Author Topic: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do  (Read 40565 times)

Sdeeze

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #350 on: February 27, 2017, 08:27:46 AM »
Do you really need another key fob?  If your car keys don't have little security chips in them, you can just get a few copies made at your local hardware store.  It's a pretty cheap service.

You're definitely right about not needing one. It was more along the lines of it'd be nice to have if the cost is in line with it's worth. That was definitely not the case from the dealership.

Looks like you can program a new key fob yourself. For example:
https://northcoastkeyless.com/2002-toyota-camry-keyless-entry-remote-programming-instructions/

Thanks for providing that information. Shortly after coming home from the dealership I'd looked up compatible key fobs on Amazon to get a sense of the actual cost but hadn't truly investigated the process for syncing them with a particular vehicle. That's definitely the best writeup of the process I've seen by a long shot though, so thanks for passing that along.

Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your point of view), most cars from the last 15 years or so have come with transponder keys, which help deter theft, but also make replacement (or duplicate) keys far more expensive.  Personally, I think car makers should give people the ability to disable the transponder functionality after 10 years or so, so you don't have to spend $100 on a new key for your 10-year-old car that nobody is going to bother trying to steal.

You *can* usually program your own key fobs, but not your own keys.

Yeah. I'm with you on this. Usually enterprising individuals can figure out ways around the process but it would be nice to see some common-sense on the depreceated worth of the vehicles you're protecting taken into consideration after 10 years or so. I'm not getting a key to lock out criminals from breaking into my crappy-looking old Camry, it's so that I can start the car and possibly retrieve other keys that get locked in.

Here's the best guide I can find for reprogramming a Camry key from parts I can buy myself (on some person's God-based website of all places). It does not look like an especially easy process. http://www.abcgod.net/program-transponder-key-2002-toyota-camry.html
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 08:30:39 AM by Sdeeze »
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Reynold

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #351 on: February 27, 2017, 01:42:17 PM »
Yeah. I'm with you on this. Usually enterprising individuals can figure out ways around the process but it would be nice to see some common-sense on the depreceated worth of the vehicles you're protecting taken into consideration after 10 years or so. I'm not getting a key to lock out criminals from breaking into my crappy-looking old Camry, it's so that I can start the car and possibly retrieve other keys that get locked in.

I've never actually heard of someone stealing a car by making a physical duplicate (though I'm sure there are exceptions with divorces and other breakups).   I'd rather not have the security chip in the key at all, with our Subaru it is around $400, if I recall, to get a spare key.  Since we have never lost a car key, we are taking our chances on not getting an extra spare for the first time.  What a money maker for the dealer. 

Spork

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #352 on: February 27, 2017, 05:14:32 PM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #353 on: February 27, 2017, 05:19:05 PM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

I'm filing this away for future reference!
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slugline

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #354 on: February 28, 2017, 08:51:08 AM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

Nice! I have yet to own one of these darn newfangled RFID cars. :) Are the appropriate key blanks readily available at hardware stores to generate duplicates?

MilesTeg

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #355 on: February 28, 2017, 10:15:43 AM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

Have to be careful with that, as many cars also have security functionality that will refuse to lock the car if it detects a key inside. Also, it makes your car trivial to steal just like pre RFID cars. And remember, the most commonly stolen cars are not fancy expensive cars, but rather the most popular and older cars as they have the largest parts market which is what thieves really want your car for.

Spork

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #356 on: February 28, 2017, 11:12:48 AM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

Have to be careful with that, as many cars also have security functionality that will refuse to lock the car if it detects a key inside. Also, it makes your car trivial to steal just like pre RFID cars. And remember, the most commonly stolen cars are not fancy expensive cars, but rather the most popular and older cars as they have the largest parts market which is what thieves really want your car for.

It would be easy to test in advance prior to pulling things apart.

I thought the most common thefts were relatively recent popular cars (2-5 years old) rather than older popular cars.

Personally, I prefer both the RFID and a physical key.  I don't like the idea of "RFID in pocket" (as that's clonable by just passing you in the parking lot) nor do I like the idea of the old style key -- unless it's in a junker car that costs less than a duplicate key.

I know some manufacturers make it relatively easy to reprogram keys (as long as you have one working one) ... and some do not.
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joleran

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #357 on: February 28, 2017, 12:30:02 PM »
It would be easy to test in advance prior to pulling things apart.

I thought the most common thefts were relatively recent popular cars (2-5 years old) rather than older popular cars.

Personally, I prefer both the RFID and a physical key.  I don't like the idea of "RFID in pocket" (as that's clonable by just passing you in the parking lot) nor do I like the idea of the old style key -- unless it's in a junker car that costs less than a duplicate key.

I know some manufacturers make it relatively easy to reprogram keys (as long as you have one working one) ... and some do not.

"RFID in pocket" isn't trivially cloneable with some basic encryption protections.

From http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/131638/how-can-rfid-nfc-tags-not-be-cloned-when-they-are-passive-technology
Quote
This means that half-duplex bidirectional communication is possible with RFID, thus the chip can do anything, and work like a contact smart-card. And as you know, a contact smart card with a security chip, that can securely store a key, and only perform operations with the key, is impossible to "clone" or "copy" as the key cannot be extracted. That's the security of smart cards, they cannot be cloned, and that's why they are preferred over magnetic strip cards.

MilesTeg

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #358 on: February 28, 2017, 01:38:55 PM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

Have to be careful with that, as many cars also have security functionality that will refuse to lock the car if it detects a key inside. Also, it makes your car trivial to steal just like pre RFID cars. And remember, the most commonly stolen cars are not fancy expensive cars, but rather the most popular and older cars as they have the largest parts market which is what thieves really want your car for.

