Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1040953 times)

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4100 on: December 07, 2017, 04:05:24 PM »
Sadly, a lot of local government activity, here in the states, requires a paper check, property taxes, water bills, etc. The other odd use of checks in our personal life has been paying for anything related to our kid's activities like scouting, sports teams and similar. During that whole phase of parenting I was stunned by how many other parents had zero skills with handling funds responsibly.several times we were approched with, " you still owe $50 from several months ago"  only to go back home and find the deposited check, that cleared months ago. Had we paid cash, we would of ended up paying twice.

One of the issues, at least around here, is that local governments are statutorily required to bill a certain amount, and can't move numbers to fit around card processing fees. Most (if not all) of the bills I pay can be paid online, but they have an added card processing fee. So I pay by check* to avoid paying the fee.

*Before I started making the effort to swing by city hall once a month to drop off a check, I discovered that the late fee the city charges for being one month late on the water bill is less than the price of running a separate credit card transaction every month. So I would wait two months to pay my water bill and save a buck or two.

Interesting. I have always been able to pay these bills by ACH.

druth

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4101 on: December 07, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »
More from the future inlaws, who you can also read about here:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/relatives-who-just-don't-get-it/msg579297/#msg579297
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/relatives-who-just-don't-get-it/msg1708223/#msg1708223

They just bought a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee.  I used to think they were financially dumb but at least not too consumptive, but it seems like the MLM talk is getting to them.  They are definitely of the impression that they will be rich SO SOON so it's not a risk.  I think some of the MLM has components of "act rich to get rich".

They apparently bought it because they got a flyer in the mail from their local jeep dealer about how they could get a great trade in price because of the Houston floods.  I'm sure a flyer would never exaggerate about that!

Talk about Diderot effect and hedonic adaption, this is apparently a great purchase because now they can tow a boat and a camper(they don't have either of these items... yet).

They really were excited about the great deal they got, and their payments are only about 500$ a month! OH BOY!  My personal opinion is that you would have to pay me to drive any modern Jeep.  This is also their third new car in 2 years.  They leased a Ford fusion, couldn't afford the payments, returned it, bought a lightly used Lincoln(which is at 70k miles - the horror!), and just traded that in for the Jeep.

I'm just waiting for it to all come crashing down.  MIL hasn't been working in months because of an injury(which is way overblown, but that's another thread), she just spends all of her time suing people pretty much.  FIL seems to barely work because he's putting all his time into Primerica.  They are both in their 50s and have student loans still.  IDK how they have even held up as long as they have.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 05:46:39 PM by druth »

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4102 on: December 07, 2017, 06:55:25 PM »
Sadly, a lot of local government activity, here in the states, requires a paper check, property taxes, water bills, etc. The other odd use of checks in our personal life has been paying for anything related to our kid's activities like scouting, sports teams and similar. During that whole phase of parenting I was stunned by how many other parents had zero skills with handling funds responsibly.several times we were approched with, " you still owe $50 from several months ago"  only to go back home and find the deposited check, that cleared months ago. Had we paid cash, we would of ended up paying twice.

One of the issues, at least around here, is that local governments are statutorily required to bill a certain amount, and can't move numbers to fit around card processing fees. Most (if not all) of the bills I pay can be paid online, but they have an added card processing fee. So I pay by check* to avoid paying the fee.

*Before I started making the effort to swing by city hall once a month to drop off a check, I discovered that the late fee the city charges for being one month late on the water bill is less than the price of running a separate credit card transaction every month. So I would wait two months to pay my water bill and save a buck or two.

Interesting. I have always been able to pay these bills by ACH.

Same here. Sometimes call draft or e-check. Typically avoids the credit card convenience fees.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4103 on: December 07, 2017, 07:54:12 PM »
Every store or restaurant will accept Visa/Mastercard, unless they donít take any cards.

This isn't true in Portugal.  Many restaurants and other merchants accept credit cards issued by Portuguese banks, but no foreign cards at all.

fredbear

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4104 on: December 07, 2017, 08:18:22 PM »
..I'm sure he became hedonically adapted at some point in the process, and jumped onto the 18th-century equivalent of the consumer treadmill to earn the money to pay for his new indulgences.

Well, in a sense he did: he wrote Les Bijoux Indiscrets to impress but also to pay for his mistress.  Unrecorded whether she had one.

