Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 1582372 times)

doublethinkmoney

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3100 on: June 23, 2017, 06:24:11 PM »
I understand that you were not aware that an $82 "bill" was going to pop up out of nowhere, but how are you buying wheels for a project car if you know you're going to be without two weeks pay very soon, and apparently you don't have any money saved, because of you did, the extra $32 wouldn't be an issue?

If you're having a kid and $32 is the difference between family solvency/insolvency, it's time to seriously re-evaluate your priorities in life.
Let's be honest. It's not about him "not having" $32. It's the fact he doesn't want to spend more than $50 on someone else. If it was something that benefited him I bet he would have made it work.


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Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3101 on: June 23, 2017, 06:46:14 PM »
I understand that you were not aware that an $82 "bill" was going to pop up out of nowhere, but how are you buying wheels for a project car if you know you're going to be without two weeks pay very soon, and apparently you don't have any money saved, because of you did, the extra $32 wouldn't be an issue?

If you're having a kid and $32 is the difference between family solvency/insolvency, it's time to seriously re-evaluate your priorities in life.
Let's be honest. It's not about him "not having" $32. It's the fact he doesn't want to spend more than $50 on someone else. If it was something that benefited him I bet he would have made it work.


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OR

He bought the car stuff, then his wife was aggrieved, and pointed out his spendy ways and he promised absolutely to stop and save X dollars before baby.

Dezrah

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3102 on: June 23, 2017, 09:15:20 PM »
I get that people don't want gifts, but there's also such a thing as being gracious and accepting a gift in the spirit in which it was given, whether you like it or not. Some of the posters here sound quite rude and ungrateful. Get over it. Your relatives are trying to how you they care in their own way. Much like you try to show them you care in your own way, which they might not always appreciate.

I hear what you're saying.  In my case, FIL believes he's being loving in reality he's dealing with a host of psychological issues and projecting them onto us.  He can't accept he's effectively failed as a father, he can't cope with his parents' overly high expectations, he hoards believing he's leaving a legacy instead of a burden... it's all just very sad and complicated.  Ultimately I'm not grateful that extra stuff is imposed on us with an unrealistic psychological burden.  Sometimes I like to vent about how ridiculous the situation is; perhaps I could do better though.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3103 on: June 24, 2017, 06:57:26 PM »
Wife and I are thinking about downsizing from our 2300 square foot 4 bedroom 2.5 bath split level with 3 car garage down to a 1350 square foot townhome with 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath and a 1 car garage.

We bought the split for 190,000 about 5 years ago and figure we can sell for somewhere between 260 and 270 now. We like it, but splits are laid out terribly and there is so much wasted space yet hardly any storage. It also has vaulted ceilings (which means higher utilities)! We figure really only only use about half the space and the rest is just wasted. The backyard is also extremely windy (we live in one of the windiest cities in the country), making the deck almost unusable.

The new place seems to be laid out fairly nice, just needs a coat of paint, new flooring, and some work on the landscaping. It is about 1 block from the daycare our daughter that is due in July will be attending, and walking distance to my work. The park and ride for my wife to get to work downtown is also only about a 1 mile drive. It also has HOA that handles lawncare, snow removal, and exterior maintenance (I loathe yardwork, but my wife wants a place of our own, this is a good compromise)

We figure with our income we could have this place paid off in a few short years. We were excited and called the in-laws to come look at it with us, and their first question was if we are having money problems. Then they called us (me) lazy, nevermind I make great money as an engineer and we are just thinking about making a lifestyle choice millions of others make (hell, they live in an HOA with lawncare and snow removal themselves). I think they would be embarassed, they want us to move into something nicer than we have now, which is quite ironic because they sold their old place a few years ago and we figured they were downsizing and instead moved into something nicer and now are complaining about having to work at least another 6-7 years when they want to retire now. I don't want to make that mistake.

So of course they made my wife feel like shit (I don't give a fuck what they, or anyone else thinks).

Rowellen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3104 on: June 24, 2017, 08:31:26 PM »
Wife and I are thinking about downsizing from our 2300 square foot 4 bedroom 2.5 bath split level with 3 car garage down to a 1350 square foot townhome with 3 bedroom, 1.5 bath and a 1 car garage.

