand over lunch because you have to be back on time. If you need the toilet not at break time you are in a rush in case the supervisor comes by and you aren't there.

But from the other side (engineer working with hourly operators) it is fucking ridiculous that the 10 minutes break and 30 minutes lunch is actually almost double between shutting down early and starting up late. Smoker or not. The smokers just don't eat on my lines :). Our operators also aren't working so fast/hard that they can't have a snack while working, run to the bathroom, etc. The only rule they really enforce is no phones out, and that is a safety thing.

But I'm not the supervisor so not my problem to solve.

driftwood

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2018, 12:56:15 AM »
If you go down that road... then why not give people who eat healthier more vacation days?  How about those who don't drink alcohol? How about drive safer?  How about don't get pregnant?  It would be pretty hard to draw a line and put some people and some habits on the penalize side of it.

I honestly would love if most jobs switched to paying by productivity.  Then you can have any habits you want... as long as you are productive.  You get paid for what you do.  For all the other time you spend doing other things and not producing anything, you don't get paid.  You can do what you want with your time.

I personally think 'sick' days are stupid. Pay me for the days I work.  Don't pay me for the days I don't work.

OK, what about the person who has a congenital defect and is frequently seriously ill? (not their fault)
What about parents who have kids who are sick?
What about women who have children (unless you want the human race to be extinct in within 100 years)?
What people who have accidents and are seriously injured, and no longer able to work? (accidents can be your fault, or not)

For the record, there are plenty of jobs that "pay by productivity". Any job that doesn't have paid time off. How has that worked out for individuals and society?

I think we could use insurance to cover most of the situations you mention.  Whether someone has a situation that prevents them from working and it's their fault, or not their fault, is the employer really on the hook to pay them when they're not working?  Where does that pay come from?  Or do we just assume all these companies are 'rich' so they should give us money?

What if I'm a self-employed, sole employee at my company...then I get pregnant, need some time off near/after the birth...who pays me to not work?  Or do I have to accept that for the time I don't work, I won't be paid?
What if I'm in a small company with two employees and I have a health condition that prevents me from working for months... who pays me to not work then?  Basically the second employee would have to bring in enough profit to cover both their pay and mine.  Yay for me, shit for them.
Three employee company?  Four?  At what point is it ok for someone unable to work to collect a paycheck (not an insurance payment) funded by the other workers?  This isn't economically feasible. 

I'd like to see it more common that you can take 'sick' days, but they're unpaid.  What if I work all year and I earn 5 sick days... so I've pretty much earned 370 days of pay but only get paid 365 days worth. If I don't use those days I'm losing pay I earned.  With the way people are today, some folks can't afford a system like that.  Save money?  Have an emergency fund?  Put extra food in the pantry today so that I can eat next week even if I don't have a paycheck?! Madness I say! You can't expect me to earn a living, companies owe me a paycheck for not working!

That being said, because our system is jacked up, I will always take EVERY SINGLE sick day that I earned, whether or not I need them.  I earned those days worth of pay, so I will damn sure collect those days worth of pay. 

Livethedream

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
I like this option much more. Local utility company offers a smoke free health incentive for employees who donít smoke. I canít remember the exact amount but I want to say it was around $500.

http://spd.mypgebenefits.com/mat/pge-3c2-health-wellness-program-eds-mgmt-web-h.html

MrsTuxedocat

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2018, 07:53:41 PM »
At my last workplace, there were many smokers and they basically took a paid 10 minute break 4-5 times a day. It was super annoying. I don't know how you could enforce this policy though...

Just Joe

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2018, 09:05:10 AM »
Way back when I was in the military us non-smokers learned to take a "smoke break" just like the smokers or we'd get assignments more often. When I left the service I swear I was craving a smoke a few times early on. I've never been a smoker.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2018, 09:17:17 AM »
If you go down that road... then why not give people who eat healthier more vacation days?  How about those who don't drink alcohol? How about drive safer?  How about don't get pregnant?  It would be pretty hard to draw a line and put some people and some habits on the penalize side of it.

I honestly would love if most jobs switched to paying by productivity.  Then you can have any habits you want... as long as you are productive.  You get paid for what you do.  For all the other time you spend doing other things and not producing anything, you don't get paid.  You can do what you want with your time.