A sadder example of the 18th century treadmill was Johnson writing Rasselas to pay for the burial of his mother.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4105 on: December 07, 2017, 09:24:09 PM »
Every store or restaurant will accept Visa/Mastercard, unless they donít take any cards.

This isn't true in Portugal.  Many restaurants and other merchants accept credit cards issued by Portuguese banks, but no foreign cards at all.
Oh weird! Good to know.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4106 on: December 08, 2017, 01:06:51 AM »
Every store or restaurant will accept Visa/Mastercard, unless they donít take any cards.

This isn't true in Portugal.  Many restaurants and other merchants accept credit cards issued by Portuguese banks, but no foreign cards at all.

This is indeed weird. Do they not want to get foreign tourists? Or are most tourists Europeans who pay cash with Euro's?

By the way, I have also noticed this in Denmark at el cheapo petrol stations. If you want to pay with Visa, you need to visit one of the more equipped and more expensive petrol stations.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4107 on: December 08, 2017, 01:45:48 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4108 on: December 08, 2017, 02:03:15 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

Here in Norway it differs between banks. But since there are cheap banks that offer to pay bills online for free and use ATM machines for free, those banks have taken over a lot of customers from the other banks. And the other banks have become cheaper. Those expensive  banks now try to earn their money by having higher interest on mortgages.
One of the cheap banks (where I am customer) has the best customer satisfaction rating for many years in a row.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 02:22:50 AM by Linda_Norway »

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4109 on: December 08, 2017, 02:15:22 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

Being one of those dreadful socialist countries, we have laws in place that make it illegal to charge for various 'essential' banking services. See, for example, the recently introduced basic bank account. The Americans would like to retain their freedom to pay to perform these regular tasks. Being "unbanked" is one of those insidious self-perpetuating problems that are rife among the American poor (not enough money to open a bank account so you have to pay to cash cheques, etc) but isn't a massive thing over here because anyone can open a current account and bank for free.

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4110 on: December 08, 2017, 03:53:44 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

Being one of those dreadful socialist countries, we have laws in place that make it illegal to charge for various 'essential' banking services. See, for example, the recently introduced basic bank account. The Americans would like to retain their freedom to pay to perform these regular tasks. Being "unbanked" is one of those insidious self-perpetuating problems that are rife among the American poor (not enough money to open a bank account so you have to pay to cash cheques, etc) but isn't a massive thing over here because anyone can open a current account and bank for free.
And funnily enough our banks still make massive profits even despite those dreadful socialist protections for individuals.
Be frugal and industrious, and you will be free (Ben Franklin)

Raenia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4111 on: December 08, 2017, 05:45:06 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

I'm in the US and I don't pay for any of those things...  When I was shopping for a new bank after relocating, I made free checks one of my criteria. Online bill pay is also a free service through my bank, and ATMs are free to use - if I use an ATM not associated with my bank, they reimburse me for any ATM fees charged by the other bank (up to 3 per month, but I don't withdraw cash that often so it's never been a problem.)  I don't drive anywhere to pay bills, I do it all with recurring payments from my account.

I know some banks are less competitive with these features, but that just means you need to shop around before opening an account, just like any other service.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4112 on: December 08, 2017, 05:58:17 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

I'm in the US and I don't pay for any of those things...  When I was shopping for a new bank after relocating, I made free checks one of my criteria. Online bill pay is also a free service through my bank, and ATMs are free to use - if I use an ATM not associated with my bank, they reimburse me for any ATM fees charged by the other bank (up to 3 per month, but I don't withdraw cash that often so it's never been a problem.)  I don't drive anywhere to pay bills, I do it all with recurring payments from my account.

I know some banks are less competitive with these features, but that just means you need to shop around before opening an account, just like any other service.

Sure, but in the UK you'd have to shop around to find a bank account that WOULD charge you for these things. I don't know if they even exist. Maybe at Coutts?

WerKater

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4113 on: December 08, 2017, 09:02:39 AM »
Every store or restaurant will accept Visa/Mastercard, unless they donít take any cards.

This isn't true in Portugal.  Many restaurants and other merchants accept credit cards issued by Portuguese banks, but no foreign cards at all.

This is indeed weird. Do they not want to get foreign tourists? Or are most tourists Europeans who pay cash with Euro's?

