Author Topic: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do  (Read 48897 times)

Bumperpuff

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #200 on: January 18, 2017, 06:32:16 PM »
Keep in mind, unlike houses, cars are very repossess-able and liquid.  Not hard for a bank to hire a tow truck driver to grab a car and then go auction it off.  Easy to recoup say, 75% of the losses the bank might have on the car.

Better than that, repossessed cars are often resold as the former owner, or owners, go into collections payments. John Oliver did a piece on auto loans you can watch here:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s

Paul der Krake

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #201 on: January 18, 2017, 06:50:22 PM »
Keep in mind, unlike houses, cars are very repossess-able and liquid.  Not hard for a bank to hire a tow truck driver to grab a car and then go auction it off.  Easy to recoup say, 75% of the losses the bank might have on the car.

Better than that, repossessed cars are often resold as the former owner, or owners, go into collections payments. John Oliver did a piece on auto loans you can watch here:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s
Is it weird that I am more sad for the cars than the owners? All they ever wanted was a loving home and weekend drives, instead they are getting abused by a new broke idiot every 6 months.

Travis

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #202 on: January 18, 2017, 07:23:01 PM »
Keep in mind, unlike houses, cars are very repossess-able and liquid.  Not hard for a bank to hire a tow truck driver to grab a car and then go auction it off.  Easy to recoup say, 75% of the losses the bank might have on the car.

Which is exactly the point I brought up - cars are repossessable, all the other debt rolled into the car loan is not. In addition to the underwater portion of the car loan (a given, from day one, and for a couple years after), there are previous car loans that are now rolled in and backed by nothing (often a string of them), and now even other things like refinanced debt, toys to go with the car (4-wheelers, bikes, trailers, etc)...

If these car notes are still being treated as 75% recoverable with just a tow truck, things will get bad if those assumptions prove to be false.

What happens to the non-car debt that is included with the loan if the car gets repossessed?
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tarheeldan

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #203 on: January 18, 2017, 08:17:16 PM »
Auto ABS issues are up since 05:
http://www.sifma.org/uploadedfiles/research/statistics/statisticsfiles/sf-us-abs-sifma.xls?n=88831

I don't see much about synthetics though, which really exacerbated things with MBS.

paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #204 on: January 18, 2017, 08:21:51 PM »
Regarding auto loan length: we're not even close to reaching maximum length. Look to the RV and bot industry for some inspiration, where 20 year loans can reach 20 years.

Granted, these are different products with longer lifespan, but I would bet 120 month loans are around the corner.

If you think that it's tragic to watch folks screw themselves with a seven, eight, or ten year car loan, then you need to see a twenty year RV loan in action. I've bought several used RVs in the past. When it comes to motorhomes in particular, there is a whole  bunch of people who end up trapped, since they spend years, often a decade or more, upside down on their loans.  I have met many people, including several elderly women, who desperately needed to be rid of a motorhome, but owed thousands, to tens of thousands, more than current market value. They would typically offer really nice rigs for sale, at unreasonably inflated prices. When you engage them in a conversation, they  are usually aware of the fact that they have no chance of getting anywhere near the price they are asking, but it's "what they owe" so they can't take less.  It's a no win situation, they will never sell the thing at that price, and they aren't in a place where they can afford to deal with the issue. The thing is continually depreciating, and the hole they have dug for themselves keeps getting deeper.

 I don't borrow money for anything with wheels, or even a foundation, but I will always be amazed at idiots who think that twenty year RV loans are anything but nuclear grade stupid.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #205 on: January 19, 2017, 12:10:12 AM »
Keep in mind, unlike houses, cars are very repossess-able and liquid.  Not hard for a bank to hire a tow truck driver to grab a car and then go auction it off.  Easy to recoup say, 75% of the losses the bank might have on the car.

Better than that, repossessed cars are often resold as the former owner, or owners, go into collections payments. John Oliver did a piece on auto loans you can watch here:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s
Is it weird that I am more sad for the cars than the owners? All they ever wanted was a loving home and weekend drives, instead they are getting abused by a new broke idiot every 6 months.

Maybe cars really like the adventure, waking up in a new garage every few months, taking brand new routes, exploring new areas of the country. Sometimes it's like, about the journey, and not just the passengers.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #206 on: January 19, 2017, 12:37:58 AM »
If these car notes are still being treated as 75% recoverable with just a tow truck, things will get bad if those assumptions prove to be false.

They are also only recoverable if you can find the car. Houses tend to move about less.

Idk how easy it is elsewhere for a company to get the police involved to try and find a car that is sort-of-stolen as the loan isn't being paid but it is a pain here, and if there was a flood of people not paying the car note and swapping cars with a similarly up-shit-creek friend I expect the police would just stop bothering.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 07:57:02 AM by Playing with Fire UK »

The Guru

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #207 on: January 19, 2017, 06:07:02 AM »
Keep in mind, unlike houses, cars are very repossess-able and liquid.  Not hard for a bank to hire a tow truck driver to grab a car and then go auction it off.  Easy to recoup say, 75% of the losses the bank might have on the car.

Better than that, repossessed cars are often resold as the former owner, or owners, go into collections payments. John Oliver did a piece on auto loans you can watch here:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s
Is it weird that I am more sad for the cars than the owners? All they ever wanted was a loving home and weekend drives, instead they are getting abused by a new broke idiot every 6 months.

Maybe cars really like the adventure, waking up in a new garage every few months, taking brand new routes, exploring new areas of the country. Sometimes it's like, about the journey, and not just the passengers.

That's a sad thought. poor cars would get really bored being saddled with a boring owner like me ;-)

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #208 on: January 19, 2017, 07:20:49 AM »
Regarding auto loan length: we're not even close to reaching maximum length. Look to the RV and bot industry for some inspiration, where 20 year loans can reach 20 years.

Granted, these are different products with longer lifespan, but I would bet 120 month loans are around the corner.

If you think that it's tragic to watch folks screw themselves with a seven, eight, or ten year car loan, then you need to see a twenty year RV loan in action. I've bought several used RVs in the past. When it comes to motorhomes in particular, there is a whole  bunch of people who end up trapped, since they spend years, often a decade or more, upside down on their loans.  I have met many people, including several elderly women, who desperately needed to be rid of a motorhome, but owed thousands, to tens of thousands, more than current market value. They would typically offer really nice rigs for sale, at unreasonably inflated prices. When you engage them in a conversation, they  are usually aware of the fact that they have no chance of getting anywhere near the price they are asking, but it's "what they owe" so they can't take less.  It's a no win situation, they will never sell the thing at that price, and they aren't in a place where they can afford to deal with the issue. The thing is continually depreciating, and the hole they have dug for themselves keeps getting deeper.

