Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 639434 times)

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #600 on: November 16, 2015, 01:23:38 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3221
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #601 on: November 16, 2015, 02:27:06 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

I agree that if someone wants to give you a gift, I might mention something that I would like but might not get on my own. For instance, I would like some good knives along with a magnetic strip to hold them to the wall so that I can have them isolated from other cutlery. Or a good vacuum cleaner, or a coffee table would also be nice.

frugalparagon

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3166
    • The Frugal Paragon
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #602 on: November 16, 2015, 05:38:26 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

I agree that if someone wants to give you a gift, I might mention something that I would like but might not get on my own. For instance, I would like some good knives along with a magnetic strip to hold them to the wall so that I can have them isolated from other cutlery. Or a good vacuum cleaner, or a coffee table would also be nice.

Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things? I want dishwasher-safe steak knives, a new mini food processor (mine is kind of broken and requires some finessing to work these days), a kitchen food scale, a couple of nice dish towels, etc.
I blog about Mustachianism during the child-raising years at frugalparagon.com.

maco

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 422
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #603 on: November 16, 2015, 07:41:36 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

I agree that if someone wants to give you a gift, I might mention something that I would like but might not get on my own. For instance, I would like some good knives along with a magnetic strip to hold them to the wall so that I can have them isolated from other cutlery. Or a good vacuum cleaner, or a coffee table would also be nice.

Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things? I want dishwasher-safe steak knives, a new mini food processor (mine is kind of broken and requires some finessing to work these days), a kitchen food scale, a couple of nice dish towels, etc.
My Christmas list has faucets and towel bars in the same finish as the lighting and cabinet hardware for the bathroom, because the previous owners used 3 different metal finishes. Also, weaving accessories. (Yes, I'm a weaver)

MsChewieBear

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #604 on: November 16, 2015, 07:41:51 PM »
I could fill a whole forum with stories about my in-laws (my FIL and his second wife).

* FIL took a 401(k) loan to put a wraparound deck on their house. I won't lie; the deck is beautiful. The problem is that they hardly use it, and they never invite anyone over. There was really no point in paying for such an extravagant entertainment area when they don't entertain anyone.

* They go out for lunch and dinner almost every day. SW would never set foot in a place like Olive Garden; it's got to be a high-class place. The dinner bills wouldn't be so bad, except she'll order an expensive entree, an appetizer, five glasses of wine at $8 each, an after-dinner cappuccino, and several cups of espresso. The one time my FIL put his foot down and said he didn't want to stay for another cup of cappuccino, she threw an absolute tantrum.

* SW refuses to buy anything that isn't fancy/designer, whether it's cosmetics, clothing, furniture, or decorative items. She once had me order a $55 bottle of shampoo for her on Amazon because it's not available in the U.S. (it probably has some banned chemical in it).

* SW loves to spend money on all kinds of natural treatments/remedies: colonics, crystals, essential oils/diffusers, etc.

* SW loves to talk about all the places they've been and things they've bought (e.g. a $250 bottle of whiskey). They have never stayed at a La Quinta Inn or even a Hyatt; it's always the Four Seasons, the Hay Adams, etc.

All of the above wouldn't be so bad if they were truly wealthy and things were going well, but here's the kicker. My FIL runs a failing business that is in danger of closing within a year or two. The property taxes on the building/land haven't been paid since 2012. My husband used to work for his father, and there were many times he had to hold his paycheck for several days because there wasn't enough to cover it. FIL and SW are losing customers left and right because they couldn't afford to keep all of their employees; they laid off all but one full-time person, so their production capacity is greatly reduced.

The worst part is that my FIL and his wife have been living high on the hog for years, but when my husband asked him for a raise to a measly $8 per hour, he said no. My husband had to quit the job, and his dad was so mad that they were estranged for months.

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #605 on: November 16, 2015, 08:01:04 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

I agree that if someone wants to give you a gift, I might mention something that I would like but might not get on my own. For instance, I would like some good knives along with a magnetic strip to hold them to the wall so that I can have them isolated from other cutlery. Or a good vacuum cleaner, or a coffee table would also be nice.

Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things? I want dishwasher-safe steak knives, a new mini food processor (mine is kind of broken and requires some finessing to work these days), a kitchen food scale, a couple of nice dish towels, etc.
My Christmas list has faucets and towel bars in the same finish as the lighting and cabinet hardware for the bathroom, because the previous owners used 3 different metal finishes. Also, weaving accessories. (Yes, I'm a weaver)

I asked for a mat for the balcony door. Not just the $5 coir one, but the fancy $15 jute one. My husband rolled his eyes at me and told me to just buy it.

Vertical Mode

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 400
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Boston, MA
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #606 on: November 16, 2015, 11:58:49 PM »
I could fill a whole forum with stories about my in-laws (my FIL and his second wife).

* FIL took a 401(k) loan to put a wraparound deck on their house. I won't lie; the deck is beautiful. The problem is that they hardly use it, and they never invite anyone over. There was really no point in paying for such an extravagant entertainment area when they don't entertain anyone.

* They go out for lunch and dinner almost every day. SW would never set foot in a place like Olive Garden; it's got to be a high-class place. The dinner bills wouldn't be so bad, except she'll order an expensive entree, an appetizer, five glasses of wine at $8 each, an after-dinner cappuccino, and several cups of espresso. The one time my FIL put his foot down and said he didn't want to stay for another cup of cappuccino, she threw an absolute tantrum.

* SW refuses to buy anything that isn't fancy/designer, whether it's cosmetics, clothing, furniture, or decorative items. She once had me order a $55 bottle of shampoo for her on Amazon because it's not available in the U.S. (it probably has some banned chemical in it).

* SW loves to spend money on all kinds of natural treatments/remedies: colonics, crystals, essential oils/diffusers, etc.

* SW loves to talk about all the places they've been and things they've bought (e.g. a $250 bottle of whiskey). They have never stayed at a La Quinta Inn or even a Hyatt; it's always the Four Seasons, the Hay Adams, etc.

All of the above wouldn't be so bad if they were truly wealthy and things were going well, but here's the kicker. My FIL runs a failing business that is in danger of closing within a year or two. The property taxes on the building/land haven't been paid since 2012. My husband used to work for his father, and there were many times he had to hold his paycheck for several days because there wasn't enough to cover it. FIL and SW are losing customers left and right because they couldn't afford to keep all of their employees; they laid off all but one full-time person, so their production capacity is greatly reduced.

The worst part is that my FIL and his wife have been living high on the hog for years, but when my husband asked him for a raise to a measly $8 per hour, he said no. My husband had to quit the job, and his dad was so mad that they were estranged for months.