By the way, I have also noticed this in Denmark at el cheapo petrol stations. If you want to pay with Visa, you need to visit one of the more equipped and more expensive petrol stations.
Most grocery stores in Germany do not accept any credit cards, only cash and Girocard (and possibly Maestro and V-Pay, this stuff is complicated...). The reason is simple (as far as I know): The Girocard fees are much smaller than typical credit card fees.
Credit card acceptance is higher in restaurants, especially upscale ones. Possibly because the ratio of foreign customers is higher. Or maybe it is just that they can afford to incorporate the fees into their prices since price competition is not as fierce as with grocery stores.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4114 on: December 08, 2017, 09:13:04 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

I'm in the US and I don't pay for any of those things...  When I was shopping for a new bank after relocating, I made free checks one of my criteria. Online bill pay is also a free service through my bank, and ATMs are free to use - if I use an ATM not associated with my bank, they reimburse me for any ATM fees charged by the other bank (up to 3 per month, but I don't withdraw cash that often so it's never been a problem.)  I don't drive anywhere to pay bills, I do it all with recurring payments from my account.

I know some banks are less competitive with these features, but that just means you need to shop around before opening an account, just like any other service.

Sure, but in the UK you'd have to shop around to find a bank account that WOULD charge you for these things. I don't know if they even exist. Maybe at Coutts?

Bill Pay and certain ATMs are usually free. I am still using checks from two moves ago to avoid getting new ones.

Y'all should see what poor people have to pay. I have seen checking account fees of $25/month, just because you can't maintain a minimum balance. And that was a few years ago, so it wouldn't surprise me if it were higher.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4115 on: December 08, 2017, 09:16:10 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

I'm in the US and I don't pay for any of those things...  When I was shopping for a new bank after relocating, I made free checks one of my criteria. Online bill pay is also a free service through my bank, and ATMs are free to use - if I use an ATM not associated with my bank, they reimburse me for any ATM fees charged by the other bank (up to 3 per month, but I don't withdraw cash that often so it's never been a problem.)  I don't drive anywhere to pay bills, I do it all with recurring payments from my account.

I know some banks are less competitive with these features, but that just means you need to shop around before opening an account, just like any other service.

Sure, but in the UK you'd have to shop around to find a bank account that WOULD charge you for these things. I don't know if they even exist. Maybe at Coutts?

Bill Pay and certain ATMs are usually free. I am still using checks from two moves ago to avoid getting new ones.

Y'all should see what poor people have to pay. I have seen checking account fees of $25/month, just because you can't maintain a minimum balance. And that was a few years ago, so it wouldn't surprise me if it were higher.

Grrrr! I still remember when we needed to open a business checking account with Bank of America my partner didn't put in enough to cover the minimum balance. We have the bank account because a lot of our customers use BoA and it's easier for them to transfer money (ie pay their invoices) this way. I found out a month later when we were hit for $25 and went ahead and deposited the funds to cover the minimum balance.

tarheeldan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4116 on: December 08, 2017, 09:31:58 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

All of these are easily free in the US also. All my banks (Merrill, Schwab, Ally) and the banks I use for volunteer work (TD, Citizens) have online bill pay. Postage is free, the check is free, and you can set up payments to go out on a regular schedule. Most bills you can set up auto-pay on your card, others are ACH from checking.

I know (typically older) people who drive around to pay bills still and am completely baffled by it.

Oh just noticed this - curious, what is an online food account?

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4117 on: December 08, 2017, 10:15:11 AM »
US retail banks have high fees that can be waived with requirements as a means  to keep unprofitable poor customers away.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4118 on: December 08, 2017, 11:21:48 AM »
US retail banks have high fees that can be waived with requirements as a means  to keep unprofitable poor customers away.


Many Americans learn this lesson when the grandparents decide to open a savings account for your children. A few years go by, you forget about it, then one day you head to the bank with Jr's birthday money, to get him into the habit of saving. You then find out that the bank has stolen most of your child's money, five dollars at a time, for "monthly inactivity fees". Kind of hard to imagine, if you live in a civilized country, but here in the USA, banks spend a lot of time and effort dreaming up new ways to screw their customers. When it comes to things from shuffling withdraws (checks presented, ATM withdraws, etc...) to intentionally place an account in overdraft and maximize penalties, to creating fake accounts for your customers, these techniques create billions in additional profit. Since our legislative branch of the federal government is largely composed of elected whores that will sell their soul for a couple of tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions, banks rarely end up getting punished for any of this. Makes me want to wave the flag, LOL.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4119 on: December 08, 2017, 11:30:24 AM »
US retail banks have high fees that can be waived with requirements as a means  to keep unprofitable poor customers away.