 I don't borrow money for anything with wheels, or even a foundation, but I will always be amazed at idiots who think that twenty year RV loans are anything but nuclear grade stupid.

These 20 year loans must be how I see $60K RVs parked next to $90K homes around here (flyover country).

neverrun

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #209 on: January 19, 2017, 07:42:18 AM »
If these car notes are still being treated as 75% recoverable with just a tow truck, things will get bad if those assumptions prove to be false.

They are also only recoverable if you can find the car. Houses tend to move about less.

Idk how easy it is elsewhere for a company to get the police involved to try and find a car that is sort-of-stolen as the loan isn't being paid elsewhere but it is a pain here, and if there was a flood of people not paying the car note and swapping cars with a similarly up-shit-creek friend I expect the police would just stop bothering.

In the US a lot of used car dealerships now require a location GPS to be installed for the length of the loan.

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #210 on: January 19, 2017, 07:51:48 AM »
I'm sure with a bit of motivation and creativity a person could remove that GPS if they were so motivated. The sales agreement probably forbids it but if you are wrapped up in owning a particular car that you can't afford...

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #211 on: January 19, 2017, 07:58:26 AM »
If these car notes are still being treated as 75% recoverable with just a tow truck, things will get bad if those assumptions prove to be false.

They are also only recoverable if you can find the car. Houses tend to move about less.

Idk how easy it is elsewhere for a company to get the police involved to try and find a car that is sort-of-stolen as the loan isn't being paid elsewhere but it is a pain here, and if there was a flood of people not paying the car note and swapping cars with a similarly up-shit-creek friend I expect the police would just stop bothering.
In the US a lot of used car dealerships now require a location GPS to be installed for the length of the loan.

Wow, that sounds like a much cheaper option than lending tens of thousand dollars responsibly.

Chris22

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #212 on: January 19, 2017, 08:00:05 AM »
If these car notes are still being treated as 75% recoverable with just a tow truck, things will get bad if those assumptions prove to be false.

They are also only recoverable if you can find the car. Houses tend to move about less.

Idk how easy it is elsewhere for a company to get the police involved to try and find a car that is sort-of-stolen as the loan isn't being paid elsewhere but it is a pain here, and if there was a flood of people not paying the car note and swapping cars with a similarly up-shit-creek friend I expect the police would just stop bothering.

In the US a lot of used car dealerships now require a location GPS to be installed for the length of the loan.

Ehh, pretty sure that's only the "buy here pay here" low end kind of sketchy used car dealerships.  Reputable normal places do no such thing. 
"If I could get all the money back I ever spent on cars, I'd spend it on cars." - Nick Mason

RWD

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #213 on: January 19, 2017, 08:04:01 AM »
My next ACTUAL move was to ask for 5 minutes to check something, and take out my cell phone and call the other Honda dealership in the city, explain the situation, and ask if they were interested in doing business with us. In front of the sales dude. And then book an appointment in front of him.

After which I hung up and was basically like "I guess that solves that, we won't be needing your help with this. Paying for a test drive is nonsense. Good luck with that sales tactic."
Epic!


I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.
What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.

We tried to "order" a Volkswagen. I started with e-mailing the dealer and setting up a test drive for a 2015 GTI. We liked it, but wanted a specific configuration (4-doors, base trim, white, DSG, lighting package) which they weren't able to source from an existing build. So we requested they order one like that and I followed up with an e-mail confirming the expected options and price. About three months later our car had arrived. They had added several options we did not ask for (window tint, cargo organizer, wheel locks, etc.) totally nearly $1000, if I recall correctly. There was also an arbitrary marketing fee or something for maybe $200. We tried to negotiate the price back down to what I thought we had already agreed on, but couldn't come close. We walked. It took them a few more months before they were able to eventually sell that car.

We also went to look at the new Mazda 3 hatchback. I found online that the local dealer had a base trim with manual transmission in a nice color. Much cheaper than the GTI too. Showed up to that dealer unannounced and told the first salesman that walked up to me the specific car (with lot ID number) that we wanted to test drive. He then proceeded to talk to us about what we wanted in a car for what felt like 10-15 minutes before pulling out the car... The Mazda 3 was fine, but not as nice as the GTI we had just test driven. We got a quote just to see, but I wish we had just walked after the test drive. The guy took forever to get us our quote and tried to pressure us into making a deal. I'm glad we didn't even try to negotiate for that car, because that dealer is known for tacking on a lot of unnecessary options (window tint, "desert protection package", etc.).

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« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 08:28:22 AM by craiglepaige »
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paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #215 on: January 19, 2017, 10:04:34 AM »
Regarding auto loan length: we're not even close to reaching maximum length. Look to the RV and bot industry for some inspiration, where 20 year loans can reach 20 years.

Granted, these are different products with longer lifespan, but I would bet 120 month loans are around the corner.

If you think that it's tragic to watch folks screw themselves with a seven, eight, or ten year car loan, then you need to see a twenty year RV loan in action. I've bought several used RVs in the past. When it comes to motorhomes in particular, there is a whole  bunch of people who end up trapped, since they spend years, often a decade or more, upside down on their loans.  I have met many people, including several elderly women, who desperately needed to be rid of a motorhome, but owed thousands, to tens of thousands, more than current market value. They would typically offer really nice rigs for sale, at unreasonably inflated prices. When you engage them in a conversation, they  are usually aware of the fact that they have no chance of getting anywhere near the price they are asking, but it's "what they owe" so they can't take less.  It's a no win situation, they will never sell the thing at that price, and they aren't in a place where they can afford to deal with the issue. The thing is continually depreciating, and the hole they have dug for themselves keeps getting deeper.

 I don't borrow money for anything with wheels, or even a foundation, but I will always be amazed at idiots who think that twenty year RV loans are anything but nuclear grade stupid.

These 20 year loans must be how I see $60K RVs parked next to $90K homes around here (flyover country).

