Relatives who just don't get it

[penguintroopers]

Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

[economista]

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

[Just Joe]

I read you history there and thought - ahh, yes - the 60s or the 70s. Nope - that's recent. Good luck, you sound like you're doing great.

I find that DW and I are intolerant of intolerant people like your uncle. We have them in our family too.

[MishMash]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

[vivophoenix]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

[MishMash]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't. 

[ysette9]

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

[economista]

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

In my view you are being an excellent example for your younger cousins! Good job.

Thank You! :)

[saguaro]

In any event, I didn't buy a house until my mid-30s.  I wonder if the boomer/ millennial parent/child thing depends on location and income?

Boomer here who did not buy a house until mid-30s, DH was 40, both of us with Silent Generation parents.

We lived in 3 apartments over 12 years before making the homeownership jump.  We are in a large Midwestern metro area.   Prices were a bit too steep for us to get into homeownership when we were first married, plus both of us were recent college graduates just starting out in our careers.  So it wasn't just the money, it was also the fact that we didn't know if we would necessary stay in the area.  Renting was not just the more affordable option (and allowing us to save more) but it also would allow us to more easily relocate to be closer to a job, which incidentally we ended up doing.

But we couldn't make our Silent Generation parents understand that.   Both my and DH's parents wrung their hands over "how we were throwing away our money", or "we need home equity" or "if we wait, we will be priced out of the market" among other worries.    My parents moved into a house immediately upon marriage, DH's parents got into their own home after FIL got out of the military, just five years after their marriage.  So I get both of them were homeowners earlier than us and couldn't understand what we were waiting for.

And then when we did buy a home, it was a newly built townhome that we choose as the best option for us.  Then came the statements that we "weren't in a real house", that it was  "only a condo" and when will we move into "a real house" so we can do right, proper homeowner things like mowing our own lawn and shoveling snow*.   Because we still weren't doing what they did. 

We could have moved into a larger home eventually, but in the end determined that our first home was just fine for us and we are still there.  In fact, I think it was a huge factor in us having the savings we have now. 

* ETA: we do actually shovel snow, the snow removal folks can't shovel our deck.

[Cowardly Toaster]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

You need to figure things out with your husband with what to do. This kind of thing will destroy a marriage if it goes long enough.

[gaja]

Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

[MgoSam]

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

[MrMoogle]

6 years ago, my grandfather passed away.  A month or so after, my grandmother got a phone call from her niece.  She had just invested ~$50k into an app and thought my grandmother should get in too.  It's the chance of a lifetime.  My grandfather had handled all their financials, so my dad and I were digging into everything to simplify her life (it was a mess, he still had paper stocks, some of which were companies that had been bought and sold multiple times since they were called what they were, they had a dozen savings accounts, a dozen brokerage accounts).  Luckily my dad talked her out of it, basically pointing out that only like 5% of new businesses last a year.  She also agreed she shouldn't make any big financial decisions right after my grandfather's death.

A few weeks later, I saw her and we talked about it.  It sounded like the app was supposed to be a medical app that allowed you to view X-rays and other scans.  One of her nieces is a doctor, so she would likely know if this is something that's in demand or not, so it seemed like it could have potential.  Then I asked about the financials.  "Well we'd make back our investments quickly, since the app is going for $1000, and all doctors are going to need this."  That's when I backed my dad's statement, that this probably wasn't an investment for her.  Can you imagine anyone paying $1000 for any app?  That's crazy.  She was disappointed, she still wanted to invest.

3 years ago, when I saw GM, she brought it back up, saying how well it was doing and how everyone was using it.  She was disappointed that she hadn't gotten in when she could have.  So I asked how much her nieces had made, to which she did not have an answer, but was confident it was lots of money.

I saw GM last weekend, and she brought it up again.  This time to express her brilliance of how she declined to invest in the company.  The company is dying, and her nieces never got a penny back.  And the doctor niece had spent a lot of effort marketing the product.  She saw through the company to what it really was and was really disappointed her nieces didn't listen to her when they invested.  She tried to save them so much money.

I had nothing I could say.

[mm1970]

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

So he thinks he's a man of his word and doesn't want things handed to them, and yet he expects you to take care of his problems? Yeah I wouldn't tolerate that shit in my house.