Many Americans learn this lesson when the grandparents decide to open a savings account for your children. A few years go by, you forget about it, then one day you head to the bank with Jr's birthday money, to get him into the habit of saving. You then find out that the bank has stolen most of your child's money, five dollars at a time, for "monthly inactivity fees".

I kind of wish Fidelity would shut down my account for inactivity. I withdrew all my money and tried to close the account, but they said I had to wait for tax forms to be issued - and the account remained open. In the meantime, they put one cent of interest into my account for reasons I don't fully understand. The website would not allow me to make a withdrawal for an amount less than $10, so I have had a Fidelity account sitting there for years with a penny in it. I don't remember the password any more, and it's absolutely not worth the effort of sorting it out, so I'm just seeing how long it sits there before they do something about it.
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stashja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4120 on: December 08, 2017, 12:35:38 PM »
My brother got fired for cause. He is also a student. My parents (a) decided this is good news because it will allow him to focus on being a great student, and (b) took out a HELOC to pay his rent. Heís 32. Tell me how not to be angry at and scared for them at once.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4121 on: December 08, 2017, 12:49:07 PM »

I kind of wish Fidelity would shut down my account for inactivity. I withdrew all my money and tried to close the account, but they said I had to wait for tax forms to be issued - and the account remained open. In the meantime, they put one cent of interest into my account for reasons I don't fully understand. The website would not allow me to make a withdrawal for an amount less than $10, so I have had a Fidelity account sitting there for years with a penny in it. I don't remember the password any more, and it's absolutely not worth the effort of sorting it out, so I'm just seeing how long it sits there before they do something about it.

Same here with my Fidelty and Schwab accounts. I remember calling in to Schwab and the customer service rep was like, "You aren't going to be charged a fee for having an account with us even if there's a zero balance, do you have a reason to want to close it?" I didn't so I left it open. I haven't used either since sending its funds to Vanguard.

Jouer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4122 on: December 08, 2017, 01:35:54 PM »

I kind of wish Fidelity would shut down my account for inactivity. I withdrew all my money and tried to close the account, but they said I had to wait for tax forms to be issued - and the account remained open. In the meantime, they put one cent of interest into my account for reasons I don't fully understand. The website would not allow me to make a withdrawal for an amount less than $10, so I have had a Fidelity account sitting there for years with a penny in it. I don't remember the password any more, and it's absolutely not worth the effort of sorting it out, so I'm just seeing how long it sits there before they do something about it.

Same here with my Fidelty and Schwab accounts. I remember calling in to Schwab and the customer service rep was like, "You aren't going to be charged a fee for having an account with us even if there's a zero balance, do you have a reason to want to close it?" I didn't so I left it open. I haven't used either since sending its funds to Vanguard.

By not fully closing your account, you likely didn't count towards their lost customer quota. Juking the stats.

RFAAOATB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4123 on: December 08, 2017, 01:39:05 PM »
My brother got fired for cause. He is also a student. My parents (a) decided this is good news because it will allow him to focus on being a great student, and (b) took out a HELOC to pay his rent. Heís 32. Tell me how not to be angry at and scared for them at once.

Ask them for a HELOC for your house, as you will most likely be housing them when they are destitute?


Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4124 on: December 09, 2017, 01:59:59 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

Being one of those dreadful socialist countries, we have laws in place that make it illegal to charge for various 'essential' banking services. See, for example, the recently introduced basic bank account. The Americans would like to retain their freedom to pay to perform these regular tasks. Being "unbanked" is one of those insidious self-perpetuating problems that are rife among the American poor (not enough money to open a bank account so you have to pay to cash cheques, etc) but isn't a massive thing over here because anyone can open a current account and bank for free.
IMO the "unbanked" issue  in the USA is based on far, far more cultural norms and other barriers than just the cost of the account.  Many usa accounts are free to set up and use, they are not hard to find.

IDK if it is because of creditors able to garnish / claim your accounts, or illegal immigrants working, or traditional payment in cash, or fees, or access to a bank with extended hours (historically), or distance to the bank, or just plain old "mom and dad don't use a bank so I don't either" or fewer employers there insist on paying by direct deposit or ???