Bingo.  We have a neighbor who works a blue collar, fair paying job, with a wife who has a part time, low paying job, maybe a combined $70K in a good year.  He is obsessed with new vehicle purchases and never keeps a new pickup truck, or his wife's SUV, for more than a 18 months or so,  until they get traded for another brand new one.  We watched him buy well over a 1/4 million worth of new cars in a decade. There is no savings, no retirement plan, and the whole situation is a mess. He decided to retire in his late 50s, and determined that he better get a new motorhome while he still had income to qualify for the loan, since he was sick of working.( yea............let that sink in a bit)  He borrows $65K or so, on a new, low end, unreliable, poorly built, piece of shit. (This product being the #1 selling Class A unit sold in the US at the moment, BTW) He then retires on a low, and unreliable pension from a company that is terribly unstable, and likely to fail to uphold their pension obligation. He can't collect his SS yet, and never knows when his wife will lose family health care benefits, since she has a union job that is constantly in jeopardy. The house is paid off, but  located in one of the highest R.E tax school districts in the country. There are two car loans and a 20 year mortgage on the POS motorhome.  I seriously doubt that his income is enough to cover the three vehicle loans, much less a health care plan, if she loses coverage. The wife continues in her very low paying job, unable to leave him, since she just cant' afford to, and the whole mess slowly slides toward the edge of the cliff. 

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #216 on: January 19, 2017, 10:14:24 AM »

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.
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thebattlewalrus

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #217 on: January 19, 2017, 10:25:37 AM »

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.

Neighbor owned one and he was constantly fixing things on it and then winter would come around and he would pay to "winterize" it (Couple hundred $$), then pay to get it ready for spring (Couple hundred $$). There was always something to fix (leaks, seals, trim, electronics, etc...) He was venting to me one day about the constant multi-hundred dollar bills he was dropping. He would drive to Texas ($500 in fuel one way) and park it on a lot ($30 per day) while he was down there. It was incredible the expenses for those, almost +$10k per year to maintain and use on a regular basis for him.

paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #218 on: January 19, 2017, 10:53:20 AM »

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.

I have a ten year old, gas engine class A rig.  A similar new one would run about $100K, I bought it three years ago, in pristine condition, with low miles, for $44K.  It depreciates at least $5K a year, at this time. If I had to dump it quick, I would expect to see a check for about $25K from a dealer.  Unless you are very unmustachian, you really have no choice but to do your own maintenance, and any repair you can handle. The two big reasons for this is that labor rates at dealers and stationary repair garages are insane, with $125 to $150/HR being common.  Mobile repair services are a lot better option, at roughly half that rate. Repairs at dealers can often turn into nightmares featuring incompetent service, obscene prices, and long delays. The Camping World chain is probably the best example of this, with the enthusiast sites full of horror stories of waiting months for expensive repairs, often done repeatedly, without success.

I do nearly everything on my rig. This year I had professionals replace the windshield ($1850) and  service/repair the transmission and cooling system (a bit over $1K) other than that, oil changes, Lube, repairs to everything from the fridge, and AC to a slide out gear drive, have been DIY. Using dealer hourly rates, I probably did a minimum of $5-7K worth of DIY work in repairs and maintenance so far, at a fraction of that cost. I also flipped the interior, with new flooring ,counter tops and reupholstery.  It was mostly DIY, with $15K in upgrades for less than $3K in material, and subcontracting. 

Bottom line?  I really enjoy the lifestyle, but from a strictly financial perspective, it's a foolish thing to do, that I can easily afford. The DW and I have spent at least 80% of the last two years living in the thing, and have been true full timers since we sold our house at the end of last summer. We are coming to the end of the tour at this point, and will be settling on a "sticks and bricks" home at the end of the month.  We are both in agreement that we are not sure of how long we will hold on to this RV, but it will definitely be our last motorhome. We spent a decade and a half owning, and wearing out, inexpensive travel trailers. In comparison, motorhomes are  money eating machines, LOL.  As for the lifestyle in general, it can be really inexpensive, or a great way to spend vast sums, depending on what you want out of it.There are single folks out there that are happy and live well on $1500 a month, and couples who have motorhome mortgages that are more than that, since they drive the latest $400 K diesel powered palaces.  Accommodations can be free, or a prime site in a prime location can run thousands of dollars a month, it's all up to you.

MrsDinero

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #219 on: January 19, 2017, 11:04:32 AM »
Offering financing for anything longer than 36 months.

too many people fall into the trap of "oh it is ONLY this per month, I can afford that!  Not realizing that it is only that amount for the next 5-9 years.  I have seen offers for 96 months!

I just saw on another post a guy asking which student loan to pay off first and then later said he was going to finance a $35k for 72 months.


paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #220 on: January 19, 2017, 11:04:42 AM »

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.

Neighbor owned one and he was constantly fixing things on it and then winter would come around and he would pay to "winterize" it (Couple hundred $$), then pay to get it ready for spring (Couple hundred $$). There was always something to fix (leaks, seals, trim, electronics, etc...) He was venting to me one day about the constant multi-hundred dollar bills he was dropping. He would drive to Texas ($500 in fuel one way) and park it on a lot ($30 per day) while he was down there. It was incredible the expenses for those, almost +$10k per year to maintain and use on a regular basis for him.

This is a pretty typical experience. Unfortunately, if you can't or won't pick up a wrench, your going to have a pretty rough go of it. Winterizing takes me $8 in food grade antifreeze, and fifteen minutes of my time, it doesn't take a single tool, or half a clue, to do the job.  If I could find a dealer who could fit me in the schedule, I would expect no less than a $150 bill for the service. Most service and repairs preformed by a seasoned, mechanically inclined RVer are things that take less than $100 in parts (often no money at all) and would generate a minimum of a $3-800 bill at a big, slick dealership.  I have repeatedly repaired my fridge and water heater, as in a total of five times, and still haven't reached $150 in parts. I learned everything I needed to know on youtube.  Had I taken it to the dealer, it would of been $2000-2500 for the work, since the first thing they say after you report an issue with a major appliance is, "it's probably shot, and needs to be replaced".

mwulff

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #221 on: January 20, 2017, 05:54:50 AM »
Quote from: RWD link=topic=65918.msg1389844#msg1389844 date=[quote author=Kitsune


[quote author=mwulff link=topic=65918.msg1352403#msg1352403 date=1482658775
I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.
What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.
[/quote]

We bought a Tesla Model S 85. Service, sales and the car is awesome.

RWD

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #222 on: January 20, 2017, 07:18:14 AM »
I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.

What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.

We bought a Tesla Model S 85. Service, sales and the car is awesome.

I would have guessed Tesla. :)

AlanStache

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #223 on: January 20, 2017, 08:44:09 AM »
I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.

What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.

We bought a Tesla Model S 85. Service, sales and the car is awesome.

I would have guessed Tesla. :)

Stupid left coast hippies and there customer centric business methods!
Be the person Mr. Rogers knows you can be.