We bought the split for 190,000 about 5 years ago and figure we can sell for somewhere between 260 and 270 now. We like it, but splits are laid out terribly and there is so much wasted space yet hardly any storage. It also has vaulted ceilings (which means higher utilities)! We figure really only only use about half the space and the rest is just wasted. The backyard is also extremely windy (we live in one of the windiest cities in the country), making the deck almost unusable.

The new place seems to be laid out fairly nice, just needs a coat of paint, new flooring, and some work on the landscaping. It is about 1 block from the daycare our daughter that is due in July will be attending, and walking distance to my work. The park and ride for my wife to get to work downtown is also only about a 1 mile drive. It also has HOA that handles lawncare, snow removal, and exterior maintenance (I loathe yardwork, but my wife wants a place of our own, this is a good compromise)

We figure with our income we could have this place paid off in a few short years. We were excited and called the in-laws to come look at it with us, and their first question was if we are having money problems. Then they called us (me) lazy, nevermind I make great money as an engineer and we are just thinking about making a lifestyle choice millions of others make (hell, they live in an HOA with lawncare and snow removal themselves). I think they would be embarassed, they want us to move into something nicer than we have now, which is quite ironic because they sold their old place a few years ago and we figured they were downsizing and instead moved into something nicer and now are complaining about having to work at least another 6-7 years when they want to retire now. I don't want to make that mistake.

So of course they made my wife feel like shit (I don't give a fuck what they, or anyone else thinks).

It sucks that they can't be happy for you but I think it sounds delightful.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3105 on: June 25, 2017, 07:26:09 AM »


It sucks that they can't be happy for you but I think it sounds delightful.
[/quote]

Regarding the name calling (Lazy) and obnoxious response by the in-laws. I put up with a similar response when we switched homes, to better accommodate our young kids and recently disabled wife. Simply put, the new home didn't suit my mom's concept of "moving up" and she decided the way to handle it was to be a snarky bitch. This was followed by two other uncalled for unpleasant comments in the following months. The DW and I handled it well. We  gave her the cold shoulder for a few months, until she decided she needed to "confront" us on why she was being treated so poorly. I then laid out that we were now on the Golden Rule program, and if she had anything nasty to say, she could either keep her pie hole shut, or expect to be shown the door. We treat others with dignity and respect and expect the same of her. If she chose to be nasty, she wasn't welcomed to be part of our lives. She was stunned by the fact that her own son called her out on her bullshit, but it completely stopped the problem. 

You're stuck with the inlaws, but IMHO, hell would freeze over before they called me lazy, and were not quickly educated on the fact that they have crossed the line, and will regret ever doing it again.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3106 on: June 25, 2017, 10:58:30 AM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

crispy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3107 on: June 25, 2017, 11:48:54 AM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

We downsized a few years back and some people also assumed that we were crazy or going broke. I like to live by the saying that those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3108 on: June 25, 2017, 12:04:43 PM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

I'd probably just take his attempts to talk you out of this house as humorous. "oh, sure - it's terrible isn't it? Living in a cardboard box on the street practically! We're almost homeless hobos aren't we? Oh the horror!"

Humor sometimes does help to defuse critical commentary and might also help him to see how ridiculous he's being. At the least, you can discount his silly interference without yelling or getting angry.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3109 on: June 25, 2017, 01:13:55 PM »
when we downsized only 1 friend was critical and at ages 53 & 58 many people our age do that.  I would just ignore your FIL and do what you want. Hopefully, they won't talk your wife out of it.  A smaller place will be a lot quicker to clean, etc. YOur overall expenses will go down.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3110 on: June 25, 2017, 06:23:08 PM »

Regarding the name calling (Lazy) and obnoxious response by the in-laws. I put up with a similar response when we switched homes, to better accommodate our young kids and recently disabled wife. Simply put, the new home didn't suit my mom's concept of "moving up" and she decided the way to handle it was to be a snarky bitch. This was followed by two other uncalled for unpleasant comments in the following months. The DW and I handled it well. We  gave her the cold shoulder for a few months, until she decided she needed to "confront" us on why she was being treated so poorly. I then laid out that we were now on the Golden Rule program, and if she had anything nasty to say, she could either keep her pie hole shut, or expect to be shown the door. We treat others with dignity and respect and expect the same of her. If she chose to be nasty, she wasn't welcomed to be part of our lives. She was stunned by the fact that her own son called her out on her bullshit, but it completely stopped the problem. 