I personally think 'sick' days are stupid. Pay me for the days I work.  Don't pay me for the days I don't work.

OK, what about the person who has a congenital defect and is frequently seriously ill? (not their fault)
What about parents who have kids who are sick?
What about women who have children (unless you want the human race to be extinct in within 100 years)?
What people who have accidents and are seriously injured, and no longer able to work? (accidents can be your fault, or not)

For the record, there are plenty of jobs that "pay by productivity". Any job that doesn't have paid time off. How has that worked out for individuals and society?

I think we could use insurance to cover most of the situations you mention.  Whether someone has a situation that prevents them from working and it's their fault, or not their fault, is the employer really on the hook to pay them when they're not working?  Where does that pay come from?  Or do we just assume all these companies are 'rich' so they should give us money?

What if I'm a self-employed, sole employee at my company...then I get pregnant, need some time off near/after the birth...who pays me to not work?  Or do I have to accept that for the time I don't work, I won't be paid?
What if I'm in a small company with two employees and I have a health condition that prevents me from working for months... who pays me to not work then?  Basically the second employee would have to bring in enough profit to cover both their pay and mine.  Yay for me, shit for them.
Three employee company?  Four?  At what point is it ok for someone unable to work to collect a paycheck (not an insurance payment) funded by the other workers?  This isn't economically feasible. 

I'd like to see it more common that you can take 'sick' days, but they're unpaid.  What if I work all year and I earn 5 sick days... so I've pretty much earned 370 days of pay but only get paid 365 days worth. If I don't use those days I'm losing pay I earned.  With the way people are today, some folks can't afford a system like that.  Save money?  Have an emergency fund?  Put extra food in the pantry today so that I can eat next week even if I don't have a paycheck?! Madness I say! You can't expect me to earn a living, companies owe me a paycheck for not working!

That being said, because our system is jacked up, I will always take EVERY SINGLE sick day that I earned, whether or not I need them.  I earned those days worth of pay, so I will damn sure collect those days worth of pay.

Driftwood, you missed my point. For a lot of people, they're paid hourly and do not get paid sick time. So if they get sick, they lose pay. When they're already struggling to pay rent and bills, getting sick and missing work can be financially devastating. It is one of the many factors keeping people in poverty, or pushing them into it in the first place. For those who are self employed, they are at risk as well. The US has very little safety net in place overall. Paid sick leave helps.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 09:29:48 AM »
My employer won't hire smokers, so it's kind of moot (except for old timers grandfathered in).

That being said, we have all-encompassing PTO and 300-hour year end rollover, so theoretically, the nonsmokers end up with more days to take off when they aren't sick. This seems like a pretty fair solution to me.

driftwood

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 11:13:01 AM »
If you go down that road... then why not give people who eat healthier more vacation days?  How about those who don't drink alcohol? How about drive safer?  How about don't get pregnant?  It would be pretty hard to draw a line and put some people and some habits on the penalize side of it.

I honestly would love if most jobs switched to paying by productivity.  Then you can have any habits you want... as long as you are productive.  You get paid for what you do.  For all the other time you spend doing other things and not producing anything, you don't get paid.  You can do what you want with your time.

I personally think 'sick' days are stupid. Pay me for the days I work.  Don't pay me for the days I don't work.

OK, what about the person who has a congenital defect and is frequently seriously ill? (not their fault)
What about parents who have kids who are sick?
What about women who have children (unless you want the human race to be extinct in within 100 years)?
What people who have accidents and are seriously injured, and no longer able to work? (accidents can be your fault, or not)

For the record, there are plenty of jobs that "pay by productivity". Any job that doesn't have paid time off. How has that worked out for individuals and society?

I think we could use insurance to cover most of the situations you mention.  Whether someone has a situation that prevents them from working and it's their fault, or not their fault, is the employer really on the hook to pay them when they're not working?  Where does that pay come from?  Or do we just assume all these companies are 'rich' so they should give us money?

What if I'm a self-employed, sole employee at my company...then I get pregnant, need some time off near/after the birth...who pays me to not work?  Or do I have to accept that for the time I don't work, I won't be paid?
What if I'm in a small company with two employees and I have a health condition that prevents me from working for months... who pays me to not work then?  Basically the second employee would have to bring in enough profit to cover both their pay and mine.  Yay for me, shit for them.
Three employee company?  Four?  At what point is it ok for someone unable to work to collect a paycheck (not an insurance payment) funded by the other workers?  This isn't economically feasible. 