JLee

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #224 on: January 20, 2017, 08:50:16 AM »
I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.

What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.

We bought a Tesla Model S 85. Service, sales and the car is awesome.

I would have guessed Tesla. :)

Stupid left coast hippies and there customer centric business methods!

Lexus service is ridiculous, too.  I bought a used one last year and it didn't have license plate screws with it - I stopped by a Lexus dealer and the guy I found inside just gave me a couple from his desk.  They will also send you an owner's manual for free, if you need one.

Chris22

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #225 on: January 20, 2017, 08:54:05 AM »
I had a great dealer experience when buying my last car. (actually the only new car my DW and me ever owned).

Step 1. Go online, configure car as we'd like it.
Step 2. Pay a $2000 deposit.
Step 3. Get email that our order is confirmed
Step 4. Get email that our car is being produced
Step 5. Get eamil that our car is in transit.
Step 6. Get phone call to arrange pickup and registration details.

And finally show up on location, hand over cheque for the car. Get the keys and have the cellphone setup and drive home. Take a big detour and show the car to our families.

Best experience ever.

What manufacturer was this? You would think this would be more common. Considering how much people spend on new cars you'd expect them to demand they get exactly the color/trim/options that they want.

We bought a Tesla Model S 85. Service, sales and the car is awesome.

I would have guessed Tesla. :)

Stupid left coast hippies and there customer centric business methods!

Lexus service is ridiculous, too.  I bought a used one last year and it didn't have license plate screws with it - I stopped by a Lexus dealer and the guy I found inside just gave me a couple from his desk.  They will also send you an owner's manual for free, if you need one.

My mom's Lexus dealer will drive from quite far away in a new Lexus, leave the new Lexus (and keys) with my mom, drive her car back to the dealer for oil change and maintenance, etc, and then drive back and switch cars again.  And the service costs the same as it would if you just showed up and sat in their lounge while they performed it.  Unreal.  My next car will almost certainly be a Lexus due to their quality and service.
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Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #226 on: January 20, 2017, 09:07:41 AM »

So, yes, your observations are correct. There are lots of folks in the heartland who think nothing of taking a 20 year mortgage on a motorhome that they can't afford, and should of never even thought of buying. The only reason that the industry breaks sales records year after year is stupid people who bite on the, "it's only $495 a month to enjoy this lifestyle" bullshit.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.

Neighbor owned one and he was constantly fixing things on it and then winter would come around and he would pay to "winterize" it (Couple hundred $$), then pay to get it ready for spring (Couple hundred $$). There was always something to fix (leaks, seals, trim, electronics, etc...) He was venting to me one day about the constant multi-hundred dollar bills he was dropping. He would drive to Texas ($500 in fuel one way) and park it on a lot ($30 per day) while he was down there. It was incredible the expenses for those, almost +$10k per year to maintain and use on a regular basis for him.

I promised myself I would never own a boat or an RV that I could not get inside out of the weather. I've worked on several examples of both that just rotted away out in the weather. Tarp covers helped somewhat but eventually a pinhole in the cover develops unnoticed and the rain gets in.

I have always suspected that most "big boy toys" died from the effects of the weather rather than miles or hours on the engine.

paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #227 on: January 20, 2017, 09:58:40 AM »

I promised myself I would never own a boat or an RV that I could not get inside out of the weather. I've worked on several examples of both that just rotted away out in the weather. Tarp covers helped somewhat but eventually a pinhole in the cover develops unnoticed and the rain gets in.

I have always suspected that most "big boy toys" died from the effects of the weather rather than miles or hours on the engine.

Absolutely. Many are unaware that tires become unsafe due to degrading with age and sun exposure. After seven years, or so, tires really need to be replaced, regardless of age. So for the typical motorhome owner, they are replacing them at a cost of $2-6K when they are nearly new, tread wise.  The other weather effect is that many are felled by leaks, particularly roof leaks. When you spot issues in the interior, it tends to be an iceberg situation, since 90% of the damage is already done, and hidden in the structure. Motorhome engines, especially gas ones,  can be tricky, much like ambulances and other municipal vehicles, they may have low hours, but they are typically hard, ugly hours of being pushed to get a rolling house down the road.

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #228 on: January 20, 2017, 10:01:17 AM »
Anyone here ever rent an RV?

Always wondered how affordable and how clean that RV might be. My imagination serves up visions of a very cheap motel room on wheels in condition, though not price.

RWD

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #229 on: January 20, 2017, 10:10:55 AM »

Uturn

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #230 on: January 20, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »
Anyone here ever rent an RV?

Always wondered how affordable and how clean that RV might be. My imagination serves up visions of a very cheap motel room on wheels in condition, though not price.

I have twice.  The first time was when I was romanticizing about how nice it would be to have a travel trailer.  Imagine, just being able to back the truck up, hook up the hitch and wires, and be on the go!  So I rented a 19' trailer and set off for a week.  I found out that for me, it was just OK.  No bad, but not good enough to drop the cash on one.  I would happily take one for free though. 

The second time was when a buddy and I wanted to go ride through Arkansas for a week.  We looked into hotel rooms, but we both really wanted to be more outdoors in the evenings.  We looked at cabins, but it would require towing the motorcycles in order to take the right camping gear for a week.  Besides, my buddy really isn't into camping, but wanted more outdoor than a cabin.  We rented an RV that both bikes fit into.  It was great!  We got to our destination in comfort, had AC at night and a nice shower in the morning. 

I think that RV's are perfect rental items.  Yes, it is more expensive than a hotel room or pitching a tent, but more enjoyable if you are traveling with folks who are not into full blown camping.  Besides, I stay in enough hotels for work.  As far as cleanliness, I did not find that to be a problem.  Bring your own bedding and wipe down the surfaces with your favorite antimicrobial product if you want.  Some RV's come with dishes, some don't.  Both times I was able to walk through the unit before plopping down the deposit for the reservation. 
It's not about money, it's about mindset

ysette9

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #231 on: January 20, 2017, 11:11:43 AM »
We rented a small RV about 1.5 years ago to do a little camping with our baby back when she was the world's worst sleeper. I had romantic notions of what fun it would be based on the great fun we had as a family with our tent trailer when I was a kid. The RV was okay but a massive pain in the butt to drive. It is definitely not something I would do again but I do look forward to renting a tent trailer one day.
"It'll be great!"

gimp

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #232 on: January 20, 2017, 01:15:00 PM »
It's. it a given a car will be underwater on day one (downpayment??) and I think rolling in other debt is less common than you think; at least not common enough to pose a real threat to the market.