Sun Hat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4125 on: December 09, 2017, 06:31:34 AM »
My brother got fired for cause. He is also a student. My parents (a) decided this is good news because it will allow him to focus on being a great student, and (b) took out a HELOC to pay his rent. Heís 32. Tell me how not to be angry at and scared for them at once.

At 32, if he were ever going to be a terrific student, he'd have busted his ass and already be a terrific student.

I'm sorry that I can't tell you how to not be angry and scared, because I'm angry and scared for you. I think that all that you can do is to tell them that the best things that they can do for your brother are:
1)  set (and keep to) a firm end-date for their support in order to force him to start to make decisions that reflect the reality that life is about hard choices
2) to take care of their own finances so that when he does get back onto his feet that he won't have to worry about them

I wouldn't expect them to budge, but at least you'll have seeded the idea.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4126 on: December 09, 2017, 02:05:25 PM »
You'd be even better off just making one large payment ahead of time for like 6 months of service.

merula

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4127 on: December 09, 2017, 04:35:01 PM »
At 32, if he were ever going to be a terrific student, he'd have busted his ass and already be a terrific student.

I will say that I have a brother-in-law who spent most of his typical-college-age years in this pattern:
  • Register for classes; attend religiously for a few weeks.
  • Get stress out over classwork, triggering a depressive episode.
  • Start skipping class occasionally, then frequently, then stop going altogether.
  • Drop out juuuuust past the date where there's any tuition refund provided.
  • Work a part-time job, the earnings of which go solely to hobbies while parents pay for all necessary expenses.
  • Get over depressive episode, decide to go back to college. Start over at #1.

However, he's now 31 and attending a trade school at which he is excelling. He's very smart; it's not quite a "not everyone is cut out for college" situation. It's more of a "gifted child just can't deal with things that don't come easily" thing.

He is paying for the trade school with loans, though, so that might figure into his motivation.

Sun Hat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4128 on: December 09, 2017, 04:46:07 PM »
I'll give your brother credit for persistence! Dealing with depression is no peach.

Roe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4129 on: December 09, 2017, 05:50:41 PM »
At 32, if he were ever going to be a terrific student, he'd have busted his ass and already be a terrific student.

I will say that I have a brother-in-law who spent most of his typical-college-age years in this pattern:
  • Register for classes; attend religiously for a few weeks.
  • Get stress out over classwork, triggering a depressive episode.
  • Start skipping class occasionally, then frequently, then stop going altogether.
  • Drop out juuuuust past the date where there's any tuition refund provided.
  • Work a part-time job, the earnings of which go solely to hobbies while parents pay for all necessary expenses.
  • Get over depressive episode, decide to go back to college. Start over at #1.

However, he's now 31 and attending a trade school at which he is excelling. He's very smart; it's not quite a "not everyone is cut out for college" situation. It's more of a "gifted child just can't deal with things that don't come easily" thing.

He is paying for the trade school with loans, though, so that might figure into his motivation.

It's like we are step-relatives.

I have one of those aswell. Only difference is that he is a bit older, and have now given up. Spends most time with his computer, apart from the odd burst of "as soon as there is an opening, I will apply for this highly sought after job that I am completely unqualified for. Since I've kind of done entry level work a decade or so ago, this is the position i should be at my age, and it's completely unrealistic to apply for a lower position." or "im going to grow starfish on the island of Lau wau!".
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AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4130 on: December 10, 2017, 02:02:50 PM »
At 32, if he were ever going to be a terrific student, he'd have busted his ass and already be a terrific student.

I will say that I have a brother-in-law who spent most of his typical-college-age years in this pattern:
  • Register for classes; attend religiously for a few weeks.
  • Get stress out over classwork, triggering a depressive episode.
  • Start skipping class occasionally, then frequently, then stop going altogether.
  • Drop out juuuuust past the date where there's any tuition refund provided.
  • Work a part-time job, the earnings of which go solely to hobbies while parents pay for all necessary expenses.
  • Get over depressive episode, decide to go back to college. Start over at #1.

However, he's now 31 and attending a trade school at which he is excelling. He's very smart; it's not quite a "not everyone is cut out for college" situation. It's more of a "gifted child just can't deal with things that don't come easily" thing.

He is paying for the trade school with loans, though, so that might figure into his motivation.

It's like we are step-relatives.