It would be easy to test in advance prior to pulling things apart.

I thought the most common thefts were relatively recent popular cars (2-5 years old) rather than older popular cars.

Personally, I prefer both the RFID and a physical key.  I don't like the idea of "RFID in pocket" (as that's clonable by just passing you in the parking lot) nor do I like the idea of the old style key -- unless it's in a junker car that costs less than a duplicate key.

I know some manufacturers make it relatively easy to reprogram keys (as long as you have one working one) ... and some do not.

Yep, easy to test.

But no, it's older cars that get stolen the most. Thieves steal cars to part them out; re-selling stolen vehicles whole is much harder to do. The market for parts of cars that are still under warranty is considerably smaller than cars that are out of warranty. Both because the owner doesn't have to pay for the parts or labor and because newer car models are less likely to need replacement parts (and also insured against collision damage). Varies by maker/warranty period of course. I'm not saying newer cars aren't also stolen, but older (old enough to be out of warranty and needing parts) popular models always top the lists of stolen vehicles. The typical "wisdom" that older, less shiny things are less desired by thieves does not apply to cars.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/lock-it-these-are-10-most-stolen-cars-2015
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/10-most-stolen-vehicles-2.aspx

Keep your old car locked up =)

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #359 on: February 28, 2017, 03:23:04 PM »
For what it's worth, one method I've seen people do to "unchip" their RFID keys is to take a working RFID key and a knife and dig the chip out.  You then open up the steering column (or pull the steering wheel, depending on your model) and tape that RFID inside the column.  Now you just need a regular key.

Have to be careful with that, as many cars also have security functionality that will refuse to lock the car if it detects a key inside. Also, it makes your car trivial to steal just like pre RFID cars. And remember, the most commonly stolen cars are not fancy expensive cars, but rather the most popular and older cars as they have the largest parts market which is what thieves really want your car for.

It would be easy to test in advance prior to pulling things apart.

I thought the most common thefts were relatively recent popular cars (2-5 years old) rather than older popular cars.

Personally, I prefer both the RFID and a physical key.  I don't like the idea of "RFID in pocket" (as that's clonable by just passing you in the parking lot) nor do I like the idea of the old style key -- unless it's in a junker car that costs less than a duplicate key.

I know some manufacturers make it relatively easy to reprogram keys (as long as you have one working one) ... and some do not.

Yep, easy to test.

But no, it's older cars that get stolen the most. Thieves steal cars to part them out; re-selling stolen vehicles whole is much harder to do. The market for parts of cars that are still under warranty is considerably smaller than cars that are out of warranty. Both because the owner doesn't have to pay for the parts or labor and because newer car models are less likely to need replacement parts (and also insured against collision damage). Varies by maker/warranty period of course. I'm not saying newer cars aren't also stolen, but older (old enough to be out of warranty and needing parts) popular models always top the lists of stolen vehicles. The typical "wisdom" that older, less shiny things are less desired by thieves does not apply to cars.

http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/lock-it-these-are-10-most-stolen-cars-2015
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/10-most-stolen-vehicles-2.aspx

Keep your old car locked up =)

I don't like the way it appears* this study was done.  It looks like they just took the overall list of stolen cars and sorted by most frequently occurring of each model or model+year.  But, I don't think this is a good method.  I would like to see it as stolen cars in each model (or model+year) as a percentage of registered vehicles in each model (or model+year).  So, because I am probably explaining this poorly:
If list of registered vehicles is
  • 300 Corollas
  • 20 Rams
  • 6 Altimas
and the list of stolen cars is
  • 6 Corollas
  • 4 Altimas
  • 1 Ram
...that makes it look like Corollas are the most likely to be stolen, Altimas mid-range, and Rams pretty safe.  However, it's actually 2% of Corollas getting stolen, 5% of Rams, and 66.7% of Altimas.  So, Corollas would actually be a safer bet than Altimas.

* I specify "appears" because the link back to the NICB website continues to give no further information except that it is numbers of vehicles.
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MilesTeg

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #360 on: February 28, 2017, 04:52:06 PM »

I don't like the way it appears* this study was done. 

Even within the same car model (e.g. the Accord, Civic), the older vehicles are the ones that pop up on the list of most stolen, not the newer ones. The Accord has has about ~400k per year produced going back 30 years, but it's still the older ones (mid nineties) being stolen the most in 2015. There's a bigger market for parts, the people who need those parts are less wealthy (and thus cheap stolen parts are in higher demand), and the cars themselves are easier to steal.

There's very little incentive to steal newer cars (as part of a criminal enterprise) unless you want to ship them overseas to be resold where their VINs aren't known, and only really expensive cars are worth that hassle. Much easier to steal something that can be parted out and easily sold in the grey market.

Spork

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #361 on: February 28, 2017, 07:32:32 PM »
It would be easy to test in advance prior to pulling things apart.

I thought the most common thefts were relatively recent popular cars (2-5 years old) rather than older popular cars.

Personally, I prefer both the RFID and a physical key.  I don't like the idea of "RFID in pocket" (as that's clonable by just passing you in the parking lot) nor do I like the idea of the old style key -- unless it's in a junker car that costs less than a duplicate key.

I know some manufacturers make it relatively easy to reprogram keys (as long as you have one working one) ... and some do not.

"RFID in pocket" isn't trivially cloneable with some basic encryption protections.