I want actual numbers about rolled-in debt. I don't know how common it is. I think it's too common for it not to be taken into account - but I don't like to guess, I want to see!

I'm sure with a bit of motivation and creativity a person could remove that GPS if they were so motivated. The sales agreement probably forbids it but if you are wrapped up in owning a particular car that you can't afford...

The GPS + interlock units are fairly easy to remove ...... if you know what you're doing. Dealers will never touch them, and most independent mechanics don't want to touch them because they don't want to deal with potential fall-out. Not to mention that some of them are the ones who actually install them in the first place. (Some independents really enjoy playing both sides - charge $150 to install one, then a week later charge $150 to remove it.)

They tend to be more complex than the average idiot can deal with. It's more than just unplugging it or popping a fuse.

The two big reasons for this is that labor rates at dealers and stationary repair garages are insane, with $125 to $150/HR being common.

Hah! I've been paying $100/hr or more in hourly labor for normal cars. $125 or $150/hr is totally reasonable... where I live. Actually, my preferred independent shop is known for RV repair.

That said, of course doing work yourself is great. In my shadetree experience, I'm about 3x slower than professionals - well, maybe 2x slower on simple things, maybe 5x slower on complex things I've never done. Based on my hourly post-tax post-savings rate (that is, disposable income), one hour of shop labor is around five hours of my time. So I figure I never lose on a job unless I fuck something up in the process.

RVs have a great benefit of being big and sitting tall, so you can easily get under one. On the down side, they're much heavier, so if you need to lift it, you need a much meatier jack and much much meatier jack stands.

I wonder what motorhome expenses really *are* like, just owning it or even living in it full-time. I've fantasized about being a full-time RV'er more than once and it strikes me as possibly a good way to retire. Just take off with the canary and the Chihuahua, and see the world. But maintenance couldn't possibly be cheap or easy.

On a somewhat different note, having criss-crossed the country a bunch of times over the past five years, I always recommend alternatives to RVs.

If you want a car you can live out of long-term, I would highly recommend a van or a pickup truck with one of those bed-mounted house thingies. Camper vans are the cheaper way to do it, but you'll need to put in a lot of sweat equity. Alternatively, a modern-small pickup truck (so like a Tacoma, which I believe is the smaller one between that and the Tundra) with another ten-ish grand for the thing you stick in the bed of the truck... it has surprisingly a lot inside. Everything you need, and it comes all ready to go, turnkey. But more expensive, obviously.

Why do I recommend this over an RV, completely ignoring costs?

In short: size, weight, capability, fuel, and power-to-weight (including courtesy). Let me explain.

Size: Many, and I mean _many_ of the best places in this country either prohibit RVs, or highly discourage RVs, or make RVs inconvenient. Basically every single national park has areas where RVs are either not permitted at all, or where there is special RV parking off to the side, or where RVs are allowed if under a certain size but highly not recommended. In addition, parking is always going to be a hassle. In addition, some roads with no posted signs are going to be a huge hassle due to being too narrow to want to drive an RV on it. And when I say some roads, I again mean many of the best roads in the best places.

Weight: These things are heavy, which makes everything more complex. From servicing to not being allowed on certain bridges to not being able to take sharp corners at a reasonable pace.

Capability: RVs suck at off-roading. Sure, you have decent ground clearance, but you're not going to be able to take many of the more popular off-road roads because... well, no can do, between being top-heavy, not having a proper suspension, etc. While you can find capable RVs, it's way easier to get a capable truck, or a camper van (stock or with a couple inch lift kit.) Not to mention that they're easy to get stuck, due to being heavier. And if you want AWD to make it easier, that's cost again.

Fuel: Ties back into weight. You'll burn a lot of fuel.

Power-to-weight: This is my final point, and it's one that (along with size) affects not just you but everyone else. Generally speaking, RVs have shit engines. It used to be that you could easily buy an RV with a big block 454, and with a bit of work and a thousand bucks you could get the fucker to make 350 (modern-rated) horsepower. Now, a lot of people here will scoff - what do you need so much power for? The weight, of course. These things are heavy as fuck. Try driving one without a big engine up a big hill. You go slower and slower, struggling to maintain speed. The thing downshifts to get you up, so you're burning fuel and heating up the engine and transmission a shitload. And the most beautiful parts of this country tend to be either mountainous, or have large ascents or descents. Basically every national park has areas where you need to be able to go up-hill. And again, size - you can't take corners for shit. So you'll be the asshole driving in Yosemite at 23 mph with two dozen cars behind you. And you're already making terrible time, so if you're like too goddamn many RV drivers, you don't use the turnouts, and you just piss everyone off, including me, so this is my selfish plea: don't get an RV unless you're courteous and you can drive quickly up hills and around corners.

RV owners tend to annoy me, RV renters tend to infuriate me. They're even worse about courtesy. I almost never go out for a fun drive in some lovely part of the country without getting stuck for miles behind an RV. All I pray for is a tenth of a mile of visibility and no upcoming traffic and no cops, because to put it bluntly, I've given up waiting for a sign of courtesy - I just put the hammer down and go.

Now, camper vans and trucks, properly outfitted, have few to none of these issues. Much better on gas. Can go off-road. Can take corners. Can go up hills. Can park anywhere. Can drive through narrows. Etc.

Of course, I also believe that RVs are too soft. Then again, I sleep in my corvette these days, so maybe my idea of what too much luxury is is different from yours.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 01:16:53 PM by gimp »

paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #233 on: January 21, 2017, 05:01:00 PM »

The two big reasons for this is that labor rates at dealers and stationary repair garages are insane, with $125 to $150/HR being common.

Hah! I've been paying $100/hr or more in hourly labor for normal cars. $125 or $150/hr is totally reasonable... where I live. Actually, my preferred independent shop is known for RV repair.

RVs have a great benefit of being big and sitting tall, so you can easily get under one. On the down side, they're much heavier, so if you need to lift it, you need a much meatier jack and much much meatier jack stands.