I have one of those aswell. Only difference is that he is a bit older, and have now given up. Spends most time with his computer, apart from the odd burst of "as soon as there is an opening, I will apply for this highly sought after job that I am completely unqualified for. Since I've kind of done entry level work a decade or so ago, this is the position i should be at my age, and it's completely unrealistic to apply for a lower position." or "im going to grow starfish on the island of Lau wau!".

Aww, that's sad. Poor guy. I know the situation stems from his own choices, but he clearly has no idea how to get out of it at this point.

Sun Hat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4131 on: December 11, 2017, 06:28:59 PM »
I know that it's not the spirit of the page, but there isn't a "Hurrah, they see the light!" page.

[Edited in hopes that person will eventually join site]

I'm overwhelmed at how happy I am that she's taken this step. Please join me in a dance of joy!
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 06:20:06 AM by Sun Hat »

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4132 on: December 11, 2017, 07:09:37 PM »
...
I'm overwhelmed at how happy I am that she's taken this step. Please join me in a dance of joy!



(Sorry for the potato quality)
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Sun Hat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4133 on: December 11, 2017, 07:24:59 PM »
This is exactly my kind of dork! Thank you!

kaypinkHH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4134 on: December 12, 2017, 06:42:36 AM »
Mr. HH got into an argument with his Brother. Brother was arguing that because he lives in a Oil province he "saves money on gas" compared to us in our "expensive province". He drives a lambourgini or a GIANT JEEP THING....we drive a prius.

Mr.HH had to explain that though the $/L was cheaper where he lives, we use a ton less gas. Some how BIL didn't get it.

Head desk.

barbaz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4135 on: December 12, 2017, 08:05:33 AM »
Mr. HH got into an argument with his Brother. Brother was arguing that because he lives in a Oil province he "saves money on gas" compared to us in our "expensive province". He drives a lambourgini or a GIANT JEEP THING....we drive a prius.

Mr.HH had to explain that though the $/L was cheaper where he lives, we use a ton less gas. Some how BIL didn't get it.

Head desk.
It’s really simple math, you see: the more gas he uses the more money he saves

kaypinkHH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4136 on: December 12, 2017, 08:39:04 AM »
@barbaz, you made me LOL. Thank you :).

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4137 on: December 12, 2017, 07:27:52 PM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

I just spent a few days with my sister and BIL in the USA and was struck by these same things. Overall, they are not savvy, organized or efficient about banking (shitshow would be my descriptor of choice, but I might be being too harsh). I think at least part of their problem is a comparatively antiquated banking system, though. I listened to my sister on the phone trying to make a payment on her Visa and it was ridiculous. ďIím sorry, you cannot pay more than your statement balance.Ē And having to enter account numbers of the Visa AND the bank account every time a payment is made? With mine, once the credit card company or whatever is set up as a payee, itís in there/attached until removed.

Again, Iím not certain if the problem lies completely with the bank or if itís a combination of bank issues and disorganization... ugh. Glad to be back in my sane world!
"Not wanting something is as good as possessing it." ~Donald Horban

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4138 on: December 12, 2017, 08:43:01 PM »
Again, Iím not certain if the problem lies completely with the bank or if itís a combination of bank issues and disorganization... ugh. Glad to be back in my sane world!

Disorganization.  Those things can easily be avoided in the United States, if the people spend a short amount of time to educate themselves about their options.  It's just that some choose not to link their banks and their credit cards, some choose to use banks that charge or do not reimburse ATM fees, etc.  We don't all have the choice of how tech-savvy our local governments are, but I know the various departments of mine handle online payments like a breeze.

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4139 on: December 12, 2017, 10:54:15 PM »
Again, Iím not certain if the problem lies completely with the bank or if itís a combination of bank issues and disorganization... ugh. Glad to be back in my sane world!

Disorganization.  Those things can easily be avoided in the United States, if the people spend a short amount of time to educate themselves about their options.  It's just that some choose not to link their banks and their credit cards, some choose to use banks that charge or do not reimburse ATM fees, etc.  We don't all have the choice of how tech-savvy our local governments are, but I know the various departments of mine handle online payments like a breeze.

Iím sure youíre correct. I guess I was just hoping that they werenít as inept at financial things as I had always assumed known. Maybe next time I visit I can offer to help optimize things. Itís just too painful to watch.
"Not wanting something is as good as possessing it." ~Donald Horban

availablelight

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4140 on: December 13, 2017, 07:25:48 AM »
I can't tell if US banking is crazily expensive or mine is super cheap:

You PAY for cheques
You PAY to pay your bills online
You PAY to top up an online food account
You PAY to drive around and pay bills
You PAY to use ATMS

All of these things are free for me. Our banking is far from perfect, but I'm baffled about how inefficient and expensive the US banking system seems.