From http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/131638/how-can-rfid-nfc-tags-not-be-cloned-when-they-are-passive-technology
Quote
This means that half-duplex bidirectional communication is possible with RFID, thus the chip can do anything, and work like a contact smart-card. And as you know, a contact smart card with a security chip, that can securely store a key, and only perform operations with the key, is impossible to "clone" or "copy" as the key cannot be extracted. That's the security of smart cards, they cannot be cloned, and that's why they are preferred over magnetic strip cards.

I should probably not have used the word "cloned".  But the exploit I know of is a very simple man in the middle attack:
* watch victim park car
* badguy1 stands at car
* badguy2 follows victim
* badguy1 has device that receives beacon from the car, transmits to badguy2.  Badguy2 sends beacon to victim, which responds and it is sent back to badguy1. 

Easy to set up with a couple of laptops/wifi.  Minimally it will get the door open in broad daylight as if you are using the key.  Looks totally innocent.  This works great in mall parking lots or at restaurants/bars where you can easily get close and relay the beacon.

And some Megamo chipsets from just a few years back improperly had less than random seeds and had brute forcible keyspaces.  I would bet there are lots of these still around.

And if you get out of the realm of car keys... things like office key cards are chock full of non-encrypted RFID cards.  There was a Blackhat or Defcon presentation a few years back where they turned a metal door frame into a card reader and read every single badge as people walked through.
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Pizzabrewer

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #362 on: February 28, 2017, 08:07:19 PM »
Serious thread drift here folks.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #363 on: February 28, 2017, 09:03:42 PM »

I don't like the way it appears* this study was done. 

Even within the same car model (e.g. the Accord, Civic), the older vehicles are the ones that pop up on the list of most stolen, not the newer ones. The Accord has has about ~400k per year produced going back 30 years, but it's still the older ones (mid nineties) being stolen the most in 2015. There's a bigger market for parts, the people who need those parts are less wealthy (and thus cheap stolen parts are in higher demand), and the cars themselves are easier to steal.

There's very little incentive to steal newer cars (as part of a criminal enterprise) unless you want to ship them overseas to be resold where their VINs aren't known, and only really expensive cars are worth that hassle. Much easier to steal something that can be parted out and easily sold in the grey market.

I still say that the numbers they give aren't really useful to support those points.  It might be more useful if they pointed out in which locations there are still large numbers of pre-2000 Hondas running and in-use available to be stolen.  Are most of those stolen Hondas from high-crime areas where pre-2000 Hondas are the most common vehicle?  Also, compare that to the (similarly useless) numbers for Toyotas.  The Camry and Corolla only have the 2014 model year showing up on that list.
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Also, what I have gleaned from this discussion is that Spork is a dangerous utensil that I would not want to take in a tech-fight.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #364 on: March 01, 2017, 07:39:50 AM »

I don't like the way it appears* this study was done. 

Even within the same car model (e.g. the Accord, Civic), the older vehicles are the ones that pop up on the list of most stolen, not the newer ones. The Accord has has about ~400k per year produced going back 30 years, but it's still the older ones (mid nineties) being stolen the most in 2015. There's a bigger market for parts, the people who need those parts are less wealthy (and thus cheap stolen parts are in higher demand), and the cars themselves are easier to steal.

There's very little incentive to steal newer cars (as part of a criminal enterprise) unless you want to ship them overseas to be resold where their VINs aren't known, and only really expensive cars are worth that hassle. Much easier to steal something that can be parted out and easily sold in the grey market.

I still say that the numbers they give aren't really useful to support those points.  It might be more useful if they pointed out in which locations there are still large numbers of pre-2000 Hondas running and in-use available to be stolen.  Are most of those stolen Hondas from high-crime areas where pre-2000 Hondas are the most common vehicle?  Also, compare that to the (similarly useless) numbers for Toyotas.  The Camry and Corolla only have the 2014 model year showing up on that list.
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Also, what I have gleaned from this discussion is that Spork is a dangerous utensil that I would not want to take in a tech-fight.

Did not RTFA but sounds like sloppy/lazy analysis that did not normalize for population size (size sold or size still on the road).  I dont like this, I do good work but people are accustomed to sloppy work so they assume mine is also sloppy.  This is why people think you can say anything you want with statistics.
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MilesTeg

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #365 on: March 01, 2017, 11:05:45 AM »
I still say that the numbers they give aren't really useful to support those points. 

You don't feel that a list of stolen vehicles by model year that very consistently shows 15+ year old vehicles being the most commonly stolen vehicle (within the same make and model!) to reasonably support what I am saying, which is that older vehicles are more commonly stolen than new vehicles? There are a LOT more 5-6 year old Accords, Camrys, Rams, F-150s, etc. still on the road than 15-20 year old vehicles of the same make. Those makes have all seen either consistent production or increases in production over time (full size trucks having a exception during the 07-12 time frame due to gas prices). And, of course, many of those older vehicles naturally are sitting in a junkyard, not in a driveway.

I don't disagree that there are many factors at play here and that the "study design" of my citations is probably very lax, but you're looking at an extremely consistent trend across many different vehicle types on nationwide scale. I'm not cherry picking data.

And, of course, I'm not basing this entirely on those numbers, but also on the realities of vehicle theft which is different from most consumer goods theft. Like I said the economics and logistics of vehicle theft clearly favor older cars. Tell me, why would you steal something that is (relatively) very difficult to steal that you can't easily profit on? Whole stolen vehicles are extremely difficult to resell due both to technological barriers (VINs, digital DBs, etc.) and law enforcement (government tracked ownership, etc.). Legitimate car dealers and purchasers won't touch something that is at all suspect. Further, there's no parts market for new vehicles due to warranties -- car manufacturers won't be buying your chop shop's grey market goods. New cars are simply a low value/ROI theft target.