Labor rates on RVs have nothing in common with auto rates.  First, repairing a car is usually a well defined process, with flat rate guides and other data available to determine time required and fair market value.  Second, car mechanics tend to be a whole other, often quite superior breed, when compared to RV techs. Car mechanics tend to be properly trained, and have a lot of skin in the game, including certifications, continuing education, and tens of thousands of dollars of their own tools by their side. RV techs, can and often are, low paid helpers who tear through your RV while being loosely supervised by a knowledgeable tech. They may do the job efficiently, and competently the first time, or not.  It doesn't matter, since you are often being billed for a $12/hr helper, and  are paying a rate of 10-15 X his hourly rate, regardless of how well the job goes. I avoid getting raped by these outfits unless it's a dire emergency. A good example is a repair I did to a slide out mechanism. I had several mobile mechanics and a dealers who were not interested in doing the work. One estimated that it would involve removing the slide from the unit (forklift, straps, several employees involved) and be billed for at least a day's labor. I did it myself. The parts were under $20, and it took me three hours, without removing the slide.


As for Motorhomes in particular, being easy to service, since they have lots of room underneath, maybe, maybe not. My class A gas engine model sits up high, with a ton of space under. I'm parked next to a similar rig, on the same chassis, I couldn't hope to fit under that one. The class C van front rigs are not only heavy, but often ride extremely low to the ground.  Not much of a concern for most DIYers, generally, since most of what breaks and falls apart is located everywhere but underneath.

RysChristensen

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #234 on: January 22, 2017, 05:05:24 PM »
I bought a new-to-me minivan yesterday. The more I read these stories, the easier my time at the dealership looks! My saleslady got me basic estimated financing numbers (just to see), which we both promptly laughed lightly over and I asked if a business check would work. She said that indeed it would, and we'd be set after it cleared the bank and they did the registration etc. "You're the first person I haven't had to explain why there's a delay." WTF? Only frequent readership of the wall of shame prepared me for her nearly tearing up with joy at not having to explain why they would have to wait for a check to clear the bank. How do people not get that until it clears the bank, it's just a piece of paper that you can't be sure will magically transform into money? o_O

[Side note: totally unmustachian, but the slightly higher price is TOTALLY worth it to NOT be the one at the 7th circle of hell known as the RI DMV].

AnswerIs42

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #235 on: January 22, 2017, 06:01:55 PM »
The time I bought my last car was kind-of bizarre.

I did my research beforehand on the car I wanted, and searched the local dealers on their official used car program. Best value seemed to be one at a garage not too far away - 2 years old, 15,000 miles on the clock, 9000. Double what I'd ever spent on a car before that, but what the hell. So, I booked in a test drive and paid them a visit.

The car was in good condition, the test drive was fine. The car had something like 9500 on the sticker, so they were already giving a bit of an Internet discount. So, then we go inside to talk about money.

They offer me a pretty insulting trade-in on my old car - something like 100 for a 7 year old car. My car was a bit of a lemon, admittedly, but still! Hah! I decline to take up their trade-in offer, and decide to sell it privately myself.

They want to run a financing quote for me. I don't need financing - I've got the money ready to go in my bank account, and can pay by debit card here and now. They ask if they can run a quote anyway. I shrug - "Sure, if you like."
They come back with a quote where I'm paying over 10% interest. Hmm, no thanks. As I'd only be getting 2% interest or so on my savings, that seems pretty pointless.
"But wouldn't you rather keep your money available in your bank account getting interest?"
"Er, no, not really."
He actually got out a calculator then, and calculated how much interest I'd be getting on my money at 2% over 5 years. I give him a "Do I really look that stupid?" look.

By this point, I'm getting a bit pissed off. I say that I want to go home and think about it, just because he's so annoying.
"Is there anything we can do to convince you to buy the car today?" he responds.

Ha! Well, there's only one answer to that question, isn't there. "You could knock a bit off the price." I wasn't planning on haggling, but if you insist.

So he talks to his manager and they agree to pay for a free year's road tax (110). Fair enough. I agree to buy the car. Yay!

He prints out an invoice. Total at the bottom is 12,500. Huh? "Well, there's the extended warranty, alloy wheel insurance, breakdown cover, paint scratch insurance, blah blah blah."
"I don't want any of this. Can you take it off, please?"
He did, but he made me write a written explanation of why not. Sigh. I actually had to write "Not worth the money" six times and sign it. Finally, he let me actually pay for my car and leave.

Why do they make it so hard for you to give them your money? Do people really fall for this stuff?

Still, it's been over three years now, and I'm happy with the car. It hasn't got much power - but it's a hypermiler's dream (small 1.4 litre engine, wide spaced gears, manual transmission of course). I get 45MPG about (Imperial) on average, and up to 60MPG if I hypermile it (and it's a normal-sized car, petrol, not a hybrid). And the only thing that's needed replacing in that time (apart from disposables like tyres, oil, filters, windscreen wipers) is the coil pack, which I replaced myself.

One thing that did annoy me though, was that in order to fit a new stereo you have to get a huge kit that replaces what seems like half the dash, and has computer bits in it to simulate the car stuff that the manufacturer hid in the radio. My new stereo cost 150, but the fitting kit cost 190 on its own! Stupid modern cars. Facepunch needed to the designer there, I think.

MilesTeg

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #236 on: January 22, 2017, 07:35:57 PM »
He prints out an invoice. Total at the bottom is 12,500. Huh? "Well, there's the extended warranty, alloy wheel insurance, breakdown cover, paint scratch insurance, blah blah blah."
"I don't want any of this. Can you take it off, please?"
He did, but he made me write a written explanation of why not. Sigh. I actually had to write "Not worth the money" six times and sign it. Finally, he let me actually pay for my car and leave.

Why do they make it so hard for you to give them your money? Do people really fall for this stuff?

Yes, they do, in droves. For a lot of people, they even know they are getting screwed, they just can't handle the social/etc. pressure of the situation.

You reminded me of one thing that happened to me when buying a car. I negotiate the deal, agree on a price, and get sent to the "finance office". Of course, the "finance office" was actually just "try to get more money out of them, part 2".

This is where the idiocy of the "extended warranty" came in. Of course those things are utter shite, so I politely decline. After several more rounds of the more usual "protect your investment!" I finally get the most ridiculous attempt which was: "well, I have a 20% off coupon that I was going to give my son, but I'll let you have it!". I literally had to choke back a belly roar and instead just reiterated that I had no interest.

AnswerIs42

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #237 on: January 23, 2017, 01:44:44 PM »
This is where the idiocy of the "extended warranty" came in. Of course those things are utter shite, so I politely decline. After several more rounds of the more usual "protect your investment!" I finally get the most ridiculous attempt which was: "well, I have a 20% off coupon that I was going to give my son, but I'll let you have it!". I literally had to choke back a belly roar and instead just reiterated that I had no interest.
That's hilarious :D - I don't think I would have been able to resist laughing at that one.