You're stuck with the inlaws, but IMHO, hell would freeze over before they called me lazy, and were not quickly educated on the fact that they have crossed the line, and will regret ever doing it again.

Good for you! 

It took several equally blunt discussions between my mom and I to get her behavior to be acceptable.  Never got past acceptable because she just couldn't let her preconceptions go.   And I mean to her dying day.  Literally.



marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3111 on: June 26, 2017, 07:17:58 AM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

This is literally my future. I am also a pretty logical engineer, but my future MIL is very emotional. Both me and my boyfriend live well under our means mainly by living with roommates and driving cheap cars, and his parents are very judgmental because it's not the lifestyle an engineer should have apparently. And we shouldn't "go backwards" as they said once. I'm starting to think they're embarrassed by us, because they want to brag about how successful their son is through outwardly appearances of buying a house or fancy car.

kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3112 on: June 26, 2017, 12:34:01 PM »
My parents aren't spendypants, but they want a better life for me than what I'm currently living. I just got a middle-class income for the first time in my life, and they want me to upgrade a bit. I have every plan on doing so, but not all at once. All the things at once would put me in credit card debt.

List of excuses to get the parents off my back:

"You don't have a TV!" "I'm never home right now, maybe this winter."

"We never see you, why are you still working two jobs?" "I've saved up $X for an emergency fund and paid off $Y in student loans in six months."

"You wear the same three shirts all the time!" "I work in IT, my boss wears socks and sandals."

"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

I think I need to tell them that I'm Eccentric. There are a few Eccentrics in the family, it'll help adjust my parent's expectations for me. Swearing, terrible host/houseguest manners, and ERE-style-frugality will become expected. Unliked, but at least expected.

MgoSam

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3113 on: June 26, 2017, 12:36:47 PM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

This is literally my future. I am also a pretty logical engineer, but my future MIL is very emotional. Both me and my boyfriend live well under our means mainly by living with roommates and driving cheap cars, and his parents are very judgmental because it's not the lifestyle an engineer should have apparently. And we shouldn't "go backwards" as they said once. I'm starting to think they're embarrassed by us, because they want to brag about how successful their son is through outwardly appearances of buying a house or fancy car.

My parents are the same way. I've had to flat out tell them that I'm happy with my life and that I plan on retiring before I'm 40. And then I mention, "Don't worry, you have 2 other children that should give you plenty of material to brag about to your friends," and then they deny that is their purpose.

cheapass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3114 on: June 26, 2017, 01:03:28 PM »
"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

You've done the math and the rare occurrence of a guest staying over doesn't justify the additional cost (rent/mortgage/utilities/cleaning) of another room. You'd probably come out ahead if you paid for a hotel each and every time someone wanted to come visit you.

Or there's always the blanket statement I like to use - "I'd rather work less than spend more."

marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3115 on: June 26, 2017, 01:06:28 PM »
Father in law was over and wanted to talk about "it" again today. Said he couldn't sleep last night and that the place is a shithole and we deserve better. Literally the only thing "wrong" with it is that it is smaller than our current place and needs some cosmetic updates.

It's hard because he argues from emotion and I am a logical engineer. I just let him say his thing and didn't even bother responding besides "OK". At the end of the day it is our life (mine, my wife, and my daughter's), and we will do what we want. It's not worth getting worked up over or into arguments imo.

Besides this, the in-laws have been for the most part great. I have been very lucky in that regard. That's the biggest reason I am willing to let this go. If it persists much farther there will be words though.

This is literally my future. I am also a pretty logical engineer, but my future MIL is very emotional. Both me and my boyfriend live well under our means mainly by living with roommates and driving cheap cars, and his parents are very judgmental because it's not the lifestyle an engineer should have apparently. And we shouldn't "go backwards" as they said once. I'm starting to think they're embarrassed by us, because they want to brag about how successful their son is through outwardly appearances of buying a house or fancy car.