Compare this to, say, electronic gadgets. Any electronic gadget more than a few years old is effectively worthless (can't be resold for more than a pittance), and there is no particularly strong effort made by society to stop theft of those types of things. Your laptop doesn't have its serial number and ownership history tracked in a central government database, it can easily be wiped and resold, etc. So naturally thieves target the new, shiny versions as those are the highest value/ROI targets.


Pizzabrewer

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #366 on: March 01, 2017, 11:09:47 AM »
Can we stop the thread drift?  Analysis of stolen car trends and engine comparisons are interesting, but deserve their own threads.

I'm hoping we can go back to the comedy of dealership bullshit.


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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #367 on: March 01, 2017, 03:39:02 PM »
Can we stop the thread drift?  Analysis of stolen car trends and engine comparisons are interesting, but deserve their own threads.

I'm hoping we can go back to the comedy of dealership bullshit.

Many years ago, the DW and I sat through the whole greasy experience of doing the paperwork for an off lease Altima at a Nissan dealer. After we left, the Finance guy forged paperwork to sign us up for the extended factory warranty. I got the first payment invoice, called the dealer and blew up on the phone. In response the dealer management basically told me to go fuck myself, since I couldn't prove it. At that point it was apparently a common occurrence with Nissan corporate. They weren't surprised to hear it, didn't give a rat's ass, refunded the charges immediately, and voided the warranty contract. A month later, thanks to my awful handwriting, Nissan finance processed my monthly payment check for $200 something, and misread the two as a seven. My bank processed it as a two,  Nissan credited it as a seven. In any other case, I would of notified them of the error, but I remembered how the dealer told me to fuck off, and decided that I shouldn't interfere with Karma, and just enjoy the $500 bonus.   

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #368 on: March 01, 2017, 03:47:47 PM »
Several years ago, Oprah had a guest who was transitioning from male to female.  There was a brief period where she could pass as either male or female depending on her dress and body language.  She went to the same dealership twice, presenting as male, then female.  She asked for the same information each trip. 

Not surprisingly she got completely different responses from the dealers.  As a man, they talked about performance and reliability.  As a woman, it was all about color choice and cup holders.  They also started with a higher price point to the woman.  I can't remember if she had the same salesman or not.

Obviously there could be a million other variables at play, but it's not surprising that some dealers have asinine ideas about how to approach men and women differently.

If only I was in the market for a replacement car right now. This is pretty much where I am in my transition currently. I don't think the social experiment is worth my time if I'm not actually buying a car.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #369 on: March 02, 2017, 07:19:34 AM »
One of my life goals is to never buy a car from a dealership every again. I have done this once in my life and it was one time too many.

THIS
I hate dealerships... I hate feeling like I am not getting a good deal and I hate thinking that was the only way I could get a vehicle in a rush (bought a minivan) ... but I LOVE the van... and (finger's crossed) no problems with it yet AND its almost paid off :) (on a 0% 12month credit card!) :) 14,000
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MightyAl

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #370 on: March 02, 2017, 10:44:45 AM »
So I have been trying to sell a car and just had to share my latest experience.  I have a third car and it is a corvette (go ahead and facepunch galore but it is up for sale).  I have been trying to sell it and have already gotten a quote from CarMax so I can have a baseline.  I had another carbuying dealership called Carworth call me and ask about my car.  I figured what the hell I will take it down there and see what they say.  I don't think they are used to dealing with owners like me.  Firstly I am not desperate to sell at a loss and Second I don't need to move into another vehicle. 

They did the whole pass around thing.  The guy who set the meeting up was not the guy I had to deal with and then they brought in a third guy, we will get to that.  So they get me my price and it is identical to the CarMax price so it is no go.  They ask me why I am selling and I tell them that my finances have changed and I want to reduce overhead plus this car being older has a high interest rate.  The buyer looks at me and says "What? Is it 15% to 20%" and I responded "Holy crap no it is 6%".  Even so I don't think he figured out that he was out of his element. 

He starts to try to figure out ways to get the difference between what I owe and what they want to give me for the car.  So he calls another guy over and they start to talk to me about selling my van, that I own outright, back to me with a loan to cover the difference in the other car.  I didn't have the heart to tell them that I have the money in the bank to pay the car off in entirety.  I figured it was time to get out when they started talking about all the goofy financing shenanigans. 

At the end of the day I figured these guys just prey on those that are in desperate situations.  I am biding my time and waiting for the right buyer to come along which with a corvette should be in the next couple months and certainly with tax returns coming in there will be someone looking to blow it on a toy. 

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #371 on: March 02, 2017, 03:49:47 PM »
I've found that it is not always a salesperson preying on people, it's that they are not used to dealing with people that have their financial shit together.  Yes, I know there are sleazy salesfolks, but salespeople are trained to sell to the masses and the masses are only interested in payments on the latest and greatest. 
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #372 on: March 03, 2017, 07:34:21 AM »
So I have been trying to sell a car and just had to share my latest experience.  I have a third car and it is a corvette (go ahead and facepunch galore but it is up for sale).  I have been trying to sell it and have already gotten a quote from CarMax so I can have a baseline.  I had another carbuying dealership called Carworth call me and ask about my car.  I figured what the hell I will take it down there and see what they say.  I don't think they are used to dealing with owners like me.  Firstly I am not desperate to sell at a loss and Second I don't need to move into another vehicle. 

They did the whole pass around thing.  The guy who set the meeting up was not the guy I had to deal with and then they brought in a third guy, we will get to that.  So they get me my price and it is identical to the CarMax price so it is no go.  They ask me why I am selling and I tell them that my finances have changed and I want to reduce overhead plus this car being older has a high interest rate.  The buyer looks at me and says "What? Is it 15% to 20%" and I responded "Holy crap no it is 6%".  Even so I don't think he figured out that he was out of his element. 