I'd like to see it more common that you can take 'sick' days, but they're unpaid.  What if I work all year and I earn 5 sick days... so I've pretty much earned 370 days of pay but only get paid 365 days worth. If I don't use those days I'm losing pay I earned.  With the way people are today, some folks can't afford a system like that.  Save money?  Have an emergency fund?  Put extra food in the pantry today so that I can eat next week even if I don't have a paycheck?! Madness I say! You can't expect me to earn a living, companies owe me a paycheck for not working!

That being said, because our system is jacked up, I will always take EVERY SINGLE sick day that I earned, whether or not I need them.  I earned those days worth of pay, so I will damn sure collect those days worth of pay.

Driftwood, you missed my point. For a lot of people, they're paid hourly and do not get paid sick time. So if they get sick, they lose pay. When they're already struggling to pay rent and bills, getting sick and missing work can be financially devastating. It is one of the many factors keeping people in poverty, or pushing them into it in the first place. For those who are self employed, they are at risk as well. The US has very little safety net in place overall. Paid sick leave helps.

I understand that it helps.  What I dislike is when the people receiving the benefit aren't the ones paying for it.  If you earn sick leave throughout the year, that's fine, but those who don't use their sick leave should get it paid back to them at the end of the year.

Jouer

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 02:54:39 PM »
At my last workplace, there were many smokers and they basically took a paid 10 minute break 4-5 times a day. It was super annoying. I don't know how you could enforce this policy though...

Would it blow your mind to know that I walk my dog during the work day? Any time I am stuck trying to figure something out, I grab the leash and me and my dog go figure it out.

Toad

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2018, 07:22:42 PM »
That being said, we have all-encompassing PTO and 300-hour year end rollover

300-hour rollover WHAT!  I am working for the wrong company...that is nearly 2 months you can rollover...we don't get any rollover.  Even at my old company they maxed you out at like 160 hours rollover (and that was only after you had been working there for 20 years).

More on topic I don't particularly feel the need to get more vacation as a non-smoker.  The smoker is already punishing themselves enough by reducing their lifespan.  Really there is only one person in my office that smokes, and he puts his time in and gets shit done.
 However, it could be used as a motivator to help people stop smoking...not sure where something like that would fall under discrimination though since you are singling out a specific group.

My company is pretty lax with hours...get your shit done and beyond that they don't really pay much attention.  What DOES annoy me though is the people that get to work AFTER me every day and leave BEFORE me every day.  Seriously...I started looking at my watch just to see what their typical workdays are...they are lucky if they get 7 hours in the office each day (including lunch).  Now THAT annoys me.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2018, 09:08:34 PM »
My CW and I were just discussing this a few hours ago (we're night shift nurses).  [...]  We were pretty surprised by how much time that added up to.  Our conversation started with him saying he heard that smokers use up 1 weeks worth of extra vacation time with all their breaks.
Now add up the time you or your colleagues spend gossipping, complaining about the doctors, surfing Facebook, taking longer than strictly needed in the toilet, and talking about what happened on the reality tv show last night... :)

Most people's work is mostly fucking around unproductively. I wouldn't pick on the smokers.

*cue people telling us how they go hard 60 hours a week, it's just everyone else who's a slacker*

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2018, 01:27:42 PM »
I understand that it helps.  What I dislike is when the people receiving the benefit aren't the ones paying for it.  If you earn sick leave throughout the year, that's fine, but those who don't use their sick leave should get it paid back to them at the end of the year.

Ah. Yes, I get it. My sick leave is use it or lose it as well. Either pay it out or roll it forward.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2018, 01:31:41 PM »
My company is pretty lax with hours...get your shit done and beyond that they don't really pay much attention.  What DOES annoy me though is the people that get to work AFTER me every day and leave BEFORE me every day.  Seriously...I started looking at my watch just to see what their typical workdays are...they are lucky if they get 7 hours in the office each day (including lunch).  Now THAT annoys me.

Are they getting their work done? I am capable of being 1.5-2x faster than many of my coworkers. Should I be punished as a result? I'd rather go home.