You pay credit card fees for online purchases a lot more in the UK, though.  Can't really remember ever seeing those in the US.  Bank transfers being handled a lot better mitigates this, though.

Yes, "service fees" on people who don't have enough money in their bank accounts are painful.  The amounts to avoid that aren't usually that much, though, in the neighborhood of $500 from what I've seen.  (Sure, that includes a distressing number of people.)

I've never paid for checks, although that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Same with online bill pay.  Not sure what the third and fourth things are referring to.

I'm also not sure how ATM fees in the UK compare to the US -- I've only really used my bank's ATMs in the UK.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4141 on: December 13, 2017, 08:22:34 AM »
"You pay credit card fees for online purchases a lot more in the UK, though.  Can't really remember ever seeing those in the US.  Bank transfers being handled a lot better mitigates this, though."

In the US cc fees are baked into the price of goods.  Merchants can charge you more to cover the fee if they want but many choose not to.  Different cc's have different fee structures; AmEx has some of the highest fees to cover there often more generous rewards programs.
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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4142 on: December 13, 2017, 02:59:09 PM »
I just spent a few days with my sister and BIL in the USA and was struck by these same things. Overall, they are not savvy, organized or efficient about banking (shitshow would be my descriptor of choice, but I might be being too harsh). I think at least part of their problem is a comparatively antiquated banking system, though. I listened to my sister on the phone trying to make a payment on her Visa and it was ridiculous. ďIím sorry, you cannot pay more than your statement balance.Ē And having to enter account numbers of the Visa AND the bank account every time a payment is made? With mine, once the credit card company or whatever is set up as a payee, itís in there/attached until removed.

Again, Iím not certain if the problem lies completely with the bank or if itís a combination of bank issues and disorganization... ugh. Glad to be back in my sane world!

You're not.

The "banking system" you describe in the USA is kind of an organic collection of what happens when enterprises developed by the invisible hand of the free market grow beyond the scale at which they can be managed intelligently and have to operate across a wide geographical area while responding to contradictory laws and incentive. There's nothing about it that was planned or internally organized.
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UKMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4143 on: December 14, 2017, 12:29:57 AM »
I'm also not sure how ATM fees in the UK compare to the US -- I've only really used my bank's ATMs in the UK.

There isn't generally any fees to use an ATM in the UK.  The only time you really see fees is when there's no other option, for instance at a temporary ATM within the grounds of a music festival, they know the bars only take cash and you aren't going to walk a mile back to your car to drive into town to save a £2.50 fee.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4144 on: December 14, 2017, 02:44:38 AM »
I'm also not sure how ATM fees in the UK compare to the US -- I've only really used my bank's ATMs in the UK.

There isn't generally any fees to use an ATM in the UK.  The only time you really see fees is when there's no other option, for instance at a temporary ATM within the grounds of a music festival, they know the bars only take cash and you aren't going to walk a mile back to your car to drive into town to save a £2.50 fee.

And you can tell easily because it's not got any major bank or supermarket's logo on it and the font and colour scheme on the display looks like it was designed in the 1990s and it pops up with "This withdrawal will cost you £X - do you wish to cancel or continue?" All bank and supermarket ATMs are free to all bank customers.

Cookie78

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4145 on: Today at 03:45:06 PM »
Today a relative brought up 2 things he learned about TFSAs. One of those things was correct (you can use it to invest, not just save), the other was wrong (if you take a loss you can make more contributions to make up for that loss).

I was all excited to talk about finance stuff with him, but I may have gone a little too far too fast because in the end he said he'd just end up spending the money anyway. His daughter was there and asked what we were talking about. I guess I should have just said 'buying freedom', because again, my responses were met with a typical confused wtf teenager scowl. Lol

Oh well. Baby steps.

Suze456

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4146 on: Today at 06:53:05 PM »
Every store or restaurant will accept Visa/Mastercard, unless they donít take any cards.

This isn't true in Portugal.  Many restaurants and other merchants accept credit cards issued by Portuguese banks, but no foreign cards at all.


Never had a problem using a (European but not Portugese) Visa or Mastercard in Portugal