He starts to try to figure out ways to get the difference between what I owe and what they want to give me for the car.  So he calls another guy over and they start to talk to me about selling my van, that I own outright, back to me with a loan to cover the difference in the other car.  I didn't have the heart to tell them that I have the money in the bank to pay the car off in entirety.  I figured it was time to get out when they started talking about all the goofy financing shenanigans. 

At the end of the day I figured these guys just prey on those that are in desperate situations.  I am biding my time and waiting for the right buyer to come along which with a corvette should be in the next couple months and certainly with tax returns coming in there will be someone looking to blow it on a toy.

There is definitely a niche market of buying used vehicles from the desperate, stupid and/or uninformed. We don't have great access to legitimate Carmax type buyers, but there was a local buying outfit that advertised heavily in local media, offering to buy your ride no matter how much you owe. The media campaign and overall feel was classic sleazy, "buy here, pay here" caliber stuff.  I gave then a call on an older Tahoe I wanted to dump. A legitimate local place offered me about $6K for it, since that was an honest wholesale number. The place that does all the local media push makes offers on the phone, sight unseen. They asked me to come on down, and if I had the title in hand, they would cut me a check for $3100. I just laughed. If you think about it, it's a great scam. In my case, I show up with the truck, even if it needs a grand or two in refurbishing, they still end up a few thousand below what it would cost to buy a similar rig at an auction, drag it back to the shop and do the detailing. If 10-20% of the folks that contact them are dumb enough to fall for it, they have a pretty successful business model. I sold the truck privately, to the first person that looked, for $7.5K.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #373 on: March 08, 2017, 03:39:52 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #374 on: March 08, 2017, 03:59:11 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.
Enterprise did this to me last year.  Wanted a "Nissan Versa or similar", got a fucking monster truck of a giant deluxe luxury package SUV.  I don't care if it normally rents for $200/day, I don't want it.  When I returned it, the guy eagerly asked if I liked it, and saying "No, but that's not the car's fault." deflated him pretty hard.

We pretty routinely get "upgrades" from Hertz when renting cars, but it's usually more along the lines of "Reserve a Chevy Spark, get a Ford Focus hatchback or Nissan Sentra" which I'm more OK with.

My favorite time was when the smarmy Hertz guy was grilling my GF to upgrade to a bigger car for her trip for only an extra $x/day (totally unnecessary, and she shot it down)... and then ended up just giving her that next class up anyway because that's what they had on hand.  Thanks, guy, way to go.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #375 on: March 08, 2017, 04:09:28 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #376 on: March 08, 2017, 07:17:49 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

It completely threw me off last night when I backed out of the airport parking and saw that there were two rows of passenger seating. Wait, what? There's only the four doors. How does that even work?  I feel like such an ass driving this beast around by my lonesome and thinking "it's a good thing the government is paying for the fuel on this thing."

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #377 on: March 09, 2017, 07:25:02 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

It completely threw me off last night when I backed out of the airport parking and saw that there were two rows of passenger seating. Wait, what? There's only the four doors. How does that even work?  I feel like such an ass driving this beast around by my lonesome and thinking "it's a good thing the government is paying for the fuel on this thing."

Few years back I got the "free upgrade" and ended up with a jeep wrangler-unlimited, was alright but very odd having manual locks and manual windows in a rental car.  My customers insisted we take it off roading; and as they were paying the bills I did find a dirt lot with a mound for us to have a some fun.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #378 on: March 09, 2017, 07:39:20 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

It completely threw me off last night when I backed out of the airport parking and saw that there were two rows of passenger seating. Wait, what? There's only the four doors. How does that even work?  I feel like such an ass driving this beast around by my lonesome and thinking "it's a good thing the government is paying for the fuel on this thing."

Few years back I got the "free upgrade" and ended up with a jeep wrangler-unlimited, was alright but very odd having manual locks and manual windows in a rental car.  My customers insisted we take it off roading; and as they were paying the bills I did find a dirt lot with a mound for us to have a some fun.

I got a free upgrade to a Wrangle on Kauai a couple weeks ago, I friggin' love that thing.  I wish I had the space for one and all the accouterments it comes with (removable hardtop, etc) but it doesn't fit my lifestyle.  Oh well.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #379 on: March 09, 2017, 07:58:38 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

It completely threw me off last night when I backed out of the airport parking and saw that there were two rows of passenger seating. Wait, what? There's only the four doors. How does that even work?  I feel like such an ass driving this beast around by my lonesome and thinking "it's a good thing the government is paying for the fuel on this thing."

The second row folds forward so you can access the third row - the same way you get to the back seats in a 2 door car?

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #380 on: March 09, 2017, 02:15:12 PM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

Chris22

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #381 on: March 09, 2017, 02:50:17 PM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

It's like the old minivans.  You chose between back seat room and cargo space.  Which, honestly, 9 times out of 10 isn't a tough pick because you don't need both at once.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #382 on: March 09, 2017, 05:23:53 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I used to rent a car twice a month (out of town family, cheaper than buying and parking where I lived since I only used public transit otherwise) and Hertz would pull this regularly.

FYI, because It might help others: PROTEST. Every time, I'd say something like "I'm going to a place 160km away, and the difference between the Yaris i reserved and the jeep you're tying to get me to drive is an extra 25-30$ gas for the trip. On a 50-80$ car rental (depending on the deal and length of the rental...) that's unacceptable, and I'd like the car I reserved, please." And without fail they'd credit the extra gas cost just to get me to take the car they had and go away.