My parents are the same way. I've had to flat out tell them that I'm happy with my life and that I plan on retiring before I'm 40. And then I mention, "Don't worry, you have 2 other children that should give you plenty of material to brag about to your friends," and then they deny that is their purpose.

Next time they have a snarky comment I should ask if they're just embarrassed by us. They do have a daughter, but she hasn't bought a house or anything. She actually is living in her parent's rental house for $600 a month. I guess they can brag about where she works (a very large company) but I still don't think she makes as much as us even with a master's degree. Either way, she doesn't have too much to show for her money other than a bunch of useless stuff (furniture, clothes, makeup) and a brand new SUV. They made a big deal out of highschool/college graduations for both of them, hosted large parties and invited a bunch of people (some people that aren't even close to the actual grad!), so it's definitely an appearances thing.

Gondolin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3116 on: June 26, 2017, 03:14:26 PM »
Quote
And we shouldn't "go backwards" as they said once

Every time I hear about parents who want their children to rise all I think about is the scene in the Godfather where Marlon Brando tells Al Pacino that he never wanted him to join the family business and how he hoped that Micheal would be "Governor Corleone, Senator Corleone...".

Gondolin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3117 on: June 26, 2017, 03:30:16 PM »
Also, I've posted about my aunt before but, new developments require a fresh rant.

My aunt makes 300-400k a year depending on bonus. She lives alone with a big dog (used to be two) and travels for work about half the year. She also owns a 38 ft boat at an annual cost of ~20k.

Two years ago she announced she was going to downsize and move to FL. My family rejoiced that maybe she had seen the light.

Yesterday, she closed on a 4000 sq ft, 5 bedroom, 5 bathroom, 2 kitchen waterfront mansion with built-in pool. Which she will live in alone. When she's home ~180 days a year.

She is 65 and has no plans to retire despite complaining about how sick she is of traveling.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3118 on: June 26, 2017, 03:49:30 PM »
This is literally my future. I am also a pretty logical engineer, but my future MIL is very emotional. Both me and my boyfriend live well under our means mainly by living with roommates and driving cheap cars, and his parents are very judgmental because it's not the lifestyle an engineer should have apparently. And we shouldn't "go backwards" as they said once. I'm starting to think they're embarrassed by us, because they want to brag about how successful their son is through outwardly appearances of buying a house or fancy car.

I have no idea if this makes any sense to anyone, but I actually grew up believing, based on statements my mom made, that "the government only lets you buy a house that's less expensive than the one you currently own one time in your life before they penalize you."  The concept sounded to me like you're supposed to, or are required to keep "upgrading" your home every time you buy a new one until the very last one, when you retire, you're allowed to get a smaller, less expensive house.  This was said with some idea that there is a tax penalty or something for downsizing more than once.  I still can't figure out if it was my child-brain misinterpreting what she said, or if she was just saying something totally wrong and consumerist.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:52:37 PM by LeRainDrop »

Gondolin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3119 on: June 26, 2017, 04:02:48 PM »
Quote
the government only lets you buy a house that's less expensive than the one you currently own one time in your life before they penalize you."

Whaaaaat? Racking my brains to think of a way this would be true. Can't think of one. Even if there was a tax penalty, the gains on selling are tax free / taxed at the capital gains rate!

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3120 on: June 26, 2017, 04:26:13 PM »
Quote
the government only lets you buy a house that's less expensive than the one you currently own one time in your life before they penalize you."

Whaaaaat? Racking my brains to think of a way this would be true. Can't think of one. Even if there was a tax penalty, the gains on selling are tax free / taxed at the capital gains rate!

Yea, I could see how such twisted logic could  exist.  When the capital gains rules for primary residences changed,  it seemed like it took decades for the majority of the public to "get it". The question still appears occasionally in financial advice columns, where poster make it clear that they still don't have a clue, or are citing decades old, and incorrect, tax rules as facts.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3121 on: June 26, 2017, 04:50:14 PM »
If the problem really is because they see you are moving backwards and they also don't have bragging rights, explain what you are doing.