If he's a "man of his word" then he ought to have paid his bills already. If he's "independent" and "doesn't want things handed to him" then he shouldn't be mooching off you like a hungry infant that won't let go of the nipple. Furthermore, if he's "responsible" he shouldn't have gotten up to his eyeballs in debt to begin with. The only thing he's "under attack" from is his grandiose self-image, which bears no resemblance to reality that I can see.

There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

People like your FIL are more than willing to drive your household into the ground by taking from you in order to give to others and to fill the gap between their consumption and their means. He would rather spend through your savings, ruin your cash flow, and drive you and his own son-- into bankruptcy than declare it himself, simply because protecting his precious ego is that much more important. That's why he's willing to let you liquidate assets to get his debts current. It's also why he's unwilling to say "no" to the gold digging. In his mind, he's committed to the notion that it's OK to take from you to give to somebody else.

The key difference between someone who declares bankruptcy, or someone who makes use of social programs, and your father is this: when someone makes use of a social program, a food bank, a charity, or bankruptcy proceedings the hit is spread among hundreds or even thousands of people and household. What your FIL is doing is seeing to it that the hit is absorbed by just one household: yours! Even if he made no further requests on your resources, it will take months or maybe even years to put your family finances back where they used to be.

[iluvzbeach]

^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

[LeRainDrop]

There are two kinds of people in the entitlement class: the ones who sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer, and the "proud, fiercely independent" ones who are too good to lower themselves to seek or accept any form of public aid, and who therefore sponge off their families and friends. The latter type are the ones who destroy entire families. Nobody ever put their brother, sister, parent, or child in debt by applying for a public program, declaring bankruptcy, or cashing a disability check.

You've left out the third kind of person in the entitlement class:  the ones who BOTH sponge off the public systems funded by the taxpayer (sometimes fraudulently) AND sponge off their families and friends (often manipulatively and/or which heaps of abuse).  Exhibit 1 is my first brother.  Absolutely toxic.

[Step37]

Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I've never tried any meal deliveries, but have heard from other people that the portions often are so large that you get two dinners (or dinner+lunch) out of one. If that is the case here, it might be a good deal for the promotion period.

My sister gets this service and I’ve tried a few of the meals while visiting (they were tasty). Aside from the fact that it’s multiple times more expensive than buying groceries and cooking for yourself (and my sister is really not in a position to afford this luxury), the amount of packaging/waste makes me physically ill. I’ve also heard that the working conditions at the food prep places are absolutely abysmal. I would not do it no matter how good the deal was.

[Imma]

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

This still happens today in rural, backwards areas.  My family is from a rural area and we are catholic.  Women live at home until they get married (usually between 18-22).  I was the first person in my family to graduate from college.  When I was a freshman in college I opted to live in an apartment instead of at home or in the dorms.  This immediately started a huge family fight and my uncle tried to say I was no longer welcome in his house and I wasn't allowed to see my cousins, as I was obviously a bad influence.  Girls were supposed to live at home until they were married, and an unmarried girl can't possibly be doing good things if she is living outside of her parents house.  At 25 I bought a house all on my own and got engaged to my DH, who promptly moved in with me.  From that point forward I really wasn't allowed in his house anymore.  I didn't quit my job when we got married so that is another strike against me, and we've been married for 4 months now and I haven't made any announcements about a baby coming, so pretty soon I'll be able to add another line item about how terrible of an example I am setting for my younger cousins.   

I'm sure it's different in different environments. Lots of things were happening in the 60s and 70s but it took some time before those developments trickled down to where we lived. I'm pretty sure my parents and in-laws are from a fairly "backwards" area. They are probably the age of your oldest siblings (considering your username) and they grew up in rural, working class, strongly catholic environments. My parents married aged 20. I'm sure religion had something to do with everyone staying home until marriage. Moving out for a woman was improper and for a man it wasn't practical because he was supposed to save up to buy a house. For young women, everything revolved around getting married or finding someone to marry. By the time I grew up in the same town in the 90s, things were different, but it's still a relatively conservative place. Me and my friends all moved away as soon as we could and I find it increasingly hard to connect to the people who stayed there, when I meet them when I'm back in my hometown.

Yep, rural and Catholic.  My eldest siblings were born in the early 1950s.

Even when I was turning 16 in the 1980s, my dad told me I should get married and have "an easy life", which apparently he told all my older sisters too.  And nobody listened.