And I didn't make money off this - it DID cost an extra 25-30$, yay Quebec gas prices - but at least I didn't lose it every time they pulled the whole "upgrade" nonsense!

Metric Mouse

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #383 on: March 09, 2017, 06:11:19 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I have never had the unpleasant experience of getting stuck with one of these. That said, the automotive press is hardly in love with Fiat/Chrysler at the moment, and comments about why they ever built the Journeys at all, and why do they continue to do so, are pretty common. A cheap, poorly built, unreliable minivan, that two foot short of being usable as one, doesn't make a lot of sense. A friend attempts to use one as a family car, but it takes a lot of effort. The main computer is defective, and it's a common, well documented issue that FCA refuses to deal with. It does shit like randomly operating power windows with the key off and nobody near the thing. Pretty much a rolling reminder as to why it's best to avoid the brand.

It completely threw me off last night when I backed out of the airport parking and saw that there were two rows of passenger seating. Wait, what? There's only the four doors. How does that even work?  I feel like such an ass driving this beast around by my lonesome and thinking "it's a good thing the government is paying for the fuel on this thing."

Few years back I got the "free upgrade" and ended up with a jeep wrangler-unlimited, was alright but very odd having manual locks and manual windows in a rental car.  My customers insisted we take it off roading; and as they were paying the bills I did find a dirt lot with a mound for us to have a some fun.

I got a free upgrade to a Wrangle on Kauai a couple weeks ago, I friggin' love that thing.  I wish I had the space for one and all the accouterments it comes with (removable hardtop, etc) but it doesn't fit my lifestyle.  Oh well.
I've been drooling over these for awhile. Probably my next car; will fit my lifestyle great in about two years.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #384 on: March 09, 2017, 09:09:49 PM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I used to rent a car twice a month (out of town family, cheaper than buying and parking where I lived since I only used public transit otherwise) and Hertz would pull this regularly.

FYI, because It might help others: PROTEST. Every time, I'd say something like "I'm going to a place 160km away, and the difference between the Yaris i reserved and the jeep you're tying to get me to drive is an extra 25-30$ gas for the trip. On a 50-80$ car rental (depending on the deal and length of the rental...) that's unacceptable, and I'd like the car I reserved, please." And without fail they'd credit the extra gas cost just to get me to take the car they had and go away.

And I didn't make money off this - it DID cost an extra 25-30$, yay Quebec gas prices - but at least I didn't lose it every time they pulled the whole "upgrade" nonsense!

100 miles is $25-30 EXTRA in gas?  Does not compute. Even for a round trip.
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Metric Mouse

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #385 on: March 10, 2017, 03:17:23 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I used to rent a car twice a month (out of town family, cheaper than buying and parking where I lived since I only used public transit otherwise) and Hertz would pull this regularly.

FYI, because It might help others: PROTEST. Every time, I'd say something like "I'm going to a place 160km away, and the difference between the Yaris i reserved and the jeep you're tying to get me to drive is an extra 25-30$ gas for the trip. On a 50-80$ car rental (depending on the deal and length of the rental...) that's unacceptable, and I'd like the car I reserved, please." And without fail they'd credit the extra gas cost just to get me to take the car they had and go away.

And I didn't make money off this - it DID cost an extra 25-30$, yay Quebec gas prices - but at least I didn't lose it every time they pulled the whole "upgrade" nonsense!

100 miles is $25-30 EXTRA in gas?  Does not compute. Even for a round trip.
Canadian gas prices, perhaps? Maybe the Yaris gets 30mpg better than the Jeep and gas is 8 dollars a gallon? That would be close to that then.
Give me one fine day of plain sailing weather and I can mess up anything.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #386 on: March 10, 2017, 07:41:16 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I used to rent a car twice a month (out of town family, cheaper than buying and parking where I lived since I only used public transit otherwise) and Hertz would pull this regularly.

FYI, because It might help others: PROTEST. Every time, I'd say something like "I'm going to a place 160km away, and the difference between the Yaris i reserved and the jeep you're tying to get me to drive is an extra 25-30$ gas for the trip. On a 50-80$ car rental (depending on the deal and length of the rental...) that's unacceptable, and I'd like the car I reserved, please." And without fail they'd credit the extra gas cost just to get me to take the car they had and go away.

And I didn't make money off this - it DID cost an extra 25-30$, yay Quebec gas prices - but at least I didn't lose it every time they pulled the whole "upgrade" nonsense!

100 miles is $25-30 EXTRA in gas?  Does not compute. Even for a round trip.
Canadian gas prices, perhaps? Maybe the Yaris gets 30mpg better than the Jeep and gas is 8 dollars a gallon? That would be close to that then.

This was when gas was 1.60-80/liter (3 years ago or so...)... 160 km x 2 (round trip)...

Quebec gas prices suck. In conclusion. (Currently about 1.10$/liter, and that's considered really low).

Metric Mouse

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #387 on: March 10, 2017, 07:54:40 AM »
So that would only require the Yaris to get roughly 20km/ liter better fuel efficiency than the Jeep to save $30 over 320 km at those prices.  Don't know much about the yaris fuel usage, but that would be the math.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #388 on: March 10, 2017, 08:51:14 PM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

The Chevy Equinox/Buick Enclave/GMC ? has the same arrangement - hinged doors, three rows of seating and not much luggage space. Its a minivan for people who fear being seen in a minivan. I've driven them. Nice enough but not appealing enough to me to own.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #389 on: March 10, 2017, 10:42:30 PM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

The Chevy Equinox/Buick Enclave/GMC ? has the same arrangement - hinged doors, three rows of seating and not much luggage space. Its a minivan for people who fear being seen in a minivan. I've driven them. Nice enough but not appealing enough to me to own.
LOL that's exactly what it is...well, except for the fact that it gets worse gas mileage and has less cargo capacity than a minivan :)

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #390 on: March 11, 2017, 11:26:50 AM »
A minivan or Sprinter would be better - carry people or things. More width., less curvy interior design.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #391 on: March 13, 2017, 12:31:16 PM »
I received this as a funny today.