Here's a great blog that shows someone who has already done this.

http://rootofgood.com/about/


Give them a printed copy and tell them to read it before they bring up the subject again.   Then add that they will be able to brag about how you and your wife were able to make enough money to retire so very young and life the life you want.

doublethinkmoney

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3122 on: June 26, 2017, 05:33:56 PM »
That commute sounds amazing! With a kid on the way, anything that makes your life less work and easier will totally be worth it!


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AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3123 on: June 26, 2017, 07:34:07 PM »
My employer decided to give all full time employees a 50k life insurance policy; my primary beneficiary was obvious.  Then for the back up I asked my two cousins if they wanted to be listed - 'if you want to be the back up send me your dob/ssn/address'.  First cousin J. sends me the info in like 5 hours and says thanks.  Second one R. says they will get me the info.  Few days go by - nothing, I remind R. I need the info by monday.  No word at all from R. but is on FB so I know they read the message.  R. has a history of not replying to people or getting back to them - I did not want to cause drama but I did not want to reward R's behavior or pester someone about giving them money so I turned in the form monday afternoon with only J. listed.  R and J siblings so I really hope this does not cause problems.  I emailed there mother and told her what happened just so she was in the loop; J and R are both adults and this situation will not be surprising to the mother. 

Data privacy was definitely not a concern with R. and we have always been on good terms.  I very much understand that not everyone wants all gifts that are offered (boy do I know this from the receiver side!!!) but like most people could get around to sending a FB message for a modest shot at 25k.  R. is ~30 and makes modest money now and will become a SAHP soon, so like yeah 25k would be noticeable. 

Mezzie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3124 on: June 26, 2017, 08:17:41 PM »
The same has happened to me. Two of my siblings are beneficiaries on everything because they gave me their info; others, including nieces, cousins, and another sibling never got back to me. I may send out a reminder before our next family get-together for people to bring that info, and I can bring my computer and just do it all right there so they don't have to worry about anything.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3125 on: June 27, 2017, 05:06:01 AM »
My wife's oldest brother thought we were ridiculous when we downsized from our too-big split-level (sold for $315k) and bought a half-double in a good school district for $175k. What's the point of being rich if you live in a twin? - that's what he said.

You know what's funny, though? Of the four houses owned by my wife and her family nearby, ours, the smallest and oldest, is the best for family get-togethers, which are now approaching 20 people. The whole first floor is one big 15x45 space, so nobody who's cooking is left out, and the finished attic is a playroom, so I take the kids upstairs and the siblings can chat. Everybody else's houses are too split up and too jam-packed with crap to be comfortable.

marielle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3126 on: June 27, 2017, 06:04:01 AM »
If the problem really is because they see you are moving backwards and they also don't have bragging rights, explain what you are doing.

Here's a great blog that shows someone who has already done this.

http://rootofgood.com/about/


Give them a printed copy and tell them to read it before they bring up the subject again.   Then add that they will be able to brag about how you and your wife were able to make enough money to retire so very young and life the life you want.

I think we've briefly explained our goals, but eventually stopped talking about it because they think it's crazy to live with "only" $50k a year. Really, our spending isn't even that high, we were just trying to make it sound less extreme. His mom said she would be "comfortable" on $90k a year on retirement, and I'm assuming that's after a paid off house because they're going to have three properties in retirement. I have a feeling they will spend more than that during retirement considering property tax and everything, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure exactly how much they make now, but they're easily upper middle class. They are very in denial about how rich they are, having complained about Obamacare for example and how they shouldn't be paying so much, the 1% should be footing the bill for the rest. They made a comment last week about how they're "not made of money" so they didn't hire movers to move them to their new beach house (I have a feeling this was a guilt trip because my boyfriend helped me move and not them in the same weekend). I'm pretty sure they are literally the definition of made of money by most people's standards.

Pigeon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3127 on: June 27, 2017, 06:37:18 AM »
I just need to vent...

My father passed away last year and my mother has been dealing with the financial aftermath of the whole ordeal. One of those is a rental property they own, which they shouldn't had even bought to begin with, and one which was actually costing them money. The house is vacant now and we are working towards selling it.