I was the first in my immediate family to go to college right after HS.  But the whole family was trending that way.  A couple of older cousins were nurses (RNs and LPNs).  The male versions went into the military.  My year we all went to college (4 cousins the same age).  By the time you roll down to the youngest cousins, 6-10 years younger than me, you've got two women with PhDs - in astro-physics and micro-biology.

Our rural Catholic area seems to be changing!

I had one uncle (about your age, the youngest in the family) who didn't get married until he was in his late 30s (and promptly divorced) and is now married to a woman with several kids from several previous marriages. Other than that, everyone from that generation stuck to the script.

But in my generation things are changing. As the oldest, I was the first to go to college, but after me everyone went. None of us are married yet, I am living in sin with my fiance and no one really cares. None of us still go to church, but my grandma has grown milder now she's in her 80s and she says she's sure God knows we're good people. I fled from the village because I was tired of the social control there, but I'd love to go back to a more rural life some day.

[MishMash]

^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate. 

[Sibley]

^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Good for you!!!!!!

[ringer707]

Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

This was my mom. We did have a larger wedding because it was what I wanted, but I still did it in a city park and and kept decorations and flowers very low key. Among the many things my mom suggested we do for our wedding so we wouldn't like cheap were:

1. Have me buy a dress almost double my budget that I didn't even like as much as another dress because "it's only one day." I looked at her and said "Right. It's literally only one day."
2. Rent a limo to take us to/from the reception that was 2 miles from the hotel we were staying at. No thanks, we can drive our Hyundai to and from.
3. She was FURIOUS that we chose to have our bridal party/immediate family only rehearsal dinner at a very popular local pizza place since I didn't want my in-laws to shell out a crazy amount for a rehearsal dinner. Especially given that they designed and paid for ALL paper products (save the dates, invitations, thank you notes) since FIL is a graphic designer. It's a fun restaurant and we had a great time and enjoyed some great pizza.

I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting. Whenever she came up with something like that, I just told her to get a price quote on it to see how much it would cost HER and she usually dropped it after that.

[Imma]

Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.

[Panly]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August. 
All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because ...

al least one of your (ex-) relatives "got it" ...

[zolotiyeruki]

Nothing new yet, but I'm gearing up for a weekend of wedding planning with my mom and sister.  Sister has already bitched a bit about the way we're planning things, because we're not having a big fancy venue reception or a ceremony at all, and I wasn't planning on buying a dress.  She insisted that I can't possibly get married in a dress I already have, it somehow "wouldn't be a wedding" unless I buy a traditional wedding gown.  She shut up when I offered to let her pay for it.  Based on my chat with my mom last night, it sounded like she will join the chorus on the dress, but it's possible she is intending to pay for it (she bought my sister's wedding gown, which was never worn as they didn't end up having a public ceremony), in which case I'll let her win.  We're going to be firm about the small private ceremony and restaurant reception, though!  Gotta brace myself for the arguments.

You know you don't have to plan it with them, right? Go ahead if it's important to you, but you can just say 'thanks, but no thanks, we can plan our wedding without your help'.

^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

[Rowellen]

^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

[merula]

^^^ This.  The simple response is "you got to plan your own wedding the way you wanted.  Please let me plan mine."

This can easily backfire, as many women who are now mothers of people who are getting married had their weddings planned by their mothers. If Raenia's grandmother planned her mother's wedding, the mother may have the expectation of more involvement on that basis.

[Just Joe]

^+1

TGS, this resonates with me on so many levels about my own father. Fantastic post, quite possibly one of the best I’ve read.

Yup, he hit the nail on the head.  You will hear no arguments from me, FIL is spineless and delusional.  He swears when his back gets better that he will get another full time job.  He's 71 and hasn't worked in 4 years...

The ex wife is livid, screaming that he can take it out of his investment accounts (he's got some but not enough to cover his ass for the rest of his life), I point blank told her, Nope...not gonna happen, he's in this situation because of you and your overspending for the past 15 years, you will never see another dime out of him, he needs that money to prepare for his future, of which, you and your wants are no longer a concern.  She started screaming at me on the phone and I said "listen, you and DHS sisters, hoisted him onto us, told us he "was dying" and "needed rescuing" and yet none of you, who LIVED 10 minutes away did a damn thing, Frankly, I think you are an evil bitch, so I don't really care what you want, nor do I care if you despise me.  I have one goal for the next year and that is to get him physically and financially better and out of my damn house.  He will NOT be paying anything that he doesn't absolutely have to, and that list includes paying you".  She hung up on me.  Don't care, it actually felt good getting that off my chest.