"A retired older couple return to a Mercedes dealership where the salesman has just sold the car they were interested in to a beautiful, leggy, busty blonde in a mini skirt and a halter top.

The old man was visibly upset. He spoke to the salesman sharply. "Young man, I thought you said you would hold that car till we raised the $55,000 asking price," said the older man. "Yet I just heard you closed the deal for $45,000 to the lovely young lady there."

"And if I remember right, you had insisted there was no way you could discount this model."  The salesman took a deep breath, cleared his throat and reached for a large glass of water. "Well, what can I tell you?  She had the cash ready, didn't need any financing help, and, Sir, just look at her, how could I resist?", replied the  grinning salesman sheepishly.

Just then the young woman approached the senior couple and gave the car keys to the old man...

"There you go," she said. "I told you I could get that idiot to lower the price...."

"See you later, Dad, Happy Father's day."

Metric Mouse

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #392 on: March 16, 2017, 03:53:41 AM »
That's clearly a story. Car dealers will reach over their dying grandmother for a dollar on the ground; no way they'll give up ten grand over of a mini skirt.
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MightyAl

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #393 on: March 16, 2017, 04:54:07 AM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

The Chevy Equinox/Buick Enclave/GMC ? has the same arrangement - hinged doors, three rows of seating and not much luggage space. Its a minivan for people who fear being seen in a minivan. I've driven them. Nice enough but not appealing enough to me to own.

That is so funny.  My wife got a minivan to drive a few years ago after I had spent years selling her on it.  Once she got in it she absolutely loved it and wondered how we lived without one.  She actually made me buy an SUV instead of a minivan just because she deplored the thought of having one. 

One of her friends gave her a rash of crap for getting a minivan.  I told my wife that this is the same person that has a vehicle with less utility, a higher step in height, and worse gas mileage.  Her friend had a Buick Enclave. 

I had another guy that I knew and he wanted a wagon so bad but his wife had a small Honda suv.  I had met with him to pick up some wheels and he pointed at the SUV and said "Just take that thing and lower the ride height and you have a wagon" and shook his head. 

dogboyslim

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #394 on: March 16, 2017, 08:40:48 AM »
Not exactly a dealership, but I'm out on business driving a rental this week. I arrived at the airport at 8pm and I had to wait while they cleaned and prepared my vehicle.  I originally requested a compact car, but was told I received a free upgrade and it seemed like I didn't have much of a choice but to take it.  They ended up giving me a Dodge Journey.  I don't like driving trucks anymore since they're difficult to use in cities and finding parking and I don't really consider this an "upgrade."  Giving me a larger vehicle is not doing me any favors.

I used to rent a car twice a month (out of town family, cheaper than buying and parking where I lived since I only used public transit otherwise) and Hertz would pull this regularly.

FYI, because It might help others: PROTEST. Every time, I'd say something like "I'm going to a place 160km away, and the difference between the Yaris i reserved and the jeep you're tying to get me to drive is an extra 25-30$ gas for the trip. On a 50-80$ car rental (depending on the deal and length of the rental...) that's unacceptable, and I'd like the car I reserved, please." And without fail they'd credit the extra gas cost just to get me to take the car they had and go away.

And I didn't make money off this - it DID cost an extra 25-30$, yay Quebec gas prices - but at least I didn't lose it every time they pulled the whole "upgrade" nonsense!

100 miles is $25-30 EXTRA in gas?  Does not compute. Even for a round trip.
Canadian gas prices, perhaps? Maybe the Yaris gets 30mpg better than the Jeep and gas is 8 dollars a gallon? That would be close to that then.

Let's say the Yaris gets 35 mpg and the Jeep gets 19 mpg.  That equates to 8.07 km/l for the Jeep and 14.88 km/l for the Yaris.  Over 320 km, the jeep will need 18.1 additional liters of gas.  At $1.70 per liter, that's $30.77.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 08:42:42 AM by dogboyslim »

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #395 on: March 16, 2017, 08:47:00 AM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

The Chevy Equinox/Buick Enclave/GMC ? has the same arrangement - hinged doors, three rows of seating and not much luggage space. Its a minivan for people who fear being seen in a minivan. I've driven them. Nice enough but not appealing enough to me to own.

That is so funny.  My wife got a minivan to drive a few years ago after I had spent years selling her on it.  Once she got in it she absolutely loved it and wondered how we lived without one.  She actually made me buy an SUV instead of a minivan just because she deplored the thought of having one. 

One of her friends gave her a rash of crap for getting a minivan.  I told my wife that this is the same person that has a vehicle with less utility, a higher step in height, and worse gas mileage.  Her friend had a Buick Enclave. 

I had another guy that I knew and he wanted a wagon so bad but his wife had a small Honda suv.  I had met with him to pick up some wheels and he pointed at the SUV and said "Just take that thing and lower the ride height and you have a wagon" and shook his head.

Do people in other countries have such serious hangups about what they drive? WHY do Americans have such a hangup over wagons and minivans? DW and I are contrarians anyhow so we wouldn't care what anyone thought about our transportation.