On Sunday, while we are all visiting my mother, my younger brother (I have 4 bros) tells us that the semiannual taxes are due on the home and for everyone to split it evenly at a cost of $82 each.

I said, "Sure, I'll PayPal you," and so did my other two brothers.  My 38yo older brother instead responded, "I can only give you $50 since his wife is about to have the baby and I'm taking ten days off work without pay."

This was after showing us pics of the $125 wheels which he drove 3hrs. roundtrip to get off Craigslist for his project car the day before.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuckity​fuck.....  Like seriously????

I understand that you were not aware that an $82 "bill" was going to pop up out of nowhere, but how are you buying wheels for a project car if you know you're going to be without two weeks pay very soon, and apparently you don't have any money saved, because of you did, the extra $32 wouldn't be an issue?

I don't know what to say... I'm just so frustrated with him and his mentality. He's a great dad and a good brother but his financial stupidity makes me want to choke him.

It would depend on who actually owns the house to me.  If your father left it to your mother, I can understand your brother not being thrilled to be handed part of her property tax bill with no discussion about it.  If your father left the house equally to the brothers, that's different.

kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3128 on: June 27, 2017, 07:37:59 AM »
"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

You've done the math and the rare occurrence of a guest staying over doesn't justify the additional cost (rent/mortgage/utilities/cleaning) of another room. You'd probably come out ahead if you paid for a hotel each and every time someone wanted to come visit you.

Or there's always the blanket statement I like to use - "I'd rather work less than spend more."

I agree with you, cheapass, but my parents honestly believe that I should keep a guest room specifically so they can visit. They also keep guest rooms specifically so my brother and I can visit. Their parents keep guest rooms specifically so family can visit. Then they complain that we don't visit often enough. I complain that I'm working two jobs, they're retired, they should visit me instead... but I don't keep a guest room.  It's this weird, vicious cycle.

The real reason I don't keep a guest room is because I live with a much lower standard of living than any of my relatives, and got tired of hearing about it every time one of them stayed over. I'm happy, but my guests are uncomfortable. I'm considering an RV or something - I live in the city, but my family hate the city. An RV or cottage they can stay in just outside of town would be a great compromise.

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3129 on: June 27, 2017, 11:11:17 AM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3130 on: June 27, 2017, 11:43:01 AM »
Several years ago we offered to open 529s for our two nephews. The parents of the oldest nephew said thanks and said that was a good idea. However they have never actually provided us his SSN that would allow us to open an account, despite us asking a couple of times. The second newphew's parents gave us this lame song and dance about not wanting assets to count against their kid's future ability to qualify for aid and preferred that we give them the money as cash. Like hell we are going to do that.

So, two offers of free money and two rejections. I just don't get it.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3131 on: June 27, 2017, 11:50:42 AM »
Several years ago we offered to open 529s for our two nephews. The parents of the oldest nephew said thanks and said that was a good idea. However they have never actually provided us his SSN that would allow us to open an account, despite us asking a couple of times. The second newphew's parents gave us this lame song and dance about not wanting assets to count against their kid's future ability to qualify for aid and preferred that we give them the money as cash. Like hell we are going to do that.

So, two offers of free money and two rejections. I just don't get it.

The 529 legitimately fucked me for financial aid. Now, I wasn't really screwed because my parents and I had saved, but I could have had free money, but the 529 worked against me. Because I was responsible, I didn't get financial aid. Wonderful.

(Financial aid meaning scholarships, not loans)

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3132 on: June 27, 2017, 12:40:00 PM »
Whether that would be true in their particular situation I cannot say. I can say that we don't really trust their money management skills, so we are not willing to give them cash to keep under a mattress until the kid is old enough for college.