Toad

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2018, 05:35:32 PM »
Are they getting their work done? I am capable of being 1.5-2x faster than many of my coworkers. Should I be punished as a result? I'd rather go home.

No argument from me on this point...I'm a believer in get your shit done beyond that who cares as well...but no...the subjects of my annoyance in this case do not get their shit done.  Myself and several other co-workers consistently step in to help these people out to meet their project deadlines.

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 06:33:34 AM »
*cue people telling us how they go hard 60 hours a week, it's just everyone else who's a slacker*

Today is Wednesday. I've done (generously) three hours of work so far this week.

In my defense, I'm waiting for other people to get shit back to me so I can revise and get it out the door.

GuitarStv

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2018, 07:51:15 AM »
Way back when I was in the military us non-smokers learned to take a "smoke break" just like the smokers or we'd get assignments more often.

This is kinda my idea.  If you're concerned that smokers are taking several 10 minute breaks a day, why not take several 10 minute breaks a day of your own?  You could go outside with the guys smoking, take a 10 minute dump, hide under your desk for 10 minues, etc.  I've been working for 19 years, and never seen a job where everyone was productive all of the time.

Just Joe

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2018, 08:35:10 AM »
Oh yeah - we had a couple of smokers that had it down to a science. They'd go smoke, wait for the assignments to get handed out and then once everyone was gone these guys would reappear and hang around the shop or get lost for an hour or two. It caught up with them after everyone else realized that - at least for a while - the smokers were being rewarded for being scarce. Then the rebalance came.... (cue the music of doom)

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2018, 12:24:21 PM »
Are they getting their work done? I am capable of being 1.5-2x faster than many of my coworkers. Should I be punished as a result? I'd rather go home.

No argument from me on this point...I'm a believer in get your shit done beyond that who cares as well...but no...the subjects of my annoyance in this case do not get their shit done.  Myself and several other co-workers consistently step in to help these people out to meet their project deadlines.

Don't? If they're not getting their work done and it's reasonably their fault, it won't help to cover for them. I get it, sometimes it just isn't going to happen otherwise and its fair to pull in other people, but if that's not the case...

Toad

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2018, 08:21:59 PM »
Are they getting their work done? I am capable of being 1.5-2x faster than many of my coworkers. Should I be punished as a result? I'd rather go home.

No argument from me on this point...I'm a believer in get your shit done beyond that who cares as well...but no...the subjects of my annoyance in this case do not get their shit done.  Myself and several other co-workers consistently step in to help these people out to meet their project deadlines.

Don't? If they're not getting their work done and it's reasonably their fault, it won't help to cover for them. I get it, sometimes it just isn't going to happen otherwise and its fair to pull in other people, but if that's not the case...

Again...don't really disagree with you, but it isn't really black and white.  I work in a service industry, so if the company I work for provides work that is unsatisfactory it impacts the company as a whole.  We provide a fairly niche service for a relatively small group of clients.  If one of our clients drops us, my job becomes at risk regardless of who was responsible.

brookebcollin

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 01:07:08 AM »
I do agree that Output is more important than working hours.
We can not decide the vacation period of the employees based on smoking but their performance.
In another side, smokers should be fined strongly if they affect others's health.

Sibley

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Re: Should Non-Smokers get 6 Extra Vacation Days?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 01:25:25 PM »
Are they getting their work done? I am capable of being 1.5-2x faster than many of my coworkers. Should I be punished as a result? I'd rather go home.

No argument from me on this point...I'm a believer in get your shit done beyond that who cares as well...but no...the subjects of my annoyance in this case do not get their shit done.  Myself and several other co-workers consistently step in to help these people out to meet their project deadlines.

Don't? If they're not getting their work done and it's reasonably their fault, it won't help to cover for them. I get it, sometimes it just isn't going to happen otherwise and its fair to pull in other people, but if that's not the case...

Again...don't really disagree with you, but it isn't really black and white.  I work in a service industry, so if the company I work for provides work that is unsatisfactory it impacts the company as a whole.  We provide a fairly niche service for a relatively small group of clients.  If one of our clients drops us, my job becomes at risk regardless of who was responsible.

Ugh, that's the worst. Best you can do is make sure mgmt knows, every time, and hope they actually address it.