FYI, he has a year and a half timeline to clean this all up, then he is out, there is no if ands or buts, we have a signed lease set to terminate.

Awesome. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall to see her face during that phone call.

I'll bet the air crackled with electricity around the phones during that call. GOOD FOR YOU.

[CU Tiger]

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!

Yup, that's pretty much how DH and I feel.  He's fine so long as I buy his beer, and feed him (PS he's too lazy to even microwave leftovers, and NO I don't do this for him) and harp on him about his bills. But heaven forbid his ex states she wants something...he'll bend over backwards for that one since he's a "man of his word".  Minus the rent he's supposed to pay us and doesn't.

The next time he gives you that “I’m a man of my word” bullshit, there is a calm (and maybe effective?) way to handle that, rather than unloading on him the way I am sure you would like to.

Some backstory. My mother, a devout Christian, had a contractor who was doing some work on her house. This guy was also a very pious Christian, and he and my Mom would have some great discussions about faith, etc. The contractor was a friendly guy and Mom liked him, except for one thing…he was unreliable. He’d tell her he’d be over at X o’clock on Tuesday…and on Tuesday he’d be a no-show. Or he would come hours late, and then decide he didn’t have enough time to get anything done, so he’d leave, telling her he’d be back some other time. You know how annoying it is when they tell you they’ll be there between 11-1 and you rearrange plans to be there and they show up at 4:15…it was getting on Mom’s nerves.

One day, in the middle of a chat, he repeated something he’d said to her before, which was something like, “I think of my work as part of my witness (Evangelical Christian for “how I share with everyone that Jesus is my Savior”). He probably meant the QUALITY of his work, but this gave Mom an opportunity. She told him that when he did not keep his word by showing up WHEN HE SAID HE WOULD, and not calling and letting her know if he was running late…he was providing a piss-poor witness. He was treating his customers rudely and not being a stand-up guy. Okay, I’m sure Mom did not use exactly those words, but she got the point across. Knowing Mom, she also said that she liked him and liked the quality of the work he did (because my Mom is Southern nice) but that this one thing was damaging his idea of his work = his witness.

She said he was at first sort of shocked – because Mom is a soft-spoken, nice-Grandma type woman, and here she was schooling him on something he felt proud of, but then he said he had not considered it in that way before. And here is where the miracle occurred (cue the heavenly harps and the light shining from above) he actually improved on being there when he said he would, or at least being punctilious about calling her and letting her know when arrival times/dates had changed.

Would something like that work on your FIL? The next time he starts on being a man of his word and doing the RIGHT THING, could you reasonably observe that a man of his word would treat the members of his family (his children) with respect and would consider if bankruptcy would make their lives better. Using some of The Grim Squeaker’s arguments about how services/bankruptcy are set up to spread out the financial consequences of his bad situation, rather than dumping it all in your lap, might help.

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

[MishMash]

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

[Pioneerw2b]

Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I heard a commercial the other day about this.... when I heard the "$10.00 a person" I yelled at the radio, "WHAT ??"  I had 4 children and I am pretty certain I managed to get dinner on the table for less than $10.00 total for 6 people. What am I missing ? Do people really lack meal planning skills ? They are plastered all over Pinterest. Do they lack time to shop for groceries ? What are these busy people's lives so full of that they cannot carve out time to go to the grocery store ? I am not being rhetorical...I really would like to know.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Try setting him up with Madame Bovary, if only for the lulz.

[Pioneerw2b]

My leech of a FIL moved in with us in August.  He has near six figures in debt due to spending issues, and his trophy wife divorced him and took him for A LOT of money in 2016, racked up close to six figures in lawyers bills that he had to pay for her.  He is in a hair on fire debt emergency and was living in a hotel room so we moved him in to try and clean up the mess, get his health back together and teach him that he's not going to be making 300k a year anymore.

It's been a rough road but I thought we were turning a corner, he's been keeping the spending more in check than he was (still a ways to go but better), he is waiting on a check to come in to pay off one of his credit cards, we got the MRI done and are awaiting the results.  Sounds hopeful right?

Nope.