I would have thought that some money in a 529 would be better than nothing, but perhaps not. To each their own.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3133 on: June 27, 2017, 01:29:12 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3134 on: June 27, 2017, 02:08:49 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3135 on: June 27, 2017, 02:24:34 PM »
Kelvin, your parents need to get their own life, friends, etc. At 63 I enjoy my adult kids but my life revolves around our friends, activities, etc. When we visit my son that lives out of town we sleep in his bed and he sleeps on a blow up air mattress in the DR. The house he rents is old and rundown but clean, etc and i could care less. I am there to see him. My sons that live in town I have over to dinner every week or 2 and they invite us over too. I do more of the cooking because I only work p.t. and they both work f.t. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3136 on: June 27, 2017, 02:29:51 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My mother visits her mother twice a year for three days at a time. She wants me to visit her every month. I've now moved to the same city and she's all up in my business. We have had a tense relationship in the past and it's slowly getting better now I've set some very firm boundaries, but if she wants me to have a better relationship with her than she has with her mother, she's going to need to give me a reason. My grandmother is a lovely person - I'm sure the two of them have some historic beef just the same way I have with my mother, but do unto others, right?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3137 on: June 27, 2017, 02:31:40 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3138 on: June 27, 2017, 02:56:53 PM »
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

paddedhat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3139 on: June 27, 2017, 03:09:55 PM »

Regarding the name calling (Lazy) and obnoxious response by the in-laws. I put up with a similar response when we switched homes, to better accommodate our young kids and recently disabled wife. Simply put, the new home didn't suit my mom's concept of "moving up" and she decided the way to handle it was to be a snarky bitch. This was followed by two other uncalled for unpleasant comments in the following months. The DW and I handled it well. We  gave her the cold shoulder for a few months, until she decided she needed to "confront" us on why she was being treated so poorly. I then laid out that we were now on the Golden Rule program, and if she had anything nasty to say, she could either keep her pie hole shut, or expect to be shown the door. We treat others with dignity and respect and expect the same of her. If she chose to be nasty, she wasn't welcomed to be part of our lives. She was stunned by the fact that her own son called her out on her bullshit, but it completely stopped the problem. 

You're stuck with the inlaws, but IMHO, hell would freeze over before they called me lazy, and were not quickly educated on the fact that they have crossed the line, and will regret ever doing it again.

Good for you! 

It took several equally blunt discussions between my mom and I to get her behavior to be acceptable.  Never got past acceptable because she just couldn't let her preconceptions go.   And I mean to her dying day.  Literally.

Wow, I couldn't of written your reply to the letter.  It's weird, my step dad died in 2003, and I still miss him. Logic says that I should feel the same way about dear old mom,  but dealing with somebody who was a controlling pain in the ass, doesn't creating an everlasting longing, after they're gone. It's a strange cocktail of sadness, regret and relief.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3140 on: June 27, 2017, 04:13:49 PM »
I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3141 on: June 27, 2017, 07:12:53 PM »
I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

One of my aunts treats me like I am 15.  For this and a few other reasons I have largely cut off contact with her.  In many ways I am lucky she lives out of the country and there is no chance of regular contact.  I have nearly decided that she will never be welcome in my home as there is a better than 50% chance she will be highly disrespectful to me (honestly unintentionally on her part) and it would end what little tolerance I have for her.  You can only give allowance for someone else having good intentions for so long before you have to look at the pure content of there actions.

Between my aunt and an ex GF I have learned that someone can love you, legitimately want the best for you and even work towards what they think is good for you but still not be a positive influence in your life. 


kelvin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3142 on: June 28, 2017, 12:53:54 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year. Sure "there's always a room open" for them, but they never use it. But for me it's expected that I visit regularly, and my parents count the weeks in between visits, like some sort of pining lover. It's ridiculous.

Cassie I am so jealous of your kids. Dad's gotten better since he remarried - I love my stepmom, she's great for him, and she has an entire herd of grandchildren to keep him busy. Even so, for the first 6 years of their marriage there was the constant refrain of "it's different when it's not your own grandkids" as if somehow being surrounded by people who loved him made him lonely. (Neither my brother nor I have children, or intend to soon.)

I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm somehow responsible for my parent's feelings, and we all know how well emotions + money go together.

Proud Foot

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3143 on: June 28, 2017, 01:47:02 PM »
The 529 legitimately fucked me for financial aid. Now, I wasn't really screwed because my parents and I had saved, but I could have had free money, but the 529 worked against me. Because I was responsible, I didn't get financial aid. Wonderful.