MgoSam

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #238 on: January 23, 2017, 01:56:44 PM »

One thing that did annoy me though, was that in order to fit a new stereo you have to get a huge kit that replaces what seems like half the dash, and has computer bits in it to simulate the car stuff that the manufacturer hid in the radio. My new stereo cost 150, but the fitting kit cost 190 on its own! Stupid modern cars. Facepunch needed to the designer there, I think.

Probably too late but next time I recommend going to Crutchfield and looking for an after market stereo there. I paid around $90 for mine and including a kit to fit it in my car (same problem as you as the stereo had to blend into the console) and got great customer service. Installing it myself put a huge smile on my face.

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #239 on: January 23, 2017, 03:25:03 PM »
That is where I bought my last stereo and on sale it came with the installation kit for free as I recall.

Dave1442397

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #240 on: January 23, 2017, 06:51:53 PM »
Last time we bought a car I had everything ready in advance. I made the deal via email, arrived with a check from my credit union and had already added the car to my insurance as of that day. The salesperson asked if I wanted to transfer the plates, and I said only if it's cheaper than getting new ones, as the registration still had three months to go and I didn't want to pay for that twice.

After overhearing this, the finance guy just looked at me and said "I'm guessing that you're not going to be interested in the extended warranty or other products we have, right?". Right. So that part didn't take long. They took the check, I signed the paperwork, and that was it. No sales pitch.

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #241 on: January 24, 2017, 09:37:09 AM »
Does anyone else think that if dealers were actually affordable places to do business that they would make more money on volume than trying to squeeze every last dollar out of every transaction?

Our local dealer is not the only dealer with this problem. I've used dealers in other states and other cities and for other brands.

I can not afford (will not?) to use our local dealer for anything b/c everything is so damn expensive. I can't buy parts there anymore, can't use their service department, and it won't likely be a place I buy my next car and I do like the brand.

I can buy OEM parts affordably from another dealer several states away from reasonable prices and I either do the work myself or use a local mechanic.

If our local dealer was affordable I'd use them many times per year but I cringe at the thought of trying to do business with them b/c most of the time they are the absolutely highest price for anything. 

Spork

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #242 on: January 24, 2017, 09:42:35 AM »
Does anyone else think that if dealers were actually affordable places to do business that they would make more money on volume than trying to squeeze every last dollar out of every transaction?


I certainly think many dealers do operate that way.  Locating them can be challenging sometimes.  I know I've run across multiple Toyota dealers that were just awful and full of themselves.  In one case, I drove 30 miles north, dealt with a Toyota dealer there that dealer traded the car I was looking at from the snooty Toyota dealer.  I don't know how much volume they did, but they got my business.
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paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #243 on: January 24, 2017, 09:56:54 AM »
I honestly can't imagine even using a dealer for service. The small amount of Honda warranty work I had done, over the years, has been a F'ekin nightmare. They play a game called, "First, we need to get it on the lift for the free safety inspection", then they spend a few minutes poking around your car, desperately searching for services and repairs to sell you. You can pretty much guarantee that you will be told that the  engine air filter and cabin air filters are in need of replacement, for 4-5X as much as you could DIY them, with ZERO mechanical skill needed. If they do any actual work, there is a significant chance they will fuck that up also. The only time a dealer changed oil on my CRV, I had to take it home and drain almost two quarts out of it. It takes 4.2 Qts of oil, how an idiot with a Honda uniform on ever thought it took a gallon and a half of oil will always amaze me.  As for parts, it's easy to purchase factory parts online for 30% off MSRP, with no tax, from the few Honda dealers that have a clue as to how internet commerce actually works.

Spork

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #244 on: January 24, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
I honestly can't imagine even using a dealer for service. The small amount of Honda warranty work I had done, over the years, has been a F'ekin nightmare. They play a game called, "First, we need to get it on the lift for the free safety inspection", then they spend a few minutes poking around your car, desperately searching for services and repairs to sell you. You can pretty much guarantee that you will be told that the  engine air filter and cabin air filters are in need of replacement, for 4-5X as much as you could DIY them, with ZERO mechanical skill needed. If they do any actual work, there is a significant chance they will fuck that up also. The only time a dealer changed oil on my CRV, I had to take it home and drain almost two quarts out of it. It takes 4.2 Qts of oil, how an idiot with a Honda uniform on ever thought it took a gallon and a half of oil will always amaze me.  As for parts, it's easy to purchase factory parts online for 30% off MSRP, with no tax, from the few Honda dealers that have a clue as to how internet commerce actually works.

Yep.  With my last recall fix, the service manager pulled me aside and gave me a stern warning:
him: I can see this car is really well maintained... and I am guessing you're doing it yourself, but ... the mechanic found something that REALLY needs to be addressed immediately.
me: um... okay... What?
him: the battery terminal is severely corroded.  It really needs to be replaced immediately.  It's a matter of personal safety.
me: okay.  I'll look at it.
him: We really should take care of that.  It WILL cause you problems.  VERY SOON.
me: I'll handle it.

When I looked at it... it looked fine.  And unless something is just corroded to a point of there being nothing left, usually cleaning with a wire brush and coating with dielectric grease is fine.  I left it alone and did nothing.  Two years later: It still looks fine.  And nothing blew up by ignoring it.
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ysette9

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #245 on: January 24, 2017, 11:47:23 AM »
Quote
few years back I went to a dealer to buy a car with the Mrs and handed them a USAA loan certificate/check for the final price. Dealer took it back to his financial manager and he eventually came back and said they had never see this and they couldn't take it BUT if I told him the loan info from USAA they would match it. I called them out on it since it is very common to use

This. We ran into the same resistance when buying a car because the dealership claimed it was hard working with USAA. I call bullshit. USAA is a dream to work with from my end and the thing is basically a GD check! Just cash the sucker and let us worry about the loan details on our end.

Even sleezier, they couldn't beat but only match the terms of the loan. We told them several times we were going with our own financing, and yet when signing the papers, there were the documents for their loan. Thankfully I asked what it was before signing and pushed back. The finance person got very grumpy and downright rude at that point, so I think that meant they weren't earning much money off of us.
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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #246 on: January 24, 2017, 01:16:09 PM »
I honestly can't imagine even using a dealer for service. The small amount of Honda warranty work I had done, over the years, has been a F'ekin nightmare. They play a game called, "First, we need to get it on the lift for the free safety inspection", then they spend a few minutes poking around your car, desperately searching for services and repairs to sell you. You can pretty much guarantee that you will be told that the  engine air filter and cabin air filters are in need of replacement, for 4-5X as much as you could DIY them, with ZERO mechanical skill needed. If they do any actual work, there is a significant chance they will fuck that up also. The only time a dealer changed oil on my CRV, I had to take it home and drain almost two quarts out of it. It takes 4.2 Qts of oil, how an idiot with a Honda uniform on ever thought it took a gallon and a half of oil will always amaze me.  As for parts, it's easy to purchase factory parts online for 30% off MSRP, with no tax, from the few Honda dealers that have a clue as to how internet commerce actually works.