DH gets a text from the ex wife saying, you need to set up your fathers account to pay me child support, it was due on the 1st for 575.  Now how old is this child one may ask?  DH's brother is TWENTY.  The divorce decree stipulated that child support stopped at 18.  He's been paying child support for an adult child for 2 years.  His brother didn't even live at home in high school, he lived at a boarding school.  DH told trophy wife he doesn't have the cash for it and she FLIPPED out and called FIL to berate him.  He just listened and didn't have the balls to tell her he is not going to be paying 30% of his monthly income to her for an adult child so now I am going to have to do it (DH is having flashbacks to his own divorce so doesn't want to deal). 

This woman took him for 800k almost half of that was in a retirement account that was from before their marriage but FIL couldn't provide 15 years of records that showed no co mingling since the company only maintains 10 years of records so she got half.  She also forced him at age 64 to purchase a 1.5 MILLION dollar house, on an interest only mortgage because "it was better for the boys school" they only had 2 years left in their perspective schools (FIL may be the laziest most spineless person I've ever met).  He then lost his job, and blew through savings holding onto the house.  After two years when it became clear no one would employ him at his age, they sold the house.  They moved into the hotel and she served him with divorce paperwork a week later and he was blindsided. 

All this gold digging and he STILL can't tell her no because "he doesn't want her to hate him".  Well I don't mind her hating me, because I frankly want to punch her in her gold digging face.  FIL is so bad off that DH and I have shoveled out thousands bringing his debts current and here he is wanting to pay his ex wife child support for an adult....I told him, you pay her, you better find a new place to live.

Sounds like your FIL should consider filing for bankruptcy. Really. Stop paying his debts with your money too.

I've spent the past four months trying to convince him that's the way to go.  But bankruptcy is only for "poor Democrats who want things handed to them"  and "I'm a man of my word"  He's pretty much the poster child for old white privileged male that thinks he's under attack by "the man" (Obama should be in jail, Hillary is a crook, Dems want a welfare state, Fox News is AWESOME). 

We have stopped paying his debts due to his inaction.  He was shocked this month at all the collection calls/emails he got.  I as like...well did you pay them?

i mean of course, he doesn't want things handed to him, such as your money, home or food.

tell him to stay strong in his convictions of independence!



I laughed out loud at your answer :)

I wish there was a way to react to posts like you can on the "Friendface" type pages

[MudDuck]

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

He should run for president.

[MishMash]

Or maybe not. Some people are just idiots and you CANNOT TELL THEM ANYTHING. I know some of those people too!

Yea, I'm going to go with the above.  He's not an idiot, he's a narcissist though that thinks what he knows/believes is correct and everyone else is wrong.  And the he believes the situation he is in is EVERYONE elses fault, not his own.  His big scapegoat for years was Obama and the government screwing with his job prospects.  He fails to see his 1. lack of punctuality 2. inability to listen to his bosses and 3. lack of ability to meet deadlines has cost him every job he's ever had.  Instead he threw money into get rich quick schemes that usually ended up with HUGE  losses (I mean I've seen his tax returns and some folks here could retire just off what he lost over the years).  Top that with a housewife of Orange County and poof he earned roughly 6-7.5 million (he generally averaged 300k/year some higher some lower) in 25 years and have almost nothing left to show for it.

He still doesn't see it as any fault of his own though and I'm not sure how to get it through his head.  I've been blunt but apparently that's not working.

Try setting him up with Madame Bovary, if only for the lulz.

LOL, I actually haven't heard boo from Madame Bovary in like 8 months, since she got kicked out of her apartment.  She popped back up briefly a few weeks ago with a quick wo is me but that's been it for months...I was wondering what happened to her.

[PMG]

Got a text from my brother today. He's trying out a meal delivery service, and needed my email to send me a referral code. I look up the meal plan, and it is $10/person, for just dinner! In comparison, we spend about $10/day for the two of us.

His reasoning? $25 off for two weeks is good!

(For fun, I did the math on the cost if I did it with the promo: 2 people * 3 recipes * $10 = $60, and taking the $40 promo off its $20. For 6 people's worth of servings, it would make dinner at $3.33/plate, which would fall in line with our current spending. BUT considering I could only do this once, I think I'll just pass and just continue to not miss something I never had. Also, I would feel guilt about the packaging and waste that goes into those boxes, particularly those freezer bag things.)