We are shopping wagons, small SUVs and minivans next time round. Need something with folding rear seats so we can occasionally carry stuff i.e. hardware store trips, estate sales, and camping. 

Chris22

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #396 on: March 16, 2017, 08:58:59 AM »
Probably. I haven't tried it.  It just seems like a strange layout. There's a total of three rows of seating and virtually no rear storage space.

The Chevy Equinox/Buick Enclave/GMC ? has the same arrangement - hinged doors, three rows of seating and not much luggage space. Its a minivan for people who fear being seen in a minivan. I've driven them. Nice enough but not appealing enough to me to own.

That is so funny.  My wife got a minivan to drive a few years ago after I had spent years selling her on it.  Once she got in it she absolutely loved it and wondered how we lived without one.  She actually made me buy an SUV instead of a minivan just because she deplored the thought of having one. 

One of her friends gave her a rash of crap for getting a minivan.  I told my wife that this is the same person that has a vehicle with less utility, a higher step in height, and worse gas mileage.  Her friend had a Buick Enclave. 

I had another guy that I knew and he wanted a wagon so bad but his wife had a small Honda suv.  I had met with him to pick up some wheels and he pointed at the SUV and said "Just take that thing and lower the ride height and you have a wagon" and shook his head.

Do people in other countries have such serious hangups about what they drive? WHY do Americans have such a hangup over wagons and minivans? DW and I are contrarians anyhow so we wouldn't care what anyone thought about our transportation.

We are shopping wagons, small SUVs and minivans next time round. Need something with folding rear seats so we can occasionally carry stuff i.e. hardware store trips, estate sales, and camping.

Who knows about buying habits in other countries, but note that you are kind of all over the map as far as size of vehicles.  If you look at the most popular SUVs, they are compact 2 row SUVs (Honda CRV, Toyota Rav4, Ford Escape).  Minivans are quite a bit larger than that (A Honda Odyssey is nearly 2 feet longer than a CRV), and have three rows.  So it is entirely possible that someone would have their needs met perfectly by a CRV, and find a minivan way too big.  When people say someone should buy a minivan over a Chevy Suburban or other large SUV, that's a valid point.  When it's a minivan over a 2-row SUV/CUV, it can make a lot less sense, since not everyone wants the significantly larger vehicle.  Wagons are too niche to generalize, they can be large or small, cheap or expensive, but they're pretty thin on the ground.
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

Tasty Pinecones

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #397 on: March 16, 2017, 12:43:08 PM »
Yeah, we prefer the smaller 2-row SUVs/wagons.

A minivan is good if we decide we want to be able to take our children plus friends further than across town. Currently we avoid that situation but it comes up from time to time. Minivan > three row SUV.

When we have more than five people in our party we take both our cars. Not as eager to take two cars to the beach several states away and rental prices are pretty steep for a week's use.

Still cheaper to drive two cars to the beach every three years than buy something larger.

steviesterno

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #398 on: March 23, 2017, 10:25:05 AM »
we had to buy our last car when my wife, 6 months pregnant, was hit by an idiot. the Audi convertible she was in saved both her and the baby from a direct minivan hit on the baby. So I asked what car she wanted and she said an A6 this time. Used, but done. can't argue that.

we find 2 in the area with the specs she wants. 2008 (this is late 2015 at the time) so we get approved at the credit union since they were doing 0.25% interest. Find a used one at a Ford dealer, drive, agree on price, go to do paperwork. I got fed up with the finance guy after the 6th or so repeated attempt to get me to finance with them. I just kept saying "beat the rate and I'll sign it now". couldn't be done. Now shut up dirt bag.

then they sit us down with the "upgrades consultant" who is dressed like a hooker. more plastic parts than the car had. Anyway, she keeps trying to sell us upgrades the car already had. I guess they are used to dealing with idiots who need chrome everything, but we politely told her to shut up too. We were getting pissed, and my wife who still had bloody bandages on her head was getting tired of this shit, too.

finally we said you have 5 minutes to hand us the keys and let us leave with it or we're never coming back.

it's frustrating someone with their shit together financially has to put up with such bullshit. I am trying to pay you money for this product. shut the F up and let that conclude the transaction!

jinga nation

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #399 on: March 23, 2017, 12:32:11 PM »
we had to buy our last car when my wife, 6 months pregnant, was hit by an idiot. the Audi convertible she was in saved both her and the baby from a direct minivan hit on the baby. So I asked what car she wanted and she said an A6 this time. Used, but done. can't argue that.

we find 2 in the area with the specs she wants. 2008 (this is late 2015 at the time) so we get approved at the credit union since they were doing 0.25% interest. Find a used one at a Ford dealer, drive, agree on price, go to do paperwork. I got fed up with the finance guy after the 6th or so repeated attempt to get me to finance with them. I just kept saying "beat the rate and I'll sign it now". couldn't be done. Now shut up dirt bag.

then they sit us down with the "upgrades consultant" who is dressed like a hooker. more plastic parts than the car had. Anyway, she keeps trying to sell us upgrades the car already had. I guess they are used to dealing with idiots who need chrome everything, but we politely told her to shut up too. We were getting pissed, and my wife who still had bloody bandages on her head was getting tired of this shit, too.

finally we said you have 5 minutes to hand us the keys and let us leave with it or we're never coming back.

it's frustrating someone with their shit together financially has to put up with such bullshit. I am trying to pay you money for this product. shut the F up and let that conclude the transaction!
Dealer upgrades on a used car? WTF they taking over the pimp-your-ride market? Would you like NOS with your order?
That upgrades consultant was surely 'built' for the job.
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