(Financial aid meaning scholarships, not loans)
Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.
Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.
The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

This seems like it would fit in the "OP doesn't see it" thread. Yes the leftover money being "stuck" does suck but I don't really feel bad about the fact that you and your parents worked hard and planned ahead to have money set aside for your education. Especially as you still were able to graduate debt free. Sounds to me like that scholarship money was able to be given to someone who had financial need. And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3144 on: June 28, 2017, 01:58:02 PM »
And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing". I suppose one way around it is to liquidate your accounts and buy gold a couple years before your kids start filling out college forms?

mtn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3145 on: June 28, 2017, 02:07:20 PM »
And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing".

Yes, this.

TaraB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3146 on: June 28, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
My quasi-adopted brother J has been "part of the family" for over 10 years. He's close with my mom and my brother (and was close with my deceased step-dad). We consider him and his wife A part of the family.

J did a stint in prison before we knew him, which affected his employability. At some point he went on disability, somewhat legitimately because of ongoing back surgeries (blah blah I don't know the details). He does dog training and odd jobs on the side. J and A got together in 2013 ish. Eventually he moved out of his parents' house (at age 40) and into her rented apartment. They bought a house together, got knocked up and married at the end of 2014. But since his income is limited/under the table, they bought the house on her salary alone. Modest 3 BR, nice yard for their 3 large dogs. Close to her work (10 minutes). As soon as A got pregnant they had to lease a top of the line minivan, in addition to their top of the line Ford Escape (which replaced a short-lived top-of-the-line Chevy Avalanche)......I can only imagine what their car payments must look like.

J has to have the newest iPhone the second it comes out. He has the Apple watch (not sure if he has upgraded). Baby 1 required a schmancy video system so they could live-stream him....sleeping in his crib? A reigns him in on a lot of things, she coupons and shops Aldi and has some good frugal bones. J's parents continue to subsidize his lifestyle (it's their 5th grandbaby, they only have 1 5th grandbaby). J also likes to go to Atlantic City and gamble.......

Fast forward to early 2017. A is knocked up again (on purpose). J gets in his head from his realtor best friend that they should buy a rental property with a down payment from J's parents. Somehow this morphs into J's parents buying a newer, bigger house for J and A and the babies and they'll rent out the modest appropriate 3 br house. In a town that has little industry and subsists on tourist income. But not in a tourist area. ("But J's parents helped buy J's older brother a house! They should also buy J a house!" meanwhile they're in their 70s and would rather be doing retiree things...)

New house is wayyyyyy bigger. (I saw it this weekend for baby 1's birthday). Also wayyyy further from A's work. Keep in mind, she is the salaried one with the health insurance. They just moved in last week, and A is due with baby 2 at the end of July. Obviously since the house is so much bigger, J's parents have to buy them more stuff!!! A fence for the pool! A dining room table! A fancy umbrella for their outdoor patio!

Nevermind that J bought his 2 year old a huge monstrosity Jeep toddler bed that the kid is too afraid to sleep in.

I walked around that house and I looked at one room and all I could think is "What is the purpose of this room?? that's the dining room over there, what is the functional purpose of this damn room?!?" (Baby playroom, natch).

New fancy house required J's parents to supply the down payment. They also must keep their old house rented out (and are probably barely breaking even). And her commute is too long to come home and see her baby/ies at lunch.

As I've watched this, I can't help but think that she's going to start hiding money from him so that she can divorce him and take the kids in a few years.

(Sidebar- when my stepdad died, J was the one who said he would come mow my mom's lawn at 2 in the morning if she needed it.....he is there for her even more than my own brother sometimes, but I'm thankful we're not ACTUALLY related because my family is much different with money).

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3147 on: June 28, 2017, 03:17:43 PM »
I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year.

Exactly my point. Your parents are trying the old do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do trick. You don't need to fall for it.

I do think you should point the discrepancy out to them. It will either (a) get them to back off, or (b) nudge them into a little more of the kind of filial behavior they're trying to demand from you, which will take up at least some of their time and attention so as to get the pressure off of you.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3148 on: June 28, 2017, 03:56:25 PM »
@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #3149 on: June 29, 2017, 06:08:36 AM »
@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

He can be really sweet, and he IS a good guy, he just spends wayyyyy beyond his means and always will. (There's also a biological clock factor- she's 36 ish about to pop out baby #2.)