My head nearly exploded while reading this.

Holy. Shit. The cognitive dissonance!
"That is why you will never be a good detective, Cato. It's so obvious, it cannot POSSIBLY be a trap..."

Link to my Journal: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/trending-vertical-vertical-modes-journal/

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3221
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #607 on: November 17, 2015, 01:24:20 AM »
I could fill a whole forum with stories about my in-laws (my FIL and his second wife).

* FIL took a 401(k) loan to put a wraparound deck on their house. I won't lie; the deck is beautiful. The problem is that they hardly use it, and they never invite anyone over. There was really no point in paying for such an extravagant entertainment area when they don't entertain anyone.

* They go out for lunch and dinner almost every day. SW would never set foot in a place like Olive Garden; it's got to be a high-class place. The dinner bills wouldn't be so bad, except she'll order an expensive entree, an appetizer, five glasses of wine at $8 each, an after-dinner cappuccino, and several cups of espresso. The one time my FIL put his foot down and said he didn't want to stay for another cup of cappuccino, she threw an absolute tantrum.

* SW refuses to buy anything that isn't fancy/designer, whether it's cosmetics, clothing, furniture, or decorative items. She once had me order a $55 bottle of shampoo for her on Amazon because it's not available in the U.S. (it probably has some banned chemical in it).

* SW loves to spend money on all kinds of natural treatments/remedies: colonics, crystals, essential oils/diffusers, etc.

* SW loves to talk about all the places they've been and things they've bought (e.g. a $250 bottle of whiskey). They have never stayed at a La Quinta Inn or even a Hyatt; it's always the Four Seasons, the Hay Adams, etc.

All of the above wouldn't be so bad if they were truly wealthy and things were going well, but here's the kicker. My FIL runs a failing business that is in danger of closing within a year or two. The property taxes on the building/land haven't been paid since 2012. My husband used to work for his father, and there were many times he had to hold his paycheck for several days because there wasn't enough to cover it. FIL and SW are losing customers left and right because they couldn't afford to keep all of their employees; they laid off all but one full-time person, so their production capacity is greatly reduced.

The worst part is that my FIL and his wife have been living high on the hog for years, but when my husband asked him for a raise to a measly $8 per hour, he said no. My husband had to quit the job, and his dad was so mad that they were estranged for months.

My head nearly exploded while reading this.

Holy. Shit. The cognitive dissonance!

Were they making good money in the past? I can imagine it is hard for some to step down expenses when they aren't making nearly as much. A customer of mine who I have become good friends with has told me that he's realizing how much he's been spending now that he isn't earning nearly as much as he did last year, in the past we've talked about our spending, he keeps telling me that I'm too cheap and that I need to live more.

wenchsenior

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 867
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #608 on: November 17, 2015, 07:46:25 AM »
I could fill a whole forum with stories about my in-laws (my FIL and his second wife).

* FIL took a 401(k) loan to put a wraparound deck on their house. I won't lie; the deck is beautiful. The problem is that they hardly use it, and they never invite anyone over. There was really no point in paying for such an extravagant entertainment area when they don't entertain anyone.

* They go out for lunch and dinner almost every day. SW would never set foot in a place like Olive Garden; it's got to be a high-class place. The dinner bills wouldn't be so bad, except she'll order an expensive entree, an appetizer, five glasses of wine at $8 each, an after-dinner cappuccino, and several cups of espresso. The one time my FIL put his foot down and said he didn't want to stay for another cup of cappuccino, she threw an absolute tantrum.

* SW refuses to buy anything that isn't fancy/designer, whether it's cosmetics, clothing, furniture, or decorative items. She once had me order a $55 bottle of shampoo for her on Amazon because it's not available in the U.S. (it probably has some banned chemical in it).

* SW loves to spend money on all kinds of natural treatments/remedies: colonics, crystals, essential oils/diffusers, etc.

* SW loves to talk about all the places they've been and things they've bought (e.g. a $250 bottle of whiskey). They have never stayed at a La Quinta Inn or even a Hyatt; it's always the Four Seasons, the Hay Adams, etc.

All of the above wouldn't be so bad if they were truly wealthy and things were going well, but here's the kicker. My FIL runs a failing business that is in danger of closing within a year or two. The property taxes on the building/land haven't been paid since 2012. My husband used to work for his father, and there were many times he had to hold his paycheck for several days because there wasn't enough to cover it. FIL and SW are losing customers left and right because they couldn't afford to keep all of their employees; they laid off all but one full-time person, so their production capacity is greatly reduced.

The worst part is that my FIL and his wife have been living high on the hog for years, but when my husband asked him for a raise to a measly $8 per hour, he said no. My husband had to quit the job, and his dad was so mad that they were estranged for months.

:boggles in horror:

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #609 on: November 17, 2015, 09:53:51 AM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #610 on: November 17, 2015, 10:01:19 AM »
I totally had a "this conversation belongs in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame" moment over the weekend.

We traveled out-of-state to see family this weekend. My SIL and BIL are having twin babies soon, which is very exciting. They are a little older than my wife and I, and have established excellent careers. I don't know how much exactly they make, but BIL got a large raise and promotion in the engineering/science field. My guess is they make well over six figures. Probably 140-160K.

It wasn't always this good. Just a couple of years ago, BIL was trying to return to the workforce after graduating from Law School. He went all the way through (on a good scholarship), only to find out that he wasn't interested in law. It was painful to watch at the time as he grew more depressed, trying to find any job. He would have even been happy to take his pre-law school job. It took him about a year to find his current employment. Right after this, he stated that they had nearly gone broke trying to live off of SIL's income (I'm guessing she makes 45-55K/year + bonus).

You would think that this experience would traumatize them into being frugal, rapidly paying off student loans and stashing the money away? Nope. Here is a list of things they have done in the past 2 1/2 years since he was hired:
- Stated that student loans will take 30 years to pay off
- Purchased a house with a small down payment -  they borrowed $5,000 from my wife's parents because they couldn't afford the down payment, and then took a year to pay it back.
- Regularly attend major league sporting events
- Leased a Ford Expedition

Which brings me to this weekend, when they showed up to the get-together with a 2012, nice Ford-150. It only cost $25,000 (what a deal!). "I could never go back to driving a car," he said. During the conversation about his new truck, BIL revealed to me the real reason for this purchase: he needs it so he can buy toys - and first on that list is a boat. I was speechless ... just listened and tried to remember to smile...

No, I wouldn't think that at all. Most likely, in their mind, they have gone through a hardship and now deserve all these things that their new life situation "allows" them to have. While I have no data to support this, I'm fairly certain this mindset is pretty commonplace. Look at how many doctors go out and buy a bunch of expensive stuff once they start making "real doctor money" when they still have boatloads of student loans. Same thing can be said for lawyers. Same thing can be said for fresh college graduates that managed to land a well paying fresh out of college job who go out and buy a flashy and/or gas guzzling expensive new car instead of
a) not buying a car at all and finding a place to live in biking range, with Uber or taxi supplements as required 
b) buying a non flashy fuel efficient used car 
c) or at the very least, if they really want a new car, at least get a fuel efficient one

Not that I have any data to back this up. If you want to challenge me on that then go ahead.

I think everyone can agree though that consumerism is pretty engrained in most people's minds these days.
+1

Cookie78

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1497
  • Location: Canada
    • Cookie's Goals
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #611 on: November 17, 2015, 11:30:59 AM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

Oh wow! THIS so much! I've been hearing a lot of that type of language lately and it drives me crazy. "My hubby won't let me do a road trip across southwest US unless I find a friend to go with me." "My adult children won't let me travel to Europe." "My mother won't let me stay at home for Christmas (from a 30+ year old)." I can't even imagine feeling so under the control of other people that you can't live your own life the way you want to.

It drives me crazy!

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #612 on: November 17, 2015, 12:56:14 PM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

OMG. This. I occasionally ask my husband's opinion about something ("does this sweater look good?", or "do you care if I shave my legs in winter?" - to answers of "your other one looks better" and "I have tits in my face, why would I care", respectively) but I can guarantee that if he said anything along the lines of "don't cut your hair, I don't want you to" my FIRST phone call would be to a hairdresser. Or to whichever friend I know with a buzzcut and the means to maintain it.

Similarly, when my husband said he might cut his hair, the extent of my stated opinion was "It's your hair and your head, do what you want. Just don't get a haircut that requires regular barber shop trips without telling me first because that affects the budget." Because I DO prefer it long, but that's not the POINT. And in the end, he brought me a pair of scissors and asked me to cut off about 8 inches of hair... so now he's got shoulder-length hair that's less baby-grab-able, which was his concern, needs less conditionner, AND he looks smoking hot. Win. :)

AerynLee

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 674
  • Age: 31
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #613 on: November 17, 2015, 01:21:05 PM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

OMG. This. I occasionally ask my husband's opinion about something ("does this sweater look good?", or "do you care if I shave my legs in winter?" - to answers of "your other one looks better" and "I have tits in my face, why would I care", respectively) but I can guarantee that if he said anything along the lines of "don't cut your hair, I don't want you to" my FIRST phone call would be to a hairdresser. Or to whichever friend I know with a buzzcut and the means to maintain it.

Lol, I'm not the only one! My supervisor says her husband freaks out every time she cuts her hair ("Women should have long hair!")...I can't even tell the difference when she does. Granted, she's in the older generation, her daughter is a couple years older than me, but I'd be running for a buzz cut if my DH tried to dictate how long my hair should be.
I chopped about eight inches off earlier this year, ended up chin to shoulder length area and I couldn't even get my DH to tell me which way he preferred, he really just doesn't care. Interestingly I still have the second longest hair out of seven women in my office.

DH will use the excuse "The wife won't let me" if he doesn't want to do something which kind of irks me but I understand he's trying to not hurt other's feelings

Sibley

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1748
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Chicago, IL
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #614 on: November 17, 2015, 01:23:13 PM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

OMG. This. I occasionally ask my husband's opinion about something ("does this sweater look good?", or "do you care if I shave my legs in winter?" - to answers of "your other one looks better" and "I have tits in my face, why would I care", respectively) but I can guarantee that if he said anything along the lines of "don't cut your hair, I don't want you to" my FIRST phone call would be to a hairdresser. Or to whichever friend I know with a buzzcut and the means to maintain it.

Lol, I'm not the only one! My supervisor says her husband freaks out every time she cuts her hair ("Women should have long hair!")...I can't even tell the difference when she does. Granted, she's in the older generation, her daughter is a couple years older than me, but I'd be running for a buzz cut if my DH tried to dictate how long my hair should be.
I chopped about eight inches off earlier this year, ended up chin to shoulder length area and I couldn't even get my DH to tell me which way he preferred, he really just doesn't care. Interestingly I still have the second longest hair out of seven women in my office.

DH will use the excuse "The wife won't let me" if he doesn't want to do something which kind of irks me but I understand he's trying to not hurt other's feelings

Ex BF had a stated, and vocal, preference for women with long hair. I have short hair. Did I mention he's the ex BF?

MsChewieBear

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #615 on: November 17, 2015, 02:49:10 PM »

Were they making good money in the past? I can imagine it is hard for some to step down expenses when they aren't making nearly as much. A customer of mine who I have become good friends with has told me that he's realizing how much he's been spending now that he isn't earning nearly as much as he did last year, in the past we've talked about our spending, he keeps telling me that I'm too cheap and that I need to live more.

Yeah, the company was really successful when my husband's grandfather was alive. He was the true salesman. My FIL refuses to speak to customers and won't hire a service manager or someone to handle issues. He has two part-time secretaries (so he doesn't have to give anybody benefits), but he has them work 11 to 4, so no one answers the phone from 7 a.m. until the secretaries get in at 11:00.

I totally get that it's hard to go from a life of luxury to living a bit more frugally, but SW is totally ridiculous and my FIL doesn't have the courage to say anything about it. At this point, I think it's probably an emotionally abusive relationship, except she's the abuser (when they met, he was almost 50, and she was only in her mid-20s; she's just 10 years older than my husband).

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
  • Location: Central TX
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #616 on: November 18, 2015, 12:51:20 PM »
The in-laws are moving from NY to TX for retirement.  Financially inept their entire lives, I'm getting to see more of their poor decisions as I assist in the process.

I'm attempting to sell their furniture and belongings through Craig's List - they aren't computer savvy at all.  I suspected that my MIL had a wicked HSN habit, I just didn't realize how bad.  This is a woman who has never made more than $38K/year, and blows well north of $400/mo just to take the express bus instead of the train to get to work, and then stop off at a cafe to have breakfast.

If Wolfgang Puck made it and sold it on HSN, she has it.  I've listed the following items, all of which have seen little to no use: Food processor, Pressure Cooker, Rice Cooker, Panini Grill, Coffee Maker, Blender, and a Nutri Bullet.  Seriously spent hundreds on each ""high end" item, b/c they are of good quality and will last, that's what she believes.

Outdoor equipment includes a pressure washer, a combo leaf blower/mulcher/vacuum, and a wet dry vac.  Lives in an apartment, and the exterior is maintained by a gardner!

Even though they knew they were moving, they went ahead and bought a top of the line shredder a few months ago.  Haven't used it yet (but took it out of the box so they can't return it), they are just stacking all the stuff they think they need to shred, but they are upset that they will sell it for a loss, since shipping such a heavy item probably doesn't make any sense.  The idea of going to Wal-Mart and buying a $30 cheapie never crossed their minds.

Both MIL & FIL have flip phones (good), but pay close to $50/mo each for service (bad).  I picked up two Republic Wireless Moto G's, lightly used off Ebay, and set up new accounts for them, with new local phone numbers.  I shipped the phones to them, so they could get accustomed to the smart phones before the next payment on their flip phones comes due.  (No contract, thankfully)  While doing some training on the phone, I discovered that they pay for WiFi.  They don't even have a computer, these phones are the closest thing to it.  And it's not like they have a VOIP home phone or a combined TV/Phone/Internet package, where it might make sense to bundle on a service you don't use.

On and on it goes.  Scary stuff.  My co-worker suggested I set up their TV service and block all shopping channels.  Never thought of it, but it sounds like a good idea!

Geostache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #617 on: November 18, 2015, 01:14:01 PM »
The other day, my Mother was asking me about what to get me for my birthday (which is still half a year away). "Mom, I don't need or want anything for my birthday. Mom, "Oh, come on, you're not going to deny me the opportunity to get you something for your birthday!" Me, "Ok, Mom, give me cash." Mom, "You're just going to put it in the kids' college fund!" Me, "Yes, exactly."


Ask her for the most anti-Mustachian item that you secretly desire in your heart of hearts ... out with it ... you know you want it ...

Last Christmas my parents gave me a Happy Hacker Pro (tm) keyboard:  http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Professional2-Black/dp/B000EXZ0VC/
Gas station gift cards.

I agree that if someone wants to give you a gift, I might mention something that I would like but might not get on my own. For instance, I would like some good knives along with a magnetic strip to hold them to the wall so that I can have them isolated from other cutlery. Or a good vacuum cleaner, or a coffee table would also be nice.

Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things? I want dishwasher-safe steak knives, a new mini food processor (mine is kind of broken and requires some finessing to work these days), a kitchen food scale, a couple of nice dish towels, etc.
My Christmas list has faucets and towel bars in the same finish as the lighting and cabinet hardware for the bathroom, because the previous owners used 3 different metal finishes. Also, weaving accessories. (Yes, I'm a weaver)

I settled for a gift certificate to a local spa, and treated myself to a facial. I've now figured out to ask for things that I would do anyway, that can also pass as something that is gift-like, such gift certificates to local restaurants. I also found a nice leather satchel that I can wear with my Renaissance garb (I'm in a semi-pro madrigal group). I would love to receive household improvement items as a present, but that wouldn't fly with my mom.

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #618 on: November 18, 2015, 04:12:20 PM »
I had been feeling so smug about my organised, low-key Christmas. Too soon, apparently.

For a couple of years my MiL has talked about needing to cut back on gifts at Christmas. We were very encouraging, they need to be saving for retirement and we've been getting out of debt.

So last December we settled on a bottle swap - they buy us our favourite spirits, we buy them champagne, easy.

Then they bought us spirits AND $300 Bluetooth speakers.

After Christmas my MiL raved about the 'minimal' Christmas, and said she wanted to go even smaller next year. Yes! A couple of months ago I reminded her of the bottle swap and we agreed on it.

Last night she called my husband and said she needed ideas for gifts.

My husband reminded her of the bottle swap, she said she has to buy us more than that, but doesn't want to buy us anything we don't want (apparently I talk about decluttering so much I've put the fear of God into people who try to buy me gifts).

We don't have ideas. We don't need stuff.

As mentioned above, I could probably name one or two slightly indulgent things, but I am reluctant to do that without a price guide. (They talk about cutting back, then spend hundreds on us, and recently inherited six figures and have been a bit spendy so I don't even have a ballpark.)

Goldielocks

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3526
  • Location: BC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #619 on: November 18, 2015, 04:25:46 PM »
I had been feeling so smug about my organised, low-key Christmas. Too soon, apparently.

For a couple of years my MiL has talked about needing to cut back on gifts at Christmas. We were very encouraging, they need to be saving for retirement and we've been getting out of debt.

So last December we settled on a bottle swap - they buy us our favourite spirits, we buy them champagne, easy.

Then they bought us spirits AND $300 Bluetooth speakers.

After Christmas my MiL raved about the 'minimal' Christmas, and said she wanted to go even smaller next year. Yes! A couple of months ago I reminded her of the bottle swap and we agreed on it.

Last night she called my husband and said she needed ideas for gifts.

My husband reminded her of the bottle swap, she said she has to buy us more than that, but doesn't want to buy us anything we don't want (apparently I talk about decluttering so much I've put the fear of God into people who try to buy me gifts).

We don't have ideas. We don't need stuff.

As mentioned above, I could probably name one or two slightly indulgent things, but I am reluctant to do that without a price guide. (They talk about cutting back, then spend hundreds on us, and recently inherited six figures and have been a bit spendy so I don't even have a ballpark.)

What about asking for this?  There are versions as low as $10...  useful little gadgets.  I have ordered the parts and batteries and am assembling some myself as presents for those few hold outs in my family that get presents.

http://www.pny.com/powerpack-2600?sku=P-B-2600-1-S01-RB

Pooperman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
  • Age: 27
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #620 on: November 18, 2015, 04:39:50 PM »
I had been feeling so smug about my organised, low-key Christmas. Too soon, apparently.

For a couple of years my MiL has talked about needing to cut back on gifts at Christmas. We were very encouraging, they need to be saving for retirement and we've been getting out of debt.

So last December we settled on a bottle swap - they buy us our favourite spirits, we buy them champagne, easy.

Then they bought us spirits AND $300 Bluetooth speakers.

After Christmas my MiL raved about the 'minimal' Christmas, and said she wanted to go even smaller next year. Yes! A couple of months ago I reminded her of the bottle swap and we agreed on it.

Last night she called my husband and said she needed ideas for gifts.

My husband reminded her of the bottle swap, she said she has to buy us more than that, but doesn't want to buy us anything we don't want (apparently I talk about decluttering so much I've put the fear of God into people who try to buy me gifts).

We don't have ideas. We don't need stuff.

As mentioned above, I could probably name one or two slightly indulgent things, but I am reluctant to do that without a price guide. (They talk about cutting back, then spend hundreds on us, and recently inherited six figures and have been a bit spendy so I don't even have a ballpark.)

Ask for a hug?

tthree

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 378
  • Location: Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #621 on: November 18, 2015, 07:27:48 PM »
DH will use the excuse "The wife won't let me" if he doesn't want to do something which kind of irks me but I understand he's trying to not hurt other's feelings
If this only irks you, I consider you a saint.  I LOATHE "the wife won't let me" line.

Every once in a while I get the "can I do this?" phone call.  To which the response is something like this, "You are an adult and you can make your own decisions.  In the 15+ years we have been together have I ever told you you CAN'T do something?  No.  Then why are you asking?"

Spoiler: He is asking because he thinks it is a bad idea. 

So the next few lines are:  "If YOU think it is a bad idea, and YOU don't want to do it, then have the balls to say so.  I am not giving you prior approvable to make what you think is a bad decision, and I refuse to be painted as the bad guy.  This one's on you."

If he asked me my opinion, that would be a much more pleasant conversation:)

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3496
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #622 on: November 18, 2015, 07:36:18 PM »
My SIL and BIL both have pretty senior jobs with the DoD that require Top Secret clearances.  Best I can tell, they're typical consumers relying on future pensions.  I know they've had some fights over money and spend lavishly by my standards, but nothing ridiculous by normal consumer standards.

Anyways, they had a blow-up fight that nearly led to a divorce and required my wife's parents to fly out and calm them both down.  It turns out, they'd both "forgotten" to file their taxes for the past ~seven years, and were blaming it on each other.  Never mind that they'd only been married ~4 years at that point.

Seriously, how do you forget to FILE taxes?  Particularly when you have to qualify for a TOP SECRET SECURITY CLEARANCE?

They even got a refund of ~$20K+ after handing everything over to an accountant to figure out for them.

How do you work for the government and not file your taxes?!?! For SEVEN YEARS!?!? So dumb.

Of course the reason they were able to get away with it is because they were getting a refund. That was very kind of them to lend the Treasury $20k though.

Sounds like they most likely also GAVE the Treasury ~$25k in addition to the loan. The IRS only gives refunds for the prior 3 years. After that, you're SOL.

A friend of mine did the same thing. I punched everything into TurboTax for her for the current year and prior 2 years at the beginning of April when I discovered this in conversation about filing taxes (very simple returns.) Every one of them was money back, but she couldn't be bothered to search for the information for the final year we could get a refund. I don't know if she had ever filed her taxes....
You know, this is fresh in my mind because I just filed to renew my TS, but they do ask (every time) if you have ever failed to FILE or PAY taxes when due.
And they do not look kindly on falsifying answers. How the fuck can anyone be so dumb?
I am not a cog. I am an organizational lubricant.

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3496
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #623 on: November 18, 2015, 07:39:25 PM »
Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things?
If I showed you my Amazon wish listS (yes, I have several) you'd probably facepunch me right-TF outta here.
And I've cut them down significantly since finding MMM.
I am not a cog. I am an organizational lubricant.

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #624 on: November 18, 2015, 09:20:44 PM »
DH will use the excuse "The wife won't let me" if he doesn't want to do something which kind of irks me but I understand he's trying to not hurt other's feelings
If this only irks you, I consider you a saint.  I LOATHE "the wife won't let me" line.

Every once in a while I get the "can I do this?" phone call.  To which the response is something like this, "You are an adult and you can make your own decisions.  In the 15+ years we have been together have I ever told you you CAN'T do something?  No.  Then why are you asking?"

Spoiler: He is asking because he thinks it is a bad idea. 

So the next few lines are:  "If YOU think it is a bad idea, and YOU don't want to do it, then have the balls to say so.  I am not giving you prior approvable to make what you think is a bad decision, and I refuse to be painted as the bad guy.  This one's on you."


My husband tried this once. He travels for work (approx. 90 flights across 40 trips this year). He was getting a bit burnt out in August and when he was offered a trip to Japan he told his boss that I wanted him to spend more time at home.

I said no such thing. I have never asked him to turn down a trip, I have attended all manner of dinner parties and weddings by myself while he has been away, and I pride myself on being a supportive wife who objects to nothing more than the number of phone chargers he leaves in hotel rooms.

He considers it a sign of weakness to take days off (he's taken two sick days in three years, and has nine weeks of annual leave owing), and a sign of weakness to turn down trips. So he blamed me.

I was uncomfortable with being labelled something I'm not, and even more uncomfortable by his idea that he can't vocalise his own reservations when managing his workload.

mustachepungoeshere

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1342
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #625 on: November 18, 2015, 09:28:14 PM »
Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things?
If I showed you my Amazon wish listS (yes, I have several) you'd probably facepunch me right-TF outta here.
And I've cut them down significantly since finding MMM.

I tend to convince myself I don't need things.

I posted elsewhere that I want a door mat for Christmas. My husband told the boys he works with. They all voted and decided I should just buy a door mat, that it's not good enough or expensive enough for a Christmas present.

But if it comes down to me buying it, well, we've lived there four years and survived without it, so I can keep waiting.

Astatine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Location: Australia
  • Blah. Blah blah blah.
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #626 on: November 18, 2015, 09:48:04 PM »
Posting to follow.

Silverwood

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #627 on: November 18, 2015, 10:12:36 PM »
Am I the only one with a decent-sized mental list of these things?
If I showed you my Amazon wish listS (yes, I have several) you'd probably facepunch me right-TF outta here.
And I've cut them down significantly since finding MMM.

I tend to convince myself I don't need things.

I posted elsewhere that I want a door mat for Christmas. My husband told the boys he works with. They all voted and decided I should just buy a door mat, that it's not good enough or expensive enough for a Christmas present.

But if it comes down to me buying it, well, we've lived there four years and survived without it, so I can keep waiting.

Haha  I think I saw this. You were going to upgrade to the expensive jute rug?  To me those are the things that destroy my budget, and so make the best gifts.


Also my amazon wish list is compiled mostly  of things I think are cool  but will rarely  buy. Also helps me remember what books to borrow from the library.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 10:14:55 PM by Silverwood »

Zamboni

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1657
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #628 on: November 19, 2015, 05:54:21 AM »
Yeah, the company was really successful when my husband's grandfather was alive. He was the true salesman. My FIL refuses to speak to customers and won't hire a service manager or someone to handle issues. He has two part-time secretaries (so he doesn't have to give anybody benefits), but he has them work 11 to 4, so no one answers the phone from 7 a.m. until the secretaries get in at 11:00.

I totally get that it's hard to go from a life of luxury to living a bit more frugally, but SW is totally ridiculous and my FIL doesn't have the courage to say anything about it. At this point, I think it's probably an emotionally abusive relationship, except she's the abuser (when they met, he was almost 50, and she was only in her mid-20s; she's just 10 years older than my husband).

Ouch! Although your FIL is clearly a selfish dick for refusing to pay is son even $8 an hour, and he obviously had the bad judgement to marry a gold digger trophy wife (does she work?), but I actually feel slightly sorry for him now. Mind you, just slightly.

My Dad went through a similar thing with a much younger second wife who clearly was after money, which he didn't have, but she was fooled by some of his spendypants ways (she wasn't the brightest bulb.) I was old enough to see what was happening through a more adult lens, but the way it went down pretty much destroyed the relationship between my Dad and younger brother.

Dad and gold digger SW got together right after he had inherited about $50K, which he promptly blew on trips and fancy shit for her including a hasty big wedding rather than paying off his gigantic pile of credit card debt. When she finally figured out there wasn't actually any money, and that is fact there was less than money, she started treating him really, really badly. It was hard on my Dad. He was duped into thinking she loved him, but everyone on the outside could see that she loved the "good life" and he just seemed like a means to that. Eventually, after much abuse, he moved out and left her with their new house, which she still owns. I'm not sure how long he kept paying the mortgage as it's not really my business.

Anyway, Dad is now in his 70's and totally broke. He has a 3rd wife now who is just a much better person, so he seems happy. By his own admission, he will never be able to stop working.

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #629 on: November 19, 2015, 06:50:27 AM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

I bought my college daughter a Kia and actually had a very good response to warranty issues- they replaced the entire exhaust system at 55,000 miles- no charge.  However, it "up and died" in the 90,000 mile range so I don't expect Toyota or Honda longevity to 200K.  Al in all a "square and fair" deal for a $13,000 car that served its purpose.


 I don't know. I might've agreed with you before I bought a 2003 Kia Rio with nearly a hundred thousand miles on it (for $1200, the trade-in value, because I bought it from my parents) and put another 140 thousand miles on it. Thinking of retiring it now,  but I've been really pleasantly surprised.
The thing with Hyundai/kia is that the quality is really hit-and-miss. You either get a 300k mile car or it dies before you hit 6 digits. With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 06:57:38 AM by JordanOfGilead »

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #630 on: November 19, 2015, 07:05:16 AM »
I had been feeling so smug about my organised, low-key Christmas. Too soon, apparently.

For a couple of years my MiL has talked about needing to cut back on gifts at Christmas. We were very encouraging, they need to be saving for retirement and we've been getting out of debt.

So last December we settled on a bottle swap - they buy us our favourite spirits, we buy them champagne, easy.

Then they bought us spirits AND $300 Bluetooth speakers.

After Christmas my MiL raved about the 'minimal' Christmas, and said she wanted to go even smaller next year. Yes! A couple of months ago I reminded her of the bottle swap and we agreed on it.

Last night she called my husband and said she needed ideas for gifts.

My husband reminded her of the bottle swap, she said she has to buy us more than that, but doesn't want to buy us anything we don't want (apparently I talk about decluttering so much I've put the fear of God into people who try to buy me gifts).

We don't have ideas. We don't need stuff.

As mentioned above, I could probably name one or two slightly indulgent things, but I am reluctant to do that without a price guide. (They talk about cutting back, then spend hundreds on us, and recently inherited six figures and have been a bit spendy so I don't even have a ballpark.)

Ask for a hug?
I tried asking for time together as my gift, but since we have a family dinner every Sunday, that didn't really fly as a "gift" in my mom's eyes. I told her that if she insisted on spending money, I could really use some new button-up shirts for work. (I have 5 that I bought on sale when I got the job and have worn the same 5 every week for 3 months now).
It's something that I feel would help to further my career by improving my image at work, but not something I'm willing to spend on since I generally hate spending money on clothes.
She knows my size and has a lot more patience for thrift store hunting than I do.
Last year I asked for socks.
TL;DR - For relatives that don't understand why you don't want to spend money on them, practical and useful items are always good.

MsChewieBear

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #631 on: November 19, 2015, 07:37:32 AM »


Ouch! Although your FIL is clearly a selfish dick for refusing to pay is son even $8 an hour, and he obviously had the bad judgement to marry a gold digger trophy wife (does she work?), but I actually feel slightly sorry for him now. Mind you, just slightly.


[/quote]

I agree with you. I really do feel bad for him. My husband's mother took the man for everything they had in their divorce, so even though he's not happy, he's said that he'll never divorce his second wife because he "just can't go through that again." I also don't think people who run family businesses should automatically pay their kids a ton of money, but $8 per hour is ridiculous, especially since it was the same rate for four years. He would never even give his son a nickel-an-hour raise, but he'd pay his wife $15 per hour and let her put down as many hours as she wanted on her time card.

MsChewieBear

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #632 on: November 19, 2015, 07:43:41 AM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

I bought my college daughter a Kia and actually had a very good response to warranty issues- they replaced the entire exhaust system at 55,000 miles- no charge.  However, it "up and died" in the 90,000 mile range so I don't expect Toyota or Honda longevity to 200K.  Al in all a "square and fair" deal for a $13,000 car that served its purpose.


 I don't know. I might've agreed with you before I bought a 2003 Kia Rio with nearly a hundred thousand miles on it (for $1200, the trade-in value, because I bought it from my parents) and put another 140 thousand miles on it. Thinking of retiring it now,  but I've been really pleasantly surprised.
The thing with Hyundai/kia is that the quality is really hit-and-miss. You either get a 300k mile car or it dies before you hit 6 digits. With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.

We have a Hyundai Sonata, and I am hoping we are in the first group! I'm not too sure, though. There have been a couple of recalls on it, and we had to have the master relay switch replaced within a year of buying the car. The transmission temperature sensor also went bad last year, but I am wondering if that was related to one of the recalls. We've had it since June 2011 and still have fewer than 50K miles on it, so I'm hoping to drive it as little as possible and stretch its lifespan.

Reader

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #633 on: November 19, 2015, 09:01:05 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3221
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #634 on: November 19, 2015, 09:05:41 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..

My Camry just hit 145k. I need to rotate the tires, that will likely help put it off its current midlife crisis.

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #635 on: November 19, 2015, 09:12:21 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.

Pooperman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
  • Age: 27
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #636 on: November 19, 2015, 09:24:18 AM »
My cousin (age 20) just got married a couple of weeks ago. My grandparents are building/gifting them a small home on their property as a wedding gift. (Whatever. It's their money. I think it robs them of growing experience as a couple, but they can do what they want.) Anyway, the new bride just posted on facebook that she bought a "gently used" 2015 Kia for $14,000.

My husband used to own a business that worked closely with car lots. His experience with Kias hasn't been great. Brand new cars will need something repaired/replaced within 6 months. I'm assuming that's what happened to this "gently used" 2015 car. It just breaks my heart that they took out a $14k loan for a money-suck.

Kia's are not as bad as they used to be; I wouldn't even call them bad anymore. Aside from that, a 2015 will still have a LOT of warranty left.

I bought my college daughter a Kia and actually had a very good response to warranty issues- they replaced the entire exhaust system at 55,000 miles- no charge.  However, it "up and died" in the 90,000 mile range so I don't expect Toyota or Honda longevity to 200K.  Al in all a "square and fair" deal for a $13,000 car that served its purpose.


 I don't know. I might've agreed with you before I bought a 2003 Kia Rio with nearly a hundred thousand miles on it (for $1200, the trade-in value, because I bought it from my parents) and put another 140 thousand miles on it. Thinking of retiring it now,  but I've been really pleasantly surprised.
The thing with Hyundai/kia is that the quality is really hit-and-miss. You either get a 300k mile car or it dies before you hit 6 digits. With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.

We have a Hyundai Sonata, and I am hoping we are in the first group! I'm not too sure, though. There have been a couple of recalls on it, and we had to have the master relay switch replaced within a year of buying the car. The transmission temperature sensor also went bad last year, but I am wondering if that was related to one of the recalls. We've had it since June 2011 and still have fewer than 50K miles on it, so I'm hoping to drive it as little as possible and stretch its lifespan.

Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).

Joggernot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 507
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Gulf Coast, TX
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #637 on: November 19, 2015, 10:34:56 AM »
Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).
I have a 2000 Honda Accord V6.  Recall at 2 weeks to get a new transmission.  Regular maintenance (oil, timing belt, etc.) kept it going to 200k miles.  At 200k I had to get a new transmission.  Shortly after I needed a new alternator. At 250k I needed new rear bearings.  At 260k a couple injectors clogged up and were replaced.  At 268k I needed a new starter.  Overall cost hasn't been too much as the car is still our main vehicle because it is comfortable and runs very well.  My next big cost will be replacing the rotors and possibly the front bearings.  All else is good (knock on wood).

I sold my last Accord (a 1982) at just over 200k miles and it was still running very good.

HairyUpperLip

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 875
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #638 on: November 19, 2015, 10:55:05 AM »
Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).
I have a 2000 Honda Accord V6.  Recall at 2 weeks to get a new transmission.  Regular maintenance (oil, timing belt, etc.) kept it going to 200k miles.  At 200k I had to get a new transmission.  Shortly after I needed a new alternator. At 250k I needed new rear bearings.  At 260k a couple injectors clogged up and were replaced.  At 268k I needed a new starter.  Overall cost hasn't been too much as the car is still our main vehicle because it is comfortable and runs very well.  My next big cost will be replacing the rotors and possibly the front bearings.  All else is good (knock on wood).

I sold my last Accord (a 1982) at just over 200k miles and it was still running very good.

This is honestly very easy. You can definitely save some money here and do this yourself. Cheapo rotors are pretty cheap. :)

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #639 on: November 19, 2015, 11:00:25 AM »
Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).
I have a 2000 Honda Accord V6.  Recall at 2 weeks to get a new transmission.  Regular maintenance (oil, timing belt, etc.) kept it going to 200k miles.  At 200k I had to get a new transmission.  Shortly after I needed a new alternator. At 250k I needed new rear bearings.  At 260k a couple injectors clogged up and were replaced.  At 268k I needed a new starter.  Overall cost hasn't been too much as the car is still our main vehicle because it is comfortable and runs very well.  My next big cost will be replacing the rotors and possibly the front bearings.  All else is good (knock on wood).

I sold my last Accord (a 1982) at just over 200k miles and it was still running very good.

This is honestly very easy. You can definitely save some money here and do this yourself. Cheapo rotors are pretty cheap. :)
That's impressive. My cavalier I had in college went through 3 starters before it hit 150,000 miles.

Joggernot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 507
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Gulf Coast, TX
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #640 on: November 19, 2015, 11:14:33 AM »
Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).
I have a 2000 Honda Accord V6.  Recall at 2 weeks to get a new transmission.  Regular maintenance (oil, timing belt, etc.) kept it going to 200k miles.  At 200k I had to get a new transmission.  Shortly after I needed a new alternator. At 250k I needed new rear bearings.  At 260k a couple injectors clogged up and were replaced.  At 268k I needed a new starter.  Overall cost hasn't been too much as the car is still our main vehicle because it is comfortable and runs very well.  My next big cost will be replacing the rotors and possibly the front bearings.  All else is good (knock on wood).

I sold my last Accord (a 1982) at just over 200k miles and it was still running very good.

This is honestly very easy. You can definitely save some money here and do this yourself. Cheapo rotors are pretty cheap. :)
In the past I'd do it myself.  Today I'm handicapped and can't get on the ground to do the work (unless I'm lying on the ground).  So, I have a good mechanic who'll do the job and not gouge me (not the dealer).

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4158
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #641 on: November 19, 2015, 11:17:46 AM »
"He's so stingy. When they got married, he wouldn't even let her buy magazines!"

OMG I HATE the "let" language about money. It absolutely undermines everything about shared budgets and responsibilities. And also it implies that it's one person's money tocontrol. Which I guess might be the case in some (rare) circumstances, but generally speaking, that is such bs.

Maybe I've got a more visceral reaction to this language than most: my grandmother was a stay-at-home mom (like most women of her generation...) and she genuinely had to justify to my grandfather why she wanted a new lipstick (whereas his woodworking tools for hobby use were obviously not for anyone else to question). I was really young when I swore that I would never be in a situation where I had to ask for permission for minor expenses. (And I've always earned at least 50% more than anyone I dated, so... guess that stuck with me.)
I hate the word "let" in reference to spouses in general. My wife likes to change her hair color every few weeks and has a Mohawk. People tell me they can't believe I "let" her do that. Excuse me? She is her own person. She can do whatever makes her happy with or without my permission.

OMG. This. I occasionally ask my husband's opinion about something ("does this sweater look good?", or "do you care if I shave my legs in winter?" - to answers of "your other one looks better" and "I have tits in my face, why would I care", respectively) but I can guarantee that if he said anything along the lines of "don't cut your hair, I don't want you to" my FIRST phone call would be to a hairdresser. Or to whichever friend I know with a buzzcut and the means to maintain it.

Lol, I'm not the only one! My supervisor says her husband freaks out every time she cuts her hair ("Women should have long hair!")...I can't even tell the difference when she does. Granted, she's in the older generation, her daughter is a couple years older than me, but I'd be running for a buzz cut if my DH tried to dictate how long my hair should be.
I chopped about eight inches off earlier this year, ended up chin to shoulder length area and I couldn't even get my DH to tell me which way he preferred, he really just doesn't care. Interestingly I still have the second longest hair out of seven women in my office.

DH will use the excuse "The wife won't let me" if he doesn't want to do something which kind of irks me but I understand he's trying to not hurt other's feelings
Ha. Within a week of my (ex) BF telling me he loved my hair long (like his ex-GF), I got it chopped.

mm1970

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4158
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #642 on: November 19, 2015, 11:30:39 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.
Only 200k for my 2006 Matrix?  Dang, it will be EOL when my 9 year old starts college. I was hoping he could take it with him (depending on where he goes)

JordanOfGilead

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 342
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #643 on: November 19, 2015, 11:38:19 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.
Only 200k for my 2006 Matrix?  Dang, it will be EOL when my 9 year old starts college. I was hoping he could take it with him (depending on where he goes)
I've owned a lot of Hondas, so I have followed their product development and consumer reports a lot more closely than Toyota. Honda has gone down in reliability ratings the last few years, but Toyota is still holding steady near the top of the list in pretty much every publication I follow. I wouldn't be surprised if an 06 Toyota goes beyond 200k without problems.

mtn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1148
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #644 on: November 19, 2015, 11:39:07 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.
Only 200k for my 2006 Matrix?  Dang, it will be EOL when my 9 year old starts college. I was hoping he could take it with him (depending on where he goes)

At 200k, you'll probably be looking at a timing belt (should be about the 3rd or 4th time with that one), possibly brakes (I'd be looking hard at the lines themselves), fuel filter, fuel pump, spark plugs, coolant hoses, axle boots, etc. Most of these things would just be looked at. The timing belt and fuel filter I'd change just because. I'd also do a coolant flush, probably transmission fluid flush, etc. A lot of these things might have been done in just regular maintenance anyways.

Then continue to drive it and hate it for another 200k miles.

(I married into a 2004 Corolla which is sort of the sedan version of the matrix. I hate the thing, but I'll be damned if it isn't super reliable).

EDIT: Would also be having the alignment done, but that should be checked more often than 200k anyways (which can be done by noticing odd handling or odd tire wear)

spascarella

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #645 on: November 19, 2015, 01:36:34 PM »

Yeah, I've got a 2006 Sonata. It scares the shit out of me with the way it sounds as compared with the Honda I had before. It's pushing 50k miles now, so we'll see how far it goes. Here's hoping 200k (another 10-20 years).

I also have a 2006 Sonata approaching 150k and it's been a dream car.  My ex brother-in-law services it for me in exchange for computer work.  Haven't had one problem with it in 9 1/2 years other than getting smashed in a parking lot by a lady who luckily left me a note and then paid cash for it to be fixed at the most expensive repair shop in town.

Reader

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #646 on: November 19, 2015, 03:32:25 PM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.
oops. mine is 2008, so i guess lots of care needed to get to 200k

Lian

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #647 on: November 19, 2015, 09:18:43 PM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.

Wow - that's good to know. My 2003 Civic is almost at 80k, and I do follow the maintenance schedule. Think I'll stop eyeing newer models, and see if I can make it to 300k.

Pooperman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
  • Age: 27
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #648 on: November 20, 2015, 05:32:32 AM »
With Honda and Toyota, there is a lot more consistency and their cars will generally last to 200k with a lower level of maintenance than most other brands, almost guaranteed.
Nice. My Honda's at 100k and i was wondering how much longer it will last..
It really depends on the year. The newer Hondas won't go the same miles as the 90s and early 2000s models. They've had to cut corners with their build quality to keep up with market fluctuations. I feel confident in saying that anything built before 2005 can hit 300k if you follow the maintenance schedule to a T (including belt, bearing, and gasket replacements), but after that they started to go downhill. 200,000 is still reasonable, but it takes a little nurturing to get it there.

Wow - that's good to know. My 2003 Civic is almost at 80k, and I do follow the maintenance schedule. Think I'll stop eyeing newer models, and see if I can make it to 300k.

Looks like you'll hit 300k miles in the 2050s. Can anyone say 'classic'?

gliderpilot567

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 171
  • Location: US
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #649 on: November 20, 2015, 10:25:53 AM »
I love my parents, but my father especially indoctrinated me with HORRIBLE anti-mustachian money advice, probably since he didn't know any better. He finally retired for real last year at age 72, after getting a military pension since age 42 and working ever since then in various full time jobs, some with horrible commutes. I feel bad for him now.

Here are some of the stupid things that my parents taught me about money.

- Debt is good, especially mortgage debt, because you can write the interest off your taxes. Buy the biggest house you can, at the longest mortgage term you can find, make the smallest down payment possible.
- Never, ever rent a place to live. ALWAYS buy.
- Debt is good because it helps you build credit.
- Only get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. The other terms are bad, and an ARM is ALWAYS a bad idea.
- After you have paid in sufficient equity on your house, take it back out and remodel said house. This way you can also start paying more interest again and get that tax break.
- Buy a new car because used cars are ALWAYS unreliable and will leave you broken down stranded. (To their credit, they have kept all of the new cars they've bought forever, and ran them into the dirt, so they have bought few cars over the years).
- Just go in to the dealer and don't worry about having to haggle or negotiate, they will cut you an honest deal and won't bamboozle you.
- Buy a car for the statement it makes about you, so buy something new, well equipped, and expensive so that people take you seriously (I almost bought a $60k Corvette in my first year out of college because of this.... damn! I still ended up buying a stupid 35k truck though).
- Never, ever pay cash for anything. Use a credit card for everything (at least he taught me to pay it off in full each month.... but this still does not prevent you from overspending on it in the first place)
- Don't get carried away investing, it's too risky. Your uncle lost everything in the stock market. (Said uncle has been living retired in Thailand for about 10 years now)

Looking back on all this I alternately shake my head and bang it against my desk. I did SO MUCH stupid stuff because of these teachings and examples.