I heard a commercial the other day about this.... when I heard the "$10.00 a person" I yelled at the radio, "WHAT ??"  I had 4 children and I am pretty certain I managed to get dinner on the table for less than $10.00 total for 6 people. What am I missing ? Do people really lack meal planning skills ? They are plastered all over Pinterest. Do they lack time to shop for groceries ? What are these busy people's lives so full of that they cannot carve out time to go to the grocery store ? I am not being rhetorical...I really would like to know.

My brother and his wife have been getting these meal kits for about a year, using them as a tool to establish better habits.  They are DINK, LCOL, work long hours.  They ate out constantly for years, especially when they had an hour commute, 15 minutes now.  I was always shocked when I visited them.  Brother says when they did have time to grocery shop they were overly ambitious and wasted a lot of food. 

They get 4 meal kits a week (and have dinner with an elderly family member the 5th night).  They always know there’s something at home for dinner.  Quick, simple directions. SIL never learned to cook, now makes yummy pretty meals.  Cheaper than eating out.  They are trying new vegetables, new flavors.  They say the portion sizes are usually right on, but no leftovers, no food waste (though lots of packaging waste, I think they can return parts of the packaging). 

They have both lost some weight since starting the meal kits.  Brother quit his soda habit, helped by only having to make the decision when shopping, not every evening when ordering dinner.  He says the meal kits aren’t exciting anymore like they were initially, but still worth it for them.  I think they had initially planned to wean themselves off the service a bit faster, but have spent much of the past year caring for ill family members so staying with the service has really helped them.

Still... it’s so expensive!  I couldn’t justify it personally, but I can’t condemn the way my brother is using it. 

(Of course there are actually 7 days a week and they still do a lot of eating out... but it’s been a good step for them.)

[Imma]

For people like your brother and SIL meal delivery services are a massive improvement. It's just like electric bikes: they are a terrible choice if you're healthy and fit and ride a regular bike frequently, but if you're driving everywhere and not getting any exercise, an electric bike is a massive improvement.

[BookLoverL]

Pretty minor one from me: My parents are absolutely not the worst spenders, but they still have obvious inefficiencies to my eyes. Anyway, I made a comment about how much my mum uses the tumble drier - which is too much, when we have an indoor drying rack (which apparently "takes up too much space" even though it's out all the time whether we're using it or not?!) and an outdoor washing line  (which we can use in the warmer half of the year) - and how it might save money on the electricity bill if we cut back. And she said, "Never mind saving, what about earning more?"

Also, I calculated that my dad drinks £1000 a year of beer and/or wine, at least. Yes, I know he enjoys it. But that's not that far off a particularly frugal budget for all other food for one person for a year.

EDIT 17/07/19: I regret making this series of posts a little, because at the time I had some other unresolved emotional issues I was working through, but was focusing on minor disagreements as an outlet. Leaving it up so the thread makes sense, but should my family ever read this: I love you all regardless.

[ixtap]

Pretty minor one from me: My parents are absolutely not the worst spenders, but they still have obvious inefficiencies to my eyes. Anyway, I made a comment about how much my mum uses the tumble drier - which is too much, when we have an indoor drying rack (which apparently "takes up too much space" even though it's out all the time whether we're using it or not?!) and an outdoor washing line  (which we can use in the warmer half of the year) - and how it might save money on the electricity bill if we cut back. And she said, "Never mind saving, what about earning more?"

Also, I calculated that my dad drinks £1000 a year of beer and/or wine, at least. Yes, I know he enjoys it. But that's not that far off a particularly frugal budget for all other food for one person for a year.

Is there a reason your parents should cut back?

[BookLoverL]

Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

[Imma]

Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

Honestly, if my adult kid (I'm assuming you are) living in my home, under my roof, had the audacity to say that to my face, the hotel of mum and dad would be closing its doors pretty soon.

So I hope you're only saying that on here, and not irl.

[crispy]

Well, they're not terrible, but they're not FIRE either. And my brother and I both live with them, so even though we have separate bank accounts, in a way their finances are my concern.

Honestly, if my adult kid (I'm assuming you are) living in my home, under my roof, had the audacity to say that to my face, the hotel of mum and dad would be closing its doors pretty soon.

So I hope you're only saying that on here, and not irl.

I'm with Imma here. The items you mention don't seem to be a big deal at all. I also refuse to use a drying rack to save a few dollars a year. I hope you and your brother pay rent and dfo your own laundry. If not, that would be a much bigger help to your parents.

[BookLoverL]

Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

[crispy]

Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

[Goldielocks]

It's just like electric bikes: they are a terrible choice if you're healthy and fit and ride a regular bike frequently, but if you're driving everywhere and not getting any exercise, an electric bike is a massive improvement.

Yeah,  I am going to call BS on that one.    My guess is that you have not owned an electric bike or you live where it is flat.  Most cyclists I knew looked down on them at the time (circa 2002/2003 here).

Once upon a time, I was a cyclist part time (to work), and when I got an electric kit, my frequency and distance traveled tripled... versus taking DH's car or the bus.

[Rowellen]

Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

I beg to differ on the dryer issue. My former boss had his electricity bill go up about $200 in a qtr maybe more. I can't remember the exact numbers. He discovered his wife had started using the dryer for every load of washing. Nothing else had changed.

[crispy]

Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

No, it isn't bad to be concerned. My in-laws financial decisions are a frequent source of concern for us. It just seems the things you were concerned about are fairly minor (using a drying rack doesn't really save a ton of money in the grand scheme of things). When it comes down to it though, my in-laws are adults and their choices and the consequences belongs to them, not me (that sounds heartless, but they have wasted at least 300k in windfalls and refuse any budgeting help so we just let them deal with their own stuff).

I beg to differ on the dryer issue. My former boss had his electricity bill go up about $200 in a qtr maybe more. I can't remember the exact numbers. He discovered his wife had started using the dryer for every load of washing. Nothing else had changed.

Your must have very expensive electricity. For me, the electric cost is less than $100 per year (using an online equation) so I will happily pay $8 per month for convenience.

[Imma]

Yes, we both pay board and do a fair share of chores. Of course I didn't say it to anyone's face.

I am already trying to earn more money, and even offered to contribute a larger share of board (my offer was turned down to keep it equal with my brother). The main point I was trying to make is that my mum was deflecting the conversation away from spending by focusing on earning - but when I suggest ideas for how I could earn more, she often shoots those down too. Actually, my brother is probably a worse culprit than either of my parents, because he bought about 10 pairs of running shoes this year.

ETA: Is it really that bad to be concerned about your family's finances? It's not like I can force them to change, anyway, if they really don't want to, but especially with the alcohol, it'd be better for their health too to cut back there. I want to help them have more money if I can because I think it'd make my mum especially happier if she didn't have to work as long. And all of us help with my dad's business.

I'm sure your intentions are good, but if your mum doesn't appreciate it, I can imagine it will only result in her being annoyed. I'm not that much older than you, but we used to rent out a room to a guy who would give me all kinds of unwanted advice about very small things. He was right sometimes, but it still annoyed me to no end, because in my head I thought "if you know so well how to run a household, GO RUN YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD for gods sake".

There's nothing wrong with being concerned about your family's financial situation, but there's a difference between concern and meddling. Giving people advice when they're not interested in my experience just doesn't work. It's understandable though, if you see opportunities for improvement or your family is financially in trouble (I hope they're not) but I don't think you're in a position to hand out unwanted advice unless they're asking for your help.

If you want to help them save money, maybe you could offer to do things for them like find out the cheapest mobile phone / TV / electricity / internet provider or compare insurance policies. Or you could offer to do the grocery shopping + meal prep and planning and get the grocery budget down. You could do the laundry and do it your way and see if you can bring the electricity bill or the use of detergent down (most people can save massively on laundry detergent). I think most people are open to saving money, but they don't want the hassle or disrupt their routines, especially if they're already extremely busy working and running a household.

[Roadrunner53]

Years ago I knew these people that were always in debt. The wife didn't work but the husband had a good paying job but they always squandered every penny they had. So one episode was somehow the couple got a visit from a freezer plan outfit. The deal was they would bring a freezer (upright) to the home and then you would pick from a list of foods what you expected to eat in a month. Somehow the cost of the freezer was rolled into the cost of the frozen items. So this couple picks out so many steaks, roasts, chickens, pork chops. I have no idea if veggies were included but anyway they filled up the freezer. The next thing you know they thought they were living the life and were eating steaks for breakfast! They gobbled up all the food in just a few weeks, still owed the freezer company for the first fill up plus the freezer! I am not sure what happened after that but if they filled up the freezer a few times that was it. They probably didn't pay the bill when it came in either. As they were gobbling steaks for breakfast they were laughing their heads off!

[marion10]

If you are going the laundry - then you can dry it however you like.