I've never really used my dealership's service center. I've been able to use a local mechanic for all of the basic servicing that takes place and because it's a reputable brand, '06 Sentra, it hasn't really required any major maintenance items, just the usual replacing of belts, tires, oil, etc. That's not to say it's without quirks, a couple of the model years, including mine, have an issue with the fuel pump that makes it so that if you attempt to cold start the engine will have to turn over at least a few times, and possibly quite a few, before it catches. It's a pretty known problem, essentially a design issue where when the car is off the gas empties out of the connecting cable between the fuel pump and the engine, and you have to get that air out before you can start your engine. It's not really an issue because you can just turn your battery on for 10-20 seconds before starting and 95% of the time that takes care of it entirely.

Well, last year I had to take it to the Nissan service center to get my Takata airbags replaced. It was part of an official recall so the replacement was free but the recall was very explicit about having to get it done at the Nissan service center. So I take it in, and remind the person who I drop it off with about turning on the battery for at least a few seconds before cranking the engine, someone hops in my still running car, drives it the servicing area, and then I start waiting for my airbag to be replaced. Once this has been done, I get brought out of the waiting room and the customer service person lets me know that all vehicles that get services are eligible for a free car wash (guess it helps people feel better about getting ripped off) including mine, and would I want one? So, sure I'm down for a free car wash, and the tech who'd been working on it immediately jumps in and cranks the engine and it just keeps turning and turning and turning and then finally catches. The customer service guy turns to me, and having forgotten about turning the battery on and apparently not relaying the request to the tech, and suggests that I should get my fuel pump replaced.

At this point I'm just incredulous because
 1)It's not the fuel pump that's at issue, it's the design of how the cable allowing fuel to flow to the engine was implemented on this Make/Model. You have to get a whole kit from Nissan to fix the issue, which is supposed to keep the fuel from flowing back away from the engine (as best I can understand it), and even then it's pretty hit or miss. I don't really expect any one who's not a Sentra owner to know this, but I'm at a freaking Nissan dealership service center.
 2)The degree in which how I told him to take care of my car was in one ear and out the other. Not even the prolonged turning over the engine was enough to prompt this guy to remember that maybe I said something to him about avoiding this issue to begin with.

So obviously the best course of action after all of this is to send me reminders in the mail every month to bring my Sentra in to get the fuel pump replaced. So yeah, I wouldn't go back even if they were cheaper than other service centers, which they're obviously not.
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paddedhat

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #247 on: January 24, 2017, 03:22:39 PM »


Yep.  With my last recall fix, the service manager pulled me aside and gave me a stern warning:
him: I can see this car is really well maintained... and I am guessing you're doing it yourself, but ... the mechanic found something that REALLY needs to be addressed immediately.
me: um... okay... What?
him: the battery terminal is severely corroded.  It really needs to be replaced immediately.  It's a matter of personal safety.
me: okay.  I'll look at it.
him: We really should take care of that.  It WILL cause you problems.  VERY SOON.
me: I'll handle it.

When I looked at it... it looked fine.  And unless something is just corroded to a point of there being nothing left, usually cleaning with a wire brush and coating with dielectric grease is fine.  I left it alone and did nothing.  Two years later: It still looks fine.  And nothing blew up by ignoring it.

Yea, the best part is that, had you fallen for their bullshit, the bill would of had $50 in labor and another $5-10 in supplies. The reality is that a tech. would of mixed up a bit of Baking Soda and water in a paper cup and dumped that on the terminal, which would immediately removed the corrosion and made it look shiny and new. Next it would of gotten a two second shot of red battery terminal protectant spray from a can. Total of five minutes work, and $0.25 in material. The same dealer that overfilled my oil was told to NOT do the "free safety inspection" and totally ignored my request. They then told me that all the tires, with 3/16" of tread and nowhere near the wear bars, needed to be changed immediately. I told them to not worry about it, but they didn't give up and returned to the customer lounge for another round of how concerned they were about my "dangerous" tires.  Bunch of lizards, all of them.

Just Joe

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #248 on: January 24, 2017, 03:41:46 PM »
So, sure I'm down for a free car wash, and the tech who'd been working on it immediately jumps in and cranks the engine and it just keeps turning and turning and turning and then finally catches. The customer service guy turns to me, and having forgotten about turning the battery on and apparently not relaying the request to the tech, and suggests that I should get my fuel pump replaced.

Heck that probably gets them alot of work each month b/c the average person doesn't know jack about their car. I have an older domestic sedan that behaves the same way. Let the fuel pump run for a few seconds until it switches off (you can hear it) and it fires immediately when I turn the key just like my import car.

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Re: Ridiculous Things Dealerships Say and Do
« Reply #249 on: January 24, 2017, 03:52:51 PM »
So, sure I'm down for a free car wash, and the tech who'd been working on it immediately jumps in and cranks the engine and it just keeps turning and turning and turning and then finally catches. The customer service guy turns to me, and having forgotten about turning the battery on and apparently not relaying the request to the tech, and suggests that I should get my fuel pump replaced.

Heck that probably gets them alot of work each month b/c the average person doesn't know jack about their car. I have an older domestic sedan that behaves the same way. Let the fuel pump run for a few seconds until it switches off (you can hear it) and it fires immediately when I turn the key just like my import car.

Ah the free car wash.  Another story...

Wife's car goes to dealer for recall.  I get the free car wash.  When I get home, I notice the mirrors.  The non-mirror side is -- or was -- a shiny black plastic.  They had blasted them so hard with a power washer as to take the finish off of them.  They now were matte black and looked like a toddler had sanded them unevenly with 80 grit sand paper.  I just shook my head.

When my car went in for a recall (same dealer) I am offered the free car wash.  No thank you, I say.  The last free car wash you gave me ruined the finish on the mirrors.  Okay, they say.  When I go to pick it up, it's washed.  Mirrors on my car are damaged in exactly the same fashion.  This was 6 months or more later.  I can only wildly assume they were blasting the finish off of 25 cars a day for every work day in that 6 months.
Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight